Dear fake tanks who blame the healer

lagrue · July 2018

I checked back on this topic and I wanted you guys to know something. This didn't even happen in Vet. It happened in standard Imperial Prison where our tank couldn't survive the Warden's big flame burst thing because it does something like 17k damage. He was going from full health to dead in one shot and then blaming me for not healing enough. (Forget the fact the same guy stepped in the blue circles multiple times and died to fall damage.)

I won't claim to be the best healer.... but I've carried dozens of standard dungeons with my healer and ONE underleveled friend. If we can 2 man dungeons when he was level 25, I don't understand how a level 300 CP tank is gonna be harping on me for not being able to survive. He was also the only person dying... everybody else survived and we didn't fail any of the fights even when he was down. If you're CP300 and dying in regular old dungeons, I don't know what it could be but l2p issues.

I buff and heal everybody with a near 100% uptime on most abilities. It's annoying to get messages midfight when they sit dead on the ground through no fault of their own.

lagrue · July 2018

Cryptical wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Any capable tank doesn’t need a healer, same goes for competent dps who know how to stay out of the red and shield/ dodge/ sustain. Healers are only useful in Trials and occasionally PVP. Least desireable role in the game, and yeah, if anything goes wrong you’re top of the list for blame—reagardless of the derpery of your party.

Many people say this. But, the important word there is 'competent'. Do you know how many dps are competent at being in a group? VERY few.

So many dps are incompetent at functioning as part of a group, across so many games, that an entire meme is dedicated to their ineptitude:

And the ever-popular response

so much truth lol, I cringe seeing people stand in the damage spots... especially in the prison for example where there's a big blue circle on the ground that ejects you into the air - and they just stand in it

Unit117 · July 2018

I don’t understand why everyone is talking like there is one style of tanking. I play tank and my dk, nightblade and ice staff warden all have very different needs.

On the dk where you focus on stamina. Sure you can get away in dlc dungeons with 35k health because you have a nice big instant self heal To sustain health.

On the nightblade where you use more magicka. You have to balance your stats more but need a larger health pool because your heal is over time. If you are running only around 30k health. You will have to spam your heal and drain resources more than you would like on harder vet dlc dungeons like bloodroot.

Ice staff wardens need very large health pools and a good size magic pool with little stamina. If you aren’t sitting around 45+ health. You are in for a very bad time. The npcs and bosses in vet falkreath for example will eat you alive otherwise and even then it’s still very hard to not die. But you can do most of the other dungeons fine. The dlc enemies hit like trucks and your damage shield is non existent. You need that health to keep from getting one shotted since you aren’t blocking most of the time. (Ice staff and warden tanking need very serous buffs. By far worst self heals I have ever used in tanking and can get overwhelmed by raw damage quickly. )

Eso101rus · July 2018

100% agree that how much health you need on a tank is build type dependant. The problem is that fake tanks, healers and fake “dps” (ie freeloader dps) are making a mockery of dungeon finder. Recently I’ve seen a lot of dps with 1h and sheild turn up, and because they queue with a friend you can’t win vote to kick them. Another spill over from broken pvp, pvpers looking for dungeon kicks and don’t bother to change setup.

Eso101rus · July 2018

Ps I don’t mind fake healers as a good tank doesn’t need one, the extra dps is welcomed more, but a good healer in dungeons isn’t there to keep tank up but to buff dps further IMO

WarMasterCyp · July 2018

lagrue wrote: »

I'm sorry but when you're a "tank" and you wear paper mache armor and have 12k health, no amount of healing can save you, you're going to die 1 hit even regular dungeons to 50% of the attacks. It's not my fault, you built like crap. Those attacks that do 18k a hit? There's nothing I can do to mitigate that for you. I can give you Resolve buffs and it won't be enough. The problem isn't lack of heals - its your build.

YES! I was healer in previous dungeon and this tank was not even off tank, he was sorc and blamed me.. These people should be banned because its like trolling the entire group.

Its even worse when they are pre-made groups and you join in and they just troll you.

