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Disguising Vampirism - It's time
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adriant1978✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Still waiting for someone to suggest an actual reason why this would be detrimental, to the game or to their playing experience or whatever.
So far it just seems like people are anti this for the sake of being anti ...
12 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭adriant1978 wrote: »Still waiting for someone to suggest an actual reason why this would be detrimental, to the game or to their playing experience or whatever.
So far it just seems like people are anti this for the sake of being anti ...
It has already been stated there are means to hide the appearance already. I have yet to hear a justification that the currently plentiful means is not sufficient. It seems like some people are anti this for the sake of being anti.5 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
But then you go and become a Vampire, knowing there's a visual consequence. I do though understand the desire to look exactly how you want to, but we can't have our way completely, and Vampirism is a special case. This isn't just hiding an armor piece or wearing a particularly covering Body Marking. You're supposed to be Cursed/Infected, your body reflects this infection and it's stages of severity. And honestly just be glad there isn't a stage where you actually turn into a Vampire Lord Gargoyle thing ala Skyrim or that one quest Boss in Eastmarch.
Besides if there's an exception made for Vampires, then who's to say the Werewolves won't chime in? What if they don't like looking like a giant dog on steroids but still want to use the skills?
but costumes and outfits completely hiding your gear from showing if its light medium or heavy is fine? or hiding your master axes as daggers? nope you all simply overlook that conveniently. Vampires in lore can use illusion magic to hide their vampirism. Werewolves are too into a primal rage to focus any magic to hide their lycanthropy or use magic
Okay,
Now first, remember that Magic isn't just something where a toddler can summon lightning. Maintaining an Illusion spell indefinitely would require intense concentration and Magical prowess. How are the Stamina Vampires supposed to accomplish this feat?
The same way that stamina vampires can join the Psijic Order.
Yoi can't selectively use the lore like that for your own means.Edited by MLGProPlayer on July 26, 2018 8:34PM3 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭All I ever hear from this argument is that you all want the benefits but don't want to suffer all the consequences. The cosmetic disfigurement is a part of the package. If it bothers you so much, don't be a vampire. Nobody's forcing you to play that role.
The game does force you to play that role though. Vampirism is overpowered and is necessary for any meta game build. There is a reason why almost every endgame player in the game is a vampire. Hint: It's not because they all want to roleplay as vampires.Edited by MLGProPlayer on July 26, 2018 8:37PM7 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »I m always amazed by replies on this topic
Let people enjoy their character and hide vampirism if they want
There is no harm to others
I don't know, I think it's good people can still have opinions about some things in 2018, at least in video games. Opinions really don't shock me; not even ones that are against others having different opinions than whatever one clique has.
No one is saying people aren't allowed to have opinions. It's just that a weirdly large crowd of players has a baseless opinion that flies in the face of facts and logic and pretty much only stands to dictate how others play the game (which is the "don't let vampires hide it" crowd) based on some strange moral principles, as far as I can gather (moral principles that only exist when dealing with a purely fictional entity, mind you).
The "don't let vampires hide it" crowd is the most active-aggressive group of role-players I've ever seen. And it's fine for that to be their opinion, but that opinion should not influence the gameplay experience of others, especially others who don't share that opinon (which as it turns out, is most players).
Personally, I don't care what they do with it, it's zos' game. I see valid reasons on both sides of the argument, and I think from recent polls usually around 40% or more of the player base doesn't want the appearance to be a toggle, so depending on your definition of "most" this could be argued. The opinions I agree most with in this thread relate to vampire power and the need to play vampire to embrace meta builds. Removing the 10% regen and lowering mist-form's mitigation would go a long way to making vampire more of a choice than a requirement.
As to the appearance effecting other players' experience, it does have an impact on their game experience and immersion if vampires in a Gothic horror game don't look like vampires but look like suntanned super models. If it was a single player game where you didn't have to see other players than sure it wouldn't matter, but since it's not, everyone who has to participate is effected by a decision like this.
I also would like to say, I appreciate the developers integrity in approaching an appearance trade-off for a power trade-off, it's a common theme in a number of classic stories and it brings some gravity and depth to the game and player's choices.
Anyway, my opinion here isn't what I'm arguing, what I am arguing is the validity of various opinions and the right for people to have them regardless of how well they articulate them. I'm not a fan of groupthink.
There isn't a valid argument on both sides.
