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Disguising Vampirism - It's time
-
Gandrhulf_Harbard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »I love when people tell me to just put on a helmet, a skin, a costume or wear one of the disguises you get from quests. I am sorry but I did not spend anything less than 10 minutes in character creation screen for any of my characters only to hide my work under some helmet.
But you did spend that time in Character Creation KNOWING you were going to CHOOSE to "hide it" with Vampirism?
Joined up thinking really isn't all that strong with the entitled snowflake generation, is it?
All The Best
Had no idea what I was getting myself into back during beta. Did you?
Nope, but I've still never once whined about the outcome of a choice I made - in a game!
Oh, and a game that already has given you numerous options for you to avoid the thing you want to avoid.
All The Best
Putting on another skin or quest disguise is simply avoiding the issue.
No, the issue being avoided is the following facts:
1) Vampirism isn't mandatory.
2) There are ways to cure Vampirism if you don't like how it makes you look.
3) There are ways to hide the visual impact of Vampirism if you don't like how it makes you look.
4) Feeding daily lets means you never see the the thing that you don't like.
Anyone who says they are a Vampire for Roleplay reasons but then can't be bothered to put in the 10 mins it takes to go feed once a day is kidding themselves.
Because the ONLY RP reason to avoid feeding is that you don't like drinking blood, and guess what, you don't have to, you can walk into any major city and get cured.
All The BestThose memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.2 -
Gandrhulf_Harbard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I just don't get why it matters to anyone else if I hide my vamp skin.
That doesn't matter to me at all.
What matters is you are asking ZOS to task resources to an issue that they have already given you at least 3 solutions to.
It's like complaining you have to walk 5 miles to work.
Someone says "you've got a car", you reply "I don't like driving".
They say "use the bus/tube/train", you reply "I don't like public transport".
They say "use a taxi", you reply "no, not fair, work should come to me!".
All The BestThose memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.4 -
Gandrhulf_Harbard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Salvas_Aren wrote: »
No need to put time and effort in new costumes or mounts.
Oh wait, they sell that stuff for crowns. Hmmm, they could do this with a vampire augmentation package too?
Look they already put Vampire and Werewolf direct into the Store because too many snowflakes were complaining they had to put some effort into getting a bite.
But, a New Costume in the Store is theoretically something everyone could buy.
A "Vampire Toggle" is a much smaller potential customer base.
There's already at least 3 ways of hiding the effect of Vampirism.
Seems to me most Vampire players want "all the shineys" without ever putting in any effort.
Entitled much?
All The BestThose memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.2 -
Salvas_Aren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »I just don't get why it matters to anyone else if I hide my vamp skin.
That doesn't matter to me at all.
What matters is you are asking ZOS to task resources to an issue that they have already given you at least 3 solutions to.
It's like complaining you have to walk 5 miles to work.
Someone says "you've got a car", you reply "I don't like driving".
They say "use the bus/tube/train", you reply "I don't like public transport".
They say "use a taxi", you reply "no, not fair, work should come to me!".
All The Best
This description differs from your original *you have two choices - cope with it* argument. You change your mind for the sake of counter-arguing.
What's the problem if Zeni gives the vamps what they want if they earn good coin by doing so?
It's like
Someone says "you've got a car", you reply "I don't like driving".
They say "use the bus/tube/train", you reply "I don't like public transport".
They say "wanna have a taxi for free, idiot?" - "No, wanna pay for my taxi."3 -
Bruccius✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/427681/why-are-you-a-vampire/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/416462/class-rep-vampire-feedback-thread/p1
Look at how many people use vampirism only for the passives. A hide vampirism option is needed
Mate, you think most folk become a vampire because of the looks?
Of course not! There need to be drawbacks to being a vampire, only having positives removes any reason to even consider not becoming a vampire.
If you want to look good, then don't become a vampire, simple as that. Been that way ever since vampirism was introduced for TES players.
Be glad you're not playing Morrowind as a vampire.