Pixel_Zealot · July 2018

Yeah, has this DK running with an inferno staff with light armour running as 'tank'. When I tried to give him advice, he just told me "stfu lol". We ran through the dungeon, with me pulling most of the aggro.

Luckily at the end of the dungeon, the dialogue continued and we chilled out and he realised I wasn't being toxic (which was what he was used to in other games, he was new to ESO and didn't know what to expect) and I was actually trying to help him.

In the end, he listened to my advice for his build and I sent him to go check out alcast.hq.com.

My point is, most of them have no idea what they're doing.

Tasear · July 2018

Yeah a good tank is like a prefect match for healer. It's a pity they become an endangered species?

I invite all Healers to Join Healer's discord: https://discord.gg/TfjSbu9 maybe we will discuss or protection plan good tanks along other matters.

AbysmalGhul · July 2018

The trick is, don't let them blame you ever!! Start the dungeon off by showing your dominance " Which one of you peasants need my healings?" or simply type " Peasants"

Every time someone dies from the red, one-shot, or just you not paying attention at all....type " *scoff* peasant"

Spam healing springs and type " Do you peasants enjoy my springs?" and if one of them dies because you're the middle of typing....type "Peasant, I didn't give you permission to die?"

Tasear · July 2018

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

The trick is, don't let them blame you ever!! Start the dungeon off by showing your dominance " Which one of you peasants need my healings?" or simply type " Peasants"

Every time someone dies from the red, one-shot, or just you not paying attention at all....type " *scoff* peasant"

Spam healing springs and type " Do you peasants enjoy my springs?" and if one of them dies because you're the middle of typing....type "Peasant, I didn't give you permission to die?"

Something like this?

AbysmalGhul · July 2018

Tasear wrote: »

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

The trick is, don't let them blame you ever!! Start the dungeon off by showing your dominance " Which one of you peasants need my healings?" or simply type " Peasants"

Every time someone dies from the red, one-shot, or just you not paying attention at all....type " *scoff* peasant"

Spam healing springs and type " Do you peasants enjoy my springs?" and if one of them dies because you're the middle of typing....type "Peasant, I didn't give you permission to die?"

Something like this?

See? You get it * devil face

kargen27 · July 2018

A tank in our guild (Argonian) is trying out a new set-up using one of the meditate morphs from the Psijic Order skill line and has been surviving vet trial with minimal support from the healer going in with about 25K health.

He thinks he can go down to 20K health and still be okay. Knowing how much time he puts into his builds and testing them I am pretty sure he will be able to do it without hurting the group any.

mocap · July 2018

"dps + classic hp tank" is pff. Waaaay better if healer will do dps and tank just agro.

I think only experienced player with shield stacking pet sorc can do vet dungeons (not dlc) like tank and do some ok dps (20K+ depending how often you need to shield yourself). Needless to say you have Surge. I remember DD mag sorc in vet Blessed crucible, he was able to facetank firewaves from last boss stupidly easy with his shields. Maybe this will be my new character.

starkerealm · July 2018

gethemshauna wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

40K+ HP is a crutch...an unnecessary one at that....

You have only words, I do have a lot of videos proving that 40k hp is minimum for efficient tanking. Still waiting for your proof that you are able to tank veteran content with 20k hp.
(And I don't think about Banished Cells or fungal grotto)

I met a guy in a random normal once. I was on a level 26, they were CP15, and the only player with a visible CP score in the dungeon. They insisted, swore up and down, that CP only applied in trials and dungeons. Now, I had 820something CP at the time, so I pointed out that they were mistaken, at which point they insisted that I should look on the internet. Right.

You remind me of that player.

I get nervous when my health is under 35k on a tank, but tanking as low as 30k is entirely viable if you know what you're doing.

Go on the internet, and you'll find someone saying the game is unplayable if your ping is over 50. You'll find someone saying that Alessia's Bullwark is the best taking set ever. You'll find someone saying you need 40k health to be a tank. You don't. You can tank vet with as little as 25k if both the tank and the healer really know their stuff. 35k's a reasonable number. However, if your tank has low health and dies a lot and doesn't taunt, that's a fake tank.

