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Promoting Small scale / solo play, while nerfing the zergs, minuscule.. thoughts?
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Berenhir✭✭✭✭✭
✭This discussion is stupid. When you are blue or yellow and impose a threat to the Pact by killing Pact players or distracting them from playing the map you need to die. No matter if you need to be 1vXed or Xv1ed because you chose to build/train for that. It's AvA not PvP.
How much have you zerged in the last week..?
[sardonicism]I don't zerg, I specifically destroy selfproclaimed small scaler's illusion of personal superiority and idea of a game that is based on personal skill and experience by killing them while they stroke their own ego with farming noobs.[/sardonicism]
I don't care if people are "small scalers", YouTubers, solo players, gankers, bomb groups or trolls, I don't care if people take their pride from fighting bad players outnumbered or zerging with superior numbers - when they have enlisted for the orcs or elves, I kill them alike.
If you are on Pact territory - which is everywhere we set foot on - you are a threat so you better run or get killed in the attempt. No mercy. Full fist.
I play mostly in a duo. I follow faction pushes, I even command in zone chat if I'm fed up. I don't lead LFGs, I don't run in guild groups at the moment. I play the map whenever it seems worth it and even when not, I defend pact territory at all costs.
And I actively encourage any ingame attempt to destroy faction hopping elitist groups that feel entitled to harass people playing the map, have a cease fire with other faction's groups of that kind and look down on other players as stupid PuGs, as useless "randoms", as zerglings or whatever else they deem a form of inferior existence.
That it's exactly those people crying on the forums that they cannot show their self estimated superiority and want ZOS to buff them is just the real joke. It's like a tank that wipes when he and his two friends try to trio vCR+3 and then asks ZOS to nerf the trial so that they can show their superior skills by doing it with three people instead of zerging the boss down with 12 people like other pathetic zerglings do that have no skill whatsoever.Edited by Berenhir on July 27, 2018 3:18PMPC EU - Ebonheart Pact - Gray Host - Death Recap -#zergfarming -6 -
Ceepax✭✭✭IZZEFlameLash wrote: »
The thing is, they did advertise this game as huge pvp battle game. And initially, the server actually handled it very well. If you have seen Angry Joe's video about his Angry Army, you will get the scale it was intended for. Playing small scale is a choice as a player to put themselves in a disadvantaged position and the fun is in trying to overcome it. I am not at all for enforcing a certain playstyle upon people through penalties.
I know but what i mean is back then players had the tools to have a chance in each type of playstyle, they stripped it all away and now its just pure numbers.Lil Ceep1 -
Irylia✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »There is a HUGE difference in 4 people chasing down 1 guy, to 40 people chasing down 1 guy. VERY, VERY large difference.
There is no meaningful difference, if it is okay for 4 guys to chase 1 guy down then it is okay for 40 to chase down 4, you think it is somehow "fair" or "skilful" for 4 guys to chase 1 down, but suddenly it becomes "unfair" and "unskilled" if 40 do it to 4, there is a word for that - hypocrisy.And no, NB's and Sorcs probably have it worse for open world (When its comes to Xv1), as a LOT of NB's rely on cloak, and with sets like Sloads.. they cant cloak, and Sorcs rely on shields.. which keeping up with 25k worth of shields while taking prolly a good 30k+ DPS from 20+ different people, shields arnt strong anymore.
LOL, Sloads and cloak is a temporary thing that is getting fixed, as for 20+ different people that isn't smallscale so who cares, there is a reason NB and sorc have always been ez-mode for smallscale because they can disengage much more effectively than the other classes (or barely even have to engage on certain builds) so have low risk and high reward, which is exactly why there is no shortage of either them.And yes, Zergs and horrible lag/game issues is why small scaling is dying off.
Smallscale dies off in nearly every RvR game for the reasons I gave previously, save your excuses, when your little group zergs down 1 guy like good little zerglings, then you are killing smallscale just as much as a zerg chasing down your little group is, take some responsibility for your actions.
Oh yeah, which do you play NB or Sorc?
Well said...
There are a lot of hypocrites in this game and your post perfectly exposes their hypocrisy...
Basically what they do to "own" is ok and acceptable, but if they get owned in a way they don't like its a problem that needs to be fixed...
LoL...
Most small scalers I know leave soloers alone. Not sure where this hostility is coming from. I’ve heard that on PC EU it’s dofferent and everyone attacks everyone else, but on PC NA most small scalers leave known solo players alone.
The problem arises when you come across certain solo players that are known for zerging. Once you get that reputation, you’re fair game.
If you’re solo and get killed by my group message me and say that you’re solo. If you’re solo and standing next to a bunch of other solos, just remember that we can’t tell who’s grouped with who and understand that if you’re a real solo you wouldn’t be next to people from your alliance anyway.
In my experience the people that whine the most about getting zerged down by small scalers while solo are soloers only in the sense that they tend to stand next to other soloers and then they all solo the same opponents together at the same time...
Actual solo players will make an active effort to stay away from other players in their own alliance so that nobody “adds” onto their fights. They also won’t add onto other people / groups fights. Those are the soloers we respect and do not steamroll.
These rules are stupid.. Yay! lets give the 'good' players an easy ride by not attacking them with other 'good' players - let them fight only scrubs so they can stay 'good'.. Yay for cliques and elitism!
Or attack everyone and get hated for it.
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Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »There is a HUGE difference in 4 people chasing down 1 guy, to 40 people chasing down 1 guy. VERY, VERY large difference.
