Templar PTS changes

Joy_Division · July 2018

T3hasiangod wrote: »

I'm...befuddled I suppose? Like why do Precursor tests? What was the point of the test? To show burst changes for PvP? To show PvE changes?

For the burst potential, sure, Precursor is fine. But if your idea is to showcase PvE changes, then as others have mentioned, do 6mil dummy tests to showcase sustain changes and DPS changes.

Right now, I can't take those tests seriously because they're 11 seconds long. Unless your point is to showcase the changes in burst potential, then there's nothing that your tests can prove or disprove since the disparity between individual parses that short will be enormous.

Next time you log in to the game, set up two six million target dummies next to each other and try to do a DPS test and see what happens.

Not everything that players face in the game are bosses with 6 million health. As I posted right under the precursor parses: "If I'm in a Battleground where I got multiple people Sloading me, Zaaning me, defiling me, etc., I would much rather have what's on Live because the PTS version' does not do enough damage to justify slotting.

If you have any suggestions what you think is a quick and better representation of what roughly is the damage difference between PTS and Live against two 25Kish or 200Kish health non bosses without using an ultimate in a controlled environment when nobody on friends list is on the PTS, I'm all ears.

Joy_Division · July 2018

Update:

Let me save you some time. If you believe using two drawn out 6 million dummy parses would make the test more valid and representative than the Precusor tests, go onto the PTS and try it yourself and see what happens. Unless they die at the same time, one will re-spawn and completely mess up the parse. Also, all the game's encounters are not bosses with 6 million health. If I am in cyrodiil, on the 3rd wave of stage 5 in vMA, grinding Skyreach, etc., I want to roughly know what is my non-ultimate AOE capabilities are. The target dummies are a rough guide, not Gospel,

iceman784 · July 2018

If it's pvp why do you use siroria? I thought you want mobility when fighting people, or are you just standing in their aoes? If it's aoe fight, why only 2 target dummies? There are at least 5 important targets in every significant trash fight in pve

Doctordarkspawn · July 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

Hopefully someone as ZoS will see how my thread has been derailed by bickering between templars over these changes as plain-as-day evidence that said changes are not making Templars excited to play the next update.

That'd require them to think there's a possibility they could ever bne wrong, and they refuse that.

Joy_Division · July 2018

iceman784 wrote: »

If it's pvp why do you use siroria? I thought you want mobility when fighting people, or are you just standing in their aoes? If it's aoe fight, why only 2 target dummies? There are at least 5 important targets in every significant trash fight in pve

Because it could be the 2rd wave of vMA's 5th stage where just an archer and a mage spawn next to each other on an ice flow.

It's just meant to be a rough approximation to show what I think anyone can figure out without using any target dummies: the 40% reduction in damage to Solar barrage is going to result in a DPS loss in fight with multiple targets.

Minno · July 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

iceman784 wrote: »

If it's pvp why do you use siroria? I thought you want mobility when fighting people, or are you just standing in their aoes? If it's aoe fight, why only 2 target dummies? There are at least 5 important targets in every significant trash fight in pve

Because it could be the 2rd wave of vMA's 5th stage where just an archer and a mage spawn next to each other on an ice flow.

It's just meant to be a rough approximation to show what I think anyone can figure out without using any target dummies: the 40% reduction in damage to Solar barrage is going to result in a DPS loss in fight with multiple targets.

Catching up on these threads after coming back from my honeymoon!

Never understood why this got a 40% dmg reduction to compensate for the cast time removal. It's not like you can't block the damn pulse which is a significant counter which gives all classes 50% dmg reduction just for pressing the right mouse button.

Joy_Division · July 2018

Congratulations!

NoFlash · July 2018

more reason for me to give up my main and play fortnite instead. I'd like to see better damage and sustain passives.

Feanor · July 2018

making Templars excited to play the next update.

@Joy_Division

Obviously my Templar experience can’t compare in the slightest to yours - but I don’t even remember the last update that made Templars exciting to play...

tamrielwinner · July 2018

beam is just not as good as light attack+anything. it has very high cost and investment, it's clunky, it is only useful within a particular health range, and the only real benefit is that it cannot be dodged. as an execute, it seems there's a slight delay to the damage because of the animation. i might be mistaken, but that's really bad to have on an execute ability.

in pvp, you might get 2 useful ticks of damage to a target with beam on average before there's a burst heal or LOS breakage from tree/rock cover. if he heals up, the rest of the damage from the channel is of no use and occupies time from using other abilities. because of this, slotting an ability with such a limited value and poor effectiveness is actually a loss.

i agree that they should look at the rune focus changes again. i think i'd prefer the current channeled focus over the PTS version because of the better magicka return benefits.

Drdeath20 · July 2018

Bump

casparian · July 2018

tamrielwinner wrote: »

in pvp, you might get 2 useful ticks of damage to a target with beam on average before there's a burst heal or LOS breakage from tree/rock cover

I can't remember the last time someone tried to LOS my Jesus beam. It's just not enough of a threat.

UppGRAYxDD · July 2018

@Joy_Division , how about selling a change to radiant oppression to ZoS if they'll listen, like instead of "holy fire" dmg it does just fire damage? This would add not only a needed pvp/pve buff to the ability and Magplar PvE dps, but also give magplars another option for flame damage besides sunfire...

Also, I fully support the movement to restore blinding light to templars again. Our house needs a better foundation...
Thanks again for the hard work!

GallantGuardian · July 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

All tests were done on the same character with same gear on PTS and Live. These are not perfect tests because DPS-wise, I am the wrong race (Nord), I have the wrong CP distribution (I PvP), I use Luminous rather than Blazing Shards (I heal), and use the Radiant Glory morph (because my magicka pool is perpetually empty since Morrowind and thus would have hardly any bonus damage). But everything is relative so I think my points still stand.

