Invisibility should not equal Invunerability (and "miss vs dodge")

ManDraKE

Lets do a recap:

- Cloak used to remove DoTs, then they changed it to only suppress DoTs so the caster wouldn't have to recast the dots everytime time the NB goes to cloak
- Vigor cast didn't break cloak, then they changed it forcing NBs to cast vigor before entering cloak
- Cloak used to make heals crit, then they removed that, so they basicaly cut in half NBs healing.

Now you want DoTs to do damage while on Cloak? at this point just ask cloak to be removed from the game, they already nerfed cloak countless times, not including the bugs that broke cloak EVERY SINGLE PATCH: weapon enchantments breaking cloak, light attacks and bashes breaking cloak, channeled abilities breaking cloak, half of the DoTs on the game breaking cloak, and now the latest one: sloads breaking cloak.

Having a nighblade character on your account doesn't mean that you understand the class.

Savos_Saren

I like how Nightblades in this game will argue that the cloak mechanic isn't overpowered- yet your own class representatives acknowledge this:

"Nightblades
The Cloak-Detect play-counterplay is too extreme. Either cloak is *really* strong if a player can disappear with impunity or is *really* weak when the player can not disappear at all and their main skill feels useless. Need more of a middle ground."

This is from the class representative notes of June 7th. Located here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/418184/class-reps-meeting-notes-june-7/p1

But yeah. Argue until you're blue in the face that cloak isn't OP.

usmcjdking

The detection options outside of RML are bad. Absolutely awful.

Detection potion duration is too short.

ManDraKE

usmcjdking wrote: »

The detection options outside of RML are bad. Absolutely awful.

Detection potion duration is too short.

as long as detection pots are a hard counter to cloak, they will remain short duration (that is not actually that short, more than enought window of time to land a full combo and execute). If you can easily nulify the ability of nighblades to go into cloak during a large period of time, then there is no point in using the skill.

Plenty of "soft" counteres to cloak, the problem is people refusing to use them (or learning how to use them). For my stamina builds i've been using steel tornado and/or camo hunter on front bar, the chances of a nighblade escaping with cloak vs that are pretty slim.

Cloak was so broken for a long time that people got used to doing nothing to counter it because half of your buttons presses had a chance to break cloak somehow. People complaing about cloak is the same people running builds with 0 AoE skills, 0 cloak detection skills, inmovable speed pots on coldown, and no poisons.

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I like how Nightblades in this game will argue that the cloak mechanic isn't overpowered- yet your own class representatives acknowledge this:

"Nightblades
The Cloak-Detect play-counterplay is too extreme. Either cloak is *really* strong if a player can disappear with impunity or is *really* weak when the player can not disappear at all and their main skill feels useless. Need more of a middle ground."

This is from the class representative notes of June 7th. Located here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/418184/class-reps-meeting-notes-june-7/p1

But yeah. Argue until you're blue in the face that cloak isn't OP.

Middle ground implies some other kind of soft counters, and that doesn't have much relation with your post asking to nuke cloak to obvilion (actually, making your mDK easy mode by allowing you to constant pressure a NB while on cloak knowing that a nighblade can't outheal mDK pressure like all the other stam classes) . Also the opinion of one class representative is not going to represent the opinion of everyone, is just one guy's opinion.

Your lack of understanding of the class, in conjuction with your lack of understanding of basic mechanics like projectile travel time (reason why your chains "miss" -nothing to do with dodge mechanics-, otherwise you will be pulling people out of stealth with a single target ability), are the reasons of this post.

Savos_Saren

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I like how Nightblades in this game will argue that the cloak mechanic isn't overpowered- yet your own class representatives acknowledge this:

"Nightblades
The Cloak-Detect play-counterplay is too extreme. Either cloak is *really* strong if a player can disappear with impunity or is *really* weak when the player can not disappear at all and their main skill feels useless. Need more of a middle ground."

This is from the class representative notes of June 7th. Located here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/418184/class-reps-meeting-notes-june-7/p1

But yeah. Argue until you're blue in the face that cloak isn't OP.

