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honestly tired of being *** by magsorcs
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Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ShadowProc wrote: »ShadowProc wrote: »Most magsorcs I know run destro/resto. How can you say “sorcs don’t have access to a good heal” when they have the entire resto line?
The only class that has access to snare immunity in their skills is Templar, as far as I know.
Every other class including nb’a gets it from:
Mist form
Shuffle
Forward momentum
Give up your cookie cutter playstyle if you want snare immunity.
Sorc self heals required criticals or dark deal. How does that stack up against other classes?
ITS NOT SUPPOSE TO. it's called shields. Stack max magicka for offense and defense.
LOL.
We don’t have self heals. ——> You’re not supposed to, you have shields.
Oblivion damage ignores shields. ——> Well, Slot a self heal!
Classic forum logic when it comes to Sorc nerf QQ.
Destro restro. So mutagen? No one build will counter everything. You have to invest in defense. Or don't. Just kill them first
If SORCs had access to a self heal how would they ever die behind those shields?
So ya lol you want to be invincible. You a fotm by chance?
Mutagen is so smart it hits everyone within 28m first. I want a reliable self heal. Not one I have to waste precious magicka on because I have to cast it 5 times before it hits me.
By the way, being a Sorc in noCP that doesn’t run Harness Magicka is as far from invincible as it can get. I also Main the class since 2014. Nice try though.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.2 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »the rune cage burst meta is horrible and offers 0 counterplay. stacking 30k damage with a undodgeable/unblockable cc is OP
fix runecage by making the sorcs not be able to shield if they have it slotted. why should you be able to one shot everyone if we cant do it back?
The one shot you speak of takes at least 8 button presses, 10, if you throw in the ultimate.
Really? 1. Haunting curse, 2. Meteor, 3. Rune cage, 4. Endless fury, 5. Crystal frag.
That's weird.... I can do it in 5.... must not be OP.
@Hutch679
Apparently you never learned to weave. Proving once again that most people complaining about sorcs have a L2P issue. If that combo kills you with no LA's or enchant damage, your defense is just horrible.Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »the rune cage burst meta is horrible and offers 0 counterplay. stacking 30k damage with a undodgeable/unblockable cc is OP
fix runecage by making the sorcs not be able to shield if they have it slotted. why should you be able to one shot everyone if we cant do it back?
The one shot you speak of takes at least 8 button presses, 10, if you throw in the ultimate.
Not unless you're running spinners, elegant and slim claw then it's only 3 buttons.
Runecage > Hardcast Frags, Overload. All three pieces hit at once.
Admittedly it took a lot of testing and tweaking to get my CP right but my Frag hits for 13k and overload 27k against my testing partner, who had 30k hp with 40k spell resist with 4k critical resist.....
@SirDopey
If you rune cage me then hard cast frags, I have broken free and dodgerolled both the frags and the overload with the same doderoll.Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on July 23, 2018 4:02PM2 -
Hutch679✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »the rune cage burst meta is horrible and offers 0 counterplay. stacking 30k damage with a undodgeable/unblockable cc is OP
fix runecage by making the sorcs not be able to shield if they have it slotted. why should you be able to one shot everyone if we cant do it back?
The one shot you speak of takes at least 8 button presses, 10, if you throw in the ultimate.
Really? 1. Haunting curse, 2. Meteor, 3. Rune cage, 4. Endless fury, 5. Crystal frag.
That's weird.... I can do it in 5.... must not be OP.
@Hutch679
Apparently you never learned to weave. Proving once again that most people complaining about sorcs have a L2P issue. If that combo kills you with no LA's or enchant damage, your defense is just horrible.Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »the rune cage burst meta is horrible and offers 0 counterplay. stacking 30k damage with a undodgeable/unblockable cc is OP
fix runecage by making the sorcs not be able to shield if they have it slotted. why should you be able to one shot everyone if we cant do it back?
The one shot you speak of takes at least 8 button presses, 10, if you throw in the ultimate.
Not unless you're running spinners, elegant and slim claw then it's only 3 buttons.
Runecage > Hardcast Frags, Overload. All three pieces hit at once.
Admittedly it took a lot of testing and tweaking to get my CP right but my Frag hits for 13k and overload 27k against my testing partner, who had 30k hp with 40k spell resist with 4k critical resist.....
@SirDopey
If you rune cage me then hard cast frags, I have broken free and dodgerolled both the frags and the overload with the same doderoll.
@Oreyn_Bearclaw > every player that's ever played any MMO. Because he is God and knows all. Can counter every counter and every argument.
I'm saying you can pull that combo and it kills people. It's not a matter of weaving or skill. Its numbers. A 7k meteor, a 3.5k haunting curse, a 4.5k crystal frag, a 2k endless fury is = 17k damage. That's drops about 90% of players into execute, proc implosion, and execute from endless fury.
You mentioned weaving attacks... lmao which just makes the combo wayyyyy stronger. Now you're for sure dropping them into execute.
The point is, EVEN WITHOUT WEAVING THE COMBO CAN KILL YOU. No [profanity removed] you should weave attacks. I was making a point. Everytime someone says something in hear it's taken out of context and made into something it's not. So your "L2P" issue is really a bunch of BS. Clearly you dont know how to "math".Edited by ZOS_AlexL on July 23, 2018 8:47PM0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »the rune cage burst meta is horrible and offers 0 counterplay. stacking 30k damage with a undodgeable/unblockable cc is OP
fix runecage by making the sorcs not be able to shield if they have it slotted. why should you be able to one shot everyone if we cant do it back?
The one shot you speak of takes at least 8 button presses, 10, if you throw in the ultimate.
Really? 1. Haunting curse, 2. Meteor, 3. Rune cage, 4. Endless fury, 5. Crystal frag.
That's weird.... I can do it in 5.... must not be OP.
@Hutch679
Apparently you never learned to weave. Proving once again that most people complaining about sorcs have a L2P issue. If that combo kills you with no LA's or enchant damage, your defense is just horrible.Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »the rune cage burst meta is horrible and offers 0 counterplay. stacking 30k damage with a undodgeable/unblockable cc is OP
fix runecage by making the sorcs not be able to shield if they have it slotted. why should you be able to one shot everyone if we cant do it back?
The one shot you speak of takes at least 8 button presses, 10, if you throw in the ultimate.
Not unless you're running spinners, elegant and slim claw then it's only 3 buttons.
Runecage > Hardcast Frags, Overload. All three pieces hit at once.
Admittedly it took a lot of testing and tweaking to get my CP right but my Frag hits for 13k and overload 27k against my testing partner, who had 30k hp with 40k spell resist with 4k critical resist.....
@SirDopey
If you rune cage me then hard cast frags, I have broken free and dodgerolled both the frags and the overload with the same doderoll.
@Oreyn_Bearclaw > every player that's ever played any MMO. Because he is God and knows all. Can counter every counter and every argument.
I'm saying you can pull that combo and it kills people. It's not a matter of weaving or skill. Its numbers. A 7k meteor, a 3.5k haunting curse, a 4.5k crystal frag, a 2k endless fury is = 17k damage. That's drops about 90% of players into execute, proc implosion, and execute from endless fury.
You mentioned weaving attacks... lmao which just makes the combo wayyyyy stronger. Now you're for sure dropping them into execute.
The point is, EVEN WITHOUT WEAVING THE COMBO CAN KILL YOU. No shyyt you should weave attacks. I was making a point. Everytime someone says something in hear it's taken out of context and made into something it's not. So your "L2P" issue is really a bunch of BS. Clearly you dont know how to "math".
@Hutch679
Let's take those numbers as true. That means it takes you to execute if your health is less than 22k and you did literally nothing to mitigate any of the damage. I am sorry, but that defines a bad player. I am not saying that's you, and sure, a good portion of the playerbase in PVP have no idea what you are doing, but that kinda brings us back to what a lot of us have been saying for a long time.
Sorcs excel at killing bad players. They dont understand how to handle a burst combo, so they get one-shot and respawn on the forums without really knowing what happened. They also cant kill a sorc because they only see health bars and dont understand how to pressure someone stamina pool.
Let's also not forget that every class has a counter to at least part of that combo. DKs have wings, Wardens have shimmering shield, templars have purge, and NBs can cloak.
I am not saying that a sorc burst combo isnt strong. It is and it should be, that's how the class was designed. I am not saying that rune cage isnt perhaps over performing a bit, IMO, the range should be toned down to gap closer range.
What I am saying is that if you are just constantly falling over dead to a sorc, or believe they are the most powerful class in PVP, I question your knowledge and your skill level. Of course they are going to kill you once in a while, as can any class. I play mSorc, mDK, sNB, and sWarden all with some regularity. On none of those classes do I find sorcs to be my toughest counter. They are not the go to for 1vXers, and they are not winning high end dueling tournaments with any kind of regularity (of course there are good sorc duelers, but that's true of any class). They dont dominate pre-made BG groups, although most will have one. They only place they arguably dominate is in low MMR/Solo queue BGs, but that sort of brings us back to the point that sorcs are good at killing bad players.5 -
ShadowProc✭✭✭✭✭ShadowProc wrote: »ShadowProc wrote: »Most magsorcs I know run destro/resto. How can you say “sorcs don’t have access to a good heal” when they have the entire resto line?
The only class that has access to snare immunity in their skills is Templar, as far as I know.
Every other class including nb’a gets it from:
Mist form
Shuffle
Forward momentum
Give up your cookie cutter playstyle if you want snare immunity.
Sorc self heals required criticals or dark deal. How does that stack up against other classes?
ITS NOT SUPPOSE TO. it's called shields. Stack max magicka for offense and defense.
LOL.
We don’t have self heals. ——> You’re not supposed to, you have shields.
Oblivion damage ignores shields. ——> Well, Slot a self heal!
Classic forum logic when it comes to Sorc nerf QQ.
Destro restro. So mutagen? No one build will counter everything. You have to invest in defense. Or don't. Just kill them first
If SORCs had access to a self heal how would they ever die behind those shields?
So ya lol you want to be invincible. You a fotm by chance?
Mutagen is so smart it hits everyone within 28m first. I want a reliable self heal. Not one I have to waste precious magicka on because I have to cast it 5 times before it hits me.
By the way, being a Sorc in noCP that doesn’t run Harness Magicka is as far from invincible as it can get. I also Main the class since 2014. Nice try though.
Then you need to play better. Sorry man. But all the sorc mains out there I see are mopping the floor with everyone
It's okay to die you know? Is you r kill death ratio bad? Probably not so who cares.
Asking for buffs when the other classes besides NBs and Sorcs is crazy.0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »the rune cage burst meta is horrible and offers 0 counterplay. stacking 30k damage with a undodgeable/unblockable cc is OP
fix runecage by making the sorcs not be able to shield if they have it slotted. why should you be able to one shot everyone if we cant do it back?
The one shot you speak of takes at least 8 button presses, 10, if you throw in the ultimate.
Really? 1. Haunting curse, 2. Meteor, 3. Rune cage, 4. Endless fury, 5. Crystal frag.
That's weird.... I can do it in 5.... must not be OP.
@Hutch679
Apparently you never learned to weave. Proving once again that most people complaining about sorcs have a L2P issue. If that combo kills you with no LA's or enchant damage, your defense is just horrible.Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »the rune cage burst meta is horrible and offers 0 counterplay. stacking 30k damage with a undodgeable/unblockable cc is OP
fix runecage by making the sorcs not be able to shield if they have it slotted. why should you be able to one shot everyone if we cant do it back?
The one shot you speak of takes at least 8 button presses, 10, if you throw in the ultimate.
Not unless you're running spinners, elegant and slim claw then it's only 3 buttons.
Runecage > Hardcast Frags, Overload. All three pieces hit at once.
Admittedly it took a lot of testing and tweaking to get my CP right but my Frag hits for 13k and overload 27k against my testing partner, who had 30k hp with 40k spell resist with 4k critical resist.....
@SirDopey
If you rune cage me then hard cast frags, I have broken free and dodgerolled both the frags and the overload with the same doderoll.
@Oreyn_Bearclaw > every player that's ever played any MMO. Because he is God and knows all. Can counter every counter and every argument.
I'm saying you can pull that combo and it kills people. It's not a matter of weaving or skill. Its numbers. A 7k meteor, a 3.5k haunting curse, a 4.5k crystal frag, a 2k endless fury is = 17k damage. That's drops about 90% of players into execute, proc implosion, and execute from endless fury.
You mentioned weaving attacks... lmao which just makes the combo wayyyyy stronger. Now you're for sure dropping them into execute.
The point is, EVEN WITHOUT WEAVING THE COMBO CAN KILL YOU. No shyyt you should weave attacks. I was making a point. Everytime someone says something in hear it's taken out of context and made into something it's not. So your "L2P" issue is really a bunch of BS. Clearly you dont know how to "math".
@Hutch679
Let's take those numbers as true. That means it takes you to execute if your health is less than 22k and you did literally nothing to mitigate any of the damage. I am sorry, but that defines a bad player. I am not saying that's you, and sure, a good portion of the playerbase in PVP have no idea what you are doing, but that kinda brings us back to what a lot of us have been saying for a long time.
