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Why hasn’t Wizards Riposte been looked at?
Skoomah
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15 seconds debuff on incoming damage. Defiles, snares, etc. all getting nerfed/cut in half next patch, but this magicka set staple is untouched. Why?
Unlimited number of targets. Nearly 100% uptime. Stam mechanics and sets get the nerf hammer but what about magicka side?
If your play style requires you to run up to apply a debuff or stun, NERF.
If your play style is to pew pew from far away. Apply your stun from max range, or apply permanent reduction to dmg, no problem, no nerf or inconsequential adjustment.
Stam brings a pistol to the fight. Mag brings a bazooka.
Edited by Skoomah on August 3, 2018 5:39PM Unlimited number of targets. Nearly 100% uptime. Stam mechanics and sets get the nerf hammer but what about magicka side?
If your play style requires you to run up to apply a debuff or stun, NERF.
If your play style is to pew pew from far away. Apply your stun from max range, or apply permanent reduction to dmg, no problem, no nerf or inconsequential adjustment.
Stam brings a pistol to the fight. Mag brings a bazooka.
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Anazasi✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm not sure you know what you are referring to. The set applies minor maim which reduces your damage output by x%. It can only proc when you do critical damage on a target. There is no defile or other stuff associated with this set.9 -
Skoomah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why is maim treated differently than defile or stun? It’s just as strong a contributor to winning a fight.Edited by Skoomah on August 3, 2018 9:43PM4 -
DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭1. I agree that Wizards Riposte needs an adjustment.
2. Your OP is essentially impossible to read and filled with apparent non sequiturs.Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub5 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I know exactly what I’m talking about. Why is maim treated differently than defile or stun? It’s just as strong a contributor to winning a fight.
because the conditions to make it trigger are way more complicated than of Fasalla or Duroks, and the debuff does not affect direct survaibility of the target.
Knightmare debuff, for example, is way stronger, because it applies minor maim on all enemies around (8 mts radius) for 5 secs, but it has no CD, so you can keep maim up 100% of time. If you add a frost enchantment it is even stronger. The thing is that since it's a BoP set, it is not as easy to find as WR.Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
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Anazasi✭✭✭✭✭
✭I know exactly what I’m talking about. Why is maim treated differently than defile or stun? It’s just as strong a contributor to winning a fight.
because it's a debuff that can be easily countered with a purge.........You should not be arguing two separate mechanics here. Debuff's and CC are not the same, while the remedy for them may be such as purge or cleanse they function differently.1 -
Skoomah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Defile can get cleansed too. Why is wizards riposte not nerfed but duroks gets the nerf? 15% reduction to damage for 15 seconds is way too long.
Why isnt their parity when it comes to nerfing Stam mechanics vs Mag mechanics.Edited by Skoomah on August 3, 2018 6:19PM8 -
Anazasi✭✭✭✭✭
✭DeadlyRecluse wrote: »1. I agree that Wizards Riposte needs an adjustment.
2. Your OP is essentially impossible to read and filled with apparent non sequiturs.
Wizards is essentially fine if there was going to any adjustment it would have to be in the form of reducing the time on the debuff, but if you look at all the sources of minor maim, you will find the time is about right for the set in relation to the other bonuses. It's not a BIS set and rarely do you find more than 1 or 2 in a group. I would rather see ice staff's casting elemental blockade but for some players that get focused more than other the set works fine.3 -
Skoomah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Don’t try to change the subject by changing the subject to some idea about ice staff mechanic. This thread is about wizards riposte. It procs all the time and the length is a way too long. It can be applied to mutilple opponents easily. Why hasn’t this set get the nerf bat yet?3 -
Lieblingsjunge✭✭✭✭✭
✭Some form of minor maim / major maim / dmg. reduction is almost alpha-omega for Light armour magicka builds that doesn't run 2 or 3 shields. Nerfing WR would essentially condemn most of the light armour magicka builds that doesn't shieldstack, to death. The alternative is to run Pirate Skelly, but the bugged animation + the defile + the cheese isn't really a favourable option either.
It could follow the same path as e.g. SPC, just proc on 6 targets at max. (If it isn't already). Although I agree that they *could* lower the duration from 15s to 12 or so.
But the set itself is helping light armour magicka builds not get 1-shot by literally everything that isn't a block and/or healbot-tank.
Edit: And since you bring up Defiles - the amount of defiles you can add to a target through all the different sources+ the cp, rendered stamina healing almost useless, as you could defile'm to a point where they wouldn't heal at all with vigour + rally for like ~10 seconds. Given how important HoTs are - for classes that doesn't have shields, Defile just rekt them.
And snares... They're being cut in half because they've been too superior for way too long + they make the game really boring for everyone. "Heh, look at you, you tiny poor soul, you dodge rolled out of my snares twice, but still snared, awww, cute". Snares should still be a thing - and there still are viable snares out there - even with the nerfs. It's just making them less destructive to classes that doesn't have all kinds of mobility.Edited by Lieblingsjunge on August 3, 2018 6:36PMIgnorance is the greatest weapon of tyranny.
