Can Magblade Stay Fun Please?

NyassaV · August 2018

ZOS has been removing core mechanics of the class in the name of balance and theoretically their ideas are sound. But when put into practice they don't actually do a whole a lot aside from annoy people and make the class less fun to play.

Of course I'm going to mention the Strife change. It hardly affected balance and just made the class less fun and unique just so they could better sell elemental weapon. And I get it as it was a bit too cheap. But the same cost of force pulse is stupid and making it 200 or so less than force pulse would give the skill a semblance of balance while retaining theme.

Just completely remove the snare on Cripple for all I care but halfing the duration of expedition just sucks. It hurts Melee magblade especially which is already in a rough spot. A magblade is supposed to be very mobile and good cripple up-time gave us that. So this just gives the class less flavor and theme!

If DK gets snare remove and immunity on wings can cloak get just removal? And maybe give sorcs just removal on streak? They need something

Even if nothing is actually done or whatever... Hopefully you get my point since it's pretty basic and not hard to understand

Gprime31 · August 2018

Just built a 2h/resto magblade, love it so far, hope they don’t ruin it.

Marabornwingrion · August 2018

It's not even about nightblades. It's sad that with every update they keep removing additional effects from abilities from all classes. They never add anything new to them, just removing over and over.

Jeezye · August 2018

Nightblades, especially magicka, have been by far my favourite class over the last years of ESO. What I loved most about the class is the versatility and build variety you could achieve. By far the most fun playstyle was the old "sap tank" with lots of healing and resources scaling off of the enemies you fight. Clouding Swarm was an amazing synergy with the magblade class over all and was allowing really cool maneuvers while outplaying your enemies.

The class got extremely boring to the point where every magblade slots at LEAST one proc set (caluurion, skoria, zaan) to keep relevant, or they stack max magicka and imitate a shieldstacking sorc. It became really frustrating to figure out unique builds and my once favourite char is getting rustier with every day.

So sad. /nostalgia off

xAk_MoRRoWiNdx · August 2018

This post makes me so sad, Alexa can you bring back Purge cloak?

ak_pvp · August 2018

Revert strife change sure. Was a pointless change to market ele weapon. Cripple mobility too, since it was usable as offense and defense (8s>4s for cripple then run) now its a little more pigeonholed.

However, with the new changes to snares not lasting long and being direct dmg, cloaks basically guarantees immunity whilst in it, but not removal.

Cloak is also 10x more powerful as a defense and escape mitigating nearly all damage via untargetablity, forcemissing whatever was en route, dot supression and invisibility. Not to mention it got a buff vs sloads and det pots. What else do you want on it? Minor expedition, 10 extra bag slots and a cup holder?

IZZEFlameLash · August 2018

I have no trouble sustaining Strife with 1.3~1.6k regen.

Cripple's Major Expedition change was really random.

Cloak, I don't think really needs snare purge with recent changes and how it works as a defensive skill.

WrathOfInnos · August 2018

I have to agree, I do not like the nerf to Cripple’s Major Expedition. I’m fine with halving the snare duration, but constantly alternating between moving fast or slow every 4s is just annoying (assuming it is cast every 8s as it would be in a PvE rotation).

What if instead of poor uptime on Major Expedition it gave full uptime on Minor Expedition (8-10s on cast of Cripple). Average speed would still be reduced if this was the goal, but at least we can control movement consistently.

DeadlyRecluse · August 2018

Purge cloak was more interesting than "dot supression cloak" imo.

It didn't necessarily get you into stealth as consistently, but it made the skill slot actually useful (as a purge) in situations where your cloak was pretty much hard countered anyway (i.e. melee magblade vs stamsorc).

weedgenius · August 2018

Does anyone even know WHY they nerfed the Cripple expedition buff? Like, who asked for that? Who is that supposed to help? What problem is it solving?

