"CHANCE" of dropping monster helmet/shoulder outfit pages

Stinkyremy · July 2018

What is this "chance"
Is this game a gambling simulator in game now! We already have gambling "lootboxes"
Do I have to spend 200 keys and do crypt of heart 400 times for my "chance" to drop.
This is luck, not chance, a big difference.
ZOS can you just clear this mess up please, take away the chance, just drop the crappy items.

Hulda · July 2018

They are tradeable at really low prices even now 1 day after release, they'll drop for over a month. They'll cost close to nothing soon so stop whining. Btw, who would use that ugly style anyway?

Stinkyremy · July 2018

Hulda wrote: »

They are tradeable at really low prices even now 1 day after release, they'll drop for over a month. They'll cost close to nothing soon so stop whining. Btw, who would use that ugly style anyway?

It's BS they should just drop. 1 coh run and 1 key, simple

Hulda · July 2018

Stinkyremy wrote: »

Hulda wrote: »

They are tradeable at really low prices even now 1 day after release, they'll drop for over a month. They'll cost close to nothing soon so stop whining. Btw, who would use that ugly style anyway?

It's BS they should just drop. 1 coh run and 1 key, simple

Do you even want to play game at all? Lets make it as PTS, get everything on start and be done.

Stinkyremy · July 2018

Hulda wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

Hulda wrote: »

They are tradeable at really low prices even now 1 day after release, they'll drop for over a month. They'll cost close to nothing soon so stop whining. Btw, who would use that ugly style anyway?

It's BS they should just drop. 1 coh run and 1 key, simple

Do you even want to play game at all? Lets make it as PTS, get everything on start and be done.

Are you new to this game?
There is RNG, then there is chance. Chance is BS, it is left ambiguous so that we don't know how much time or effort is required to aquire an item.
When events or timed stuff happens, normally the odds are laid out by zos. This thing, the official notice is just "chance"

Kiralyn2000 · July 2018

Stinkyremy wrote: »

What is this "chance"
Is this game a gambling simulator in game now! We already have gambling "lootboxes"
Do I have to spend 200 keys and do crypt of heart 400 times for my "chance" to drop.
This is luck, not chance, a big difference.
ZOS can you just clear this mess up please, take away the chance, just drop the crappy items.

...you do know that random loot has existed in RPGs & MMOs for decades, right?

I remember the raiding guilds back in the early days of WoW, taking 40 people to kill that final boss that would drop 3 pieces of meaningful loot. Class-specific set pieces to be auctioned off between the 3-6 people of each class that came along. And all this on a week-long lockout.

People talked about running the dungeon with their group for 6+ months without even seeing the piece they were looking for drop. (And then when it did drop, they had to compete with the other 4, oh, Shamans that were in the raid). And it got worse when they made the first "legendary" item quests, where you had to collect a bunch of rare drop items across multiple raids. Many raids never got all the parts.

Reminds me that people playing Diablo & similar games call bosses "loot pinatas" - go punch the loot container repeatedly in hopes that something good pops out.

So, yeah.

What's new about this, at all? Besides the fact that you decided to compare it to lootboxes in hopes of generating outrage?

pauli133 · July 2018

Stinkyremy wrote: »

Hulda wrote: »

They are tradeable at really low prices even now 1 day after release, they'll drop for over a month. They'll cost close to nothing soon so stop whining. Btw, who would use that ugly style anyway?

It's BS they should just drop. 1 coh run and 1 key, simple

If you want guaranteed loot, you're playing the wrong game.

inthecoconut · July 2018

tl;dr: If the method for acquiring the specific item doesn't interest you, then just don't do it to begin with.

I found out the hard way that RNG will push me to the edge of complete insanity. During the Witches Festival, between my friends and I, we must have opened hundreds upon hundreds of those stupid skull bags. We endured mind-numbing hours and days of grinding delve bosses in Vile Manse. Just..running in circles, over and over. Not one of us got a mask which is what we were after. I was so burnt out and frustrated by the end of it, that I didn't pick the game back up for 6 months. I felt crushed that I wasted so much time doing something I didn't enjoy, just to get nothing out of it. I didn't quit out of spite and rage, I just felt sour after that experience and couldn't remember why I enjoyed playing ESO in the first place so I stopped.

I'm back, and I'm enjoying the game again, because I am not devoting all my time and effort into acquiring that one thing. For some people, having their sole purpose revolve around one item might work for them, but I learned the hard way that I am not one of those people. So now I devote my time to doing only the things I want to do. For me, its the opposite, and the end has to justify the means, and running the same content over and over for a chance at something isn't justification to do it. Will I do a few dungeon runs and hope that I get a motif? Sure, but it wont be my sole purpose for playing the game, and I'll be sure to limit my attempts per day so as to not repeat my earlier mistakes.

