ESO Rant - Lore and Story

Azuramoonstar · August 2018

Rain_Greyraven wrote: »

The only issue I have with the story is the ridiculous insistence to view it through a progressive political lense lately. In Summerset we had to be bashed up side the head with the shillelagh of virtue signaling.

Honestly whoever was responsible for that cringy train wreck should be shown the door, no one wants the "Important message" or to be preached to on how we should feel about real world issues.

Save that BS for civics and Poly-Sci classes thank you very much.

did you not play any elder scrolls game? politics are a big part of TES lore.

look at morrowind you had the telvanni wanting to keep slaves, and the hlaalu being open to non dunmer

you have house redoran fighting against the ashlanders, simply because they keep to the chimer traditions, not the new dunmer ones.

the ash-landers blaming the tribunal for their cursed forms, and viviec keeping a watchful eye on the nerevarine, who may destroy their power and popularity, as living gods.

max_only · August 2018

Don’t engage. It’s bait.

Even people who have only played Skyrim know that the Elder Scrolls have always been about political intrigue.

Azuramoonstar · August 2018

mocap wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

<some idiotic gif>

thats why dialogs in, let's say, Witcher 3 is waaay more interesting. They short and intrigue, rather than big and clumsy. When i'm reading ESO dialogue, sometimes i forget where did it all start. This have a heavy impact on lore perception.

witcher 3 was good but not THAT good, most of its story was over used stuff only cool bit was geralt was a mono toned character void of emotion, yet when people he love are hurt it TRIES to have an emotion.. like mess with ciri, geralt shows his epic dad side.

i got the story telling of witcher 3 to be diet coke of rpg. sure some of it can be good, but it cuts too much out.

also blood and wine made me thing i was playing "interview with a vampire" the video game.

also confused with hearts of stone like.... when did the 1200s get victorian fashion? that girls reminded me of every edgar allen poe female character. i honestly didn't feel super invested in it. I liked the slavic folklore used, but everything had a sudden stop. and a "thats it?"

short dialog doesn't work very well, as it leaves you with a "is that it?" but what about all this build up? Like the bloody barens family quest line, and you prevent anna from turning and he takes her to a healer. nothing happens after, outside you go back and the sargent took over... and that it.

then you have the ending bit, where if you kill the king dude, and the game moves on to do the dlc some how the kings is back alive and the ending seem to just not happen. yet in some cases it did like one character dying and you meet and tell and old flame... who you never see after that 1 quest.

SickleCider · August 2018

I think it really just comes down to a lack of theatrics, for me. Presentation is 75% of your story. There have been a few mentions of environmental storytelling in this thread, citing positive examples from both WoW (the atmosphere creating the impression of an undead scourge) and ESO (the subtle changes leading to the meteor catastrophe in the Vivec storyline). I want to see more of those kind of environmental clues. It's my favorite kind of storytelling!

Expanding on that, I think each region could stand to have a bigger identity. I can hardly tell the difference between Shadowfen, Deshaan, Stonefalls and Vvardenfell because they pull the same assets and color palette. Every map, with just a few exceptions, has the same bleached daylight filter and blue nighttime cast. Aside from the dead trees, Rivenspire doesn't look particularly spooky because of this. I do think color and lighting plays a huge part in the "lack of atmosphere" people have mentioned.

Azuramoonstar · August 2018

max_only wrote: »

Don’t engage. It’s bait.

Even people who have only played Skyrim know that the Elder Scrolls have always been about political intrigue.

think it silly to label everything as bait. how do we have conversations, if we all thought everything is troll bait?

max_only · August 2018

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Don’t engage. It’s bait.

Even people who have only played Skyrim know that the Elder Scrolls have always been about political intrigue.

think it silly to label everything as bait. how do we have conversations, if we all thought everything is troll bait?

You are absolutely right, not everything is troll bait. Certain cliche phrases and terms are obvious to me though. It’s a dichotomy and a dilemma one has to reconcile when engaging on the internet.

It’s like people who complain the X-men or Captain America is too political these days. They have always been that way. Bringing it up with evocative language meant to inflame an emotional response is very transparent.

Maybe I’ve been around too long.

https://youtu.be/ou-eu9k8n_0

psychotrip · August 2018

Isn't it ironic that WoW (a cartoony, silly world that's not meant to be taken too seriously) has more of a memorable story than most Elder Scrolls narratives?

I say this as a die-hard fan of both worlds. We can argue all day about how "stupid" WoW is, but a story can be hokey and charming while still providing a cohesive, enthralling experience. It can also utilize its worldbuilding and characters in a better way.

