Would You Like to See NMA Updated To Give Imperfected Maelstrom Weapons

code65536 · August 2018

Yes

BNOC wrote: »

NMA takes 15 minutes and you can almost stand still the entire time, can be naked and have no mundus/food etc.

Do not reward anything for that.

If a player can't complete VMA, then it's highly unlikely that they're in situations that require the weapons.

nCoA1 takes less than 15 minutes, and you can derp through it solo with any kind of character.

Do not reward anything for for that.

If a player can't complete vCoA1, then it's highly unlikely that they're in situations that require Burning Spellweave.

In case it's not obvious, I'm being sarcastic.

Gear should not be locked behind difficult content. What purpose would doing that serve anyone? Why do you or anyone care if the destro is useless for someone who hasn't mastered weaving? What's the harm in letting them have it? Not to mention, this is inconsistent with how gear acquisition works everywhere else in the game.

Yes, vMA is aspirational content, and I highly encourage people to run vMA because I strongly believe that completing vMA makes someone a better player.

But how is any of that relevant to the weapon drops? Having imperfect weapons drop from nMA doesn't make vMA any less aspirational. After all, the main draw for completing vMA should be the clear and the growth that comes from the clear, not the weapon. And adding perfected weapons that drop only from a sigil-free vet run will mean that the elite players still have a form exclusive gear (but only with minor differences, rather than exclusive gear for which there is no analogue).

SquareSausage · August 2018

No

To be brutally honest if you can't complete vMA by this point in time with 750 CP available I'll guess you probably aren't going to be a very good DPSer anyway so wouldn't make much difference if you had the staff or not or even an imperfected version.

idk · August 2018

No

code65536 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Reminds me of the v13 weapons that dropped from normal DSA ages and ages ago. I think, personally, it is a good design choice.

But this were no masterweapons, just weapons of the sets you got in DSA.

So the current weapons will be considered imperfect, make them drop in normal so that they are accessible to everyone. And then bring back the old stat bonuses in the form of perfected weapons that drop only from vet "HM" (sigil-free, no saves, and maybe even with an imposed time limit) and from leaderboards.

This makes your earlier suggestion clear. However, requiring leaderboard, or even leaderboard time, would be a step away from how you are suggesting perfected weapons drop. Though seemingly a major step since leaderboard is not required to get perfected weapons from trials, thought that is where most get theirs, but it is a different situation.

Hence the "maybe". Just throwing ideas at the wall on how to get close to a HM feeling for content that doesn't have HM in the traditional sense. Sigil-free and no-save are the two that I'll stand by. Other requirements, I'm not so sure about.

Understand. Thx for the reply. And Sigil-free no-Save is pretty doable yet still offer some additional resistance.

Icy_Waffles · August 2018

No

Earn it. Not to sound harsh but really. VDSA is very hard at first. But you work and fight for it. Once you get it, man it’s kinda cool.

Malacthulhu · August 2018

Yes

They would have to make nma harder or introduce a medium ma otherwise you are pretty much getting it for very little effort in my opinion as mechanics can be completely neglected in normal.

Danksta · August 2018

huschdeguddzje wrote: »

Yeah but not as a guaranteed drop. Maybe increase drop chance by score?

Score??? For nMA??

Artim_X · August 2018

Other

code65536 wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

NMA takes 15 minutes and you can almost stand still the entire time, can be naked and have no mundus/food etc.

Do not reward anything for that.

If a player can't complete VMA, then it's highly unlikely that they're in situations that require the weapons.

nCoA1 takes less than 15 minutes, and you can derp through it solo with any kind of character.

Do not reward anything for for that.

If a player can't complete vCoA1, then it's highly unlikely that they're in situations that require Burning Spellweave.

In case it's not obvious, I'm being sarcastic.

Gear should not be locked behind difficult content. What purpose would doing that serve anyone? Why do you or anyone care if the destro is useless for someone who hasn't mastered weaving? What's the harm in letting them have it? Not to mention, this is inconsistent with how gear acquisition works everywhere else in the game.

Yes, vMA is aspirational content, and I highly encourage people to run vMA because I strongly believe that completing vMA makes someone a better player.

But how is any of that relevant to the weapon drops? Having imperfect weapons drop from nMA doesn't make vMA any less aspirational. After all, the main draw for completing vMA should be the clear and the growth that comes from the clear, not the weapon. And adding perfected weapons that drop only from a sigil-free vet run will mean that the elite players still have a form exclusive gear (but only with minor differences, rather than exclusive gear for which there is no analogue).