Malacthulhu · July 2018

I think I don't care, if I want it bad enough I will buy it. Otherwise, if I get it I get it, if not, oh well. I get this might be annoying for completionists but, I am sure you could just farm x amount of gold in less time and just buy it off another player which in a way makes it garanteed etc. Theb save your keys for the one you really want that might be expensive however obviously the helm is a different issue but, at least at the point you do not have to buy the shoulders too.

Stinkyremy · July 2018

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

What is this "chance"
Is this game a gambling simulator in game now! We already have gambling "lootboxes"
Do I have to spend 200 keys and do crypt of heart 400 times for my "chance" to drop.
This is luck, not chance, a big difference.
ZOS can you just clear this mess up please, take away the chance, just drop the crappy items.

...you do know that random loot has existed in RPGs & MMOs for decades, right?

I remember the raiding guilds back in the early days of WoW, taking 40 people to kill that final boss that would drop 3 pieces of meaningful loot. Class-specific set pieces to be auctioned off between the 3-6 people of each class that came along. And all this on a week-long lockout.

People talked about running the dungeon with their group for 6+ months without even seeing the piece they were looking for drop. (And then when it did drop, they had to compete with the other 4, oh, Shamans that were in the raid). And it got worse when they made the first "legendary" item quests, where you had to collect a bunch of rare drop items across multiple raids. Many raids never got all the parts.

Reminds me that people playing Diablo & similar games call bosses "loot pinatas" - go punch the loot container repeatedly in hopes that something good pops out.

So, yeah.

What's new about this, at all? Besides the fact that you decided to compare it to lootboxes in hopes of generating outrage?

What is new about this is we have 1 month to acquire these meaningless items. Why then make it a small chance to drop.
Imagine you have 500 keys, you spent 499 of them then finally got the shoulder outfit style. So that took you minimum of 249 pledges to get it, that is 249 dungeon runs.
Ok I'm used to grinding in this MMO. i grinded all my gear, but this petty timed exclusive outfit style is pointless. it takes more effort to get the thing than the thing is worth and it is for a limited time. Then on top of that, we have the PvP event, but more importantly, the next outfit motif will drop next month! you might not even have any keys left for that page, let alone the next month and so on.
Why not just make it 1 hard mode dungeon run, 1 key, you get it.
I could end up wasting all my keys and time getting these crappy outfit style pages. if they weren't timed, it wouldn't be a big deal, just a grind or slow progression like anything else, but it is timed, and most of us are too busy to grind for this crap.

ZeusChaos25 · July 2018

Hulda wrote: »

They are tradeable at really low prices even now 1 day after release, they'll drop for over a month. They'll cost close to nothing soon so stop whining. Btw, who would use that ugly style anyway?

I've seen people selling them for 100k. Who's selling them for cheap?

Stinkyremy · July 2018

Malacthulhu wrote: »

I think I don't care, if I want it bad enough I will buy it. Otherwise, if I get it I get it, if not, oh well. I get this might be annoying for completionists but, I am sure you could just farm x amount of gold in less time and just buy it off another player which in a way makes it garanteed etc. Theb save your keys for the one you really want that might be expensive however obviously the helm is a different issue but, at least at the point you do not have to buy the shoulders too.

Yeah I will do the same. The only things I care about and spend my money on in this game are motifs, as I am a master crafter (not like crafters mean anything anyway as ZOS has took away our ability to profit from it) so I use my money to buy motifs.
I can't even be bothered to farm motifs, or do dalies, I just buy them, in most cases it takes less time to earn the money to buy them than to earn the motifs.
I can farm FL and SCP for the new motifs if I like, also make money selling them, but I can't be bothered. I will just grab the motifs in a few months when they are worth next to nothing, or pick them up as I play.
The issue here is as I said above that this timed event is "chance" and we could potentially waste all our time and effort acquiring these crappy things when they could have easily just gave it us for simply doing the dungeon and opening a chest.

Katahdin · July 2018

RNG/chance smiled on me this time

Got the helm on my first VCOH HM run and a shoulder with 13 keys.

For the helm, you have a better chance if you have the HM achieve already

Kuramas9tails · July 2018

I spent 2 keys and got two shoulders. 100% drop rate for me on the shoulders. I have over 100 keys anyways if I needed to open more.

Helmet on the other hand, 0/5 runs.