Whether you like the cartoony silliness or not, WoW's world is dripping with atmosphere. It's also not afraid to be different or strange or...dare I say...fantastical. WoW is a world of martian Orcs, space-demons and talking cows. This throws a wrench in the theory that "casual fans are afraid of weirdness" and that "people want realism".

Meanwhile, ESO seems afraid to embrace the most unique aspects of its worldbuilding. Sure, there's a ton of stuff in the background, and they're definitely willing to ride on the coat-tails of previous games (see Morrowind), but when they're given a choice between a fantastical interpretation or a generic one, they always seem to go for the latter.

Matt Firor's claim that Tamriel is fundamentally a "mundane" world and that if magic disappeared most people wouldn't notice is very telling. They almost seem scared or ashamed of their own IP. It's like they think they won't be taken seriously unless they tone things down and make everything more grounded.

It's a shame too. I really thought they were going the right direction with Orsinium and Clockwork City. They even had some incredible ideas for the Altmer that got datamined a while back. But of course they threw it all in the garbage. Because that's what they do.

Hurbster · August 2018

I'd take the blandest fetch quest dialogue in ESO over the shiteshow of writing we have seen in Battle for Azeroth so far.

And as soon as they turn whole ESO zones into pop- culture meme-fests like they did with WoW (although I don't think they will) I'll be off.

Ydrisselle · August 2018

Hurbster wrote: »

I'd take the blandest fetch quest dialogue in ESO over the shiteshow of writing we have seen in Battle for Azeroth so far.

And as soon as they turn whole ESO zones into pop- culture meme-fests like they did with WoW (although I don't think they will) I'll be off.

Don't you like the 'morally grey' burning of Teldrassil?

I have to agree that WoW can make a great atmosphere during it's quests. Some of them were genuinely surprising (like the Wrathgate-incident, Varian Wrynn's death at the start of the Legion, or Illidan and Xe'ra), and during simple things it can be very immersive (I will always remember fondly about Deathwing torching entire zones during Cataclysm, or the feeling I've felt when I tried to save the civilians in the burning Darnassus).
ESO has many great stories, but the overall atmosphere lacks something many times. I was sure that somebody is a traitor during the Fighter's Guild storyline, but I felt that the twist was simply just thrown there without any clues - like "hey, we need to blame somebody, so put the NPCs names in a hat and pull out one who will be the scapegoat"...

theyancey · August 2018

Elder Scroll games are about reading. Go through some of the in game books. There are tons. I despise WOW and its cartoonish universe. Screw 'em. I'll stick with this universe.

Since The Witcher was mentioned let me just throw this out there. Zen should buy that now shelved franchise. Fire up a new sequel or three. Then drop a Witcher Online game. With all of the brains and resources that Zen has with Bethesda and ESO this would just be a no brainer.

Rain_Greyraven · August 2018

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

Rain_Greyraven wrote: »

The only issue I have with the story is the ridiculous insistence to view it through a progressive political lense lately. In Summerset we had to be bashed up side the head with the shillelagh of virtue signaling.

Honestly whoever was responsible for that cringy train wreck should be shown the door, no one wants the "Important message" or to be preached to on how we should feel about real world issues.

Save that BS for civics and Poly-Sci classes thank you very much.

did you not play any elder scrolls game? politics are a big part of TES lore.

look at morrowind you had the telvanni wanting to keep slaves, and the hlaalu being open to non dunmer

you have house redoran fighting against the ashlanders, simply because they keep to the chimer traditions, not the new dunmer ones.

the ash-landers blaming the tribunal for their cursed forms, and viviec keeping a watchful eye on the nerevarine, who may destroy their power and popularity, as living gods.

Your kinda presenting a false Narrative and yes I have played TES games since Arena, nowhere was I ever a SJW's step and fetch.

Political intrigue is fine, progressive horseshit is something entirely different.

fred4 · August 2018

Oh dear. This is going to be hard to write about. I basically agree with the OP. I played Oblivion, Skyrim, Fallout 3 and Fallout NV, as well as ESO for 3 years now. Having not replayed the earlier games in years, I don't recall whether they were any better. Bethesda's strength has always been in creating these huge sandbox environments. Was there ever much more than that? I remember questing in Oblivion fondly, but the game that really swept me up in it's epic storyline was Dragon Age Origins.