There is no meaningful difference, if it is okay for 4 guys to chase 1 guy down then it is okay for 40 to chase down 4, you think it is somehow "fair" or "skilful" for 4 guys to chase 1 down, but suddenly it becomes "unfair" and "unskilled" if 40 do it to 4, there is a word for that - hypocrisy.And no, NB's and Sorcs probably have it worse for open world (When its comes to Xv1), as a LOT of NB's rely on cloak, and with sets like Sloads.. they cant cloak, and Sorcs rely on shields.. which keeping up with 25k worth of shields while taking prolly a good 30k+ DPS from 20+ different people, shields arnt strong anymore.
LOL, Sloads and cloak is a temporary thing that is getting fixed, as for 20+ different people that isn't smallscale so who cares, there is a reason NB and sorc have always been ez-mode for smallscale because they can disengage much more effectively than the other classes (or barely even have to engage on certain builds) so have low risk and high reward, which is exactly why there is no shortage of either them.And yes, Zergs and horrible lag/game issues is why small scaling is dying off.
Smallscale dies off in nearly every RvR game for the reasons I gave previously, save your excuses, when your little group zergs down 1 guy like good little zerglings, then you are killing smallscale just as much as a zerg chasing down your little group is, take some responsibility for your actions.
Oh yeah, which do you play NB or Sorc?
Well said...
There are a lot of hypocrites in this game and your post perfectly exposes their hypocrisy...
Basically what they do to "own" is ok and acceptable, but if they get owned in a way they don't like its a problem that needs to be fixed...
LoL...
Most small scalers I know leave soloers alone. Not sure where this hostility is coming from. I’ve heard that on PC EU it’s dofferent and everyone attacks everyone else, but on PC NA most small scalers leave known solo players alone.
The problem arises when you come across certain solo players that are known for zerging. Once you get that reputation, you’re fair game.
If you’re solo and get killed by my group message me and say that you’re solo. If you’re solo and standing next to a bunch of other solos, just remember that we can’t tell who’s grouped with who and understand that if you’re a real solo you wouldn’t be next to people from your alliance anyway.
In my experience the people that whine the most about getting zerged down by small scalers while solo are soloers only in the sense that they tend to stand next to other soloers and then they all solo the same opponents together at the same time...
Actual solo players will make an active effort to stay away from other players in their own alliance so that nobody “adds” onto their fights. They also won’t add onto other people / groups fights. Those are the soloers we respect and do not steamroll.
These rules are stupid.. Yay! lets give the 'good' players an easy ride by not attacking them with other 'good' players - let them fight only scrubs so they can stay 'good'.. Yay for cliques and elitism!
Or attack everyone and get hated for it.
Or don't help your team-mates and get hated for it.Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.1 -
MalagenR✭✭✭✭✭Dude it's a warzone. Resource's are out there to be capped, towns are out there to be capped, these are small scale PVP locations.
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Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Some people play because they want to role play a certain faction and win the campaign. Other people play because they want to PvP and get the toughest fights.
There’s nothing wrong with either strategy. Zerglings can certainly play the campaign the way they want to. I don’t resent them for it and I don’t send them hate tells for it. Without them I’d never get to fight outnumbered.
The only thing I’d say to the players like @Biro123 and @Berenhir is that in the if you’re not in a group and have an “If it’s not of the same alliance as me it’s dead no matter what” attitude, then you’re not really a soloer. You can call yourself that all you want, but the “PvP community” will mock you for it. Real soloers prefer to fight by themselves. If you run around attacking everything you see, and sometimes you’re by yourself and sometimes you are inside of a horde of your alliance members, you’re not a soloer, you’re just really unorganized and uncoordinated with the rest of your alliance’s zerg.
There’s nothing wrong with that - it takes time to organize. And everyone can play the way they want to play. Just don’t complain about getting run over by a small scale group when you’re “solo” and die in a tower on top of twenty other “soloers.” If you have a “kill everything” mentality, that’s fine. Just don’t expect to be shown any respect from enemy groups. You play your way, we play ours, we all have fun. Everyone wins
Edited by Thogard on July 26, 2018 3:55PMPC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp0 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Some people play because they want to role play a certain faction and win the campaign. Other people play because they want to PvP and get the toughest fights.
There’s nothing wrong with either strategy. Zerglings can certainly play the campaign the way they want to. I don’t resent them for it and I don’t send them hate tells for it. Without them I’d never get to fight outnumbered.
The only thing I’d say to the players like @Biro123 and @Berenhir is that in the if you’re not in a group and have an “If it’s not of the same alliance as me it’s dead no matter what” attitude, then you’re not really a soloer. You can call yourself that all you want, but the “PvP community” will mock you for it. Real soloers prefer to fight by themselves. If you run around attacking everything you see, and sometimes you’re by yourself and sometimes you are inside of a horde of your alliance members, you’re not a soloer, you’re just really unorganized and uncoordinated with the rest of your alliance’s zerg.
Ah, the usual argument shifts to semantics as elitism rears its head again.. Well in that case, I raise you with 'Zergling' - under the definition of outnumbering your opponent by 4 or more - which is what most 'small-scalers' do against PeopleWhoAreUngroupedButArentAllowedToCallThemselvesSoloerBecauseOnlyTheSmallScaleGroupsCanDecideThat.Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.3 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Some people play because they want to role play a certain faction and win the campaign. Other people play because they want to PvP and get the toughest fights.
There’s nothing wrong with either strategy. Zerglings can certainly play the campaign the way they want to. I don’t resent them for it and I don’t send them hate tells for it. Without them I’d never get to fight outnumbered.
