How will TES VI affect on the TES Online?

Kelces · July 2018

I bet, there will probably be a new faction accused of having 99%+ of players, who only play in this faction because of this game...

Elsonso · July 2018

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

WoW has simply graphics due to the limited zoning so you have a whole continent size maps that can hold players, npc, mobs etc.

WoW may have a continent sized map, but tech back when they made the game would not have allowed for a single huge zone. The map is broken into small zones. They just do the zone transitions, and filtering of neighboring zone content, a lot more seamlessly than ESO does.

ESO is a game that should have had more seamless zone transitions so that one could walk from Bal Foyen to Eastmarch without a single loading screen.

then the graphics would have been much lower then now. epic graphics + large dense open world with 1000s of players just doesn't work. ff14 1.0 had the best graphics any mmo could pull off with near photo realistic textures, and movement. we talking flower pots with 1000+ polygons due to shaders. all that has to load on top of players.

If FF14 1.0 did that, it should never be used as an example of anything other than being wrong. In game assets need to have limits, whether single player or multi-player. There is a place for photo-realism, but with today's hardware, games are not that place. Games, particularly MMO games, still need to be approximations, and that means limits. We have come a long way since Pong, but we are not beyond the need to approximate.

The tech used for the game needs to limit the number of players against the fidelity of the graphics against the amount of world that needs to be loaded and rendered. This is inherent to the approximation.

In WoW, as you ride your griffin from the far north part of Kalimdor to the far south part, you pass over several zones. Each of these is independent, but the game is designed to seamlessly transition you between the zones. My understanding is that the tech that they are using allows players to be in different zones without a direct performance impact because the game does not attempt to load and render the zone, or the players in that zone, until it is needed.

In ESO, Stonefalls is a separate zone and there is no direct visual interaction between players in Stonefalls and Deshaan. When you stand in Stonefalls and look into Deshaan, you are not looking into the Deshaan zone, you are looking at the Stonefalls zone's portion of Deshaan that can be seen. (When they bother to have neighboring zone information in the current zone. This is why you cannot see Davon's Watch, or Ebonheart, or the erupting volcanoes, from Vvardenfell. ZOS did not include that in the Vvardenfell zone.) You are not in the Deshaan zone, or able to see what is happening in that zone, until you pass through the loading screen.

My comment above is that ZOS should have made their game world a single map, with a virtual zone around the player to limit the extent of the world that needs to be tracked and displayed. They have to do a lot of this in Cyrodiil to keep calculations down, and I just wish they had been able to do this across all of Tamriel.

Remember that it comes down to balancing the number of players against the fidelity of the graphics against the amount of world. If they can display a zone with a couple hundred players at the current graphical fidelity against the size of a standard game zone, it is theoretically possible to do that in a seamless virtual zone world where it is possible to go from Stonefalls to Deshaan with no loading screens.

Of course, that is some serious tech and the question becomes... at what cost. I think I understand why ZOS did not go that route, and I think the decision starts with Hero Engine, but I do wish they could go that route.

ItsNebula · July 2018

idk wrote: »

ItsNebula wrote: »

Lmao ESO will die once Crowfall and Ashes Of Creation drop... both have everything ESO has and more, AND it’s actually got a dev team that cares about the game and it’s performance.

@ItsNebula

Both of those games have nothing at the moment other than some videos and words about what may be some day.

Besides both games being YEARS away and both games have merely done pre-alpha testing which means pretty much nothing.

Not to mention other MMORPGs have come out since ESO launched and people made the claim they would be ESO killers. Both flopped in a manner that had to be embarrassing for the developers.

In the end a comment that Crowfall and Ashes will be ESO killers lacks substance. Nothing meaningful to back it up.

You can already play Crowfall if youve played for it, ive put some hours into it, and even in really, REALLY early pre-alpha, the game is more enjoyable than ESO just based on performance wise.

Ashes Of Creation has a promising Dev team with a President thats dumped $30 MILLION of his OWN money into the game, where i doubt ZOS has dumped that much into developing ESO at the beginning.

Not to mention both AOC and Crowfall have what people want in a MMORPG.. PvE/P based on player choices and Houses (Guilds) choices/takings/Ownings etc. Questing based on your choices, classes and toons where you can do almost anything you want to the class (To an extent - a lot like the DS Series)

Both are also promising to be optomized for maxium performance for any type of PC rig (To an extent i would imagine)

Other games that were so called "ESO Killers" from the start didnt even look like ESO killers. Personally, from the experience ive had in Crowfall alone, it performs much better in early pre-alpha than a game FULLY in development.. which is pathetic.. on ZOS's side..

Wifeaggro13 · July 2018

Runefang wrote: »

There are so many 'Skyrim casuals' that will leave ESO for TES VI. How much they contribute to the bottom line though is unknown.

