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Addressing the Templar's Rune Focus: A Counter Solution
Vercingetorix
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The Templar changes are actually performance nerfs under the label of being a buff. 2600 Resistance increase is insignificant in combat. Restoring resources and movement is FAR more important to survival in both PvE and PvP. Here's a simple solution to the issue Templars have been facing with their Rune skill:
Edited by Vercingetorix on July 12, 2018 6:18PM This change would give Magplars their sustain and the ability to carry their buffs with them without completely negating their sustain to do so. The second morph is slightly reworked to provide a MOBILITY TOOL for both Magplars and Stamplars that want the freedom to evade rather than the magicka sustain. The Fleeting morph allows more COUNTERPLAY for a Templar in terms of LoS opponents and closing the gap on enemies in mid-combat.Channeled Focus (Duration: 10 seconds; Base Cost: 1080 Magicka - This is the value on live)
Create a rune of celestial protection, which defends you while you stand within it and for up to 15 seconds after leaving it. The rune grants you Major Resolve and Major Ward, increasing your Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 5280.You also recover 120 Magicka every 0.5 seconds.
Fleeting Focus (Duration: 10 seconds; Base Cost: 1890 Magicka - Live Value)
Create a rune of celestial protection, which defends you while you stand within it and for up to 15 seconds after leaving it. The rune grants you Major Resolve and Major Ward, increasing your Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 5280. You also gain Minor Expedition and Minor Protection, increasing your movement speed by 10% and reducing your damage taken by 8%.
“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
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NobleX35✭✭✭✭I think this would be a much better version to the current implementation. I dont really like the idea or losing minor vitality on restoring focus, but I wouldnt complain too much if it were replaced by your suggestion for minor expedition."Only the dead have seen the end of war."3 -
Vercingetorix✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think this would be a much better version to the current implementation. I dont really like the idea or losing minor vitality on restoring focus, but I wouldnt complain too much if it were replaced by your suggestion for minor expedition.
Templars finally getting a class ability for mobility? Yeah, Minor Vitality is a small price to pay for the ability to move around better - you still keep Minor Protection while running around, so it's not like you're being left empty-handed. I made a judgment call and figured most Templars would want 8% mitigation over 8% healing received in most cases. Templars have little issue healing themselves but lowering the damage spikes and giving yourself higher mobility to kite and evade is a great buff to invest in.“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”0 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭or they could just stop *** with templars already? Zos has handled templars with the worst care out of any class, ever since morrowind they have been hurting this class to make other classes better at healing. That is some backward ass logic. Zos needs to revert templars to pre morroind and stop lowering the ceiling to raise the floor. How they have the audacity to nerf templars, THE SINGLE MOST *** ON CLASS, is astonishing.
I main a magsorc, barely play my templar and this *** is still disgusting to me5 -
Vercingetorix✭✭✭✭✭
✭or they could just stop *** with templars already? Zos has handled templars with the worst care out of any class, ever since morrowind they have been hurting this class to make other classes better at healing. That is some backward ass logic. Zos needs to revert templars to pre morroind and stop lowering the ceiling to raise the floor. How they have the audacity to nerf templars, THE SINGLE MOST *** ON CLASS, is astonishing.
I main a magsorc, barely play my templar and this *** is still disgusting to me
Are you suggesting that ZoS leaves the changes they made to Templar as-is? Leaving the Templar alone (even if they revert the nerf) is just as bad. What we have here is an opportunity for them to make a meaningful change to Templars to help pull them back up after the slew of changes they've endured.
Also, I'm going to have to disagree with you on "the most s***-on class" being the Templar. It's definitely magicka Wardens that have gotten the shaft over the past year. Templars aren't too far behind, though - I'll give you that. We're both drinking our sorrow away at the tavern, so to speak.“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”1 -
Stibbons✭✭✭✭✭or they could just stop *** with templars already? Zos has handled templars with the worst care out of any class, ever since morrowind they have been hurting this class to make other classes better at healing. That is some backward ass logic. Zos needs to revert templars to pre morroind and stop lowering the ceiling to raise the floor. How they have the audacity to nerf templars, THE SINGLE MOST *** ON CLASS, is astonishing.
