Alliance war ranks, do they cost too much AP?

VaranisArano · July 2018

Seri wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I look at the difference between my AP and a Grand Overlord's. I've got a long way to go.

I look at the difference between my PVP skill/experience and that of the Grand Overlords I know personally. I've got a long way to go.

Sounds about right to me.

The majority of GOs are just 24/7 players running in a ball group rolling over PUGs. Has nothing to do with knowledge of the game or "skill". For an average player, spending a few hours a week in Cyrodiil ( like 5-10 and that's probably already on the higher end ), GO is still basically unachievable, no matter how skilled he is.

If someone manages to play PVP all the way to 64 million AP and doesn't have some sort of skill at PVP (even if that's just being really good at zerg-surfing and being there to leech ticks), I'd be impressed.

Its hard to do that much of something, and not learn anything.

But as I said, when I look at the skill and experience of the Grand Overlords I know personally, I know I've got a long way to go. And yeah, some of that is just the sheer hours they've put into PVP.

Skill takes practice. Practice takes hours. There's no way around that.

If you'd said that prior to last year's Midyear Mayhem, I'd have agreed with you - to the point that even Tribune or Brigadier you'd assume would have some idea on how to fight, both 1v1 open world or at keeps. Since then I've seen AR30+ players that I don't know how they got there. I still remember the time a Praetorian rank sorc tried to engage me (at the time, Prefect) off a horse, and then ran away as I dismounted leaving me wondering 'wtf'?

I mean, I'll be honest, my highest ranked character is a Palatine. Its my Group Healer, that's built for healing. If someone fights me in a 1v1 open world and they have any clue what they are doing, they are going to walk away going "Man, how TF did you get that rank, you suck as a PVPer!"

How I got that rank was being really good at being a healer in an organized raid, capturing lots of objectives, and playing that way for over a year. Even when I'm not with my organized raid, my strengths lie in reading the map to know where fights are, healing groups, and capturing/defending objectives. No one will ever write home about my 1v1 abilities, even though I'm loads better than when I first started to PVP.

My rank of Palatine doesn't represent anything about my 1v1 skill. What is does tell you is that I'm reasonably good at making AP and that I've been playing for a while. I'm no duelist, but I'm pretty good at healing and making AP through healing groups while capturing/defending objectives, which happily is exactly what I'm built for and what I like doing.

If I ever make it to Grand Overlord, I guess I'll be one of those who people look at and wonder how I got there when they kill me in the field. My answer will still be "I'm a healer. I healed my way to this rank."

Iki · July 2018

Other,(explain in comments)

If only we had account-wide alliance rank tied to faction.. But as it is now, alt-o-holics get shafted. 65 mil ap isn`t too much for highest pvp-rank, but what if you want to play more than one character actively in pvp? Then GO2-grind become unreasonable for everybody but most hardcore-players.

bg22 · July 2018

No, its just fine as is

Iki wrote: »

If only we had account-wide alliance rank tied to faction.. But as it is now, alt-o-holics get shafted. 65 mil ap isn`t too much for highest pvp-rank, but what if you want to play more than one character actively in pvp? Then GO2-grind become unreasonable for everybody but most hardcore-players.

That’s a choice you make. You can’t have it all.

JamieAubrey · July 2018

No, its just fine as is

I think its fine, It might sound a lot looking at it from rank 1 but I'm rank 43 and to get to 44 its only 3 million AP, easy to obtain in about a week of hard grinding

Hexys · July 2018

No, its just fine as is

It's more then fine, would like to see a account-wide alliance rank that takes like 300m ap to get to max rank

Kelces · July 2018

No, its just fine as is

It's even easier now than a few months before. Probably even more before then, ticks are getting larger. More of that would be ridiculous, there is no reason at all to complain about AP gain, ever...

If you are only there for the achievement and don't really want to play PvP, too bad, this is what achievements are about.

I don't know if I should laugh or be concerned about this neurotic need for completion of achievements. Just play the game and let them come to you as you go, it's much more relaxing.

