ESO Rant - Lore and Story

Eagleheart

Hello. I've been thinking a lot about why I'm having a hard time convincing some of my friends to play ESO with me. Friends that I played WOW with A LOT in highschool and had a grand time, but can't seem to stick with ESO.

I'm going to rant a lot about one of the main reasons, hoping to offer the developers some feedback (requests) as well as discussing these aspects with other players, see if others feel the same. While there is A LOT I could write about ESO, I'll try to stick to the lore/story part only, since I think this is one of the main problems with this otherwise amazing game.

Elder Scrolls has an amazing lore, but you do a terrible job taking advantage of it in your story.
Having played WOW and ESO, I have to say ESO is a lot less memorable when it comes to story, characters, and lore. I'm a big elder scrolls fan so I hate to say this, but ESO is a really forgetable story experience.
For those who played wow, I'm sure as soon as you hear the name you can imagine some iconic characters. Illidan and his green blades, Arthas with Frostmourne, Kael'thas and his green orbs, Sylvanass and her tragic backstory.
Unfortunately, when it comes to ESO, nothing like that comes to mind. Yes, such characters exist, but they just aren't presented in a way that has so much impact to the character. And true, the ludicrous 20x character scale makes them easier to notice, and I respect ESO's commitment to realism. But there's a lot beyond that.
When I play WOW, I don't have to read any of the quests to notice a permanent undead presence and "feel" the threat of the scourage throught the lands. I can be a very casual player that skips every cinematic, every quest description, and I will STILL notice "ok, this world has an undead problem". And then as I slowly grow up I face the leader of the undead in the ultimate challenge, and that makes perfect sense to me.

I have nothing like this in ESO. Well, I have SOMETHING like this, but poorly implemented (getting to that soon). In ESO I don't feel any looming threat. There are small isolated threats all over the place, but none of them really FEELS like a big problem. And a question I see asked A LOT about ESO, is "what do you do for the end game?" - this is a big warning to the designers that they lack a glorious final challenge the players aspire for, and that's a big gap that needs to be filled.
When they ask this, players really mean "what's my purpose in this game?" - and the many replies to such threads are never satisfying (level another character, grind for housing, raise fishing, get achievements, get into pvp, max all skills) these are NOT an answer. These are just busy work, people need a GOAL, a PURPOSE, and that is something ESO lacks. I really wish you would address this.
Now here is what we do have, and it started as a promising attempt to fill this gap but failed terribly.

The main story with Molag Bal.
It was a good story, with a good setting. It was a good attempt at what I was describing, a looming permanent threat. You see his dolmens everywhere, anchors opening up and daedra pouring down. But here comes the first issue: those anchors. They are TOO EASY. With a bit of effort, you can solo clear them. They're little more than the randomly spawning daedra (another nice touch, wish they were stronger as well. I would LOVE it if I had to avoid them on lower characters, and I'd actually feel the daedra as an inconvenience in my daily life. Instead they're just cannon fodder). Second... the anchors drop, some daedra spawn, and that's it? They don't seem to be bothering anyone, they aren't doing anything bad... it would be AMAZING if they expanded, and spawn more and more daedra and interfere with your other quests unless taken care of. Then they would really feel like a threat. But maybe this would be too much.
Getting back on track, the main story sets Molag Bal up to be the ultimate villain. On my first playthough, I was CERTAIN Molag Bal would be the final challenge the game had to offer, the ultimate super-difficult raid we'd have to grind to prepare for and wipe countless times. Instead, I was immensely disappointed when I defeated him solo like a ***. HUGE letdown. That's the point where I stopped knowing what I (my character) was playing for. What was the end game going to be? The biggest threat I was aware of was defeated. I consider this to be a terrible design choice on you guys. Only the Mass Effect 3 ending compares to this disappointment.

I understand the strong focus on the solo part of the game and I enjoy that. But as a mainly multiplayer game, I really think it's ok to leave the best part for multiplayer. Again. HUGE missed opportunity here.

So with that gone, what IS the end game content?
In WOW that is obvious. The question there is "why bother with the leveling? It's just a boring time-wasting grind". But the end-game is very well-defined, that's where the cool part start. But ESO? What does ESO reward with when you reach the end game? Sure, better (and stable) gear, bigger numbers, but in terms of content?
Well you haave some trials that address issues you don't care about - fighting some snake in Craglorn that I couldn't convince myself to care why is evil? Don't even know what I fought in Maw of Lorkaj, and same goes for other trials. In WOW there are tons of little quests that prepare you for the final challenge, but here, unless you take the time to actually get into all the quests, these raids seem to come up sort of from nowhere.

This is why I and many other people google "what is ESO end-game". Because there really isn't one. It's basically the same content with bigger stats, and a few out of the blue trials that you have to make some effort to understand and care about.

Molag Bal was a huge missed opportunity to fill this gap. But you have plenty more other princes. You do an awesome job with Shaegorath, and now in Summerset Nocturne starts to fill important too (although, off-topic, I hate it's voice acting - emphasis on IT because I ahve no idea what gender that is). Yes, other princes appear through quests as well, but they're so forgetable. If you made it this far, I'm flattered and thank you for reading .