It's much easier for me to contrast Bioware's work with Bethesda's. Bioware's graphics and environments were quite poor, but the facial technology was better at the time. Bioware's games are story-based, with characters that talk like real people. In the best cases, e.g. Leliana in DA:O, they are somewhat complex. It is not immediately obvious what they are about, but there is an integrity to them all the same. That's good writing. With ESO they are either not striving for that, or they're not hiring the writing and acting talent to achieve it. I am actually convinced that Bethesda's success with their sandbox landscapes has resulted in a company that values graphic design, but does not value writing and acting talent nearly enough.

One of the most significant things about DA:O, for me, were the cut scenes, which were played by the game engine, but with movie-like direction and camera angles. This really brought the story to life and I felt DA Inquistion fell flat partly because Bioware got rid of those.

In Bethesda's games, there is often a mechanical quality to the dialogue. Characters don't approach you like a normal human being, but they declare who they are and what they are doing. Nowhere is this more obvious than when they talk about their daily routines ("I must finish this"). I hesitate to call the writing out for lack of emotion, since the in-distress NPC is a staple, but there is certainly a lack of subtlety. The writing is also extremely jarring at times, such as when a character mourns the loss of a loved one, but immediately thereafter understands your part in the quest and financially rewards you.

Having said all that, if you view ESO more as the mechanical beast that it is, then there absolutely is an endgame. As I have a passing interest in chess, I'd liken it to that - or to any board game for that matter. Go into PvP, for example, and there are so many strategies to learn, it will keep you busy for a long time. That is what the end-game is. It's not an adventure anymore. It's something else ... an actual game.

Sevalaricgirl · August 2018

I played WOW and hated it. I love ESO.

TheInfernalRage · August 2018

Eagleheart wrote: »

Hello. I've been thinking a lot about why I'm having a hard time convincing some of my friends to play ESO with me. Friends that I played WOW with A LOT in highschool and had a grand time, but can't seem to stick with ESO.

I'm going to rant a lot about one of the main reasons, hoping to offer the developers some feedback (requests) as well as discussing these aspects with other players, see if others feel the same. While there is A LOT I could write about ESO, I'll try to stick to the lore/story part only, since I think this is one of the main problems with this otherwise amazing game.

Elder Scrolls has an amazing lore, but you do a terrible job taking advantage of it in your story.
Having played WOW and ESO, I have to say ESO is a lot less memorable when it comes to story, characters, and lore. I'm a big elder scrolls fan so I hate to say this, but ESO is a really forgetable story experience.
For those who played wow, I'm sure as soon as you hear the name you can imagine some iconic characters. Illidan and his green blades, Arthas with Frostmourne, Kael'thas and his green orbs, Sylvanass and her tragic backstory.
Unfortunately, when it comes to ESO, nothing like that comes to mind. Yes, such characters exist, but they just aren't presented in a way that has so much impact to the character. And true, the ludicrous 20x character scale makes them easier to notice, and I respect ESO's commitment to realism. But there's a lot beyond that.
When I play WOW, I don't have to read any of the quests to notice a permanent undead presence and "feel" the threat of the scourage throught the lands. I can be a very casual player that skips every cinematic, every quest description, and I will STILL notice "ok, this world has an undead problem". And then as I slowly grow up I face the leader of the undead in the ultimate challenge, and that makes perfect sense to me.

I have nothing like this in ESO. Well, I have SOMETHING like this, but poorly implemented (getting to that soon). In ESO I don't feel any looming threat. There are small isolated threats all over the place, but none of them really FEELS like a big problem. And a question I see asked A LOT about ESO, is "what do you do for the end game?" - this is a big warning to the designers that they lack a glorious final challenge the players aspire for, and that's a big gap that needs to be filled.
When they ask this, players really mean "what's my purpose in this game?" - and the many replies to such threads are never satisfying (level another character, grind for housing, raise fishing, get achievements, get into pvp, max all skills) these are NOT an answer. These are just busy work, people need a GOAL, a PURPOSE, and that is something ESO lacks. I really wish you would address this.
Now here is what we do have, and it started as a promising attempt to fill this gap but failed terribly.

