Can I Please Get an In-Depth Explanation of why Sorc is OP

Valrien · August 2018

I genuinely don't see it. They can be countered pretty well.

DuskMarine · August 2018

Valrien wrote: »

I genuinely don't see it. They can be countered pretty well.

shield stacking and the broken stun off rune cage. shields have been op forever and rune cages broken stun is fairly new with summerset and is steadily getting fixed.

Apherius · August 2018

Do not expect a detailed explanation

All you will read is " Rune cage OP nerf " without any argument.

Valrien · August 2018

DuskMarine wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

I genuinely don't see it. They can be countered pretty well.

shield stacking and the broken stun off rune cage. shields have been op forever and rune cages broken stun is fairly new with summerset and is steadily getting fixed.

Shields are easy to burst and only last 5 seconds though. All you really have to do is count to 4 and CC. Their shields will fall off, even if they CC break and you'll get a chance to hit at their health.

Plus the stamina pool is pretty low so they can only CC break so much.

Shields don't seem the reason it is OP. Rune Cage is hit or miss, both using it and being hit by it but most of the time it can be broken out of.

SilverWF · August 2018

Well, Sorcs has strong shields and strong selfheal and strong St and AOE damage
At my sorc I can do solo that things, that I can't on other my characters (in PVE).

But for PVP I still prefer my NB - coz he is much stronger there

Nervani · August 2018

I don't really play sorcs because I don't like them.
The truth is, I hate them. Well honestly, I might just dislike them a tad. Damn shieldstacking.... lovelies.

On a more serious note thought: I hereby declare this thread a nerf sorc thread

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO · August 2018

Apherius wrote: »

Do not expect a detailed explanation

All you will read is " Rune cage OP nerf " without any argument.

The waters on this one get muddied a bit when you get into the details. Most players (well, most good players) don't have a problem with Rune Cage. The problem is that Rune Cage sometimes bugs out Break Free, and players with full stamina pools are held down because of some issue in the code of the skill (I have heard that the same complaint exists for DKs Fossilize and NBs Fear).

So, we have a class with tremendous burst damage output with an effectively unbreakable CC and an execute that doesn't need to be cast in execute range, and I'm sure you can figure out why people would call them OP, even if their real complaint is a technical issue, and not a balancing issue.

Edit: Oh, and one of the most powerful shields in the game. And one of the best magicka mobility/escape skills.

Valrien · August 2018

SilverWF wrote: »

Well, Sorcs has strong shields and strong selfheal and strong St and AOE damage
At my sorc I can do solo that things, that I can't on other my characters (in PVE).

But for PVP I still prefer my NB - coz he is much stronger there

What self heal? Most of a Sorc's toolkit is outside of the Sorcerer tree (Force Pulse/Crushing, Absorb Magicka, Healing Ward, any of the Psijic skills, etc etc). Any class can use these options, or don't have to because they're already provided in their class

Actually_Goku · August 2018

They’re not OP, but rune cage definitely needs to be changed. An unblockable stun makes already high burst damage and awesome damage shields pretty darn close to it though! Makes solo playing in battlegrounds a bit of a drag, especially considering 80% of them run Sloads and overload light attacks in a 4-man tent

DuskMarine · August 2018

Valrien wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

I genuinely don't see it. They can be countered pretty well.

shield stacking and the broken stun off rune cage. shields have been op forever and rune cages broken stun is fairly new with summerset and is steadily getting fixed.

Shields are easy to burst and only last 5 seconds though. All you really have to do is count to 4 and CC. Their shields will fall off, even if they CC break and you'll get a chance to hit at their health.

Plus the stamina pool is pretty low so they can only CC break so much.

Shields don't seem the reason it is OP. Rune Cage is hit or miss, both using it and being hit by it but most of the time it can be broken out of.

you dont pvp enough then cause no their not easy to burst lol fight someone who has a 20k shield and hits the button every couple seconds. you cant kill them their damage dealing super tanks. thats the main issue that sorcs are op and rune cage isnt a hit or miss to much as its broken but as i said thats getting fixed thank god.