Jaimeh · July 2018

Tasear wrote: »

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

The trick is, don't let them blame you ever!! Start the dungeon off by showing your dominance " Which one of you peasants need my healings?" or simply type " Peasants"

Every time someone dies from the red, one-shot, or just you not paying attention at all....type " *scoff* peasant"

Spam healing springs and type " Do you peasants enjoy my springs?" and if one of them dies because you're the middle of typing....type "Peasant, I didn't give you permission to die?"

Something like this?

It's really tempting to do just the bare minimum when you have fake tanks, or dps light attacking while standing the red without a care in the world, but my healer swore to do no harm

Image source

jaschacasadiob16_ESO · July 2018

Drink from chalice while you watch them die. Then leave.

starkerealm · July 2018

lagrue wrote: »

I checked back on this topic and I wanted you guys to know something. This didn't even happen in Vet. It happened in standard Imperial Prison where our tank couldn't survive the Warden's big flame burst thing because it does something like 17k damage. He was going from full health to dead in one shot and then blaming me for not healing enough. (Forget the fact the same guy stepped in the blue circles multiple times and died to fall damage.)

I won't claim to be the best healer.... but I've carried dozens of standard dungeons with my healer and ONE underleveled friend. If we can 2 man dungeons when he was level 25, I don't understand how a level 300 CP tank is gonna be harping on me for not being able to survive. He was also the only person dying... everybody else survived and we didn't fail any of the fights even when he was down. If you're CP300 and dying in regular old dungeons, I don't know what it could be but l2p issues.

I buff and heal everybody with a near 100% uptime on most abilities. It's annoying to get messages midfight when they sit dead on the ground through no fault of their own.

I remember hitting nWGT on an alt who'd just hit 50 once. I had trash gear but about 18k health on my DPS. The other DPS had 12k health. Fun trivia, the oneshot threshold in nWGT is 13k. I did not know this until that run. Our healer was, legitimately, good. Tank had 26k health... okay, so, technically, that's fine. That's enough health to clear normal WGT if you know what you're doing, but he didn't. He'd recently decided to switch from DPS to tanking, without changing anything other than his gear. Now, I'm not going to sit here and trash him, because after we abandoned the run, I talked him through some stuff to get him started. He had around 300cp. Of course, difference is, he wasn't blaming anyone.

Androconium · July 2018

what a boring post.

Sru · July 2018

webrgesner wrote: »

. And stay blocking the whole time. its that simple.
Iseen dumb tanks wearing divines like 60hp but 9k stam and still die fast. Its all about SUSTAIN

You stay blocking the whole time in any vet group I run with and you'll be politely asked to leave. Your job is not just mitigating your damage but taking control of the whole fight and mitigating everyone's damage. Go in, grab as much aggro with AoE talons/caltrops as you can to bunch up the foe. Find the archers/boss/two handers and get their attention with taunt. Position boss away from party, provide constant buffs/debuffs .. block when needed but make sure you heavy attack to regain resources.

getemshauna · July 2018

VilniusNastavnik wrote: »

gethemshauna wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

gethemshauna wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

gethemshauna wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

gethemshauna wrote: »

If tank has less than 40k hp it is not a tank.

You serious?

Ofcourse I am. What do you wanna stack on tank? Spell power? I talk about tanking serious content not overland delves.

LOL...I don't know if I'd want you tanking my "serious content" if I saw you with 40K+ health...

Do you even know the tank role in this game? You want to provide most buffs to the party and most debuffs to enemy to unlock most damage for your DDs. Except that, holding enemies (if possible) in single place again for maximizing damage. A lot of mechanics in this game requires from you to have this 40k hp (maintanking vAS hm or even few dlc dungeons, like bloodroot forge).
You want to have big hp pool to make it easy to healers to keep you alive and create a big reserve of taking damage. There is nothing to else to stack on tank. Or maybe tell me what content you acomplished with your 20k hp tank, and best would be showing a video

Spelling

You only need 30-35k health to easily clear all vet dungeons, dlc hardmodes included. That extra health could be better put to dps stats to make the whole thing quicker.