We've heard this line before, and the response is the same. There are mechanical drawbacks that nobody desputes are fairly good drawbacks. Flame is one of the most common damage types in the entire game, two classes have access to it, all classes if you include flame staff, and it's in most of the content.
That should be the drawback, not arbitary looks that were introduced when ESO's vampirism is functionally similar.
Lore should also not make way for gameplay purposes.
If you don't care for the franchise or its lore, then maybe ESO's not the game for you.
You want to hide vampirism? Then wear a disguise. How long until you guys are going to complain about looking like a werewolf when you're in werewolf form?
As a lifelong elder scrolls fan, let me point out the multiple ways in which you are wrong with examples!
1. Verandis Ravenwatch, this era. Presumibly the same bloodline, allthough we dont know that, able to hide his appearence through feeding.
2. Ordo Vampyrum, Oblivion, 3rd era. Pact with Clavicus Vile, allowed them to hide in plain sight through feeding. While made specificallly for this purpose, the third example proves this is not a trait exclusive to this bloodline.
3. Clan Volkihar. 4th era. Shown to be unrecognizeable until near-starving or starved. Signs occur, not clear enough for the populace to take action.
Morrowind and Daggerfall (presumibly, I didn't actually play daggerfall as I dont want to fiddle with Dos) are the only two exceptions in the series where vampirism is unhidable and causes the population to become hostile. Verandis Ravenwatch is the clearest example this is hidable in this era which suggests the ability goes back even further.
It is possible for vampires to blend, and the ammount of paleness usually is based on bloodline, and all factors therein, including race and complexion in life, and the general air of unease is generally thought of as paranoia until further symptoms manifest themselves. This is not a Ordo Vampyrum only trait and other bloodlines which are generally less social have abilities and behavior that suits that.
Reguardless of whether or not you want to make the case that the vampirism strain shown in game is able to blend for the sake of lore or gameplay mechanics the fact remains vampirism in many different strains has a long history of infiltraiton.
So, kindly dont tell me what game is and isn't for me when I've extensively studied this. This isn't lore bowing to gameplay. This is quite the opposite. I've been playing since Oblivion, went back to play Morrowind. Dont patronize me.
Also, nobody wants to hide werewolf form. Stop being hypoerbolic.
1. Through feeding you say? I'd like some citations for that... Even if it were true, it's quite clear he'd be an exception, not the rule.
2. A pact with Vile, proper reasoning, not a toggle, see me hating on this? I don't. I'd also rather see a citation for this claim, from the countless hours I've put in Oblivion I don't recall any vampire not looking vampiric. The only time when they don't is in the early stages, when the vampirism starts to take over the body and one has to sleep to truly become a child of the night.
3. Like some citations on that one, Volkhihar Vampires are rather easy to identify, be it by guards, the Dawnguard, or Vigilants of Stendarr.
You've been playing since Oblivion, and picked up Morrowind, ESO, and presumably Skyrim? Great. Then you should, better than the people who have only played ESO, know better than that being able to ''hide'' vampirism is not something the common vampire can do.
And yeah, I know nobody wants to hide werewolf form, I'm pointing it out because togglers like to have the benefits with as few drawbacks as possible.
1. Verandis shows virtually no physical signs of affliction when he shows up the first time, but does when you show up to his castle. Given you see someone feeding on a willing servant it's heavily implied he hides it through feeding, though it's possible through illusion magic. Eitherway, it's present. Irrefutibly present, and if it's even remotely replicateable, a toggle is possible.
2. Oblivion vampires have varying degree's of facial structure change and premature aging based on stage. At stage four their jaw takes on a batlike shape. Go ahed and replay if you dont believe me. This is staved off by feeding.
3. While the only real support I have is game mechanics it is worth noting that the same occurance happens with the Vokihar bloodline, with the changes to physical appearence, more batlike jaw structure and intensity in the glowing eyes, grows more pronounced with more degree's of starvation. How the dawnguard identify vampires I've no idea but it -is- worth noting that specific quests for the Dawnguard revolve around weeding out these vampires in -spite- of the law, not with it's support. You need to directly convince a Jarl of one's existance in his court by pickpocketing a note off said vampire. That wouldn't be needed if they were slavering monsters, would it?