"ZOS_GinaBruno wrote:

Radiant Destruction: Increased the maximum bonus execute damage dealt by this ability and its morph to 400% from 330%.

This sounds like a lot, but I don't think it's enough. The problem is the base damage was nerfed by too much in the past (21% IIRC) and is not subject to diminishing returns as it occurs *before* and multipliers and such (i.e. it's a 21% reduction of a large amount). This PTS version is bonus damage and thus is a % on top of other %s, which I think are subject to diminishing returns).

In any event, I don't think I will use it because:

This is best case scenario: under 5% health (and thus max damage) and the increase we are seeing is still a lot smaller than the light attack(s) Templars lose when using a channeled ability.

A useable and efficient Radiant Destruction will always be a problem because the damage has to be *really* high since 1) it's an execute, 2) it's a channel and thus also include the damage from missed light attacks 3) PvP players will always look at the absolute worst case scenario (the last damage tick when they have 5% health) and then come onto the forums and whine & complain while they misrepresent the ability and claim it's best-case scenario is always the case. In general, I find the cries for "separate PvE and PvP" oversimplified and wrong - the game was at it's absolute best in 1.5 when PvE and PvP worked great together and nobody uttered such a thing - but in order for this ability to be any good in PvE it has to do so much damage that it's going to induce a lot of complaining in PvP. My suggestion would be thus either:
Remove the ability altogether and give Templars back Blinding Flashes (Templars currently DPS without this skill right now so they don't need it)

Make this the second ability in the game to have a special PvE component (Nightblade Ambush is the other) that would amp the damage. Once this is done the base version STILL needs a damage boost because it is not efficient in PvE or PvP

Make a concerted effort to educate the PVP community that mathematically it is necessary for Radiant Destruction ticks to be high because Templars cannot weave in Light attacks with that execute that Sorcerers, Nightblades, and Two-Handed users can.

What I would not do is:
Lower the range (PvPers favorite suggestion). Do you promise not to post misleading screenshots of 10K radiant destruct ticks when I beam you at 15 meters? What's that, yes? I don't believe you at all.

Make the beam dodgeable (Stam NBs favorite suggestion). Umm, no. Been there, done that before Thieves' Guild patch and the spell sucked so bad many Templars stopped using it in PvP.

Make the spell traditional instant cast. Homogenization. No thank you.

"ZOS_GinaBruno wrote:

Solar Flare
Dark Flare (morph): Decreased the duration of the Major Defile debuff to 4 seconds from 6 seconds.
Solar Barrage (morph): Removed the cast time from this ability, and decreased the damage done by approximately 40%.

I do not like Dark Flare because it does not do enough damage (find me a good DPS parse that uses it) and no longer empowers itself (which means it does even less damage), so that morph is irrelevant to me.

I do like that ZOS has listen to the community feedback removing the Solar Barrage cast time, but after my testing, I have to conclude that 40% nerf is way more than the 1 Global coodown that templars are gaining.

I have run about 15 DPS parses on Live and PTS and they are roughly the same (the PTS averaged like 400 or so higher). I think this is how ZOS arrived at the 40% number, they wanted to make the Templar DPS equivalent, but with a smoother rotation. However, the DPS is the same *only* against a single target dummy. Please do not tell me it is the only DPS that matters because I PvP, I do battlegrounds, I run vMA, I like DSA, I do (and like) the Sanctum Ophedia trash pulls, the cleaves on bosses like the Twins, etc.

Here is what Templars are losing:

Live Barrage parses:

PTS Barrage parses:

That's 4K a tick on every target with a PvP spec with no raid buffs at all.

I set up 2 target dummies together, which makes the point more visibly. This is without using an ultimate

Live:

PTS:

Edit: Let me save you some time. If you believe using two 6 million dummy parses would make the test more valid and representative, go onto the PTS and try it yourself and see what happens. Unless they die at the same time, one will re-spawn and completely mess up the parse. Also, all the game's encounters are not bosses with 6 million health. If I am in cyrodiil, on the 3rd wave of stage 5 in vMA, grinding Skyreach, I want to roughly know what is my non-ultimate AOE capabilities are.

If I'm in a Battleground where I got multiple people Sloading me, Zaaning me, defiling me, etc., I would much rather have what's on Live because the PTS version' does not do enough damage to justify slotting. If I wanted the Empower so badly I'd still rather have what's on Live because 1) the skill is better and 2) getting off a cast time (especially from a spell which does not snare me) is not nearly as difficult as it's made out to be, especially now that ZoS has included anti-interrupt mechanics. Indeed when Radiant Destruction was good, I used this spell *all the time*, channeled or not.

The damage is bad. Here is a comparison between the Templar AoE options on the PTS:

And this is Luminous Shards, the lesser damaging morph. When the two components are added together, it comes out to 246,145 roughly the same AoE damage as Barrage. And this skill returns *both* resources to allies, which Barrage does nothing of the sort.
.
The Blockade will even be higher Vs a boss because it will be amped by Engulfing Flames.

All a Templar gets from Barrage is 51 empowers, which comes out to 129,183 additional *single* target damage, if I can maintain light attacking. which is fine, except Luminous Shards gives me 262,717 single target damage that I'll get even when doing mechanics and unable to light attack. And it still returns resources.

Point: If a skill is not used or not very popular, that is because players do not feel the skill is effective or efficient enough. To get us excited about potentially using them, a mixed bag of well it's sort of a buff if used like this, but a nerf if used like that is not the way to go. Would I rather have what's on the PTS Vs. a single target dummy? Yeah, because it is more convenient. Would I rather play the actual game with what's on the PTS? No, because the spell is worse in a lot of situations and for all its convenience isn't good enough.