Middle ground implies some other kind of soft counters, and that doesn't have much relation with your post asking to nuke cloak to obvilion (actually, making your mDK easy mode by allowing you to constant pressure a NB while on cloak knowing that a nighblade can't outheal mDK pressure like all the other stam classes) . Also the opinion of one class representative is not going to represent the opinion of everyone, is just one guy's opinion.

Your lack of understanding of the class, in conjuction with your lack of understanding of basic mechanics like projectile travel time (reason why your chains "miss" -nothing to do with dodge mechanics-, otherwise you will be pulling people out of stealth with a single target ability), are the reasons of this post.

It's not nuking cloak into oblivion- it's making it a fair gameplay. A NB can use cloak to sneak up on an enemy- or use it to disengage a fight. The "disengage" part is where cloak is OP. Instead of disengaging and using line of sight in order to heal up- the NB gets to cloak until the DOTs stop (without losing health) and then IMMEDIATELY reengage the fight.
Again- you're blinded by an OP ability that needs to be reworked.

ak_pvp

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Kinda correct. The reason taking any action in cloak removes you from it is entirely because it would be broken if you could. However, on the opposite end of the spectrum, your dots are stopped by a nightblade cloak because it would functionally pointless if they didn't. You can do absolutely nothing to defend yourself, despite the fact that literally any aoe in the game removes you from stealth. You are asking for dots to damage cloaked nightblades. You give a good reason: it doesn't really make "sense". Howver, sense and balance are often askew.

Again- not all AOEs remove a NB from cloak. It's a broken mechanic.

Which aoes? As far as i am aware every single aoe in the game pulls nightblades out of cloak.

And being invisible IS the way to defend yourself.

If you cannot block, cannot roll, cannot purge and cannot heal, then having (example) Poison inject, rending, axe bleeds, or carve/brawler bleeds with no healing means dead nightblade. Also fun fact: you use a detect pot, that nb is absolutely boned.

You'd just redirect yourself behind a tree or barrier to heal... just like the rest of us have to do. Unfortunately, in the current state of cloaking- NBs just cloak until the DOTs are complete and then immediately attack again. Constant pressure and "free" heals.

No stamblade can cloak for all dots, period. If a magblade cloaks the entire duration of a dot, they're giving you 8-10 seconds of time to heal and restore resources or move to a different position. There is zero pressure doing nothing but cloaking dots, in addition to them giving up no less than 8k mag for your one dot's cost.

Uh...you actually can get a stealth bonus as a dragonknight. Your stamina based attacks get a stun in pvp. Remember the damage bonus is gone in pvp now (barring certain class passives). You can even stealth mid fight with a properly timed invisible pot (have one for health restore, lingering health restore, invisibility on my stam sorc).

Uh... a Dragon Leap stuns regardless. It doesn't mean that it's receiving a stun bonus from stealth. Hop on the PTS and compare a Dragon Leap on a Bosmer (who gets an extra 10% damage from stealth attacks) and see if he ever gets that extra 10%. Last I checked- Leap always pulls you from stealth and you never receive the extra 10% bonus.

Strawman argument. I never argued specifically leap got any bonuses. My exact words were your stamina based abilities. Ultimates do no scale with magicka or stamina (iirc they scale off total resource pools). If you as a dragonknight bosmer use an invis pot and then light attack or use an ability like uppercut, you get the bonus.

I think it is a case of hard counter. You seem to be a dk based on your replies so far, and my bet is stam (though that is an assumption, please feel free to correct me). You rely on dots to pressure until leap burst is ready. Have you considered wings is a very hard counter to mnb? They have very little in the toolkit that goes through wings at all.

If you want to stop a class' main defense from working, you need to spec into it.

For dks, it's bleeds to go through block.
For mag sorcs it is oblivion damage to go through wards.
For stam anything and mag templar it is defile to counter vigor and troll king.

For nightblades, you can slot an aoe, use a detect pot, or use drain magicka poisons to make cloak much more costly.