The main story with Molag Bal.
It was a good story, with a good setting. It was a good attempt at what I was describing, a looming permanent threat. You see his dolmens everywhere, anchors opening up and daedra pouring down. But here comes the first issue: those anchors. They are TOO EASY. With a bit of effort, you can solo clear them. They're little more than the randomly spawning daedra (another nice touch, wish they were stronger as well. I would LOVE it if I had to avoid them on lower characters, and I'd actually feel the daedra as an inconvenience in my daily life. Instead they're just cannon fodder). Second... the anchors drop, some daedra spawn, and that's it? They don't seem to be bothering anyone, they aren't doing anything bad... it would be AMAZING if they expanded, and spawn more and more daedra and interfere with your other quests unless taken care of. Then they would really feel like a threat. But maybe this would be too much.
Getting back on track, the main story sets Molag Bal up to be the ultimate villain. On my first playthough, I was CERTAIN Molag Bal would be the final challenge the game had to offer, the ultimate super-difficult raid we'd have to grind to prepare for and wipe countless times. Instead, I was immensely disappointed when I defeated him solo like a ***. HUGE letdown. That's the point where I stopped knowing what I (my character) was playing for. What was the end game going to be? The biggest threat I was aware of was defeated. I consider this to be a terrible design choice on you guys. Only the Mass Effect 3 ending compares to this disappointment.

I understand the strong focus on the solo part of the game and I enjoy that. But as a mainly multiplayer game, I really think it's ok to leave the best part for multiplayer. Again. HUGE missed opportunity here.

So with that gone, what IS the end game content?
In WOW that is obvious. The question there is "why bother with the leveling? It's just a boring time-wasting grind". But the end-game is very well-defined, that's where the cool part start. But ESO? What does ESO reward with when you reach the end game? Sure, better (and stable) gear, bigger numbers, but in terms of content?
Well you haave some trials that address issues you don't care about - fighting some snake in Craglorn that I couldn't convince myself to care why is evil? Don't even know what I fought in Maw of Lorkaj, and same goes for other trials. In WOW there are tons of little quests that prepare you for the final challenge, but here, unless you take the time to actually get into all the quests, these raids seem to come up sort of from nowhere.

This is why I and many other people google "what is ESO end-game". Because there really isn't one. It's basically the same content with bigger stats, and a few out of the blue trials that you have to make some effort to understand and care about.

Molag Bal was a huge missed opportunity to fill this gap. But you have plenty more other princes. You do an awesome job with Shaegorath, and now in Summerset Nocturne starts to fill important too (although, off-topic, I hate it's voice acting - emphasis on IT because I ahve no idea what gender that is). Yes, other princes appear through quests as well, but they're so forgetable. If you made it this far, I'm flattered and thank you for reading .

I WANT to care about ESO characters. I really do. But as a casual player, I usually don't take the time to listen to all the quests. And so, the few characters that stuck with me are Molag Bal, Shaegorath, Raz and Naryu - you did a good job on those - but that's about it. And with Molag Bal defeated, ESO kinda lacks an antagonist. And... more memorable characters.

TLDR:
- ESO needs more iconic characters
- ESO needs a global threat (ex Molag Bal anchors taking over) that culminates in a series of end-game dungeons/raids, to give players purpose.

Personally, the irony here is that I actually forced myself to enjoy WoW for at least two months. Boring. I began to think that the only reason why people convince themselves that the quests in WoW are amazing is that players have been playing with each other for so long, bored for so long, that they ended up sharing experiences instead of playing. The quests in WoW is generic.

When I started playing ESO, I created toons from the three factions and saw immediately that Molag Bal's been trying to play the factions against each other. A murder on Daggerfall, a conspiracy in Vulkhel Guard, and an attempted invasion in Davon's Watch are all connected under the manipulations of Molag Bal. That was what pulled me to the game. When Molag Bal got defeated, and Wrothgar's political climate finally calmed, the Prophet suddenly appear out of nowhere talking about the other Daedric princes are also on the move starting with the attempt to discover the location of Clockwork City. The rest of the succeeding DLCs continue the narrative.

My only problem in the story is that every time a new DLC comes in, ZOS kept moving the starting point of the story. I think the original one should be restored as the starting point. It's really ruining the continuity for me.

Adernath · August 2018

I did all quests in ESO and WoW, and while ESO has less tedious quests if you compare them with the small quests in WoW, there is often no memorable thing for me. I believe that it is mainly because the quests and the world are often extremely generic. This is not only ESO related, the issue was also with Skyrim and Oblivion. In Skyrim for example I have nice memories with the snow elf quest line and the Blackreach region, because these are one of the few things which are out of the norm.

I get it that some people love these generic things. They prefer a generic and realistic world over a cartoonish high-fantasy world. In my opinion it is good to have some generic stuff, but only to prepare for the more unknown, the high fantasy, which comes with most good fantasy novels and its high time that we get some more of this. CWC went into the
right direction, although its 'difficulty' was a big let down for me.

Pops_ND_Irish · August 2018

Hmm never thought of lore. Always played RPGs and MMOs for content and fun !

