Group Finder: You can now queue up as one role only

strangeradnd · July 2018

I don't have a problem with it being limited to one choice but if that is to be the road traveled they should add an "other" category for those that don't qualify as any of the three current choices.

ramasurinenpreub18_ESO · July 2018

This won't solve the problem of fake tanks, as has been said many times, only the vote kick does that (only temporarily unfortunately), but it will help prevent a lot of the clueless players who queue for two or more roles, which they aren't prepared to perform, from causing some unnecessary headaches for the rest of the group.

As I have an opposite schedule to most of my guildies and friends I pug a lot, mostly on my tanks, and I've seen this nonsense countless times. Some stam warden queues for a vet dungeon as dps and healer, and ends up in healer position. Has no heals slotted of course, and no intention of healing. Just stands there spamming snipe, so group wipes. Ask them to actually heal, just slot green lotus, do some heavies, and toss the occasional shrooms, no problem. No answer in party chat of course. Group's not getting anywhere, and vote kicks aren't working because they have an equally clueless friend in the group, so have to leave party and start again in 15 mins.

Or a guy queues as both dps and tank when I've queued as tank only. He ends up in dps slot but thinks he's tanking, since he has his sword and board, and so aggro locks every boss with me. Ask him to stop taunting, he's in the dps role, not tank. No answer of course. Try to explain the problem. Again no answer. Vet dlc dungeon with two tanks? Yeah that's not getting finished anytime this year. Bail.

Yes you can run some dungeons with 4 good dps, and yes some very good players can easily handle all three roles on a single character with a simple gear swap. It's unfortunate that this change inconveniences them, but it isn't about them. I think it's mostly meant to protect the relatively decent and good players from a problem that's regularly caused by newer and inexperienced ones, and I welcome it.

LiberatorSam · July 2018

DirkRavenclaw wrote: »

Good so. Now, one other Suggestion dear ZOS, stop changing Gear. I mean. The Gear you are wearing when entering a Group Dungeon is locked until the End. If you are a Healer have a minimum of 1 Restrostaff, as Tank S&B or Icestaff, as DPS D&W and/or Bow equipped. Im so sick of people queuing for roles they arent, it isnt fair, yes my Templar Healer does some decent DPS, i would still never queue as DPS

Healer has olo, jourvals, mending, sanc, IA, MA, SPC, worm, twlight

JPcrazysquirrel3 wrote: »

I started the game as DPS, but once I got to the point of doing dungeons regularly and when the "new and improved" Group Finder first came out, I got tired of waiting and waiting in the queue for a group, so I rolled a Tank and eventually a Healer. Now, I have two Tanks and a Healer. I only run dungeons with either one of my Tanks or my Healer , and I only queue as that respective role.

However, I am ultra-wary these days of even using Group Finder, since this started becoming more and more of a problem a couple years ago with having fake-whatevers and a buddy that ensures they won't get kicked from group. So, this change really won't change anything significantly and I'll still generally avoid Group Finder.
Anymore, I really only run dungeons if one of the guilds I'm in wants to run them, which I'm in a few PvE guilds, so that's pretty much always.
Sometimes though we still can't get enough people together for a full group, so we have to queue for the remaining role. And still, we've seen Fakes land in the group and then we have this kick and wait, kick and wait cycle, until we can get the role filled with a legit player-character.

ceil420 wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

ceil420 wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

This is a much needed change. If you want to DD, just queue as DD. If you want to Tank, queue as tank. Heal? Queue as heal. IT'S NOT THAT HARD FOLKS!

And if I'm capable of 2-3 of those roles and just want to do anything in a group?

It's not other people's fault that you can't make up your mind. Think of the group and not just yourself.

How does it hurt the group if I'm flexible in roles I can play? If I'm capable in both Heals and DPS, that helps the group. Flexibility is a good thing.

And again, why should I have to dedicate myself to a particular role? Why is that something that a mind should be made up about? I care about doing the content, not playing a particular role...

If you want to be a healer for the day, spec and gear up as a Healer and then hit the queue, or create a Healer alt
If you feel like DPSing, spec and gear up for DPS, or create a DPS alt
Don't try to be more than one role because you think you can and you think you're special, then come QQing and raging in the forums because you keep getting kicked from groups.

Dual queuing mean you can fulfill role 1 OR role 2, not role 1 AND role 2. I carry 11 different 5pc sets and 7 different monster sets with me and can swap on the fly between heal and dps (33k magsorc). I don’t need to “feel like dpsing or healing”, I dual queue and fulfill the role the dungeon queue wants me to do.