Not really. Every playstyle has a block or dodge killer of some sort. Be it dots or unblockable damages, and then hard counters like certain CCs and bleeds also exist

Cloak has... AoEs only, which everyone knows is a bad mechanic to break cloak that is in favor of the NB. Same with reveals. The only solid counter are det pots and mark, and you have to either give up your class or a potion. And det pots only last 15s. Its also a hard counter which is bad design too.

thankyourat

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I like how Nightblades in this game will argue that the cloak mechanic isn't overpowered- yet your own class representatives acknowledge this:

"Nightblades
The Cloak-Detect play-counterplay is too extreme. Either cloak is *really* strong if a player can disappear with impunity or is *really* weak when the player can not disappear at all and their main skill feels useless. Need more of a middle ground."

This is from the class representative notes of June 7th. Located here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/418184/class-reps-meeting-notes-june-7/p1

But yeah. Argue until you're blue in the face that cloak isn't OP.

Cloak isn't op at all. What's op is all the medium armor mobility and dodge rolling combined with cloak. I play magblade and I've taken cloak off my bar completely on both heavy and light armor builds. The reason being is cloak without snare removal is useless. Any player can snare you as a magblade and make it impossible to reposition with cloak, and there is no reason to cloak after you teleport to your shade because you are already repositioned. Not only that, but cloak stops all the pressure to your opponent. So if a nightblade is cloaking too much he won't have the pressure needed to burst you down. Cloak is overrated.

IZZEFlameLash

thankyourat wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I like how Nightblades in this game will argue that the cloak mechanic isn't overpowered- yet your own class representatives acknowledge this:

"Nightblades
The Cloak-Detect play-counterplay is too extreme. Either cloak is *really* strong if a player can disappear with impunity or is *really* weak when the player can not disappear at all and their main skill feels useless. Need more of a middle ground."

This is from the class representative notes of June 7th. Located here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/418184/class-reps-meeting-notes-june-7/p1

But yeah. Argue until you're blue in the face that cloak isn't OP.

Cloak isn't op at all. What's op is all the medium armor mobility and dodge rolling combined with cloak. I play magblade and I've taken cloak off my bar completely on both heavy and light armor builds. The reason being is cloak without snare removal is useless. Any player can snare you as a magblade and make it impossible to reposition with cloak, and there is no reason to cloak after you teleport to your shade because you are already repositioned. Not only that, but cloak stops all the pressure to your opponent. So if a nightblade is cloaking too much he won't have the pressure needed to burst you down. Cloak is overrated.

That very same Cloak allows you to force miss every single skill in the game. Even Sload's in PTS. Snare immunity, all the melee mNBs have figured out. Fully ranged builds are less likely to be subjected to snares due to the distance they can maintain and reposition themselves. Rarely do I find my ranged mNB in literal sticky snare situation unless few others showed up to help my target. Even the melee mNBs without FM have better chance at escaping than all the other classes due to how Cloak works currently which turns you into invulnerable chameleon basically. But anyways, all we are asking for is that Cloak not turning NBs into invulnerable chameleon. This way, NBs have to be really tactical instead of 'oh I messed up, time to restart the fight'. All the while other classes suffer the consequence of their messup.

Amdar_Godkiller

Cloak is the single greatest reason why I and many others quit playing Stam DK. I suggest DKs should be given a passive that gives them a detection window that's more than twice as large as normal so they do have some counterplay.



That being said, if you don't have detection pots on your wheel, then this is literally the prototypical "git gud" issue. 9 out of 10 NBs panic like headless chickens when they realize that you can see them while cloaked.

Ragnarock41

leepalmer95 wrote: »

If cloak didn't surpass dots then nb's would be melted by anything.
.

Like the rest of us do? Oh yeah, that would be totally unfair.

Ragnarock41

scipionumatia wrote: »

Has no one in this thread tried slotting detect potions? Its kinda a game changer

Its not. I'm tired of answering this question. You use a detect potion, and the nightblade will kite you cause he used a proper speed potion and can now run a lot faster than you do as a result. Besides, this is not the point. You see the nightblade or not, there is no reason for your dots to miss. Its just dumb.

Amdar_Godkiller

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

scipionumatia wrote: »

Has no one in this thread tried slotting detect potions? Its kinda a game changer

Its not. I'm tired of answering this question. You use a detect potion, and the nightblade will kite you cause he used a proper speed potion and can now run a lot faster than you do as a result. Besides, this is not the point. You see the nightblade or not, there is no reason for your dots to miss. Its just dumb.