Rianai · August 2018

Because the speed buff is tied to the snare landing - and sticking - on a target, not tied to the cast of the skill. I don't like this change either and wish the speed would remain unnerfed (untied from the snare), but as it is, it's just the consequence of how Cripple works right now.

weedgenius · August 2018

Rianai wrote: »

Because the speed buff is tied to the snare landing - and sticking - on a target, not tied to the cast of the skill. I don't like this change either and wish the speed would remain unnerfed (untied from the snare), but as it is, it's just the consequence of how Cripple works right now.

Oh, right, my movement speed is only increased while they’re snared right? And the snare was cut in half? Makes sense

mojomood · August 2018

Magblade in PvP is all about mobility. Not being where they think while you build a burst. The mobility of this class has been surpassed by so many stam builds via swift and sprint cost reduction. Stam sorcs are way more mobile stacking major, minor expedition plus potentially swift jewelry. Magblades are defined by 2 skills, shade and cloak. I would like to see:
1. Snare removal and 2 second immunity added to shade teleport. This makes this a reliable skill to get out of snares.
2. Major expedition added to cloak. That will bring the comparative cloaked speed back in line to what it was.

I don't need more burst, I don't want to live on proc sets, but I do want more mobility.

mb10 · August 2018

Not to mention force pulse doesnt get reflected while strife does...

The heal is PVP isnt exactly great as its every 2 seconds so at this moment, force pulse is legitamately a better option because of the chance of proccing any of the 3 status effects or interrupting if you choose the other morph.

Strife needs a reduce cost OR for it to not be reflectable

Waffennacht · August 2018

mb10 wrote: »

Not to mention force pulse doesnt get reflected while strife does...

The heal is PVP isnt exactly great as its every 2 seconds so at this moment, force pulse is legitamately a better option because of the chance of proccing any of the 3 status effects or interrupting if you choose the other morph.

Strife needs a reduce cost OR for it to not be reflectable

If you spam it you get the heal every sec

yurimodin · August 2018

mb10 wrote: »

Strife needs a reduce cost OR for it to not be reflectable

animation cancelling light attack on my inferno staff with funnel health is my main spammable. I was getting 12k-17k on the precurser dummy IIRC (its been a while)

brandonv516 · August 2018

mb10 wrote: »

Not to mention force pulse doesnt get reflected while strife does...

The heal is PVP isnt exactly great as its every 2 seconds so at this moment, force pulse is legitamately a better option because of the chance of proccing any of the 3 status effects or interrupting if you choose the other morph.

Strife needs a reduce cost OR for it to not be reflectable

Not to mention Force Pulse has 3 separate chances on a single cast to proc Caluurions, Sloads, or anything else that works on direct damage.

ssewallb14_ESO · August 2018

weedgenius wrote: »

Does anyone even know WHY they nerfed the Cripple expedition buff? Like, who asked for that? Who is that supposed to help? What problem is it solving?

They don't balance the game like this. The just compare ability tooltips to others in a vacuum, with 0 knowledge or consideration of how the class actually plays in practice.

They probably thought "dot + long major expedition" was overpowered compared to other skills that offer "effect + a shorter major expedition"

Jeezye · August 2018

Guys this thread is about magblade's playstyle not getting boring. OP didn't ask for any specific buffs whatsoever, he just claimed that the class itsself is getting reduced in mechanics from patch to patch, which cute the possibility for individuals builds and playstyles.

No one is claiming that magblades aren't competitive at their current state, but this only applie to magblade which either carry their burst/gank playstyle with unbalanced procsets or magblades that play destro/resto.

has anyone of you seriously tried to play a nightblade build without shieldstacking/ permacloaking? It is near to impossible to achieve the tankiness the class provided a few patches ago and everyone is forced to play the same playstyle to be competitive.

brandonv516 · August 2018

Jeezye wrote: »

Guys this thread is about magblade's playstyle not getting boring. OP didn't ask for any specific buffs whatsoever, he just claimed that the class itsself is getting reduced in mechanics from patch to patch, which cute the possibility for individuals builds and playstyles.