Also your healer should not be keeping you alive in vets, you can do the yourself with your 30-35k health. Your healer should mostly be dpsing and giving out resources.

In your scenario the tank is doing sod all dps and so is the healer. Must takes hours to do the vet dungeons lol.

Your tanking abilities like Piercing Armor or Deep Slash are not made for dpsing. Investing your stats into mag or stam (not saying about Triune or Tri Stat Glyphs) will not bring ANY impactful change on group dps you wanna achieve. You really think things will go quicker because you invested your attribute points into stamina instead of health? DPSing in this game works only if you are glass cannons with few defensive options (Bi stat food, Vigor, Blade cloak or Shields). That is how this game works, due to how are dps sources scaling with themselves. Raising your dps to 8k from 5k on a tank will not make any difference, and leaves you with a risk of dying, especially if you play without a healer, since your strongest selfheals and defensive options as a tank scale with max health. Maybe you think using Hunding's on tank instead of Alkosh will raise group dps?
Healer dpsing? Same story here. Your group will gain most dps when you focus on buffing, not dealing damage. Jorvuld with Warhorn or Olorime will obviously unlock more damage for group than healer with Julianos spamming Force Shock.

Its not a dps thing.. its a resource thing. Cutting health from 50k to 40k tops can bring resources to 20.. 25k. These extra resources will keep you alive more than 5k extra health ever will.

I have 1 tank orc dk at 45k health with 20 and 22k resources mag and stam respective.

I have 1 argonian heal tank with 35k health 16k stam and 30k mag. Designed for 3 dps parties.

End of the day if youknow what you are doing 35k with extra rezources beats 40k with less resources anyday.

Managing resources on tank it's all about experience, not max value. I'm a fan of Triune Jewerly and Tri-stat glyphs, because I like having high stats pool. Having stam or mag around 20k is totally fine, if you know when you can use Balance or Deep thoughts max value of stam or mag becomes less meaningful.

Spelling

Onigar · July 2018

Here are a few thoughts, maybe they don't fit your ideas but anyway here goes,

Tank: Should be able to self sustain, I have seen many times where group is wiped except for the tank and the tank then slowly finishes off the boos. A nice thing to watch, Respect
Healer: This is not just about healing but also buffing the group and de-buffing the boss so he takes damage quicker.
DPS: While all this is going on you can sit back and relax... or ... maybe keep your dots on the boss, weave in the light and heavy attacks on your rotation and don't have skills on your bar that are not useful in the fight such as rapids.

In the end when there is a wipe or players die its a group fault.

The job for Res goes to the DPS.
The Healer should not Res unless its easy to do.
The Tank can Res but normally this is when they are really confident in their playing.

When I die in a fight I don't blame the healer because if like me when I am healing I blame myself enough but not for a player dying but for letting the situation develop that leads to the death or deaths.

getemshauna · July 2018

starkerealm wrote: »

gethemshauna wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

40K+ HP is a crutch...an unnecessary one at that....

You have only words, I do have a lot of videos proving that 40k hp is minimum for efficient tanking. Still waiting for your proof that you are able to tank veteran content with 20k hp.
(And I don't think about Banished Cells or fungal grotto)

I met a guy in a random normal once. I was on a level 26, they were CP15, and the only player with a visible CP score in the dungeon. They insisted, swore up and down, that CP only applied in trials and dungeons. Now, I had 820something CP at the time, so I pointed out that they were mistaken, at which point they insisted that I should look on the internet. Right.

You remind me of that player.

I get nervous when my health is under 35k on a tank, but tanking as low as 30k is entirely viable if you know what you're doing.