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO · August 2018

Actually_Goku wrote: »

They’re not OP, but rune cage definitely needs to be changed. An unblockable stun makes already high burst damage and awesome damage shields pretty darn close to it though! Makes solo playing in battlegrounds a bit of a drag, especially considering 80% of them run Sloads and overload light attacks in a 4-man tent

Keep those wings up, overload stops being a problem at that point. Also (and I know everyone says it, but it really is good advice), keep a purge on your bar if you're gonna queue solo.

Mrsinister2 · August 2018

I main a magplar so everyone except magdens seem op.

Valrien · August 2018

DuskMarine wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

I genuinely don't see it. They can be countered pretty well.

shield stacking and the broken stun off rune cage. shields have been op forever and rune cages broken stun is fairly new with summerset and is steadily getting fixed.

Shields are easy to burst and only last 5 seconds though. All you really have to do is count to 4 and CC. Their shields will fall off, even if they CC break and you'll get a chance to hit at their health.

Plus the stamina pool is pretty low so they can only CC break so much.

Shields don't seem the reason it is OP. Rune Cage is hit or miss, both using it and being hit by it but most of the time it can be broken out of.

you dont pvp enough then cause no their not easy to burst lol fight someone who has a 20k shield and hits the button every couple seconds. you cant kill them their damage dealing super tanks. thats the main issue that sorcs are op and rune cage isnt a hit or miss to much as its broken but as i said thats getting fixed thank god.

Thank you for the (not very) detailed explanation.

All that I really see here is that you don't know how to fight a Sorc, or that if they were really spamming their shield as you say then they'd be out of Magicka and after that all you'd have to do is burn them down before they regen enough to get another cast

kalarro · August 2018

My main is a stamblade. I have a sorc for any hard content I need to do easily

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO · August 2018

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

I main a magplar so everyone except magdens seem op.

I've seen some pretty hard-hitting magplars in PvP. Admittedly not as many hard-hitting magsorcs and magblades, but they can be quite dangerous.

SilverWF · August 2018

Valrien wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Well, Sorcs has strong shields and strong selfheal and strong St and AOE damage
At my sorc I can do solo that things, that I can't on other my characters (in PVE).

But for PVP I still prefer my NB - coz he is much stronger there

What self heal? Most of a Sorc's toolkit is outside of the Sorcerer tree (Force Pulse/Crushing, Absorb Magicka, Healing Ward, any of the Psijic skills, etc etc). Any class can use these options, or don't have to because they're already provided in their class

Critical Surge - it's freaking op

Apherius · August 2018

SilverWF wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Well, Sorcs has strong shields and strong selfheal and strong St and AOE damage
At my sorc I can do solo that things, that I can't on other my characters (in PVE).

But for PVP I still prefer my NB - coz he is much stronger there

What self heal? Most of a Sorc's toolkit is outside of the Sorcerer tree (Force Pulse/Crushing, Absorb Magicka, Healing Ward, any of the Psijic skills, etc etc). Any class can use these options, or don't have to because they're already provided in their class

Critical Surge - it's freaking op

In PVE, but keep in mind that nothing is better than spell power pots.

Valrien · August 2018

SilverWF wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Well, Sorcs has strong shields and strong selfheal and strong St and AOE damage
At my sorc I can do solo that things, that I can't on other my characters (in PVE).

But for PVP I still prefer my NB - coz he is much stronger there

What self heal? Most of a Sorc's toolkit is outside of the Sorcerer tree (Force Pulse/Crushing, Absorb Magicka, Healing Ward, any of the Psijic skills, etc etc). Any class can use these options, or don't have to because they're already provided in their class

Critical Surge - it's freaking op

Ehhhhhhh. In PvE maybe, but self heals don't matter as much in PvE when you realize how many sources of healing a group can have.

It's nice in Maelstrom, I guess? Effectively gives you a HoT like most classes have (except DK. It has Dragon Blood and BE) so that your healing isn't totally 0)

SilverWF · August 2018

Apherius wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Well, Sorcs has strong shields and strong selfheal and strong St and AOE damage
At my sorc I can do solo that things, that I can't on other my characters (in PVE).