No one is claiming that magblades aren't competitive at their current state, but this only applie to magblade which either carry their burst/gank playstyle with unbalanced procsets or magblades that play destro/resto.

has anyone of you seriously tried to play a nightblade build without shieldstacking/ permacloaking? It is near to impossible to achieve the tankiness the class provided a few patches ago and everyone is forced to play the same playstyle to be competitive.

@Jeezye Actually yes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RFAA2WCbB4
That was my first night with the build. With more refinement, practice, maybe a strong DPS partner, cloak and shields really aren't necessary.

Pijng · August 2018

"Just completely remove the snare on Cripple"

Uhm no, sorry. If cripple's snare (as other abilities) had to be halved, then it's fine. It's sad that major exp is tight to snare, but I'd never trade cripple's snare.
Also you mentioned a melee magblade. Mobility is nice, but snare from cripple is very essential on such a build. You don't have gap closer after all (ok you have it - lotus fan - but in most builds you just don't need it cause you already have cripple).

Jeezye · August 2018

brandonv516 wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Guys this thread is about magblade's playstyle not getting boring. OP didn't ask for any specific buffs whatsoever, he just claimed that the class itsself is getting reduced in mechanics from patch to patch, which cute the possibility for individuals builds and playstyles.

No one is claiming that magblades aren't competitive at their current state, but this only applie to magblade which either carry their burst/gank playstyle with unbalanced procsets or magblades that play destro/resto.

has anyone of you seriously tried to play a nightblade build without shieldstacking/ permacloaking? It is near to impossible to achieve the tankiness the class provided a few patches ago and everyone is forced to play the same playstyle to be competitive.

@Jeezye Actually yes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RFAA2WCbB4
That was my first night with the build. With more refinement, practice, maybe a strong DPS partner, cloak and shields really aren't necessary.

I don't really get your point here. All you do in your video is run away from 3 players and tank out the limited damage they can put into you while you LOS them. Try fighting a 5+ group that actually hammers on you and you'll find yourself dead really quick.

I spent the greater time since morrowind trying to figure out decent (mag)blade builds that come close to the saptank playstyle, but there is no feasible way so far to incorporate tankyness into a build that can still kill players without shields or cloak

brandonv516 · August 2018

Jeezye wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Guys this thread is about magblade's playstyle not getting boring. OP didn't ask for any specific buffs whatsoever, he just claimed that the class itsself is getting reduced in mechanics from patch to patch, which cute the possibility for individuals builds and playstyles.

No one is claiming that magblades aren't competitive at their current state, but this only applie to magblade which either carry their burst/gank playstyle with unbalanced procsets or magblades that play destro/resto.

has anyone of you seriously tried to play a nightblade build without shieldstacking/ permacloaking? It is near to impossible to achieve the tankiness the class provided a few patches ago and everyone is forced to play the same playstyle to be competitive.

@Jeezye Actually yes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RFAA2WCbB4
That was my first night with the build. With more refinement, practice, maybe a strong DPS partner, cloak and shields really aren't necessary.

I don't really get your point here. All you do in your video is run away from 3 players and tank out the limited damage they can put into you while you LOS them. Try fighting a 5+ group that actually hammers on you and you'll find yourself dead really quick.

I spent the greater time since morrowind trying to figure out decent (mag)blade builds that come close to the saptank playstyle, but there is no feasible way so far to incorporate tankyness into a build that can still kill players without shields or cloak

You suggested that you can't play magblade without shields or cloak (we are forced into a playstyle). I did just that.

It's not meant to take a beating and then turn around and drop everyone down. It's a different style, mobile, good self heals, and super annoying for sure.

Like I said, with more refinement, practice, and even a teammate to work with it's a viable build for small group competition.

I'm not trying to say NB doesn't need more buffs though, bring them on.