Go on the internet, and you'll find someone saying the game is unplayable if your ping is over 50. You'll find someone saying that Alessia's Bullwark is the best taking set ever. You'll find someone saying you need 40k health to be a tank. You don't. You can tank vet with as little as 25k if both the tank and the healer really know their stuff. 35k's a reasonable number. However, if your tank has low health and dies a lot and doesn't taunt, that's a fake tank.

I'll skip first part.

Having 30k-35k is nervous indeed, and can finish a one-shot in multiple scenarios. Best example would be vCloudrest where you are getting healing debuff, and your big hp pool works out for you, leaving you a big reserve of taking damage. Your bigger max stam or mag max in that case doesn't matter, if you don't know how to manage resources on a tank you will end empty even with 30k max stam.
Another great example can be vHof Pinnacle Factotum boss. I know tanks here were even using Reavtive armor to survive attack while they're stunned even with 44k+ health.
If having lower mag or stam can be accepted just by learning how to play with that, and difference between it set at 20k or 25k is meaningless, difference between 35k and 40k hp in some scenarions can make you dead. Bigger HP pool is a clear winner, in terms of having no risk about dying, better scaling defensive options and even making healers' lifes easier.

Sleep · July 2018

healer's quest

munster1404 · July 2018

gethemshauna wrote: »

If tank has less than 40k hp it is not a tank.

Obviously my 39.1K hp does not cater to your requirements.

getemshauna · July 2018

munster1404 wrote: »

gethemshauna wrote: »

If tank has less than 40k hp it is not a tank.

Obviously my 39.1K hp does not cater to your requirements.

Just horn and you're good to go

Kuramas9tails · July 2018

I only came across this situation once. The tank would stand inside the steam by Saint Olms in nAS. They wouldn't move. They wouldn't block. I never had to heal the tank during that part because I have tanked it myself and simply moved out of the way like 99.99% of the other tanks did. Not this tank. When they died, they blamed me as the healer. I told them to move out of the damage. They didn't. They kept doing it over and over again. And then another player in the group had the audacity to blame me, the only healer in the group. I was already healing and buffing the dps. That is not a hard boss to solo tank on without a healer. And this was a close to max cp player. Then the tank disbanded the group. lol

Guppet · July 2018

gethemshauna wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

gethemshauna wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

gethemshauna wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

gethemshauna wrote: »

If tank has less than 40k hp it is not a tank.

You serious?

Ofcourse I am. What do you wanna stack on tank? Spell power? I talk about tanking serious content not overland delves.

LOL...I don't know if I'd want you tanking my "serious content" if I saw you with 40K+ health...

Do you even know the tank role in this game? You want to provide most buffs to the party and most debuffs to enemy to unlock most damage for your DDs. Except that, holding enemies (if possible) in single place again for maximizing damage. A lot of mechanics in this game requires from you to have this 40k hp (maintanking vAS hm or even few dlc dungeons, like bloodroot forge).
You want to have big hp pool to make it easy to healers to keep you alive and create a big reserve of taking damage. There is nothing to else to stack on tank. Or maybe tell me what content you acomplished with your 20k hp tank, and best would be showing a video

Spelling

You only need 30-35k health to easily clear all vet dungeons, dlc hardmodes included. That extra health could be better put to dps stats to make the whole thing quicker.

Also your healer should not be keeping you alive in vets, you can do the yourself with your 30-35k health. Your healer should mostly be dpsing and giving out resources.

In your scenario the tank is doing sod all dps and so is the healer. Must takes hours to do the vet dungeons lol.

Your tanking abilities like Piercing Armor or Deep Slash are not made for dpsing. Investing your stats into mag or stam (not saying about Triune or Tri Stat Glyphs) will not bring ANY impactful change on group dps you wanna achieve. You really think things will go quicker because you invested your attribute points into stamina instead of health? DPSing in this game works only if you are glass cannons with few defensive options (Bi stat food, Vigor, Blade cloak or Shields). That is how this game works, due to how are dps sources scaling with themselves. Raising your dps to 8k from 5k on a tank will not make any difference, and leaves you with a risk of dying, especially if you play without a healer, since your strongest selfheals and defensive options as a tank scale with max health. Maybe you think using Hunding's on tank instead of Alkosh will raise group dps?
Healer dpsing? Same story here. Your group will gain most dps when you focus on buffing, not dealing damage. Jorvuld with Warhorn or Olorime will obviously unlock more damage for group than healer with Julianos spamming Force Shock.

