I have spammed Volatile Armor and Talons (both are AOE DOTs) only to watch the word "miss" appear- not actually pulling them out of cloak.

Sload breaks the cloak. Enjoy it until you can

Do you play Nightblade at all? I'm just wondering .

Certain DoTs should keep ticking to keep it consistent. Without pulling them out of Cloak. But, I think ZOS don't have the skills.

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Certain DoTs should keep ticking to keep it consistent. Without pulling them out of Cloak. But, I think ZOS don't have the skills.

Honestly, all DOTs should keep ticking while they're stealthed. But it shouldn't pull them out of their stealth.

Look at it this way- when a DK uses his reflective scales for protection- do all previously applied DOTs stop ticking on him for the duration of the wings? Nope.

The same can be said for Wardens (crystalized shield) or Sorcs (conjured ward). Just because they have their "defense mechanism" active doesn't mean that all previously applied DOTs on them are now rendered useless.

Now, if ZOS wants to make it even for everyone (to avoid nerfing NBs)- they should make all DOTs negligible for the duration of reflective scales, crystalized shield, or conjured ward.

This does make a lot of sense and I like it. If I shot you with a poison arrow and you got that poison ticking damage on you, how does it make sense that you fleeing into the shadows takes all of that away? I made you bleed, but your sneak skills made the wounds suture shut? While if I do remember right that cloak doesn't remove debuffs(correct me if I am wrong), it is very powerful to have that cheap of a purge for all DoTs as well as adding the stealth that it brings and all the bonuses that that has.

All dots should tick without revealing. Mark and det pots should reveal to the user, who can attack, but not reveal. Only ground based AoEs and reveal spells should reveal. Also casting (not attacking) in stealth shouldn't reveal either.

Maybe then reduce cost or increase duration of cloak, since they will also have to heal against dots and build more tanky.

AKA: More invisible, less invulnerable.

ak_pvp wrote: »

All dots should tick without revealing. Mark and det pots should reveal to the user, who can attack, but not reveal. Only ground based AoEs and reveal spells should reveal. Also casting (not attacking) in stealth shouldn't reveal either.

Maybe then reduce cost or increase duration of cloak, since they will also have to heal against dots and build more tanky.

AKA: More invisible, less invulnerable.

While I like this train of thought, @ak_pvp - this should also apply to DKs as well. Why doesn't a Bosmer/Khajiit StamDK benefit from a Leap while hidden? Now- if we could get the same bonus... that would be fair.

Heimpai wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

If cloak didn't surpass dots then nb's would be melted by anything.

If you want your dots to hit a nb after they cloak then bring them out immediately, cloak is the most counterable skill in the game.

You mean NBs would have to purge and/or not make "glass cannon" builds?

What do you think an assassin does? I’ll give you a hint, they don’t tank..they sneak and disappear, but i can see that you don’t want to accept that fact

However, i do agree that cloaking shouldn’t get rid of dot‘s

Let dots tick, and add increasing cost if spammed

Savos_Saren wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

I'd absolutely take this if the nightblade could cast a self heal without uncloaking. As it is sprinting, blocking, roll dodging, and casting any ability rips you from stealth. It'd reward well built nightblades (most likely those running annulment or rally) and impose a cost to countering those dots in stealth without crippling the class. Attacks should always take the nb out of cloak.

...but you don't have to sprint, block, or roll dodge while you're in stealth. No one can see you or attack you.

Kinda correct. The reason taking any action in cloak removes you from it is entirely because it would be broken if you could. However, on the opposite end of the spectrum, your dots are stopped by a nightblade cloak because it would functionally pointless if they didn't. You can do absolutely nothing to defend yourself, despite the fact that literally any aoe in the game removes you from stealth. You are asking for dots to damage cloaked nightblades. You give a good reason: it doesn't really make "sense". Howver, sense and balance are often askew.

Casting abilities while you're stealthed should pull you from stealth. I can't Dragon Leap while being "hidden" to receive a stealth bonus- so why should a NB be able to Dawnbreak or Incap me from stealth?

Uh...you actually can get a stealth bonus as a dragonknight. Your stamina based attacks get a stun in pvp. Remember the damage bonus is gone in pvp now (barring certain class passives). You can even stealth mid fight with a properly timed invisible pot (have one for health restore, lingering health restore, invisibility on my stam sorc).