I main a magsorc, barely play my templar and this *** is still disgusting to me
I am really forced to play magsorc too. Whole magplar is so weak and pretty much unplayable in endgame content pve/wvw/pvp. I am really pissed of whole never ending templar nerfs.0 -
Drdeath20✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wardens are dead to me and i have zero sympathy for anyone complaining about them. Class has only been around for a year or so and is behind a paywall. If anyones main and only is a warden they havent experienced years of sesnseless nerfs when the class was never the best to begin with in any form (magicka/stamina).
Oh magwarden sucks but guess what you can simply spend 1000 gold and reset your atteibutes and become a stamden which is arguably the best pvp class there is.
Magplars are the best incarnation of templars and they are just so so. At this point magplars have zero direction still and are still punching bags in cyrodil. Go full tanky and hope your proc sets, hit at the same time as your monster set and ultimate. You really could do that with any class but why would you want to when magsorcs and nightblades can just kill their opponents with a fairly easy skill rotation.2 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Vercingetorix wrote: »I think this would be a much better version to the current implementation. I dont really like the idea or losing minor vitality on restoring focus, but I wouldnt complain too much if it were replaced by your suggestion for minor expedition.
Templars finally getting a class ability for mobility? Yeah, Minor Vitality is a small price to pay for the ability to move around better - you still keep Minor Protection while running around, so it's not like you're being left empty-handed. I made a judgment call and figured most Templars would want 8% mitigation over 8% healing received in most cases. Templars have little issue healing themselves but lowering the damage spikes and giving yourself higher mobility to kite and evade is a great buff to invest in.
Please rephrase this to say Magplars. As a Stamplar main I am strongly against the idea of trading minor vitality for minor expedition, as healing on stamplar has already been nerfed severely in the past (major mending nerf) to the point where our healing now is mediocre. While I am for everything else listed, I will repeat I am STRONGLY against trading vitality for Expedition.Edited by templesus on July 14, 2018 2:04AM3 -
IAVITNI✭✭✭✭✭Please rephrase this to say Magplars. As a Stamplar main I am strongly against the idea of trading minor vitality for minor expedition, as healing on stamplar has already been nerfed severely in the past (major mending nerf) to the point where our healing now is mediocre. While I am for everything else listed, I will repeat I am STRONGLY against trading vitality for Expedition.
I second this. Currently run Troll King on my stamplar and I hate Troll King.
Also it kind of takes away from stam sorc identity if stamplars gain major expedition. Just doesn't make much sense to give templars this kind of mobility when it doesn't suit their class identity.
A simple fix imo is, in addition to the live version, simply have the affects be active while the skill is slotted on your bar. Magsorcs need to switch back every 6 seconds so 8 seconds of offensive time isn't that bad. More so if you utilize class snares to keep the fight near your rune.
Alternatively, reduce the buff duration to 6 seconds but have the buffs applied on cast and have the Rune drop after 4 seconds and maybe throw in an immobilize when it drops. This translates into a 2 second increased uptime and allows 4 seconds of complete mobility and places the rune closer to you for longer periods of time.
The way it is currently on live is much better than PTS. It just needs to be slightly more mobile. Stam sorcs refresh hurricane every 13 seconds, so 8 seconds on live isn't bad, its just annoying.0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Please rephrase this to say Magplars. As a Stamplar main I am strongly against the idea of trading minor vitality for minor expedition, as healing on stamplar has already been nerfed severely in the past (major mending nerf) to the point where our healing now is mediocre. While I am for everything else listed, I will repeat I am STRONGLY against trading vitality for Expedition.
I second this. Currently run Troll King on my stamplar and I hate Troll King.
Also it kind of takes away from stam sorc identity if stamplars gain major expedition. Just doesn't make much sense to give templars this kind of mobility when it doesn't suit their class identity.
A simple fix imo is, in addition to the live version, simply have the affects be active while the skill is slotted on your bar. Magsorcs need to switch back every 6 seconds so 8 seconds of offensive time isn't that bad. More so if you utilize class snares to keep the fight near your rune.