It’s not just about dps stats though is it.

If you have 45k health, but would have survived the content with 35k, then that 10k is utterly wasted.

It’s not like that extra 10k is just stats only. It’s about set bonus as well. If your not using those 10k of health bonus then it can be spent on other set bonus that will speed up things. It’s not just about scaling damage abilities, your damage abilities won’t scale well as tank.

You don’t increase dps as tank by putting points in stamina or magica, you do it by using proc or special sets, those don’t scale, so being a tank doesn’t limit thier impact.

This is how the meta comes about, by understanding mechanics on a deeper level. Akatosh didn’t happen by mistake it was due to this line of thought. You look at things that don’t scale and attribute them to people that can fit them in without impacting group dps.

For example.

Your 45k health tank compared to a 35k tank that uses thier set bonus to use Baharas curse or Thunderbug, heck even both (full 5 piece set bonus can equate to about 6k health). Which do you think will clear all the trash quicker? It’s not even a debate. Then on the boss, if the 35k can survive, it’s lost nothing but added a huge buff to AOE dps on the trash, even adds a fair bit on the boss.

This is all in relation to dungeons, on trials the buffing is a larger multiplier.

Guppet · July 2018

paulychan wrote: »

gethemshauna wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

gethemshauna wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

gethemshauna wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

gethemshauna wrote: »

If tank has less than 40k hp it is not a tank.

You serious?

Ofcourse I am. What do you wanna stack on tank? Spell power? I talk about tanking serious content not overland delves.

LOL...I don't know if I'd want you tanking my "serious content" if I saw you with 40K+ health...

Do you even know the tank role in this game? You want to provide most buffs to the party and most debuffs to enemy to unlock most damage for your DDs. Except that, holding enemies (if possible) in single place again for maximizing damage. A lot of mechanics in this game requires from you to have this 40k hp (maintanking vAS hm or even few dlc dungeons, like bloodroot forge).
You want to have big hp pool to make it easy to healers to keep you alive and create a big reserve of taking damage. There is nothing to else to stack on tank. Or maybe tell me what content you acomplished with your 20k hp tank, and best would be showing a video

Spelling

You only need 30-35k health to easily clear all vet dungeons, dlc hardmodes included. That extra health could be better put to dps stats to make the whole thing quicker.

Also your healer should not be keeping you alive in vets, you can do the yourself with your 30-35k health. Your healer should mostly be dpsing and giving out resources.

In your scenario the tank is doing sod all dps and so is the healer. Must takes hours to do the vet dungeons lol.

Your tanking abilities like Piercing Armor or Deep Slash are not made for dpsing. Investing your stats into mag or stam (not saying about Triune or Tri Stat Glyphs) will not bring ANY impactful change on group dps you wanna achieve. You really think things will go quicker because you invested your attribute points into stamina instead of health? DPSing in this game works only if you are glass cannons with few defensive options (Bi stat food, Vigor, Blade cloak or Shields). That is how this game works, due to how are dps sources scaling with themselves. Raising your dps to 8k from 5k on a tank will not make any difference, and leaves you with a risk of dying, especially if you play without a healer, since your strongest selfheals and defensive options as a tank scale with max health. Maybe you think using Hunding's on tank instead of Alkosh will raise group dps?
Healer dpsing? Same story here. Your group will gain most dps when you focus on buffing, not dealing damage. Jorvuld with Warhorn or Olorime will obviously unlock more damage for group than healer with Julianos spamming Force Shock.

I’m with this guy.