Also I expect Fallout 76 to have an impact, I know I'll be playing that heavily. I doubt I'll login to ESO outside of my vet trial runs.

This is what happens when you spend your post development dollars on making regurgitating leveling content with no lvlt increase.put money and time into emerging game systems and some vertical system. They will eventually churn the game population into complete f2p and end up like aoc

max_only · July 2018

If they pull that bs Fallout 76 is pulling, it won’t.

Azuramoonstar · July 2018

max_only wrote: »

If they pull that bs Fallout 76 is pulling, it won’t.

fall out 76 has no bs outside cringe worthy rumormongers, and drama queens.

Azuramoonstar · July 2018

lordrichter wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

WoW has simply graphics due to the limited zoning so you have a whole continent size maps that can hold players, npc, mobs etc.

WoW may have a continent sized map, but tech back when they made the game would not have allowed for a single huge zone. The map is broken into small zones. They just do the zone transitions, and filtering of neighboring zone content, a lot more seamlessly than ESO does.

ESO is a game that should have had more seamless zone transitions so that one could walk from Bal Foyen to Eastmarch without a single loading screen.

then the graphics would have been much lower then now. epic graphics + large dense open world with 1000s of players just doesn't work. ff14 1.0 had the best graphics any mmo could pull off with near photo realistic textures, and movement. we talking flower pots with 1000+ polygons due to shaders. all that has to load on top of players.

If FF14 1.0 did that, it should never be used as an example of anything other than being wrong. In game assets need to have limits, whether single player or multi-player. There is a place for photo-realism, but with today's hardware, games are not that place. Games, particularly MMO games, still need to be approximations, and that means limits. We have come a long way since Pong, but we are not beyond the need to approximate.

The tech used for the game needs to limit the number of players against the fidelity of the graphics against the amount of world that needs to be loaded and rendered. This is inherent to the approximation.

In WoW, as you ride your griffin from the far north part of Kalimdor to the far south part, you pass over several zones. Each of these is independent, but the game is designed to seamlessly transition you between the zones. My understanding is that the tech that they are using allows players to be in different zones without a direct performance impact because the game does not attempt to load and render the zone, or the players in that zone, until it is needed.

In ESO, Stonefalls is a separate zone and there is no direct visual interaction between players in Stonefalls and Deshaan. When you stand in Stonefalls and look into Deshaan, you are not looking into the Deshaan zone, you are looking at the Stonefalls zone's portion of Deshaan that can be seen. (When they bother to have neighboring zone information in the current zone. This is why you cannot see Davon's Watch, or Ebonheart, or the erupting volcanoes, from Vvardenfell. ZOS did not include that in the Vvardenfell zone.) You are not in the Deshaan zone, or able to see what is happening in that zone, until you pass through the loading screen.

My comment above is that ZOS should have made their game world a single map, with a virtual zone around the player to limit the extent of the world that needs to be tracked and displayed. They have to do a lot of this in Cyrodiil to keep calculations down, and I just wish they had been able to do this across all of Tamriel.

Remember that it comes down to balancing the number of players against the fidelity of the graphics against the amount of world. If they can display a zone with a couple hundred players at the current graphical fidelity against the size of a standard game zone, it is theoretically possible to do that in a seamless virtual zone world where it is possible to go from Stonefalls to Deshaan with no loading screens.

Of course, that is some serious tech and the question becomes... at what cost. I think I understand why ZOS did not go that route, and I think the decision starts with Hero Engine, but I do wish they could go that route.

it isn't seemless they use basic trickery such as loading hallways, and server jumping. they maps are also very barren with a lot of empty pace, and uses low poly count textures and models.

pretty much you got a game from the 2000s that looks like an early 90s n64 game with extremely limited character creator.

I think ESO does a good job, we have large dense zones filled with a good amount of life to it with branching paths that lead you do some interesting quests. it beats out WoW on the rails experience.

Olen_Mikko · July 2018

I hope it puts the final nail in eso's coffin.

Gnortranermara · July 2018

This dev team is unable to identify and fix simple bugs in the current engine (channeled heavy attacks, voice chat bugs, AOE's hitting players outside their radius, other players flickering in and out of existence, terrain texture flickering, charge abilities sending the player flying off the map, snipe stacking exploits in PvP, walls failing to load, and so on). They don't even have adequate internal Quality Assurance to prevent these things from going to the live server. The game was built by their predecessors and they're in way over their head already, just barely managing to keep it running. They certainly aren't up to the monumental task of creating a whole new engine or even porting the content of this game over to a new one.

TheUndeadAmulet · July 2018

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

TES VI won't effect ESO at all. TES VI is at least 2 years and possibly as much as 4 years away. By then ESO will have been fixed or died out on it's own.

This

TheUndeadAmulet · July 2018

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

If they pull that bs Fallout 76 is pulling, it won’t.

fall out 76 has no bs outside cringe worthy rumormongers, and drama queens.