Sorcs excel at killing bad players. They dont understand how to handle a burst combo, so they get one-shot and respawn on the forums without really knowing what happened. They also cant kill a sorc because they only see health bars and dont understand how to pressure someone stamina pool.
Let's also not forget that every class has a counter to at least part of that combo. DKs have wings, Wardens have shimmering shield, templars have purge, and NBs can cloak.
I am not saying that a sorc burst combo isnt strong. It is and it should be, that's how the class was designed. I am not saying that rune cage isnt perhaps over performing a bit, IMO, the range should be toned down to gap closer range.
What I am saying is that if you are just constantly falling over dead to a sorc, or believe they are the most powerful class in PVP, I question your knowledge and your skill level. Of course they are going to kill you once in a while, as can any class. I play mSorc, mDK, sNB, and sWarden all with some regularity. On none of those classes do I find sorcs to be my toughest counter. They are not the go to for 1vXers, and they are not winning high end dueling tournaments with any kind of regularity (of course there are good sorc duelers, but that's true of any class). They dont dominate pre-made BG groups, although most will have one. They only place they arguably dominate is in low MMR/Solo queue BGs, but that sort of brings us back to the point that sorcs are good at killing bad players.3 -
Hutch679✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »the rune cage burst meta is horrible and offers 0 counterplay. stacking 30k damage with a undodgeable/unblockable cc is OP
fix runecage by making the sorcs not be able to shield if they have it slotted. why should you be able to one shot everyone if we cant do it back?
The one shot you speak of takes at least 8 button presses, 10, if you throw in the ultimate.
Really? 1. Haunting curse, 2. Meteor, 3. Rune cage, 4. Endless fury, 5. Crystal frag.
That's weird.... I can do it in 5.... must not be OP.
@Hutch679
Apparently you never learned to weave. Proving once again that most people complaining about sorcs have a L2P issue. If that combo kills you with no LA's or enchant damage, your defense is just horrible.Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »the rune cage burst meta is horrible and offers 0 counterplay. stacking 30k damage with a undodgeable/unblockable cc is OP
fix runecage by making the sorcs not be able to shield if they have it slotted. why should you be able to one shot everyone if we cant do it back?
The one shot you speak of takes at least 8 button presses, 10, if you throw in the ultimate.
Not unless you're running spinners, elegant and slim claw then it's only 3 buttons.
Runecage > Hardcast Frags, Overload. All three pieces hit at once.
Admittedly it took a lot of testing and tweaking to get my CP right but my Frag hits for 13k and overload 27k against my testing partner, who had 30k hp with 40k spell resist with 4k critical resist.....
@SirDopey
If you rune cage me then hard cast frags, I have broken free and dodgerolled both the frags and the overload with the same doderoll.
@Oreyn_Bearclaw > every player that's ever played any MMO. Because he is God and knows all. Can counter every counter and every argument.
I'm saying you can pull that combo and it kills people. It's not a matter of weaving or skill. Its numbers. A 7k meteor, a 3.5k haunting curse, a 4.5k crystal frag, a 2k endless fury is = 17k damage. That's drops about 90% of players into execute, proc implosion, and execute from endless fury.
You mentioned weaving attacks... lmao which just makes the combo wayyyyy stronger. Now you're for sure dropping them into execute.
The point is, EVEN WITHOUT WEAVING THE COMBO CAN KILL YOU. No shyyt you should weave attacks. I was making a point. Everytime someone says something in hear it's taken out of context and made into something it's not. So your "L2P" issue is really a bunch of BS. Clearly you dont know how to "math".
@Hutch679
Let's take those numbers as true. That means it takes you to execute if your health is less than 22k and you did literally nothing to mitigate any of the damage. I am sorry, but that defines a bad player. I am not saying that's you, and sure, a good portion of the playerbase in PVP have no idea what you are doing, but that kinda brings us back to what a lot of us have been saying for a long time.
Sorcs excel at killing bad players. They dont understand how to handle a burst combo, so they get one-shot and respawn on the forums without really knowing what happened. They also cant kill a sorc because they only see health bars and dont understand how to pressure someone stamina pool.
Let's also not forget that every class has a counter to at least part of that combo. DKs have wings, Wardens have shimmering shield, templars have purge, and NBs can cloak.
I am not saying that a sorc burst combo isnt strong. It is and it should be, that's how the class was designed. I am not saying that rune cage isnt perhaps over performing a bit, IMO, the range should be toned down to gap closer range.
What I am saying is that if you are just constantly falling over dead to a sorc, or believe they are the most powerful class in PVP, I question your knowledge and your skill level. Of course they are going to kill you once in a while, as can any class. I play mSorc, mDK, sNB, and sWarden all with some regularity. On none of those classes do I find sorcs to be my toughest counter. They are not the go to for 1vXers, and they are not winning high end dueling tournaments with any kind of regularity (of course there are good sorc duelers, but that's true of any class). They dont dominate pre-made BG groups, although most will have one. They only place they arguably dominate is in low MMR/Solo queue BGs, but that sort of brings us back to the point that sorcs are good at killing bad players.
What do you do to mitigate damage while your stuck in a stun from rune cage? Because if there is some magical skill you can cast while in rune cage it's new to me. Haunting curse has a 3 second delay and is unblockable, meteor is on delay, rune cage is on delay making meteor and haunting curse hit at same time, frag is practically instant while you're stunned, endless fury hits you while you are stunned. I love the whole "you did nothing" argument you make, like you can just hit the "survive button" which saves you from all that damage that you can apparently avoid while you are already stunned.Edited by Hutch679 on July 23, 2018 8:16PM3 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »the rune cage burst meta is horrible and offers 0 counterplay. stacking 30k damage with a undodgeable/unblockable cc is OP
fix runecage by making the sorcs not be able to shield if they have it slotted. why should you be able to one shot everyone if we cant do it back?
The one shot you speak of takes at least 8 button presses, 10, if you throw in the ultimate.
Really? 1. Haunting curse, 2. Meteor, 3. Rune cage, 4. Endless fury, 5. Crystal frag.
That's weird.... I can do it in 5.... must not be OP.
@Hutch679
Apparently you never learned to weave. Proving once again that most people complaining about sorcs have a L2P issue. If that combo kills you with no LA's or enchant damage, your defense is just horrible.Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »the rune cage burst meta is horrible and offers 0 counterplay. stacking 30k damage with a undodgeable/unblockable cc is OP
fix runecage by making the sorcs not be able to shield if they have it slotted. why should you be able to one shot everyone if we cant do it back?
The one shot you speak of takes at least 8 button presses, 10, if you throw in the ultimate.
Not unless you're running spinners, elegant and slim claw then it's only 3 buttons.
Runecage > Hardcast Frags, Overload. All three pieces hit at once.
Admittedly it took a lot of testing and tweaking to get my CP right but my Frag hits for 13k and overload 27k against my testing partner, who had 30k hp with 40k spell resist with 4k critical resist.....
@SirDopey
If you rune cage me then hard cast frags, I have broken free and dodgerolled both the frags and the overload with the same doderoll.
@Oreyn_Bearclaw > every player that's ever played any MMO. Because he is God and knows all. Can counter every counter and every argument.
I'm saying you can pull that combo and it kills people. It's not a matter of weaving or skill. Its numbers. A 7k meteor, a 3.5k haunting curse, a 4.5k crystal frag, a 2k endless fury is = 17k damage. That's drops about 90% of players into execute, proc implosion, and execute from endless fury.
You mentioned weaving attacks... lmao which just makes the combo wayyyyy stronger. Now you're for sure dropping them into execute.
The point is, EVEN WITHOUT WEAVING THE COMBO CAN KILL YOU. No shyyt you should weave attacks. I was making a point. Everytime someone says something in hear it's taken out of context and made into something it's not. So your "L2P" issue is really a bunch of BS. Clearly you dont know how to "math".
@Hutch679
Let's take those numbers as true. That means it takes you to execute if your health is less than 22k and you did literally nothing to mitigate any of the damage. I am sorry, but that defines a bad player. I am not saying that's you, and sure, a good portion of the playerbase in PVP have no idea what you are doing, but that kinda brings us back to what a lot of us have been saying for a long time.
Sorcs excel at killing bad players. They dont understand how to handle a burst combo, so they get one-shot and respawn on the forums without really knowing what happened. They also cant kill a sorc because they only see health bars and dont understand how to pressure someone stamina pool.
Let's also not forget that every class has a counter to at least part of that combo. DKs have wings, Wardens have shimmering shield, templars have purge, and NBs can cloak.
I am not saying that a sorc burst combo isnt strong. It is and it should be, that's how the class was designed. I am not saying that rune cage isnt perhaps over performing a bit, IMO, the range should be toned down to gap closer range.
What I am saying is that if you are just constantly falling over dead to a sorc, or believe they are the most powerful class in PVP, I question your knowledge and your skill level. Of course they are going to kill you once in a while, as can any class. I play mSorc, mDK, sNB, and sWarden all with some regularity. On none of those classes do I find sorcs to be my toughest counter. They are not the go to for 1vXers, and they are not winning high end dueling tournaments with any kind of regularity (of course there are good sorc duelers, but that's true of any class). They dont dominate pre-made BG groups, although most will have one. They only place they arguably dominate is in low MMR/Solo queue BGs, but that sort of brings us back to the point that sorcs are good at killing bad players.
What do you do to mitigate damage while your stuck in a stun from rune cage? Because if there is some magical skill you can cast while in rune cage it's new to me. Haunting curse has a 3 second delay and is unblockable, meteor is on delay, rune cage is on delay making meteor and haunting curse hit at same time, frag is practically instant while you're stunned, endless fury hits you while you are stunned. I love the whole "you did nothing" argument you make, like you can just hit the "survive button" which saves you from all that damage that you can apparently avoid while you are already stunned.
Counterplay is supposed to happen before the sorc hits you with their burst. If you enter combat against one, keep wings up, keep shuffle up, keep a shield up, roll dodge their light attacks, stun them first. All of those things will ensure that some of the sorc burst won't hit you once you get stunned. You know it is coming, prepare for it.0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »the rune cage burst meta is horrible and offers 0 counterplay. stacking 30k damage with a undodgeable/unblockable cc is OP
fix runecage by making the sorcs not be able to shield if they have it slotted. why should you be able to one shot everyone if we cant do it back?
The one shot you speak of takes at least 8 button presses, 10, if you throw in the ultimate.
Really? 1. Haunting curse, 2. Meteor, 3. Rune cage, 4. Endless fury, 5. Crystal frag.
That's weird.... I can do it in 5.... must not be OP.
@Hutch679
Apparently you never learned to weave. Proving once again that most people complaining about sorcs have a L2P issue. If that combo kills you with no LA's or enchant damage, your defense is just horrible.Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »the rune cage burst meta is horrible and offers 0 counterplay. stacking 30k damage with a undodgeable/unblockable cc is OP
fix runecage by making the sorcs not be able to shield if they have it slotted. why should you be able to one shot everyone if we cant do it back?
The one shot you speak of takes at least 8 button presses, 10, if you throw in the ultimate.
Not unless you're running spinners, elegant and slim claw then it's only 3 buttons.
Runecage > Hardcast Frags, Overload. All three pieces hit at once.
Admittedly it took a lot of testing and tweaking to get my CP right but my Frag hits for 13k and overload 27k against my testing partner, who had 30k hp with 40k spell resist with 4k critical resist.....
@SirDopey
If you rune cage me then hard cast frags, I have broken free and dodgerolled both the frags and the overload with the same doderoll.
@Oreyn_Bearclaw > every player that's ever played any MMO. Because he is God and knows all. Can counter every counter and every argument.
I'm saying you can pull that combo and it kills people. It's not a matter of weaving or skill. Its numbers. A 7k meteor, a 3.5k haunting curse, a 4.5k crystal frag, a 2k endless fury is = 17k damage. That's drops about 90% of players into execute, proc implosion, and execute from endless fury.
You mentioned weaving attacks... lmao which just makes the combo wayyyyy stronger. Now you're for sure dropping them into execute.
The point is, EVEN WITHOUT WEAVING THE COMBO CAN KILL YOU. No shyyt you should weave attacks. I was making a point. Everytime someone says something in hear it's taken out of context and made into something it's not. So your "L2P" issue is really a bunch of BS. Clearly you dont know how to "math".
@Hutch679
Let's take those numbers as true. That means it takes you to execute if your health is less than 22k and you did literally nothing to mitigate any of the damage. I am sorry, but that defines a bad player. I am not saying that's you, and sure, a good portion of the playerbase in PVP have no idea what you are doing, but that kinda brings us back to what a lot of us have been saying for a long time.
Sorcs excel at killing bad players. They dont understand how to handle a burst combo, so they get one-shot and respawn on the forums without really knowing what happened. They also cant kill a sorc because they only see health bars and dont understand how to pressure someone stamina pool.
Let's also not forget that every class has a counter to at least part of that combo. DKs have wings, Wardens have shimmering shield, templars have purge, and NBs can cloak.
I am not saying that a sorc burst combo isnt strong. It is and it should be, that's how the class was designed. I am not saying that rune cage isnt perhaps over performing a bit, IMO, the range should be toned down to gap closer range.
