Is it in a realm of possibility that craft bag will be free one day? Or that's just too much to ask?

DaveDom

As the title goes... i basically quitted cuz of this.. now bare with me.

I think we all love b2p mmos cuz of the quality of the games compared to f2p mmos. But to me b2p always meant "buy once and enjoy" (unless ofcz DLCs). So now after like 2 n a half years of playing ESO i've realised how much money i actually spent on it. And ofcz quickly i realised it's faaaaaaar from a b2p game. I guess it's more like a b2p/p2p mix. Math is quite simple i suppose. 20-40$ for a base game (depending on which edition u buy) and then i probably paid like 24-26 months of ESO plus.. So that's roughly like 400$ in total. Now.. does that sound like a buy once and enjoy game to u? And of course i quickly realised how much of a pain it is to play when u don't have ESO plus (or more like a Craft bag plus..). Lots of people i knew basically paid those 15$ just for the craft bag not for DLC or any other perks. I understand the logic to put certain convenience items for a price.. but to me Craft bag seems more like a necessity not just a "convenience". I'm quite sure ZOS could make up that money from some other sources like costumes etcetc but atleast lots more people would play the game instead of quittin. Any other b2p mmo is lot more user-friendly. Most of em are just buy once and enjoy the game.. But does ESO fall in that category too? So yeah.. Isit even possible that one day it'll be a default? Or that's just way too much to ask? Too much to ask even tho people bought the game already and supported you for quite long time? I think we all love this game (even tho it has some issues with latency especially in PvP) and we'd like to carry on playing.. but for me it was a no-no when i sat down did the math and realised how much money i actually have to spend on a "b2p" game just for that dang crafting bag to be available. Food for thought (looking at ZOS) ^^

swippy

the Craft Bag is totally worth 50 cents a day to me.
it's cool that i get bonus crowns too.

VaranisArano

Yes, its too much to ask that ZOS will give up one of the major incentives for players to subscribe.

I mean, you can ask, but its vanishingly unlikely that they will do so.

Kel

I mean, in any MMO that isn't F2P, this is the case.
A good example is World of Warcraft. Not only do you have to buy the base game, but you also have to buy the expansion, as well as pay a subscription fee. On top of that, they also have a cash shop. Not really sure the point you're trying to make. Seems you're equating single-player games to MMOs. Can't use the same logic..
I find I get way more mileage from ESO than other B2P mmo's out there.

DuskMarine

DaveDom wrote: »

As the title goes... i basically quitted cuz of this.. now bare with me.

I think we all love b2p mmos cuz of the quality of the games compared to f2p mmos. But to me b2p always meant "buy once and enjoy" (unless ofcz DLCs). So now after like 2 n a half years of playing ESO i've realised how much money i actually spent on it. And ofcz quickly i realised it's faaaaaaar from a b2p game. I guess it's more like a b2p/p2p mix. Math is quite simple i suppose. 20-40$ for a base game (depending on which edition u buy) and then i probably paid like 24-26 months of ESO plus.. So that's roughly like 400$ in total. Now.. does that sound like a buy once and enjoy game to u? And of course i quickly realised how much of a pain it is to play when u don't have ESO plus (or more like a Craft bag plus..). Lots of people i knew basically paid those 15$ just for the craft bag not for DLC or any other perks. I understand the logic to put certain convenience items for a price.. but to me Craft bag seems more like a necessity not just a "convenience". I'm quite sure ZOS could make up that money from some other sources like costumes etcetc but atleast lots more people would play the game instead of quittin. Any other b2p mmo is lot more user-friendly. Most of em are just buy once and enjoy the game.. But does ESO fall in that category too? So yeah.. Isit even possible that one day it'll be a default? Or that's just way too much to ask? Too much to ask even tho people bought the game already and supported you for quite long time? I think we all love this game (even tho it has some issues with latency especially in PvP) and we'd like to carry on playing.. but for me it was a no-no when i sat down did the math and realised how much money i actually have to spend on a "b2p" game just for that dang crafting bag to be available. Food for thought (looking at ZOS) ^^

the craftbag is worth the 15$ sub pony up if you want it. its super cheap and everything you get with it you get more than your moneys worth.

DaveDom

jabrone77 wrote: »

I mean, in any MMO that isn't F2P, this is the case.
A good example is World of Warcraft. Not only do you have to buy the base game, but you also have to buy the expansion, as well as pay a subscription fee. On top of that, they also have a cash shop. Not really sure the point you're trying to make. Seems you're equating single-player games to MMOs. Can't use the same logic..
I find I get way more mileage from ESO than other B2P mmo's out there.