PS. I cleared all dlc hm (barred fang and scp) as both a dps and heal.

Ozstryker · July 2018

ceil420 wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

ceil420 wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

This is a much needed change. If you want to DD, just queue as DD. If you want to Tank, queue as tank. Heal? Queue as heal. IT'S NOT THAT HARD FOLKS!

And if I'm capable of 2-3 of those roles and just want to do anything in a group?

It's not other people's fault that you can't make up your mind. Think of the group and not just yourself.

How does it hurt the group if I'm flexible in roles I can play? If I'm capable in both Heals and DPS, that helps the group. Flexibility is a good thing.

And again, why should I have to dedicate myself to a particular role? Why is that something that a mind should be made up about? I care about doing the content, not playing a particular role...

I can't see your problem, if u are capable of fully performing the tank/healer role while still adding dps then there's no change.... The key word there is "fully" firstly perform your role i.e. Tank or heal, secondly buff/debuff... thirdly dps!.... If you want to do it the other way around, then cue as a dd!!

the only people getting pissy here are the self absorbed a-holes who will get called out and rightly kicked for cue jumping,

TheGr8David · July 2018

I believe this is a temporary solution to a permanent problem.

The problem is that most people don't find tanks/healers to be fun to play, hence the Over-saturation of DDs in the game.

Tanks and healers are pigeonholed into this kind of "DDs little helper" role, where outside their standard tasks of tanking and healing, they're expected to support the DPS with buffs and enemy de-buffs.

I expect there to be fewer tanks and healers than DPS, but I think there's far too fewer.

Gprime31 · July 2018

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

It solves nothing, I will still queue as healer to get faster into dungeon

And you’ll still get kicked, but even faster when ppl realize you’re fakn’ it. Personally, I like 3 DDs. Most random groups do not.

Ya 1 tank 3 dd fastest way to clear

Pixel_Zealot · July 2018

At the end of the day, we're missing a tank spec, where you need a minimum amount of taunt to be able to queue as a tank of a specific instance. So instead of dropping tank gear that gives resistance and health points, we should have tank gear that gives health/resistance and taunt points.

So you need to tank gear and abilities to be able to even queue as a tank. Same should be applied to healer and DD. Other MMOs do this easily with loads of different classes with loads of different roles. I don't know why this is so complicated?

LeagueTroll · July 2018

Artim_X wrote: »

Soleya wrote: »

Artim_X wrote: »

Soleya wrote: »

I queued as Tank (since I'm actually a tank on this character).

But I was 45% of the group dps, so should I have queued as the DPS instead?

If your character's primary focus is tanking then queue as tank. The DPS you contribute to the group is a bonus. Also DPS queue takes a very long time so unless you genuinely want to be the primary damage dealer that does not taunt bosses there is no point especially if your character is focused on tanking. There are a lot of bad DPS in this game so your bonus damage is greatly appreciated.

My post was a joke about people queuing as DPS but not actually being able to do damage.

lol roger roger, but yeah lots more fake DPS out there than people realize.

Fake dd think it’s offensive when ppl call them out and kick them. Exactly why i ask for a dps % meter.

Kuwhar · July 2018

Apherius wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

It solves nothing, I will still queue as healer to get faster into dungeon

And you’ll still get kicked, but even faster when ppl realize you’re fakn’ it. Personally, I like 3 DDs. Most random groups do not.

I queue as tank even if i'm dps, but i slot a taunt, i taunt and pack everything, I don't die and it's faster, I will never understand why some groups don't like that.

When i heal i have 2 expectations of a tank:

1.Taunt
2. Stay still (of course some movement for mechanics, just dont run around constantly)

So in that sense you would be fullfilling that role, others however queue as a tank and then dont taunt, thats the issue.

And to be fair, if you didnt build as a tank I can tell. It means more heals and more responsibility for me.

I personally dont mind that because i enjoy a challenge; but i can see why it'd annoy people that their "tank" is in medium armor, spamming DPS skills, not blocking, not standing still, and taking a lot more damage.

Ya dig?

Shadowmaster · July 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

If I can legit dual role

Bro that stuff might be fine for Volenfell, but Im pretty sure no one wants a multi-spec in vSC hard mode or vFL hard mode.

The newer content is even worse to pug for because the difficulty curve is so much higher.

Shadowmaster · July 2018

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

I wonder if anyone from ZOS will provide constructive feedback, apart from saying they removed some comments. We are discussing PTS and there is a long Developers comment to explain this change. It can still be fixed or at least improved.