Although I know that you are being sarcastic the example you give isn't comparable. For instance, you can farm normal maelstrom arena for arena sets like winterborn. If you want a maelstrom weapon then you have to complete the arena on vet. This is akin to having to complete a dungeon on vet in order to get a monster head piece, which does not drop on normal.

Your suggestion of adding perfect weapons to sigil free runs will inherently make farming maelstrom weapons harder than it already is. You could complete the arena a hundred times and never get a fire staff. If your suggestion made all previously obtained maelstrom weapons imperfect then many players including myself will feel quite frustrated with having to regrind the arena knowing full well that transmutation will not help us if the wrong weapon drops.

If one has a comfortable and logical rotation they'll be able to perform well without ability changing weapon. Lots of players are able to make use of two full 5 piece sets and a monster set. If one feels that a certain set is necessary for their build then they have to put in some effort to get it.

Of course, I wouldn't mind if ability changing weapons were once again added to PvP rewards or perhaps Adhazabi Aba-daro The Golden could start selling them, since monster sets can be obtained from The Golden if one is willing to be patient.

Inarre · August 2018

No

ezio45 wrote: »

Pretty straight forward, would you like to see nma offer a variant of its current weapons available from the normal version of the trial.

No

ezio45 wrote: »

There are alot of classes that straight up require these weapons from vma.

No class requires anything. Builds are completely open. No guild I've ever seen has ever put in their requirements "must have a vMA weapon", not even meta hungry guilds.

ezio45 wrote: »

Giving a watered down version would help out players that arnt experienced with vma have more complete build

How will a watered down version of a vMA weapon help players have a more complete build? This sounds like its less a build issue and more an ego issue. I would far rather have someone who has completed vma on my team without a vma weapon than someone who has not who does have a weapon.

Not every piece of difficult content needs a consolation prize for players who haven't put the effort in to complete it. VMA is not particularly mechanically difficult. It is all about perseverance. if you want the vMA weapons then go put in the time.

Mureel · August 2018

No

redspecter23 wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Reminds me of the v13 weapons that dropped from normal DSA ages and ages ago. I think, personally, it is a good design choice.

But this were no masterweapons, just weapons of the sets you got in DSA.

Back in the days before v16, DSA dropped v13 versions of the master weapons. There also wasn't as huge a disparity between v13 and v14 as there is now between cp150 and cp160. It was a system very similar to the standard/perfected type of weapons we have now.

Not as I recall! Only gear and gear set weapons- never master.

But then, I've run Vet countless times and normal once only - so I could be having a mental block....

idk · August 2018

No

Artim_X wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

NMA takes 15 minutes and you can almost stand still the entire time, can be naked and have no mundus/food etc.

Do not reward anything for that.

If a player can't complete VMA, then it's highly unlikely that they're in situations that require the weapons.

nCoA1 takes less than 15 minutes, and you can derp through it solo with any kind of character.

Do not reward anything for for that.

If a player can't complete vCoA1, then it's highly unlikely that they're in situations that require Burning Spellweave.

In case it's not obvious, I'm being sarcastic.

Gear should not be locked behind difficult content. What purpose would doing that serve anyone? Why do you or anyone care if the destro is useless for someone who hasn't mastered weaving? What's the harm in letting them have it? Not to mention, this is inconsistent with how gear acquisition works everywhere else in the game.

Yes, vMA is aspirational content, and I highly encourage people to run vMA because I strongly believe that completing vMA makes someone a better player.

But how is any of that relevant to the weapon drops? Having imperfect weapons drop from nMA doesn't make vMA any less aspirational. After all, the main draw for completing vMA should be the clear and the growth that comes from the clear, not the weapon. And adding perfected weapons that drop only from a sigil-free vet run will mean that the elite players still have a form exclusive gear (but only with minor differences, rather than exclusive gear for which there is no analogue).

Although I know that you are being sarcastic the example you give isn't comparable. For instance, you can farm normal maelstrom arena for arena sets like winterborn. If you want a maelstrom weapon then you have to complete the arena on vet. This is akin to having to complete a dungeon on vet in order to get a monster head piece, which does not drop on normal.

