Can Magblade Stay Fun Please?

WrathOfInnos · August 2018

Here’s another idea, leave the long duration expedition on the Debilitate morph. Then we can at least choose between utility and damage. Maybe both morphs would finally see some use.

I just think that spontaneous changes in movement speed are going to be awful during mechanics like kiting Storm of the Heavens in vAS.

Pijng · August 2018

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Here’s another idea, leave the long duration expedition on the Debilitate morph. Then we can at least choose between utility and damage. Maybe both morphs would finally see some use.

I just think that spontaneous changes in movement speed are going to be awful during mechanics like kiting Storm of the Heavens in vAS.

Oh wow, I really like this one.

NyassaV · August 2018

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

I have no trouble sustaining Strife with 1.3~1.6k regen.

Cripple's Major Expedition change was really random.

Cloak, I don't think really needs snare purge with recent changes and how it works as a defensive skill.

It's not that there is an issue with sustaining strife. It's that that particular change is problematic in a thematic way as well as limited set choices. But we all have to wear impreg now anyways so w/e

thankyourat · August 2018

The only thing I don't like about magblades in the current patch is that it's starting to play like a mag sorc again. To where I've dropped Cloak completely and just use a big damage shield. I would like to play a light armor build that's not reliant on annulment so I can use Cloak as my main form of defense without gutting my damage completely.

Another problem is that heavy armor magblade doesn't work this patch without proc sets. If you use things like sload and skoria it's still pretty strong but if you don't have fun using proc sets your options for a viable build are limited.

NyassaV · August 2018

thankyourat wrote: »

The only thing I don't like about magblades in the current patch is that it's starting to play like a mag sorc again. To where I've dropped Cloak completely and just use a big damage shield. I would like to play a light armor build that's not reliant on annulment so I can use Cloak as my main form of defense without gutting my damage completely.

Another problem is that heavy armor magblade doesn't work this patch without proc sets. If you use things like sload and skoria it's still pretty strong but if you don't have fun using proc sets your options for a viable build are limited.

Impreg + Light

But yeah you aren't wrong

Jeezye · August 2018

NyassaV wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

The only thing I don't like about magblades in the current patch is that it's starting to play like a mag sorc again. To where I've dropped Cloak completely and just use a big damage shield. I would like to play a light armor build that's not reliant on annulment so I can use Cloak as my main form of defense without gutting my damage completely.

Another problem is that heavy armor magblade doesn't work this patch without proc sets. If you use things like sload and skoria it's still pretty strong but if you don't have fun using proc sets your options for a viable build are limited.

Impreg + Light

But yeah you aren't wrong

Why do you think impreg is so potent? Especially with so many proc sets out there and low crit in CP I feel resistances/protection/maim are way better defensive stats

Chilly-McFreeze · August 2018

Jeezye wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

The only thing I don't like about magblades in the current patch is that it's starting to play like a mag sorc again. To where I've dropped Cloak completely and just use a big damage shield. I would like to play a light armor build that's not reliant on annulment so I can use Cloak as my main form of defense without gutting my damage completely.

Another problem is that heavy armor magblade doesn't work this patch without proc sets. If you use things like sload and skoria it's still pretty strong but if you don't have fun using proc sets your options for a viable build are limited.

Impreg + Light

But yeah you aren't wrong

Why do you think impreg is so potent? Especially with so many proc sets out there and low crit in CP I feel resistances/protection/maim are way better defensive stats

BC crits are the most common source of burst. 50-90% more damage is not to underestimate, and reducing these to 0-40% goes a long way. Besides the 2-4p boni are not terribly bad. But yes, it does nothing to procs but it's not like procs are the only damage source.

Jeezye wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Guys this thread is about magblade's playstyle not getting boring. OP didn't ask for any specific buffs whatsoever, he just claimed that the class itsself is getting reduced in mechanics from patch to patch, which cute the possibility for individuals builds and playstyles.

No one is claiming that magblades aren't competitive at their current state, but this only applie to magblade which either carry their burst/gank playstyle with unbalanced procsets or magblades that play destro/resto.

has anyone of you seriously tried to play a nightblade build without shieldstacking/ permacloaking? It is near to impossible to achieve the tankiness the class provided a few patches ago and everyone is forced to play the same playstyle to be competitive.

@Jeezye Actually yes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RFAA2WCbB4
That was my first night with the build. With more refinement, practice, maybe a strong DPS partner, cloak and shields really aren't necessary.