Hmm. Nope i'm not relating to single-player games. I'm relating more at games like GW2 let's say. U buy once. U're good to go. Unless u want some costumes or dlcs and such then it's alright. I don't see any illogical thoughts in my point. And my point was simple... why advertise your game as a B2P game when in reality it's more like a b2p + p2p (like WoW). Well i'm surprised you guys see it that way that it's normal to lock down such necessities like Craft Bag under a 15$ price tag. I kinda (after spending 400$) started looking at it as a very shady thing to do. I guess you love the game more then i do if you are defending it so much and seeing it as a completely normal thing to do oh welp. To each his own. But for me b2p must be b2p. Not some shady b2p and then realising it's actually p2p model. I'd still do some exceptions i guess. Let's say if the game would be flawless. Especially without any latency issues in PvP servers when they get crowded then i'd probably consider to keep dumping money further. But for now yea...

Mr_Walker

The only reason I have ESO+.

DaveDom

Mr_Walker wrote: »

The only reason I have ESO+.

Indeed my point lol. Lots of peeps actually buy eso+ just cuz of craft bag. Not cuz of dlc. Not cuz of other stuff. Just to open up that inventory "ban". Imagine buying a game and then realising u are so cornered that u gotta keep paying further.

marc5477_ESO

I agree with the op. They need to add the bag and find other ways to make money because honestly, I cant see this game ever gaining more subs and I image it is still losing them. I seriously doubt they even have 500k active players right now (combined), and of them, maybe 100k are paying a monthly fee, maybe less. The forum is proof of this, its not active at all and does not reflect a game that has 1m+ subs as the company boasts. This is not a knock on the game itself, but it is a knock on the marketing team who are clearly bending the truth. A game with 1m+ active players would have a much more active forum.

I think the game is ok and I get that some people love it, but I honestly dont feel like I want to play it and I am only level 12 on my highest toon (just started a f2p sub 4 days ago after skipping it post Beta testing). Its just boring and add to that, the tedium of inventory management and well... there is a reason I am here posting instead of playing.

If the game was awesome then I would understand the monthly fee but in the last 4 days all I got was an early night of sleep... From what I can tell, nothing has changed since beta in terms of gameplay. Bugs are gone, but to me, the game is still mediocre in all aspects and I cant imagine spending more than the $15 total for the copy of Morrowind I bought, never mind a monthly sub. Anything that reduces tedium at this point would be a big ++, especially for player retention and to keep new players hooked.

Kel

DaveDom wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

The only reason I have ESO+.

Indeed my point lol. Lots of peeps actually buy eso+ just cuz of craft bag. Not cuz of dlc. Not cuz of other stuff. Just to open up that inventory "ban". Imagine buying a game and then realising u are so cornered that u gotta keep paying further.

Craft bag isn't a necessity. You can get along without it just fine, you just need to manage your inventory better.
If not getting the craft bag for free made you quit ESO, your priorities are jacked. If the content isn't enough for you without the craft bag, if you can't enjoy the game knowing people who pay the subscription get a little extra perk, then good riddance I say.
You don't "need to pay futher"...it's a choice of convenience.
You made your choice.

Emma_Overload

Crafting bag doesn't need to be free, but it DOES need to be available for sale in the Crown Store.

I don't care if it's 10K crowns, it needs to be there to finally make things right for DLC purchasers who were deceived when "Tamriel Unlimited" launched!

Minyassa

I never really thought of this game as B2P, I've thought of the initial purchase as a non-returnable deposit on a rental, kinda.

Mystrius_Archaion

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Crafting bag doesn't need to be free, but it DOES need to be available for sale in the Crown Store.

I don't care if it's 10K crowns, it needs to be there to finally make things right for DLC purchasers who were deceived when "Tamriel Unlimited" launched!

Yes, it's also far too big an influence on the ESO Plus subscription decision. There needs to be more than "one single reason" to subscribe, but that is all there is. Everything else is too small a benefit or temporary while subscribed.

If they actually moved the craft bag to the crown store then they could finally make ESO Plus more worth paying for and actually get more subscribers.
For example, I'm perfectly fine just not subscribing and being very frugal with my crafting to avoid the inventory issues of not having a craft bag. I can do without the "necessary purchase" hanging over my head.

Kel

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Crafting bag doesn't need to be free, but it DOES need to be available for sale in the Crown Store.

I don't care if it's 10K crowns, it needs to be there to finally make things right for DLC purchasers who were deceived when "Tamriel Unlimited" launched!

The issue is that op doesn't want to pay, though. Read his title...free.

