Sword & shield- make heavy attacks undodgeable
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Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sword and shield heavy attacks are the best, because they are the fastest and can easily be used in the heat of battle without much problem. Which is why stamina has the best pvp sustain.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.2 -
Zelos✭✭✭✭✭So if I have heavy attack from sword and board undodgeable what if someone runs knight slayer ?!
You can already run knight slayer with lightning or resto staff. That argument is null.There will be too many people who main magicka to get this pushed through. For whatever reason, people on this forum would rather see no buffs at all then the opposing spec get a buff.
Keep in mind destro staff has been buffed numerous times in the past few updates whereas skill lines like 2h are continuously being nerfed, makes zero sense why a buff like this can’t happen.
To all saying it would be “too much”;
When was the last time you died to someone who mained SnB and it wasn’t a duel?
i died yesterday to three stamdks, all with 2h and snb putting dots on me and perma stun. or was it only 2 stamdks and a sniperblade....?
Not sure how to respond to this. You dont seem like you know how you died .
Nice try, but lightning staff isn't tanky and the heavy attacks from lightning staff take a lot longer to proc, sword and board undodgeable heavy attacks are very fast proc knightslayer and a infused oblivion enchant and you can block up and be a tank with it while still dealing enough damage every heavy attack to kill players and have infinite sustain because again..
It's a fuckking heavy attack build.
Ranged shield stacking sorc vs melee snb stam dk
Equal tankiness, the lightning takes longer, but it makes sense, because you get to do it from fuckking range.
And don’t get me started on how stam builds literally can’t use 2 of the set bonuses from knight slayer because they are made for magicka classes. Like I said previously, and now have to restate, your argument is null. Nice try.
Knight slayer is max health and max magicka, which a stamina player can use?!?! A lightning staff heavy attack takes around 2.5 to 3 seconds to complete, behind the fact that you can stun the shield stacker too and that they wont have stamina sustain is completely different also the fact that vigor and rally can out heal the damage over the duration making it way less viable, a SnB heavy attack takes about 1 to 1.5 seconds to complete allowing way more pressure, tankiness, THE SKILL LINE ALSO HAS A FUCKKING DEFILE so you now can no longer heal and the attacker can spec fully into befoul, they can gap close stun you, have infinite sustain as it's a heavy attack build and every 2 seconds can deal almost 3k oblivion damage alone. How the fuckk is this argument invalid. Ranged isnt a argument when gap closes exist, then you might say "but a ranged person can LoS so the melee cant get to them" no they can't as the lightning heavy slows you while doing it, you also cant ward, heal, or even cast until the 3 second channel is done to deal 9% of the enemies max health, which can be out healed, you can be stunned by the attacker and everything. If anyone argument is wrong its yoursAeonhack - AD Stamina Nightblade - 5 Star General
CP1200
Creator and user of "Questionable" addons and game mechanics.0 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So if I have heavy attack from sword and board undodgeable what if someone runs knight slayer ?!
You can already run knight slayer with lightning or resto staff. That argument is null.There will be too many people who main magicka to get this pushed through. For whatever reason, people on this forum would rather see no buffs at all then the opposing spec get a buff.
Keep in mind destro staff has been buffed numerous times in the past few updates whereas skill lines like 2h are continuously being nerfed, makes zero sense why a buff like this can’t happen.
To all saying it would be “too much”;
When was the last time you died to someone who mained SnB and it wasn’t a duel?
i died yesterday to three stamdks, all with 2h and snb putting dots on me and perma stun. or was it only 2 stamdks and a sniperblade....?
Not sure how to respond to this. You dont seem like you know how you died .
Nice try, but lightning staff isn't tanky and the heavy attacks from lightning staff take a lot longer to proc, sword and board undodgeable heavy attacks are very fast proc knightslayer and a infused oblivion enchant and you can block up and be a tank with it while still dealing enough damage every heavy attack to kill players and have infinite sustain because again..
It's a fuckking heavy attack build.
Ranged shield stacking sorc vs melee snb stam dk
Equal tankiness, the lightning takes longer, but it makes sense, because you get to do it from fuckking range.
And don’t get me started on how stam builds literally can’t use 2 of the set bonuses from knight slayer because they are made for magicka classes. Like I said previously, and now have to restate, your argument is null. Nice try.