What I am saying is that if you are just constantly falling over dead to a sorc, or believe they are the most powerful class in PVP, I question your knowledge and your skill level. Of course they are going to kill you once in a while, as can any class. I play mSorc, mDK, sNB, and sWarden all with some regularity. On none of those classes do I find sorcs to be my toughest counter. They are not the go to for 1vXers, and they are not winning high end dueling tournaments with any kind of regularity (of course there are good sorc duelers, but that's true of any class). They dont dominate pre-made BG groups, although most will have one. They only place they arguably dominate is in low MMR/Solo queue BGs, but that sort of brings us back to the point that sorcs are good at killing bad players.
What do you do to mitigate damage while your stuck in a stun from rune cage? Because if there is some magical skill you can cast while in rune cage it's new to me. Haunting curse has a 3 second delay and is unblockable, meteor is on delay, rune cage is on delay making meteor and haunting curse hit at same time, frag is practically instant while you're stunned, endless fury hits you while you are stunned. I love the whole "you did nothing" argument you make, like you can just hit the "survive button" which saves you from all that damage that you can apparently avoid while you are already stunned.
@Hutch679
If rune cage hits you, it's perhaps too late. That said, you can typically CC break and dodgroll and likely miss a lot of the burst.
A sorc will cast at least two setup skills before you are CC'ed, Curse and fury, and if they are going for the mega combo with meteor, that has it's own audible tell as well that will give you time to react. If someone casts meteor and immediately casts rune cage, then you absolutely have enough time to break the CC and rolldoge/block before meteor hits. It takes very precise timing to CC someone just as your meteor hits. Not saying it's not possible, but your average sorc is not doing this with any kind of consistency.
The second you get cursed, you better start with the counter play. A templar should purge, makes the skill go away. A DK should cast Wings, nullifies a good chunk of the combo, same can be said with warden and Shimmering Shield. A NB can simply cloak. Yes the curse will pull you out of a cloak, but you arent pulling the combo off if a NB cloaks immediately after you curse. It just resets the timing for the combo so you need to start over. If you are playing sorc, you should immediately start your shield stack.
I am also guessing that this hypothetical player is not CC breaking in a timely manner. Getting all of these skills to hit at once is much harder than it sounds. In reality, there is almost always going to be at least 2 seconds from start to finish on the sorc burst. You should only be CCed for a second at most. A meteor can at most be cast once per minute, which is longer than your potion cooldown. If I hear a meteor coming, I will always pop an imov pot if it is up.
Counter play absolutely exists. Perma blockers and perma dodgers eat this combo for breakfast. Magic characters of every class have a way to counter if they are on their game. Of course, we have the problem of sorcs casting this skill out of left field, which is why most people that are objective about this skill concede the range prob needs toned down a bit. Unblockable/undodgeble CCs have been around a while.3 -
MalagenR✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »the rune cage burst meta is horrible and offers 0 counterplay. stacking 30k damage with a undodgeable/unblockable cc is OP
fix runecage by making the sorcs not be able to shield if they have it slotted. why should you be able to one shot everyone if we cant do it back?
The one shot you speak of takes at least 8 button presses, 10, if you throw in the ultimate.
Really? 1. Haunting curse, 2. Meteor, 3. Rune cage, 4. Endless fury, 5. Crystal frag.
That's weird.... I can do it in 5.... must not be OP.
@Hutch679
Apparently you never learned to weave. Proving once again that most people complaining about sorcs have a L2P issue. If that combo kills you with no LA's or enchant damage, your defense is just horrible.Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »the rune cage burst meta is horrible and offers 0 counterplay. stacking 30k damage with a undodgeable/unblockable cc is OP
fix runecage by making the sorcs not be able to shield if they have it slotted. why should you be able to one shot everyone if we cant do it back?
The one shot you speak of takes at least 8 button presses, 10, if you throw in the ultimate.
Not unless you're running spinners, elegant and slim claw then it's only 3 buttons.
Runecage > Hardcast Frags, Overload. All three pieces hit at once.
Admittedly it took a lot of testing and tweaking to get my CP right but my Frag hits for 13k and overload 27k against my testing partner, who had 30k hp with 40k spell resist with 4k critical resist.....
@SirDopey
If you rune cage me then hard cast frags, I have broken free and dodgerolled both the frags and the overload with the same doderoll.
@Oreyn_Bearclaw > every player that's ever played any MMO. Because he is God and knows all. Can counter every counter and every argument.
I'm saying you can pull that combo and it kills people. It's not a matter of weaving or skill. Its numbers. A 7k meteor, a 3.5k haunting curse, a 4.5k crystal frag, a 2k endless fury is = 17k damage. That's drops about 90% of players into execute, proc implosion, and execute from endless fury.
You mentioned weaving attacks... lmao which just makes the combo wayyyyy stronger. Now you're for sure dropping them into execute.
The point is, EVEN WITHOUT WEAVING THE COMBO CAN KILL YOU. No shyyt you should weave attacks. I was making a point. Everytime someone says something in hear it's taken out of context and made into something it's not. So your "L2P" issue is really a bunch of BS. Clearly you dont know how to "math".
@Hutch679
Let's take those numbers as true. That means it takes you to execute if your health is less than 22k and you did literally nothing to mitigate any of the damage. I am sorry, but that defines a bad player. I am not saying that's you, and sure, a good portion of the playerbase in PVP have no idea what you are doing, but that kinda brings us back to what a lot of us have been saying for a long time.
Sorcs excel at killing bad players. They dont understand how to handle a burst combo, so they get one-shot and respawn on the forums without really knowing what happened. They also cant kill a sorc because they only see health bars and dont understand how to pressure someone stamina pool.
Let's also not forget that every class has a counter to at least part of that combo. DKs have wings, Wardens have shimmering shield, templars have purge, and NBs can cloak.
I am not saying that a sorc burst combo isnt strong. It is and it should be, that's how the class was designed. I am not saying that rune cage isnt perhaps over performing a bit, IMO, the range should be toned down to gap closer range.
What I am saying is that if you are just constantly falling over dead to a sorc, or believe they are the most powerful class in PVP, I question your knowledge and your skill level. Of course they are going to kill you once in a while, as can any class. I play mSorc, mDK, sNB, and sWarden all with some regularity. On none of those classes do I find sorcs to be my toughest counter. They are not the go to for 1vXers, and they are not winning high end dueling tournaments with any kind of regularity (of course there are good sorc duelers, but that's true of any class). They dont dominate pre-made BG groups, although most will have one. They only place they arguably dominate is in low MMR/Solo queue BGs, but that sort of brings us back to the point that sorcs are good at killing bad players.
What do you do to mitigate damage while your stuck in a stun from rune cage? Because if there is some magical skill you can cast while in rune cage it's new to me. Haunting curse has a 3 second delay and is unblockable, meteor is on delay, rune cage is on delay making meteor and haunting curse hit at same time, frag is practically instant while you're stunned, endless fury hits you while you are stunned. I love the whole "you did nothing" argument you make, like you can just hit the "survive button" which saves you from all that damage that you can apparently avoid while you are already stunned.
You didn't prepare your CC immunity for the moment that curse is about to go off? Curse goes off in 3.5 seconds, look for the 1 sec timer and get ready.0 -
bg22✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Congrats. Your anecdote shows that kill stealing is a thing in BGs (no, you didn't kill the opponents by yourself "with Ele drain and then LA-curse-LA-wrath-LA-pulse and rinse / repeat") . Besides, try your vMA pet Sorc open world and tell us how OP it is there.
Just tried it, it was OP there as well.
It’s as OP as OP gets. But there will always be bad players who defend it with their every breath bc tho, bc they’re insufficient when playing any class that involves skill...1 -
bg22✭✭✭✭✭
✭For those that think they know what OP means...
2 words...
Blinding Flashes
Ppl made fun of me for dual wielding at launch. Untillll I used sparks on them. So badass. Lol
They should bring it back but give user 25%- damage while target is effected
But no, yea... Sorc is op af right now. Possibly worse than ever.
I’m considering leaving until it’s fixed...
Btw ZOS I drop about $120/month on crown stuff. Gg.Edited by bg22 on July 24, 2018 2:25AM1 -
bg22✭✭✭✭✭
✭
What tools are those? Damage? Got that. Burst? Got that in spades. Defense? Got that. Mobility? Got that too. Execute? Check! What am I missing here lol? Do you play XboxNA?
Play open Cyro and your laughter will die quickly, as do your pets, IF they're even participating in the fight.
Also, your gear is TERRIBLE for PvE - but quute good for PvP. Misleading argument you have going there...
I should clarify - my gear was changed to "try" to be somewhat viable for pvp. try being the operative word. my PVE gear is necro/ilambris/infallible aether (don't have vma lightning yet). I switched out IA for shackle and ilambris for shadowrend. and switched a few skills as I noted.
anyways - the point wasn't to say that my build was viable in open world or bg pvp. the point was to say that a very poorly implemented version of the magsorc still had pretty damn good success in bg's - and that a properly specced/geared magsorc would be a nightmare.
It is quite well-known that sorcs are somewhat beginner-friendly, so you should expect such results, especially with pets in small scales and places.
But once you've played for a couple years, or got to top-tier PvP, you'll start noticing that sorcs lack a few tools to reach the same maximum performance that other classes do. ESPECIALLY nightblades. A single Battleground session just isn't a good basis for in-depth balancing decisions.
1. No pressure
Sure, there's Curse, but that's every four seconds. Sorcs have no good DoT, stop attacking completely while shielding, and frontloading Fury is also a pressure loss with its tiny 3k tooltip. In a duel, pressure is everything
2. No scaling defenses
Hate on shields all you want, but the truth is, it doesn't scale with number of opponents. Two people should have no problem to burn through shields. Many sorcs therefore sacrifice something to get a couple more dodgerolls, as they scale. But they do sacrifice something. This is why experienced players know IMMEDIATELY what kind of player you are when you and your group got taken out by a single sorc.
3. No debuffs or resource pressure
There is no Major Breech attached to our spammable. And Force Pulse has only a low status effect chance. We have no snare, and are weak to it, completely nullifying our mobility argument. We have only one reasonable root, mines. And they are defensive, easily-counter, and therefore not worth slotting anymore. NBs and DKs ALWAYS also attack their opponent's stamina with their roots, which is deciding in mag fights. And speaking of, built-in Maim is RIDICULOUS. As a sorc, you need sets for that, which means less offense.
4. Lack of speed
Sorcs are very stiff in Cyro. They have to predict in advance what fights they can take, as they cannot, I repeat, cannot get away from gapclosers. Yes, Nightblades can cloak. It doesn't work always, but more often than not. With sorc it's zero escape. And once you're engaged, you have to build up a correct sequence of four skills while defending, positioning, aiming and checking surroundings. There is no sudden "Turnaroundincapspectral" for sorcs. And don't get me started on Streak, the only skill in the whole game that punishes you for using it. Whereas avstacking cost proposal for Cloak met a resounding protest from the forumblades. Double standard, much?
5. Sustain
Admittedly, this has gotten better with Lich, Amberplasm and Shacklebreaker. But sorc skills are still very expensive. Our sustain tool sucks stamina, which needs to be compensated for. And again, Streak. Sorcs are forced to use a sustain set, which is okay, but then SOME MORE. Be it food, glyphs, another sustain set - sorcs cannot live on one sustain set alone, and that shows in damage numbers.
I’ve yet to see a Sorc make a valid argument, or not point a finger and make up some unrelated bs comparison... it’s OP. It’s that simple You lose ALL credibility instantly when you say otherwise.4 -
Tonturri✭✭✭✭✭
What tools are those? Damage? Got that. Burst? Got that in spades. Defense? Got that. Mobility? Got that too. Execute? Check! What am I missing here lol? Do you play XboxNA?
Play open Cyro and your laughter will die quickly, as do your pets, IF they're even participating in the fight.
Also, your gear is TERRIBLE for PvE - but quute good for PvP. Misleading argument you have going there...
I should clarify - my gear was changed to "try" to be somewhat viable for pvp. try being the operative word. my PVE gear is necro/ilambris/infallible aether (don't have vma lightning yet). I switched out IA for shackle and ilambris for shadowrend. and switched a few skills as I noted.
anyways - the point wasn't to say that my build was viable in open world or bg pvp. the point was to say that a very poorly implemented version of the magsorc still had pretty damn good success in bg's - and that a properly specced/geared magsorc would be a nightmare.
It is quite well-known that sorcs are somewhat beginner-friendly, so you should expect such results, especially with pets in small scales and places.
But once you've played for a couple years, or got to top-tier PvP, you'll start noticing that sorcs lack a few tools to reach the same maximum performance that other classes do. ESPECIALLY nightblades. A single Battleground session just isn't a good basis for in-depth balancing decisions.
1. No pressure
Sure, there's Curse, but that's every four seconds. Sorcs have no good DoT, stop attacking completely while shielding, and frontloading Fury is also a pressure loss with its tiny 3k tooltip. In a duel, pressure is everything
2. No scaling defenses
Hate on shields all you want, but the truth is, it doesn't scale with number of opponents. Two people should have no problem to burn through shields. Many sorcs therefore sacrifice something to get a couple more dodgerolls, as they scale. But they do sacrifice something. This is why experienced players know IMMEDIATELY what kind of player you are when you and your group got taken out by a single sorc.