I played the same games you did, but it seems you have a very selective memory.[/quote]
1. So Verandis is clearly an exception to the rule, instead of the rule itself. Toggles are petty and extremely lore-breaking, as they do not provide any kind of explanation, all they do is turn it on/off. It sucks as far as lore is concerned.
2. And in this case we have a proper explanation; a pact with Vile. Not a toggle.
3. Pretty sure Harkon and his kin aren't starving, considering they literally have bodies to consume blood off of... Even then, whenever you play Skyrim, Vampires are quite easy to identifty, red eyes are a dead giveaway.
Not selective, just one that cares more for lore than for gameplay.1 -
Didaco✭✭✭✭Vulsahdaal wrote: »
Why can I look like a Valkyn Skoria gang bukkake victim but not like a normal human/elf?
Why can Bloodforge skin override my vampiric look but I can't gave a skin that overrides it with a normal one?
0 -
Vulsahdaal✭✭✭✭✭
✭Vulsahdaal wrote: »
Why can I look like a Valkyn Skoria gang bukkake victim but not like a normal human/elf?
But you can look like like a normal human/elf. Just cure the vampirism- and you get your wish.
That answer seemed so obvious, I thought that maybe I was missing something here. Thats why I asked, just to clarify.
3 -
Didaco✭✭✭✭
I thought it was obvious I was referring to being a vamp AND look normal in the process.Vulsahdaal wrote: »Vulsahdaal wrote: »
Why can I look like a Valkyn Skoria gang bukkake victim but not like a normal human/elf?
But you can look like like a normal human/elf. Just cure the vampirism- and you get your wish.
That answer seemed so obvious, I thought that maybe I was missing something here. Thats why I asked, just to clarify.
Besides, you didn't answer my question.
Repeat, why (in vampire state, just to clarifiy) can I look like LITERALLY anything but normal?
0 -
Gandrhulf_Harbard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Repeat, why (in vampire state, just to clarifiy) can I look like LITERALLY anything but normal?
Because Vampires are NOT normal?
Just a guess.
All The BestThose memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.2 -
Salvas_Aren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »
However, they are normal enough to put on skins and disguises so far.
What's the clue behind not allowing vampire to wear an alternative crown skin?
What's the point to tell Zeni how they have to make money? If they decide that such a package might sell well, how would you prevent that and why?0 -
DuskMarine✭✭✭✭✭
✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »DuskMarine wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »[
It's a glitch, and could be considered so if ZOS really wants to press the issue.
Is there any evidence at all - as in an Official ZoS post - that indicates using a costume or skin that overrides the Vamp look is an exploit?
Not that I've seen, and I read these Forums every day.
NOTE: A "glitch" is NOT the same as an "exploit" and never has been.
All The Best
"Promote, upload, transmit, encourage or take part in any activity involving hacking, cracking, phishing, taking advantage of exploits or cheats and/or distribution of counterfeit software and/or Virtual Currency or virtual items. In an effort to continuously improve the Services, You and other players discovering exploits, cheats, cracks or other inconsistencies are required to report them to ZeniMax;"
This is vague, and left intentionally so. ZOS generally likes to decide on it's own what is and isn't an exploit or a cheat. And 'taking advantage of exploits' could mean any and all glitches or any other abnormalities. Until I can see an official word from ZOS cited on the matter, I'll air on the side of caution, and act accordingly.
I'm going to leave it here as it is clear there's no real discussion or communication at all with you, and say the following:
1. We got the outfit system because people wanted customization. Hide vampirism is even older, and comes from the same vein. There is lore basis, evidence in gameplay to suggest it is possible, and so on.