RighteousBacon · August 2018

Yes please change cripple so that the expedition is unaffected by the nerf to snares. Magblade was great because of it’s easy access to major expedition. No other mag class has that except magwarden

Lexxypwns · August 2018

Nah, wouldn’t be fair to leave class in a unique state of fun when the others don’t get to be, right?

Jeezye · August 2018

brandonv516 wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Guys this thread is about magblade's playstyle not getting boring. OP didn't ask for any specific buffs whatsoever, he just claimed that the class itsself is getting reduced in mechanics from patch to patch, which cute the possibility for individuals builds and playstyles.

No one is claiming that magblades aren't competitive at their current state, but this only applie to magblade which either carry their burst/gank playstyle with unbalanced procsets or magblades that play destro/resto.

has anyone of you seriously tried to play a nightblade build without shieldstacking/ permacloaking? It is near to impossible to achieve the tankiness the class provided a few patches ago and everyone is forced to play the same playstyle to be competitive.

@Jeezye Actually yes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RFAA2WCbB4
That was my first night with the build. With more refinement, practice, maybe a strong DPS partner, cloak and shields really aren't necessary.

I don't really get your point here. All you do in your video is run away from 3 players and tank out the limited damage they can put into you while you LOS them. Try fighting a 5+ group that actually hammers on you and you'll find yourself dead really quick.

I spent the greater time since morrowind trying to figure out decent (mag)blade builds that come close to the saptank playstyle, but there is no feasible way so far to incorporate tankyness into a build that can still kill players without shields or cloak

You suggested that you can't play magblade without shields or cloak (we are forced into a playstyle). I did just that.

It's not meant to take a beating and then turn around and drop everyone down. It's a different style, mobile, good self heals, and super annoying for sure.

Like I said, with more refinement, practice, and even a teammate to work with it's a viable build for small group competition.

I'm not trying to say NB doesn't need more buffs though, bring them on.

I see. Well what particulary bugs me out is the inability to build the class to a tankish playstyle. Yes theres plenty of ways to kite and avoid damage, but if you want to build a tankblade ZOS has removed all relevant skills over time.

I'd be very careful to ask for buffs, both mag and stamblade perform perfectly well at the moment. Its more that they should adjust rather than buff skills and mechanics, to make the class have more variety again.

Koensol · August 2018

Jeezye wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Guys this thread is about magblade's playstyle not getting boring. OP didn't ask for any specific buffs whatsoever, he just claimed that the class itsself is getting reduced in mechanics from patch to patch, which cute the possibility for individuals builds and playstyles.

No one is claiming that magblades aren't competitive at their current state, but this only applie to magblade which either carry their burst/gank playstyle with unbalanced procsets or magblades that play destro/resto.

has anyone of you seriously tried to play a nightblade build without shieldstacking/ permacloaking? It is near to impossible to achieve the tankiness the class provided a few patches ago and everyone is forced to play the same playstyle to be competitive.

@Jeezye Actually yes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RFAA2WCbB4
That was my first night with the build. With more refinement, practice, maybe a strong DPS partner, cloak and shields really aren't necessary.

I don't really get your point here. All you do in your video is run away from 3 players and tank out the limited damage they can put into you while you LOS them. Try fighting a 5+ group that actually hammers on you and you'll find yourself dead really quick.

I spent the greater time since morrowind trying to figure out decent (mag)blade builds that come close to the saptank playstyle, but there is no feasible way so far to incorporate tankyness into a build that can still kill players without shields or cloak

At the bolded, you are wrong. It is not easy but it is possible when you play to the classes strength in healing. With the right sets that give you mitigation, the hots can really do their work. Below I will post a build video including gameplay, that I also posted in the saptank thread. The guy in the video isn't me, but his build is almost identical to mine. He uses overwhelming surge in CP, while I put in shackle for no CP for the much needed stamina, and use double dot poison/health drain poison to help proc skoria.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=udYjxz76YXc

When you play in heavy and want to be tanky you need to realize your killing method is pressure. You won't be capable of mad burst, but pressure combined with good combo's is what will bring people down. Especially because they think you aren't doing much damage, and then suddenly they are in trouble when they blew all their resources plowing through your mitigation and suddenly cannot deal with the pressure anymore.

