Is it in a realm of possibility that craft bag will be free one day? Or that's just too much to ask?

Lysette · August 2018

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I know, I have this with orisinium and Imperial city - I own them - so I basically paid double for it - once with the sale and once with the subscription. This is tough luck, like I said. There is always a chance, that ZOS will add something to ESO+, which will not benefit everyone. Or game enhancements, which are not of much worth to me - like costumes as level up gifts - I have those already, same with the horse, I had it already. But not ZOS is at fault here, but you, because you deem yourself entitled to be compensated for your tough luck, it was your decision to do it like that. Just live with it and forget about it.

That is ridiculous bs. Don't transform my complaint about weak incentive into a complaint about injustice.

Weak arguments like that make me wanna smash some heads with a good old Kotler-Keller.

Well, i feel the same with your complain - just pay for the bag via subscription and move on.

Katahdin · August 2018

$15/30 days = 50 cents/day.
I've never seen or did the math myself before.

There is no entertainment anywhere you can find that is cheaper than that, except maybe collecting lint.

I agree with others, they will never split it from the sub, sell it for crowns or make it free.

It's a BIG convinience item, nit necessary but very nice to have.

I just wish we could withdraw more than 200 items at a time. I need to start selling off my 55,000 alkahest

wenchmore420b14_ESO · August 2018

Let's forget Math and study History for a minute.

ESO was Never supposed to be a B2P game. It was a mandatory sub game like WoW. It was when they tried to include consoles a year after PC launch that Microsoft and Sony wouldn't work with ZoS over subscriptions and in the end ZoS removed the mandatory sub because console players would have had to pay TWO subs, ESO & Console Subs.

Due to this unexpected situation, ZoS made Subs optional, and as a result, had to make it attractive and worth the price.
Burgers & Fries for two cost more than a monthly ESO sub. It is very cheap and you get craft bag, 10% more XP, double bank space, all DLC's, double housing slots, 1500 crowns a month, 10% gold bonus, free dying system, double TV stone cap, etc.

FYI... Played since 2nd beta and subbed since March 2014, and have subbed every month, every year since. OP states how they have spent hundreds of $ on ESO and think thats enough to deserve a Craft Bag. I have spent thousands of $ probably over the last almost 5 years, (Including swag from Bethesda store), and I think the status quo is fine. Leave Craft Bag as subscription perk.
My 2 Drakes.....
Huzzah!!!

White wabbit · August 2018

Ask to be able to buy the crafting bag is like asking for sorcs to be nerfed ! Never going to happen

Elanymire · August 2018

nursingninja wrote: »

A lifetime subscription option might be nice.

There is one - keep paying.

Jokes aside the definition of a subscription is an arrangement to receive something, typically a publication, regularly by paying in advance.

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

YOU GET ALL OF THAT MONEY YOU SPEND BACK IN CROWNS.

You don’t HAVE an argument. So what you bought the DLC knowing you could get free access? every new one that comes out you get access to as well.

You get double bank and house space. You get exp and inspiration bonuses. You get to circumvent the MMO staple inventory management. ALL THIS AT THE SAME PRICE AS BUYING 1500 CROWNS A MONTH

Learn how to save money! Cumulatively I spend $1000s on food, that doesn’t mean I’m dropping $2k grocery bills once a year. THAT’S why your argument is stupid

You're telling me to learn to save money but I am saving money... By buying 21,000 crowns for $100 during sales instead of getting 10-12,000 crowns for the same amount. Your argument is stupid because you're arguing against yourself.

You're not accounting for sales. You're not accounting for the fact that ESO+ was implemented many years into its lifespan and you're not accounting for the fact that people can spend hundreds of dollars on their account over the years and get an experience that resembles a bad free2play game more than what you'd expect for that kind of money being spent.