Your suggestion of adding perfect weapons to sigil free runs will inherently make farming maelstrom weapons harder than it already is. You could complete the arena a hundred times and never get a fire staff. If your suggestion made all previously obtained maelstrom weapons imperfect then many players including myself will feel quite frustrated with having to regrind the arena knowing full well that transmutation will not help us if the wrong weapon drops.

If one has a comfortable and logical rotation they'll be able to perform well without ability changing weapon. Lots of players are able to make use of two full 5 piece sets and a monster set. If one feels that a certain set is necessary for their build then they have to put in some effort to get it.

Of course, I wouldn't mind if ability changing weapons were once again added to PvP rewards or perhaps Adhazabi Aba-daro The Golden could start selling them, since monster sets can be obtained from The Golden if one is willing to be patient.

I think you have misread Code's comments.

Code has not suggested making any changes to current vMA weapons. They would remain as they are and contrary to your comment I made bold, they would become easier to farm.

It is the new weapon, perfected, that would return the old stat bonus and still permit an enchant on top of that which would require the no-sigil/no-save run to obtain. He is not even saying they have to obtain a HM score

Anyone that can clear vMA can clear it in this manner. It may take them some more practice but it can be done. I am not one of the best at clearing vMA, hate it actually, but I can clear it easily without sigils and do it often without saving.

The only reason I do not have a good score is a step away after each round in the later rounds to chill, but I do not save. This past week I was having over half my lives left when I completed. The bar for this is not raised very much.

code65536 · August 2018

Yes

Artim_X wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

NMA takes 15 minutes and you can almost stand still the entire time, can be naked and have no mundus/food etc.

Do not reward anything for that.

If a player can't complete VMA, then it's highly unlikely that they're in situations that require the weapons.

nCoA1 takes less than 15 minutes, and you can derp through it solo with any kind of character.

Do not reward anything for for that.

If a player can't complete vCoA1, then it's highly unlikely that they're in situations that require Burning Spellweave.

In case it's not obvious, I'm being sarcastic.

Gear should not be locked behind difficult content. What purpose would doing that serve anyone? Why do you or anyone care if the destro is useless for someone who hasn't mastered weaving? What's the harm in letting them have it? Not to mention, this is inconsistent with how gear acquisition works everywhere else in the game.

Yes, vMA is aspirational content, and I highly encourage people to run vMA because I strongly believe that completing vMA makes someone a better player.

But how is any of that relevant to the weapon drops? Having imperfect weapons drop from nMA doesn't make vMA any less aspirational. After all, the main draw for completing vMA should be the clear and the growth that comes from the clear, not the weapon. And adding perfected weapons that drop only from a sigil-free vet run will mean that the elite players still have a form exclusive gear (but only with minor differences, rather than exclusive gear for which there is no analogue).

Although I know that you are being sarcastic the example you give isn't comparable. For instance, you can farm normal maelstrom arena for arena sets like winterborn. If you want a maelstrom weapon then you have to complete the arena on vet. This is akin to having to complete a dungeon on vet in order to get a monster head piece, which does not drop on normal.

Your suggestion of adding perfect weapons to sigil free runs will inherently make farming maelstrom weapons harder than it already is. You could complete the arena a hundred times and never get a fire staff. If your suggestion made all previously obtained maelstrom weapons imperfect then many players including myself will feel quite frustrated with having to regrind the arena knowing full well that transmutation will not help us if the wrong weapon drops.

If one has a comfortable and logical rotation they'll be able to perform well without ability changing weapon. Lots of players are able to make use of two full 5 piece sets and a monster set. If one feels that a certain set is necessary for their build then they have to put in some effort to get it.

Of course, I wouldn't mind if ability changing weapons were once again added to PvP rewards or perhaps Adhazabi Aba-daro The Golden could start selling them, since monster sets can be obtained from The Golden if one is willing to be patient.

Fine, let's try a different one: normal Asylum weapons drop from nAS +0, which any zone PUG can complete. And what about the Perfected weapons? With the one exception of the destro, the normal and Perfected weapons are barely any different.

And this is fine. It doesn't take anything away from me that people can have normal weapons that are almost as good as the Perfected weapons that I got after spending countless hours progressing through vAS +2.