3. No debuffs or resource pressure
There is no Major Breech attached to our spammable. And Force Pulse has only a low status effect chance. We have no snare, and are weak to it, completely nullifying our mobility argument. We have only one reasonable root, mines. And they are defensive, easily-counter, and therefore not worth slotting anymore. NBs and DKs ALWAYS also attack their opponent's stamina with their roots, which is deciding in mag fights. And speaking of, built-in Maim is RIDICULOUS. As a sorc, you need sets for that, which means less offense.
4. Lack of speed
Sorcs are very stiff in Cyro. They have to predict in advance what fights they can take, as they cannot, I repeat, cannot get away from gapclosers. Yes, Nightblades can cloak. It doesn't work always, but more often than not. With sorc it's zero escape. And once you're engaged, you have to build up a correct sequence of four skills while defending, positioning, aiming and checking surroundings. There is no sudden "Turnaroundincapspectral" for sorcs. And don't get me started on Streak, the only skill in the whole game that punishes you for using it. Whereas avstacking cost proposal for Cloak met a resounding protest from the forumblades. Double standard, much?
5. Sustain
Admittedly, this has gotten better with Lich, Amberplasm and Shacklebreaker. But sorc skills are still very expensive. Our sustain tool sucks stamina, which needs to be compensated for. And again, Streak. Sorcs are forced to use a sustain set, which is okay, but then SOME MORE. Be it food, glyphs, another sustain set - sorcs cannot live on one sustain set alone, and that shows in damage numbers.
I’ve yet to see a Sorc make a valid argument, or not point a finger and make up some unrelated bs comparison... it’s OP. It’s that simple You lose ALL credibility instantly when you say otherwise.
A little hypocritical, don't you think? You have three replies on this page - in all of them, all you say is 'sorc is OP', yet you're saying that others don't have any valid arguments (and that they're sorcs - as if, somehow, playing the class automatically disqualifies them for being able to comment on it at all, so we should only take into consideration points made by those who know nothing about it?)
You replied to a pretty well thought out post with a load of hypocrisy and claiming people lose credibility when they disagree with you. Try following the 'wisdom' you yourself sprouted, at least. And hey, guess what
Unless you agree with everything I've said here, you lose all credibility. Edited by Tonturri on July 24, 2018 2:45AM4 -
bg22✭✭✭✭✭
✭
What tools are those? Damage? Got that. Burst? Got that in spades. Defense? Got that. Mobility? Got that too. Execute? Check! What am I missing here lol? Do you play XboxNA?
Play open Cyro and your laughter will die quickly, as do your pets, IF they're even participating in the fight.
Also, your gear is TERRIBLE for PvE - but quute good for PvP. Misleading argument you have going there...
I should clarify - my gear was changed to "try" to be somewhat viable for pvp. try being the operative word. my PVE gear is necro/ilambris/infallible aether (don't have vma lightning yet). I switched out IA for shackle and ilambris for shadowrend. and switched a few skills as I noted.
anyways - the point wasn't to say that my build was viable in open world or bg pvp. the point was to say that a very poorly implemented version of the magsorc still had pretty damn good success in bg's - and that a properly specced/geared magsorc would be a nightmare.
It is quite well-known that sorcs are somewhat beginner-friendly, so you should expect such results, especially with pets in small scales and places.
But once you've played for a couple years, or got to top-tier PvP, you'll start noticing that sorcs lack a few tools to reach the same maximum performance that other classes do. ESPECIALLY nightblades. A single Battleground session just isn't a good basis for in-depth balancing decisions.
1. No pressure
Sure, there's Curse, but that's every four seconds. Sorcs have no good DoT, stop attacking completely while shielding, and frontloading Fury is also a pressure loss with its tiny 3k tooltip. In a duel, pressure is everything
2. No scaling defenses
Hate on shields all you want, but the truth is, it doesn't scale with number of opponents. Two people should have no problem to burn through shields. Many sorcs therefore sacrifice something to get a couple more dodgerolls, as they scale. But they do sacrifice something. This is why experienced players know IMMEDIATELY what kind of player you are when you and your group got taken out by a single sorc.
3. No debuffs or resource pressure
There is no Major Breech attached to our spammable. And Force Pulse has only a low status effect chance. We have no snare, and are weak to it, completely nullifying our mobility argument. We have only one reasonable root, mines. And they are defensive, easily-counter, and therefore not worth slotting anymore. NBs and DKs ALWAYS also attack their opponent's stamina with their roots, which is deciding in mag fights. And speaking of, built-in Maim is RIDICULOUS. As a sorc, you need sets for that, which means less offense.
4. Lack of speed
Sorcs are very stiff in Cyro. They have to predict in advance what fights they can take, as they cannot, I repeat, cannot get away from gapclosers. Yes, Nightblades can cloak. It doesn't work always, but more often than not. With sorc it's zero escape. And once you're engaged, you have to build up a correct sequence of four skills while defending, positioning, aiming and checking surroundings. There is no sudden "Turnaroundincapspectral" for sorcs. And don't get me started on Streak, the only skill in the whole game that punishes you for using it. Whereas avstacking cost proposal for Cloak met a resounding protest from the forumblades. Double standard, much?
5. Sustain
Admittedly, this has gotten better with Lich, Amberplasm and Shacklebreaker. But sorc skills are still very expensive. Our sustain tool sucks stamina, which needs to be compensated for. And again, Streak. Sorcs are forced to use a sustain set, which is okay, but then SOME MORE. Be it food, glyphs, another sustain set - sorcs cannot live on one sustain set alone, and that shows in damage numbers.
I’ve yet to see a Sorc make a valid argument, or not point a finger and make up some unrelated bs comparison... it’s OP. It’s that simple You lose ALL credibility instantly when you say otherwise.
A little hypocritical, don't you think? You have three replies on this page - in all of them, all you say is 'sorc is OP', yet you're saying that others don't have any valid arguments (and that they're sorcs - as if, somehow, playing the class automatically disqualifies them for being able to comment on it at all, so we should only take into consideration points made by those who know nothing about it?)
You replied to a pretty well thought out post with a load of hypocrisy and claiming people lose credibility when they disagree with you. Try following the 'wisdom' you yourself sprouted, at least. And hey, guess what Unless you agree with everything I've said here, you lose all credibility.
No need to say way hundreds of others already have, and everyone else knows.
Doncha think?3 -
IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭
What tools are those? Damage? Got that. Burst? Got that in spades. Defense? Got that. Mobility? Got that too. Execute? Check! What am I missing here lol? Do you play XboxNA?
Play open Cyro and your laughter will die quickly, as do your pets, IF they're even participating in the fight.
Also, your gear is TERRIBLE for PvE - but quute good for PvP. Misleading argument you have going there...
I should clarify - my gear was changed to "try" to be somewhat viable for pvp. try being the operative word. my PVE gear is necro/ilambris/infallible aether (don't have vma lightning yet). I switched out IA for shackle and ilambris for shadowrend. and switched a few skills as I noted.
anyways - the point wasn't to say that my build was viable in open world or bg pvp. the point was to say that a very poorly implemented version of the magsorc still had pretty damn good success in bg's - and that a properly specced/geared magsorc would be a nightmare.
It is quite well-known that sorcs are somewhat beginner-friendly, so you should expect such results, especially with pets in small scales and places.
But once you've played for a couple years, or got to top-tier PvP, you'll start noticing that sorcs lack a few tools to reach the same maximum performance that other classes do. ESPECIALLY nightblades. A single Battleground session just isn't a good basis for in-depth balancing decisions.
1. No pressure
Sure, there's Curse, but that's every four seconds. Sorcs have no good DoT, stop attacking completely while shielding, and frontloading Fury is also a pressure loss with its tiny 3k tooltip. In a duel, pressure is everything
2. No scaling defenses
Hate on shields all you want, but the truth is, it doesn't scale with number of opponents. Two people should have no problem to burn through shields. Many sorcs therefore sacrifice something to get a couple more dodgerolls, as they scale. But they do sacrifice something. This is why experienced players know IMMEDIATELY what kind of player you are when you and your group got taken out by a single sorc.
3. No debuffs or resource pressure
There is no Major Breech attached to our spammable. And Force Pulse has only a low status effect chance. We have no snare, and are weak to it, completely nullifying our mobility argument. We have only one reasonable root, mines. And they are defensive, easily-counter, and therefore not worth slotting anymore. NBs and DKs ALWAYS also attack their opponent's stamina with their roots, which is deciding in mag fights. And speaking of, built-in Maim is RIDICULOUS. As a sorc, you need sets for that, which means less offense.
4. Lack of speed
Sorcs are very stiff in Cyro. They have to predict in advance what fights they can take, as they cannot, I repeat, cannot get away from gapclosers. Yes, Nightblades can cloak. It doesn't work always, but more often than not. With sorc it's zero escape. And once you're engaged, you have to build up a correct sequence of four skills while defending, positioning, aiming and checking surroundings. There is no sudden "Turnaroundincapspectral" for sorcs. And don't get me started on Streak, the only skill in the whole game that punishes you for using it. Whereas avstacking cost proposal for Cloak met a resounding protest from the forumblades. Double standard, much?
5. Sustain
Admittedly, this has gotten better with Lich, Amberplasm and Shacklebreaker. But sorc skills are still very expensive. Our sustain tool sucks stamina, which needs to be compensated for. And again, Streak. Sorcs are forced to use a sustain set, which is okay, but then SOME MORE. Be it food, glyphs, another sustain set - sorcs cannot live on one sustain set alone, and that shows in damage numbers.
I’ve yet to see a Sorc make a valid argument, or not point a finger and make up some unrelated bs comparison... it’s OP. It’s that simple You lose ALL credibility instantly when you say otherwise.
A little hypocritical, don't you think? You have three replies on this page - in all of them, all you say is 'sorc is OP', yet you're saying that others don't have any valid arguments (and that they're sorcs - as if, somehow, playing the class automatically disqualifies them for being able to comment on it at all, so we should only take into consideration points made by those who know nothing about it?)
You replied to a pretty well thought out post with a load of hypocrisy and claiming people lose credibility when they disagree with you. Try following the 'wisdom' you yourself sprouted, at least. And hey, guess what Unless you agree with everything I've said here, you lose all credibility.
No need to say way hundreds of others already have, and everyone else knows.
Doncha think?
You come off as someone who is really salty about dying to Sorcs. Sure, Rune Cage problem is there but I don't think it is that OP to the point that anyone disagreeing with you is automatically not credible. Your argument in itself is not really credible. Being on 'Sorc hate' bandwagon does not make you a better individual. Sorcs still die easy. But then, this is basically NB vs Sorc now. Lol.Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel1 -
Kelces✭✭✭✭✭I don't think it is that bad, except maybe for the range, as was mentioned to be too high. However, once there was a stun applyed by the chrystal shards and the range might be the same or even higher (going from memory here).
Do you think the ability to stun might be fine or too powerful in comparison to the shards back then?You reveal yourself best in how you play.
Kelces - Argonian Templar
Farel Donvu - Dark Elf Sorcerer
Navam Llervu - Dark Elf Dragonknight
Aniseth - Wood Elf Warden
Therediel - Wood Elf Templar
Nilonwy - Wood Elf Nightblade
Jurupari - Argonian Warden
Kú-Chulainn - Argonian Sorcerer
PC - EU
For the Pact!1 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
What tools are those? Damage? Got that. Burst? Got that in spades. Defense? Got that. Mobility? Got that too. Execute? Check! What am I missing here lol? Do you play XboxNA?
Play open Cyro and your laughter will die quickly, as do your pets, IF they're even participating in the fight.
Also, your gear is TERRIBLE for PvE - but quute good for PvP. Misleading argument you have going there...
I should clarify - my gear was changed to "try" to be somewhat viable for pvp. try being the operative word. my PVE gear is necro/ilambris/infallible aether (don't have vma lightning yet). I switched out IA for shackle and ilambris for shadowrend. and switched a few skills as I noted.
anyways - the point wasn't to say that my build was viable in open world or bg pvp. the point was to say that a very poorly implemented version of the magsorc still had pretty damn good success in bg's - and that a properly specced/geared magsorc would be a nightmare.
It is quite well-known that sorcs are somewhat beginner-friendly, so you should expect such results, especially with pets in small scales and places.
But once you've played for a couple years, or got to top-tier PvP, you'll start noticing that sorcs lack a few tools to reach the same maximum performance that other classes do. ESPECIALLY nightblades. A single Battleground session just isn't a good basis for in-depth balancing decisions.
1. No pressure
Sure, there's Curse, but that's every four seconds. Sorcs have no good DoT, stop attacking completely while shielding, and frontloading Fury is also a pressure loss with its tiny 3k tooltip. In a duel, pressure is everything
2. No scaling defenses
Hate on shields all you want, but the truth is, it doesn't scale with number of opponents. Two people should have no problem to burn through shields. Many sorcs therefore sacrifice something to get a couple more dodgerolls, as they scale. But they do sacrifice something. This is why experienced players know IMMEDIATELY what kind of player you are when you and your group got taken out by a single sorc.