But for PVP I still prefer my NB - coz he is much stronger there

What self heal? Most of a Sorc's toolkit is outside of the Sorcerer tree (Force Pulse/Crushing, Absorb Magicka, Healing Ward, any of the Psijic skills, etc etc). Any class can use these options, or don't have to because they're already provided in their class

Critical Surge - it's freaking op

In PVE, but keep in mind that nothing is better than spell power pots.

Yes, my initial post was about PVE.
For PVP sorc is meh, maybe only against baddies

brandonv516 · August 2018

I always find it funny when people mention how shields "fall off" after so many seconds.

Like people don't just cast them prematurely or as the shield becomes weaker. You guys realize recasting starts the counter over right?

Valrien · August 2018

brandonv516 wrote: »

I always find it funny when people mention how shields "fall off" after so many seconds.

Like people don't just cast them prematurely or as the shield becomes weaker. You guys realize recasting starts the counter over right?

And if you cast it too much, you run out of Magicka. Sure, you can keep refreshing it, but if you refresh it every 3 seconds or less you're not gonna have magicka or time to DPS.

Spamming shields effectively gives the opponent the upper hand. They pressure you, your shields crumble because you have no MP, and they take no damage.

Spamming shields is effectively the worst possible way to play Sorc. You have to be smart about how you use them

webrgesner · August 2018

Me and another friend of mine play magsorc and were good at it. Even we both admit rune cage is op thats why we use it. Its obvious it is op. Shield stacking is equally strong as vigor i have no problem with shields. if you cant get through a players shield your build/burst just sucks. #BRING BACK FRAG CC

Chibs · August 2018

They’re not op unless you are a bad player

Sadly most players refuse to believe that they’re not good

I used to think Sorcs were op too (back in 2015, when they were MUCH stronger) and then I eventually learned how to play my class and learned how to fight Sorcs.

Valrien · August 2018

webrgesner wrote: »

Me and another friend of mine play magsorc and were good at it. Even we both admit rune cage is op thats why we use it. Its obvious it is op. Shield stacking is equally strong as vigor i have no problem with shields. if you cant get through a players shield your build/burst just sucks. #BRING BACK FRAG CC

I miss frag CC and velocious curse.

Mrsinister2 · August 2018

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

I main a magplar so everyone except magdens seem op.

I've seen some pretty hard-hitting magplars in PvP. Admittedly not as many hard-hitting magsorcs and magblades, but they can be quite dangerous.

Yea this is true but I feel like magplar dies in alot of situations other classes can escape or reposition where we just eat all that damage til we can't spam bol any more.

Sharee · August 2018

Simply put, sorc has the ability to time multiple attacks(six, IIRC: curse fury meteor cage frag and a LA) so that they all hit at exact same time, and the ability to ensure the target is unable to block or dodge at that exact moment.

dodgehopper_ESO · August 2018

My main beef with Sorc is that they steal my kills with their rolling pack of passive executes. If the game didn't exclusively credit them with the kill it wouldn't bug me as much.

Danksta · August 2018

DuskMarine wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

I genuinely don't see it. They can be countered pretty well.

shield stacking and the broken stun off rune cage. shields have been op forever and rune cages broken stun is fairly new with summerset and is steadily getting fixed.

Shields are easy to burst and only last 5 seconds though. All you really have to do is count to 4 and CC. Their shields will fall off, even if they CC break and you'll get a chance to hit at their health.

Plus the stamina pool is pretty low so they can only CC break so much.

Shields don't seem the reason it is OP. Rune Cage is hit or miss, both using it and being hit by it but most of the time it can be broken out of.

you dont pvp enough then cause no their not easy to burst lol fight someone who has a 20k shield and hits the button every couple seconds. you cant kill them their damage dealing super tanks. thats the main issue that sorcs are op and rune cage isnt a hit or miss to much as its broken but as i said thats getting fixed thank god.

What sorc has a 20k shield in PvP???