Also this

Hammy01 · July 2018

If Tes VI is a single player game then it may take people away for a month or two but nothing long term. It would take another MMO with long term staying power to take people away from ESO long term.

TwinkleNoze · July 2018

Mureel wrote: »

I erect the spine of ew.

That literally made me laugh out loud. This one thanks you!

max_only · July 2018

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

If they pull that bs Fallout 76 is pulling, it won’t.

fall out 76 has no bs outside cringe worthy rumormongers, and drama queens.

I hate co-op games where you build a little shelter and when you are offline someone else comes by and wrecks all your work. They are very popular nowadays in the zombie genre and I can’t stand it. That’s the bs I’m talking about. I like single player, fps, or mmorpgs. That kind of game mode is anathema to me.

JJBoomer · July 2018

Who knows what effect it will have. No one can see the future. By the time ES6 comes out, TESO will either be fixed better or will have died and shut down.

As far as the whole "moving eso to a new engine is too expensive", like they literally make millions of dollars lol. Money is not the issue here. time maybe.

but really, i think, and have thought for a while that most of the work going into ESO at this point is upkeep. I mean look at all the stuff not being fixed. Yet they push out new content. They push out new content so that we won't focus on whats broken because none of that is ever going to be fixed. ESO is a revenue stream.

If ES6 has some kind of online multiplayer, then yeah, ESO will probably take a hit. but who knows, its 2-4 years away.

Epona222 · July 2018

I've managed to play many single player games since ESO was launched. I am still here. It is possible to have more than one interest at a time.

DanteYoda · July 2018

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

"Sooner or later the series will step into the nexst era of graphical quality"

Why does it need to? Bethesda games performance is notoriously iffy, I would rather they make a functional game than a pretty one and I allways will.

TESO has very good graphics for it's time. If you want crysis graphics, go play crysis. This is an unrealistic exectation to think a game with this many variables will have more advanced graphics.

People who say things like this generally have really poor computers or older consoles and don't want to update..

News flash game graphics get betting over time.. And Crysis is considered poor graphics now PC wise.. So yes if Tes 6 has crysis graphics in 2-4 years time it will be considered garbage by modern standards..

ESO has passable 4 year old graphics with updates.. To be honest its looking rather dated imo..

Girl_Number8 · July 2018

It will work so that would be pretty appealing~

DaveMoeDee · July 2018

essi2 wrote: »

TESO is not an Online version of TES. No matter how much ZOS keeps pushing that marketing angle.

TES6 will have zero negative effect(maybe a slight temporary dip in active players) on TESO.

The Creation engine does support Multiple players now though(See Fallout 76), so assuming they can scale that up they could move the ESO code to a future version of the Creation engine. Although this would take alot of time and money, which makes it unlikely.

Could be a way forward for the continuation of the game though, they will at some point have to decide whether they are making a new game and charging everyone again or if they are going to do a complete Graphical improvement pass on the game.

PS. WoW has done atleast one major graphical improvement pass, but with their cartoony style it will always look abit 'dated'.

A lot of people play ESO to bridge the gap between single players releases. I'm here as a TES completionist and will continue to play the game so long they release new content, but would take a long vacation to play TES 6. I don't play MMOs as a genre, but I also love Fallout so I might also take an extended ESO break to play FO76.

I have played ESO since beta, and it is quite clearly an online (and multiplayer) version of TES. There is no platonic form of TES that TES I-V match but ESO doesn't. They are all Elder Scrolls games. it is in the name of the game. Heck, there will soon be a mobile TES game. There is also a TES CCG. They are all TES games.

DaveMoeDee · July 2018

ItsNebula wrote: »

Lmao ESO will die once Crowfall and Ashes Of Creation drop... both have everything ESO has and more, AND it’s actually got a dev team that cares about the game and it’s performance.

They have Elder Scrolls lore?

max_only · July 2018

DanteYoda wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

"Sooner or later the series will step into the nexst era of graphical quality"

Why does it need to? Bethesda games performance is notoriously iffy, I would rather they make a functional game than a pretty one and I allways will.

TESO has very good graphics for it's time. If you want crysis graphics, go play crysis. This is an unrealistic exectation to think a game with this many variables will have more advanced graphics.

People who say things like this generally have really poor computers or older consoles and don't want to update..

News flash game graphics get betting over time.. And Crysis is considered poor graphics now PC wise.. So yes if Tes 6 has crysis graphics in 2-4 years time it will be considered garbage by modern standards..

ESO has passable 4 year old graphics with updates.. To be honest its looking rather dated imo..

The lower entry level graphics attract more casual players and they are the type to spend a burst of money for convenience and cosmetics. You can tell that they don’t cater to veteran/hardcore gamers because look at all the complaining they do on the forums.