The only thing I’d say to the players like @Biro123 and @Berenhir is that in the if you’re not in a group and have an “If it’s not of the same alliance as me it’s dead no matter what” attitude, then you’re not really a soloer. You can call yourself that all you want, but the “PvP community” will mock you for it. Real soloers prefer to fight by themselves. If you run around attacking everything you see, and sometimes you’re by yourself and sometimes you are inside of a horde of your alliance members, you’re not a soloer, you’re just really unorganized and uncoordinated with the rest of your alliance’s zerg.
Ah, the usual argument shifts to semantics as elitism rears its head again.. Well in that case, I raise you with 'Zergling' - under the definition of outnumbering your opponent by 4 or more - which is what most 'small-scalers' do against PeopleWhoAreUngroupedButArentAllowedToCallThemselvesSoloerBecauseOnlyTheSmallScaleGroupsCanDecideThat.
People can call themselves whatever they want to call themselves.
And it’s not semantics.. a soloer is someone who prefers to fight solo.
Many zerglings think that “ungrouped” is synonymous with “solo.” It isn’t, and pointing that out isn’t nit-picking with semantics, it’s clarifying a very straightforward concept to people who obfuscate the two in order to preserve their ego.PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp2 -
MalagenR✭✭✭✭✭Some people play because they want to role play a certain faction and win the campaign. Other people play because they want to PvP and get the toughest fights.
There’s nothing wrong with either strategy. Zerglings can certainly play the campaign the way they want to. I don’t resent them for it and I don’t send them hate tells for it. Without them I’d never get to fight outnumbered.
The only thing I’d say to the players like @Biro123 and @Berenhir is that in the if you’re not in a group and have an “If it’s not of the same alliance as me it’s dead no matter what” attitude, then you’re not really a soloer. You can call yourself that all you want, but the “PvP community” will mock you for it. Real soloers prefer to fight by themselves. If you run around attacking everything you see, and sometimes you’re by yourself and sometimes you are inside of a horde of your alliance members, you’re not a soloer, you’re just really unorganized and uncoordinated with the rest of your alliance’s zerg.
Ah, the usual argument shifts to semantics as elitism rears its head again.. Well in that case, I raise you with 'Zergling' - under the definition of outnumbering your opponent by 4 or more - which is what most 'small-scalers' do against PeopleWhoAreUngroupedButArentAllowedToCallThemselvesSoloerBecauseOnlyTheSmallScaleGroupsCanDecideThat.
Zerging is actually 3v1 as it takes 3 Zerglings to kill 1 Protoss Zealot.3 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Some people play because they want to role play a certain faction and win the campaign. Other people play because they want to PvP and get the toughest fights.
There’s nothing wrong with either strategy. Zerglings can certainly play the campaign the way they want to. I don’t resent them for it and I don’t send them hate tells for it. Without them I’d never get to fight outnumbered.
The only thing I’d say to the players like @Biro123 and @Berenhir is that in the if you’re not in a group and have an “If it’s not of the same alliance as me it’s dead no matter what” attitude, then you’re not really a soloer. You can call yourself that all you want, but the “PvP community” will mock you for it. Real soloers prefer to fight by themselves. If you run around attacking everything you see, and sometimes you’re by yourself and sometimes you are inside of a horde of your alliance members, you’re not a soloer, you’re just really unorganized and uncoordinated with the rest of your alliance’s zerg.
Ah, the usual argument shifts to semantics as elitism rears its head again.. Well in that case, I raise you with 'Zergling' - under the definition of outnumbering your opponent by 4 or more - which is what most 'small-scalers' do against PeopleWhoAreUngroupedButArentAllowedToCallThemselvesSoloerBecauseOnlyTheSmallScaleGroupsCanDecideThat.
People can call themselves whatever they want to call themselves.
And it’s not semantics.. a soloer is someone who prefers to fight solo.
Many zerglings think that “ungrouped” is synonymous with “solo.” It isn’t, and pointing that out isn’t nit-picking with semantics, it’s clarifying a very straightforward concept to people who obfuscate the two in order to preserve their ego.
And many elitists think that sometimes zerging = always zerging.
I see plenty of small-scalers in the middle of a huge zergs - yet when they are on their own, running in circles around a tower, I call them small-scalers. Yet, for anyone solo, according to these forums, its once a Zergling, always a Zergling?Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.1 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Some people play because they want to role play a certain faction and win the campaign. Other people play because they want to PvP and get the toughest fights.
There’s nothing wrong with either strategy. Zerglings can certainly play the campaign the way they want to. I don’t resent them for it and I don’t send them hate tells for it. Without them I’d never get to fight outnumbered.
The only thing I’d say to the players like @Biro123 and @Berenhir is that in the if you’re not in a group and have an “If it’s not of the same alliance as me it’s dead no matter what” attitude, then you’re not really a soloer. You can call yourself that all you want, but the “PvP community” will mock you for it. Real soloers prefer to fight by themselves. If you run around attacking everything you see, and sometimes you’re by yourself and sometimes you are inside of a horde of your alliance members, you’re not a soloer, you’re just really unorganized and uncoordinated with the rest of your alliance’s zerg.
Ah, the usual argument shifts to semantics as elitism rears its head again.. Well in that case, I raise you with 'Zergling' - under the definition of outnumbering your opponent by 4 or more - which is what most 'small-scalers' do against PeopleWhoAreUngroupedButArentAllowedToCallThemselvesSoloerBecauseOnlyTheSmallScaleGroupsCanDecideThat.
People can call themselves whatever they want to call themselves.
And it’s not semantics.. a soloer is someone who prefers to fight solo.