I don't really get your point here. All you do in your video is run away from 3 players and tank out the limited damage they can put into you while you LOS them. Try fighting a 5+ group that actually hammers on you and you'll find yourself dead really quick.

I spent the greater time since morrowind trying to figure out decent (mag)blade builds that come close to the saptank playstyle, but there is no feasible way so far to incorporate tankyness into a build that can still kill players without shields or cloak

I think we got different views of what should be achieveable. Facetanking 5 competent players without LoS seems like a bit too much to ask for anything that isn't a complete tank setup. And even then it's questionable.

NyassaV · August 2018

Wow I just played Stamplar for the first time since Morrowind and wow Magblade is so weak it's depressing. @ZOS_Wrobel

Feanor · August 2018

NyassaV wrote: »

Wow I just played Stamplar for the first time since Morrowind and wow Magblade is so weak it's depressing. @ZOS_Wrobel

For a moment I overlooked the bolded word and thought “yeah, Stamplar could need a buff”. Then I realized you seriously think magNB needs buffs.

Mayrael · August 2018

Feanor wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Wow I just played Stamplar for the first time since Morrowind and wow Magblade is so weak it's depressing. @ZOS_Wrobel

For a moment I overlooked the bolded word and thought “yeah, Stamplar could need a buff”. Then I realized you seriously think magNB needs buffs.

God forbid. Stamplars hit already like a Mac truck with just their jab jab jab.

Actually about magblades I think that they are in pretty good spot, what needs adjustments is heavy armored builds with lots of damage. You shouldn't be able to have both as it is now.

It's pretty frustrating when you as a light/medium armor user set up for offense and a bit sustain you spam your best skills for about 30s, while dodging, cloaking, shielding like a madman and you see that your target hp bar slowly goes down, then suddenly he successfully crit charges you into DBOS and you're in execute range in less than 2s #BalanceMyA**.

Stamina at least have bleeds, but magicka?

Feanor · August 2018

@Mayrael

Jabs are buggy as hell and don’t hit if your target moves just a tiny bit. Also if you’re weaving LA/HA Jabs fail spectacularly often.

Mayrael · August 2018

Feanor wrote: »

@Mayrael

Jabs are buggy as hell and don’t hit if your target moves just a tiny bit. Also if you’re weaving LA/HA Jabs fail spectacularly often.

Truth on that, I know it from my own experience since I have played magplar for a very long time, sweeps are the same, especially in lagged environment every channeled skill becames cluncky as hell. Nevertheless this skill is extremely powerful when you know how to hold your prey properly

NyassaV · August 2018

Feanor wrote: »

@Mayrael

Jabs are buggy as hell and don’t hit if your target moves just a tiny bit. Also if you’re weaving LA/HA Jabs fail spectacularly often.

I'm not having any problems at all

NyassaV · August 2018

Feanor wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Wow I just played Stamplar for the first time since Morrowind and wow Magblade is so weak it's depressing. @ZOS_Wrobel

For a moment I overlooked the bolded word and thought “yeah, Stamplar could need a buff”. Then I realized you seriously think magNB needs buffs.

I used to think the same legit. But yeah it needs something and that something doesn't need to affect PvE much but OMG.

Either I'm better at this game than I give myself credit for or anything stamina needs a lot of adjustments for real

ak_pvp · August 2018

thankyourat wrote: »

The only thing I don't like about magblades in the current patch is that it's starting to play like a mag sorc again. To where I've dropped Cloak completely and just use a big damage shield. I would like to play a light armor build that's not reliant on annulment so I can use Cloak as my main form of defense without gutting my damage completely.

Another problem is that heavy armor magblade doesn't work this patch without proc sets. If you use things like sload and skoria it's still pretty strong but if you don't have fun using proc sets your options for a viable build are limited.

Sloads is fixed next patch so it cloak will be just as good as before.

Mayrael wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Wow I just played Stamplar for the first time since Morrowind and wow Magblade is so weak it's depressing. @ZOS_Wrobel

For a moment I overlooked the bolded word and thought “yeah, Stamplar could need a buff”. Then I realized you seriously think magNB needs buffs.

What needs adjustments is heavy armored builds with lots of damage. You shouldn't be able to have both as it is now.

Couldn't disagree more. Heavy already loses a lot of damage, and has to rely on sets like fury and the meta is shifting even more towards medium. Mag builds in heavy are even worse becasuse lower sustain because no heavy weaves, and lower damage because no light weaves/fury style sets.