As I pointed out in this thread, ESO's business model is worse than many free2play games and isn't remotely competitive with their competition https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/425672/elder-scrolls-onlines-business-model-sucks-compared-to-guild-wars-2-the-competition

Lol going by what youre saying a strictly single player elder scrolls is what youre after . You seem to be under the impression that zenimax are a charity and should give you for free what others pay to get. If you want it pay for it. It really is that simple.

You had to have known that theres one of these threads every other week you dont really think youre the only person whos had this line of reasoning do you? Oh right you probably do.

Nestor · August 2018

Ironically, the people who ask for a non sub crafting bag shoot themselves in the foot by asking for it. The overwhelming support for keeping it tied to a sub just reinforces ZOS's stance to keep it tied to a sub.

Bottom line, a Sub is a steady predictable stream of revenue that can be used to budget and forecast resources so game development can continue with confidence. Crown Revenues are variable, unpredictable, unreliable, and I am sure dont add up to the sub revenue total.

Anyone who knows anything about business will choose to keep the steady income stream. And offering a one time payment for the primary sub incentive will crater the sub pool. That will mean this game will no longer be fiancially viable for the Venture Capitalists that own ZOS. They will then just close the doors. Good bye ESO. The cheapskates can deny this all they want, but it does not change the underlying business model.

White wabbit · August 2018

Nestor wrote: »

Ironically, the people who ask for a non sub crafting bag shoot themselves in the foot by asking for it. The overwhelming support for keeping it tied to a sub just reinforces ZOS's stance to keep it tied to a sub.

Bottom line, a Sub is a steady predictable stream of revenue that can be used to budget and forecast resources so game development can continue with confidence. Crown Revenues are variable, unpredictable, unreliable, and I am sure dont add up to the sub revenue total.

Anyone who knows anything about business will choose to keep the steady income stream. And offering a one time payment for the primary sub incentive will crater the sub pool. That will mean this game will no longer be fiancially viable for the Venture Capitalists that own ZOS. They will then just close the doors. Good bye ESO. The cheapskates can deny this all they want, but it does not change the underlying business model.

This about Sum's it up steady income over a shaky one , no contest

Violynne · August 2018

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

ESO was Never supposed to be a B2P game. It was a mandatory sub game like WoW. It was when they tried to include consoles a year after PC launch that Microsoft and Sony wouldn't work with ZoS over subscriptions and in the end ZoS removed the mandatory sub because console players would have had to pay TWO subs, ESO & Console Subs.

This is not true.

Sony and Microsoft has zero issues with the subscription platform. I should know because I had pre-ordered the game, which came with the first month free, before the SKU was pulled from the Microsoft store.

It was the console gamers who had the issue, screaming stupid things like "I pay for Live, I'm not paying twice!" The backlash was furious, and stupidly, ZoS backed off and removed the sub requirement.

Worst decision the company made.

The reality of the situation is the game is played by more who don't spend a single dime on the game, leaving the revenue up to those who sub/make purchases throughout the year.

I firmly believe this is the reason Morrowind and Summerset came out as "chapters", and not DLC. This is the only way to get those who won't pay to pony up their share of a game they expect everyone else to pay for.

This model has never been sustainable. It reminds me of people trying to monetize the internet. Quick cash != long term business model.

anadandy · August 2018

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

Let's forget Math and study History for a minute.

ESO was Never supposed to be a B2P game. It was a mandatory sub game like WoW. It was when they tried to include consoles a year after PC launch that Microsoft and Sony wouldn't work with ZoS over subscriptions and in the end ZoS removed the mandatory sub because console players would have had to pay TWO subs, ESO & Console Subs.

Due to this unexpected situation, ZoS made Subs optional, and as a result, had to make it attractive and worth the price.
Burgers & Fries for two cost more than a monthly ESO sub. It is very cheap and you get craft bag, 10% more XP, double bank space, all DLC's, double housing slots, 1500 crowns a month, 10% gold bonus, free dying system, double TV stone cap, etc.