I WANT to care about ESO characters. I really do. But as a casual player, I usually don't take the time to listen to all the quests. And so, the few characters that stuck with me are Molag Bal, Shaegorath, Raz and Naryu - you did a good job on those - but that's about it. And with Molag Bal defeated, ESO kinda lacks an antagonist. And... more memorable characters.

TLDR:
- ESO needs more iconic characters
- ESO needs a global threat (ex Molag Bal anchors taking over) that culminates in a series of end-game dungeons/raids, to give players purpose.

Judas Helviaryn

TL;DR - Atmosphere is lacking.

I agree, and they won't address it.

That's why this game has turned into a cesspool for the wannabe-MLG community, and why PVP is my only enjoyable endgame. (And that, more marginally with each subsequent screw-up.)

Azuramoonstar

WoW has no actual story, it only recently started to develop one. even the cata expac made the doom dragon thing had a lack luster fight.

WoW is based off a world built in their rts. Most WoW lore comes from off game books. The elder scrolls lore was never in your face, it was told by npc, in game books.

in WoW the player character takes a back seat to npcs, in ESO the player character takes a front seat.

having played morrowind onward, idc a threat that made me go "must defeat now" elder scrolls generally lets play how they want, as who they want. the main story typically takes a backseat.

Personally i like this approach then my other MMo ff14 which forces you to do the story going as far as to lock off zones till you get there through the story. ya i can list tons of memorable characters and moments but my character took a back seat to it.

gotta remember in MMO there are no "big bad". sounds to me you play mmo as single player. molag bal was never established as the big bad, if anything mannimarco is, who btw is in practically every elder scrolls game.

the story that takes place in ESO is a prequal to the single player games. A lot of questlines nod to events that end up transpiring in arena, daggerfall, morrowind and skyrim.

mocap

dialogs must be shorten! I don't remember such big wall of text on each screen even in old games like Fallout 1-2. Text should be precise, smart and intrigue without all that pointless water in it. Brevity is the soul of wit.

Iluvrien

OP titles thread as lore/story... but spends most of their time complaining about difficulty, group content and a perceived lack of endgame.

Hmmm

Aliyavana

Wows characters are pretty much written as all overpowered individuals and that bored me. everyone of wows important characters has some godly power or blessed by some diety that can make them take on entire armies of enemies while we have chars like raz who are not on some ridiculous power scale.

Lysette

Well, finally someone who grasped that there is no end game in ESO - it just isn't and that is good that way, because that is not the goal in ESO. The promise ESO made is experience all provinces of Tamriel, that has been the dream of many TES players, to see and experience all of Tamriel. I think most give a damn about Molag Bal and the anchors, they are an inconvenience in the game and a lot do not give a damn about the faction war either - which is conveniently tucked away in Cyrrodil, out of sight.

Otherwise this is a theme park where you can pick your activity as you want - nothing more and nothing less IMO. That there is pvp content can be ignored, like pretty much everything one does not like can be ignored. Even the multiplayer aspect can be widely ignored, if one does not want it - then ESO is just a big TES themed park to play in - picking objectives after ones liking or following a storyline - does not matter really, one can do that, but one does not have to - which is good.

I like it this way, I do not need an overarching threat, which would be in the way of the touristic experience which ESO offers, to see and experience all of Tamriel, this is what the game is about IMO and it delivers there - all the beautiful scenery, story content, where I can engage with, but do not have to, if I don't want to. I can cherry pick what I want to experience and let go on those story elements, where I am not really interested in.

The game has a goal, but it is not end-game - there simply is none - not in the way, some expect it to be. The way is the goal in ESO - your venture across the exciting regions of Tamriel, at least that is what I expect from ESO and what it delivers.

DanteYoda

Uh i disagree.. I find the Lore of Elder scrolls kinda .. crap.. sorry.

Dungeons & Dragons, Warhammer, Lord of the rings all had epic lore compared to here its their games are all garbage fires..

The real reason ESO is so hard to defend and get others to play is the costs and upkeep.. You must buy ESO, then the chapters then the ESO+ and then the crown store is nasty icing on the cake....

I can't justify explaining that to friends and have them give me the look.. You know that look.

Azuramoonstar

mocap wrote: »

dialogs must be shorten! I don't remember such big wall of text on each screen even in old games like Fallout 1-2. Text should be precise, smart and intrigue without all that pointless water in it. Brevity is the soul of wit.

fall out 1 and 2 was isometric rpg, and old........ most of it was cheesey one liners with cheesey rts style voice dubbing.
also bethesda didn't make fall out 1 and 2.

legend of zelda starts with a wall of text giving you back story.

Azuramoonstar

DanteYoda wrote: »

Uh i disagree.. I find the Lore of Elder scrolls kinda .. crap.. sorry.

Dungeons & Dragons, Warhammer, Lord of the rings all had epic lore compared to here its their games are all garbage fires..

The real reason ESO is so hard to defend and get others to play is the costs and upkeep.. You must buy ESO, then the chapters then the ESO+ and then the crown store is nasty icing on the cake....