Not to mention heavy tanky is just a method of defense, not unlike cloak or shields, if you want one to have no damage, you should want all of them to have no damage.

thankyourat · August 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

The only thing I don't like about magblades in the current patch is that it's starting to play like a mag sorc again. To where I've dropped Cloak completely and just use a big damage shield. I would like to play a light armor build that's not reliant on annulment so I can use Cloak as my main form of defense without gutting my damage completely.

Another problem is that heavy armor magblade doesn't work this patch without proc sets. If you use things like sload and skoria it's still pretty strong but if you don't have fun using proc sets your options for a viable build are limited.

Sloads is fixed next patch so it cloak will be just as good as before.

Mayrael wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Wow I just played Stamplar for the first time since Morrowind and wow Magblade is so weak it's depressing. @ZOS_Wrobel

For a moment I overlooked the bolded word and thought “yeah, Stamplar could need a buff”. Then I realized you seriously think magNB needs buffs.

What needs adjustments is heavy armored builds with lots of damage. You shouldn't be able to have both as it is now.

Couldn't disagree more. Heavy already loses a lot of damage, and has to rely on sets like fury and the meta is shifting even more towards medium. Mag builds in heavy are even worse becasuse lower sustain because no heavy weaves, and lower damage because no light weaves/fury style sets.

Not to mention heavy tanky is just a method of defense, not unlike cloak or shields, if you want one to have no damage, you should want all of them to have no damage.

It's not sloads that makes Cloak weak on magblade. It's the combination of snares, the fact that it slows down your tempo, and the fact that it's a redundant ability. If you are snared and attempt to cloak you won't be able to successfully reposition because you will be pulled from stealth because of your reduced movement speed locking you in place. If you decide to teleport to your shade there is no reason to cloak because you already repositioned. Annulment is a flat out better defensive ability because it allows you to take a hit as well as allowing you to stay offensive and have defenses up at the same time. Cloak is only beneficial as a flat out escape tool on magblade meaning it can be a quality of life ability to help avoid being zerged down, but it's not very useful once combat starts.

Cloak can see some use on melee FM builds but your are basically going to have to use proc sets to get the burst needed to make up for the lack of pressure from using Cloak as a defense and concealed as a spammable. This in term makes you squishy as well as lowering your base damage because you need to build for Cloak which will make your sustain horrible that's the reason why most meleeblades run 2400+ regen. Cloak more and more is becoming a stamblade ability

NyassaV · August 2018

https://youtu.be/cueStvNqy94

This is the event that really kinda changed my mind. I cannot do this at all on a magblade. Both my suitability and damage would be less.

Magic skills are more expensive so one would hope they are more potent in most ways right? Even if I did this on 2H magblade I'd very quickly run into stam sustain issues and 2H heavy attacks are slow and clunky unlike DW. However if I ran dual weild I'd immediately run into snare issues.

Oh and Cripple speed uptime is getting nerfed for little to no reason so not like I can even remotely say magblade could preform that well in the future even IF it could this patch. At the end of the day I've stopped caring about PvE especially because of vAS. vAS is one of the things that makes magblade so appealing so it's sorta being nerfed because of poor trial design. I love the trial but the design was poor overall. Believe it or not it actually makes a lot of sense for magblade to parse the highest espcially with the light attack buff. So instead adjust damage values of ALL classes rather then screw with everyone's mechanics

Chilly-McFreeze · August 2018

Personally I'd like to see more snare removal options from class skills. Wings is a good start but every class should have at least one option to get rid of these pesky things.

Jeezye · August 2018

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Personally I'd like to see more snare removal options from class skills. Wings is a good start but every class should have at least one option to get rid of these pesky things.

Tbh with the amount of movementspeed buffs in the game snares are essential to counteract these buffs, just like mending/defile, breach/Ward etc. Giving snare immunity and wide access to expedition makes every build a super mobile kite build

Pijng · August 2018

NyassaV wrote: »

https://youtu.be/cueStvNqy94

This is the event that really kinda changed my mind. I cannot do this at all on a magblade. Both my suitability and damage would be less.

Magic skills are more expensive so one would hope they are more potent in most ways right? Even if I did this on 2H magblade I'd very quickly run into stam sustain issues and 2H heavy attacks are slow and clunky unlike DW. However if I ran dual weild I'd immediately run into snare issues.