Knight slayer is max health and max magicka, which a stamina player can use?!?! A lightning staff heavy attack takes around 2.5 to 3 seconds to complete, behind the fact that you can stun the shield stacker too and that they wont have stamina sustain is completely different also the fact that vigor and rally can out heal the damage over the duration making it way less viable, a SnB heavy attack takes about 1 to 1.5 seconds to complete allowing way more pressure, tankiness, THE SKILL LINE ALSO HAS A FUCKKING DEFILE so you now can no longer heal and the attacker can spec fully into befoul, they can gap close stun you, have infinite sustain as it's a heavy attack build and every 2 seconds can deal almost 3k oblivion damage alone. How the fuckk is this argument invalid. Ranged isnt a argument when gap closes exist, then you might say "but a ranged person can LoS so the melee cant get to them" no they can't as the lightning heavy slows you while doing it, you also cant ward, heal, or even cast until the 3 second channel is done to deal 9% of the enemies max health, which can be out healed, you can be stunned by the attacker and everything. If anyone argument is wrong its yours
Max Health
Max Magicka
Spell Damage
The fact you’re trying to argue that the set bonuses are good for stam builds pretty much kills your credibility to argue further. Your argument is null, and your ethos is down the drain. I will no longer respond to you on this subject. Take care.3 -
Zelos✭✭✭✭✭So if I have heavy attack from sword and board undodgeable what if someone runs knight slayer ?!
You can already run knight slayer with lightning or resto staff. That argument is null.There will be too many people who main magicka to get this pushed through. For whatever reason, people on this forum would rather see no buffs at all then the opposing spec get a buff.
Keep in mind destro staff has been buffed numerous times in the past few updates whereas skill lines like 2h are continuously being nerfed, makes zero sense why a buff like this can’t happen.
To all saying it would be “too much”;
When was the last time you died to someone who mained SnB and it wasn’t a duel?
i died yesterday to three stamdks, all with 2h and snb putting dots on me and perma stun. or was it only 2 stamdks and a sniperblade....?
Not sure how to respond to this. You dont seem like you know how you died .
Nice try, but lightning staff isn't tanky and the heavy attacks from lightning staff take a lot longer to proc, sword and board undodgeable heavy attacks are very fast proc knightslayer and a infused oblivion enchant and you can block up and be a tank with it while still dealing enough damage every heavy attack to kill players and have infinite sustain because again..
It's a fuckking heavy attack build.
Ranged shield stacking sorc vs melee snb stam dk
Equal tankiness, the lightning takes longer, but it makes sense, because you get to do it from fuckking range.
And don’t get me started on how stam builds literally can’t use 2 of the set bonuses from knight slayer because they are made for magicka classes. Like I said previously, and now have to restate, your argument is null. Nice try.
Knight slayer is max health and max magicka, which a stamina player can use?!?! A lightning staff heavy attack takes around 2.5 to 3 seconds to complete, behind the fact that you can stun the shield stacker too and that they wont have stamina sustain is completely different also the fact that vigor and rally can out heal the damage over the duration making it way less viable, a SnB heavy attack takes about 1 to 1.5 seconds to complete allowing way more pressure, tankiness, THE SKILL LINE ALSO HAS A FUCKKING DEFILE so you now can no longer heal and the attacker can spec fully into befoul, they can gap close stun you, have infinite sustain as it's a heavy attack build and every 2 seconds can deal almost 3k oblivion damage alone. How the fuckk is this argument invalid. Ranged isnt a argument when gap closes exist, then you might say "but a ranged person can LoS so the melee cant get to them" no they can't as the lightning heavy slows you while doing it, you also cant ward, heal, or even cast until the 3 second channel is done to deal 9% of the enemies max health, which can be out healed, you can be stunned by the attacker and everything. If anyone argument is wrong its yours
Max Health
Max Magicka
Spell Damage
The fact you’re trying to argue that the set bonuses are good for stam builds pretty much kills your credibility to argue further. Your argument is null, and your ethos is down the drain. I will no longer respond to you on this subject. Take care.