The "no hiding" side has never presented a valid argument other than "I'm salty and don't want other people to enjoy the game".7 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭adriant1978 wrote: »Still waiting for someone to suggest an actual reason why this would be detrimental, to the game or to their playing experience or whatever.
So far it just seems like people are anti this for the sake of being anti ...
Some people get off of watching other's be miserable. It's incredibly petty.Edited by MLGProPlayer on July 26, 2018 8:41PM6 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭adriant1978 wrote: »Still waiting for someone to suggest an actual reason why this would be detrimental, to the game or to their playing experience or whatever.
So far it just seems like people are anti this for the sake of being anti ...
It has already been stated there are means to hide the appearance already. I have yet to hear a justification that the currently plentiful means is not sufficient. It seems like some people are anti this for the sake of being anti.
Those are extremely limited customization options:
1. Skins still hide your character's actual appearance
2. Disguises hide your gear
Try again.Edited by MLGProPlayer on July 26, 2018 10:47PM4 -
lowlifer✭1st stage vampirism actually looks rather good. I don't understand why the benefits get getter as the stage increases but your looks get worse lol.
Yes some smart guy will feed me lore and tell me that you're supposed to look terrible when you starve your character, in which I reply, let people chars look terrible when their food buff runs out xD0 -
NetViperX✭✭✭✭I just want to be able to choose the super pale skin tone for my regular non vampire characters, but without the disgusting veins and red eyes.Edited by NetViperX on July 26, 2018 10:13PM2 -
Avalarion01Soul Shriven1st stage vampirism actually looks rather good. I don't understand why the benefits get getter as the stage increases but your looks get worse lol.
Yes some smart guy will feed me lore and tell me that you're supposed to look terrible when you starve your character, in which I reply, let people chars look terrible when their food buff runs out xD
Even in Skyrim i never understood why a starved weakened feral vampire would be stronger than a strong fed rational vampire. You would think since vampires draw substance from blood they grow stronger the more one feeds. This is why in Skyrim i could not be a vampire without the Better Vampire mod, This mod reversed the stage 1 to stage 4 benefits among other things. So you had to keep finding victims to feed on to be the pretty vampire lord you were meant to be.
Being a vampire in tamriel requires no maintenance and is boring, WW's get to feed on corpses to remain strong and vampires have to starve themselves, just makes no sense to me.
the mentioned mod:
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/9717
What i also liked from this is that you gained new skills whenever you reached a x number of feedings, a more interesting progression to vampire 10 than just getting xp without the need to use your vampire abilities.
back to OP, Since i doubt we will be getting a complete vampire overhaul i see no reason why you should not be able to hide your vampirism. As other have stated Tamriel vampires have been known to use glamours either to blend in society or to use in getting close to some prey. Game-wise you can allready hide your skin in so many ways so why not simply allow to use your Original skin, should be no effort and no more gamebreaking than the allready available options.
Edited by Avalarion01 on July 26, 2018 10:31PM0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭adriant1978 wrote: »
Never said it did. That alone is most certainly not a justification.
Obviously Zos has not made this so for their own reasons and any game developer will not change something just because some feel a little put off.MLGProPlayer wrote: »adriant1978 wrote: »Still waiting for someone to suggest an actual reason why this would be detrimental, to the game or to their playing experience or whatever.
So far it just seems like people are anti this for the sake of being anti ...
It has already been stated there are means to hide the appearance already. I have yet to hear a justification that the currently plentiful means is not sufficient. It seems like some people are anti this for the sake of being anti.
Those are extremely limited customization options:
1. Skins still hide your character's actual appearwnce
2. Disguises hide your gear
Try again.
It seems more that you can try again. I am not the one with any issues. I not the one demanding change because I do not like the design Zos implemented.
Enjoy the game.1 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭chimneyswift_ESO wrote: »Vampirism is an in game choice. Key word there, "choice." Everybody and their brother knows that vampires (in nearly all forms of media) always look pretty awful and scary. If you don't want that look in a game where they exist in the lore...there are a few options:
1. Stay in Vampirism stage 1
2. Equip a skin
3. Wear some kind of armor, hat, or costume that hides the appearance
4. Polymorphs
5. Cure the vampirism and go back to being a normal soulless being on Nirn trying to fight the good fight against Molag Bal like the rest of us.