Alternatively, reduce the buff duration to 6 seconds but have the buffs applied on cast and have the Rune drop after 4 seconds and maybe throw in an immobilize when it drops. This translates into a 2 second increased uptime and allows 4 seconds of complete mobility and places the rune closer to you for longer periods of time.
The way it is currently on live is much better than PTS. It just needs to be slightly more mobile. Stam sorcs refresh hurricane every 13 seconds, so 8 seconds on live isn't bad, its just annoying.
Honestly at this rate, the fix is, to make the buff persist after the rune is dropped. Just. Stay in the rune and the buff duration keeps refreshing.
There's no reason to fix what ain' broke. Stamplars get their mobility, we get a slight nerf to sustain but nowhere near it could have been...there's no reason to make this -difficult- when it does not need to be.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on July 14, 2018 6:08AM0 -
IAVITNI✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »
Honestly at this rate, the fix is, to make the buff persist after the rune is dropped. Just. Stay in the rune and the buff duration keeps refreshing.
There's no reason to fix what ain' broke. Stamplars get their mobility, we get a slight nerf to sustain but nowhere near it could have been...there's no reason to make this -difficult- when it does not need to be.
Genuinely confused by the punctuation in your post. Not trying to be rude but not sure if you're saying the fix is to make the buff persist or no fix is needed and staying in the rune will refresh buff duration, i.e.L2P.
Stamplars getting minor expedition makes no sense and is an indirect nerf to stamsorcs. Stamplars stay on their targets via snares. Now the effectiveness of those snares is up for debate but that doesn't justify homogenizing the classes. Believe me, I've thought about minor expedition being added to Rune as well.
Minor vitality does more for stamplar's than minor expedition ever will unless templar healing gets reworked. And magplars don't need minor expedition. They can still spam purify and most use vampire's bane so their combat mobility is actually very good.
From a magplar perspective, the nerf is not "slight". The cost is nearly doubled and the magicka regen no longer refreshes. This actually punishes smart play and considering that rune was pretty much a magplars only resource tool, it's a very big hit. I need to spend 1.6k more magicka every 8 seconds just to maintain live sustain levels of horrid mechanics. As someone with a good amount of experience on my magplar in open world I can refresh the buff on live most of the time. So that 1.6k/8s is actually much less than what my actual sustain nerf would be. The change on PTS is a nerf in PvP and PvE. Period.
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Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »
Honestly at this rate, the fix is, to make the buff persist after the rune is dropped. Just. Stay in the rune and the buff duration keeps refreshing.
There's no reason to fix what ain' broke. Stamplars get their mobility, we get a slight nerf to sustain but nowhere near it could have been...there's no reason to make this -difficult- when it does not need to be.
Genuinely confused by the punctuation in your post. Not trying to be rude but not sure if you're saying the fix is to make the buff persist or no fix is needed and staying in the rune will refresh buff duration, i.e.L2P.
Stamplars getting minor expedition makes no sense and is an indirect nerf to stamsorcs. Stamplars stay on their targets via snares. Now the effectiveness of those snares is up for debate but that doesn't justify homogenizing the classes. Believe me, I've thought about minor expedition being added to Rune as well.
Minor vitality does more for stamplar's than minor expedition ever will unless templar healing gets reworked. And magplars don't need minor expedition. They can still spam purify and most use vampire's bane so their combat mobility is actually very good.
From a magplar perspective, the nerf is not "slight". The cost is nearly doubled and the magicka regen no longer refreshes. This actually punishes smart play and considering that rune was pretty much a magplars only resource tool, it's a very big hit. I need to spend 1.6k more magicka every 8 seconds just to maintain live sustain levels of horrid mechanics. As someone with a good amount of experience on my magplar in open world I can refresh the buff on live most of the time. So that 1.6k/8s is actually much less than what my actual sustain nerf would be. The change on PTS is a nerf in PvP and PvE. Period.
...You went off on a tangent and I'm not sure why.