I can't justify explaining that to friends and have them give me the look.. You know that look.

only people giving you look are people who never played mmo, or games that had expansion packs.
MMo having sub costs, and expansions that also cost money is normal. The games need money to run. it only look abnormal due to the rise of "free" to play games that korea gave us, so people demanded MMO be free. (riot happen in dcuo to make it free to play and the game died cuz of it)

Lysette

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

DanteYoda wrote: »

Uh i disagree.. I find the Lore of Elder scrolls kinda .. crap.. sorry.

Dungeons & Dragons, Warhammer, Lord of the rings all had epic lore compared to here its their games are all garbage fires..

The real reason ESO is so hard to defend and get others to play is the costs and upkeep.. You must buy ESO, then the chapters then the ESO+ and then the crown store is nasty icing on the cake....

I can't justify explaining that to friends and have them give me the look.. You know that look.

only people giving you look are people who never played mmo, or games that had expansion packs.
MMo having sub costs, and expansions that also cost money is normal. The games need money to run. it only look abnormal due to the rise of "free" to play games that korea gave us, so people demanded MMO be free. (riot happen in dcuo to make it free to play and the game died cuz of it)

Yeah, and free 2 play is the most expensive form of MMO on top of it - but most do not grasp that until they are caught and invested so much time, that they do not want to stop playing and then they are drained of their money for relatively normal things already - take for example archeAge - you have to buy labor potions to be able to play a decent amount of the game, otherwise you will not even be able to open your loot and rather silly stuff like this - it is awful, free2play is horrible.

Azuramoonstar

Lysette wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

DanteYoda wrote: »

Uh i disagree.. I find the Lore of Elder scrolls kinda .. crap.. sorry.

Dungeons & Dragons, Warhammer, Lord of the rings all had epic lore compared to here its their games are all garbage fires..

The real reason ESO is so hard to defend and get others to play is the costs and upkeep.. You must buy ESO, then the chapters then the ESO+ and then the crown store is nasty icing on the cake....

I can't justify explaining that to friends and have them give me the look.. You know that look.

only people giving you look are people who never played mmo, or games that had expansion packs.
MMo having sub costs, and expansions that also cost money is normal. The games need money to run. it only look abnormal due to the rise of "free" to play games that korea gave us, so people demanded MMO be free. (riot happen in dcuo to make it free to play and the game died cuz of it)

Yeah, and free 2 play is the most expensive form of MMO on top of it - but most do not grasp that until they are caught and invested so much time, that they do not want to stop playing and then they are drained of their money for relatively normal things already - take for example archeAge - you have to buy labor potions to be able to play a decent amount of the game, otherwise you will not even be able to open your loot and rather silly stuff like this - it is awful, free2play is horrible.

that's why i put "free" in quotes. trust me i played a ton of f2p games and saw first hand how bad it was, spent 60 on a f2p mmo because the characters were chibi style, and the lore was irish (a rare find in mmo) i wanted to support it, but got "scammed" by it as my $60 was not well spent, and i lost out on stuff.

Lysette

And where is ESO expensive?- the collectors edition including base game, gold edition, morrowind and summerset is 40€ currently. Then you get your ESO+ twice a year and you get with it enough crowns to spend on the crown store to get those items, which you deem necessary. There is not much more to spend, to play the full game - you can, if you want to, but you do not have to. This is all you need for the full game - 40€ one time - ESO+ subscription long term, then it is relatively cheap.

Edit: and ESO+ costs you less than a cocktail per month - as well no biggy.

Azuramoonstar

Lysette wrote: »

And where is ESO expensive?- the collectors edition including base game, gold edition, morrowind and summerset is 40€ currently. Then you get your ESO+ twice a year and you get with it enough crowns to spend on the crown store to get those items, which you deem necessary. There is not much more to spend, to play the full game - you can, if you want to, but you do not have to. This is all you need for the full game - 40€ one time - ESO+ subscription long term, then it is relatively cheap.

Edit: and ESO+ costs you less than a cocktail per month - as well no biggy.

heck ps4 had a sale that had eso and morrowind digital for $15-$25 which i bought because my room set up makes disk switching hard to do, and i can't change my room around.

and with eso+ you get crowns based in the value. just pay the sub and save crowns you can buy the dlc so when you can't afford the sub you still have dlc.

Lysette

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

And where is ESO expensive?- the collectors edition including base game, gold edition, morrowind and summerset is 40€ currently. Then you get your ESO+ twice a year and you get with it enough crowns to spend on the crown store to get those items, which you deem necessary. There is not much more to spend, to play the full game - you can, if you want to, but you do not have to. This is all you need for the full game - 40€ one time - ESO+ subscription long term, then it is relatively cheap.

Edit: and ESO+ costs you less than a cocktail per month - as well no biggy.

heck ps4 had a sale that had eso and morrowind digital for $15-$25 which i bought because my room set up makes disk switching hard to do, and i can't change my room around.

and with eso+ you get crowns based in the value. just pay the sub and save crowns you can buy the dlc so when you can't afford the sub you still have dlc.

Well, the collectors edition contains those 4 DLCs - Orsinium, Imperial City, Thief guild and Dark Brotherhood - already plus those 2 chapters. It is a really good offer currently.