I myself am a vampire and I've never complained about the appearance cause I almost always follow these tips. I'm definitely not trying to be rude or anything, I'm just trying to provide some options. Also I want to reiterate the fact that vampirism is a choice
I don't hear werewolves talking about how they wish they could look less "scary" in werewolf form 
Using a sword is a choice but you can make it look like a dagger so the "choice" argument doesn't fly at all.
Check vampire lore. Awful and scary isn't how they are most often described.
Some descriptions of vampires.
"Young, seductive, sexual and alluring" The Vampyer 1819
"Female Vampires: Beautiful to the point of hypnotic" Dracula 1897
"Ordinary, but often somewhat above average" Blade
"All are beautiful. The transformation enhances their beauty. The older and stronger they get, the less human they look but still remain beautiful." Vampire Diaries
"Cartoon duck" Count Duckula
So the lore argument doesn't hold water.
Only real argument left given all the other things we are allowed to hide in the game is spite.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."1 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Oh, [censored to avoid offending people] YES!!!dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »On the matter of Vampires in general I still want an opposing anti-monster group to be part of in the same way I also wish I could have joined the Order of the Iron Wheel in the Thieves Guild DLC.
There should be choices for either side, everywhere!
It would have made -such- a better DLC if you had the choice to do the TG storyline from the side of the thieves guild... or a fresh recruit for the iron wheel, facing overzealuos officers who would slay a thief for stealing an apple (Inspector Javert, anyone?) as well as corrupt guardsmen who would take any bribe, and slowly uncover the plots and dark secrets of a certain merchant prince in the name of Justice!
Same for the dark brotherhood... playing the same from a "take a stand against the dastardly murderers" point of view would have been so much fun, when every character would pick their side...
...heck, they could even have mixed PvP into those by letting the "iron wheel enforcers" go after the "organized thieves" and the "dark brotherhood assassins" murder the "order of the hour guards" in dark alleys, and stuff...
Alas. Paths not taken.
I think ESO vampires ought to suffer from rötschreck every time they use a DK or templar ability...dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »Don't some of you get bored being a vampire every single time? On top of this, I find it thematically poor design that the class that feels the greatest need to be a Vampire is the class that was thematically most opposed to Vampirism. Strikes me as odd and I'm not the only one.
2 -
Hurbster✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »
And the only real drawback it has (the way you look) creates threads like these.So they raised the floor and lowered the ceiling. Except the ceiling has spikes in it now and the floor is also lava.2 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭adriant1978 wrote: »
Never said it did. That alone is most certainly not a justification.
Obviously Zos has not made this so for their own reasons and any game developer will not change something just because some feel a little put off.MLGProPlayer wrote: »adriant1978 wrote: »Still waiting for someone to suggest an actual reason why this would be detrimental, to the game or to their playing experience or whatever.
So far it just seems like people are anti this for the sake of being anti ...
It has already been stated there are means to hide the appearance already. I have yet to hear a justification that the currently plentiful means is not sufficient. It seems like some people are anti this for the sake of being anti.
Those are extremely limited customization options:
1. Skins still hide your character's actual appearwnce
2. Disguises hide your gear
Try again.
It seems more that you can try again. I am not the one with any issues. I not the one demanding change because I do not like the design Zos implemented.
Enjoy the game.
You're engaging in an argument about something you have no argument against.2 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »
And the only real drawback it has (the way you look) creates threads like these.
There need to be gameplay drawbacks for gameplay benefits.
Otherwise, you're only punishing players who care about their appearance. Anyone who doesn't care about looking like a meth head has no drawbacks. That's not a drawback. That's bad game design.Edited by MLGProPlayer on July 26, 2018 11:08PM3 -
Eeri_Ravencaw✭✭✭Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »Eeri_Ravencaw wrote: »Eeri_Ravencaw wrote: »Eeri_Ravencaw wrote: »Aren't vampires supposed to die in sunlight?
That's already a huge advantage in ESO.
this is tamriel, multiple strains of vampirism exist in it and the strain we are in eso can survive in sunlight
You vamps keep referring lore that vamps can disguise themselves. Well the lore also says vampire dies in sunlight. ESO already plays nice and let you live in day light but no you want everything nice plus the power without any drawbacks. That seems greedy to me.
Dont quote lore when you fail to state that there is different strains of vamprism
Let me spelll it out for you. ESO created strains to specifically let you live in daylight.