The point of the post was to suggest that, instead of giving Templar major expedition, just keep the changes on PTS and re-introduce the key element of rune: That standing on the rune would extend the duration.
As for hemogenizing the classes....lets be brutally honest, they are hemogenized. The ones who had what little spark of originality were long nerfed, the same basic forumla applies to every single class, this combat system does not allow originality.
Also, compared to what we stand to lose, yes, it is slight. But short of a miracle on monday that persuades the designers to outright reverse the changes I have the feeling this is one of those changes that they wont budge on, and that we'll have to deal with. Short of a miracle in two days, it's damage control. Just try to recoup as much as you can.
TLDR: If you dont like geting minor expedition (For no reason, lets be honest, the only thing that classes ammount to is minor thematic and loadout differences) then do not add minor expedition, keep the version currently on PTS, and let the buff extend so long as you stand in the rune.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on July 14, 2018 7:59PM0 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »
Honestly at this rate, the fix is, to make the buff persist after the rune is dropped. Just. Stay in the rune and the buff duration keeps refreshing.
There's no reason to fix what ain' broke. Stamplars get their mobility, we get a slight nerf to sustain but nowhere near it could have been...there's no reason to make this -difficult- when it does not need to be.
Genuinely confused by the punctuation in your post. Not trying to be rude but not sure if you're saying the fix is to make the buff persist or no fix is needed and staying in the rune will refresh buff duration, i.e.L2P.
Stamplars getting minor expedition makes no sense and is an indirect nerf to stamsorcs. Stamplars stay on their targets via snares. Now the effectiveness of those snares is up for debate but that doesn't justify homogenizing the classes. Believe me, I've thought about minor expedition being added to Rune as well.
Minor vitality does more for stamplar's than minor expedition ever will unless templar healing gets reworked. And magplars don't need minor expedition. They can still spam purify and most use vampire's bane so their combat mobility is actually very good.
From a magplar perspective, the nerf is not "slight". The cost is nearly doubled and the magicka regen no longer refreshes. This actually punishes smart play and considering that rune was pretty much a magplars only resource tool, it's a very big hit. I need to spend 1.6k more magicka every 8 seconds just to maintain live sustain levels of horrid mechanics. As someone with a good amount of experience on my magplar in open world I can refresh the buff on live most of the time. So that 1.6k/8s is actually much less than what my actual sustain nerf would be. The change on PTS is a nerf in PvP and PvE. Period.
...You went off on a tangent and I'm not sure why.
The point of the post was to suggest that, instead of giving Templar major expedition, just keep the changes on PTS and re-introduce the key element of rune: That standing on the rune would extend the duration.
As for hemogenizing the classes....lets be brutally honest, they are hemogenized. The ones who had what little spark of originality were long nerfed, the same basic forumla applies to every single class, this combat system does not allow originality.
Also, compared to what we stand to lose, yes, it is slight. But short of a miracle on monday that persuades the designers to outright reverse the changes I have the feeling this is one of those changes that they wont budge on, and that we'll have to deal with. Short of a miracle in two days, it's damage control. Just try to recoup as much as you can.
TLDR: If you dont like geting minor expedition (For no reason, lets be honest, the only thing that classes ammount to is minor thematic and loadout differences) then do not add minor expedition, keep the version currently on PTS, and let the buff extend so long as you stand in the rune.
It has been historically known that channeled focus is the magplar morph, whereas restoring focus is the stamplar morph. I’ve never met a magplar or stamplar that have taken the opposite morph then what is normal and advised.
A magplar trying to change things about restoring focus is like trying to change things about biting Jabs, crescent sweep, binding javelin, potl or repentance.
Just. Don’t.
Let us give feedback on balancing our half of the class and y’all can give feedback on your half. I agree on the other proposed changes, as I actually play magplar quite often(my two most played characters are my stamplar then magplar), and I would not like to see the sustain nerfed the way it is.