I think as well that the idea of not being able to afford the subscription, is a vain one - if you really couldn't, you shouldn't play games in the first place but get your life back to normal - so you will most likely always be able to afford it, because why would you want to let your life slip into poverty just to play a game?- This is not likely to happen.

Azuramoonstar

Lysette wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

And where is ESO expensive?- the collectors edition including base game, gold edition, morrowind and summerset is 40€ currently. Then you get your ESO+ twice a year and you get with it enough crowns to spend on the crown store to get those items, which you deem necessary. There is not much more to spend, to play the full game - you can, if you want to, but you do not have to. This is all you need for the full game - 40€ one time - ESO+ subscription long term, then it is relatively cheap.

Edit: and ESO+ costs you less than a cocktail per month - as well no biggy.

heck ps4 had a sale that had eso and morrowind digital for $15-$25 which i bought because my room set up makes disk switching hard to do, and i can't change my room around.

and with eso+ you get crowns based in the value. just pay the sub and save crowns you can buy the dlc so when you can't afford the sub you still have dlc.

Well, the collectors edition contains those 4 DLCs - Orsinium, Imperial City, Thief guild and Dark Brotherhood - already plus those 2 chapters. It is a really good offer currently.

I think as well that the idea of not being able to afford the subscription, is a vain one - if you really couldn't, you shouldn't play games in the first place but get your life back to normal - so you will most likely always be able to afford it, because why would you want to let your life slip into poverty just to play a game?- This is not likely to happen.

stuff happens, like hospital trips and sudden deaths. I've been playing MMO most my adult life, and life can just happen. For a long time, my family had 1 death a year, and with funeral costs my family barely could afford them. I've seen it with other people, a spouse or child dies suddenly or a friend who your the one she/he name to take care of it. Or a sudden illness or injury.

Not everyone is rich, or are able to get large paying jobs. Most ppl just play mmo as they are cheaper then buying a new game, and can last you years.

that is what i was talking about.

Lysette

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

And where is ESO expensive?- the collectors edition including base game, gold edition, morrowind and summerset is 40€ currently. Then you get your ESO+ twice a year and you get with it enough crowns to spend on the crown store to get those items, which you deem necessary. There is not much more to spend, to play the full game - you can, if you want to, but you do not have to. This is all you need for the full game - 40€ one time - ESO+ subscription long term, then it is relatively cheap.

Edit: and ESO+ costs you less than a cocktail per month - as well no biggy.

heck ps4 had a sale that had eso and morrowind digital for $15-$25 which i bought because my room set up makes disk switching hard to do, and i can't change my room around.

and with eso+ you get crowns based in the value. just pay the sub and save crowns you can buy the dlc so when you can't afford the sub you still have dlc.

Well, the collectors edition contains those 4 DLCs - Orsinium, Imperial City, Thief guild and Dark Brotherhood - already plus those 2 chapters. It is a really good offer currently.

I think as well that the idea of not being able to afford the subscription, is a vain one - if you really couldn't, you shouldn't play games in the first place but get your life back to normal - so you will most likely always be able to afford it, because why would you want to let your life slip into poverty just to play a game?- This is not likely to happen.

stuff happens, like hospital trips and sudden deaths. I've been playing MMO most my adult life, and life can just happen. For a long time, my family had 1 death a year, and with funeral costs my family barely could afford them. I've seen it with other people, a spouse or child dies suddenly or a friend who your the one she/he name to take care of it. Or a sudden illness or injury.

Not everyone is rich, or are able to get large paying jobs. Most ppl just play mmo as they are cheaper then buying a new game, and can last you years.

that is what i was talking about.

Ok, that makes sense - I am from a very healthy family and my partner is too, so we rarely think about illness or death. I doubt I have been ill in this decade so far, well, beside a few issues when eating native foodstuffs in foreign countries for the first time, but that is more my stomage being upset than being sick. What doesn't kill me makes me stronger!

Edit: as far as lasting years go, I would assign this as well to open world single player games - those do not have to be MMOs.

Elsonso

My main thought is that I played WoW for years, read the story, stopped long enough to read the quest dialog, and I have no memory of those "iconic" characters in the OP. Outside of Wrynn, I actually cannot think of the name of a WoW good guy NPC.

To be fair, even when I played WoW, I considered the story to be very shallow and not well developed. It was there, but it was like they didn't take it seriously. Too many contemporary culture jokes. Oddly enough, that is what stands out to me the most.

Meanwhile, Razum Dar keeps popping up, as does Darien, and a couple of others, in ESO. I feel that the ESO stories follow well with the single player games where story importance, depth, and seriousness are concerned. I want ZOS to keep going on the present path. It is a good one.

Lysette

lordrichter wrote: »

My main thought is that I played WoW for years, read the story, stopped long enough to read the quest dialog, and I have no memory of those "iconic" characters in the OP. Outside of Wrynn, I actually cannot think of the name of a WoW good guy NPC.

To be fair, even when I played WoW, I considered the story to be very shallow and not well developed. It was there, but it was like they didn't take it seriously. Too many contemporary culture jokes. Oddly enough, that is what stands out to me the most.