Sylvermynx · August 2018

I played WoW for eight years and RIFT for three. I never really found much to impress with the "lore" there, or the "story" either. Now, for a lot of those years, it was fun. And when it quit being fun, I left without a backward glance - and a lot more money in my bank account.

TES - I've played since Arena. I know about the lore because of the single player games, but again, it's not the lore/story that makes me want to play. It's whether the game can engage me on a deep level - and TES can. That includes ESO. I never really felt engaged with WoW or RIFT - they were just something to play. Most of my play in both in the later years/stages was playing the AH.... I left WoW with millions of gold sitting on my toons. Ditto RIFT....

Truthfully, I enjoy the background stories, the lore, in TES. But it's not why I play the games. I play TES because they're fun. When they quit being fun, I'll quit playing.

Lysette · August 2018

Adernath wrote: »

@Eagleheart well said! I totally agree.

What we have:

We have many well written small stories, even an overall plot for every region, but it still feels as if one is taking care of a 'region' and the only world-threatening aspect is the deadric invasion. And frankly speaking, this is reduced nowadays to Molag-Bal just dropping his minions into a Thermomix.

What we need:

1) A continuation of the main story line. More epicness, more (or deeper) stories of lost civilizations, wars, invastions, drama! Something to remember and to be excited about in the next chapter. In my opinion the word 'chapter' should be reserved entirely for a continuation of the main story line. For the sake of the lore writers we also need a mechanism to avoid that people play such things in the wrong order.
2) An improvement of certain aspects of the old stories. In particular a stop in the power creep and careful adjustment of the main antagonists of quests and certain overland content. There is no feel of accomplishment if everything can be light attacked to death.
3) Fraction pride, for example with a timer to avoid fraction hopping in Cyrodiil. And maybe additional contested PvE/PvP territory in a future DLC. Who remembers the days when Outland in WoW was new and everyone was going there, doing quests while fighting people of the other alliance? And the story was exciting and spanning over all regions.
4) Class diversity, let it start with class specific themes, mounts, costumes, furnishment. Create paths which we can choose from the beginning but have to stick to it.
5) As in the OP was stated, a more dynamic world would be awesome, where NPCs slowly take over parts of regions and where choices of quests matter. Or where certain parts of the world are opened and made available in-game 'in real time'.
Offtopic here, but for completeness:
6) Appreciation of veteran players, like specific titles for old players.
7) PvP performance...

@ZOS: Do this and your playerbase will be 10x than what we have now.

Sorry, but I like it how it is - I do not want an order forced on me how it was before One Tamriel.

I really like the touristic theme park that ESO has become, where I can do whatever comes to mind without having to care for faction war and other such stuff, which I do not want in the first place. I do not need epicness, all I want is to enjoy Tamriel.

Sylvermynx · August 2018

Eh.... forgot to say, I really hate faction war crap. A VERY personal opinion.... We have enough war in the real world - I don't need it in a game I play to get away from same.

Sevalaricgirl · August 2018

I agree with the people who say WOW quests are not memorable because they are not memorable. The only one I liked was the Lich King.

Sylvermynx · August 2018

Sevalaricgirl wrote: »

I agree with the people who say WOW quests are not memorable because they are not memorable. The only one I liked was the Lich King.

I do agree there. That was an entirely memorable experience! Prior to that, mostly all I remember is the run-everywhere-fight-everything grind to 40....

zTrok · August 2018

Saying that ESO doesn't have memorable characters. Have you never heard the fierce powerful name that is Rigurt the Brash!!

Azuramoonstar · August 2018

Rain_Greyraven wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

Rain_Greyraven wrote: »

The only issue I have with the story is the ridiculous insistence to view it through a progressive political lense lately. In Summerset we had to be bashed up side the head with the shillelagh of virtue signaling.

Honestly whoever was responsible for that cringy train wreck should be shown the door, no one wants the "Important message" or to be preached to on how we should feel about real world issues.

Save that BS for civics and Poly-Sci classes thank you very much.

did you not play any elder scrolls game? politics are a big part of TES lore.

look at morrowind you had the telvanni wanting to keep slaves, and the hlaalu being open to non dunmer

you have house redoran fighting against the ashlanders, simply because they keep to the chimer traditions, not the new dunmer ones.

the ash-landers blaming the tribunal for their cursed forms, and viviec keeping a watchful eye on the nerevarine, who may destroy their power and popularity, as living gods.

Your kinda presenting a false Narrative and yes I have played TES games since Arena, nowhere was I ever a SJW's step and fetch.