FYI... Played since 2nd beta and subbed since March 2014, and have subbed every month, every year since. OP states how they have spent hundreds of $ on ESO and think thats enough to deserve a Craft Bag. I have spent thousands of $ probably over the last almost 5 years, (Including swag from Bethesda store), and I think the status quo is fine. Leave Craft Bag as subscription perk.
My 2 Drakes.....
Huzzah!!!

/THREAD

White wabbit · August 2018

Violynne wrote: »

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

ESO was Never supposed to be a B2P game. It was a mandatory sub game like WoW. It was when they tried to include consoles a year after PC launch that Microsoft and Sony wouldn't work with ZoS over subscriptions and in the end ZoS removed the mandatory sub because console players would have had to pay TWO subs, ESO & Console Subs.

This is not true.

Sony and Microsoft has zero issues with the subscription platform. I should know because I had pre-ordered the game, which came with the first month free, before the SKU was pulled from the Microsoft store.

It was the console gamers who had the issue, screaming stupid things like "I pay for Live, I'm not paying twice!" The backlash was furious, and stupidly, ZoS backed off and removed the sub requirement.

Worst decision the company made.

The reality of the situation is the game is played by more who don't spend a single dime on the game, leaving the revenue up to those who sub/make purchases throughout the year.

I firmly believe this is the reason Morrowind and Summerset came out as "chapters", and not DLC. This is the only way to get those who won't pay to pony up their share of a game they expect everyone else to pay for.

This model has never been sustainable. It reminds me of people trying to monetize the internet. Quick cash != long term business model.

Yes but those who don't pay a dime keep the player base around , and no I'm not one them but if hardly anyone played it would be very boring

Hixtory · August 2018

ZeroXFF wrote: »

I'm buying every DLC since the moment I started playing ESO. It's not like I end up paying much less than the ESO+ subscribers in the end. I also bought the mobile banker and merchant for a hefty amount of crowns. And I intend to continue buying all DLCs for as long as I'm playing the game, because I want to be "up to date", and I don't want to be locked out of content if I decide to take a break and come back later. And as long as I'm playing and buying all DLCs, I don't see a good reason to be treated like a 2nd class citizen.

Maybe an alternative to getting the ESO+ sub for the craft bag would be giving access to it to everyone who purchased the latest DLC, until the next DLC is released. Since people buying all DLCs are effectively subscribers too, it would achieve the same result without punishing people who prefer the b2p model. Since it's still cheaper in the end than actually buying a sub, it's ok not having all the benefits (double bank space, exp boost, extra crates during events etc), but the craft bag would be a big QoL improvement allowing me to spend more time actually playing the game rather than moving around crafting mats to my mules.

This is a nice suggestion, but I would include 50% bank space. Not the 100% it has right now.

So If you buy the latest DLC/Chapter you get: Craft Bag+50% Bank Increase (effectively would be 360 slots).
ESO+: Craft bag, 100% bank increase, gold 10% gain, exp 10% gain, also access to free stuff for subs.

That way you get a huge QoL improvement for everyone supporting the game. While ESO+ remains better than buying just the DLC.

White wabbit · August 2018

Hixtory wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

I'm buying every DLC since the moment I started playing ESO. It's not like I end up paying much less than the ESO+ subscribers in the end. I also bought the mobile banker and merchant for a hefty amount of crowns. And I intend to continue buying all DLCs for as long as I'm playing the game, because I want to be "up to date", and I don't want to be locked out of content if I decide to take a break and come back later. And as long as I'm playing and buying all DLCs, I don't see a good reason to be treated like a 2nd class citizen.

Maybe an alternative to getting the ESO+ sub for the craft bag would be giving access to it to everyone who purchased the latest DLC, until the next DLC is released. Since people buying all DLCs are effectively subscribers too, it would achieve the same result without punishing people who prefer the b2p model. Since it's still cheaper in the end than actually buying a sub, it's ok not having all the benefits (double bank space, exp boost, extra crates during events etc), but the craft bag would be a big QoL improvement allowing me to spend more time actually playing the game rather than moving around crafting mats to my mules.