"ZOS_GinaBruno wrote:

Rune Focus:
This ability and its morphs now apply Major Ward, Major Resolve, and all morph effects to you directly for 15 seconds.
Standing within the area of effect now increases the Major Ward and Major Resolve effects by 50%.
Increased the cost of this ability and Restoring Focus to 2700 Magicka from 1890.
Channeled Focus (morph): Increased the cost of this ability to 1891 Magicka from 1080.
The new design of Rune Focus more closely matches the fast action combat, while still preserving the original feel of an area of protection.

Another mixed "sometimes it's a buff and sometimes it's a nerf" situation. Ugh. So, some templars are going to like it and some are going to hate it. Can't we just come up with changes in which everyone will be excited for the upcoming patch?

I think the Restoring Focus change is OK, I guess. Players who go for that morph aren't in it for the magic regen in the first place so the extra cost is worth the trade off for the guaranteed 15 seconds of effect. Full disclaimer here, I don;t use this morph, I'm just going by what some people have told me. It should be noted that the spell is potentially noticeably worse on the PTS because you don't get the 8 seconds of after effect when leaving the Rune and it's quite a bit more expensive. That would leave a bad taste in my mouth because even I'm paying a real price for that convenience. That's not a buff in my book; that's quid-pro-quo.

The problem comes with the Channeled Focus morph, the one which players use for magicka sustain. By nearly doubling the cost and cutting short the potential duration, the changes are counterproductive and defeat the purpose of taking this morph in the first place. Here is a chart of the difference between what's on Live and PTS:

You are only *little* better off in the absolute worst case Live scenario and potentially a lot worse.

No thanks. Even for me and I spend the most of my time PvPing (I also PvE and the change is a lot worse in 99% of those situations). The whole point I use this morph is because templars have terrible regen and no, sorry, a net return of 2000 regen over 18 seconds, which is about the same I'll get from a single regen glyph, defeats the whole purpose of using this ability in the first place. You may never go back into the Rune, but I do sometimes and I'd rather be rewarded for being a conscientious player by getting 5000 regen over 25 seconds.

As for the extra resistance bonuses, it comes out to 4%. It's a nice attempt, but that is hardly worth the effort to stay in the Rune.

What I would do:
Ideally untie templars only source of magicka sustain from an active skill that does not do much of anything and look back at how The Restoring Spirit passive worked in Beta. That way Templars have the resource management that "more closely matches the fast action combat" and thus frees them to take the defensive morph they actually would rather have.

For Restoring Focus, remove the cost increase. Why is the cost being increased anyway? What's on the PTS is not mechanically superior to what's on Live (and it's potentially worse) in anyway except an extra 4% mitigation, if you happen to stay in the Rune, which the changes acknowledge we probably won't.

For Channeled Focus, removing the cost increase is not enough: you'd only get 2800 regen over 18 seconds (a little more than a regen glyph) and missing out on the potentially 5000 over 25 seconds. If this particular morph is somehow going to be our only source of magicka sustain, it's actually got to accomplish that function. The best case scenario on Live still wasn't as good as what a Nightblade has so, yep, even getting rid of the cost reduction is still going to mean this is a pain point for templars. Which is why I recommend unnerfing Restoring Spirit because the "your magicka sustain is attached to the hip of channeled focus" idea is full of potential pitfalls.

As a temporary measure, I would recommend removing the cost increase, making the rune last 8 seconds, and putting back the "+8 seconds after you leave" condition. What this will in effect do is put us right back to Live, with the guarantee that a Templar will get 15 seconds, which I think is 1000% fair and all templars were asking for in the first place,

Couple things.. first how did restoring spirit work on beta?

Second I read you asking for tune to work like it did the first few months a of the game ... elaborate on that for me please

Third I completely agree to bring blinding flashes back there is no reason not to have it...

My idea how rune should work and restoring spirit

So I dunno if this is how restoring spirit worked before but I think it should just restore our stam and and mag while also reducing our ultimate cost

Then I think repentance needs to be changed to a stam steal.

Lastly rune... channel focus should give us major mending and the restoring focus should work like live. But both be turned into a mobile ability let the rune be something we spawn like a totem (not an actual totem)

Minno · July 2018

GallantGuardian wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

All tests were done on the same character with same gear on PTS and Live. These are not perfect tests because DPS-wise, I am the wrong race (Nord), I have the wrong CP distribution (I PvP), I use Luminous rather than Blazing Shards (I heal), and use the Radiant Glory morph (because my magicka pool is perpetually empty since Morrowind and thus would have hardly any bonus damage). But everything is relative so I think my points still stand.

"ZOS_GinaBruno wrote:

Radiant Destruction: Increased the maximum bonus execute damage dealt by this ability and its morph to 400% from 330%.

This sounds like a lot, but I don't think it's enough. The problem is the base damage was nerfed by too much in the past (21% IIRC) and is not subject to diminishing returns as it occurs *before* and multipliers and such (i.e. it's a 21% reduction of a large amount). This PTS version is bonus damage and thus is a % on top of other %s, which I think are subject to diminishing returns).

In any event, I don't think I will use it because:

This is best case scenario: under 5% health (and thus max damage) and the increase we are seeing is still a lot smaller than the light attack(s) Templars lose when using a channeled ability.

A useable and efficient Radiant Destruction will always be a problem because the damage has to be *really* high since 1) it's an execute, 2) it's a channel and thus also include the damage from missed light attacks 3) PvP players will always look at the absolute worst case scenario (the last damage tick when they have 5% health) and then come onto the forums and whine & complain while they misrepresent the ability and claim it's best-case scenario is always the case. In general, I find the cries for "separate PvE and PvP" oversimplified and wrong - the game was at it's absolute best in 1.5 when PvE and PvP worked great together and nobody uttered such a thing - but in order for this ability to be any good in PvE it has to do so much damage that it's going to induce a lot of complaining in PvP. My suggestion would be thus either:
Remove the ability altogether and give Templars back Blinding Flashes (Templars currently DPS without this skill right now so they don't need it)

Make this the second ability in the game to have a special PvE component (Nightblade Ambush is the other) that would amp the damage. Once this is done the base version STILL needs a damage boost because it is not efficient in PvE or PvP

Make a concerted effort to educate the PVP community that mathematically it is necessary for Radiant Destruction ticks to be high because Templars cannot weave in Light attacks with that execute that Sorcerers, Nightblades, and Two-Handed users can.