Political intrigue is fine, progressive horseshit is something entirely different.

what i listed was in morrowind, both in eso and in tes 3. i'm currently watching a person stream morrowind recently. and played through the eso morrowind story, and side quests.

Ydrisselle · August 2018

Sevalaricgirl wrote: »

I agree with the people who say WOW quests are not memorable because they are not memorable. The only one I liked was the Lich King.

That's also a personal opinion. I know that I will remember for a very long time the Stalvan Mistmantle questline in Duskwood from vanilla WoW, the sleeping druid in Darkshore, the prisoner questchain in Blackfathom Depths (and the epic Onyxia fight in Stormwind after that), the Teron Gorefiend questchain in Shadowmoon Valley, Thrall's arrival in Nagrand, the Wrathgate-questchain, the finding of Muradin Bronzebeard, Ysondre's redemption in Feralas, the Watchers' story in Storm Peaks,the kidnapping of Thassarian in Western Plaguelands, the entire Mists of Pandaria with the Sha and the Celestials, and so on... Of course I was always reading the texts of the quests and listening to the NPCs' conversations during the events.

noob in denial · August 2018

Eagleheart wrote: »

Hello. I've been thinking a lot about why I'm having a hard time convincing some of my friends to play ESO with me. Friends that I played WOW with A LOT in highschool and had a grand time, but can't seem to stick with ESO.

I'm going to rant a lot about one of the main reasons, hoping to offer the developers some feedback (requests) as well as discussing these aspects with other players, see if others feel the same. While there is A LOT I could write about ESO, I'll try to stick to the lore/story part only, since I think this is one of the main problems with this otherwise amazing game.

Elder Scrolls has an amazing lore, but you do a terrible job taking advantage of it in your story.
Having played WOW and ESO, I have to say ESO is a lot less memorable when it comes to story, characters, and lore. I'm a big elder scrolls fan so I hate to say this, but ESO is a really forgetable story experience.
For those who played wow, I'm sure as soon as you hear the name you can imagine some iconic characters. Illidan and his green blades, Arthas with Frostmourne, Kael'thas and his green orbs, Sylvanass and her tragic backstory.
Unfortunately, when it comes to ESO, nothing like that comes to mind. Yes, such characters exist, but they just aren't presented in a way that has so much impact to the character. And true, the ludicrous 20x character scale makes them easier to notice, and I respect ESO's commitment to realism. But there's a lot beyond that.
When I play WOW, I don't have to read any of the quests to notice a permanent undead presence and "feel" the threat of the scourage throught the lands. I can be a very casual player that skips every cinematic, every quest description, and I will STILL notice "ok, this world has an undead problem". And then as I slowly grow up I face the leader of the undead in the ultimate challenge, and that makes perfect sense to me.

I have nothing like this in ESO. Well, I have SOMETHING like this, but poorly implemented (getting to that soon). In ESO I don't feel any looming threat. There are small isolated threats all over the place, but none of them really FEELS like a big problem. And a question I see asked A LOT about ESO, is "what do you do for the end game?" - this is a big warning to the designers that they lack a glorious final challenge the players aspire for, and that's a big gap that needs to be filled.
When they ask this, players really mean "what's my purpose in this game?" - and the many replies to such threads are never satisfying (level another character, grind for housing, raise fishing, get achievements, get into pvp, max all skills) these are NOT an answer. These are just busy work, people need a GOAL, a PURPOSE, and that is something ESO lacks. I really wish you would address this.
Now here is what we do have, and it started as a promising attempt to fill this gap but failed terribly.

The main story with Molag Bal.
It was a good story, with a good setting. It was a good attempt at what I was describing, a looming permanent threat. You see his dolmens everywhere, anchors opening up and daedra pouring down. But here comes the first issue: those anchors. They are TOO EASY. With a bit of effort, you can solo clear them. They're little more than the randomly spawning daedra (another nice touch, wish they were stronger as well. I would LOVE it if I had to avoid them on lower characters, and I'd actually feel the daedra as an inconvenience in my daily life. Instead they're just cannon fodder). Second... the anchors drop, some daedra spawn, and that's it? They don't seem to be bothering anyone, they aren't doing anything bad... it would be AMAZING if they expanded, and spawn more and more daedra and interfere with your other quests unless taken care of. Then they would really feel like a threat. But maybe this would be too much.
Getting back on track, the main story sets Molag Bal up to be the ultimate villain. On my first playthough, I was CERTAIN Molag Bal would be the final challenge the game had to offer, the ultimate super-difficult raid we'd have to grind to prepare for and wipe countless times. Instead, I was immensely disappointed when I defeated him solo like a ***. HUGE letdown. That's the point where I stopped knowing what I (my character) was playing for. What was the end game going to be? The biggest threat I was aware of was defeated. I consider this to be a terrible design choice on you guys. Only the Mass Effect 3 ending compares to this disappointment.