Gilvoth · July 2018

No, its just fine as is

i don't want enemies to see me with i high rank, i want the element of surprise, so as soon as it gets high rank i make a new character.
but it is rising to quickly now.
so No. it needs to take alot longer, it rises too fast.

Saint_Bud · July 2018

No, its just fine as is

Last campain eu pc vicec, a dude make 25 million ap in a month. I dont see a problem with the grind to rank 50.

ZOS_JesC · July 2018

Greetings, we've removed several comments that were baiting in nature and derailing the thread. Please stay on topic with your comments. Thank you.

Biro123 · July 2018

No, its just fine as is

If you're just playing with the 'i want the rank/skill points/achievements' mindset, you're doing it wrong.
Play for fun. MMOs are about the journey, not the destination. If you don't like the journey, what are you gonna do once you get to the destination?

I hope I never get the final rank.. but if I do, I won't care. I'll still enjoy playing even with no 'reward' to aim for.

f047ys3v3n · July 2018

Yes, 65million AP for GO2 is ridiculas

Since it is character bound and not account bound yes. Basically, AP scales about like CP, these are lifetime achievement rewards and not things you can just grind out. The problem is that, with the wild wrobbly balance swings constant in ESO you really have to change classes and resources a lot to be competitive and have a good time. You could not pay me to play my magplar in PVP right now for instance.

It is pretty painful to always be having to start such a long slog again on a new toon every time the one you have been playing wrobbles into dis-functionality. Alliance rank should be either account wide or level about 15x faster. I would prefer the account wide solution so naturally we will either not change anything or go the other way.

kyle.wilson · July 2018

Other,(explain in comments)

A high PVP rank should indicate some kind of skill. With the game having been out more than 4 years now, we already have terribad zerglings gain a GO rank.
But, I can't think of anything off hand that would be a better representation of skill vs time played. That is of course in a non-exploitive way.

Aebaradath · July 2018

Other,(explain in comments)

Rank AP cost needs to be quadrupled.

JumpmanLane · July 2018

I’m a Centurion on my magdk. I wear the Daedric Lord Slayer title in PvP so some hero type Dizzying Swinging a 2H will rush in for a talons whip fossilize powerlash Leap combo thinking I’m clueless and only there for vigor and caltrops hehehehe

technohic · July 2018

No, its just fine as is

I like that it takes a while. Not specifically working on it and certainly no to collect an actual achievement, but when I get there it will be something to me without a system message where I will realize myself how long of a road it’s been.

rexagamemnon · July 2018

Yes, 65million AP for GO2 is ridiculas

Saint_Bud wrote: »

Last campain eu pc vicec, a dude make 25 million ap in a month. I dont see a problem with the grind to rank 50.

Dude had to play 10hours a day for 25days, under optimal settings then. Optimal being, plenty of players on at all the hours of play and your faction always in the win

Recremen · July 2018

Other,(explain in comments)

Hard to say. I got it after many years of PvP on one character, though I had to suffer through several metas as a suboptimal class in order to do so. A lot of people have just switched to other classes so their total AP is distributed across many classes and even many factions, as the needs of campaign balance have driven them to other alliances. It's going to be inaccessible in the long run to most players, though that's not automatically bad. The highest-end achievements shouldn't be catered to the casual players, but to the more serious ones. Still, I think it's safe to say that it's the grindiest achievement they've introduced in the game so far.

ArchMikem · July 2018

Yes, 65million AP for GO2 is ridiculas

frostz417 wrote: »

You pve’ers quit crying about the PvP ranks. It’s perfect how it is. You’re not going to get your 5 star over the span of a few days. You gotta actually grind and earn your rank. Most of us pvpers are perfectly contempt with it. You can stick to your silly trials we’ll stick to our cyrodiil. There’s already little difficult achievements for PvP as it is that are rewarding.

*Content.