Many zerglings think that “ungrouped” is synonymous with “solo.” It isn’t, and pointing that out isn’t nit-picking with semantics, it’s clarifying a very straightforward concept to people who obfuscate the two in order to preserve their ego.
And many elitists think that sometimes zerging = always zerging.
I see plenty of small-scalers in the middle of a huge zergs - yet when they are on their own, running in circles around a tower, I call them small-scalers. Yet, for anyone solo, according to these forums, its once a Zergling, always a Zergling?
Everyone starts PvP as a zergling.
But if you consistently see a small-scale group inside of a zerg, i wouldn't call it a small scale group for the exact same reason i wouldn't call an 'ungrouped' player inside of a zerg a 'solo' player.
PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp2 -
Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
✭Not a fan of labeling players, because it is too restricted to describe the variety of players and playstyles.
But what is still a relevant point for me when with a small grp is, whether an approaching player is a potential threat or not. And with potential i mean, will he join his allies to outnumber us or not? If i know he won't, then he isn't a threat to my grp and there is little reason to "zerg" him. Even if it might be a player who often runs with a zerg - but prefers to fight other zergs when doing so, instead of hunting outnumbered players. But if the player is just counting on reinforcements to overwhelm us with numbers, then it is smarter to kill him before those numbers become too much for us to handle. If i don't know a player, i will usually assume he belongs to the second type of players, simply because those are much more common. But everyone is free to prove me wrong. If you don't want to do that, that's ok, but you are going to face the logical consequences as described above. Just keep in mind, it is nothing personal. For me at least.Edited by Rianai on July 26, 2018 5:28PM1 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Not a fan of labeling players, because it is too restricted to describe the variety of players and playstyles.
But what is still a relevant point for me when with a small grp is, whether an approaching player is a potential threat or not. And with potential i mean, will he join his allies to outnumber us or not? If i know he won't, then he isn't a threat to my grp and there is little reason to "zerg" him. Even if it might be a player who often runs with a zerg - but prefers to fight other zergs when doing so, instead of hunting outnumbered players. But if the player is just counting on reinforcements to overwhelm us with numbers, then it is smarter to kill him before those numbers become too much for us to handle. If i don't know a player, i will usually assume he belongs to the second type of players, simply because those are much more common. But everyone is free to prove me wrong. If you don't want to do that, that's ok, but you are going to face the logical consequences as described above. Just keep in mind, it is nothing personal. For me at least.
Well said.
*teleports behind you*
PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭generalmyrick wrote: »TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »There is a HUGE difference in 4 people chasing down 1 guy, to 40 people chasing down 1 guy. VERY, VERY large difference.
There is no meaningful difference, if it is okay for 4 guys to chase 1 guy down then it is okay for 40 to chase down 4, you think it is somehow "fair" or "skilful" for 4 guys to chase 1 down, but suddenly it becomes "unfair" and "unskilled" if 40 do it to 4, there is a word for that - hypocrisy.And no, NB's and Sorcs probably have it worse for open world (When its comes to Xv1), as a LOT of NB's rely on cloak, and with sets like Sloads.. they cant cloak, and Sorcs rely on shields.. which keeping up with 25k worth of shields while taking prolly a good 30k+ DPS from 20+ different people, shields arnt strong anymore.
LOL, Sloads and cloak is a temporary thing that is getting fixed, as for 20+ different people that isn't smallscale so who cares, there is a reason NB and sorc have always been ez-mode for smallscale because they can disengage much more effectively than the other classes (or barely even have to engage on certain builds) so have low risk and high reward, which is exactly why there is no shortage of either them.And yes, Zergs and horrible lag/game issues is why small scaling is dying off.
Smallscale dies off in nearly every RvR game for the reasons I gave previously, save your excuses, when your little group zergs down 1 guy like good little zerglings, then you are killing smallscale just as much as a zerg chasing down your little group is, take some responsibility for your actions.
Oh yeah, which do you play NB or Sorc?
Well said...
There are a lot of hypocrites in this game and your post perfectly exposes their hypocrisy...
Basically what they do to "own" is ok and acceptable, but if they get owned in a way they don't like its a problem that needs to be fixed...
LoL...
Most small scalers I know leave soloers alone. Not sure where this hostility is coming from. I’ve heard that on PC EU it’s dofferent and everyone attacks everyone else, but on PC NA most small scalers leave known solo players alone.
The problem arises when you come across certain solo players that are known for zerging. Once you get that reputation, you’re fair game.
If you’re solo and get killed by my group message me and say that you’re solo. If you’re solo and standing next to a bunch of other solos, just remember that we can’t tell who’s grouped with who and understand that if you’re a real solo you wouldn’t be next to people from your alliance anyway.
In my experience the people that whine the most about getting zerged down by small scalers while solo are soloers only in the sense that they tend to stand next to other soloers and then they all solo the same opponents together at the same time...
Actual solo players will make an active effort to stay away from other players in their own alliance so that nobody “adds” onto their fights. They also won’t add onto other people / groups fights. Those are the soloers we respect and do not steamroll.
Fascinating...
It establishes a sort of hierarchy...pecking order.
I have a question i hope can be answered!
One person clearly by themselves and not a know zerger is safe.
One person that is by themselves that has been known to zerg is not safe.
Zergs are just overwhelming numbers right?
If a small group...4? Overwhelms one person that is an evil zerger...doesnt that make the small group highly similar to a zerg?
Is there a sort of moral protection around a small group that protects them from criticism?
I love psychology and this is interesting!