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lucky_Sage✭✭✭✭✭And there is a huge difference between maim and defile one is maim isn't buffed in cp systemDC PC NA
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LegendaryMage✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wizard's Riposte hasn't been looked at because most people disagree with you about the set's effectiveness.12 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seems fine to me. Can’t say I’ve ever used the set, but I’m sure I’ve been on the receiving end several times and haven’t been bothered by it. It’s a common debuff that I would expect to have on me frequently anyway, and someone is giving up a 5pc bonus to use the set. I prefer just using a Perfected Asylum staff and getting Minor Maim, Vulnerability and Burning on demand.1 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭lucky_Sage wrote: »And there is a huge difference between maim and defile one is maim isn't buffed in cp system
Ding ding ding
Edit: and diminishing returns kinda hurts RiposteEdited by Waffennacht on August 4, 2018 4:17PM0 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Wizards isn’t even close to Durok’s. Even post nerf Duroks is much stronger than Wizards.
It’s not really a staple set either, it’s used in exactly 0 Meta builds.
@LegendaryMage nailed it.Edited by Lexxypwns on August 4, 2018 6:41PM4 -
JPcrazysquirrel3✭✭✭✭You probably wear Sload's,...and here you are complaining about Wizard's Riposte?
Lmao. Just lol, that you think Wizard's Riposte is OP and needs a nerf, and that it is comparable to defile sets like Durok's Bane.
Also, what is giving you the idea that Durok's Bane is a stamina character's set? It is a heavy armor set with bonuses that could be useful for either magicka or stamina users.
Wizard's is conditional upon it being critical damage and is intended for magicka users. It is apparently a rather niche set, at that too. Although, I admit I wear it on my magplar, but it doesn't really seem to do much of anything and I do lose out on wearing a better 5pc, as someone mentioned earlier.
A nerf on a set not a lot of players really use would be uncalled for and would just serve to direct players towards whatever the meta is and go against ZOS's attempts to make less desired sets appealing.Edited by JPcrazysquirrel3 on August 5, 2018 1:24AM"Wood Elves aren't made of wood. Sea Elves aren't made of water. M'aiq still wonders about High Elves."
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Chrlynsch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Hasn't been nerfed because it isn't on a death recap. Defensive sets tend to fly under the radar longer.Caius
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Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭100% agree. Wizards riposte debuff duration is way too strong.Wizards isn’t even close to Durok’s. Even post nerf Duroks is much stronger than Wizards.
It’s not really a staple set either, it’s used in exactly 0 Meta builds.
It´s used in a lot of sorc and templar meta builds.LegendaryMage wrote: »Wizard's Riposte hasn't been looked at because most people disagree with you about the set's effectiveness.
That being said - just because most ppl believe sth doesn´t make them correct.Edited by Derra on August 5, 2018 8:46AM<Noricum>
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Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Uptime needs a nerf. Thats all. 15 seconds is too long, and should probably proc only on direct damage hits, instead of all crits.Edited by Ragnarock41 on August 5, 2018 12:41PM0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Derra can you post one of those builds? I can’t see any situation in which Wizard’s outperforms every other set in the game.
shackle/amber + riposte (back) + asylum/master + 2 monster
for templar replace shackle amber with either a defensive or offensive set<Noricum>
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LegendaryMage✭✭✭✭✭
✭LegendaryMage wrote: »Wizard's Riposte hasn't been looked at because most people disagree with you about the set's effectiveness.
That being said - just because most ppl believe sth doesn´t make them correct.
In general, sure. In this case, no.
I'm sorry bud, but if someone doesn't have enough damage to kill someone wearing riposte, then it's the same as fighting someone who uses heroic, shade on you etc. So when you square up with someone who uses it, there's no arguments that it's overperforming.
Now just because it can inflict multiple targets with the debuff still doesn't make it OP, at most it makes it usable.
Imagine if it affected only one target somehow, it would be completely useless, no?1 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Valkyn/wizards/overwhelming is a very common magicka Templar build.https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
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Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭brandonv516 wrote: »
Wizard’s is literally the worst set in that build. I think swapping it for Sload in 5 heavy is drastically stronger.Edited by Lexxypwns on August 6, 2018 1:36AM3 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Uptime needs a nerf. Thats all. 15 seconds is too long, and should probably proc only on direct damage hits, instead of all crits.
How to make WR useless? Do not crit, build towards penetration.
Off course, for a NB it's kind of hard to do thatSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Uptime needs a nerf. Thats all. 15 seconds is too long, and should probably proc only on direct damage hits, instead of all crits.
How to make WR useless? Do not crit, build towards penetration.
Off course, for a NB it's kind of hard to do that
The best use scenario of riposte is on shield stacking light armor builds, penetration is literally useless stat to stack against them.Edited by Ragnarock41 on August 6, 2018 2:34AM1 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭brandonv516 wrote: »
Wizard’s is literally the worst set in that build. I think swapping it for Sload in 5 heavy is drastically stronger.
In a 1v1, I'd agree. In a 1v1, I think Riposte isn't very good: Minor Main Vs. a single opponent IMO is not worth a 5th piece armor bonus.
I wear Riposte mostly because my templar has zero ability to mitigate or prevent incoming damage and more often than not I am attacked by multiple players. I don't like relying on gear to do things that quite frankly should be in a class kit - especially one touted as a "Stand your ground" class with a "house."
But that's the way ESO is now.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.4 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I run a magicka Warden Support build in PvP (Shackle + Wizard´s + Bloodspawn + vMA resto). 5-1-1 light armor setup. Wizard´s Riposte is what keeps me alive basically. I´ve tried to remove WR from my build and replace it with other defensive sets, but none of them are on the same level as WR.
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