3. No debuffs or resource pressure
There is no Major Breech attached to our spammable. And Force Pulse has only a low status effect chance. We have no snare, and are weak to it, completely nullifying our mobility argument. We have only one reasonable root, mines. And they are defensive, easily-counter, and therefore not worth slotting anymore. NBs and DKs ALWAYS also attack their opponent's stamina with their roots, which is deciding in mag fights. And speaking of, built-in Maim is RIDICULOUS. As a sorc, you need sets for that, which means less offense.
4. Lack of speed
Sorcs are very stiff in Cyro. They have to predict in advance what fights they can take, as they cannot, I repeat, cannot get away from gapclosers. Yes, Nightblades can cloak. It doesn't work always, but more often than not. With sorc it's zero escape. And once you're engaged, you have to build up a correct sequence of four skills while defending, positioning, aiming and checking surroundings. There is no sudden "Turnaroundincapspectral" for sorcs. And don't get me started on Streak, the only skill in the whole game that punishes you for using it. Whereas avstacking cost proposal for Cloak met a resounding protest from the forumblades. Double standard, much?
5. Sustain
Admittedly, this has gotten better with Lich, Amberplasm and Shacklebreaker. But sorc skills are still very expensive. Our sustain tool sucks stamina, which needs to be compensated for. And again, Streak. Sorcs are forced to use a sustain set, which is okay, but then SOME MORE. Be it food, glyphs, another sustain set - sorcs cannot live on one sustain set alone, and that shows in damage numbers.
I’ve yet to see a Sorc make a valid argument, or not point a finger and make up some unrelated bs comparison... it’s OP. It’s that simple You lose ALL credibility instantly when you say otherwise.
Can we have that objectivity when it comes to other classes as well?Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.2 -
Hutch679✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »the rune cage burst meta is horrible and offers 0 counterplay. stacking 30k damage with a undodgeable/unblockable cc is OP
fix runecage by making the sorcs not be able to shield if they have it slotted. why should you be able to one shot everyone if we cant do it back?
The one shot you speak of takes at least 8 button presses, 10, if you throw in the ultimate.
Really? 1. Haunting curse, 2. Meteor, 3. Rune cage, 4. Endless fury, 5. Crystal frag.
That's weird.... I can do it in 5.... must not be OP.
@Hutch679
Apparently you never learned to weave. Proving once again that most people complaining about sorcs have a L2P issue. If that combo kills you with no LA's or enchant damage, your defense is just horrible.Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »the rune cage burst meta is horrible and offers 0 counterplay. stacking 30k damage with a undodgeable/unblockable cc is OP
fix runecage by making the sorcs not be able to shield if they have it slotted. why should you be able to one shot everyone if we cant do it back?
The one shot you speak of takes at least 8 button presses, 10, if you throw in the ultimate.
Not unless you're running spinners, elegant and slim claw then it's only 3 buttons.
Runecage > Hardcast Frags, Overload. All three pieces hit at once.
Admittedly it took a lot of testing and tweaking to get my CP right but my Frag hits for 13k and overload 27k against my testing partner, who had 30k hp with 40k spell resist with 4k critical resist.....
@SirDopey
If you rune cage me then hard cast frags, I have broken free and dodgerolled both the frags and the overload with the same doderoll.
@Oreyn_Bearclaw > every player that's ever played any MMO. Because he is God and knows all. Can counter every counter and every argument.
I'm saying you can pull that combo and it kills people. It's not a matter of weaving or skill. Its numbers. A 7k meteor, a 3.5k haunting curse, a 4.5k crystal frag, a 2k endless fury is = 17k damage. That's drops about 90% of players into execute, proc implosion, and execute from endless fury.
You mentioned weaving attacks... lmao which just makes the combo wayyyyy stronger. Now you're for sure dropping them into execute.
The point is, EVEN WITHOUT WEAVING THE COMBO CAN KILL YOU. No shyyt you should weave attacks. I was making a point. Everytime someone says something in hear it's taken out of context and made into something it's not. So your "L2P" issue is really a bunch of BS. Clearly you dont know how to "math".
@Hutch679
Let's take those numbers as true. That means it takes you to execute if your health is less than 22k and you did literally nothing to mitigate any of the damage. I am sorry, but that defines a bad player. I am not saying that's you, and sure, a good portion of the playerbase in PVP have no idea what you are doing, but that kinda brings us back to what a lot of us have been saying for a long time.
Sorcs excel at killing bad players. They dont understand how to handle a burst combo, so they get one-shot and respawn on the forums without really knowing what happened. They also cant kill a sorc because they only see health bars and dont understand how to pressure someone stamina pool.
Let's also not forget that every class has a counter to at least part of that combo. DKs have wings, Wardens have shimmering shield, templars have purge, and NBs can cloak.
I am not saying that a sorc burst combo isnt strong. It is and it should be, that's how the class was designed. I am not saying that rune cage isnt perhaps over performing a bit, IMO, the range should be toned down to gap closer range.
What I am saying is that if you are just constantly falling over dead to a sorc, or believe they are the most powerful class in PVP, I question your knowledge and your skill level. Of course they are going to kill you once in a while, as can any class. I play mSorc, mDK, sNB, and sWarden all with some regularity. On none of those classes do I find sorcs to be my toughest counter. They are not the go to for 1vXers, and they are not winning high end dueling tournaments with any kind of regularity (of course there are good sorc duelers, but that's true of any class). They dont dominate pre-made BG groups, although most will have one. They only place they arguably dominate is in low MMR/Solo queue BGs, but that sort of brings us back to the point that sorcs are good at killing bad players.
What do you do to mitigate damage while your stuck in a stun from rune cage? Because if there is some magical skill you can cast while in rune cage it's new to me. Haunting curse has a 3 second delay and is unblockable, meteor is on delay, rune cage is on delay making meteor and haunting curse hit at same time, frag is practically instant while you're stunned, endless fury hits you while you are stunned. I love the whole "you did nothing" argument you make, like you can just hit the "survive button" which saves you from all that damage that you can apparently avoid while you are already stunned.
@Hutch679
If rune cage hits you, it's perhaps too late. That said, you can typically CC break and dodgroll and likely miss a lot of the burst.
A sorc will cast at least two setup skills before you are CC'ed, Curse and fury, and if they are going for the mega combo with meteor, that has it's own audible tell as well that will give you time to react. If someone casts meteor and immediately casts rune cage, then you absolutely have enough time to break the CC and rolldoge/block before meteor hits. It takes very precise timing to CC someone just as your meteor hits. Not saying it's not possible, but your average sorc is not doing this with any kind of consistency.
The second you get cursed, you better start with the counter play. A templar should purge, makes the skill go away. A DK should cast Wings, nullifies a good chunk of the combo, same can be said with warden and Shimmering Shield. A NB can simply cloak. Yes the curse will pull you out of a cloak, but you arent pulling the combo off if a NB cloaks immediately after you curse. It just resets the timing for the combo so you need to start over. If you are playing sorc, you should immediately start your shield stack.
I am also guessing that this hypothetical player is not CC breaking in a timely manner. Getting all of these skills to hit at once is much harder than it sounds. In reality, there is almost always going to be at least 2 seconds from start to finish on the sorc burst. You should only be CCed for a second at most. A meteor can at most be cast once per minute, which is longer than your potion cooldown. If I hear a meteor coming, I will always pop an imov pot if it is up.
Counter play absolutely exists. Perma blockers and perma dodgers eat this combo for breakfast. Magic characters of every class have a way to counter if they are on their game. Of course, we have the problem of sorcs casting this skill out of left field, which is why most people that are objective about this skill concede the range prob needs toned down a bit. Unblockable/undodgeble CCs have been around a while.
So basically you're defending sorcs and saying they have plenty of counter play and there is no issue with their current class skills. You're saying that you can avoid the damage easily and passing it off as only bad players due to it.... what a joke lol you play on xbox name? Or garbage PC where about 1 in 75 players are actually halfway decent at pvp?3 -
MalagenR✭✭✭✭✭PC Players in MMO's have a significantly higher skill curve than Console players. Far more mobility with a PC. What are you even talking about?0
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bg22✭✭✭✭✭
✭
What tools are those? Damage? Got that. Burst? Got that in spades. Defense? Got that. Mobility? Got that too. Execute? Check! What am I missing here lol? Do you play XboxNA?
Play open Cyro and your laughter will die quickly, as do your pets, IF they're even participating in the fight.
Also, your gear is TERRIBLE for PvE - but quute good for PvP. Misleading argument you have going there...
I should clarify - my gear was changed to "try" to be somewhat viable for pvp. try being the operative word. my PVE gear is necro/ilambris/infallible aether (don't have vma lightning yet). I switched out IA for shackle and ilambris for shadowrend. and switched a few skills as I noted.
anyways - the point wasn't to say that my build was viable in open world or bg pvp. the point was to say that a very poorly implemented version of the magsorc still had pretty damn good success in bg's - and that a properly specced/geared magsorc would be a nightmare.
It is quite well-known that sorcs are somewhat beginner-friendly, so you should expect such results, especially with pets in small scales and places.
But once you've played for a couple years, or got to top-tier PvP, you'll start noticing that sorcs lack a few tools to reach the same maximum performance that other classes do. ESPECIALLY nightblades. A single Battleground session just isn't a good basis for in-depth balancing decisions.
1. No pressure
Sure, there's Curse, but that's every four seconds. Sorcs have no good DoT, stop attacking completely while shielding, and frontloading Fury is also a pressure loss with its tiny 3k tooltip. In a duel, pressure is everything
2. No scaling defenses
Hate on shields all you want, but the truth is, it doesn't scale with number of opponents. Two people should have no problem to burn through shields. Many sorcs therefore sacrifice something to get a couple more dodgerolls, as they scale. But they do sacrifice something. This is why experienced players know IMMEDIATELY what kind of player you are when you and your group got taken out by a single sorc.
3. No debuffs or resource pressure
There is no Major Breech attached to our spammable. And Force Pulse has only a low status effect chance. We have no snare, and are weak to it, completely nullifying our mobility argument. We have only one reasonable root, mines. And they are defensive, easily-counter, and therefore not worth slotting anymore. NBs and DKs ALWAYS also attack their opponent's stamina with their roots, which is deciding in mag fights. And speaking of, built-in Maim is RIDICULOUS. As a sorc, you need sets for that, which means less offense.
4. Lack of speed
Sorcs are very stiff in Cyro. They have to predict in advance what fights they can take, as they cannot, I repeat, cannot get away from gapclosers. Yes, Nightblades can cloak. It doesn't work always, but more often than not. With sorc it's zero escape. And once you're engaged, you have to build up a correct sequence of four skills while defending, positioning, aiming and checking surroundings. There is no sudden "Turnaroundincapspectral" for sorcs. And don't get me started on Streak, the only skill in the whole game that punishes you for using it. Whereas avstacking cost proposal for Cloak met a resounding protest from the forumblades. Double standard, much?
5. Sustain
Admittedly, this has gotten better with Lich, Amberplasm and Shacklebreaker. But sorc skills are still very expensive. Our sustain tool sucks stamina, which needs to be compensated for. And again, Streak. Sorcs are forced to use a sustain set, which is okay, but then SOME MORE. Be it food, glyphs, another sustain set - sorcs cannot live on one sustain set alone, and that shows in damage numbers.
I’ve yet to see a Sorc make a valid argument, or not point a finger and make up some unrelated bs comparison... it’s OP. It’s that simple You lose ALL credibility instantly when you say otherwise.
Can we have that objectivity when it comes to other classes as well?
If it true, go for it.0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »the rune cage burst meta is horrible and offers 0 counterplay. stacking 30k damage with a undodgeable/unblockable cc is OP
fix runecage by making the sorcs not be able to shield if they have it slotted. why should you be able to one shot everyone if we cant do it back?
The one shot you speak of takes at least 8 button presses, 10, if you throw in the ultimate.
Really? 1. Haunting curse, 2. Meteor, 3. Rune cage, 4. Endless fury, 5. Crystal frag.
That's weird.... I can do it in 5.... must not be OP.
@Hutch679
Apparently you never learned to weave. Proving once again that most people complaining about sorcs have a L2P issue. If that combo kills you with no LA's or enchant damage, your defense is just horrible.Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »the rune cage burst meta is horrible and offers 0 counterplay. stacking 30k damage with a undodgeable/unblockable cc is OP
fix runecage by making the sorcs not be able to shield if they have it slotted. why should you be able to one shot everyone if we cant do it back?
The one shot you speak of takes at least 8 button presses, 10, if you throw in the ultimate.
Not unless you're running spinners, elegant and slim claw then it's only 3 buttons.
Runecage > Hardcast Frags, Overload. All three pieces hit at once.
Admittedly it took a lot of testing and tweaking to get my CP right but my Frag hits for 13k and overload 27k against my testing partner, who had 30k hp with 40k spell resist with 4k critical resist.....