Two things will happen if Zos takes craft bag off of the subscription.
#1) They replace it with another perk. Players ask "Will Zos make (insert perk here) free one day?" And we're right back where we are now.
#2) They do give it away for free, or put it on the store, and mass players drop sub. As op said, right or wrong, the reasoning was "Lots of peeps actually buy eso+ just cuz of craft bag. Not cuz of dlc. Not cuz of other stuff. Just to open up that inventory "ban".

 So, why keep your sub? This causes Zos to lose money. They will not do that
.
Craft bag is for subscribers. Like it or not..

BRogueNZ

I too have spent hundreds, I chose to do so, so I can't complain.

To me, exchange rates considered, I have to think about better things that money can go toward.

I sub every few months, and I may regret saying so, that it's only to get the mats out of my bank and bags and take advantage of the experience buff to level a toon soon to be forgotten. I like the game, but I've spent enough I feel for what I am getting. As far as pvp goes its the same product I purchased at release, just worse...kind of kidding.

Acrolas

When you can purchase that furnishing without an active ESO+ subscription, then there will be room for debate.

ManwithBeard9

Double bank space is pretty nice too, don't forget double furnishings for houses.

The Crafting Bag will be free when the game sub only again.

nursingninja

A lifetime subscription option might be nice.

Mystrius_Archaion

Acrolas wrote: »

When you can purchase that furnishing without an active ESO+ subscription, then there will be room for debate.

I can purchase it while subbed and keep it after, so why can't we purchase the craft bag itself while subbed and keep it after?

You asked for this post.

MLGProPlayer

There was a time when there was no such thing as a craft bag.

You can manage fine without it. I just keep an empty bank and store all mats there. I store excess gear on mules. I subbed for a year, so I was used to the craft bag too.

If you're on PC, there are add-on to automatically push all mats to your bank:

http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info753-BankManagerRevived.html

http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1642-InventoryManager.html

max_only

The fact that people want it so badly is the reason they will never give it away for free.

Exstazik

So just some math.Eso+ is 15$ per month.Let's say 30% of the cost for the craft bag.In long term for ZOS :10 year(avr.lifetime for the game)*4,5$*12=540$.Are you willing to pay 540$ for the lifetime bag?

lagrue

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Crafting bag doesn't need to be free, but it DOES need to be available for sale in the Crown Store.

I don't care if it's 10K crowns, it needs to be there to finally make things right for DLC purchasers who were deceived when "Tamriel Unlimited" launched!

Yes, it's also far too big an influence on the ESO Plus subscription decision. There needs to be more than "one single reason" to subscribe, but that is all there is. Everything else is too small a benefit or temporary while subscribed.

So access to like 10 DLCs doesn't do it for you? Cheaper crowns per dollar doesn't do it for you? Inherent double bank space and housing space isn't enough for you? What do you people want, [removed inappropriate comment] from ZOS with every month subbed? You people ask way too much for your petty $15 a month.

Pay it or don't, but your opinions are unfounded trash and you value your money way more than it's TRUE value. What ZOS gives is currently way, way more than what $15 should be buying. Whether you agree or not isn't even up for debate - you won't find me another game out there with voluntary sub that offers as much value, it doesn't exist.

idk

swippy wrote: »

the Craft Bag is totally worth 50 cents a day to me.
it's cool that i get bonus crowns too.

While I could not read all of the OP statement since it seemed to start off thinking we should only have to buy the game and no have to pay for more.

However, in answering the title you have hit the nail on the head. It is well worth that little bit of cold hard cash.

Further, the crafting bag will no be available for free ever. Even OP seems to understand how fabulous it is. Why would Zos give it away for free? Exactly, there is no logical reason.

webrgesner

As much as ZoS charges you too much, i think craft bag is a fair deal. $15/mo is fair since craft bag is like the best thing thats ever happened in eso. You dont have to transfer things into bank and also you dont need bank space or bag space

Mystrius_Archaion

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

There was a time when there was no such thing as a craft bag.

You can manage fine without it. I just keep an empty bank and store all mats there. I store excess gear on mules. I subbed for a year, so I was used to the craft bag too.

There was a time when there were less mats and less crafting professions and less materials needed for those professions even. That time was also when I had less mats to store in stacks of 200 which I now would have over 200 stacks of 200 minimum.

The craft bag was added because the bloat of materials was getting bad. They saw a need for it and decided to monetize it too, but not in an ideal way for us but an ideal way for them to strongly encourage repeating revenue.