2. I am willing to support this game by buying it as a paid feature.
3. Even if you disagree with making it a toggle, you have to acknowledge there is nothing stopping you from living up to your own principles. You can choose not to use it. That does not give you the right to demand others do the same, just like I dont have the right to demand you stop using 'all the best' in your posts.
dark spawn your kindve outta your mind here as the necromancer skin litterally was made by zos to hide the vamp skin. and even alcast posted about the thing months ago so clearly its not a offense >_>
Didn't know. I dont care about skins aquired from dungeon's, because I will never get them, because I refuse to put myself through hell for one skin.
all you gotta do is be a tank and have 2 competant dps and a healer. no pain required long as your in a good guild.1 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/427681/why-are-you-a-vampire/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/416462/class-rep-vampire-feedback-thread/p1
Look at how many people use vampirism only for the passives. A hide vampirism option is needed
Mate, you think most folk become a vampire because of the looks?
Of course not! There need to be drawbacks to being a vampire, only having positives removes any reason to even consider not becoming a vampire.
If you want to look good, then don't become a vampire, simple as that. Been that way ever since vampirism was introduced for TES players.
Be glad you're not playing Morrowind as a vampire.
We've heard this line before, and the response is the same. There are mechanical drawbacks that nobody desputes are fairly good drawbacks. Flame is one of the most common damage types in the entire game, two classes have access to it, all classes if you include flame staff, and it's in most of the content.
That should be the drawback, not arbitary looks that were introduced when ESO's vampirism is functionally similar.
Lore should also not make way for gameplay purposes.
If you don't care for the franchise or its lore, then maybe ESO's not the game for you.
You want to hide vampirism? Then wear a disguise. How long until you guys are going to complain about looking like a werewolf when you're in werewolf form?
As a lifelong elder scrolls fan, let me point out the multiple ways in which you are wrong with examples!
1. Verandis Ravenwatch, this era. Presumibly the same bloodline, allthough we dont know that, able to hide his appearence through feeding.
2. Ordo Vampyrum, Oblivion, 3rd era. Pact with Clavicus Vile, allowed them to hide in plain sight through feeding. While made specificallly for this purpose, the third example proves this is not a trait exclusive to this bloodline.
3. Clan Volkihar. 4th era. Shown to be unrecognizeable until near-starving or starved. Signs occur, not clear enough for the populace to take action.
Morrowind and Daggerfall (presumibly, I didn't actually play daggerfall as I dont want to fiddle with Dos) are the only two exceptions in the series where vampirism is unhidable and causes the population to become hostile. Verandis Ravenwatch is the clearest example this is hidable in this era which suggests the ability goes back even further.
It is possible for vampires to blend, and the ammount of paleness usually is based on bloodline, and all factors therein, including race and complexion in life, and the general air of unease is generally thought of as paranoia until further symptoms manifest themselves. This is not a Ordo Vampyrum only trait and other bloodlines which are generally less social have abilities and behavior that suits that.
Reguardless of whether or not you want to make the case that the vampirism strain shown in game is able to blend for the sake of lore or gameplay mechanics the fact remains vampirism in many different strains has a long history of infiltraiton.
So, kindly dont tell me what game is and isn't for me when I've extensively studied this. This isn't lore bowing to gameplay. This is quite the opposite. I've been playing since Oblivion, went back to play Morrowind. Dont patronize me.
Also, nobody wants to hide werewolf form. Stop being hypoerbolic.
1. Through feeding you say? I'd like some citations for that... Even if it were true, it's quite clear he'd be an exception, not the rule.
2. A pact with Vile, proper reasoning, not a toggle, see me hating on this? I don't. I'd also rather see a citation for this claim, from the countless hours I've put in Oblivion I don't recall any vampire not looking vampiric. The only time when they don't is in the early stages, when the vampirism starts to take over the body and one has to sleep to truly become a child of the night.
3. Like some citations on that one, Volkhihar Vampires are rather easy to identify, be it by guards, the Dawnguard, or Vigilants of Stendarr.