I understand the strong focus on the solo part of the game and I enjoy that. But as a mainly multiplayer game, I really think it's ok to leave the best part for multiplayer. Again. HUGE missed opportunity here.

So with that gone, what IS the end game content?
In WOW that is obvious. The question there is "why bother with the leveling? It's just a boring time-wasting grind". But the end-game is very well-defined, that's where the cool part start. But ESO? What does ESO reward with when you reach the end game? Sure, better (and stable) gear, bigger numbers, but in terms of content?
Well you haave some trials that address issues you don't care about - fighting some snake in Craglorn that I couldn't convince myself to care why is evil? Don't even know what I fought in Maw of Lorkaj, and same goes for other trials. In WOW there are tons of little quests that prepare you for the final challenge, but here, unless you take the time to actually get into all the quests, these raids seem to come up sort of from nowhere.

This is why I and many other people google "what is ESO end-game". Because there really isn't one. It's basically the same content with bigger stats, and a few out of the blue trials that you have to make some effort to understand and care about.

Molag Bal was a huge missed opportunity to fill this gap. But you have plenty more other princes. You do an awesome job with Shaegorath, and now in Summerset Nocturne starts to fill important too (although, off-topic, I hate it's voice acting - emphasis on IT because I ahve no idea what gender that is). Yes, other princes appear through quests as well, but they're so forgetable. If you made it this far, I'm flattered and thank you for reading .

I WANT to care about ESO characters. I really do. But as a casual player, I usually don't take the time to listen to all the quests. And so, the few characters that stuck with me are Molag Bal, Shaegorath, Raz and Naryu - you did a good job on those - but that's about it. And with Molag Bal defeated, ESO kinda lacks an antagonist. And... more memorable characters.

TLDR:
- ESO needs more iconic characters
- ESO needs a global threat (ex Molag Bal anchors taking over) that culminates in a series of end-game dungeons/raids, to give players purpose.

Agreed with everything. Quests, dungeons and trials are very forgettable, so forgettable that for some i have to check wether or not i've been there before. Also the dlcs cost ~25euros and will just bring a shallow incomplete trial like Cloudrest ( feels extremely rushed, all bosses are the same, etc ) and another questing zone that feels like just another starting area. For almost the same price, wow brings whole new expansions.

Generally if you're a decent player, as soon as you hit 3-400CP, you're fully geared in mixed purple and a few gold items AND easily a full set for another character. So basically, as soon as you get your second character to 50, you're already fully geared and what's left to do is level skills.

All in all, it gets extremely boring fast. And one of the main reasons is also because the game is extremely imbalanced, especially PVP, which makes it zero fun to play.

Personally i canceled my sub after two months of activating it ( bought 6 like a fool i was ).

Adernath · August 2018

Lysette wrote: »

Adernath wrote: »

@Eagleheart well said! I totally agree.

What we have:

We have many well written small stories, even an overall plot for every region, but it still feels as if one is taking care of a 'region' and the only world-threatening aspect is the deadric invasion. And frankly speaking, this is reduced nowadays to Molag-Bal just dropping his minions into a Thermomix.

What we need:

1) A continuation of the main story line. More epicness, more (or deeper) stories of lost civilizations, wars, invastions, drama! Something to remember and to be excited about in the next chapter. In my opinion the word 'chapter' should be reserved entirely for a continuation of the main story line. For the sake of the lore writers we also need a mechanism to avoid that people play such things in the wrong order.
2) An improvement of certain aspects of the old stories. In particular a stop in the power creep and careful adjustment of the main antagonists of quests and certain overland content. There is no feel of accomplishment if everything can be light attacked to death.
3) Fraction pride, for example with a timer to avoid fraction hopping in Cyrodiil. And maybe additional contested PvE/PvP territory in a future DLC. Who remembers the days when Outland in WoW was new and everyone was going there, doing quests while fighting people of the other alliance? And the story was exciting and spanning over all regions.
4) Class diversity, let it start with class specific themes, mounts, costumes, furnishment. Create paths which we can choose from the beginning but have to stick to it.
5) As in the OP was stated, a more dynamic world would be awesome, where NPCs slowly take over parts of regions and where choices of quests matter. Or where certain parts of the world are opened and made available in-game 'in real time'.
Offtopic here, but for completeness:
6) Appreciation of veteran players, like specific titles for old players.
7) PvP performance...