Meanwhile, Razum Dar keeps popping up, as does Darien, and a couple of others, in ESO. I feel that the ESO stories follow well with the single player games where story importance, depth, and seriousness are concerned. I want ZOS to keep going on the present path. It is a good one.

I find the story around Lord Vivec as well very compelling and interesting - as well the subtile changes at first to the environment which get worse over time. This is not just story telling via text and audio, something is happening in 3d.

Robo_Hobo

Any time I've tried to play WoW over the few years, several attempts, I just got too bored because the quests were not enjoyable at all for me, and the storyline didn't engage me at all. Well, that and some other reasons but those were the killers.

The exact opposite was true for ESO, when I first started I enjoyed all of the quests I did from the start, side quest or main quest. However, I do agree that the atmosphere of it all is lacking. Back when I first started when the game was released, you did have to avoid those Dark Anchors as a low level. Eventually, you could solo them if you were good enough, but they weren't faceroll easy, at least. Quests, in general, had more difficulty to them which made the encounters with the antagonists more impactful and meaningful, and Molag Bal was especially an interesting fight. He wasn't extremely difficult, but you had to pay attention and keep on your toes or you would die, and that was very nice. ESO has a lot a lot of that feeling of danger around the corner after One Tamriel, but a lot of players like it that way so I guess it's just going to stay like that. The most that could be done for that would be an optional simplistic difficulty mode, but idk if they'll spend the time doing that.

I don't agree that big questline bosses should be raids, that would be terrible if you couldn't complete the storyline without having to group up with people who will most likely not care about the story of it and rush through it - nothing would be more irritating - but I wouldn't be against having a raid post-quest about the boss. Like, you defeat them solo in the quest and everything's done but then afterward in the raid you can fight them repeatedly, with a narrative reason for why that's the case.

Valabrog

Eagleheart wrote: »

Hello. I've been thinking a lot about why I'm having a hard time convincing some of my friends to play ESO with me. Friends that I played WOW with A LOT in highschool and had a grand time, but can't seem to stick with ESO.

I'm going to rant a lot about one of the main reasons, hoping to offer the developers some feedback (requests) as well as discussing these aspects with other players, see if others feel the same. While there is A LOT I could write about ESO, I'll try to stick to the lore/story part only, since I think this is one of the main problems with this otherwise amazing game.

Elder Scrolls has an amazing lore, but you do a terrible job taking advantage of it in your story.
Having played WOW and ESO, I have to say ESO is a lot less memorable when it comes to story, characters, and lore. I'm a big elder scrolls fan so I hate to say this, but ESO is a really forgetable story experience.
For those who played wow, I'm sure as soon as you hear the name you can imagine some iconic characters. Illidan and his green blades, Arthas with Frostmourne, Kael'thas and his green orbs, Sylvanass and her tragic backstory.
Unfortunately, when it comes to ESO, nothing like that comes to mind. Yes, such characters exist, but they just aren't presented in a way that has so much impact to the character. And true, the ludicrous 20x character scale makes them easier to notice, and I respect ESO's commitment to realism. But there's a lot beyond that.
When I play WOW, I don't have to read any of the quests to notice a permanent undead presence and "feel" the threat of the scourage throught the lands. I can be a very casual player that skips every cinematic, every quest description, and I will STILL notice "ok, this world has an undead problem". And then as I slowly grow up I face the leader of the undead in the ultimate challenge, and that makes perfect sense to me.

I have nothing like this in ESO. Well, I have SOMETHING like this, but poorly implemented (getting to that soon). In ESO I don't feel any looming threat. There are small isolated threats all over the place, but none of them really FEELS like a big problem. And a question I see asked A LOT about ESO, is "what do you do for the end game?" - this is a big warning to the designers that they lack a glorious final challenge the players aspire for, and that's a big gap that needs to be filled.
When they ask this, players really mean "what's my purpose in this game?" - and the many replies to such threads are never satisfying (level another character, grind for housing, raise fishing, get achievements, get into pvp, max all skills) these are NOT an answer. These are just busy work, people need a GOAL, a PURPOSE, and that is something ESO lacks. I really wish you would address this.
Now here is what we do have, and it started as a promising attempt to fill this gap but failed terribly.

The main story with Molag Bal.
It was a good story, with a good setting. It was a good attempt at what I was describing, a looming permanent threat. You see his dolmens everywhere, anchors opening up and daedra pouring down. But here comes the first issue: those anchors. They are TOO EASY. With a bit of effort, you can solo clear them. They're little more than the randomly spawning daedra (another nice touch, wish they were stronger as well. I would LOVE it if I had to avoid them on lower characters, and I'd actually feel the daedra as an inconvenience in my daily life. Instead they're just cannon fodder). Second... the anchors drop, some daedra spawn, and that's it? They don't seem to be bothering anyone, they aren't doing anything bad... it would be AMAZING if they expanded, and spawn more and more daedra and interfere with your other quests unless taken care of. Then they would really feel like a threat. But maybe this would be too much.
Getting back on track, the main story sets Molag Bal up to be the ultimate villain. On my first playthough, I was CERTAIN Molag Bal would be the final challenge the game had to offer, the ultimate super-difficult raid we'd have to grind to prepare for and wipe countless times. Instead, I was immensely disappointed when I defeated him solo like a ***. HUGE letdown. That's the point where I stopped knowing what I (my character) was playing for. What was the end game going to be? The biggest threat I was aware of was defeated. I consider this to be a terrible design choice on you guys. Only the Mass Effect 3 ending compares to this disappointment.