Bam_Bam · August 2018

Astrid_V wrote: »

It's not even about nightblades. It's sad that with every update they keep removing additional effects from abilities from all classes. They never add anything new to them, just removing over and over.

Because they don't know what else to do. Desperately short of both knowledge and in-game experience.

If devs don't actually play the class they should be barred from making permanent changes to it.

Jeezye · August 2018

Koensol wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Guys this thread is about magblade's playstyle not getting boring. OP didn't ask for any specific buffs whatsoever, he just claimed that the class itsself is getting reduced in mechanics from patch to patch, which cute the possibility for individuals builds and playstyles.

No one is claiming that magblades aren't competitive at their current state, but this only applie to magblade which either carry their burst/gank playstyle with unbalanced procsets or magblades that play destro/resto.

has anyone of you seriously tried to play a nightblade build without shieldstacking/ permacloaking? It is near to impossible to achieve the tankiness the class provided a few patches ago and everyone is forced to play the same playstyle to be competitive.

@Jeezye Actually yes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RFAA2WCbB4
That was my first night with the build. With more refinement, practice, maybe a strong DPS partner, cloak and shields really aren't necessary.

I don't really get your point here. All you do in your video is run away from 3 players and tank out the limited damage they can put into you while you LOS them. Try fighting a 5+ group that actually hammers on you and you'll find yourself dead really quick.

I spent the greater time since morrowind trying to figure out decent (mag)blade builds that come close to the saptank playstyle, but there is no feasible way so far to incorporate tankyness into a build that can still kill players without shields or cloak

At the bolded, you are wrong. It is not easy but it is possible when you play to the classes strength in healing. With the right sets that give you mitigation, the hots can really do their work. Below I will post a build video including gameplay, that I also posted in the saptank thread. The guy in the video isn't me, but his build is almost identical to mine. He uses overwhelming surge in CP, while I put in shackle for no CP for the much needed stamina, and use double dot poison/health drain poison to help proc skoria.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=udYjxz76YXc

When you play in heavy and want to be tanky you need to realize your killing method is pressure. You won't be capable of mad burst, but pressure combined with good combo's is what will bring people down. Especially because they think you aren't doing much damage, and then suddenly they are in trouble when they blew all their resources plowing through your mitigation and suddenly cannot deal with the pressure anymore.

Yes I remember this post, and its been the closest to a tanking playstlye I have seen for this patch. I just noticed he actually gets away without using healing ward, which is pretty insane. However, he actually only fights =< 3 players at a time and they don't have much damage. Nonetheless I'd say this is the best you can achieve with the class in the current state.

Twohothardware · August 2018

If they're going to nerf Major Expedition for anything it needed to be on potions more than anything else. A pot should not give you permanent uptime on Major Expedition which is what it does now.

The speed isn't used occasionally as just a means for running away, it's used as an always up buff for kiting your opponent and making it harder to land hits in a laggy Cyrodiil environment. So if it makes sense to cut Major Expedition to just 4 seconds on Cripple how does it make sense for Major Expedition to last 48 seconds, longer than the 45s cooldown, on a potion.

Maryal · August 2018

Speed also is pertinent in pve (speed buffs/de-buffs). As this game matures, it seems that mobs in new content get a little more sophisticated AI programmed into their behavior, and that includes defensive mechanics, which, for some, includes defensive mobility, and I mean speedy mobility. Cripple isn't just a NB defensive mechanic ... it's also an important offensive mechanic ... very much needed to help hits actually land on your pve target. In a meta of 'fake tanks' ... well ... need I say more?