You've been playing since Oblivion, and picked up Morrowind, ESO, and presumably Skyrim? Great. Then you should, better than the people who have only played ESO, know better than that being able to ''hide'' vampirism is not something the common vampire can do.
And yeah, I know nobody wants to hide werewolf form, I'm pointing it out because togglers like to have the benefits with as few drawbacks as possible.
1. Verandis shows virtually no physical signs of affliction when he shows up the first time, but does when you show up to his castle. Given you see someone feeding on a willing servant it's heavily implied he hides it through feeding, though it's possible through illusion magic. Eitherway, it's present. Irrefutibly present, and if it's even remotely replicateable, a toggle is possible.
2. Oblivion vampires have varying degree's of facial structure change and premature aging based on stage. At stage four their jaw takes on a batlike shape. Go ahed and replay if you dont believe me. This is staved off by feeding.
3. While the only real support I have is game mechanics it is worth noting that the same occurance happens with the Vokihar bloodline, with the changes to physical appearence, more batlike jaw structure and intensity in the glowing eyes, grows more pronounced with more degree's of starvation. How the dawnguard identify vampires I've no idea but it -is- worth noting that specific quests for the Dawnguard revolve around weeding out these vampires in -spite- of the law, not with it's support. You need to directly convince a Jarl of one's existance in his court by pickpocketing a note off said vampire. That wouldn't be needed if they were slavering monsters, would it?
I played the same games you did, but it seems you have a very selective memory.
1. So Verandis is clearly an exception to the rule, instead of the rule itself. Toggles are petty and extremely lore-breaking, as they do not provide any kind of explanation, all they do is turn it on/off. It sucks as far as lore is concerned.
2. And in this case we have a proper explanation; a pact with Vile. Not a toggle.
3. Pretty sure Harkon and his kin aren't starving, considering they literally have bodies to consume blood off of... Even then, whenever you play Skyrim, Vampires are quite easy to identifty, red eyes are a dead giveaway.
Not selective, just one that cares more for lore than for gameplay.[/quote]
Only gonna go over these.
1. Verandis is pretty easy to identify when he shows up the second time and his houses reputation makes it very clear the only reason he isn't successfully blending in is he does not want to, and the only reason he doesn't get pitchforked is the king's friendship. Sorry. You dont just get to over-ride this one because it disagree's with your misconceptions. Verandis is -not- an exception to the rule.
3. Harkon and his kin are starving, he even has diologue related to this. A DIRECT QUOTE. " I keep a stable of thralls in the castle should you need to feed like the baser vampires to stave off the sun." And you can go ahed and check that source, here. http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Lord_Harkon It's a point of pride for the man.
Barring that, the two quests that deal with rooting out vampires in public require you to either outright break the law and kill them because the guards *dont* recognize the glowing eyes making it very clear they are not a dead giveaway The other quest means we have to use physical evidence, and that's a dealbreaker. You dont get to sweep that one under the rug either.
GOING EVEN FURTHER, the vampire quests display an almost bloodlines attitude toward discression. You cull lesser vampires and dawnguard spies in order to get the general public less riled up to and including framing the dawnguard and framing them like zealots, creating vampires to act as spies in all the major cities. Those last ones, pass virutally indetected, and it never comes up again, you have a vampire contact in each major city ranging from political, to the owner of the inn in winterhold, to having a spy among the poor and destitute of Markarth. Did you actually play the games? Source for this: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:New_Allegiances
@Bruccius the lore disagree's with you because if the lore didn't none of these gameplay concepts and quests were possible. Volkihar is displayed as a incredibly open or incredibly powerfull yet their attempts at infiltration outright rival the Order. So Verandis carrying on a long tradition, even considering Volkihar starts during the second era and possibly beyond.
Bottom line, the basis in lore is staggering. The more you look at it, the more various vampiric strains some are deeply suited toward infiltration up to and including the Telboth who assume a childs roll in a bosmer family then wait years to kill them. Source: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Immortal_Blood Dont hide behind it as an excuse anymore. It cant support you.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on July 29, 2018 2:00PM0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DuskMarine wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »DuskMarine wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »[
It's a glitch, and could be considered so if ZOS really wants to press the issue.