I understand the strong focus on the solo part of the game and I enjoy that. But as a mainly multiplayer game, I really think it's ok to leave the best part for multiplayer. Again. HUGE missed opportunity here.

So with that gone, what IS the end game content?
In WOW that is obvious. The question there is "why bother with the leveling? It's just a boring time-wasting grind". But the end-game is very well-defined, that's where the cool part start. But ESO? What does ESO reward with when you reach the end game? Sure, better (and stable) gear, bigger numbers, but in terms of content?
Well you haave some trials that address issues you don't care about - fighting some snake in Craglorn that I couldn't convince myself to care why is evil? Don't even know what I fought in Maw of Lorkaj, and same goes for other trials. In WOW there are tons of little quests that prepare you for the final challenge, but here, unless you take the time to actually get into all the quests, these raids seem to come up sort of from nowhere.

This is why I and many other people google "what is ESO end-game". Because there really isn't one. It's basically the same content with bigger stats, and a few out of the blue trials that you have to make some effort to understand and care about.

Molag Bal was a huge missed opportunity to fill this gap. But you have plenty more other princes. You do an awesome job with Shaegorath, and now in Summerset Nocturne starts to fill important too (although, off-topic, I hate it's voice acting - emphasis on IT because I ahve no idea what gender that is). Yes, other princes appear through quests as well, but they're so forgetable. If you made it this far, I'm flattered and thank you for reading .

I WANT to care about ESO characters. I really do. But as a casual player, I usually don't take the time to listen to all the quests. And so, the few characters that stuck with me are Molag Bal, Shaegorath, Raz and Naryu - you did a good job on those - but that's about it. And with Molag Bal defeated, ESO kinda lacks an antagonist. And... more memorable characters.

TLDR:
- ESO needs more iconic characters
- ESO needs a global threat (ex Molag Bal anchors taking over) that culminates in a series of end-game dungeons/raids, to give players purpose.

So true..so very true. There are zero to none characters which I admire..They mean almost nothing to me in compare to swtor or wow heroes and villains. One could say eso is closer to reality and in reality there are no true heroes, but hey, its a fiction, make someone who matters. Sylvanas, Thrall, Arcan, Valkorion, Illidan etc etc..In eso the only npc I trully respect is Raz. Its a pitty, because with voice acting you can create so much more. Not even talking about casual armor which all the heroes wear in eso..I remember those "wow" moments when you first encounter faction leaders in other mmorpgs..

Lysette

Valabrog wrote: »

Eagleheart wrote: »

Hello. I've been thinking a lot about why I'm having a hard time convincing some of my friends to play ESO with me. Friends that I played WOW with A LOT in highschool and had a grand time, but can't seem to stick with ESO.

I'm going to rant a lot about one of the main reasons, hoping to offer the developers some feedback (requests) as well as discussing these aspects with other players, see if others feel the same. While there is A LOT I could write about ESO, I'll try to stick to the lore/story part only, since I think this is one of the main problems with this otherwise amazing game.

Elder Scrolls has an amazing lore, but you do a terrible job taking advantage of it in your story.
Having played WOW and ESO, I have to say ESO is a lot less memorable when it comes to story, characters, and lore. I'm a big elder scrolls fan so I hate to say this, but ESO is a really forgetable story experience.
For those who played wow, I'm sure as soon as you hear the name you can imagine some iconic characters. Illidan and his green blades, Arthas with Frostmourne, Kael'thas and his green orbs, Sylvanass and her tragic backstory.
Unfortunately, when it comes to ESO, nothing like that comes to mind. Yes, such characters exist, but they just aren't presented in a way that has so much impact to the character. And true, the ludicrous 20x character scale makes them easier to notice, and I respect ESO's commitment to realism. But there's a lot beyond that.
When I play WOW, I don't have to read any of the quests to notice a permanent undead presence and "feel" the threat of the scourage throught the lands. I can be a very casual player that skips every cinematic, every quest description, and I will STILL notice "ok, this world has an undead problem". And then as I slowly grow up I face the leader of the undead in the ultimate challenge, and that makes perfect sense to me.

I have nothing like this in ESO. Well, I have SOMETHING like this, but poorly implemented (getting to that soon). In ESO I don't feel any looming threat. There are small isolated threats all over the place, but none of them really FEELS like a big problem. And a question I see asked A LOT about ESO, is "what do you do for the end game?" - this is a big warning to the designers that they lack a glorious final challenge the players aspire for, and that's a big gap that needs to be filled.
When they ask this, players really mean "what's my purpose in this game?" - and the many replies to such threads are never satisfying (level another character, grind for housing, raise fishing, get achievements, get into pvp, max all skills) these are NOT an answer. These are just busy work, people need a GOAL, a PURPOSE, and that is something ESO lacks. I really wish you would address this.
Now here is what we do have, and it started as a promising attempt to fill this gap but failed terribly.