But let’s be brutally honest. They didn’t listen when everyone banded together against the blazing spear change. They likely won’t listen on this subject either.Edited by templesus on July 14, 2018 10:26PM1 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »
Honestly at this rate, the fix is, to make the buff persist after the rune is dropped. Just. Stay in the rune and the buff duration keeps refreshing.
There's no reason to fix what ain' broke. Stamplars get their mobility, we get a slight nerf to sustain but nowhere near it could have been...there's no reason to make this -difficult- when it does not need to be.
Genuinely confused by the punctuation in your post. Not trying to be rude but not sure if you're saying the fix is to make the buff persist or no fix is needed and staying in the rune will refresh buff duration, i.e.L2P.
Stamplars getting minor expedition makes no sense and is an indirect nerf to stamsorcs. Stamplars stay on their targets via snares. Now the effectiveness of those snares is up for debate but that doesn't justify homogenizing the classes. Believe me, I've thought about minor expedition being added to Rune as well.
Minor vitality does more for stamplar's than minor expedition ever will unless templar healing gets reworked. And magplars don't need minor expedition. They can still spam purify and most use vampire's bane so their combat mobility is actually very good.
From a magplar perspective, the nerf is not "slight". The cost is nearly doubled and the magicka regen no longer refreshes. This actually punishes smart play and considering that rune was pretty much a magplars only resource tool, it's a very big hit. I need to spend 1.6k more magicka every 8 seconds just to maintain live sustain levels of horrid mechanics. As someone with a good amount of experience on my magplar in open world I can refresh the buff on live most of the time. So that 1.6k/8s is actually much less than what my actual sustain nerf would be. The change on PTS is a nerf in PvP and PvE. Period.
...You went off on a tangent and I'm not sure why.
The point of the post was to suggest that, instead of giving Templar major expedition, just keep the changes on PTS and re-introduce the key element of rune: That standing on the rune would extend the duration.
As for hemogenizing the classes....lets be brutally honest, they are hemogenized. The ones who had what little spark of originality were long nerfed, the same basic forumla applies to every single class, this combat system does not allow originality.
Also, compared to what we stand to lose, yes, it is slight. But short of a miracle on monday that persuades the designers to outright reverse the changes I have the feeling this is one of those changes that they wont budge on, and that we'll have to deal with. Short of a miracle in two days, it's damage control. Just try to recoup as much as you can.
TLDR: If you dont like geting minor expedition (For no reason, lets be honest, the only thing that classes ammount to is minor thematic and loadout differences) then do not add minor expedition, keep the version currently on PTS, and let the buff extend so long as you stand in the rune.
It has been historically known that channeled focus is the magplar morph, whereas restoring focus is the stamplar morph. I’ve never met a magplar or stamplar that have taken the opposite morph then what is normal and advised.
A magplar trying to change things about restoring focus is like trying to change things about biting Jabs, crescent sweep, binding javelin, potl or repentance.
Just. Don’t.
Let us give feedback on balancing our half of the class and y’all can give feedback on your half. I agree on the other proposed changes, as I actually play magplar quite often(my two most played characters are my stamplar then magplar), and I would not like to see the sustain nerfed the way it is.
But let’s be brutally honest. They didn’t listen when everyone banded together against the blazing spear change. They likely won’t listen on this subject either.
Absolutely agreed. Magplar needs to simply be left alone because ZOS has no idea how to balance.
Also absolutely agreed, the chances they will lisen to feedback on this issue are astronomically low.0 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Since ZOS has access to all the in-game data... makes me wonder if they discovered that either too many Magplars were still using DW and relying on CF for sustain, or that compared to other classes, Magplars were too easy to sustain without utilizing cost reduction/regen glyphs or heavy attacks. Thus they nerfed CF in order to force Magplars to rely on other sources of sustain instead of CF. Just a thought.CP: 2105 ** ESO+ ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025 | Returned: March 2026~~0 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Heh. What I'd like to see at some point in time, is the Rune Focus actually becoming an interactive synergy. To the Enemy. Press X to destroy.
Then mix up the Sacred Ground passive:
Standing in your Cleansing Ritual grants you Minor Mending.