This is a nice suggestion, but I would include 50% bank space. Not the 100% it has right now.

So If you buy the latest DLC/Chapter you get: Craft Bag+50% Bank Increase (effectively would be 360 slots).
ESO+: Craft bag, 100% bank increase, gold 10% gain, exp 10% gain, also access to free stuff for subs.

That way you get a huge QoL improvement for everyone supporting the game. While ESO+ remains better than buying just the DLC.

And what about the eso plus members that also buy the chapters as they aren't dlcs

SHADOW2KK · August 2018

Ye sure, give even less reasons for people to sub by removing craft bag..

Sylosi · August 2018

Free would be a bit too much, but maybe they could sell some reduced version of it like a craft bag that holds one stack of each material in the crown store to cater to those of us for which a sub is pretty useless so are unlikely to ever buy one.

adriant1978 · August 2018

Craft bag goes free or for one time sale, I drop sub.

Salvas_Aren · August 2018

How about this?

If an ESO+ subscriber has bought DLCs, the bank space is increased over maximum by a certain amount of slots per DLC. Ofc only while subscribed.

Cheap and easy carrot for former DLC buyers.

For the crafting bag, I cannot imagine any light version of it, except the possibility for one char to use inventory mats before the bag mats. So the mastercrafter could use his inventory while other chars would make use of little amounts from the bag for crafting dailies.

max_only · August 2018

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

How about this?

If an ESO+ subscriber has bought DLCs, the bank space is increased over maximum by a certain amount of slots per DLC. Ofc only while subscribed.

Cheap and easy carrot for former DLC buyers.

For the crafting bag, I cannot imagine any light version of it, except the possibility for one char to use inventory mats before the bag mats. So the mastercrafter could use his inventory while other chars would make use of little amounts from the bag for crafting dailies.

I like the idea of each dlc purchase increasing max bank space. If you buy the dlc you get the spaces, if you sub you get the spaces for the duration of your sub.

frausty · August 2018

marc5477_ESO wrote: »

No game without subs? This has been proven wrong many times by not just gaming, but other industries as well. The key to succeeding however is to provide something that others do not like Costco services and Kirkland products, Amazon Prime perks, etc. Compare that to Walmart, Target & K-Mart. In this argument, ESO is basically Walmart pretending to be Amazon/Costco to justify subscription cost. Now obviously, Walmart and Target are no slouches, they are both doing well and making lots of money but they key to their success is they dont pretend to be something they are not... well Walmart tried, but it is failing at it (Sams Club is doing very poorly). ESO obviously, had similar issues so they went F2P at some point. But the point here is that it can work without subs a la Walmart and Target.

I appreciate your opinion of the game, you obviously love it but your money advise is very bad. This is a classic poor vs rich person argument. Pay because you love it or because you need it to live (primary needs), not because it is cheap. If you love ESO, then great, pay the sub and be happy. But if you are on the fence or you are considering paying just to relieve pain, then its better to drop the game entirely (this is a game, not a hernia). Hence why its bad business to do it this way. You lose a lot of good will.

You're wrong here I'm afraid. Unless you accept that ESO needs subscribers then you are deluding yourself. None of your examples relate to MMORPG. Granted some of the links in my post were a bit tenuous but hey I was emphasising my point rather than making one.

I'm not 100% sure of the point you are making in your response but I'll try and respond. If anyone needs ESO+ to live then they should seriously seek medical help. This is a game. I think this is a point that is often forgotten on these forums.

There is nothing in this or any other tier 1 MMORPG that suggests subscription is the wrong model. As I said in my original post you can't continue development of a game like ESO unless you have a regular, significant income.