@SirDopey
If you rune cage me then hard cast frags, I have broken free and dodgerolled both the frags and the overload with the same doderoll.
@Oreyn_Bearclaw > every player that's ever played any MMO. Because he is God and knows all. Can counter every counter and every argument.
I'm saying you can pull that combo and it kills people. It's not a matter of weaving or skill. Its numbers. A 7k meteor, a 3.5k haunting curse, a 4.5k crystal frag, a 2k endless fury is = 17k damage. That's drops about 90% of players into execute, proc implosion, and execute from endless fury.
You mentioned weaving attacks... lmao which just makes the combo wayyyyy stronger. Now you're for sure dropping them into execute.
The point is, EVEN WITHOUT WEAVING THE COMBO CAN KILL YOU. No shyyt you should weave attacks. I was making a point. Everytime someone says something in hear it's taken out of context and made into something it's not. So your "L2P" issue is really a bunch of BS. Clearly you dont know how to "math".
@Hutch679
Let's take those numbers as true. That means it takes you to execute if your health is less than 22k and you did literally nothing to mitigate any of the damage. I am sorry, but that defines a bad player. I am not saying that's you, and sure, a good portion of the playerbase in PVP have no idea what you are doing, but that kinda brings us back to what a lot of us have been saying for a long time.
Sorcs excel at killing bad players. They dont understand how to handle a burst combo, so they get one-shot and respawn on the forums without really knowing what happened. They also cant kill a sorc because they only see health bars and dont understand how to pressure someone stamina pool.
Let's also not forget that every class has a counter to at least part of that combo. DKs have wings, Wardens have shimmering shield, templars have purge, and NBs can cloak.
I am not saying that a sorc burst combo isnt strong. It is and it should be, that's how the class was designed. I am not saying that rune cage isnt perhaps over performing a bit, IMO, the range should be toned down to gap closer range.
What I am saying is that if you are just constantly falling over dead to a sorc, or believe they are the most powerful class in PVP, I question your knowledge and your skill level. Of course they are going to kill you once in a while, as can any class. I play mSorc, mDK, sNB, and sWarden all with some regularity. On none of those classes do I find sorcs to be my toughest counter. They are not the go to for 1vXers, and they are not winning high end dueling tournaments with any kind of regularity (of course there are good sorc duelers, but that's true of any class). They dont dominate pre-made BG groups, although most will have one. They only place they arguably dominate is in low MMR/Solo queue BGs, but that sort of brings us back to the point that sorcs are good at killing bad players.
What do you do to mitigate damage while your stuck in a stun from rune cage? Because if there is some magical skill you can cast while in rune cage it's new to me. Haunting curse has a 3 second delay and is unblockable, meteor is on delay, rune cage is on delay making meteor and haunting curse hit at same time, frag is practically instant while you're stunned, endless fury hits you while you are stunned. I love the whole "you did nothing" argument you make, like you can just hit the "survive button" which saves you from all that damage that you can apparently avoid while you are already stunned.
@Hutch679
If rune cage hits you, it's perhaps too late. That said, you can typically CC break and dodgroll and likely miss a lot of the burst.
A sorc will cast at least two setup skills before you are CC'ed, Curse and fury, and if they are going for the mega combo with meteor, that has it's own audible tell as well that will give you time to react. If someone casts meteor and immediately casts rune cage, then you absolutely have enough time to break the CC and rolldoge/block before meteor hits. It takes very precise timing to CC someone just as your meteor hits. Not saying it's not possible, but your average sorc is not doing this with any kind of consistency.
The second you get cursed, you better start with the counter play. A templar should purge, makes the skill go away. A DK should cast Wings, nullifies a good chunk of the combo, same can be said with warden and Shimmering Shield. A NB can simply cloak. Yes the curse will pull you out of a cloak, but you arent pulling the combo off if a NB cloaks immediately after you curse. It just resets the timing for the combo so you need to start over. If you are playing sorc, you should immediately start your shield stack.
I am also guessing that this hypothetical player is not CC breaking in a timely manner. Getting all of these skills to hit at once is much harder than it sounds. In reality, there is almost always going to be at least 2 seconds from start to finish on the sorc burst. You should only be CCed for a second at most. A meteor can at most be cast once per minute, which is longer than your potion cooldown. If I hear a meteor coming, I will always pop an imov pot if it is up.
Counter play absolutely exists. Perma blockers and perma dodgers eat this combo for breakfast. Magic characters of every class have a way to counter if they are on their game. Of course, we have the problem of sorcs casting this skill out of left field, which is why most people that are objective about this skill concede the range prob needs toned down a bit. Unblockable/undodgeble CCs have been around a while.
So basically you're defending sorcs and saying they have plenty of counter play and there is no issue with their current class skills. You're saying that you can avoid the damage easily and passing it off as only bad players due to it.... what a joke lol you play on xbox name? Or garbage PC where about 1 in 75 players are actually halfway decent at pvp?
Actually, I have stated multiple times that rune cage needs some tweaking, as it is certainly over performing on live. But sure, read into what I said however you want. I am simply saying that there is counter play for every class to a sorc burst combo. Is it always easy, of course not, but that's why scrubs have a high tendency to get nuked by a sorc and respawn here on the forums. The counter play is not easy, but it certainly exists. That is true of any class that is played at a high level.
Also, LMAO about your PC comment. First if you bothered to look at a signature, it's pretty obvious I play PC. It's also pretty obvious that I play every class in this game. If you think PC is garbage, you are clueless and any credibility you had left is gone. I am not saying there arent good console players, but the competition level is so much higher on PC.0 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »the rune cage burst meta is horrible and offers 0 counterplay. stacking 30k damage with a undodgeable/unblockable cc is OP
fix runecage by making the sorcs not be able to shield if they have it slotted. why should you be able to one shot everyone if we cant do it back?
The one shot you speak of takes at least 8 button presses, 10, if you throw in the ultimate.
Really? 1. Haunting curse, 2. Meteor, 3. Rune cage, 4. Endless fury, 5. Crystal frag.
That's weird.... I can do it in 5.... must not be OP.
@Hutch679
Apparently you never learned to weave. Proving once again that most people complaining about sorcs have a L2P issue. If that combo kills you with no LA's or enchant damage, your defense is just horrible.Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »the rune cage burst meta is horrible and offers 0 counterplay. stacking 30k damage with a undodgeable/unblockable cc is OP
fix runecage by making the sorcs not be able to shield if they have it slotted. why should you be able to one shot everyone if we cant do it back?
The one shot you speak of takes at least 8 button presses, 10, if you throw in the ultimate.
Not unless you're running spinners, elegant and slim claw then it's only 3 buttons.
Runecage > Hardcast Frags, Overload. All three pieces hit at once.
Admittedly it took a lot of testing and tweaking to get my CP right but my Frag hits for 13k and overload 27k against my testing partner, who had 30k hp with 40k spell resist with 4k critical resist.....
@SirDopey
If you rune cage me then hard cast frags, I have broken free and dodgerolled both the frags and the overload with the same doderoll.
@Oreyn_Bearclaw > every player that's ever played any MMO. Because he is God and knows all. Can counter every counter and every argument.
I'm saying you can pull that combo and it kills people. It's not a matter of weaving or skill. Its numbers. A 7k meteor, a 3.5k haunting curse, a 4.5k crystal frag, a 2k endless fury is = 17k damage. That's drops about 90% of players into execute, proc implosion, and execute from endless fury.
You mentioned weaving attacks... lmao which just makes the combo wayyyyy stronger. Now you're for sure dropping them into execute.
The point is, EVEN WITHOUT WEAVING THE COMBO CAN KILL YOU. No shyyt you should weave attacks. I was making a point. Everytime someone says something in hear it's taken out of context and made into something it's not. So your "L2P" issue is really a bunch of BS. Clearly you dont know how to "math".
@Hutch679
Let's take those numbers as true. That means it takes you to execute if your health is less than 22k and you did literally nothing to mitigate any of the damage. I am sorry, but that defines a bad player. I am not saying that's you, and sure, a good portion of the playerbase in PVP have no idea what you are doing, but that kinda brings us back to what a lot of us have been saying for a long time.
Sorcs excel at killing bad players. They dont understand how to handle a burst combo, so they get one-shot and respawn on the forums without really knowing what happened. They also cant kill a sorc because they only see health bars and dont understand how to pressure someone stamina pool.
Let's also not forget that every class has a counter to at least part of that combo. DKs have wings, Wardens have shimmering shield, templars have purge, and NBs can cloak.
I am not saying that a sorc burst combo isnt strong. It is and it should be, that's how the class was designed. I am not saying that rune cage isnt perhaps over performing a bit, IMO, the range should be toned down to gap closer range.
What I am saying is that if you are just constantly falling over dead to a sorc, or believe they are the most powerful class in PVP, I question your knowledge and your skill level. Of course they are going to kill you once in a while, as can any class. I play mSorc, mDK, sNB, and sWarden all with some regularity. On none of those classes do I find sorcs to be my toughest counter. They are not the go to for 1vXers, and they are not winning high end dueling tournaments with any kind of regularity (of course there are good sorc duelers, but that's true of any class). They dont dominate pre-made BG groups, although most will have one. They only place they arguably dominate is in low MMR/Solo queue BGs, but that sort of brings us back to the point that sorcs are good at killing bad players.
What do you do to mitigate damage while your stuck in a stun from rune cage? Because if there is some magical skill you can cast while in rune cage it's new to me. Haunting curse has a 3 second delay and is unblockable, meteor is on delay, rune cage is on delay making meteor and haunting curse hit at same time, frag is practically instant while you're stunned, endless fury hits you while you are stunned. I love the whole "you did nothing" argument you make, like you can just hit the "survive button" which saves you from all that damage that you can apparently avoid while you are already stunned.
@Hutch679
If rune cage hits you, it's perhaps too late. That said, you can typically CC break and dodgroll and likely miss a lot of the burst.
A sorc will cast at least two setup skills before you are CC'ed, Curse and fury, and if they are going for the mega combo with meteor, that has it's own audible tell as well that will give you time to react. If someone casts meteor and immediately casts rune cage, then you absolutely have enough time to break the CC and rolldoge/block before meteor hits. It takes very precise timing to CC someone just as your meteor hits. Not saying it's not possible, but your average sorc is not doing this with any kind of consistency.
The second you get cursed, you better start with the counter play. A templar should purge, makes the skill go away. A DK should cast Wings, nullifies a good chunk of the combo, same can be said with warden and Shimmering Shield. A NB can simply cloak. Yes the curse will pull you out of a cloak, but you arent pulling the combo off if a NB cloaks immediately after you curse. It just resets the timing for the combo so you need to start over. If you are playing sorc, you should immediately start your shield stack.
I am also guessing that this hypothetical player is not CC breaking in a timely manner. Getting all of these skills to hit at once is much harder than it sounds. In reality, there is almost always going to be at least 2 seconds from start to finish on the sorc burst. You should only be CCed for a second at most. A meteor can at most be cast once per minute, which is longer than your potion cooldown. If I hear a meteor coming, I will always pop an imov pot if it is up.
Counter play absolutely exists. Perma blockers and perma dodgers eat this combo for breakfast. Magic characters of every class have a way to counter if they are on their game. Of course, we have the problem of sorcs casting this skill out of left field, which is why most people that are objective about this skill concede the range prob needs toned down a bit. Unblockable/undodgeble CCs have been around a while.
So basically you're defending sorcs and saying they have plenty of counter play and there is no issue with their current class skills. You're saying that you can avoid the damage easily and passing it off as only bad players due to it.... what a joke lol you play on xbox name? Or garbage PC where about 1 in 75 players are actually halfway decent at pvp?
Actually, I have stated multiple times that rune cage needs some tweaking, as it is certainly over performing on live. But sure, read into what I said however you want. I am simply saying that there is counter play for every class to a sorc burst combo. Is it always easy, of course not, but that's why scrubs have a high tendency to get nuked by a sorc and respawn here on the forums. The counter play is not easy, but it certainly exists. That is true of any class that is played at a high level.
Also, LMAO about your PC comment. First if you bothered to look at a signature, it's pretty obvious I play PC. It's also pretty obvious that I play every class in this game. If you think PC is garbage, you are clueless and any credibility you had left is gone. I am not saying there arent good console players, but the competition level is so much higher on PC.
Agree to disagree. Everyone is not on the same playing field for PC with add-ons, different rigs, different peripherals, etc.
Overall on console, you get a more balanced and competitive environment.3 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Overall on console, you get a more balanced and competitive environment.
Yeah, it’s called freezing.
@brandonv516Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.3 -
KingLogix✭✭✭The_Outsider wrote: »
^I mean that's completely unreasonable buuuut.the rune cage burst meta is horrible and offers 0 counterplay. stacking 30k damage with a undodgeable/unblockable cc is OP
fix runecage by making the sorcs not be able to shield if they have it slotted. why should you be able to one shot everyone if we cant do it back?
Kind of agree. Busted out the ol' mSorc just for tier 1 rewards on Vivec before campaign end. Had some antiquated setup (haven't played mSorc since Elegant meta). Bursting people was the easiest thing I've ever done in this game. I sneezed on people from 28m and they died. In all seriousness tho, mSorc is the most well designed class in the game IMO. It felt powerful in general and offensively it flowed smooth af-- it was fun.