Standing in you Rune Focus grants you Major Protection for 1s. (Remove the 50% increase to Resolve/Ward)
Standing in your Rite of Passage grants you Major Mending. (Perhaps reduce the healing of this ability somewhat for balance)
Actually make the Templars have a house good against ranged builds, but also provides counterplay (to allow it being strong) by getting up in their face and "dispelling" their defenses.
(You would still retain the "imbued" lingering effects from the focus, but not gain any of the "while standing in" bonuses when it's destroyed)Edited by Avran_Sylt on July 15, 2018 3:00PM0 -
IAVITNI✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »
Honestly at this rate, the fix is, to make the buff persist after the rune is dropped. Just. Stay in the rune and the buff duration keeps refreshing.
There's no reason to fix what ain' broke. Stamplars get their mobility, we get a slight nerf to sustain but nowhere near it could have been...there's no reason to make this -difficult- when it does not need to be.
Genuinely confused by the punctuation in your post. Not trying to be rude but not sure if you're saying the fix is to make the buff persist or no fix is needed and staying in the rune will refresh buff duration, i.e.L2P.
Stamplars getting minor expedition makes no sense and is an indirect nerf to stamsorcs. Stamplars stay on their targets via snares. Now the effectiveness of those snares is up for debate but that doesn't justify homogenizing the classes. Believe me, I've thought about minor expedition being added to Rune as well.
Minor vitality does more for stamplar's than minor expedition ever will unless templar healing gets reworked. And magplars don't need minor expedition. They can still spam purify and most use vampire's bane so their combat mobility is actually very good.
From a magplar perspective, the nerf is not "slight". The cost is nearly doubled and the magicka regen no longer refreshes. This actually punishes smart play and considering that rune was pretty much a magplars only resource tool, it's a very big hit. I need to spend 1.6k more magicka every 8 seconds just to maintain live sustain levels of horrid mechanics. As someone with a good amount of experience on my magplar in open world I can refresh the buff on live most of the time. So that 1.6k/8s is actually much less than what my actual sustain nerf would be. The change on PTS is a nerf in PvP and PvE. Period.
...You went off on a tangent and I'm not sure why.
The point of the post was to suggest that, instead of giving Templar major expedition, just keep the changes on PTS and re-introduce the key element of rune: That standing on the rune would extend the duration.
As for hemogenizing the classes....lets be brutally honest, they are hemogenized. The ones who had what little spark of originality were long nerfed, the same basic forumla applies to every single class, this combat system does not allow originality.
Also, compared to what we stand to lose, yes, it is slight. But short of a miracle on monday that persuades the designers to outright reverse the changes I have the feeling this is one of those changes that they wont budge on, and that we'll have to deal with. Short of a miracle in two days, it's damage control. Just try to recoup as much as you can.
TLDR: If you dont like geting minor expedition (For no reason, lets be honest, the only thing that classes ammount to is minor thematic and loadout differences) then do not add minor expedition, keep the version currently on PTS, and let the buff extend so long as you stand in the rune.
Tangent was referring to this part of your post:
Wording is a little unclear. One could interpret it as you saying the PTS change is right or one could interpret it as the live version being right or something else completely. It's neither here nor there, just clarifying.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Honestly at this rate, the fix is, to make the buff persist after the rune is dropped. Just. Stay in the rune and the buff duration keeps refreshing.
I'm not against Minor Expedition due to class identity. Retaining class identity was simply an additional reason it wouldn't make sense.
Stamplars have the worst effective and reliable healing out of all the stam classes on live.
DKs have Major Mending (25%) and Burning Heart (12%) (37% total additional healing)
NB can heal while Cloaked
Sorcs can now abuse Dark Deal and have access to Critical Surge
Wardens are Wardens
Templars have Minor Vitality (8%) and Minor Mending (8%) (16% total additional healing)
An argument can be made regarding the impact of cleanse and repentance. However, repentance requires that you are outnumbered by opponents that are significantly less skilled than you and it is significantly easier to sustain Major Defile than it is cleanse. Additionally, cleanse only really becomes a factor when Major Defile is in play. Over an extended fight, even in a 1v1, a stamplar is far more likely to run out of magicka before a DoT build runs out of their primary resource.