I just stop collecting mats if I don't have the craft bag. I do collect and refine for the useful upgrade materials that I don't already have too much of and then vendor or destroy the bars or whatever I don't actually need after refining.
It's such a waste of the developer effort to design something I barely use without the craft bag.

jcm2606

Crafting bag isn't a necessity. It is a way to promote hoarding. If you want to hoard as many crafting materials as you can, which I'm not against (I'm doing it myself now that I have the crafting bag), then pony up the cash for the crafting bag. Otherwise, you can get along just fine without it, if you're smart with your inventory management. I managed for 23 months without the crafting bag.

There is plenty of space in-game, even without spending a dime extra on the game. You just need to know how to use it effectively. A fully upgraded bank can store 240 items (480 with the sub). A fully upgraded character can store 200 items (140 without daily training). The game has 8 character slots, so have a few characters act as mules to hold your items. Assuming you have 6 mules and 2 mains, you'll have 1440 inventory slots available to you in total: 1200 in characters, 240 in bank space. Hold your gear on your mules, and dedicate the bank to crafting materials. Only hold the materials that are of value to you. Don't hoard lower level crafting mats, they have no value to you once you hit CP 160. If you have a dedicated crafter, provisioner, alchemist, or enchanter, maybe think about holding the materials for those professions on them instead of the bank.

If you can get the extra 7 character slots, to bring your total characters to 15, you have much more space available to you. An extra 1400 slots, in fact. More mules! More mains!

You can easily play without the crafting bag. You won't be able to hoard all the crafting mats you come across, but it is easily doable. Again, I managed for 23 months. Work smarter, not harder.

Mystrius_Archaion

lagrue wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Crafting bag doesn't need to be free, but it DOES need to be available for sale in the Crown Store.

I don't care if it's 10K crowns, it needs to be there to finally make things right for DLC purchasers who were deceived when "Tamriel Unlimited" launched!

Yes, it's also far too big an influence on the ESO Plus subscription decision. There needs to be more than "one single reason" to subscribe, but that is all there is. Everything else is too small a benefit or temporary while subscribed.

So access to like 10 DLCs doesn't do it for you? Cheaper crowns per dollar doesn't do it for you? Inherent double bank space and housing space isn't enough for you? You people ask way too much for your petty $15 a month.

1) I've been in MMOs since the year 2000, back when monthly subs were around $5 and got you everything. You're asking too little for your $15/month.

2) Nope, the double bank space and housing space isn't enough incentive, nor are the crowns that are not discounted versus a direct crown purchase.

3) I pay for the DLC I want directly. I feel it is worth a permanent purchase so that I always have access even if I unsub for whatever reason, usually to save just that little bit more money on the month.

Subscribing is a very poor way to "vote with your wallet" because it isn't for specific content. You buy the content directly puts a definite "more please" mark on that type of content so that they are encouraged to add more.
You know what we got more than anything with the mandatory subscriptions over the years? We got grind, grind, grind and more grind. That is the only thing that paying directly for time gets you. They need more time out of you to get more money so they make sure as hell that everything takes you as long as possible without making you quit the game outright.

Subscribing is a bad decision as a consumer. It's like when we pay for insurance we need but never use and then when we do use it they raise our rates as if we weren't paying for 15 years without ever using it; apparently, a $500 repair is not covered in the $15000 I gave my insurance company over that 15 years so the next year they charge me the usual $1000 plus $1000 to cover the $500 repair. If insurance wasn't mandated by law then I could be better off with just saving money and a loan if something big happens, but we're not allowed to do that.
Subscribing is just a bad idea because it is the same thing. They don't like steady revenue and need increasing revenue so they will find a way to drag it out and put things as separate purchase and/or raise the sub fee even if operating costs go down.

I'll vote with my wallet and pay for content that I find worth it, not content that other people want but I don't.

Acrolas

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

I can purchase it while subbed and keep it after, so why can't we purchase the craft bag itself while subbed and keep it after?

You asked for this post.

Because one is an in-game item that you spend gold on, and the other is a service rental with its own terms and conditions.

I suppose being on the forum is in itself an implicit invitation to view faulty logic. But I certainly didn't explicitly request it in this case.

idk

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

There was a time when there was no such thing as a craft bag.

You can manage fine without it. I just keep an empty bank and store all mats there. I store excess gear on mules. I subbed for a year, so I was used to the craft bag too.

The craft bag was added because the bloat of materials was getting bad. They saw a need for it and decided to monetize it too, but not in an ideal way for us but an ideal way for them to strongly encourage repeating revenue.

They monetized it in a manner that made great business sense. If the game still required subscriptions then I would expect the crafting bag to come with the subscription, as it does now.

Zos makes more revenue of 12 months subscription than they do from someone who just buys he DLCs. Having incentives for the subscription makes great sense.

AbysmalGhul

Sure, make the craft bag free, but ESO + subscriber's craft bag inventory should double every item picked up.