The main story with Molag Bal.
It was a good story, with a good setting. It was a good attempt at what I was describing, a looming permanent threat. You see his dolmens everywhere, anchors opening up and daedra pouring down. But here comes the first issue: those anchors. They are TOO EASY. With a bit of effort, you can solo clear them. They're little more than the randomly spawning daedra (another nice touch, wish they were stronger as well. I would LOVE it if I had to avoid them on lower characters, and I'd actually feel the daedra as an inconvenience in my daily life. Instead they're just cannon fodder). Second... the anchors drop, some daedra spawn, and that's it? They don't seem to be bothering anyone, they aren't doing anything bad... it would be AMAZING if they expanded, and spawn more and more daedra and interfere with your other quests unless taken care of. Then they would really feel like a threat. But maybe this would be too much.
Getting back on track, the main story sets Molag Bal up to be the ultimate villain. On my first playthough, I was CERTAIN Molag Bal would be the final challenge the game had to offer, the ultimate super-difficult raid we'd have to grind to prepare for and wipe countless times. Instead, I was immensely disappointed when I defeated him solo like a ***. HUGE letdown. That's the point where I stopped knowing what I (my character) was playing for. What was the end game going to be? The biggest threat I was aware of was defeated. I consider this to be a terrible design choice on you guys. Only the Mass Effect 3 ending compares to this disappointment.

I understand the strong focus on the solo part of the game and I enjoy that. But as a mainly multiplayer game, I really think it's ok to leave the best part for multiplayer. Again. HUGE missed opportunity here.

So with that gone, what IS the end game content?
In WOW that is obvious. The question there is "why bother with the leveling? It's just a boring time-wasting grind". But the end-game is very well-defined, that's where the cool part start. But ESO? What does ESO reward with when you reach the end game? Sure, better (and stable) gear, bigger numbers, but in terms of content?
Well you haave some trials that address issues you don't care about - fighting some snake in Craglorn that I couldn't convince myself to care why is evil? Don't even know what I fought in Maw of Lorkaj, and same goes for other trials. In WOW there are tons of little quests that prepare you for the final challenge, but here, unless you take the time to actually get into all the quests, these raids seem to come up sort of from nowhere.

This is why I and many other people google "what is ESO end-game". Because there really isn't one. It's basically the same content with bigger stats, and a few out of the blue trials that you have to make some effort to understand and care about.

Molag Bal was a huge missed opportunity to fill this gap. But you have plenty more other princes. You do an awesome job with Shaegorath, and now in Summerset Nocturne starts to fill important too (although, off-topic, I hate it's voice acting - emphasis on IT because I ahve no idea what gender that is). Yes, other princes appear through quests as well, but they're so forgetable. If you made it this far, I'm flattered and thank you for reading .

I WANT to care about ESO characters. I really do. But as a casual player, I usually don't take the time to listen to all the quests. And so, the few characters that stuck with me are Molag Bal, Shaegorath, Raz and Naryu - you did a good job on those - but that's about it. And with Molag Bal defeated, ESO kinda lacks an antagonist. And... more memorable characters.

TLDR:
- ESO needs more iconic characters
- ESO needs a global threat (ex Molag Bal anchors taking over) that culminates in a series of end-game dungeons/raids, to give players purpose.

So true..so very true. There are zero to none characters which I admire..They mean almost nothing to me in compare to swtor or wow heroes and villains. One could say eso is closer to reality and in reality there are no true heroes, but hey, its a fiction, make someone who matters. Sylvanas, Thrall, Arcan, Valkorion, Illidan etc etc..In eso the only npc I trully respect is Raz. Its a pitty, because with voice acting you can create so much more. Not even talking about casual armor which all the heroes wear in eso..I remember those "wow" moments when you first encounter faction leaders in other mmorpgs..

You can't say that in reality there are no true heroes - those are the only true heroes, and they are mostly normal people which had the right attitude when the occasion arose - like those fire fighters in CA currently, they come from all over the globe, even from australia to help - these are true heroes. What you see as "true hero" are fictional characters, nothing with them is any real.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

mocap wrote: »

dialogs must be shorten! I don't remember such big wall of text on each screen even in old games like Fallout 1-2. Text should be precise, smart and intrigue without all that pointless water in it. Brevity is the soul of wit.

Balticthunder

Agree on OP, i even cannot bring myself to do new quest content (Morrowind, Clockwork, Summerset) anymore - somehow I have zero excitement, nor wish to do it. I just run Dlc dungeons and vma and thats it. I know soon I will be bored again and leave till next new dungeons.
I dont have a feeling of big living and evolving world in ESO, just many separated zones with their own problems/quests - solve them and move on, never to return or care anymore...

Adernath

@Eagleheart well said! I totally agree.

What we have:

We have many well written small stories, even an overall plot for every region, but it still feels as if one is taking care of a 'region' and the only world-threatening aspect is the deadric invasion. And frankly speaking, this is reduced nowadays to Molag-Bal just dropping his minions into a Thermomix.