No one can run faster than me. Always at the cap. And every skill I use snares.

Kadoin

If you honestly don't believe cloak is one of the most, if not the most OP skill in the game, then I honestly have no idea what to say, besides its time for me to go all in on NB!

Amdar_Godkiller

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

scipionumatia wrote: »

Has no one in this thread tried slotting detect potions? Its kinda a game changer

Its not. I'm tired of answering this question. You use a detect potion, and the nightblade will kite you cause he used a proper speed potion and can now run a lot faster than you do as a result. Besides, this is not the point. You see the nightblade or not, there is no reason for your dots to miss. Its just dumb.

Though for the record, I definitely do agree that cloak should never suppress dots. their needs to be an element of risk/reward tied to cloaking.

thankyourat

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I like how Nightblades in this game will argue that the cloak mechanic isn't overpowered- yet your own class representatives acknowledge this:

"Nightblades
The Cloak-Detect play-counterplay is too extreme. Either cloak is *really* strong if a player can disappear with impunity or is *really* weak when the player can not disappear at all and their main skill feels useless. Need more of a middle ground."

This is from the class representative notes of June 7th. Located here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/418184/class-reps-meeting-notes-june-7/p1

But yeah. Argue until you're blue in the face that cloak isn't OP.

Cloak isn't op at all. What's op is all the medium armor mobility and dodge rolling combined with cloak. I play magblade and I've taken cloak off my bar completely on both heavy and light armor builds. The reason being is cloak without snare removal is useless. Any player can snare you as a magblade and make it impossible to reposition with cloak, and there is no reason to cloak after you teleport to your shade because you are already repositioned. Not only that, but cloak stops all the pressure to your opponent. So if a nightblade is cloaking too much he won't have the pressure needed to burst you down. Cloak is overrated.

That very same Cloak allows you to force miss every single skill in the game. Even Sload's in PTS. Snare immunity, all the melee mNBs have figured out. Fully ranged builds are less likely to be subjected to snares due to the distance they can maintain and reposition themselves. Rarely do I find my ranged mNB in literal sticky snare situation unless few others showed up to help my target. Even the melee mNBs without FM have better chance at escaping than all the other classes due to how Cloak works currently which turns you into invulnerable chameleon basically. But anyways, all we are asking for is that Cloak not turning NBs into invulnerable chameleon. This way, NBs have to be really tactical instead of 'oh I messed up, time to restart the fight'. All the while other classes suffer the consequence of their messup.

Range magblade is always vulnerable to snares in cyrodiil because damage comes from all directions and it all passively snares you. You are never just fighting one person and this what makes cloak weak on magblade and why a lot of magblades are starting to drop the ability again. You can't really maintain range either even in destro magblade fear and death stroke are both key abilities and both melee so you are going to have to get into melee range to kill someone.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

If cloak didn't surpass dots then nb's would be melted by anything.
.

Like the rest of us do? Oh yeah, that would be totally unfair.

Not true all classes have access to either some type of purge, damage shield or major mending to help deal with dots. The only classes that don't are stamblade and stamsorc. Stamsorc has additional healing from dark deal and crit surge. Every class can claim something is unfair. as a magblade I feel wings are the most frustrating thing in the game but I'm not going to come to the forums and complain about it

Savos_Saren

thankyourat wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I like how Nightblades in this game will argue that the cloak mechanic isn't overpowered- yet your own class representatives acknowledge this:

"Nightblades
The Cloak-Detect play-counterplay is too extreme. Either cloak is *really* strong if a player can disappear with impunity or is *really* weak when the player can not disappear at all and their main skill feels useless. Need more of a middle ground."

This is from the class representative notes of June 7th. Located here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/418184/class-reps-meeting-notes-june-7/p1

But yeah. Argue until you're blue in the face that cloak isn't OP.