DeadlyRecluse · August 2018

Here's why sorcs often SEEM OP, even in patches where they aren't:

In a fight against classes that rely on healing (i.e. classes that don't use cloak or shields), you see your enemies HP bar go up and down. Even if you lose, you feel like you did something. They got down to 50 percent that one time, right? It feels like there is give and take, you can tell who has momentum, etc. etc.

Many players don't register the same dynamic with sorcs, because the first 1/3 or 1/2 of their "true HP" is a castable shield--you can have good pressure on a sorc for a long fight, have them constantly on the defensive, and never touch their HP bar.

Often, even in a good/even fight against a sorc, if you lose it feels like you never damaged them. Even if you win against a sorc it seems like they take no damage, take no damage...then boom 100-0. You don't get the same easy feedback of a red line going up and down that you get from other fights.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · August 2018

Only bad players with terrible DPS complain about shield stacking. It is one of the weakest forms of damage mitigation when out numbered. Rune Cage is of course over performing on live, but its already in line for a huge nerf. Nothing else about a sorc is OP. Their mobility and defense are both shells of what they used to be, their class defining skill (frags) has been nerfed so hard that it doesnt make a lot of peoples bars at this point.

I will tell you why sorcs are perceived as OP in PVP by the masses.

First: They excel at killing bad players. Bad players fail to understand how to build for or react to a sorc burst combo, and simply fall over dead, and respawn here on the forums to complain. The forget that EVERY class has a direct counter to a sorc burst. DKs can reflect half of it with wings, Wardens can absorb half with shimmering shield, Templars can purge it away, and Nightblades can simply vanish when cursed, forcing a sorc to reset the combo. Again, bad players struggle with this because they miss the obvious signs that a sorc combo is coming, fail to do any of the above, and eat the whole thing at once when the sorc does what they were designed to do, line up burst combos.

Second: Bad players have trouble killing sorcs. They only see health bars, which on a good sorc dont move a lot. They fail to understand how, or simply dont have the damage to pressure a sorcs shields. A good player can keep a sorc in full shield spam mode, which can only last for so long. Finally, as they only see health bars, they miss the fact that ultimately the way to kill a good sorc is to pressure their stamina pool, while keeping them on the defensive.

Third: They have a lower barrier of entry to play. They are a ranged class and have pretty straight forward offensive and defensive rotations. It is certainly an easier class to pick up, get some kills and feel like you are being effective. If a brand new NB and Sorc fight, my money is prob on the sorc. If the best of the best fight, the NB will win every time.

Fourth: Low MMR BGs over value killing blows, and that is one thing that sorcs certainly excel at doing. They have a unique execute that is pretty good a kill stealing. This is really only a BG issue. If endless fury kills you in open world, you were already dead.

Sorcs are not the best 1vx class, they are not the best damage class for a PVP raid, they dont make the best healers or tanks, they dont typically win the high end dueling tournaments, and you will never see more than one in a good pre made BG group. They are a one trick pony on offense, and have good defense against a single player. Again, rune cage is overtuned (this patch only), but its one skill and the #nerfsorc nonsense has been going on for years. The only time sorc has been truly OP was from a PVE perspective shortly after they reworked pets, but that is a distant memory at this point.

JXNwarrior · August 2018

Danksta wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

I genuinely don't see it. They can be countered pretty well.

shield stacking and the broken stun off rune cage. shields have been op forever and rune cages broken stun is fairly new with summerset and is steadily getting fixed.

Shields are easy to burst and only last 5 seconds though. All you really have to do is count to 4 and CC. Their shields will fall off, even if they CC break and you'll get a chance to hit at their health.

Plus the stamina pool is pretty low so they can only CC break so much.

Shields don't seem the reason it is OP. Rune Cage is hit or miss, both using it and being hit by it but most of the time it can be broken out of.

you dont pvp enough then cause no their not easy to burst lol fight someone who has a 20k shield and hits the button every couple seconds. you cant kill them their damage dealing super tanks. thats the main issue that sorcs are op and rune cage isnt a hit or miss to much as its broken but as i said thats getting fixed thank god.

What sorc has a 20k shield in PvP???

Hardened + Dampen in CP PvP can easily hit 20k without Healing Ward