LOL this guy is a piece of work, it what universe does stamina not USE magicka for things like cloak, purge, fossilize, the stamina wardens tremendous magicka abilities they use. I can't believe this your gonna want this change, see all the cancer people use with it and then spend the next year trying to change it back, great yep. Zos would never do this anyway, it's a infinite resource return to stamina players since again YOU WOULD NEVER MISS a resource return. What a waste of time, "my argument is null" bullshitt get real and actually play the fuckking game, before speaking on shitt you dont know anything about.Aeonhack - AD Stamina Nightblade - 5 Star General
CP1200
Creator and user of "Questionable" addons and game mechanics.2 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭S&B is BiS for stam sorc, stam dk and stam warden in CP pvp.
If you think the opposite, you are wrong and you are bad.
I'm curious to know what's your platform @templesus .
Heroic slash have the same damage than surprise attack, the difference is not even noticable. Take you stamblade and look at tooltip before saying stupidities.
@CatchMeTrolling Heroic slash spam + reverb is : minor main, minor heroism, one of the best snare, major defile and a stun. It allow you use OP bash and give you the best defense in the game. It's clearly BiS.
2h is used by everystam user because rally/FM.
I play on PS4, as noted by my signature right below every comment. And please quit saying snb is BiS, when you actually mean snb back bar. People will easily get confused by that thinking it’s BiS to go into cyrodiil and light attack ransack bash people in 1vX/XvX scenarios. Those days have been long over.
SnB is BiS as the main damage weapon aka for spammable and stun. 2h is used for the execute and for rally/FM.
As a PS4 player, you don't know what's BiS because you can't bash as easely than on PC.
Light attack/Heroic Slash/bash is best option for 1vX because while being offensive you can also immdediatly be extremely defensive by block casting better and cheaper block with Vigor.
If you think dual bleed build are good for 1vX you are totaly wrong, dual wield + bleed stack deal great damage but the defense you get is bad. This is why it's used mainly in duel or in battelgroung no CP, where the number of ennemies is limited/you have ally to heal you.
2h with wrecking blow is noob related, the damage is weak, it have a cast time and people can avoid it easely.
Because yeah, LA -> Heroic Slash -> bash deal more damage than WB with a LA. That's why S&B is so much better, you have more damage, you have minor heroism, you have minor main, you have one of the best snare, you have a stun and you have Major defile.
Not playing S&B as the main damage bar in cyrodil with a stam sorc/dk/warden is volontary playing an underperforming build.
i'm so sorry for you but look at number you will realise by yourself.Edited by Aedaryl on July 30, 2018 8:56AM1 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭S&B is BiS for stam sorc, stam dk and stam warden in CP pvp.
If you think the opposite, you are wrong and you are bad.
I'm curious to know what's your platform @templesus .
Heroic slash have the same damage than surprise attack, the difference is not even noticable. Take you stamblade and look at tooltip before saying stupidities.
@CatchMeTrolling Heroic slash spam + reverb is : minor main, minor heroism, one of the best snare, major defile and a stun. It allow you use OP bash and give you the best defense in the game. It's clearly BiS.
2h is used by everystam user because rally/FM.
I play on PS4, as noted by my signature right below every comment. And please quit saying snb is BiS, when you actually mean snb back bar. People will easily get confused by that thinking it’s BiS to go into cyrodiil and light attack ransack bash people in 1vX/XvX scenarios. Those days have been long over.
SnB is BiS as the main damage weapon aka for spammable and stun. 2h is used for the execute and for rally/FM.
As a PS4 player, you don't know what's BiS because you can't bash as easely than on PC.
Light attack/Heroic Slash/bash is best option for 1vX because while being offensive you can also immdediatly be extremely defensive by block casting better and cheaper block with Vigor.
If you think dual bleed build are good for 1vX you are totaly wrong, dual wield + bleed stack deal great damage but the defense you get is bad. This is why it's used mainly in duel or in battelgroung no CP, where the number of ennemies is limited/you have ally to heal you.
2h with wrecking blow is noob related, the damage is weak, it have a cast time and people can avoid it easely.
Because yeah, LA -> Heroic Slash -> bash deal more damage than WB with a LA. That's why S&B is so much better, you have more damage, you have minor heroism, you have minor main, you have one of the best snare, you have a stun and you have Major defile.
Not playing S&B as the main damage bar in cyrodil with a stam sorc/dk/warden is volontary playing an underperforming build.
i'm so sorry for you but look at number you will realise by yourself.