Oh! One more...what is a "small group?" i said someone was zerging once and they seemed to get highly offended and said, "i'm NEVER in a group larger than 6!"
It has less to do with how many are in your group and more to do with your attitude towards cyrodil / PvP when you come across a fight that's already in progress.
If you're running around and you see 5 people fighting 10 people, and the 10 people are in the same alliance as you, a small scaler and soloer will not become the 11th person in that fight. A zergling will.
If you see an outnumbered fight and jump into it to make it even more outnumbered, you get labelled as a zergling.
If you see an outnumbered fight and leave it alone, you're a small scaler/ soloer.
That applies for both soloers and small scalers. If you see a lopsided fight and make it even more lopsided, regardless of if you're solo or in a group, you get labeled a zergling.
If you're a smallscaler and a soloer, and you outnumber your opponents, you're not really a small scaler and/or a soloer. That's especially true if you hit an existing fight and cause it to be even more lopsided. It's just not honorable, not indicative of skill, and is a meaningless win.
But if all you care about is the alliance map, then sure... it makes sense. Thats how some people choose to play the game. And i choose to call those people zerglings.
This is a matter of opinion in every aspect. Part of this post seems to acknowledge that perspective is everything and none if it is actually defined as many try to make it out to be.0 -
Datthaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭This thread is just stupid.
What this thread says is small scale players let eachother go because you know, "balanced fight" so they can farm new players. Solo players should never be seen or they are zerglings and can't do anything to help thier faction. Solo/small scalers can belittle people by calling them zerglings but you're not allowed to all them elitist because they are better and know more.
But the whole topic of this thread is just idiotic, you want to run small scale and solo, in cyro, an alliance vs alliance war... you knowingly put yourself at a disadvantage. But then cry that you have it unfair because you're outnumbered and want a crutch. It's just....the most idiotic egotistical thing ever.8 -
CyrusArya✭✭✭✭✭
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But the whole topic of this thread is just idiotic, you want to run small scale and solo, in cyro, an alliance vs alliance war... you knowingly put yourself at a disadvantage. But then cry that you have it unfair because you're outnumbered and want a crutch. It's just....the most idiotic egotistical thing ever.
The actual small scalers have said as much in this thread if you pay attention.
And FYI, the more notable small scale outfits tend to specifically seek outnumbered fights vs experienced, geared, high level opponents for their content. Just because respectable players don’t zerg eachother down doesn’t mean we only seek out easy wins.
Ultimately, what alliance war roleplayers and zerglings need to understand is that small scale and outnumbered pvp is the most difficult and challenging content in the game, hard stop. It is often very frustrating. There may sometimes be drama and rivalries between certain squads, but at the end of the day there is a certain unspoken common bond and respect that develops from experiencing the same obstacles and challenges over time. That’s why we don’t add on to each other’s fights, because we understand each others pain and objectives.Edited by CyrusArya on July 26, 2018 11:11PM1 -
Datthaw✭✭✭✭✭
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But the whole topic of this thread is just idiotic, you want to run small scale and solo, in cyro, an alliance vs alliance war... you knowingly put yourself at a disadvantage. But then cry that you have it unfair because you're outnumbered and want a crutch. It's just....the most idiotic egotistical thing ever.
The actual small scalers have said as much in this thread if you pay attention.
And FYI, the more notable small scale outfits tend to specifically seek outnumbered fights vs experienced, geared, high level opponents for their content. Just because respectable players don’t zerg eachother down doesn’t mean we only seek out easy wins.
Ultimately, what alliance war roleplayers and zerglings need to understand is that small scale and outnumbered pvp is the most difficult and challenging content in the game, hard stop. It is often very frustrating. There may sometimes be drama and rivalries between certain squads, but at the end of the day there is a certain unspoken common bond and respect that develops from experiencing the same obstacles and challenges over time. That’s why we don’t add on to each other’s fights, because we understand each others pain and objectives.
Lol ty for cherry picking my opinion on the thread topic and using it as the basis of your condescending response4 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Small scalers only let other small scalers go if those other small scalers are already fighting a large group.
The whole point of small scale is to seek out challenging fights where the odds are against you, and to use teamwork and skill to overcome and win.
There’s nothing challenging for a small scale group to attack another small scale group that’s already outnumbered. That would be an easy, meaningless win. If they aren’t fighting though then yeah we’ll hit them. We’ve fought each other more than we’ve fought anyone else.
The small scaler’s objective is to get challenging fights. We don’t care about the alliance map.
Like the well-known MagSorc @CyrusArya said, none of us are complaining about being outnumbered or having the odds against us. There are certain mechanics we’d like to tweak so that we would have a shot at taking on even larger numbers, but we’re not mad at the “for the covenant!” or “for the pact!” players for playing the way they do. We don’t get mad at them for adding onto fights either. They aren’t small scalers and that’s OK - without them we wouldn’t be able to make the epic 4v20 vids that we like to spam on these boards.
Some of the people in this post that are talking as if they were small scalers are not actually small scalers and are considered zerglings by myself and famous mag-sorc main @CyrusArya . Can’t call them out because of naming and shaming.
But datthaw.. we’re not whining about being outnumbered. We prefer being outnumbered. If you ever watch my stream when I’m in a group, you’ll hear me often say that we need to get away from the EP zerg... but I’m EP! I swear the EP Zerg likes to follow me around just to ruin my fights lol.PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp1 -
Datthaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭Small scalers only let other small scalers go if those other small scalers are already fighting a large group.
The whole point of small scale is to seek out challenging fights where the odds are against you, and to use teamwork and skill to overcome and win.