Cloak isn't op at all. What's op is all the medium armor mobility and dodge rolling combined with cloak. I play magblade and I've taken cloak off my bar completely on both heavy and light armor builds. The reason being is cloak without snare removal is useless. Any player can snare you as a magblade and make it impossible to reposition with cloak, and there is no reason to cloak after you teleport to your shade because you are already repositioned. Not only that, but cloak stops all the pressure to your opponent. So if a nightblade is cloaking too much he won't have the pressure needed to burst you down. Cloak is overrated.

That very same Cloak allows you to force miss every single skill in the game. Even Sload's in PTS. Snare immunity, all the melee mNBs have figured out. Fully ranged builds are less likely to be subjected to snares due to the distance they can maintain and reposition themselves. Rarely do I find my ranged mNB in literal sticky snare situation unless few others showed up to help my target. Even the melee mNBs without FM have better chance at escaping than all the other classes due to how Cloak works currently which turns you into invulnerable chameleon basically. But anyways, all we are asking for is that Cloak not turning NBs into invulnerable chameleon. This way, NBs have to be really tactical instead of 'oh I messed up, time to restart the fight'. All the while other classes suffer the consequence of their messup.

Range magblade is always vulnerable to snares in cyrodiil because damage comes from all directions and it all passively snares you. You are never just fighting one person and this what makes cloak weak on magblade and why a lot of magblades are starting to drop the ability again. You can't really maintain range either even in destro magblade fear and death stroke are both key abilities and both melee so you are going to have to get into melee range to kill someone.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

If cloak didn't surpass dots then nb's would be melted by anything.
.

Like the rest of us do? Oh yeah, that would be totally unfair.

Not true all classes have access to either some type of purge, damage shield or major mending to help deal with dots. The only classes that don't are stamblade and stamsorc. Stamsorc has additional healing from dark deal and crit surge. Every class can claim something is unfair. as a magblade I feel wings are the most frustrating thing in the game but I'm not going to come to the forums and complain about it

Brawler (2H skill), Reinforced (CP passive), Blade Cloak (DW skill), Imbue Weapon (Psijic Skill that gives the 5000 damage shield passive) and Shield Wall (SnB skill) are all stamina-based shields that StamBlades and StamSorcs can use.

Beardimus

kikkehs wrote: »

Agreed! Let dots continue to run, while NOT breaking their cloak.
.
.
.
.
.
And also add an increased cost on repeated use of cloak.

This is now officially an #NerfNB thread!

Bout time we had one, but they busy being OP on noobs at towns in Cyrodiil or clogging up the Sorcerer feedback threads so let's get in quick

Gprime31

So op has trouble with nightblades?? lol l2p

Baconlad

Cloak should do one of two things.

Allow suppression of damage WHILE cloaked AND HEALING. This way a Night blade can't cast vigor cloak and come out full health.

OR allow the Night blade to take damage through previously applied dots and heal while in cloak.

Currently you can heal in cloak and not take damage. It's a win win scenario for them and it's too strong, allowing them to build incredibly glass and survive through all but builds designed to break them.

ak_pvp

Gprime31 wrote: »

So op has trouble with nightblades?? lol l2p

So Gprime31 has trouble with nightblades being balanced?? lol l2p.

IZZEFlameLash

thankyourat wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I like how Nightblades in this game will argue that the cloak mechanic isn't overpowered- yet your own class representatives acknowledge this:

"Nightblades
The Cloak-Detect play-counterplay is too extreme. Either cloak is *really* strong if a player can disappear with impunity or is *really* weak when the player can not disappear at all and their main skill feels useless. Need more of a middle ground."

This is from the class representative notes of June 7th. Located here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/418184/class-reps-meeting-notes-june-7/p1

But yeah. Argue until you're blue in the face that cloak isn't OP.

Cloak isn't op at all. What's op is all the medium armor mobility and dodge rolling combined with cloak. I play magblade and I've taken cloak off my bar completely on both heavy and light armor builds. The reason being is cloak without snare removal is useless. Any player can snare you as a magblade and make it impossible to reposition with cloak, and there is no reason to cloak after you teleport to your shade because you are already repositioned. Not only that, but cloak stops all the pressure to your opponent. So if a nightblade is cloaking too much he won't have the pressure needed to burst you down. Cloak is overrated.