@ZOS: Do this and your playerbase will be 10x than what we have now.

Sorry, but I like it how it is - I do not want an order forced on me how it was before One Tamriel.

I really like the touristic theme park that ESO has become, where I can do whatever comes to mind without having to care for faction war and other such stuff, which I do not want in the first place. I do not need epicness, all I want is to enjoy Tamriel.

Literally none of the points I mentioned has anything to do with 1T. For example point 3) was never the case pre-1T because all fractions were separated. And Point 2) concerns mainly the creep regarding the CP system.

Tavore1138 · August 2018

Rain_Greyraven wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

Rain_Greyraven wrote: »

The only issue I have with the story is the ridiculous insistence to view it through a progressive political lense lately. In Summerset we had to be bashed up side the head with the shillelagh of virtue signaling.

Honestly whoever was responsible for that cringy train wreck should be shown the door, no one wants the "Important message" or to be preached to on how we should feel about real world issues.

Save that BS for civics and Poly-Sci classes thank you very much.

did you not play any elder scrolls game? politics are a big part of TES lore.

look at morrowind you had the telvanni wanting to keep slaves, and the hlaalu being open to non dunmer

you have house redoran fighting against the ashlanders, simply because they keep to the chimer traditions, not the new dunmer ones.

the ash-landers blaming the tribunal for their cursed forms, and viviec keeping a watchful eye on the nerevarine, who may destroy their power and popularity, as living gods.

Your kinda presenting a false Narrative and yes I have played TES games since Arena, nowhere was I ever a SJW's step and fetch.

Political intrigue is fine, progressive horseshit is something entirely different.

You start throwin SJW around and I tune out and start picturing an angry guy in a basement working on a heart condition while ranting about how things were better in the stone age - might be more interesting to actually point out which bits of story you felt were pushing real world politics in a heavy handed way?

Tavore1138 · August 2018

On a more relevant note....

I think part of the joy of even the single player TES games is that the NPCs generally are not giant overpowered brightly shaded traditional boos types. It's not supposed to be gods and monsters and NPCs who can crush the universe with a single flick of their hyper-magik wrists. Yes their are aedra and daedra and other deity like entities but they are far more flawed and potentially vulenrable, their plots far more petty and self-serving if odd at times.

And as for memroable characters and stories ESO is full of them from the obvious ones that repeat like Raz or Nayru to the ones that have shorter but stil memorable plots... The Wilderqueen... the weakness of Emeric and all the consequences... the tragedy of Rivenspire... poor crazy Valaste... and many more...

The diference is that all these stories are at a personal level even when the consequences are broad the focus is often on the little details. It's not trying to do what WoW does with it's big colourful cartoon type characters - it's a very different, dare I say, more adult type of story telling. Neither style is right or wrong - just different.

Azuramoonstar · August 2018

heck look at the morag tong, they are political assassins. and balmora has a crime syndicate.

back on topic here my thing

wow had a story? both times i tried to play the thing i saw no story. I went quest hub to quest hub killing 10 bunnies for npc, or what ever the npc had me do. It felt separated and segmented.

I also was playing ff11 which did have a story, so id know if there was a story. no quest had links like eso does.

everything is connected in some way. there 2 stories that go on at first. Your story as vestige, and the story of your faction.

most zone quests are tied to the faction story, and the molag bal quests are tied to the prophet. you have side story's like mages guild, and fiighter.

what i recall of WoW is a box of test telling me to go do something. made it to lvl 46 till i got bored, i just saw no story. And no guild wanted me because i couldn't download addons so i quit.

Tandor · August 2018

lordrichter wrote: »

My main thought is that I played WoW for years, read the story, stopped long enough to read the quest dialog, and I have no memory of those "iconic" characters in the OP. Outside of Wrynn, I actually cannot think of the name of a WoW good guy NPC.

To be fair, even when I played WoW, I considered the story to be very shallow and not well developed. It was there, but it was like they didn't take it seriously. Too many contemporary culture jokes. Oddly enough, that is what stands out to me the most.

Meanwhile, Razum Dar keeps popping up, as does Darien, and a couple of others, in ESO. I feel that the ESO stories follow well with the single player games where story importance, depth, and seriousness are concerned. I want ZOS to keep going on the present path. It is a good one.

This is exactly my own experience of both games.

As for players convincing their friends to play ESO, I personally wouldn't want the game dumbed down to the level where the "I want the best gaming experience, I want it NOW and I'm not prepared to pay for it" brigade consider it worth their time to take a look.