So you’re referring to PC only it’s BiS because you can bash faster? Interesting. Regardless of the fact, that still doesn’t mean you can generalize and say it’s BiS for all platforms when you just said that it’s different for console.
On console, the truly good players use 2h. The ones who are able to X with dizzying, or win duels as a 2h/Bow build, are the top notch players on the server. That’s how it is on console. Only dueling build stamdens and stamdks run SnB main.0 -
SugaComa✭✭✭✭✭
✭I only use sword n board on back bar in PvP ... But I get what the op is saying
The damage is so low what would it matter as long as the actions was recouping stamina
Personally I think heavy attacks should cost stamina and light attacks restore it but also do less damage
It's just the wrong way really0 -
Jeezye✭✭✭✭✭This thread is so full of BS. I use s/b frontbar on my stamsorc, stamdk, magblade, and backbar on magden. It is already on the edge of being overperforming compared to other weapon skill lines, but I'd say just fine. Your suggestions is completly unnessesary and would cause many troubles, wouldn't fit the lore (why the hell should s/b attacks be undodgeable?!) and make the skill line even more dominant.
It's just a bad idea over all.1 -
Vesper_BR✭✭✭Instead we should have different stats paired with different weapons on mais hand...
And if possible one of them making heavy stacks restoring Magicka....
Sb like heavy Armour could be a skill line detached from stamina/mag stereotype and be useful for both.
Maybe we could have swords increasing defense (remove the passive that already does that), axes granting weapon damage, maces making light and heavy atacks Magicka based, and daggers granting speel/weapon crit.VESPER BR - MAGICKA DRAGONKNIGHT - GRAND OVERLORD + FLAWLESS CONQUEROR (1070 CP / 01-01-2018)
XBOX ONE - NA - EBONHEART PACT BRASIL0 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »
First, you don't know what I play.
Secondly, when maths proove it and when top world player all use it, that mean it's BiS.0 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭HeroOfNone wrote: »
The difference is the resto line has no damage abilities at all. The undodgeable resto heavy is therefore justified.
But... It's dodgable
But if you want undodgable S&B then surely I can have undodgable soul harvest back right. Not like it was super unbalanced anywaysFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »
First, you don't know what I play.
Secondly, when maths proove it and when top world player all use it, that mean it's BiS.
and how do you decide who is top world player again? in a casual game with no competitive rankings, and in a game with 2 different regions plus 3 different ports?Edited by Ragnarock41 on August 7, 2018 6:48PM0 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »
First, you don't know what I play.
Secondly, when maths proove it and when top world player all use it, that mean it's BiS.
and how do you decide who is top world player again? in a casual game with no competitive rankings, and in a game with 2 different regions plus 3 different ports?
Knowing the top open worlders is one of those things....how do i put it....if you know you know. Game knows game, I can name the top players on PS4 NA without rankings leaderboards etc0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »
First, you don't know what I play.
Secondly, when maths proove it and when top world player all use it, that mean it's BiS.
and how do you decide who is top world player again? in a casual game with no competitive rankings, and in a game with 2 different regions plus 3 different ports?
Knowing the top open worlders is one of those things....how do i put it....if you know you know. Game knows game, I can name the top players on PS4 NA without rankings leaderboards etc
Again, my point stands. Everyone has their own idea about who is best and who is not. A person who hates a specific playstyle will never want to acknowledge someone's skill at playing it.. And then there are also moral choices like not wanting to use cheese, which limits certain players. All in all, you can't say who is best , but you can tell who is really damn good and who is not.0 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »
First, you don't know what I play.
Secondly, when maths proove it and when top world player all use it, that mean it's BiS.
and how do you decide who is top world player again? in a casual game with no competitive rankings, and in a game with 2 different regions plus 3 different ports?
Knowing the top open worlders is one of those things....how do i put it....if you know you know. Game knows game, I can name the top players on PS4 NA without rankings leaderboards etc
Again, my point stands. Everyone has their own idea about who is best and who is not. A person who hates a specific playstyle will never want to acknowledge someone's skill at playing it.. And then there are also moral choices like not wanting to use cheese, which limits certain players. All in all, you can't say who is best , but you can tell who is really damn good and who is not.
Yes, like I said, I can name the top players with ease. Top in my sense means top 10 of each class spec.0