Contempt means you have ah issue with it.

bjsaustrwb17_ESO · July 2018

Given that they tie skillpoints to it, I'd have thought it should be approximately in line with character levelling, in which case you'd say yes, too high. Feels a little strange to tie a portion of general character progression behind an extensive PvP grind. If it was just the title/achievement, then it'd be different.

SakuraRush · July 2018

bjsaustrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Given that they tie skillpoints to it, I'd have thought it should be approximately in line with character levelling, in which case you'd say yes, too high. Feels a little strange to tie a portion of general character progression behind an extensive PvP grind. If it was just the title/achievement, then it'd be different.

Similar to tying skill points to PvE only aspects right?

bjsaustrwb17_ESO · July 2018

SakuraRush wrote: »

Similar to tying skill points to PvE only aspects right?

Somewhat. I'd have preferred if PvP advancement used a different model than tieing into skillpoints (i.e., give them something else to earn that benefits PvP but not PvE), but it is what it is.

Girl_Number8 · July 2018

Yes, 65million AP for GO2 is ridiculas

If PvP had some skill left in it I would say no it is fine but since it doesn't, I don't want people knowing how much time I have wasted

I wish they really would let us make that rank symbol not visible~

SakuraRush · July 2018

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

If PvP had some skill left in it I would say no it is fine but since it doesn't, I don't want people knowing how much time I have wasted

I wish they really would let us make that rank symbol not visible~

"Skill" is one of those words people throw around without meaning.

When they are doing poorly it's because things take "no skill". But when they do well it's a show of how good they are.

PvP takes skill. Otherwise it would be all luck.

idk · July 2018

No, its just fine as is

rexagamemnon wrote: »

Saint_Bud wrote: »

Last campain eu pc vicec, a dude make 25 million ap in a month. I dont see a problem with the grind to rank 50.

Dude had to play 10hours a day for 25days, under optimal settings then. Optimal being, plenty of players on at all the hours of play and your faction always in the win

and I do not see the issue with this. It is intended the top ranks show a dedication to PvP. Not something given away in a meaningless manner.

It is really not different than the coveted titles in PvP that only a small percentage of players have received for clearing the newer trials on the hardest settings, especially the titles that require speed and no deaths. It takes an investment of time to be able to earn that though some do get carried from time to time.

BTW, they basically nerfed how much time it takes to get the top ranks about 2 years ago. Also, mid year mayhem will start soon.

Dillpat · July 2018

No, its just fine as is

it's not meant to be easy to get, its meant to be an achiv/title taht takes time to reach. If it took 20 mill ap near everyone who pvps on 1 chara for over a 6 month period would be GO.

Bam_Bam · July 2018

Other,(explain in comments)

Defilted wrote: »

Meant to select No.

So No they are fine.

Same. NO.

Sharee · July 2018

No, its just fine as is

Back in the day, i played DAoC for roughly 4 years. Highest i got was PvP rank 3 - out of 10. TESO's progression is way too fast, if you ask me.

Seri · July 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

Seri wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I look at the difference between my AP and a Grand Overlord's. I've got a long way to go.

I look at the difference between my PVP skill/experience and that of the Grand Overlords I know personally. I've got a long way to go.

Sounds about right to me.

The majority of GOs are just 24/7 players running in a ball group rolling over PUGs. Has nothing to do with knowledge of the game or "skill". For an average player, spending a few hours a week in Cyrodiil ( like 5-10 and that's probably already on the higher end ), GO is still basically unachievable, no matter how skilled he is.

If someone manages to play PVP all the way to 64 million AP and doesn't have some sort of skill at PVP (even if that's just being really good at zerg-surfing and being there to leech ticks), I'd be impressed.

Its hard to do that much of something, and not learn anything.

But as I said, when I look at the skill and experience of the Grand Overlords I know personally, I know I've got a long way to go. And yeah, some of that is just the sheer hours they've put into PVP.

Skill takes practice. Practice takes hours. There's no way around that.