Unless you thought I meant a nb should be able to attack from cloak, in which case:

ME: Attacks should always take the nb out of cloak.

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Kinda correct. The reason taking any action in cloak removes you from it is entirely because it would be broken if you could. However, on the opposite end of the spectrum, your dots are stopped by a nightblade cloak because it would functionally pointless if they didn't. You can do absolutely nothing to defend yourself, despite the fact that literally any aoe in the game removes you from stealth. You are asking for dots to damage cloaked nightblades. You give a good reason: it doesn't really make "sense". Howver, sense and balance are often askew.

Again- not all AOEs remove a NB from cloak. It's a broken mechanic.

Which aoes? As far as i am aware every single aoe in the game pulls nightblades out of cloak.

And being invisible IS the way to defend yourself.

If you cannot block, cannot roll, cannot purge and cannot heal, then having (example) Poison inject, rending, axe bleeds, or carve/brawler bleeds with no healing means dead nightblade. Also fun fact: you use a detect pot, that nb is absolutely boned.

You'd just redirect yourself behind a tree or barrier to heal... just like the rest of us have to do. Unfortunately, in the current state of cloaking- NBs just cloak until the DOTs are complete and then immediately attack again. Constant pressure and "free" heals.

No stamblade can cloak for all dots, period. If a magblade cloaks the entire duration of a dot, they're giving you 8-10 seconds of time to heal and restore resources or move to a different position. There is zero pressure doing nothing but cloaking dots, in addition to them giving up no less than 8k mag for your one dot's cost.

Uh...you actually can get a stealth bonus as a dragonknight. Your stamina based attacks get a stun in pvp. Remember the damage bonus is gone in pvp now (barring certain class passives). You can even stealth mid fight with a properly timed invisible pot (have one for health restore, lingering health restore, invisibility on my stam sorc).

Uh... a Dragon Leap stuns regardless. It doesn't mean that it's receiving a stun bonus from stealth. Hop on the PTS and compare a Dragon Leap on a Bosmer (who gets an extra 10% damage from stealth attacks) and see if he ever gets that extra 10%. Last I checked- Leap always pulls you from stealth and you never receive the extra 10% bonus.

Strawman argument. I never argued specifically leap got any bonuses. My exact words were your stamina based abilities. Ultimates do no scale with magicka or stamina (iirc they scale off total resource pools). If you as a dragonknight bosmer use an invis pot and then light attack or use an ability like uppercut, you get the bonus.

I think it is a case of hard counter. You seem to be a dk based on your replies so far, and my bet is stam (though that is an assumption, please feel free to correct me). You rely on dots to pressure until leap burst is ready. Have you considered wings is a very hard counter to mnb? They have very little in the toolkit that goes through wings at all.

If you want to stop a class' main defense from working, you need to spec into it.

For dks, it's bleeds to go through block.
For mag sorcs it is oblivion damage to go through wards.
For stam anything and mag templar it is defile to counter vigor and troll king.

For nightblades, you can slot an aoe, use a detect pot, or use drain magicka poisons to make cloak much more costly.

Has no one in this thread tried slotting detect potions? Its kinda a game changer

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

If cloak didn't surpass dots then nb's would be melted by anything.

If you want your dots to hit a nb after they cloak then bring them out immediately, cloak is the most counterable skill in the game.

You mean NBs would have to purge and/or not make "glass cannon" builds?

Nb's are mean't to be glass cannons. Their the assassination class. It is that hard to use an aoe, magelight/ camo hunter or a detect pot? Fml.

If nb's suddenly all used heavy and have 28k hp, you'd stil cry because then they'd be tanky af and still cloak every so often.

Just use a damn aoe.

aoes? any smart NB goes one way, cloaks, goes a diffrent way. so hitting with aoe's are just pure luck.
Detection, sure. Nice suggestion, to bad Zeni is catering to NBs by making a BIG notification for the NB when said detection has been used. So no, your argument is void.

Cloak definitely should not suppress DOTs while it's active. That is pretty much the definition of OP. Especially since they still have mobility while cloaked, and they can continue to regenerate magicka. There is literally no drawback to cloak as a defensive skill. Or at least increase the cost by 100% or something.

(Or I'd be happy if dk wings reflected everything for 4 seconds )