My trade is that of an Infrastructure Design Authority. I understand what it takes to keep a multi-datacentre environment running and the finances and staff required, let alone all of the disaster recovery/business continuity systems you have to put in place that Average Joe will never see or likely comprehend. I don't know what country you live in but I'm based in the UK so I will speak about this. Just to keep the lights on for a large company, costs anything from £10m to £100m a year for the IT services, never mind building rent etc. Consider that ZOS is providing three completely separate environments for us all to benefit from then you can easily see why they need to generate income. I seriously doubt that the majority of players can afford $100 every three months for collectors editions etc and $15 is an acceptable amount to pay.

If you honestly believe that giving ZOS 50c a day is too much then I wish you well in your endeavors and hope you find something of the scale of ESO to spend your time in. However, I doubt you will

frausty · August 2018

Elanymire wrote: »

nursingninja wrote: »

A lifetime subscription option might be nice.

There is one - keep paying.

Jokes aside the definition of a subscription is an arrangement to receive something, typically a publication, regularly by paying in advance.

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

YOU GET ALL OF THAT MONEY YOU SPEND BACK IN CROWNS.

You don’t HAVE an argument. So what you bought the DLC knowing you could get free access? every new one that comes out you get access to as well.

You get double bank and house space. You get exp and inspiration bonuses. You get to circumvent the MMO staple inventory management. ALL THIS AT THE SAME PRICE AS BUYING 1500 CROWNS A MONTH

Learn how to save money! Cumulatively I spend $1000s on food, that doesn’t mean I’m dropping $2k grocery bills once a year. THAT’S why your argument is stupid

You're telling me to learn to save money but I am saving money... By buying 21,000 crowns for $100 during sales instead of getting 10-12,000 crowns for the same amount. Your argument is stupid because you're arguing against yourself.

You're not accounting for sales. You're not accounting for the fact that ESO+ was implemented many years into its lifespan and you're not accounting for the fact that people can spend hundreds of dollars on their account over the years and get an experience that resembles a bad free2play game more than what you'd expect for that kind of money being spent.

As I pointed out in this thread, ESO's business model is worse than many free2play games and isn't remotely competitive with their competition https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/425672/elder-scrolls-onlines-business-model-sucks-compared-to-guild-wars-2-the-competition

Lol going by what youre saying a strictly single player elder scrolls is what youre after . You seem to be under the impression that zenimax are a charity and should give you for free what others pay to get. If you want it pay for it. It really is that simple.

You had to have known that theres one of these threads every other week you dont really think youre the only person whos had this line of reasoning do you? Oh right you probably do.

This is a good point. Go buy Skyrim

frausty · August 2018

Violynne wrote: »

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

ESO was Never supposed to be a B2P game. It was a mandatory sub game like WoW. It was when they tried to include consoles a year after PC launch that Microsoft and Sony wouldn't work with ZoS over subscriptions and in the end ZoS removed the mandatory sub because console players would have had to pay TWO subs, ESO & Console Subs.

This is not true.

Sony and Microsoft has zero issues with the subscription platform. I should know because I had pre-ordered the game, which came with the first month free, before the SKU was pulled from the Microsoft store.

It was the console gamers who had the issue, screaming stupid things like "I pay for Live, I'm not paying twice!" The backlash was furious, and stupidly, ZoS backed off and removed the sub requirement.

Worst decision the company made.

The reality of the situation is the game is played by more who don't spend a single dime on the game, leaving the revenue up to those who sub/make purchases throughout the year.

I firmly believe this is the reason Morrowind and Summerset came out as "chapters", and not DLC. This is the only way to get those who won't pay to pony up their share of a game they expect everyone else to pay for.

This model has never been sustainable. It reminds me of people trying to monetize the internet. Quick cash != long term business model.