Here is how the other guys scenario plays out;
Dps 1- nah bro, we don’t need heals and respec your tank for dps. 35k health is ok
Dps 2- ya bro
Heals- logs out
Tank- spends an hour reZing deeps on first encounter. Notices deeps are chumps doing 20k max, maybe
Tank- logs

The scenario with heals, tank and capable deeps is a clear

Oh dear, your scenario assumes the tank is not very good. If they know what they are doing, they can self heal, and survive all vet dungeons with 35k health, while buffing or boosting damage in other ways.

Most damage in this game comes from mechanics, when you know them your damage revived comes right down.

If you need 40k+ health, then your not that good or just inexperienced with the content.

Respecing for damage, does not mean what you think it does. It means being able to put out dps while still being able to survive, they are not a dps with 35k health. They are still a tank.

getemshauna · July 2018

Guppet wrote: »

gethemshauna wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

gethemshauna wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

gethemshauna wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

gethemshauna wrote: »

If tank has less than 40k hp it is not a tank.

You serious?

Ofcourse I am. What do you wanna stack on tank? Spell power? I talk about tanking serious content not overland delves.

LOL...I don't know if I'd want you tanking my "serious content" if I saw you with 40K+ health...

Do you even know the tank role in this game? You want to provide most buffs to the party and most debuffs to enemy to unlock most damage for your DDs. Except that, holding enemies (if possible) in single place again for maximizing damage. A lot of mechanics in this game requires from you to have this 40k hp (maintanking vAS hm or even few dlc dungeons, like bloodroot forge).
You want to have big hp pool to make it easy to healers to keep you alive and create a big reserve of taking damage. There is nothing to else to stack on tank. Or maybe tell me what content you acomplished with your 20k hp tank, and best would be showing a video

Spelling

You only need 30-35k health to easily clear all vet dungeons, dlc hardmodes included. That extra health could be better put to dps stats to make the whole thing quicker.

Also your healer should not be keeping you alive in vets, you can do the yourself with your 30-35k health. Your healer should mostly be dpsing and giving out resources.

In your scenario the tank is doing sod all dps and so is the healer. Must takes hours to do the vet dungeons lol.

Your tanking abilities like Piercing Armor or Deep Slash are not made for dpsing. Investing your stats into mag or stam (not saying about Triune or Tri Stat Glyphs) will not bring ANY impactful change on group dps you wanna achieve. You really think things will go quicker because you invested your attribute points into stamina instead of health? DPSing in this game works only if you are glass cannons with few defensive options (Bi stat food, Vigor, Blade cloak or Shields). That is how this game works, due to how are dps sources scaling with themselves. Raising your dps to 8k from 5k on a tank will not make any difference, and leaves you with a risk of dying, especially if you play without a healer, since your strongest selfheals and defensive options as a tank scale with max health. Maybe you think using Hunding's on tank instead of Alkosh will raise group dps?
Healer dpsing? Same story here. Your group will gain most dps when you focus on buffing, not dealing damage. Jorvuld with Warhorn or Olorime will obviously unlock more damage for group than healer with Julianos spamming Force Shock.

It’s not just about dps stats though is it.

If you have 45k health, but would have survived the content with 35k, then that 10k is utterly wasted.

It’s not like that extra 10k is just stats only. It’s about set bonus as well. If your not using those 10k of health bonus then it can be spent on other set bonus that will speed up things. It’s not just about scaling damage abilities, your damage abilities won’t scale well as tank.

You don’t increase dps as tank by putting points in stamina or magica, you do it by using proc or special sets, those don’t scale, so being a tank doesn’t limit thier impact.

This is how the meta comes about, by understanding mechanics on a deeper level. Akatosh didn’t happen by mistake it was due to this line of thought. You look at things that don’t scale and attribute them to people that can fit them in without impacting group dps.

For example.

Your 45k health tank compared to a 35k tank that uses thier set bonus to use Baharas curse or Thunderbug, heck even both (full 5 piece set bonus can equate to about 6k health). Which do you think will clear all the trash quicker? It’s not even a debate. Then on the boss, if the 35k can survive, it’s lost nothing but added a huge buff to AOE dps on the trash, even adds a fair bit on the boss.