I'd also argue that if Cloak ever gets reworked, nb healing would need to be looked at but wrong thread.
TL;DR
I am against the removal of Minor Vitality for the addition of Minor Expedition because it makes the stam class with the weakest effective healing have even worse healing in exchange for a buff that does not synergize with the class kit. If you can aim your jabs and properly place your cleanse, your opponents should be snared giving you a relative in-combat movement speed increase greater than what Minor Expedition would give.
If you really want mobility, attach a snare immunity while standing in the rune. This is worth so much more than Minor Expedition or 2kish resistance, gives a noticeable benefit to returning/staying in your "house" and opens up a lot of magicka sustain as well as the option to run heavy on a stamplar again. That or stamplars need a way to effectively sustain cleanse without sacrificing their ability to do anything else.
As for Magplars, there is no need to nerf their sustain or their dps. Outside of healbots they are underperforming pretty much everywhere. The regen buff needs to be refreshable or have a duration increase to 6-8 seconds if the cost increase is to stay.2 -
Narvuntien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭"I personally like that templar doesn't have access to major expedition..." the start of the infamous house comment.
Their is 0% chance of templar getting major expedition...
They need stuns and they need stuns that don't knock the enemy out of their jabs range.... they need to be able to lock the door of their house....
I don't need 2K resistances because that will slam me into the resistances cap....Resistances are useless in this game because nothing gives you more resistance than holding block......I need stamina sustain! so I can block more.... give me sustain!
How able you remove the melee damage restriction on the templar spear wall passive and have the cost reduction passive also count for blocking cost as well. Now its a castle, fight me in my castle... If I keep you close I want to win... let the NBs fight from the shadows and the Sorcs from across the map and Templars want to fight you in the face.
While you are at it buff sun shield you nerfed it to oblivion, I get that damage scaling with health is a bad idea but you have no problem with defense scaling with magicka... which gives you more damage... Give it a good shield for your magicka investment... also there is another morph that needs love.2 -
CyrusArya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No thanks. Not open to give up minor vitality. Stamplar healing is bad enough as it is.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The proposed changes seem to ignore what Zos has done.
I understand OP is trying to negate the changes Zos has made on the PTS but ignoring Zos' intentions just talks around the issue instead of dealing with their intentions and serves no purpose.
So much that OP is completely ignoring the changes Zos has done then buffed it going in the opposite direction of Zos.
That will get fans from the forums but will do absolutely nothing to bring about changes to what is on the PTS.1 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Since ZOS has access to all the in-game data... makes me wonder if they discovered that either too many Magplars were still using DW and relying on CF for sustain, or that compared to other classes, Magplars were too easy to sustain without utilizing cost reduction/regen glyphs or heavy attacks. Thus they nerfed CF in order to force Magplars to rely on other sources of sustain instead of CF. Just a thought.
If that was genuinely their conclussion, my response is "Do you hate fun?"
ZOS has slowed the game or hit specific classes because they feel their just not -bad- enough and we've told them to stop before. Their designing a game for us, and we dont want to play a game where we're constantly re-ajusting.
It's time to stop, ZOS.0 -
caeliusstarbreaker✭✭✭✭✭
✭Still rather have my buffs move with me.Rhage Lionpride DC Stamina Templar
K-Hole2 -
dodgehopper_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »
Honestly at this rate, the fix is, to make the buff persist after the rune is dropped. Just. Stay in the rune and the buff duration keeps refreshing.
There's no reason to fix what ain' broke. Stamplars get their mobility, we get a slight nerf to sustain but nowhere near it could have been...there's no reason to make this -difficult- when it does not need to be.
Genuinely confused by the punctuation in your post. Not trying to be rude but not sure if you're saying the fix is to make the buff persist or no fix is needed and staying in the rune will refresh buff duration, i.e.L2P.
Stamplars getting minor expedition makes no sense and is an indirect nerf to stamsorcs. Stamplars stay on their targets via snares. Now the effectiveness of those snares is up for debate but that doesn't justify homogenizing the classes. Believe me, I've thought about minor expedition being added to Rune as well.