Let me spell it out for you. Reference Oblivion and Skyrim and you will see that two very different kinds of vampirism exist in the world of the Elder Scrolls (Skyrim vampires did not take damage in the sunlight, by the way). ESO did not create anything that had not already been created before as it pertains to how vampirism in Tamriel works. Why lie about something that's so easy to disprove? It's a pretty braindead arguing tactic.
Edit: Also amazingly ironic that you misspelled the word "spell"
Last I heard ESO is a separate game development. The decision is theirs. I stand by what I said.
Personal attack? "Look in the mirror, vampire, do you hate what you see?" LOL2 -
Aliyavana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Eeri_Ravencaw wrote: »Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »Eeri_Ravencaw wrote: »Eeri_Ravencaw wrote: »Eeri_Ravencaw wrote: »Aren't vampires supposed to die in sunlight?
That's already a huge advantage in ESO.
this is tamriel, multiple strains of vampirism exist in it and the strain we are in eso can survive in sunlight
You vamps keep referring lore that vamps can disguise themselves. Well the lore also says vampire dies in sunlight. ESO already plays nice and let you live in day light but no you want everything nice plus the power without any drawbacks. That seems greedy to me.
Dont quote lore when you fail to state that there is different strains of vamprism
Let me spelll it out for you. ESO created strains to specifically let you live in daylight.
Let me spell it out for you. Reference Oblivion and Skyrim and you will see that two very different kinds of vampirism exist in the world of the Elder Scrolls (Skyrim vampires did not take damage in the sunlight, by the way). ESO did not create anything that had not already been created before as it pertains to how vampirism in Tamriel works. Why lie about something that's so easy to disprove? It's a pretty braindead arguing tactic.
Edit: Also amazingly ironic that you misspelled the word "spell"
Last I heard ESO is a separate game development. The decision is theirs. I stand by what I said.
Personal attack? "Look in the mirror, vampire, do you hate what you see?" LOL
eso is canon to the elder scrolls series and you just want to ignore that just to suit your arguement0 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As much as I would like to be able to hide vampirism, at this point I have to assume that if it was going to happen Bethesda would be making money on it already.
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
[/center]1 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »I m always amazed by replies on this topic
Let people enjoy their character and hide vampirism if they want
There is no harm to others
I don't know, I think it's good people can still have opinions about some things in 2018, at least in video games. Opinions really don't shock me; not even ones that are against others having different opinions than whatever one clique has.
No one is saying people aren't allowed to have opinions. It's just that a weirdly large crowd of players has a baseless opinion that flies in the face of facts and logic and pretty much only stands to dictate how others play the game (which is the "don't let vampires hide it" crowd) based on some strange moral principles, as far as I can gather (moral principles that only exist when dealing with a purely fictional entity, mind you).
The "don't let vampires hide it" crowd is the most active-aggressive group of role-players I've ever seen. And it's fine for that to be their opinion, but that opinion should not influence the gameplay experience of others, especially others who don't share that opinon (which as it turns out, is most players).
Personally, I don't care what they do with it, it's zos' game. I see valid reasons on both sides of the argument, and I think from recent polls usually around 40% or more of the player base doesn't want the appearance to be a toggle, so depending on your definition of "most" this could be argued. The opinions I agree most with in this thread relate to vampire power and the need to play vampire to embrace meta builds. Removing the 10% regen and lowering mist-form's mitigation would go a long way to making vampire more of a choice than a requirement.
As to the appearance effecting other players' experience, it does have an impact on their game experience and immersion if vampires in a Gothic horror game don't look like vampires but look like suntanned super models. If it was a single player game where you didn't have to see other players than sure it wouldn't matter, but since it's not, everyone who has to participate is effected by a decision like this.
I also would like to say, I appreciate the developers integrity in approaching an appearance trade-off for a power trade-off, it's a common theme in a number of classic stories and it brings some gravity and depth to the game and player's choices.
Anyway, my opinion here isn't what I'm arguing, what I am arguing is the validity of various opinions and the right for people to have them regardless of how well they articulate them. I'm not a fan of groupthink.