What I would not do is:
Lower the range (PvPers favorite suggestion). Do you promise not to post misleading screenshots of 10K radiant destruct ticks when I beam you at 15 meters? What's that, yes? I don't believe you at all.

Make the beam dodgeable (Stam NBs favorite suggestion). Umm, no. Been there, done that before Thieves' Guild patch and the spell sucked so bad many Templars stopped using it in PvP.

Make the spell traditional instant cast. Homogenization. No thank you.

"ZOS_GinaBruno wrote:

Solar Flare
Dark Flare (morph): Decreased the duration of the Major Defile debuff to 4 seconds from 6 seconds.
Solar Barrage (morph): Removed the cast time from this ability, and decreased the damage done by approximately 40%.

I do not like Dark Flare because it does not do enough damage (find me a good DPS parse that uses it) and no longer empowers itself (which means it does even less damage), so that morph is irrelevant to me.

I do like that ZOS has listen to the community feedback removing the Solar Barrage cast time, but after my testing, I have to conclude that 40% nerf is way more than the 1 Global coodown that templars are gaining.

I have run about 15 DPS parses on Live and PTS and they are roughly the same (the PTS averaged like 400 or so higher). I think this is how ZOS arrived at the 40% number, they wanted to make the Templar DPS equivalent, but with a smoother rotation. However, the DPS is the same *only* against a single target dummy. Please do not tell me it is the only DPS that matters because I PvP, I do battlegrounds, I run vMA, I like DSA, I do (and like) the Sanctum Ophedia trash pulls, the cleaves on bosses like the Twins, etc.

Here is what Templars are losing:

Live Barrage parses:

PTS Barrage parses:

That's 4K a tick on every target with a PvP spec with no raid buffs at all.

I set up 2 target dummies together, which makes the point more visibly. This is without using an ultimate

Live:

PTS:

Edit: Let me save you some time. If you believe using two 6 million dummy parses would make the test more valid and representative, go onto the PTS and try it yourself and see what happens. Unless they die at the same time, one will re-spawn and completely mess up the parse. Also, all the game's encounters are not bosses with 6 million health. If I am in cyrodiil, on the 3rd wave of stage 5 in vMA, grinding Skyreach, I want to roughly know what is my non-ultimate AOE capabilities are.

If I'm in a Battleground where I got multiple people Sloading me, Zaaning me, defiling me, etc., I would much rather have what's on Live because the PTS version' does not do enough damage to justify slotting. If I wanted the Empower so badly I'd still rather have what's on Live because 1) the skill is better and 2) getting off a cast time (especially from a spell which does not snare me) is not nearly as difficult as it's made out to be, especially now that ZoS has included anti-interrupt mechanics. Indeed when Radiant Destruction was good, I used this spell *all the time*, channeled or not.

The damage is bad. Here is a comparison between the Templar AoE options on the PTS:

And this is Luminous Shards, the lesser damaging morph. When the two components are added together, it comes out to 246,145 roughly the same AoE damage as Barrage. And this skill returns *both* resources to allies, which Barrage does nothing of the sort.
.
The Blockade will even be higher Vs a boss because it will be amped by Engulfing Flames.

All a Templar gets from Barrage is 51 empowers, which comes out to 129,183 additional *single* target damage, if I can maintain light attacking. which is fine, except Luminous Shards gives me 262,717 single target damage that I'll get even when doing mechanics and unable to light attack. And it still returns resources.

Point: If a skill is not used or not very popular, that is because players do not feel the skill is effective or efficient enough. To get us excited about potentially using them, a mixed bag of well it's sort of a buff if used like this, but a nerf if used like that is not the way to go. Would I rather have what's on the PTS Vs. a single target dummy? Yeah, because it is more convenient. Would I rather play the actual game with what's on the PTS? No, because the spell is worse in a lot of situations and for all its convenience isn't good enough.

"ZOS_GinaBruno wrote:

Rune Focus:
This ability and its morphs now apply Major Ward, Major Resolve, and all morph effects to you directly for 15 seconds.
Standing within the area of effect now increases the Major Ward and Major Resolve effects by 50%.
Increased the cost of this ability and Restoring Focus to 2700 Magicka from 1890.
Channeled Focus (morph): Increased the cost of this ability to 1891 Magicka from 1080.
The new design of Rune Focus more closely matches the fast action combat, while still preserving the original feel of an area of protection.

Another mixed "sometimes it's a buff and sometimes it's a nerf" situation. Ugh. So, some templars are going to like it and some are going to hate it. Can't we just come up with changes in which everyone will be excited for the upcoming patch?

I think the Restoring Focus change is OK, I guess. Players who go for that morph aren't in it for the magic regen in the first place so the extra cost is worth the trade off for the guaranteed 15 seconds of effect. Full disclaimer here, I don;t use this morph, I'm just going by what some people have told me. It should be noted that the spell is potentially noticeably worse on the PTS because you don't get the 8 seconds of after effect when leaving the Rune and it's quite a bit more expensive. That would leave a bad taste in my mouth because even I'm paying a real price for that convenience. That's not a buff in my book; that's quid-pro-quo.

The problem comes with the Channeled Focus morph, the one which players use for magicka sustain. By nearly doubling the cost and cutting short the potential duration, the changes are counterproductive and defeat the purpose of taking this morph in the first place. Here is a chart of the difference between what's on Live and PTS:

You are only *little* better off in the absolute worst case Live scenario and potentially a lot worse.