As for regrinding Perfected Maelstrom weapons... if you don't want to, don't do it. Under my proposal, your existing weapons aren't being nerfed in any way, so why not just keep using them? Now, if you absolutely must chase after BiS (an extra 129 spell damage on a back bar is not going to make much of a difference in the first place), then, ok, you'll have to regrind, but how is that any different than people having to acquire whatever is the latest trinket each patch? Finally, I got my Maelstrom weapons years ago, back in the days when weapons weren't even guaranteed from the final chest. These days, you get guaranteed drops and transmutation and people still call it a grind? Hah!

Leogon · August 2018

Yes

I don't mind but only if they make NMA much more difficult than it currently is. It's so easy that I could complete it using my feet.

ATomiX96 · August 2018

No

people still acting like vma is impossibly hard smh...
SPOILER: its not. If you are really trying to clear vMA for the first time i can assure you if you read a few guides and if you are not completely mechanicly challenged you'll clear it within a week or so. To the people throwing out "VMA IS JUST ABOUT DPS" QQ, yes higher dps makes it easier to clear but thats the case with all the content in the game. Im pretty confident you can clear vMA on a petsorc with just shield and heavy attacks.
And if you are just playing the game casually you dont need the weapons anyways.

They should have never introduced imperfect weapons with Asylum Sanctorium and should have kept them exclusively to the hardmode so people actually have to "TRY" to get good Gear and not just get slightly worse versions of them handed to them for free.

code65536 · August 2018

Yes

ATomiX96 wrote: »

They should have never introduced imperfect weapons with Asylum Sanctorium and should have kept them exclusively to the hardmode so people actually have to "TRY" to get good Gear and not just get slightly worse versions of them handed to them for free.

Absolutely not. And I say this as someone who has so many Perfected Asylum Inferno staves that I now decon any new ones that I get.

People who can get Perfected gear already have the advantage of skill and experience. It is not fair--or good for the game--to give them exclusive gear advantages on top of all that. The Perfected-vs-Normal system is great, as it allows the game to reward the elite with something exclusive, while also limiting the amount of advantage that they get from that exclusive gear.

Actually, I'd personally be okay if they got rid of Perfected gear and have the exact same gear drop in normal as vet hard mode. Because the game should be about a player's skill and ability, not about their gear. I'm not so insecure as to covet exclusive gear. That said, I do understand the need for players to feel rewarded for beating difficult content, which is why I support the current Perfected-vs-Normal system.

Vapirko · August 2018

No

Just give us back the 1pc set bonus please. There’s no *** reason that the hardest content in the game should yield useless weapons. One of ZOS’ most disappointing moves.

Inklings · August 2018

No

No. The idea of imperfect and perfect gear is already lame enough lets not spread it to old content as well. The whole system is not needed and i wish that whole idea would just go away.

DocFrost72 · August 2018

Yes

Mureel wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Reminds me of the v13 weapons that dropped from normal DSA ages and ages ago. I think, personally, it is a good design choice.

But this were no masterweapons, just weapons of the sets you got in DSA.

Back in the days before v16, DSA dropped v13 versions of the master weapons. There also wasn't as huge a disparity between v13 and v14 as there is now between cp150 and cp160. It was a system very similar to the standard/perfected type of weapons we have now.

Not as I recall! Only gear and gear set weapons- never master.

But then, I've run Vet countless times and normal once only - so I could be having a mental block....

Normal DSA dropped Master Weapons.

When I get home I will link my cp130 (previously VR 13) master resto I got from running normal.

Artim_X · August 2018

Other

code65536 wrote: »

Artim_X wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

NMA takes 15 minutes and you can almost stand still the entire time, can be naked and have no mundus/food etc.

Do not reward anything for that.

If a player can't complete VMA, then it's highly unlikely that they're in situations that require the weapons.

nCoA1 takes less than 15 minutes, and you can derp through it solo with any kind of character.

Do not reward anything for for that.

If a player can't complete vCoA1, then it's highly unlikely that they're in situations that require Burning Spellweave.

In case it's not obvious, I'm being sarcastic.

Gear should not be locked behind difficult content. What purpose would doing that serve anyone? Why do you or anyone care if the destro is useless for someone who hasn't mastered weaving? What's the harm in letting them have it? Not to mention, this is inconsistent with how gear acquisition works everywhere else in the game.

Yes, vMA is aspirational content, and I highly encourage people to run vMA because I strongly believe that completing vMA makes someone a better player.

But how is any of that relevant to the weapon drops? Having imperfect weapons drop from nMA doesn't make vMA any less aspirational. After all, the main draw for completing vMA should be the clear and the growth that comes from the clear, not the weapon. And adding perfected weapons that drop only from a sigil-free vet run will mean that the elite players still have a form exclusive gear (but only with minor differences, rather than exclusive gear for which there is no analogue).