Oh and Cripple speed uptime is getting nerfed for little to no reason so not like I can even remotely say magblade could preform that well in the future even IF it could this patch. At the end of the day I've stopped caring about PvE especially because of vAS. vAS is one of the things that makes magblade so appealing so it's sorta being nerfed because of poor trial design. I love the trial but the design was poor overall. Believe it or not it actually makes a lot of sense for magblade to parse the highest espcially with the light attack buff. So instead adjust damage values of ALL classes rather then screw with everyone's mechanics

Your opponents in this vid look like a potatoes

Chilly-McFreeze · August 2018

Jeezye wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Personally I'd like to see more snare removal options from class skills. Wings is a good start but every class should have at least one option to get rid of these pesky things.

Tbh with the amount of movementspeed buffs in the game snares are essential to counteract these buffs, just like mending/defile, breach/Ward etc. Giving snare immunity and wide access to expedition makes every build a super mobile kite build

If you tie it to something that isn't exactly spammable then not. Sure, if you but it on, say, Sorc's Ward or Cloak it wouldn't make sense. But e.g. on Ball of Lightning/streak (steep cost increase) or Hurricane (sacrifice the damage increase to stay mobile) then not necessary. But yes, I get what you mean. They would have to be very careful, however I don't see that happen anyway.

KingJ · August 2018

Bam_Bam wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

It's not even about nightblades. It's sad that with every update they keep removing additional effects from abilities from all classes. They never add anything new to them, just removing over and over.

Because they don't know what else to do. Desperately short of both knowledge and in-game experience.

If devs don't actually play the class they should be barred from making permanent changes to it.

If that's the case they can't change any class.

arkansas_ESO · August 2018

brandonv516 wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Guys this thread is about magblade's playstyle not getting boring. OP didn't ask for any specific buffs whatsoever, he just claimed that the class itsself is getting reduced in mechanics from patch to patch, which cute the possibility for individuals builds and playstyles.

No one is claiming that magblades aren't competitive at their current state, but this only applie to magblade which either carry their burst/gank playstyle with unbalanced procsets or magblades that play destro/resto.

has anyone of you seriously tried to play a nightblade build without shieldstacking/ permacloaking? It is near to impossible to achieve the tankiness the class provided a few patches ago and everyone is forced to play the same playstyle to be competitive.

@Jeezye Actually yes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RFAA2WCbB4
That was my first night with the build. With more refinement, practice, maybe a strong DPS partner, cloak and shields really aren't necessary.

You...literally just ran and did absolutely nothing other than kite lol. This isn't a build. This is a meme.

NyassaV · August 2018

Pijng wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

https://youtu.be/cueStvNqy94

This is the event that really kinda changed my mind. I cannot do this at all on a magblade. Both my suitability and damage would be less.

Magic skills are more expensive so one would hope they are more potent in most ways right? Even if I did this on 2H magblade I'd very quickly run into stam sustain issues and 2H heavy attacks are slow and clunky unlike DW. However if I ran dual weild I'd immediately run into snare issues.

Oh and Cripple speed uptime is getting nerfed for little to no reason so not like I can even remotely say magblade could preform that well in the future even IF it could this patch. At the end of the day I've stopped caring about PvE especially because of vAS. vAS is one of the things that makes magblade so appealing so it's sorta being nerfed because of poor trial design. I love the trial but the design was poor overall. Believe it or not it actually makes a lot of sense for magblade to parse the highest espcially with the light attack buff. So instead adjust damage values of ALL classes rather then screw with everyone's mechanics

Your opponents in this vid look like a potatoes

There were a few yeah but also keep in mind potatoes can still do damage thanks to stupid stuff like snipe

NyassaV · August 2018

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Personally I'd like to see more snare removal options from class skills. Wings is a good start but every class should have at least one option to get rid of these pesky things.

If DK gets immunity then nightblade should have removal on cloak and sorcs should have removal (maybe immunity) on streak

ak_pvp · August 2018

NyassaV wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Personally I'd like to see more snare removal options from class skills. Wings is a good start but every class should have at least one option to get rid of these pesky things.

If DK gets immunity then nightblade should have removal on cloak and sorcs should have removal (maybe immunity) on streak

OK, give me cloak, shade, and make power lash hit as hard as merciless.

Also, Stamplar stronger than Magblade top kek. Its already top 3 classes next patch when sorc gets boned, honestly what more do you even want.