No thanks. Even for me and I spend the most of my time PvPing (I also PvE and the change is a lot worse in 99% of those situations). The whole point I use this morph is because templars have terrible regen and no, sorry, a net return of 2000 regen over 18 seconds, which is about the same I'll get from a single regen glyph, defeats the whole purpose of using this ability in the first place. You may never go back into the Rune, but I do sometimes and I'd rather be rewarded for being a conscientious player by getting 5000 regen over 25 seconds.

As for the extra resistance bonuses, it comes out to 4%. It's a nice attempt, but that is hardly worth the effort to stay in the Rune.

What I would do:
Ideally untie templars only source of magicka sustain from an active skill that does not do much of anything and look back at how The Restoring Spirit passive worked in Beta. That way Templars have the resource management that "more closely matches the fast action combat" and thus frees them to take the defensive morph they actually would rather have.

For Restoring Focus, remove the cost increase. Why is the cost being increased anyway? What's on the PTS is not mechanically superior to what's on Live (and it's potentially worse) in anyway except an extra 4% mitigation, if you happen to stay in the Rune, which the changes acknowledge we probably won't.

For Channeled Focus, removing the cost increase is not enough: you'd only get 2800 regen over 18 seconds (a little more than a regen glyph) and missing out on the potentially 5000 over 25 seconds. If this particular morph is somehow going to be our only source of magicka sustain, it's actually got to accomplish that function. The best case scenario on Live still wasn't as good as what a Nightblade has so, yep, even getting rid of the cost reduction is still going to mean this is a pain point for templars. Which is why I recommend unnerfing Restoring Spirit because the "your magicka sustain is attached to the hip of channeled focus" idea is full of potential pitfalls.

As a temporary measure, I would recommend removing the cost increase, making the rune last 8 seconds, and putting back the "+8 seconds after you leave" condition. What this will in effect do is put us right back to Live, with the guarantee that a Templar will get 15 seconds, which I think is 1000% fair and all templars were asking for in the first place,

Couple things.. first how did restoring spirit work on beta?

Second I read you asking for tune to work like it did the first few months a of the game ... elaborate on that for me please

Third I completely agree to bring blinding flashes back there is no reason not to have it...

My idea how rune should work and restoring spirit

So I dunno if this is how restoring spirit worked before but I think it should just restore our stam and and mag while also reducing our ultimate cost

Then I think repentance needs to be changed to a stam steal.

Lastly rune... channel focus should give us major mending and the restoring focus should work like live. But both be turned into a mobile ability let the rune be something we spawn like a totem (not an actual totem)

Restoring sprit used to grant x% mag back on each ability cast. Then they removed it before it hit live.

I'll try to get the other abilities for you (the old information is harder to find now that websites updated).

Minno · July 2018

Found the abilities in a text format:

https://www.gaiscioch.com/tavern/eso_guides/post_85635.html

Templar Skills and their Morphs

Aedric Spear line (Offensive Skill Line)

Active Skills:

Puncturing Strikes: Four consecutive attacks for X Magic Damage to enemies in front of you. Closest target takes 100% additional damage and is knocked back on the last hit. Cast time: Channel 1.1s, Target: 8m area Cost: 46 Magicka
Biting Jabs--Four consecutive attacks for 220 Magic Damage to enemies in front of you. Closest target takes 100% additional damage and is knocked back on the last hit. Increases Critical Hit chance up to 70% vs. enemies with low Health.
New Effect: Critical hit chance increased vs low health enemies Cast: Instant, Target: Area (8m), Duration 1.1s, Cost: 46 Magicka
Puncturing Sweeps--Four consecutive attacks for 5 Magic Damage to enemies in front of you. Closest target takes 110% additional damage and is knocked back on the last hit. Heals you for of damage done.New Effect: Heals you based on damage done. Cast: Instant, Target: Area (8m), Duration 1.1s, Cost: 46 Magicka
Piercing Javelin:Hurls a spear causing X Magic Damage and knocking back target 5 meters. Cast: Instant, Target: Enemy, range 20m, Cost: 53 Magicka
Aurora Javelin-- Hurls a spear causing 16 Magic Damage and knocking back target 5 meters. Deals additional damage, up to 30%, when the player is a greater distance from the target.
New Effect: Damage increased based on distance from target.
Binding Javelin-- Hurls a spear causing 13 Magic Damage and knocking back target 5 meters for 3 seconds.
New Effect: Increased knockdown duration.
Focused Charge:Charge to target, interrupting casts and stuns them for 3 seconds. Deals X Magic Damage. Cast: instant, Target: Enemy, Range 3.5-22m Cost: 46 Magicka
Explosive Charge: Charge to target, interrupting casts and stuns them for 3 seconds. Deals 20 Magic Damage to all nearby enemies. New Effect:Deals damage to all enemies at the point of impact. Cast: instant
Toppling Charge: Charge to target and stun for 1.5 seconds. Casting targets are set off balance for 5 seconds. Deals 20 Magic Damage.New Effect:Enemy will be stunned on impact. Cast: instant
Spear Shards: Deals X Magic Damage to enemies within target area. Disorients 1 target for 6 seconds. Ally may pick up spear, granting them 25% Stamina and an additional X Stamina over 10 seconds. Cast: instant Target: Ground area (6m), Range 25m, duration 6s, Cost: 42 Magicka
Blazing Spear: Deals 14 Magic Damage to enemies within target area. Stuns 1 target for 2 seconds. Ally may pick up spear, granting them 25% Stamina and an additional 0 Stamina over 10 seconds. Enemies near the spear take 0 Magic Damage every 1 second.
New Effect: Spear ignites ground on impact. Stuns instead of disorienting enemy. Cast: instant
Luminous Shards: Deals 14 Magic Damage to enemies within target area. Disorients 1 target for 6 seconds. Ally may pick up spear, granting them 25% Stamina and an additional 0 Stamina and Magicka over 10 seconds.New Effect:Restores more stamina and magicka over time. Cast: Instant
Sun Shield:Creates damage shield for 27% Max Health, that lasts 6 seconds. Deals X Magic Damage to nearby enemies on activation. Each successful hit increases shield strength by 4%. Cast: instant Target: Area (5m) Duration: 6s, Cost: 42 Magicka
Blazing Shield: Creates damage shield for 30% Max Health that lasts 6 seconds. Each nearby target increases shield strength by 4%. Returns 50% of damage taken to nearby enemies when effect ends. New Effect: Deals damage when shield ends based on damage absorbed. Cast: Instant
Radiant Ward: Creates damage shield for 30% Max Health that lasts 6 seconds. Deals 9 Magic Damage to nearby enemies radius on activation. Each successful hit increases shield strength by 4%. New Effect: Deals additional damage on activation. Cast: Instant
Ultimate: :Deals X Magic Damage to all nearby enemies. Cast: Instant. Target: Area (5m), Cost: 75 Ultimate
Crescent Sweep: Deals 25 Magic Damage to all nearby enemies. Enemies in your frontal arc take an additional 33%. New Effect: Deals additional damage to enemies in front of you. Cast: Instant, Target: Area (5m), Cost: 75 Ultimate
Empowering Sweep: Deals 25 Magic Damage to all nearby enemies. Take 15% less damage for 8 seconds. Take an additional 4% less damage for each enemy hit. New Effect: Take reduced damage for each enemy hit. Cast: Instant, Target: Area (5m), Cost: 75 Ultimate