That very same Cloak allows you to force miss every single skill in the game. Even Sload's in PTS. Snare immunity, all the melee mNBs have figured out. Fully ranged builds are less likely to be subjected to snares due to the distance they can maintain and reposition themselves. Rarely do I find my ranged mNB in literal sticky snare situation unless few others showed up to help my target. Even the melee mNBs without FM have better chance at escaping than all the other classes due to how Cloak works currently which turns you into invulnerable chameleon basically. But anyways, all we are asking for is that Cloak not turning NBs into invulnerable chameleon. This way, NBs have to be really tactical instead of 'oh I messed up, time to restart the fight'. All the while other classes suffer the consequence of their messup.

Range magblade is always vulnerable to snares in cyrodiil because damage comes from all directions and it all passively snares you. You are never just fighting one person and this what makes cloak weak on magblade and why a lot of magblades are starting to drop the ability again. You can't really maintain range either even in destro magblade fear and death stroke are both key abilities and both melee so you are going to have to get into melee range to kill someone.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

If cloak didn't surpass dots then nb's would be melted by anything.
.

Like the rest of us do? Oh yeah, that would be totally unfair.

Not true all classes have access to either some type of purge, damage shield or major mending to help deal with dots. The only classes that don't are stamblade and stamsorc. Stamsorc has additional healing from dark deal and crit surge. Every class can claim something is unfair. as a magblade I feel wings are the most frustrating thing in the game but I'm not going to come to the forums and complain about it

DestroNBs have a lot easier time maintaining the range because of their toolkit. They gapclose you? Give them CC. They gapclosing on you through sprint? Good luck taking all that damage and only to find out that you moved away after Cloak. NB's ability to keep things at a range even outclasses that of Sorc. NB type of ranging, staff DKs/Templars can only dream of.

I haven't seen mNBs dropping Cloak of any shape or form. Some even use Dark Cloak if they are tank. Not on PC NA for sure. Most of better NB players slot secondary defense skills to be used as failsafe measure. Pretty sure these people will still survive very well even if the DoTs went through Cloak to damage without breaking it.

Nicko_Lps

No matter how much you complain about whineblade superiority, whineblades will find something to complain about your class more and most intensively than you can do it. They always win the forum tear contest hence the more buffs

hakan

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

No matter how much you complain about whineblade superiority, whineblades will find something to complain about your class more and most intensively than you can do it. They always win the forum tear contest hence the more buffs

so zos listens the community but at the same time they dont listen? amazing.

schrodinger's zos.

ak_pvp

hakan wrote: »

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

No matter how much you complain about whineblade superiority, whineblades will find something to complain about your class more and most intensively than you can do it. They always win the forum tear contest hence the more buffs

so zos listens the community but at the same time they dont listen? amazing.

schrodinger's zos.

They listen to the majority, but change in their own ways. Like when sorc lost frag stun within 1 patch and cried they gained the totally balanced rune cage. Then NBs cried the hardest over the cage, so its dodgable. (but not blockable) Then NBs got a free pass for sloads, others didn't.

Meanwhile DKs, templars and wardens are getting scraps and/or nerfs from above.

Feanor

I guess the reason is entirely technical. They couldn't figure out how to apply the damage without breaking cloak. Any other reason doesn't make sense.

thankyourat

Savos_Saren wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I like how Nightblades in this game will argue that the cloak mechanic isn't overpowered- yet your own class representatives acknowledge this:

"Nightblades
The Cloak-Detect play-counterplay is too extreme. Either cloak is *really* strong if a player can disappear with impunity or is *really* weak when the player can not disappear at all and their main skill feels useless. Need more of a middle ground."

This is from the class representative notes of June 7th. Located here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/418184/class-reps-meeting-notes-june-7/p1

But yeah. Argue until you're blue in the face that cloak isn't OP.

Cloak isn't op at all. What's op is all the medium armor mobility and dodge rolling combined with cloak. I play magblade and I've taken cloak off my bar completely on both heavy and light armor builds. The reason being is cloak without snare removal is useless. Any player can snare you as a magblade and make it impossible to reposition with cloak, and there is no reason to cloak after you teleport to your shade because you are already repositioned. Not only that, but cloak stops all the pressure to your opponent. So if a nightblade is cloaking too much he won't have the pressure needed to burst you down. Cloak is overrated.