Although I know that you are being sarcastic the example you give isn't comparable. For instance, you can farm normal maelstrom arena for arena sets like winterborn. If you want a maelstrom weapon then you have to complete the arena on vet. This is akin to having to complete a dungeon on vet in order to get a monster head piece, which does not drop on normal.

Your suggestion of adding perfect weapons to sigil free runs will inherently make farming maelstrom weapons harder than it already is. You could complete the arena a hundred times and never get a fire staff. If your suggestion made all previously obtained maelstrom weapons imperfect then many players including myself will feel quite frustrated with having to regrind the arena knowing full well that transmutation will not help us if the wrong weapon drops.

If one has a comfortable and logical rotation they'll be able to perform well without ability changing weapon. Lots of players are able to make use of two full 5 piece sets and a monster set. If one feels that a certain set is necessary for their build then they have to put in some effort to get it.

Of course, I wouldn't mind if ability changing weapons were once again added to PvP rewards or perhaps Adhazabi Aba-daro The Golden could start selling them, since monster sets can be obtained from The Golden if one is willing to be patient.

Fine, let's try a different one: normal Asylum weapons drop from nAS +0, which any zone PUG can complete. And what about the Perfected weapons? With the one exception of the destro, the normal and Perfected weapons are barely any different.

And this is fine. It doesn't take anything away from me that people can have normal weapons that are almost as good as the Perfected weapons that I got after spending countless hours progressing through vAS +2.

As for regrinding Perfected Maelstrom weapons... if you don't want to, don't do it. Under my proposal, your existing weapons aren't being nerfed in any way, so why not just keep using them? Now, if you absolutely must chase after BiS (an extra 129 spell damage on a back bar is not going to make much of a difference in the first place), then, ok, you'll have to regrind, but how is that any different than people having to acquire whatever is the latest trinket each patch? Finally, I got my Maelstrom weapons years ago, back in the days when weapons weren't even guaranteed from the final chest. These days, you get guaranteed drops and transmutation and people still call it a grind? Hah!

Trials aren't very pug friendly so it makes sense that imperfect items would be added to it as an incentive for people to at least play them on normal. Dragonstar Arena only require 4 players and although a queue would be nice it is not too hard to get a vet group going to farm master weapons. Maelstrom Arena now has a save system so one can take their time completing it.

Regardless of your past efforts where Maelstrom rng was more cancerous the fact remains that getting a specific item is still a hassle. I completed the arena more than a hundred times and I have only ever obtained two fire staves. The thing that makes your proposal very different is that I'm not grinding new content that catches my eye I'm regrinding old content that I have already conquered (flawlessly mind you). The past efforts of everyone who has already gotten their maelstrom weapons should not have been for naught. However, I wouldn't mind if ZOS did something to alleviate the grind for others who wish to venture into the arena.

idk · August 2018

No

Vapirko wrote: »

Just give us back the 1pc set bonus please. There’s no *** reason that the hardest content in the game should yield useless weapons. One of ZOS’ most disappointing moves.

The weapons are not useless. Very much still desired. Otherwise this thread would probably not exist.

The change made gave us a choice and that choice permits us to increase our weapon damage for a brief time for skills on our other bar. Granted it does mean for destroy users there is no need to have the vMA destro on both bars but that is the only gearing aspect that has changed.

Splattercat_83 · August 2018

code65536 wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

Yes, on the condition that they actually make it harder. nMA and vMA are so different in levels of difficulty that they might as well just give you a map of the arena and your skill points for reading it. nMA should at least be a stepping stone on the path to a vMA clear.

Why? nAS and nCR are easy and do virtually nothing to prepare players for vAS HM and vCR HM.

Trinotops wrote: »

Nma is hilariously easy and doesn't really warrant a special reward, but if it means less terrible dps when I do pug dungeons, then I'm all for it.

nCR is hilariously easy, yet people can get Siroria and Relequen from there. nCoA1 is hilariously easy, yet people can get Burning Spellweave from there.

Let the "special reward" be the Perfected version.

You must not pug LOL! First time I went into nCR was with my trials guild. We did +3 in just a matter of minutes. Went in two days later with a pug to stock up on some gear and it was god awful. Just depends who you are playing with.