There’s nothing challenging for a small scale group to attack another small scale group that’s already outnumbered. That would be an easy, meaningless win. If they aren’t fighting though then yeah we’ll hit them. We’ve fought each other more than we’ve fought anyone else.
The small scaler’s objective is to get challenging fights. We don’t care about the alliance map.
Like the well-known MagSorc @CyrusArya said, none of us are complaining about being outnumbered or having the odds against us. There are certain mechanics we’d like to tweak so that we would have a shot at taking on even larger numbers, but we’re not mad at the “for the covenant!” or “for the pact!” players for playing the way they do. We don’t get mad at them for adding onto fights either. They aren’t small scalers and that’s OK - without them we wouldn’t be able to make the epic 4v20 vids that we like to spam on these boards.
Some of the people in this post that are talking as if they were small scalers are not actually small scalers and are considered zerglings by myself and famous mag-sorc main @CyrusArya . Can’t call them out because of naming and shaming.
But datthaw.. we’re not whining about being outnumbered. We prefer being outnumbered. If you ever watch my stream when I’m in a group, you’ll hear me often say that we need to get away from the EP zerg... but I’m EP! I swear the EP Zerg likes to follow me around just to ruin my fights lol.
I totally get that, I don't like to be in big zergs alot either, hell just because of lag for starters. But I feel, and I'm probably gonna get flak for this, but the small scale attitude can be very toxic for what cyro is supposed to be. Alot of better players feel they can't ever contribute to the campaign or for fear of being labeled. I love small scale, I love dueling, hell were in legend together. But you know what is also fun? Taking your magblade into a massive siege and seeing how many siege you can burn. Patrolling the edges of keep fights hunting for fc to burn and killing who you can on the way. Being the 1st through a defended inner to knock all the oilers off the keep. I find things like that to be a blast, absolute enjoyment, but in get a label for it because I'm playing with alot of others.
Just my 2 cents
Edit: it also doesn't help that most good players have been playing the same map for years and have lost interest due to lack of incentive. But that's a separate issue...kinda.Edited by Datthaw on July 27, 2018 3:24AM2 -
Extinct_Solo_Player✭✭✭✭✭I love these faction loyalists so delusional and arrogant. I know its hard to accept that there is variety in pvp, not everyone likes to play the same damn map for the faction bullcrap for 4 damn years and I'm pretty sure some skilled smallscalers have destroyed you 1vx for you chase them down with your "duo" of 24 people. Theres such thing has having a challenge which is smallscaling compared to uber noob 1 button zerging which it essentially is compared to the amount of things solo/small-scale players have to do outnumbered.Edited by Extinct_Solo_Player on July 27, 2018 5:47AM0
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IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »I love these faction loyalists so delusional and arrogant. I know its hard to accept that there is variety in pvp, not everyone likes to play the same damn map for the faction bullcrap for 4 damn years and I'm pretty sure some skilled smallscalers have destroyed you 1vx for you chase them down with your "duo" of 24 people. Theres such thing has having a challenge which is smallscaling compared to uber noob 1 button zerging which it essentially is compared to the amount of things solo/small-scale players have to do outnumbered.
I think anyone can say the same to you about delusions of grandeur and arrogance given this attitude though. Not everyone likes to play the smallscale 24/7. I've seen some well known names among hoards of players from their respective factions as well. I play every type. From solo to large group. There's fun to be had in all playstyles. There's a fun in being in 16 players raid and busting 30~100 people, there's fun in 4~6 players group busting 20~30 people, there's fun in 1v1~3. And not everyone wants to play this game for smallscale when it was advertised for large battles despite the servers being donkey poo. Or some people will have to play in larger groups because on their own, their pings just do not allow them to function at all.
I do believe that true smallscalers really don't post this sort of post. Mind you, I am not gonna identify myself as a smallscaler as I do enjoy zergsurf to get to the ensured action spots or just join my pvp guild groups that can vary from 4~24. But I do believe that true smallscalers enjoy action as much as any zerglings out there. Just the way they have their fun is different. True smallscalers I encounter from time to time, in complete solo or in a group of any size are not really this aggressive and are very chill. All because they are just looking for good fights and test themselves out. Don't denounce anyone for their ways of looking for action.Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel6 -
kessik221✭✭✭If you don't like running zergs maybe try running the pvp they designed for small scale. The whole point of cyrodil is a massive player seige based pvp system.0
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Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭IZZEFlameLash wrote: »Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »I love these faction loyalists so delusional and arrogant. I know its hard to accept that there is variety in pvp, not everyone likes to play the same damn map for the faction bullcrap for 4 damn years and I'm pretty sure some skilled smallscalers have destroyed you 1vx for you chase them down with your "duo" of 24 people. Theres such thing has having a challenge which is smallscaling compared to uber noob 1 button zerging which it essentially is compared to the amount of things solo/small-scale players have to do outnumbered.
I think anyone can say the same to you about delusions of grandeur and arrogance given this attitude though. Not everyone likes to play the smallscale 24/7. I've seen some well known names among hoards of players from their respective factions as well. I play every type. From solo to large group. There's fun to be had in all playstyles. There's a fun in being in 16 players raid and busting 30~100 people, there's fun in 4~6 players group busting 20~30 people, there's fun in 1v1~3. And not everyone wants to play this game for smallscale when it was advertised for large battles despite the servers being donkey poo. Or some people will have to play in larger groups because on their own, their pings just do not allow them to function at all.