Passive abilities

Piercing Spear: While using an Aedric Spear ability, increases Critical Strike chance by 5%, and increases damage vs. Blocking targets by 5%.
Spear Wall: With an Aedric Spear ability slotted, increases block amount vs. melee attacks by 7%
Burning Light: When using an Aedric Spear ability, 25% chance on hit to deal X Magic damage.
Balanced Warrior: Increases weapon damage by 2% and Spell Resistance by X.

Dawn’s Wrath (Offensive Skill Line)

Active Abilities

Sun Fire: Deals X Flame Damage and an additional Y Flame Damage over 4.5 seconds. Snares 40% for 4.5 seconds. Cast: instant, Target: enemy, Range: 28m Cost: 35 Magicka
Reflective Light: Deals 16 Fire Damage and an additional 36 Fire Damage over 5 seconds to target. Snares target 40% for 5 seconds. Also snares 2 nearby enemies for 2.5 seconds dealing 16 Fire Damage and an additional 36 Fire Damage over 5.25 seconds. New effect: Affects multiple targets. Cast: Instant, Target: ground Range: 28m, Radius: 4.5m, Cost: 35 Magicka
Vampire’s Bane: Deals 16 Fire Damage and an additional 48 Fire Damage over 7 seconds to target. Snares target 40% for 7 seconds. New Effect: Deals increased damage over time. Cast: Instant Target: Enemy Range: 28m Cost: 35 Magicka
Solar Flare: Deals X Magic Damage to target. Next attack gains Y Weapon Power and Y Spell Power against target and nearby enemies. Bonus does not apply to Solar Flare, Dark Flare or Solar Barrage attacks. Cast time: 1.5s, Target: Enemy, Range 28m Cost: 42 Magicka
Dark Flare: Deals 32 Magic Damage to target. Next attack gains 50 Weapon Power and 50 Spell Power against target and nearby enemies. Affected enemies receive -40% healing reduction for 6 seconds. Bonus does not apply to Solar Flare, Dark Flare or Solar Barrage attacks. New Effect:Affected enemies receive less healing. Cast time 1.3s, Target: Enemy, Range: 28m, Cost: 42 Magicka
Solar Barrage: Deals 13 Magic Damage to nearby enemies. Next attack against affected enemies gains 50 Weapon Damage and 50 Spell Damage. This bonus does not apply to Solar Flare, Dark Flare, or Solar Barrage New Effect: No longer has cast time and deals damage to enemies near you. Cast: Instant, Target: Area, Radius: 8m, Cost: 42 Magicka
Backlash: Target enemy stores up damage taken for 6 seconds. When effect ends they receive an additional 33% of damage inflicted. Cast time: 1.5s. Target: Enemy, Range: 28m, Duration: 6s, Cost: 25 Magicka
Power of the Light: Target enemy stores up damage taken for 6 seconds. When effect ends they receive an additional 36% of damage inflicted. First five successful hits increase power by 2% per hit for 7 seconds. Maximum damage: 75. New Effect: Gain weapon power when attacking target enemy. Cast time: 1.5s, Target: Enemy, Range 28m, Duration 6s, Cost: 25 Magicka
Purifying Light: Target enemy stores up damage taken for 6 seconds. When effect ends they receive an additional 36% of damage inflicted and a pool of healing light appears for 6 seconds, healing allies for 7 every 2 seconds. Maximum damage: 75. New Effect:Heals allies in the area. Cast time: 1.5s, Target: Enemy, Range, 28m, Duration: 6s, Cost 25 Magicka
Eclipse: Target reflects negative single target spells back at themselves for 4s. Cast time: instant, Target: enemy, Range: 28m, Duration: 4s, Cost: 60 Magicka
Total Dark: Target reflects negative single target Spells back at themselves for 5 seconds. When effect ends, target's Spell Damage is reduced by -15 for 4.5 seconds. New Effect: Enemy deals less damage when effect ends. Cast time: instant, Target: Enemy, Range: 28m, Duration: 5s, Cost: 60 Magicka
Unstable Core: Target reflects negative single target Spells back at themselves for 5 seconds. Deals 11 Magic Damage to nearby enemies when effect ends. New Effect: Target deals damage to all nearby enemies when effect ends. Cast time: instant, Target: Enemy, Range: 28m, Duration: 5s, Cost: 60 Magicka
Blinding Light: Enemies go off-balance when they are blocking. Cast: Instant, Target: Area (5m), Duration: 3.5s, Cost: 53 Magicka
Blinding Flashes: Pulses every 2 seconds, enemies go off-balance when they are blocking for 6 seconds. New Effect: Applies to nearby enemies every X. Cast: Instant, Target: Area, Radius: 5m, Duration: 6s, Cost: 53 Magicka
Searing Light: Enemies go off-balance when they are blocking for 4 seconds. Affected targets take 11 Magic Damage. New Effect: Adds damage Cast: Instant, Target: Area (5m), Duration: 4s, Cost 53 Magicka