Its obvious they dont really play the game at a high level. I love how multiple guilds are like "we have zos employees in our guild". My response is usually "What CP are they?".

No one from ZoS is using the group finder regularly. If they were, they would have killed it with fire for the garbage it is.

Guppet · July 2018

TheGr8David wrote: »

I believe this is a temporary solution to a permanent problem.

The problem is that most people don't find tanks/healers to be fun to play, hence the Over-saturation of DDs in the game.

Tanks and healers are pigeonholed into this kind of "DDs little helper" role, where outside their standard tasks of tanking and healing, they're expected to support the DPS with buffs and enemy de-buffs.

I expect there to be fewer tanks and healers than DPS, but I think there's far too fewer.

This is part of the problem.

It’s not helped by all the discussions of meta. Meta only matters in trials, at the sharp end at that.

For dungeons normal, vet and hardmodes, the tank does not have to be the slave to the dps players that they do in cutting edge trials.

I think too many players see all the talk of you have to have this set, that set and use these skills. It puts people off.

For dungeons you just need to fulfill your role.

As a tank you just need to survive, keep the boss on you and stack the mobs.

As a healer you just need to keep everyone alive and dps when your not doing that.

People keep being told they are supposed to be servicing the dps players. That’s rubbish in 4 mans, the dps should be able to put out enough dps to clear content. Anything from the tanks and healers should be a bonus.

Provided people do thier actual roles effectively, they should use gear and skills they enjoy using.

Tanking is actually fun, when you can use the gear and skills you want. You get to interact with all the mechanics. That’s fun as heck. As tanks people just need to ignore the trials meta and enjoy it.

For healers, yeah that role sucks in this game. I used to heal, but felt useless, now I tank and really enjoy it. I use sets I love, i keep aggro of the hard hitting mobs, I hit resistance caps, I self sustain, I herd and debuff, i get to play with all the mechanics, it’s fun. You just don’t need sets like ebon and ackatosh to do that.

I think people just need to stop making other people think that they can only do roles a certain way. If your effective at the role, being meta is actually boring as hell.

Merlin13KAGL · July 2018

Shadowmaster wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

If I can legit dual role

Bro that stuff might be fine for Volenfell, but Im pretty sure no one wants a multi-spec in vSC hard mode or vFL hard mode.

The newer content is even worse to pug for because the difficulty curve is so much higher.

Your base attributes don't change. Many of the CP's are common to multiple builds (Hard, Ele Defender, Resource return, etc) Being front loaded, the higher end CP's don't have as great an effect, so you effectively end up with 'spares.'

You might lose 1% in a specific area in order to gain effectiveness in another. It's 'hybrid' in the sense that it uses the common factors. We're not talking Stam heavy tank trying to be a Mag heavy healer.

The skills are generally not an issue - there are very few where you'd have to choose between the damage/heal/tank morph of a skill, so those come down to slotted or not. It's not a question of choice, but a question of skyshards at that point.

Like I said before, you won't min/max, obviously, but you can get pretty damn close. The rest comes down to gearing for the role and player skill. The last part being a much larger factor for clearing the HM DLC 4 man than a half a percent here or there.

And it doesn't take a top 1% player to clear that content, merely a good one. There's also far more "Volenfell" level content than vSP/FL at this point, too.

Is it the standard that everyone would be able to do those for all content? Of course not. Can if function for just about everything but vet Trials in the hands of a skilled player? Of course it can.

As a small frame of reference, last free ESO+ trial, I ended up tanking several of the vDLC dungeons at CP226 on an alt account, and again at ~400. Are you honestly going to tell me the same wouldn't be possible with 2x as many CP's?

The main account, sits >1000. I've been at this a while too, so I'm not just blowing smoke here.

And last, but not least, most people trying for HM Fang Lair / Scalecaller runs are not using the Random Dungeon Finder to do so in the first place. Because it becomes a question of experience, not of single vs dual role.

Mystrius_Archaion · July 2018

This is why it is the "unholy trinity".

They want people to need other people and need something other than top DPS, but they have absolutely no way to enforce enough players of each role at all times and enforce adhering to that role appropriately.

I miss games that designed groups to be easier than solo, where everybody was an asset to the group through AoE buffs so that nobody would be turned down or kicked and no special roles were needed. I miss games with dynamic difficulty scaling to player chosen settings, for easy story/fun or challenge, that just made it impossible for anybody to hate grouping because it was just so rewarding(buffs to all rewards while grouped no matter group size) and fun.
"Gone before its time, but never forgotten: City of Heroes".