That very same Cloak allows you to force miss every single skill in the game. Even Sload's in PTS. Snare immunity, all the melee mNBs have figured out. Fully ranged builds are less likely to be subjected to snares due to the distance they can maintain and reposition themselves. Rarely do I find my ranged mNB in literal sticky snare situation unless few others showed up to help my target. Even the melee mNBs without FM have better chance at escaping than all the other classes due to how Cloak works currently which turns you into invulnerable chameleon basically. But anyways, all we are asking for is that Cloak not turning NBs into invulnerable chameleon. This way, NBs have to be really tactical instead of 'oh I messed up, time to restart the fight'. All the while other classes suffer the consequence of their messup.

Range magblade is always vulnerable to snares in cyrodiil because damage comes from all directions and it all passively snares you. You are never just fighting one person and this what makes cloak weak on magblade and why a lot of magblades are starting to drop the ability again. You can't really maintain range either even in destro magblade fear and death stroke are both key abilities and both melee so you are going to have to get into melee range to kill someone.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

If cloak didn't surpass dots then nb's would be melted by anything.
.

Like the rest of us do? Oh yeah, that would be totally unfair.

Not true all classes have access to either some type of purge, damage shield or major mending to help deal with dots. The only classes that don't are stamblade and stamsorc. Stamsorc has additional healing from dark deal and crit surge. Every class can claim something is unfair. as a magblade I feel wings are the most frustrating thing in the game but I'm not going to come to the forums and complain about it

Brawler (2H skill), Reinforced (CP passive), Blade Cloak (DW skill), Imbue Weapon (Psijic Skill that gives the 5000 damage shield passive) and Shield Wall (SnB skill) are all stamina-based shields that StamBlades and StamSorcs can use.

Yes but the other classes have access to those in addition to the other abilities I've already named.

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I like how Nightblades in this game will argue that the cloak mechanic isn't overpowered- yet your own class representatives acknowledge this:

"Nightblades
The Cloak-Detect play-counterplay is too extreme. Either cloak is *really* strong if a player can disappear with impunity or is *really* weak when the player can not disappear at all and their main skill feels useless. Need more of a middle ground."

This is from the class representative notes of June 7th. Located here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/418184/class-reps-meeting-notes-june-7/p1

But yeah. Argue until you're blue in the face that cloak isn't OP.

Cloak isn't op at all. What's op is all the medium armor mobility and dodge rolling combined with cloak. I play magblade and I've taken cloak off my bar completely on both heavy and light armor builds. The reason being is cloak without snare removal is useless. Any player can snare you as a magblade and make it impossible to reposition with cloak, and there is no reason to cloak after you teleport to your shade because you are already repositioned. Not only that, but cloak stops all the pressure to your opponent. So if a nightblade is cloaking too much he won't have the pressure needed to burst you down. Cloak is overrated.

That very same Cloak allows you to force miss every single skill in the game. Even Sload's in PTS. Snare immunity, all the melee mNBs have figured out. Fully ranged builds are less likely to be subjected to snares due to the distance they can maintain and reposition themselves. Rarely do I find my ranged mNB in literal sticky snare situation unless few others showed up to help my target. Even the melee mNBs without FM have better chance at escaping than all the other classes due to how Cloak works currently which turns you into invulnerable chameleon basically. But anyways, all we are asking for is that Cloak not turning NBs into invulnerable chameleon. This way, NBs have to be really tactical instead of 'oh I messed up, time to restart the fight'. All the while other classes suffer the consequence of their messup.

Range magblade is always vulnerable to snares in cyrodiil because damage comes from all directions and it all passively snares you. You are never just fighting one person and this what makes cloak weak on magblade and why a lot of magblades are starting to drop the ability again. You can't really maintain range either even in destro magblade fear and death stroke are both key abilities and both melee so you are going to have to get into melee range to kill someone.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

If cloak didn't surpass dots then nb's would be melted by anything.
.

Like the rest of us do? Oh yeah, that would be totally unfair.