Ultimate: Nova: Enemies deal 40% less damage for 8 seconds, and take X Magic Damage every 1 second. An ally may activate the Supernova synergy, dealing damage and stunning all enemies in the area. Cast: Instant, Target: Ground, Range: 28m, Duration: 8s, Cost: 300 Ultimate
Solar Disturbance: Enemies deal 30% less damage for 8 seconds, and take 14 Magic Damage every 1 second. Enemies are also snared 60%. An ally may activate the Supernova synergy, dealing damage and stunning all enemies in the area. New Effect: Snares enemies standing in the area. Cast: Instant, Target: Enemy, Range: 28m, Duration: 8s, Cost: 300 Ultimate
Solar Prison: Enemies deal 30% less damage for 8 seconds, and take 14 Magic Damage every 1 second. An ally may activate the Gravity Crush synergy, dealing damage and stunning all enemies in the area. New Effect: Allies may activate a more powerful synergy ability. Cast time: Instant, Target: Enemy, Range: 28m, Duration: 8s Cost: 300 Ultimate
Passive Abilities:

Enduring Rays: When using a Dawn’s Wrath ability, increases ability duration by 10%
Prism: While activating a Sun ability, bestows X additional Ultimate upon activation
Illuminate: While using a Dawn’s Wrath ability, Spell Resistance is increased by X if the attacker is affected.
Restoring Spirit: Gain 2% Magicka when activating an ability

Restoring Light (Healing skill line)

Active Skills

Rushed Ceremony: Heals nearby wounded ally for 33. Cast: Instant, Target: Area, Radius 28m, Cost: 60 Magicka
Breath of Life: Heals nearby wounded ally for 36. Also heals 2 additional wounded allies for 16. New Effect: Heals up to 3 targets. Cast time: Instant, Target: Area, Radius 28m, Duration 0.001s, Cost: 60 Magicka
Honor the Dead: Heals nearby wounded ally for 36. Restores 15% of Spell Cost every 2 seconds for 8 seconds when healing a target below 50% Health. New Effect: Restores magicka when healing low health allies. Cast: Instant, Target: Area, Radius: 28m, Duration: 0.001s, Cost: 60 Magicka
Healing Ritual: Heals nearby allies for X. Heal self for an additional 30%. Cast: 2s, Target: Area (10m), Cost: 49 Magicka.
Lingering Ritual: Heals nearby allies for 3. Heals self for an additional 30%. After 8.001 seconds affected targets are healed for an additional X. New Effect: Additional healing after Y. Cast: 2s, Target: Area, Radius: 10m, Cost: 49 Magicka
Ritual of Rebirth: Heals nearby allies for 3. Heals self for an additional 30%. New Effect: Reduced cast time. Cast: 1.7s, Target: Area, Radius: 10m, Cost: 49 Magicka.
Restoring Aura: When slotted: Increase stamina and health regeneration by 15%
When activated: Increase the health and stamina regeneration of nearby allies by an additional 80% for 6 seconds. Cast: Instant, Target: Area, Radius: 12m, Duration: 6s, Cost: 46 Magicka
Radiant Aura: When slotted: Increase stamina and health regeneration by 15%
When activated: Increase the health and stamina regeneration of nearby allies by an additional 80% for 9 seconds New Effect: Has increased radius. Cast: Instant Target: Area, Radius: 18m, Duration: 9s, Cost: 46 Magicka
Repentance: When slotted: Increase stamina and health regeneration by 15%.
When activated: Restores 0 stamina and 0 health to nearby allies per nearby corpse. Each corpse can only be used once in this way. New Effect: Has no cost. Consume essence of corpses to restore health and stamina. Cast: Instant, Target: Self
Cleansing Ritual: Instantly removes a negative effect from self. Over 12 seconds, heals nearby allies for 0 every 2 seconds. Allies in range may activate Purify, removing all negative effects and healing for 0. Cast: Instant, Target: Area, Radius: 12m, Duration 0.7s, Cost: 49 Magicka
Extended Ritual: Instantly removes a negative effect from self. Over 16 seconds, heals nearby allies for 3 every 2 seconds. Allies in range may activate Purify, removing all negative effects and healing for 0. New Effect: Has increased duration. Cast: Instant, Target: Area, Radius: 12m, Duration 0.7s, Cost: 49 Magicka
Purifying Ritual: Instantly removes 2 negative effects from self. Over 12 seconds, heals nearby allies for 3 every 2 seconds. Allies in range may activate Purify, removing all negative effects and healing for 16. New Effect: Reduced cost, removes additional effects. Cast: Instant, Target: Area, Radius: 12m, Duration: 0.7s, Cost 42 Magicka
Rune Focus: Creates an area of self protection for 12 s, increasing Armor and Spell Resistance by 25. Cast: Instant, Target: Self, Duration: 12s, Cost: 25 Magicka
Channeled Focus: Creates an area of self protection for 15 seconds, increasing Armor and Spell Resistance by 25 and recovering 100 Magicka every 0.5 seconds. New Effect: Restore magicka while in the focus. Cast: Instant, Target: Self, Duration: 15s, Cost: 25 Magicka
Restoring Focus: Creates an area of self protection for 15 seconds, increasing Armor and Spell Resistance by 25 and bestowing 15% of additional healing. New Effect: Receive more healing while in focus. Cast: Instant, Target: Self, Duration 15s, Cost: 25 Magicka
Ultimate: Rite of Passage: Heals nearby allies for 13 every 0.5 seconds for 4 seconds. You cannot move while channeling this ability but gain immunity from all enemy control effects. Cast: Instant, Target: Area, Radius: 12m, Duration: 4s, Cost: 150 Ultimate
Practiced Incantation: Heals nearby allies for 16 every 0.5 seconds for 6 seconds. You cannot move while channeling this ability but gain immunity from all enemy control effects. New Effect: Increases channel duration. Cast: Instant, Target: Area, Radius: 12m, Duration: 6s, Cost: 150 Ultimate
Remembrance: Heals nearby allies for 16 every 0.5 seconds for 4 seconds. While active, allies take 20% less damage. You cannot move while channeling this ability but gain immunity from all enemy control effects. New Effect: Allies take less damage while ability is channeled. Cast: Instant, Target: Area, Radius: 12m, Duration: 4s, Cost: 150 Ultimate
Passive Abilitlies:

Mending: While using a Restoring Light ability, increases Critical Strike chance on allies by up to 15%. Critical Strike chance increases the more Health an ally is missing.
Focused Healing: While using a Restoring Light ability, increases healing power by 15% to allies standing in area of protection created by Rite of Passage (ultimate), Cleansing Ritual (skill 4), or Rune Focus (skill 5).
Light Weaver: While using a Restoring Light ability, increases duration of Restoring Aura (skill 3) 10%. Reduces cost of Healing Ritual (skill 2) 10%. Gains X Armor and Spell Resistance while channeling Rite of Passage (ultimate).
Master Ritualist: Increases Resurrection speed by 50%. Affected allies resurrect with 50% more Health. 50% chance to gain a soul gem upon successful resurrect

Neoauspex · July 2018

Minno wrote: »

Mending: While using a Restoring Light ability, increases Critical Strike chance on allies by up to 15%. Critical Strike chance increases the more Health an ally is missing.

So that's why Healing Ritual was a channeled ability

Minno · July 2018

Neoauspex wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Mending: While using a Restoring Light ability, increases Critical Strike chance on allies by up to 15%. Critical Strike chance increases the more Health an ally is missing.

So that's why Healing Ritual was a channeled ability

It was a channel because our main hot was a ground based spell. And with how strong miss chance was, we needed channels to have a sort of drawback.

Templar had some issues, but it was much more fun back at launch.

TheNightflame · July 2018

I wish we could have the original radiant aura back, there's zero reason to use the new one over ele drain unless you're not running a destro staff

Minno · July 2018

TheNightflame wrote: »

I wish we could have the original radiant aura back, there's zero reason to use the new one over ele drain unless you're not running a destro staff

It did give the same buffs as tripot buffs. Which in hindsight had use to run speed pots without missing out on those buffs.

But back then we didn't have nCP, so those buffs were easily rendered useless back when we suggested they change that spell.

Solariken · July 2018

Minno wrote: »

TheNightflame wrote: »

I wish we could have the original radiant aura back, there's zero reason to use the new one over ele drain unless you're not running a destro staff

It did give the same buffs as tripot buffs. Which in hindsight had use to run speed pots without missing out on those buffs.

But back then we didn't have nCP, so those buffs were easily rendered useless back when we suggested they change that spell.

I think he was referring to when Radiant Aura boosted all affected allies regen by 80%. Because yes, that was awesome.

Minno · July 2018

Solariken wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

TheNightflame wrote: »

I wish we could have the original radiant aura back, there's zero reason to use the new one over ele drain unless you're not running a destro staff

It did give the same buffs as tripot buffs. Which in hindsight had use to run speed pots without missing out on those buffs.

But back then we didn't have nCP, so those buffs were easily rendered useless back when we suggested they change that spell.

I think he was referring to when Radiant Aura boosted all affected allies regen by 80%. Because yes, that was awesome.

I forgot that was a thing too lol.

TheNightflame · July 2018

yes that^ but i'd accept another value percent unnamed buff as well

Minno · July 2018

wrobel confirmed monday rune will be 20 second duration and the cost increase introduced in PTS will be removed.

Though should wait for PTS notes to make sure but that's good news!

Neoauspex · July 2018

Minno wrote: »

wrobel confirmed monday rune will be 20 second duration and the cost increase introduced in PTS will be removed.

Though should wait for PTS notes to make sure but that's good news!

Yaaaay

Joy_Division · July 2018

Minno wrote: »

wrobel confirmed monday rune will be 20 second duration and the cost increase introduced in PTS will be removed.

Though should wait for PTS notes to make sure but that's good news!

I can live with that. PvE DPS might feel a squeeze. Devs indicated they are looking more into Templar DPS for future update.

Syiccal · July 2018

holy *** if that happens I will be over the moon

Nifty2g · July 2018

Can you guys just suggest to them and save their trouble with the useless beam buffs that their skills are flat out lacking in damage and rather than buffing their base damage, give them passive damage that can be amped up.
Truly if they kept it magic damage then give them magic damage passive someone, like warden has. Or make them fire damage. Making them fire damage would be perfect for templars and actually give them competitive dps.

cpuScientist · July 2018

@Joy_Division

G'day. I was just wondering, was repentance or any sort of Stam sustain talked about or looked at? Like maybe letting repentance Stam return affect every Templar in group through a passive. So they don't have to fight for it. Or some other sort of sustain for stamina?

Joy_Division · July 2018

In our first meeting, it was mentioned that just making the Templar Dawn's Wrath and Blazing/Fire sounding skills actual fire and I've long asked them to make the "Balanced Warrior" passive give more than just weapon damage.

@cpuScientist - that was brought up in the meeting and the devs mentioned they would try to get something for update 20. I will make it a point to remind them of the Repentance thing because I think it's terrible design.