Minor vitality does more for stamplar's than minor expedition ever will unless templar healing gets reworked. And magplars don't need minor expedition. They can still spam purify and most use vampire's bane so their combat mobility is actually very good.
From a magplar perspective, the nerf is not "slight". The cost is nearly doubled and the magicka regen no longer refreshes. This actually punishes smart play and considering that rune was pretty much a magplars only resource tool, it's a very big hit. I need to spend 1.6k more magicka every 8 seconds just to maintain live sustain levels of horrid mechanics. As someone with a good amount of experience on my magplar in open world I can refresh the buff on live most of the time. So that 1.6k/8s is actually much less than what my actual sustain nerf would be. The change on PTS is a nerf in PvP and PvE. Period.
...You went off on a tangent and I'm not sure why.
The point of the post was to suggest that, instead of giving Templar major expedition, just keep the changes on PTS and re-introduce the key element of rune: That standing on the rune would extend the duration.
As for hemogenizing the classes....lets be brutally honest, they are hemogenized. The ones who had what little spark of originality were long nerfed, the same basic forumla applies to every single class, this combat system does not allow originality.
Also, compared to what we stand to lose, yes, it is slight. But short of a miracle on monday that persuades the designers to outright reverse the changes I have the feeling this is one of those changes that they wont budge on, and that we'll have to deal with. Short of a miracle in two days, it's damage control. Just try to recoup as much as you can.
TLDR: If you dont like geting minor expedition (For no reason, lets be honest, the only thing that classes ammount to is minor thematic and loadout differences) then do not add minor expedition, keep the version currently on PTS, and let the buff extend so long as you stand in the rune.
Difference between class passives is anything but minor.US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
<And plenty more>1 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Vercingetorix wrote: »or they could just stop *** with templars already? Zos has handled templars with the worst care out of any class, ever since morrowind they have been hurting this class to make other classes better at healing. That is some backward ass logic. Zos needs to revert templars to pre morroind and stop lowering the ceiling to raise the floor. How they have the audacity to nerf templars, THE SINGLE MOST *** ON CLASS, is astonishing.
I main a magsorc, barely play my templar and this *** is still disgusting to me
Are you suggesting that ZoS leaves the changes they made to Templar as-is? Leaving the Templar alone (even if they revert the nerf) is just as bad. What we have here is an opportunity for them to make a meaningful change to Templars to help pull them back up after the slew of changes they've endured.
Also, I'm going to have to disagree with you on "the most s***-on class" being the Templar. It's definitely magicka Wardens that have gotten the shaft over the past year. Templars aren't too far behind, though - I'll give you that. We're both drinking our sorrow away at the tavern, so to speak.
Are you suggesting they will listen to us and buff templars without adding 2 nerfs on top of that? You sir are an optimist. Especially magplars (stamplars base more on weapon than class skills and still can be competetive) are the most overnerfed class - just to make Wardens more attractive. That's why ZOS won't make anything special for templars, this class is pretty dead to me. Shame, I've spent more time in Cyrodiil on my Templar than sorc...I'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.1 -
FlamingBeard✭✭✭✭✭Since ZOS has access to all the in-game data... makes me wonder if they discovered that either too many Magplars were still using DW and relying on CF for sustain, or that compared to other classes, Magplars were too easy to sustain without utilizing cost reduction/regen glyphs or heavy attacks. Thus they nerfed CF in order to force Magplars to rely on other sources of sustain instead of CF. Just a thought.
All of what you said is inaccurate.
I can barely sustain on my PvP magplar with Elemental Drain, Channeled Focus, and Magick Recovery glyphs long enough to kill any kind of good player.
If anything, Sorcerer and Nightblade have way too much sustain for how much raw power they have access to at all times.
Templar and Dragonknight have the worst sustain of the magicka classes and also the worst mobility. Nothing balanced about that whatsoever.
Magicka Warden has great sustain and good damage but low CC so it's also fallen behind.2