This is all in relation to dungeons, on trials the buffing is a larger multiplier.

The thing is, I already mentioned few places where you will need that 45k health.

45k hp is EASILY obtainable with a Ebon/Alkosh set what is absolutely best option currently for tanks, because 1k additional health (which works with boosts like horn or passives) for allies is game changer, they feel more confident and it saves their lives unlimited times doing the encounter.

If you wanna go with pure health tank with sets like Greenpact or Plague Doctor it obviously doesn't make sense. I'm not talking about it, because in that scenario you would hit 60k hp what is completly unecessary.

Let me skip a part about Baharas or Thunderbug, because Alkosh outperforms both, in single target and AoE scenario. I agree with the fact that tank is buff/debuff machine, what you can find in my previous posts. But if you already cover that part, your best way to go is stacking statistics, focusing on health (Lord mundus stone for example). It's not hard to do and in the end makes you tanky, on resistance cap, having three support sets (with Thurvokun or Lord Warden), and 40k+ hp. 20k resources are absolutely not a problem, if you have some expirence how to manage it (Obsidian Shield, Balance, Deep thoughts, Belly Netch).
For proving you that you can cover all debuffs/buffs and still have easily 40k+ health to not dying even in hardest encounters, here are stats from my tank:
https://imgur.com/a/FnpdL0g
It's without major resistances and horn. And I obviously have Alkosh, Ebon and Thurvokun here. As you see, covering all supports sets and still having 47k hp is not a problem, and allows me to survive every content in the game easily.
EDIT: I want to mention that 20k stam and 18k mag is even more than I need to tank seamlessly.

Guppet · July 2018

gethemshauna wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

gethemshauna wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

40K+ HP is a crutch...an unnecessary one at that....

You have only words, I do have a lot of videos proving that 40k hp is minimum for efficient tanking. Still waiting for your proof that you are able to tank veteran content with 20k hp.
(And I don't think about Banished Cells or fungal grotto)

I met a guy in a random normal once. I was on a level 26, they were CP15, and the only player with a visible CP score in the dungeon. They insisted, swore up and down, that CP only applied in trials and dungeons. Now, I had 820something CP at the time, so I pointed out that they were mistaken, at which point they insisted that I should look on the internet. Right.

You remind me of that player.

I get nervous when my health is under 35k on a tank, but tanking as low as 30k is entirely viable if you know what you're doing.

Go on the internet, and you'll find someone saying the game is unplayable if your ping is over 50. You'll find someone saying that Alessia's Bullwark is the best taking set ever. You'll find someone saying you need 40k health to be a tank. You don't. You can tank vet with as little as 25k if both the tank and the healer really know their stuff. 35k's a reasonable number. However, if your tank has low health and dies a lot and doesn't taunt, that's a fake tank.

I'll skip first part.

Having 30k-35k is nervous indeed, and can finish a one-shot in multiple scenarios. Best example would be vCloudrest where you are getting healing debuff, and your big hp pool works out for you, leaving you a big reserve of taking damage. Your bigger max stam or mag max in that case doesn't matter, if you don't know how to manage resources on a tank you will end empty even with 30k max stam.
Another great example can be vHof Pinnacle Factotum boss. I know tanks here were even using Reavtive armor to survive attack while they're stunned even with 44k+ health.
If having lower mag or stam can be accepted just by learning how to play with that, and difference between it set at 20k or 25k is meaningless, difference between 35k and 40k hp in some scenarions can make you dead. Bigger HP pool is a clear winner, in terms of having no risk about dying, better scaling defensive options and even making healers' lifes easier.

This is about dungeons. Not trials. All you examples of needing huge health are trials. Trials require more, we all know this. Dungeons 35k is more than enough. What in any dungeon can one shot you on 35k that wouldn’t also kill at 45k? That’s 35k with 33221 resistance and -15% from maim too.