Not true all classes have access to either some type of purge, damage shield or major mending to help deal with dots. The only classes that don't are stamblade and stamsorc. Stamsorc has additional healing from dark deal and crit surge. Every class can claim something is unfair. as a magblade I feel wings are the most frustrating thing in the game but I'm not going to come to the forums and complain about it

DestroNBs have a lot easier time maintaining the range because of their toolkit. They gapclose you? Give them CC. They gapclosing on you through sprint? Good luck taking all that damage and only to find out that you moved away after Cloak. NB's ability to keep things at a range even outclasses that of Sorc. NB type of ranging, staff DKs/Templars can only dream of.

I haven't seen mNBs dropping Cloak of any shape or form. Some even use Dark Cloak if they are tank. Not on PC NA for sure. Most of better NB players slot secondary defense skills to be used as failsafe measure. Pretty sure these people will still survive very well even if the DoTs went through Cloak to damage without breaking it.

Better magblades are going the route of stacking Max Magicka again because of the changes to staffs counting as 2 set pieces. It has opened up some builds that weren't possible before. As it stands right now there is no need for Cloak on a tradition magblade build. If I'm in light I drop Cloak for blur and if I'm in heavy I drop Cloak for path. Both of those abilities benefit you much more in combat and shade is pretty the the only reposition too you need. The only build I would use Cloak on is a 2hand FM build because FM and concealed weapon actually makes Cloak a good skill. Cloak can never be a primary defense on a good tradition magblade build unless some form of snare removal is added to it's kit. Magblades will survive no problem if dots went through Cloak because alot aren't even using the ability it's stamblade that would struggle

The_Protagonist

Soooooo here we are again, with another nerf thread.

This time it's cloak.

What other abilities were scrubs saying are OP?

1. Mass Hysteria, because the break mechanic is bugged
2. Shadow Image, because a rouge play style can escape?
3. Incap, so OP
4. Impale, ranged execute sorc has a ranged execute along with a passive RNG execute
5. Ambush, becaue it's a gap closer
6. Relentless Focus Proc, because of reasons LOL

There are 9 other abilities and 2 ultimates that are not mentioned here, so should we be looking for nerf threads on those too?

L2P guys, stop posting this non-sense, really getting tired of these stupid threads, had one about ele drain nerf of all things, seems like there is some type of brain disorder epidemic going on in the forums.

Qbiken

The_Protagonist wrote: »

Soooooo here we are again, with another nerf thread.

This time it's cloak.

What other abilities were scrubs saying are OP?

1. Mass Hysteria, because the break mechanic is bugged
2. Shadow Image, because a rouge play style can escape?
3. Incap, so OP
4. Impale, ranged execute sorc has a ranged execute along with a passive RNG execute
5. Ambush, becaue it's a gap closer
6. Relentless Focus Proc, because of reasons LOL

There are 9 other abilities and 2 ultimates that are not mentioned here, so should we be looking for nerf threads on those too?

L2P guys, stop posting this non-sense, really getting tired of these stupid threads, had one about ele drain nerf of all things, seems like there is some type of brain disorder epidemic going on in the forums.

Tbh, the bugged break free mechanics on incap and fear have quite the impact, and is the main issue I die to more nightblades than I would´ve done if those were functioning properly.

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO

The_Protagonist wrote: »

Soooooo here we are again, with another nerf thread.

This time it's cloak.

What other abilities were scrubs saying are OP?

1. Mass Hysteria, because the break mechanic is bugged
2. Shadow Image, because a rouge play style can escape?
3. Incap, so OP
4. Impale, ranged execute sorc has a ranged execute along with a passive RNG execute
5. Ambush, becaue it's a gap closer
6. Relentless Focus Proc, because of reasons LOL

There are 9 other abilities and 2 ultimates that are not mentioned here, so should we be looking for nerf threads on those too?

L2P guys, stop posting this non-sense, really getting tired of these stupid threads, had one about ele drain nerf of all things, seems like there is some type of brain disorder epidemic going on in the forums.

Cool

hakan

Feanor wrote: »

I guess the reason is entirely technical. They couldn't figure out how to apply the damage without breaking cloak. Any other reason doesn't make sense.

yeah i fear that this is true