If you'd said that prior to last year's Midyear Mayhem, I'd have agreed with you - to the point that even Tribune or Brigadier you'd assume would have some idea on how to fight, both 1v1 open world or at keeps. Since then I've seen AR30+ players that I don't know how they got there. I still remember the time a Praetorian rank sorc tried to engage me (at the time, Prefect) off a horse, and then ran away as I dismounted leaving me wondering 'wtf'?

I mean, I'll be honest, my highest ranked character is a Palatine. Its my Group Healer, that's built for healing. If someone fights me in a 1v1 open world and they have any clue what they are doing, they are going to walk away going "Man, how TF did you get that rank, you suck as a PVPer!"

How I got that rank was being really good at being a healer in an organized raid, capturing lots of objectives, and playing that way for over a year. Even when I'm not with my organized raid, my strengths lie in reading the map to know where fights are, healing groups, and capturing/defending objectives. No one will ever write home about my 1v1 abilities, even though I'm loads better than when I first started to PVP.

My rank of Palatine doesn't represent anything about my 1v1 skill. What is does tell you is that I'm reasonably good at making AP and that I've been playing for a while. I'm no duelist, but I'm pretty good at healing and making AP through healing groups while capturing/defending objectives, which happily is exactly what I'm built for and what I like doing.

If I ever make it to Grand Overlord, I guess I'll be one of those who people look at and wonder how I got there when they kill me in the field. My answer will still be "I'm a healer. I healed my way to this rank."

I understand and accept that - obviously if you're geared towards being in a group and get caught 1v1, you're not going to do well (I've also found myself in those same situations). That said, if you're running around on your healer out of group, I also wouldn't expect you to lob a few attacks at someone riding past on their mount

Odovacar · July 2018

No, its just fine as is

As long as we are having fun I think AP is just the cherry on top, for me that is. My rank only reflects my time in Cyrodill. I think I am a much better PvE'er but I truly love PvP so much. The strategy, team work, and sense of accomplishment in small doses really makes it fun.

I think dedicated players with 4+ years of PvP under their belt would say NO, and I would have to strongly agree with them. Everything in this game is earned or studied to accomplish and acquire what we seek (not including backpack players, you don't count, LOL). Nothing is easy (or too easy) and that's why ESO is such a tremendous game, just in my opinion.

Karivaa · July 2018

No, its just fine as is

p00tx wrote: »

You know, I have immense respect for those in the PvE community who spend countless hours honing the skills and their build and learning the intricacies of each and every trial and dungeon. I know how difficult that is and I know how much work that takes to be good at it. I would never dream of demeaning those achievements and I would NEVER ask to make those dungeons easy enough for someone like me to breeze through.

It really bothers me on a lot of levels to hear the PvE community devalue and demean the work and resultant skill put forth by the majority of us in the PvP community. There is a LOT that goes into it, and no one walks into Cyrodil instantly "good". It takes practice to read a map and learn how to anticipate movement. It takes skill to learn how to gauge a battle and whether or not it's worth sticking around rather than dipping out to go do something else that might strategically cut the offensive group off and help turn the tide of battle. It takes hours of playing to gain that instinctual muscle memory that helps you to respond instantly to a perceived threat. Our builds take hours and hours to carefully craft to be able to stay alive while 10-60 people are all beating the crap out of us, while still doing damage and maintaining fluid, fast movement.

It is not easy to be good at PvP, and cheaters/exploiters notwithstanding (we hate those trashcans as much as you guys), it is not easy to rank to GO.

Isn’t this the truth? When the game was first released, it was tough to earn AP. We worked our butts off for it. I have a 5 Star I earned before double ap events. I earned this rank by not doing trials or many dungeons. I don’t complain they are too difficult, I know they are and respect pve players. I have worked and worked and worked on my character. I also work. I made choices.

It is irritating to me when the pve community wants to devalue my rank and the work I have done so they can get achievements. Do you know how many 5 stars there are now? Way too many. Too many players who have no clue what they are doing.

I have also played the game for over 24 hours straight. End game achievements should be tough!