Is there any evidence at all - as in an Official ZoS post - that indicates using a costume or skin that overrides the Vamp look is an exploit?
Not that I've seen, and I read these Forums every day.
NOTE: A "glitch" is NOT the same as an "exploit" and never has been.
All The Best
"Promote, upload, transmit, encourage or take part in any activity involving hacking, cracking, phishing, taking advantage of exploits or cheats and/or distribution of counterfeit software and/or Virtual Currency or virtual items. In an effort to continuously improve the Services, You and other players discovering exploits, cheats, cracks or other inconsistencies are required to report them to ZeniMax;"
This is vague, and left intentionally so. ZOS generally likes to decide on it's own what is and isn't an exploit or a cheat. And 'taking advantage of exploits' could mean any and all glitches or any other abnormalities. Until I can see an official word from ZOS cited on the matter, I'll air on the side of caution, and act accordingly.
I'm going to leave it here as it is clear there's no real discussion or communication at all with you, and say the following:
1. We got the outfit system because people wanted customization. Hide vampirism is even older, and comes from the same vein. There is lore basis, evidence in gameplay to suggest it is possible, and so on.
2. I am willing to support this game by buying it as a paid feature.
3. Even if you disagree with making it a toggle, you have to acknowledge there is nothing stopping you from living up to your own principles. You can choose not to use it. That does not give you the right to demand others do the same, just like I dont have the right to demand you stop using 'all the best' in your posts.
dark spawn your kindve outta your mind here as the necromancer skin litterally was made by zos to hide the vamp skin. and even alcast posted about the thing months ago so clearly its not a offense >_>
Didn't know. I dont care about skins aquired from dungeon's, because I will never get them, because I refuse to put myself through hell for one skin.
all you gotta do is be a tank and have 2 competant dps and a healer. no pain required long as your in a good guild.
Not worth it. Not easy as your making it out to be. No thanks.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on July 29, 2018 1:41PM0 -
Vulsahdaal✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I thought it was obvious I was referring to being a vamp AND look normal in the process.Vulsahdaal wrote: »Vulsahdaal wrote: »
Why can I look like a Valkyn Skoria gang bukkake victim but not like a normal human/elf?
But you can look like like a normal human/elf. Just cure the vampirism- and you get your wish.
That answer seemed so obvious, I thought that maybe I was missing something here. Thats why I asked, just to clarify.
Besides, you didn't answer my question.
Repeat, why (in vampire state, just to clarifiy) can I look like LITERALLY anything but normal?
You cant look like literally anything. And honestly I am glad about that, because the thoughts of what people may choose to look like can be very disturbing. ZOS was kind enough to give you a few other options, thats all.
This said, I think Im getting a more clear idea of what youre looking for. Ill put it in my next post and you can let me know if this is incorrect?
1 -
Vulsahdaal✭✭✭✭✭
✭Salvas_Aren wrote: »Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »
However, they are normal enough to put on skins and disguises so far.
What's the clue behind not allowing vampire to wear an alternative crown skin?
What's the point to tell Zeni how they have to make money? If they decide that such a package might sell well, how would you prevent that and why?
Why a skin? And how would it work? Most skins are pretty uniform. What I mean is, they pretty much look the same, no matter what the characters race. How do they make a 'normal' skin in order to sell, when the skin color can vary greatly within a single race, not to mention taking all races into account?
Wouldnt it just be easier to ask that they just sell a package in the crown store that gives all vampire passives without having to be a vampire? This way you can look 'normal' or wear any other skin that you wish.
Seems to me that its just what many are looking for anyway?
3 -
ZOS_JesCadminGreetings, we've removed a few comments that were off topic and baiting. Since the thread hasn't been able to remain constructive, we have decided to close it. Thank you.The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
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