NolaArch · July 2018

I guess I got lucky like @Katahdin. I got the shoulder on the 3rd or fourth key with 360+ keys left for next month. I got the helm page on, I think, the second run?

mocap · July 2018

lowest price is 23k. Not that much if you realy need it.

karekiz · July 2018

I have no clue why this is even a limited time event. Or why its not 100% on HM tbh.

Classic dungeons need this sort of thing done all out. They need full motif packs the same way DLC ones do <ICP/WGT as well>. Even selling a motif page at 500 gold is something. Breaking down all the mats from the dungeon isn't a terrible reward as it helps you do dailies which can help you get gold upgrade mats, but there is just something rewarding about the motif system. New players going through dungeons will have at least something to get out of there instead of saying. "Neat monster set I won't use".

Ragebull · July 2018

If it's not a grind they'll unsub and never return - ZOS logic

D0PAMINE · July 2018

If anything, encourage more people to do it so you can just buy them

Apherius · July 2018

7 crypt of heart run HM no death speed ~ nothing.

I understand they want to keep dungeons interesting but" interesting ≠ fun " ..

If at least there was an " Xx_Hardcore_xX" mode with oneshot mechanics everywhere and 50% chance to get this mask page ... This would be fun.

But I fell like they are asking me to run naked arround Elden root 40 times ... with a 0,5% chance to get a soul gems lol.

ZeroXFF · July 2018

inthecoconut wrote: »

tl;dr: If the method for acquiring the specific item doesn't interest you, then just don't do it to begin with.

I found out the hard way that RNG will push me to the edge of complete insanity. During the Witches Festival, between my friends and I, we must have opened hundreds upon hundreds of those stupid skull bags. We endured mind-numbing hours and days of grinding delve bosses in Vile Manse. Just..running in circles, over and over. Not one of us got a mask which is what we were after. I was so burnt out and frustrated by the end of it, that I didn't pick the game back up for 6 months. I felt crushed that I wasted so much time doing something I didn't enjoy, just to get nothing out of it. I didn't quit out of spite and rage, I just felt sour after that experience and couldn't remember why I enjoyed playing ESO in the first place so I stopped.

I'm back, and I'm enjoying the game again, because I am not devoting all my time and effort into acquiring that one thing. For some people, having their sole purpose revolve around one item might work for them, but I learned the hard way that I am not one of those people. So now I devote my time to doing only the things I want to do. For me, its the opposite, and the end has to justify the means, and running the same content over and over for a chance at something isn't justification to do it. Will I do a few dungeon runs and hope that I get a motif? Sure, but it wont be my sole purpose for playing the game, and I'll be sure to limit my attempts per day so as to not repeat my earlier mistakes.

Perfect example of why time limited events suck when they give something you can't acquire outside of the events. These events have to be rare enough to feel like something special, but they only feel like a drag at this point. And now that they turn it into a monthly grind, they make spamming these events into a rule rather than an annoyingly frequent exception, as if that wasn't bad enough already.

@ZOS see here, you almost lost a customer because of it. Quit with this crap already, we're sick of it. Or do you want us to start dropping out and only sometimes coming back? Because that's the effect these events will have in the long run. And you know, people who quit out of frustration will not be as likely to recommend your game to their friends, even if they do come back. Make these styles as difficult to acquire as you like, but leave them in the game for everyone to be able to get them at their own pace and on their own terms.

Kiralyn2000 · July 2018

karekiz wrote: »

I have no clue why this is even a limited time event. Or why its not 100% on HM tbh.

Eh, I'm not sure if I'd call it a "limited time event"... they said they're going to change it each month. Kind of like the Luxury Furniture vendor and the Golden vendor change their stock each week. Sure, it's 'limited time', but it's not much of an "event". Of course, if they do many monster styles, the list would be so long that a style coming back again would take years, so that could be an issue.

I could see them having an actual 'event' next year, where they bring back all the styles from the last 12 months. Guess we'll see.

(and then there's the people who are doing a million dungeon runs the first couple days. It's a month. Do one or two runs a day. Why push and burn out?)

KraziJoe · July 2018

On the plus side...It's a quick and easy Dungeon...

Hokiewa · July 2018

Oh good grief....

majulook · July 2018

The worst thing about this is that as they add more "Shoulder Styles" its gonna add a lot more items to the RNG of the Undaunted chests, making it harder to get the item you want.

CGPsaint · July 2018

I ran in a group for 9 hours yesterday. Started with 1 Healer, 1 Tank, and 2 DPS. Finished with 4 DPS. In that time, only 2 people managed to snag a Helm Style Page. Figuring each run between 10-12 minutes tops, and you can figure out the drop rate for our group. That being said, we had two guys that got the shoulder on their first key, and another two that got it within 15 keys each.