I do believe that true smallscalers really don't post this sort of post. Mind you, I am not gonna identify myself as a smallscaler as I do enjoy zergsurf to get to the ensured action spots or just join my pvp guild groups that can vary from 4~24. But I do believe that true smallscalers enjoy action as much as any zerglings out there. Just the way they have their fun is different. True smallscalers I encounter from time to time, in complete solo or in a group of any size are not really this aggressive and are very chill. All because they are just looking for good fights and test themselves out. Don't denounce anyone for their ways of looking for action.
That goes both ways though.. I judge people by what they are currently doing. If they are solo or in a small group outnumbered, they are small-scaling. If the same people are surrounded or on the edge of a zerg, they are zerging. If they are in a small group fighting individuals, they are zerging.
Many players do a mix of these - so permanently applying a label to someone based on part of their activities is just wrong.
Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.3 -
Gulkrim-mur✭✭✭So we all know that since zergs like to chase 1-4 people from Daggerfall to Ebonheart, with 40+ people. Its stupid, but they do it. They have LOADS of damage because.. well... lots of people.
Proposing and idea to help us solo players / small scallers, and so that solo/small scale wont die off, as it slowly is.
In game mechanic is, 5+ people is considered a LARGE group. Whether you agree or not, it is. So, i was figuring, -1% damage done for every player past 4 players (Cyro only). So if youre in a 24 man group, everyone in it will lose a total of 20% damage done. To me, this seems fair, as you got literally 23 other people to rely on for damage. Imho, this will start to revive solo and small scale play.
I understand people might say "Then people just wont start grouping" and then thats fine, if they cant group, itll be easier to lose the zerg, since the zerglings wont see a crown to follow.
And sure, the small scallers that run the 5-6 man groups will get a reduction, but itll only be 1-2% which is nothing.
This is to affect the zergs, while also benefiting small scallers. Also promoting small scale, as rewarding them with no damage reduction if they run in a group of 4 or less.
Let me know of your thoughts on this.
Edit; Better title
Idk seems little strong imo maybe limit group count in cyro. Full heal on group members half on non group near by0 -
Skoomah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Solo and small groups need to stop asking for the ability to take on large groups / raids. The game’s balancing is not perfect but much better than before when one person could wipe 8 people. The game takes into account numbers just as much as skill now.
And in general, it’s also much harder to 1vX now because the player base has gotten better overall. 4 years in, there are much more seasoned war veterans.Edited by Skoomah on July 27, 2018 12:16PM1 -
kaithuzar✭✭✭✭✭
✭The-Baconator wrote: »From someone who really started to drift away from the game back during TG and DB, I don't really get the complaints that the game is stacked so heavily toward larger groups at the moment. Destro ult has been toned down significantly and there are now plenty of viable options on the table for groups of various classes to take 4-5 people and fight +20. No AoE caps for damage while the 6 man cap for healing persists, even though that wasn't\isn't as much of a problem as people think. Solo is another matter entirely, but I would argue that main problem is shared between both playstyles.
Right now I find that it's difficult to get the scale of fights that your looking for everyone in pretty much every setting. For solo maybe you want 3-5 players that aren't completely incompetent while in a 5 man group you want a 24 man pug or 8-15 players that have some clue what they're doing depending on how decent they are. The problem isn't the balance between the scenarios, as in can group X counter bigger group Y, but that group X struggles to get fights of that scale consistently. When you're solo and get hunted down by +10 players or when you're in a 4-5 man group you regularly have two full groups end up on top of you. These are odds that I think most people would concede should almost certainly fall in favor of the zerg the majority of the time, with the possibility of pulling a miracle off every now and then. This is really part of the essence\fun of an open world PvP setting, sometimes you bite off more than you can chew and end up pulling off a crazy win or dying horribly, that's just how it is. In my mind the real question that ZOS needs to answer is what changes can they make to make it easier to find fights of a reasonable scale in Cyrodiil more reliably, rather than making it easier to take 5 people and wipe 50.
On that end they really need to rethink the way players are incentivized to act\play in Cyrodiil, specifically how drastically inflated the AP players get when they both taking and defending a keep successfully, ie win. For an average players\group, when putting up a good fight against an even opponent but loosing rewards you with nothing but a measly amount of AP and an unwanted horse ride while winning nets you what's probably around +10x they ap you would get for loosing along with the general feeling of winning, they will choose the option that maximizes wins and limits the chances of loosing. Considering most players in Cyrodiil, certainly those playing the map, are of a similar skill level this means the best way to ensure you get the best result possible is only fight when you outnumber someone enough that you know you'll probably win. If ZOS for example would actually incentivize players that aren't in the elite portion of the player base to actually look for fights that are semi challenges (for them) through things like AP\tick changes.
Additionally it wouldn't hurt for them to give the patriots of the three alliances reasons to actually think, "We can't port up to Arrius and zerg those 5 guys at the mine, we're about to steal a scroll!" I miss the days when someone popping a gate and going for a scroll was an event of potential dethrone level interest for both of the alliances involved rather a quick trot to pick up a nearly undefended scroll or a quick siege on a keep that was only taken by a single group for the O-tick. Giving larger groups something to go after besides AP and small scallers they have beef with would do wonders to open up new opportunities for fights for everyone.
While I didn’t read everything,
Your comment inspired an idea.
WHAT IF...
There was a mode of Cyrodiil that you COULD NOT QUEUE into?!?!
It’s a “ranked campaign”, no matter if you are in a group or solo, you kills vs deaths in the other campaigns are on a counter/timer which would eventually allow you into the “boosted/final campaign”, better rewards, get the title of the best pvper, & it’s tied to a timer, so you have to maintain the ability to continue playing in that campaign as players are rotated out.