1. one side wants a choice. the other side doesn't want anyone to have that choice
2. please for the love of all that is holy, in a game where we have sparkly or fiery or ghostly MOUNTS, where we have SKINS plural that make you glow in a variety of ways... where people deliberately dress up in most outrageous ways, tank their way through veteran dungeons wearing dresses or nordic towels, and i can keep going. please please please STOP bringing up immersion as an excuse why anti hiding people have a point. becasue they. do. not. there are far more immersion breaking things in this game that LORE FRIENDLY ability to disguise your vampirism (yes it is lore friendly, there are npc's in this very game that chose to hide it and do so successfully)
not letting other people CHOOSE to hide vampirism is petty. nothing more nothing less. no one is forcing everyone into hiding vampirism. we are asking for a skin, a toggle SOMETHING that gives us option to hide it. not a default.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***8 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭adriant1978 wrote: »Still waiting for someone to suggest an actual reason why this would be detrimental, to the game or to their playing experience or whatever.
So far it just seems like people are anti this for the sake of being anti ...
It has already been stated there are means to hide the appearance already. I have yet to hear a justification that the currently plentiful means is not sufficient. It seems like some people are anti this for the sake of being anti.
none of those things give you character appearance as you have designed it without locking you into a few disguises that don't let you costumize your outfit, etc.
and its not like they even have to change anything other then just turn default appearance into an extra skin. MORE OPTIONS > FEWER options.
and people who like looking like nosferatu.. can KEEP LOOKING LIKE NOSFERATUdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***4 -
Aethereal'Golden✭✭✭I don't like how vampirism turn elvish eyes into human... However, I think that the best way is to rework stage 1 appearance. Stage 1 - normal, default skin. After all, vampires have their regeneration passive only on stage 2 and higher. So they can look like ugly beasts and be powerful in combat, while hungry, and be charming while crafting or trading in cities, fed.
Werewolfs are beasts and look so mostly only in combat situations too.0 -
FelixTheCatt✭✭✭Interesting points made by both sides of this argument. Still , I'm willing to bet at the end of the day nothing will be changed.Xbox - Kuchini07
Eso - FaCoffinDye (EP)1 -
Eeri_Ravencaw✭✭✭Eeri_Ravencaw wrote: »Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »Eeri_Ravencaw wrote: »Eeri_Ravencaw wrote: »Eeri_Ravencaw wrote: »Aren't vampires supposed to die in sunlight?
That's already a huge advantage in ESO.
this is tamriel, multiple strains of vampirism exist in it and the strain we are in eso can survive in sunlight
You vamps keep referring lore that vamps can disguise themselves. Well the lore also says vampire dies in sunlight. ESO already plays nice and let you live in day light but no you want everything nice plus the power without any drawbacks. That seems greedy to me.
Dont quote lore when you fail to state that there is different strains of vamprism
Let me spelll it out for you. ESO created strains to specifically let you live in daylight.
Let me spell it out for you. Reference Oblivion and Skyrim and you will see that two very different kinds of vampirism exist in the world of the Elder Scrolls (Skyrim vampires did not take damage in the sunlight, by the way). ESO did not create anything that had not already been created before as it pertains to how vampirism in Tamriel works. Why lie about something that's so easy to disprove? It's a pretty braindead arguing tactic.
Edit: Also amazingly ironic that you misspelled the word "spell"
Last I heard ESO is a separate game development. The decision is theirs. I stand by what I said.
Personal attack? "Look in the mirror, vampire, do you hate what you see?" LOL
eso is canon to the elder scrolls series and you just want to ignore that just to suit your arguement
If you want to draw in older games like Oblivion and Skyrim then tell me did those vampires disguise themselves?1 -
Blacksmoke✭✭✭✭✭Its not nice try.Champion point: 645CharactersGanlian Stormian - AD - Dungeon healer - Templar - CrafterOndaril Stormian - AD - Trail DPS - SorcererShagrod gro-Bolmog - AD - PVP - Dragonknight0 -
BrightOblivion✭✭✭✭✭As much as I would like to be able to hide vampirism, at this point I have to assume that if it was going to happen Bethesda would be making money on it already.
At the same time, it was mentioned as recently as the notes for the June 7 class rep meeting, so ZOS is at least aware it's something "many players" want in some form or fashion.
So I guess we'll have to see.1 -
adriant1978✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »adriant1978 wrote: »Still waiting for someone to suggest an actual reason why this would be detrimental, to the game or to their playing experience or whatever.
So far it just seems like people are anti this for the sake of being anti ...
Some people get off of watching other's be miserable. It's incredibly petty.
I didn't want to believe this was true, but after watching this thread and others on the topic I'm starting to think you may be right.4
This discussion has been closed.