What we need:

1) A continuation of the main story line. More epicness, more (or deeper) stories of lost civilizations, wars, invastions, drama! Something to remember and to be excited about in the next chapter. In my opinion the word 'chapter' should be reserved entirely for a continuation of the main story line. For the sake of the lore writers we also need a mechanism to avoid that people play such things in the wrong order.
2) An improvement of certain aspects of the old stories. In particular a stop in the power creep and careful adjustment of the main antagonists of quests and certain overland content. There is no feel of accomplishment if everything can be light attacked to death.
3) Fraction pride, for example with a timer to avoid fraction hopping in Cyrodiil. And maybe additional contested PvE/PvP territory in a future DLC. Who remembers the days when Outland in WoW was new and everyone was going there, doing quests while fighting people of the other alliance? And the story was exciting and spanning over all regions.
4) Class diversity, let it start with class specific themes, mounts, costumes, furnishment. Create paths which we can choose from the beginning but have to stick to it.
5) As in the OP was stated, a more dynamic world would be awesome, where NPCs slowly take over parts of regions and where choices of quests matter. Or where certain parts of the world are opened and made available in-game 'in real time'.
Offtopic here, but for completeness:
6) Appreciation of veteran players, like specific titles for old players.
7) PvP performance...

@ZOS: Do this and your playerbase will be 10x than what we have now.

Rain_Greyraven

The only issue I have with the story is the ridiculous insistence to view it through a progressive political lense lately. In Summerset we had to be bashed up side the head with the shillelagh of virtue signaling.

Honestly whoever was responsible for that cringy train wreck should be shown the door, no one wants the "Important message" or to be preached to on how we should feel about real world issues.

Save that BS for civics and Poly-Sci classes thank you very much.

max_only

I don’t even know where to begin.

I disagree with op, and with half the posts so far in this thread.

Maybe the lore is too mature for your friends? It sounds more like trying to get people who are reading Goosebumps into the original manga of Berserk.

I played WoW from almost day one and the whole thing was a joke. It was cute and all, but a joke. The only thing I miss was the original way hunters had to make their pets love them by channeling a heart spell and the Undead race’s cannibalism ability. Couldn’t tell you one memorable thing about the story honestly. I even went to see that “movie” they made and the plot was terrible on its own outside of any nostalgia.

Disagreement. So much disagreement in this thread.

mocap

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

<some idiotic gif>

thats why dialogs in, let's say, Witcher 3 is waaay more interesting. They short and intrigue, rather than big and clumsy. When i'm reading ESO dialogue, sometimes i forget where did it all start. This have a heavy impact on lore perception.

Kikke

Read dialogue.....how about enjoying the voice acting on ALL dialogues ingame?

Azuramoonstar

Lysette wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

And where is ESO expensive?- the collectors edition including base game, gold edition, morrowind and summerset is 40€ currently. Then you get your ESO+ twice a year and you get with it enough crowns to spend on the crown store to get those items, which you deem necessary. There is not much more to spend, to play the full game - you can, if you want to, but you do not have to. This is all you need for the full game - 40€ one time - ESO+ subscription long term, then it is relatively cheap.

Edit: and ESO+ costs you less than a cocktail per month - as well no biggy.

heck ps4 had a sale that had eso and morrowind digital for $15-$25 which i bought because my room set up makes disk switching hard to do, and i can't change my room around.

and with eso+ you get crowns based in the value. just pay the sub and save crowns you can buy the dlc so when you can't afford the sub you still have dlc.

Well, the collectors edition contains those 4 DLCs - Orsinium, Imperial City, Thief guild and Dark Brotherhood - already plus those 2 chapters. It is a really good offer currently.

I think as well that the idea of not being able to afford the subscription, is a vain one - if you really couldn't, you shouldn't play games in the first place but get your life back to normal - so you will most likely always be able to afford it, because why would you want to let your life slip into poverty just to play a game?- This is not likely to happen.

stuff happens, like hospital trips and sudden deaths. I've been playing MMO most my adult life, and life can just happen. For a long time, my family had 1 death a year, and with funeral costs my family barely could afford them. I've seen it with other people, a spouse or child dies suddenly or a friend who your the one she/he name to take care of it. Or a sudden illness or injury.

Not everyone is rich, or are able to get large paying jobs. Most ppl just play mmo as they are cheaper then buying a new game, and can last you years.

that is what i was talking about.

Ok, that makes sense - I am from a very healthy family and my partner is too, so we rarely think about illness or death. I doubt I have been ill in this decade so far, well, beside a few issues when eating native foodstuffs in foreign countries for the first time, but that is more my stomage being upset than being sick. What doesn't kill me makes me stronger!

Edit: as far as lasting years go, I would assign this as well to open world single player games - those do not have to be MMOs.

i was including those dude.

max_only

It’s fully voice acted though. You could listen to it as well. The expression on the npcs’ faces are also really neat.

Think of eso like an interactive movie not a book of puns for kids.

I have a lot of book analogies because I sell books. It’s starting to sound like the people who skipped over the full text pages in Watchmen and came away from the comic with a bad impression/shallow interpretation.