Oh you haven’t been online for 48-72 hours, gotta improve/demonstrate a valid kill vs death (kdr) ratio!
If ZOS wanted, this “final competitive pvp mode could even be in the imperial city”!
There would need to be discussion over whether the pve mobs were removed or not, but how cool would it be to instead of having mobs, have traps?
Pvp/1vX where there is a random swinging scythe or a trap door #fall damage, etc...
How does this sound?!
@ZOS_BrianWheeler
-KaiEdited by kaithuzar on July 27, 2018 1:58PMMember of:
Fantasia - osh kosh b-josh
Just Chill - Crown's house
GoldCloaks - Durruthy test server penga
Small Meme Guild - Mano's house
Former member of:
Legend - Siffer fan boy club
TKO (tamriel knight's order) - free bks
Deviance - Leonard's senche tiger
Purple - hamNchz is my hero
Eight Divines - myrlifax stop playing final fantasy
WKB (we kill bosses) - turd where you go?
Arcance Council - Klytz Kommander
World Boss - Mike & Chewy gone EP
M12 (majestic twelve) - cult of the loli zerg0 -
Irylia✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »There is a HUGE difference in 4 people chasing down 1 guy, to 40 people chasing down 1 guy. VERY, VERY large difference.
There is no meaningful difference, if it is okay for 4 guys to chase 1 guy down then it is okay for 40 to chase down 4, you think it is somehow "fair" or "skilful" for 4 guys to chase 1 down, but suddenly it becomes "unfair" and "unskilled" if 40 do it to 4, there is a word for that - hypocrisy.And no, NB's and Sorcs probably have it worse for open world (When its comes to Xv1), as a LOT of NB's rely on cloak, and with sets like Sloads.. they cant cloak, and Sorcs rely on shields.. which keeping up with 25k worth of shields while taking prolly a good 30k+ DPS from 20+ different people, shields arnt strong anymore.
LOL, Sloads and cloak is a temporary thing that is getting fixed, as for 20+ different people that isn't smallscale so who cares, there is a reason NB and sorc have always been ez-mode for smallscale because they can disengage much more effectively than the other classes (or barely even have to engage on certain builds) so have low risk and high reward, which is exactly why there is no shortage of either them.And yes, Zergs and horrible lag/game issues is why small scaling is dying off.
Smallscale dies off in nearly every RvR game for the reasons I gave previously, save your excuses, when your little group zergs down 1 guy like good little zerglings, then you are killing smallscale just as much as a zerg chasing down your little group is, take some responsibility for your actions.
Oh yeah, which do you play NB or Sorc?
Well said...
There are a lot of hypocrites in this game and your post perfectly exposes their hypocrisy...
Basically what they do to "own" is ok and acceptable, but if they get owned in a way they don't like its a problem that needs to be fixed...
LoL...
Most small scalers I know leave soloers alone. Not sure where this hostility is coming from. I’ve heard that on PC EU it’s dofferent and everyone attacks everyone else, but on PC NA most small scalers leave known solo players alone.
The problem arises when you come across certain solo players that are known for zerging. Once you get that reputation, you’re fair game.
If you’re solo and get killed by my group message me and say that you’re solo. If you’re solo and standing next to a bunch of other solos, just remember that we can’t tell who’s grouped with who and understand that if you’re a real solo you wouldn’t be next to people from your alliance anyway.
In my experience the people that whine the most about getting zerged down by small scalers while solo are soloers only in the sense that they tend to stand next to other soloers and then they all solo the same opponents together at the same time...
Actual solo players will make an active effort to stay away from other players in their own alliance so that nobody “adds” onto their fights. They also won’t add onto other people / groups fights. Those are the soloers we respect and do not steamroll.
These rules are stupid.. Yay! lets give the 'good' players an easy ride by not attacking them with other 'good' players - let them fight only scrubs so they can stay 'good'.. Yay for cliques and elitism!
Or attack everyone and get hated for it.
Or don't help your team-mates and get hated for it.
If you aren’t in my group you aren’t my teammate. You may as well be a different faction at that point because I’d kill you for ap if I could.
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MalagenR✭✭✭✭✭I don't get all the crying. If you play in Cyro for around 2 weeks it's very easy to determine where to find small scale PVP.
1. Around the edges of major conflict zones, occasionally someone will take the road less traveled and you get a nice 1v1, 1v2, or 2v2, etc.
2. Towns - literally every town flip starts with a 1v1 or a 1v2 - yes the zerg eventually arrives, but you still get your small scale fight
3. Resources - back capping enemy resources always brings 2-3 players out - if small scalers think they are special for killing the 3 noobs who get drawn out of the back capped rss keep well.... it just confirms what most everyone in this thread has stated - you're being egotistical.
Take your L's to the zerg and stfu1 -
ItsNebula✭✭✭✭✭Solo and small groups need to stop asking for the ability to take on large groups / raids. The game’s balancing is not perfect but much better than before when one person could wipe 8 people. The game takes into account numbers just as much as skill now.
And in general, it’s also much harder to 1vX now because the player base has gotten better overall. 4 years in, there are much more seasoned war veterans.
The player base of ESO hasnt gotten better at ALL. Its dying because ZOS cant fix there game at all.
Its a LOT like the WoW player base, people come back for a little bit when a DLC/Expansion releases... then they leave again because of performance issues / lag.
Shor used to be full - almost full all the time, even when Vivec wasnt pop locked.
Now? Shor is DEAD unless Vivec is pop locked, or really laggy / zergy.0
This discussion has been closed.