Realistically the counterplay to rune cage is the same as fear/fossilize. Don't let your health drop below 60-75% and expect to get CC'd. The difference is that rune cage is easier to land and you're more likely to die from insta-execute.
The difference between rune cage, fossilize and fear is that one is much more punishing to be CC in then the other two. Sorcs can apply what they need first, hold a frag AND THEN CC you(This allows for more control when bursting then fear and fossilize.). the only thing they need to do after that is let their frag go(cant be too hard right?) and spam the endless fury button until the lettering fades away from the key.2 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭brandonv516 wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »the rune cage burst meta is horrible and offers 0 counterplay. stacking 30k damage with a undodgeable/unblockable cc is OP
fix runecage by making the sorcs not be able to shield if they have it slotted. why should you be able to one shot everyone if we cant do it back?
The one shot you speak of takes at least 8 button presses, 10, if you throw in the ultimate.
Really? 1. Haunting curse, 2. Meteor, 3. Rune cage, 4. Endless fury, 5. Crystal frag.
That's weird.... I can do it in 5.... must not be OP.
@Hutch679
Apparently you never learned to weave. Proving once again that most people complaining about sorcs have a L2P issue. If that combo kills you with no LA's or enchant damage, your defense is just horrible.Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »the rune cage burst meta is horrible and offers 0 counterplay. stacking 30k damage with a undodgeable/unblockable cc is OP
fix runecage by making the sorcs not be able to shield if they have it slotted. why should you be able to one shot everyone if we cant do it back?
The one shot you speak of takes at least 8 button presses, 10, if you throw in the ultimate.
Not unless you're running spinners, elegant and slim claw then it's only 3 buttons.
Runecage > Hardcast Frags, Overload. All three pieces hit at once.
Admittedly it took a lot of testing and tweaking to get my CP right but my Frag hits for 13k and overload 27k against my testing partner, who had 30k hp with 40k spell resist with 4k critical resist.....
@SirDopey
If you rune cage me then hard cast frags, I have broken free and dodgerolled both the frags and the overload with the same doderoll.
@Oreyn_Bearclaw > every player that's ever played any MMO. Because he is God and knows all. Can counter every counter and every argument.
I'm saying you can pull that combo and it kills people. It's not a matter of weaving or skill. Its numbers. A 7k meteor, a 3.5k haunting curse, a 4.5k crystal frag, a 2k endless fury is = 17k damage. That's drops about 90% of players into execute, proc implosion, and execute from endless fury.
You mentioned weaving attacks... lmao which just makes the combo wayyyyy stronger. Now you're for sure dropping them into execute.
The point is, EVEN WITHOUT WEAVING THE COMBO CAN KILL YOU. No shyyt you should weave attacks. I was making a point. Everytime someone says something in hear it's taken out of context and made into something it's not. So your "L2P" issue is really a bunch of BS. Clearly you dont know how to "math".
@Hutch679
Let's take those numbers as true. That means it takes you to execute if your health is less than 22k and you did literally nothing to mitigate any of the damage. I am sorry, but that defines a bad player. I am not saying that's you, and sure, a good portion of the playerbase in PVP have no idea what you are doing, but that kinda brings us back to what a lot of us have been saying for a long time.
Sorcs excel at killing bad players. They dont understand how to handle a burst combo, so they get one-shot and respawn on the forums without really knowing what happened. They also cant kill a sorc because they only see health bars and dont understand how to pressure someone stamina pool.
Let's also not forget that every class has a counter to at least part of that combo. DKs have wings, Wardens have shimmering shield, templars have purge, and NBs can cloak.
I am not saying that a sorc burst combo isnt strong. It is and it should be, that's how the class was designed. I am not saying that rune cage isnt perhaps over performing a bit, IMO, the range should be toned down to gap closer range.
What I am saying is that if you are just constantly falling over dead to a sorc, or believe they are the most powerful class in PVP, I question your knowledge and your skill level. Of course they are going to kill you once in a while, as can any class. I play mSorc, mDK, sNB, and sWarden all with some regularity. On none of those classes do I find sorcs to be my toughest counter. They are not the go to for 1vXers, and they are not winning high end dueling tournaments with any kind of regularity (of course there are good sorc duelers, but that's true of any class). They dont dominate pre-made BG groups, although most will have one. They only place they arguably dominate is in low MMR/Solo queue BGs, but that sort of brings us back to the point that sorcs are good at killing bad players.
What do you do to mitigate damage while your stuck in a stun from rune cage? Because if there is some magical skill you can cast while in rune cage it's new to me. Haunting curse has a 3 second delay and is unblockable, meteor is on delay, rune cage is on delay making meteor and haunting curse hit at same time, frag is practically instant while you're stunned, endless fury hits you while you are stunned. I love the whole "you did nothing" argument you make, like you can just hit the "survive button" which saves you from all that damage that you can apparently avoid while you are already stunned.
@Hutch679
If rune cage hits you, it's perhaps too late. That said, you can typically CC break and dodgroll and likely miss a lot of the burst.
A sorc will cast at least two setup skills before you are CC'ed, Curse and fury, and if they are going for the mega combo with meteor, that has it's own audible tell as well that will give you time to react. If someone casts meteor and immediately casts rune cage, then you absolutely have enough time to break the CC and rolldoge/block before meteor hits. It takes very precise timing to CC someone just as your meteor hits. Not saying it's not possible, but your average sorc is not doing this with any kind of consistency.
The second you get cursed, you better start with the counter play. A templar should purge, makes the skill go away. A DK should cast Wings, nullifies a good chunk of the combo, same can be said with warden and Shimmering Shield. A NB can simply cloak. Yes the curse will pull you out of a cloak, but you arent pulling the combo off if a NB cloaks immediately after you curse. It just resets the timing for the combo so you need to start over. If you are playing sorc, you should immediately start your shield stack.
I am also guessing that this hypothetical player is not CC breaking in a timely manner. Getting all of these skills to hit at once is much harder than it sounds. In reality, there is almost always going to be at least 2 seconds from start to finish on the sorc burst. You should only be CCed for a second at most. A meteor can at most be cast once per minute, which is longer than your potion cooldown. If I hear a meteor coming, I will always pop an imov pot if it is up.
Counter play absolutely exists. Perma blockers and perma dodgers eat this combo for breakfast. Magic characters of every class have a way to counter if they are on their game. Of course, we have the problem of sorcs casting this skill out of left field, which is why most people that are objective about this skill concede the range prob needs toned down a bit. Unblockable/undodgeble CCs have been around a while.
So basically you're defending sorcs and saying they have plenty of counter play and there is no issue with their current class skills. You're saying that you can avoid the damage easily and passing it off as only bad players due to it.... what a joke lol you play on xbox name? Or garbage PC where about 1 in 75 players are actually halfway decent at pvp?
Actually, I have stated multiple times that rune cage needs some tweaking, as it is certainly over performing on live. But sure, read into what I said however you want. I am simply saying that there is counter play for every class to a sorc burst combo. Is it always easy, of course not, but that's why scrubs have a high tendency to get nuked by a sorc and respawn here on the forums. The counter play is not easy, but it certainly exists. That is true of any class that is played at a high level.
Also, LMAO about your PC comment. First if you bothered to look at a signature, it's pretty obvious I play PC. It's also pretty obvious that I play every class in this game. If you think PC is garbage, you are clueless and any credibility you had left is gone. I am not saying there arent good console players, but the competition level is so much higher on PC.
Agree to disagree. Everyone is not on the same playing field for PC with add-ons, different rigs, different peripherals, etc.
Overall on console, you get a more balanced and competitive environment.
@brandonv516
There is certainly something to be said about console being a more even match sometimes. Everyone is playing on essentially the same rig, with the same controls and information. The difference on PC is that if you want to push it, you are going to have better frame rate, better FOV, more robust controls, and far more information available to you mid fight. For some, that can certainly be a hindrance, especially if they chose not to take advantage of it. That said, it makes good players all that much more dangerous if they are able to utilize all of this to their advantage. PC essentially has the same potential floor as Console, because there are certainly plenty of people running around in gamepad mode and no addons, but the ceiling on PC is MUCH higher.
If you were able to let the best PVP players in the world use their rigs and addons in a console environment, they would absolutely destroy people using a gamepad with no addons. I would also argue that on average, someone that builds a custom gaming rig takes their gaming a little more seriously than someone playing on console, but certainly, there are external economic factors there as well.Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on July 24, 2018 4:27PM1 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »brandonv516 wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »the rune cage burst meta is horrible and offers 0 counterplay. stacking 30k damage with a undodgeable/unblockable cc is OP
fix runecage by making the sorcs not be able to shield if they have it slotted. why should you be able to one shot everyone if we cant do it back?
The one shot you speak of takes at least 8 button presses, 10, if you throw in the ultimate.
Really? 1. Haunting curse, 2. Meteor, 3. Rune cage, 4. Endless fury, 5. Crystal frag.
That's weird.... I can do it in 5.... must not be OP.
@Hutch679
Apparently you never learned to weave. Proving once again that most people complaining about sorcs have a L2P issue. If that combo kills you with no LA's or enchant damage, your defense is just horrible.Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »the rune cage burst meta is horrible and offers 0 counterplay. stacking 30k damage with a undodgeable/unblockable cc is OP
fix runecage by making the sorcs not be able to shield if they have it slotted. why should you be able to one shot everyone if we cant do it back?
The one shot you speak of takes at least 8 button presses, 10, if you throw in the ultimate.
Not unless you're running spinners, elegant and slim claw then it's only 3 buttons.
Runecage > Hardcast Frags, Overload. All three pieces hit at once.
Admittedly it took a lot of testing and tweaking to get my CP right but my Frag hits for 13k and overload 27k against my testing partner, who had 30k hp with 40k spell resist with 4k critical resist.....
@SirDopey
If you rune cage me then hard cast frags, I have broken free and dodgerolled both the frags and the overload with the same doderoll.
@Oreyn_Bearclaw > every player that's ever played any MMO. Because he is God and knows all. Can counter every counter and every argument.
I'm saying you can pull that combo and it kills people. It's not a matter of weaving or skill. Its numbers. A 7k meteor, a 3.5k haunting curse, a 4.5k crystal frag, a 2k endless fury is = 17k damage. That's drops about 90% of players into execute, proc implosion, and execute from endless fury.
You mentioned weaving attacks... lmao which just makes the combo wayyyyy stronger. Now you're for sure dropping them into execute.
The point is, EVEN WITHOUT WEAVING THE COMBO CAN KILL YOU. No shyyt you should weave attacks. I was making a point. Everytime someone says something in hear it's taken out of context and made into something it's not. So your "L2P" issue is really a bunch of BS. Clearly you dont know how to "math".
@Hutch679
Let's take those numbers as true. That means it takes you to execute if your health is less than 22k and you did literally nothing to mitigate any of the damage. I am sorry, but that defines a bad player. I am not saying that's you, and sure, a good portion of the playerbase in PVP have no idea what you are doing, but that kinda brings us back to what a lot of us have been saying for a long time.
Sorcs excel at killing bad players. They dont understand how to handle a burst combo, so they get one-shot and respawn on the forums without really knowing what happened. They also cant kill a sorc because they only see health bars and dont understand how to pressure someone stamina pool.
Let's also not forget that every class has a counter to at least part of that combo. DKs have wings, Wardens have shimmering shield, templars have purge, and NBs can cloak.
I am not saying that a sorc burst combo isnt strong. It is and it should be, that's how the class was designed. I am not saying that rune cage isnt perhaps over performing a bit, IMO, the range should be toned down to gap closer range.
What I am saying is that if you are just constantly falling over dead to a sorc, or believe they are the most powerful class in PVP, I question your knowledge and your skill level. Of course they are going to kill you once in a while, as can any class. I play mSorc, mDK, sNB, and sWarden all with some regularity. On none of those classes do I find sorcs to be my toughest counter. They are not the go to for 1vXers, and they are not winning high end dueling tournaments with any kind of regularity (of course there are good sorc duelers, but that's true of any class). They dont dominate pre-made BG groups, although most will have one. They only place they arguably dominate is in low MMR/Solo queue BGs, but that sort of brings us back to the point that sorcs are good at killing bad players.
What do you do to mitigate damage while your stuck in a stun from rune cage? Because if there is some magical skill you can cast while in rune cage it's new to me. Haunting curse has a 3 second delay and is unblockable, meteor is on delay, rune cage is on delay making meteor and haunting curse hit at same time, frag is practically instant while you're stunned, endless fury hits you while you are stunned. I love the whole "you did nothing" argument you make, like you can just hit the "survive button" which saves you from all that damage that you can apparently avoid while you are already stunned.
@Hutch679
If rune cage hits you, it's perhaps too late. That said, you can typically CC break and dodgroll and likely miss a lot of the burst.