Simply insulting.

wenchmore420b14_ESO · August 2018

Violynne wrote: »

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

ESO was Never supposed to be a B2P game. It was a mandatory sub game like WoW. It was when they tried to include consoles a year after PC launch that Microsoft and Sony wouldn't work with ZoS over subscriptions and in the end ZoS removed the mandatory sub because console players would have had to pay TWO subs, ESO & Console Subs.

This is not true.

Sony and Microsoft has zero issues with the subscription platform. I should know because I had pre-ordered the game, which came with the first month free, before the SKU was pulled from the Microsoft store.

It was the console gamers who had the issue, screaming stupid things like "I pay for Live, I'm not paying twice!" The backlash was furious, and stupidly, ZoS backed off and removed the sub requirement.

Worst decision the company made.

The reality of the situation is the game is played by more who don't spend a single dime on the game, leaving the revenue up to those who sub/make purchases throughout the year.

I firmly believe this is the reason Morrowind and Summerset came out as "chapters", and not DLC. This is the only way to get those who won't pay to pony up their share of a game they expect everyone else to pay for.

This model has never been sustainable. It reminds me of people trying to monetize the internet. Quick cash != long term business model.

No, actually, one of the 2 were willing to forgo their sub, but the other was not. (So long ago I forgot which was which as I play PC). I was here on forums before pre-orders on console and this was a major issue with, yes, players. Why they had to pay 2 subs was not a fair option. I my self think it was a very generous gesture on ZoS's part to drop the sub for the console crowd.

As far as Morrowind and Summerset, "Chapters" are a common thing in MMO's now days thanks to WoW..

radiostar · August 2018

It seemed like the uproar over converting Vet Levels to Champs is when they went optional with the subs?

Elanymire · August 2018

frausty wrote: »

Violynne wrote: »

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

ESO was Never supposed to be a B2P game. It was a mandatory sub game like WoW. It was when they tried to include consoles a year after PC launch that Microsoft and Sony wouldn't work with ZoS over subscriptions and in the end ZoS removed the mandatory sub because console players would have had to pay TWO subs, ESO & Console Subs.

This is not true.

Sony and Microsoft has zero issues with the subscription platform. I should know because I had pre-ordered the game, which came with the first month free, before the SKU was pulled from the Microsoft store.

It was the console gamers who had the issue, screaming stupid things like "I pay for Live, I'm not paying twice!" The backlash was furious, and stupidly, ZoS backed off and removed the sub requirement.

Worst decision the company made.

The reality of the situation is the game is played by more who don't spend a single dime on the game, leaving the revenue up to those who sub/make purchases throughout the year.

I firmly believe this is the reason Morrowind and Summerset came out as "chapters", and not DLC. This is the only way to get those who won't pay to pony up their share of a game they expect everyone else to pay for.

This model has never been sustainable. It reminds me of people trying to monetize the internet. Quick cash != long term business model.

Simply insulting.

Like it or not xbox (ps players werent forced to subscribe to play online until microsoft pulled the xbox live bs which is the reason pc is still the best platform, you can play nearly all games online with no additional cost) players at least historically, used the I already subscribe to live why should i have to be forced to sub twice. Probably by those still living with their parents still. Most parents will limit the purchases made by children to birthday and Christmas presents, couple this with the fact apart from pocket money most parents (for good reason) will not spend more money on "video" games.the

Whats insulting is the fact is the fact you feel belittled by someone stating that a large majority of (any given) population feel entitled to getting free stuff. Emphasis mine.

Note unlike some i dont think that people who wont spend money are freeloaders and the game should be sub only if nothing else it provides those who do subscribe more people to group with. WOW is about the only mmo that is able to get away with forcing people to subscribe simply because of market dynamics around half the time "the customer is never wrong" scenarios are bcrap. I know because i am married to someone in customer service, who regales me with stories of the bullcrap they are forced to put up with. In 40 to 50% of cases the company did nothing wrong but due to that always right sentiment cut a deal to avoid bad publicity despite there being no wrongdoing on the company's part. Yes some are legitimate but certainly not all, not even close to all.