A sorc will cast at least two setup skills before you are CC'ed, Curse and fury, and if they are going for the mega combo with meteor, that has it's own audible tell as well that will give you time to react. If someone casts meteor and immediately casts rune cage, then you absolutely have enough time to break the CC and rolldoge/block before meteor hits. It takes very precise timing to CC someone just as your meteor hits. Not saying it's not possible, but your average sorc is not doing this with any kind of consistency.
The second you get cursed, you better start with the counter play. A templar should purge, makes the skill go away. A DK should cast Wings, nullifies a good chunk of the combo, same can be said with warden and Shimmering Shield. A NB can simply cloak. Yes the curse will pull you out of a cloak, but you arent pulling the combo off if a NB cloaks immediately after you curse. It just resets the timing for the combo so you need to start over. If you are playing sorc, you should immediately start your shield stack.
I am also guessing that this hypothetical player is not CC breaking in a timely manner. Getting all of these skills to hit at once is much harder than it sounds. In reality, there is almost always going to be at least 2 seconds from start to finish on the sorc burst. You should only be CCed for a second at most. A meteor can at most be cast once per minute, which is longer than your potion cooldown. If I hear a meteor coming, I will always pop an imov pot if it is up.
Counter play absolutely exists. Perma blockers and perma dodgers eat this combo for breakfast. Magic characters of every class have a way to counter if they are on their game. Of course, we have the problem of sorcs casting this skill out of left field, which is why most people that are objective about this skill concede the range prob needs toned down a bit. Unblockable/undodgeble CCs have been around a while.
So basically you're defending sorcs and saying they have plenty of counter play and there is no issue with their current class skills. You're saying that you can avoid the damage easily and passing it off as only bad players due to it.... what a joke lol you play on xbox name? Or garbage PC where about 1 in 75 players are actually halfway decent at pvp?
Actually, I have stated multiple times that rune cage needs some tweaking, as it is certainly over performing on live. But sure, read into what I said however you want. I am simply saying that there is counter play for every class to a sorc burst combo. Is it always easy, of course not, but that's why scrubs have a high tendency to get nuked by a sorc and respawn here on the forums. The counter play is not easy, but it certainly exists. That is true of any class that is played at a high level.
Also, LMAO about your PC comment. First if you bothered to look at a signature, it's pretty obvious I play PC. It's also pretty obvious that I play every class in this game. If you think PC is garbage, you are clueless and any credibility you had left is gone. I am not saying there arent good console players, but the competition level is so much higher on PC.
Agree to disagree. Everyone is not on the same playing field for PC with add-ons, different rigs, different peripherals, etc.
Overall on console, you get a more balanced and competitive environment.
@brandonv516
There is certainly something to be said about console being a more even match sometimes. Everyone is playing on essentially the same rig, with the same controls and information. The difference on PC is that if you want to push it, you are going to have better frame rate, better FOV, more robust controls, and far more information available to you mid fight. For some, that can certainly be a hindrance, especially if they chose not to take advantage of it. That said, it makes good players all that much more dangerous if they are able to utilize all of this to their advantage. PC essentially has the same potential floor as Console, because there are certainly plenty of people running around in gamepad mode and no addons, but the ceiling on PC is MUCH higher.
If you were able to let the best PVP players in the world use their rigs and addons in a console environment, they would absolutely destroy people using a gamepad with no addons. I would also argue that on average, someone that builds a custom gaming rig takes their gaming a little more seriously than someone playing on console, but certainly, there are external economic factors there as well.
Well that's pretty obvious how that would go. That's like a Chevy Corvette vs. a Chevy Malibu.
Let the best PC pvp players using the best tools play the best Xbox pvp players with subpar tools. Why are we even discussing such a situation?
You are going way off topic...and I'm not venturing any further down this elitist road.Edited by brandonv516 on July 24, 2018 4:36PM0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭brandonv516 wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »brandonv516 wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »the rune cage burst meta is horrible and offers 0 counterplay. stacking 30k damage with a undodgeable/unblockable cc is OP
fix runecage by making the sorcs not be able to shield if they have it slotted. why should you be able to one shot everyone if we cant do it back?
The one shot you speak of takes at least 8 button presses, 10, if you throw in the ultimate.
Really? 1. Haunting curse, 2. Meteor, 3. Rune cage, 4. Endless fury, 5. Crystal frag.
That's weird.... I can do it in 5.... must not be OP.
@Hutch679
Apparently you never learned to weave. Proving once again that most people complaining about sorcs have a L2P issue. If that combo kills you with no LA's or enchant damage, your defense is just horrible.Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »the rune cage burst meta is horrible and offers 0 counterplay. stacking 30k damage with a undodgeable/unblockable cc is OP
fix runecage by making the sorcs not be able to shield if they have it slotted. why should you be able to one shot everyone if we cant do it back?
The one shot you speak of takes at least 8 button presses, 10, if you throw in the ultimate.
Not unless you're running spinners, elegant and slim claw then it's only 3 buttons.
Runecage > Hardcast Frags, Overload. All three pieces hit at once.
Admittedly it took a lot of testing and tweaking to get my CP right but my Frag hits for 13k and overload 27k against my testing partner, who had 30k hp with 40k spell resist with 4k critical resist.....
@SirDopey
If you rune cage me then hard cast frags, I have broken free and dodgerolled both the frags and the overload with the same doderoll.
@Oreyn_Bearclaw > every player that's ever played any MMO. Because he is God and knows all. Can counter every counter and every argument.
I'm saying you can pull that combo and it kills people. It's not a matter of weaving or skill. Its numbers. A 7k meteor, a 3.5k haunting curse, a 4.5k crystal frag, a 2k endless fury is = 17k damage. That's drops about 90% of players into execute, proc implosion, and execute from endless fury.
You mentioned weaving attacks... lmao which just makes the combo wayyyyy stronger. Now you're for sure dropping them into execute.
The point is, EVEN WITHOUT WEAVING THE COMBO CAN KILL YOU. No shyyt you should weave attacks. I was making a point. Everytime someone says something in hear it's taken out of context and made into something it's not. So your "L2P" issue is really a bunch of BS. Clearly you dont know how to "math".
@Hutch679
Let's take those numbers as true. That means it takes you to execute if your health is less than 22k and you did literally nothing to mitigate any of the damage. I am sorry, but that defines a bad player. I am not saying that's you, and sure, a good portion of the playerbase in PVP have no idea what you are doing, but that kinda brings us back to what a lot of us have been saying for a long time.
Sorcs excel at killing bad players. They dont understand how to handle a burst combo, so they get one-shot and respawn on the forums without really knowing what happened. They also cant kill a sorc because they only see health bars and dont understand how to pressure someone stamina pool.
Let's also not forget that every class has a counter to at least part of that combo. DKs have wings, Wardens have shimmering shield, templars have purge, and NBs can cloak.
I am not saying that a sorc burst combo isnt strong. It is and it should be, that's how the class was designed. I am not saying that rune cage isnt perhaps over performing a bit, IMO, the range should be toned down to gap closer range.
What I am saying is that if you are just constantly falling over dead to a sorc, or believe they are the most powerful class in PVP, I question your knowledge and your skill level. Of course they are going to kill you once in a while, as can any class. I play mSorc, mDK, sNB, and sWarden all with some regularity. On none of those classes do I find sorcs to be my toughest counter. They are not the go to for 1vXers, and they are not winning high end dueling tournaments with any kind of regularity (of course there are good sorc duelers, but that's true of any class). They dont dominate pre-made BG groups, although most will have one. They only place they arguably dominate is in low MMR/Solo queue BGs, but that sort of brings us back to the point that sorcs are good at killing bad players.
What do you do to mitigate damage while your stuck in a stun from rune cage? Because if there is some magical skill you can cast while in rune cage it's new to me. Haunting curse has a 3 second delay and is unblockable, meteor is on delay, rune cage is on delay making meteor and haunting curse hit at same time, frag is practically instant while you're stunned, endless fury hits you while you are stunned. I love the whole "you did nothing" argument you make, like you can just hit the "survive button" which saves you from all that damage that you can apparently avoid while you are already stunned.
@Hutch679
If rune cage hits you, it's perhaps too late. That said, you can typically CC break and dodgroll and likely miss a lot of the burst.
A sorc will cast at least two setup skills before you are CC'ed, Curse and fury, and if they are going for the mega combo with meteor, that has it's own audible tell as well that will give you time to react. If someone casts meteor and immediately casts rune cage, then you absolutely have enough time to break the CC and rolldoge/block before meteor hits. It takes very precise timing to CC someone just as your meteor hits. Not saying it's not possible, but your average sorc is not doing this with any kind of consistency.
The second you get cursed, you better start with the counter play. A templar should purge, makes the skill go away. A DK should cast Wings, nullifies a good chunk of the combo, same can be said with warden and Shimmering Shield. A NB can simply cloak. Yes the curse will pull you out of a cloak, but you arent pulling the combo off if a NB cloaks immediately after you curse. It just resets the timing for the combo so you need to start over. If you are playing sorc, you should immediately start your shield stack.
I am also guessing that this hypothetical player is not CC breaking in a timely manner. Getting all of these skills to hit at once is much harder than it sounds. In reality, there is almost always going to be at least 2 seconds from start to finish on the sorc burst. You should only be CCed for a second at most. A meteor can at most be cast once per minute, which is longer than your potion cooldown. If I hear a meteor coming, I will always pop an imov pot if it is up.
Counter play absolutely exists. Perma blockers and perma dodgers eat this combo for breakfast. Magic characters of every class have a way to counter if they are on their game. Of course, we have the problem of sorcs casting this skill out of left field, which is why most people that are objective about this skill concede the range prob needs toned down a bit. Unblockable/undodgeble CCs have been around a while.
So basically you're defending sorcs and saying they have plenty of counter play and there is no issue with their current class skills. You're saying that you can avoid the damage easily and passing it off as only bad players due to it.... what a joke lol you play on xbox name? Or garbage PC where about 1 in 75 players are actually halfway decent at pvp?
Actually, I have stated multiple times that rune cage needs some tweaking, as it is certainly over performing on live. But sure, read into what I said however you want. I am simply saying that there is counter play for every class to a sorc burst combo. Is it always easy, of course not, but that's why scrubs have a high tendency to get nuked by a sorc and respawn here on the forums. The counter play is not easy, but it certainly exists. That is true of any class that is played at a high level.
Also, LMAO about your PC comment. First if you bothered to look at a signature, it's pretty obvious I play PC. It's also pretty obvious that I play every class in this game. If you think PC is garbage, you are clueless and any credibility you had left is gone. I am not saying there arent good console players, but the competition level is so much higher on PC.
Agree to disagree. Everyone is not on the same playing field for PC with add-ons, different rigs, different peripherals, etc.
Overall on console, you get a more balanced and competitive environment.
@brandonv516
There is certainly something to be said about console being a more even match sometimes. Everyone is playing on essentially the same rig, with the same controls and information. The difference on PC is that if you want to push it, you are going to have better frame rate, better FOV, more robust controls, and far more information available to you mid fight. For some, that can certainly be a hindrance, especially if they chose not to take advantage of it. That said, it makes good players all that much more dangerous if they are able to utilize all of this to their advantage. PC essentially has the same potential floor as Console, because there are certainly plenty of people running around in gamepad mode and no addons, but the ceiling on PC is MUCH higher.
If you were able to let the best PVP players in the world use their rigs and addons in a console environment, they would absolutely destroy people using a gamepad with no addons. I would also argue that on average, someone that builds a custom gaming rig takes their gaming a little more seriously than someone playing on console, but certainly, there are external economic factors there as well.
Well that's pretty obvious how that would go. That's like a Chevy Corvette vs. a Chevy Malibu.
Let the best PC pvp players using the best tools play the best Xbox pvp players with subpar tools. Why are we even discussing such a situation?
You are going way off topic...and I'm not venturing any further down this elitist road.
@brandonv516
Yes, off topic, but how is it elitist? I am simply discussing the realities of both PC and Console. My conclusion is that the best players on PC are far more potent than the best players on Console due to the tools at their disposal. Do you disagree with that? The point of the last paragraph was to illustrate that point, not suggesting that it would ever actually happen or that it would be even remotely a good idea. Of course it's a Corvette vs a Malibu, that is my point.
The logic follows that if you are an average player you are actually going to see a bigger skill gap between yourself and the best players on PC than you would on console, because as you stated, console is a more level playing field, but if you really want to push this game to its limits you need to be playing on PC.
I just fail to understand how that makes me an elitist. Do PCs not have better performance? Do they not have more information available to them? Do they not have largeer fields of view if running higher resolutions? Do they not have better control over their characters once they ditch the gamepad? Of course they do. I am not slamming console players in the slightest. I am simply discussing the differences between the platforms.
In fact, to bring this back around to the thread, I think that is one reason that a lot of people screaming about sorcs are in fact on console. PC certainly makes it easier to realize if you have been cursed, etc, and to react accordingly. Which is why good players on PC, dont see the same problems that average console players do. That begs the bigger question, and perhaps this will make me sound elitest, is it a good idea to balance the game around the lowest common denominator? I would argue no, but at the same time, I wouldnt balance it around the elite PC 1vXer either.0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Also, PTS patch notes just reverted this skill back to pre-summerset. Forums werent complaining about it then at least...1
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