Rune Prison “Nerf” is useless
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DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
BGs are horribly unbalanced, aside from raw duels they are probably the worst balanced content in game, the tight spaces, no CP and objective fighting makes cheap quick kills and cheesy mechanics and the like so much stronger. Most people have a chance vs rune/procs in OW, in noCP BGs its so tight and damage is more taxing that you are going to get hit, and often are screwed.
Openworld CP enabled cyro is probably the best representation of player skill, involving the environment and engagements. Stars mean near nothing though.
Well, there's nothing to really measure your performance with in Cyrodiil. The campaign leaderboards are about "who plays the most", not about who's playing best.
BGs are another story (the leaderboard inside BG, not the weekly one...).
You also tend to get matched against (atleast close to) equally skilled players thanks to the MMR system.
[snip] like Rune Cage is a problem in BGs, but it's a problem in open world as well. There's not really much of a difference there in terms of dmg or anything else imo.
Duels are the worst though, there's really only one viable playstyle for stamina and that's bleed tank.
[edited for profanity bypass & to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 2, 2025 2:09PM1 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Nightblades had two issues in the last patch that killed them: Sloads and rune cage.
Now they have a free pass on sloads thanks to the dev team’s obvious love and incredibly unbalanced bias.
Can anyone guess what’s next on the chopping block? Is it not obvious that every little forum murderblade is going to keep posting these threads until they tear apart rune cage with no recompense to the sorcerer class?
Before anyone cries that I’m a Sorc and obviously wrong because of that... I’ll point out that sloads still stacks and goes through shields.
Recompense would be frags, or maybe streak being unblockable. I have seen sorcs say that they deserve current cage, ignoring all balance whatsoever. It's like me saying my DK deserves infinite power lashes (like there was for a few PTS patches) I don't. Imbalance is imbalance.
Damage increase on frags: they used to do 15K on an armored target and stun. It needs that damage back and the stun. I’d love this so much. Problem is the devs never go back, admit mistakes, and revert a nerf.
Streak unblockable: Id rather have the cost refunded and not stack if you damage someone with it.
If ‘dragonbones’ Sorcs were “powerful” (lol reflectable destructive reach spam everywhere), I’d hate to see OP.
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DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Nightblades had two issues in the last patch that killed them: Sloads and rune cage.
Now they have a free pass on sloads thanks to the dev team’s obvious love and incredibly unbalanced bias.
Can anyone guess what’s next on the chopping block? Is it not obvious that every little forum murderblade is going to keep posting these threads until they tear apart rune cage with no recompense to the sorcerer class?
Before anyone cries that I’m a Sorc and obviously wrong because of that... I’ll point out that sloads still stacks and goes through shields.
Recompense would be frags, or maybe streak being unblockable. I have seen sorcs say that they deserve current cage, ignoring all balance whatsoever. It's like me saying my DK deserves infinite power lashes (like there was for a few PTS patches) I don't. Imbalance is imbalance.
Damage increase on frags: they used to do 15K on an armored target and stun. It needs that damage back and the stun. I’d love this so much. Problem is the devs never go back, admit mistakes, and revert a nerf.
By all means, that's 1,5k damage with your 15k (as the nerf was 10% damage) - I'd take that any day over 4-5k Rune Cages.Streak unblockable: Id rather have the cost refunded and not stack if you damage someone with it.
That would be cool as well (atleast the cost refund part), Streak is by far the most enjoyable ability to use on a Sorcerer imo.If ‘dragonbones’ Sorcs were “powerful” (lol reflectable destructive reach spam everywhere), I’d hate to see OP.
They are OP, right now.
One broken ability that is dragging the whole skill floor and ceiling of the class down & causing others to hate the class.
Name of that ability is in the name of this thread, and about 27 other threads.Edited by DDuke on July 12, 2018 10:46PM0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Nightblades had two issues in the last patch that killed them: Sloads and rune cage.
Now they have a free pass on sloads thanks to the dev team’s obvious love and incredibly unbalanced bias.
Can anyone guess what’s next on the chopping block? Is it not obvious that every little forum murderblade is going to keep posting these threads until they tear apart rune cage with no recompense to the sorcerer class?
Before anyone cries that I’m a Sorc and obviously wrong because of that... I’ll point out that sloads still stacks and goes through shields.
Recompense would be frags, or maybe streak being unblockable. I have seen sorcs say that they deserve current cage, ignoring all balance whatsoever. It's like me saying my DK deserves infinite power lashes (like there was for a few PTS patches) I don't. Imbalance is imbalance.
Damage increase on frags: they used to do 15K on an armored target and stun. It needs that damage back and the stun. I’d love this so much. Problem is the devs never go back, admit mistakes, and revert a nerf.
By all means, that's 1,5k damage with your 15k (as the nerf was 10% damage) - I'd take that any day over 4-5k Rune Cages.Streak unblockable: Id rather have the cost refunded and not stack if you damage someone with it.
That would be cool as well (atleast the cost refund part), Streak is by far the most enjoyable ability to use on a Sorcerer imo.If ‘dragonbones’ Sorcs were “powerful” (lol reflectable destructive reach spam everywhere), I’d hate to see OP.
They are OP, right now.
One broken ability that is dragging the whole skill floor and ceiling of the class down & causing others to hate the class.
Name of that ability is in the name of this thread, and about 27 other threads.
It was more than just 10% on frags. Let me explain the game mechanics to you:
We had empower, 20% damage off our burst setup
We had sharpened at 5K
We had shadow mundus giving ridiculous crit damage 12%?
We had 10% more damage on a frag.
They hit for 15-16K on heavy armored targets with impen.
This was on a dual wield sword build with amber/Spinner, I’d be glad to send you screenshots of people bitching about it. I can back this up!
Now we’re lucky to hit 6-7K on a frag while running the same *** setup. People think just removing rune cage and adding stun back to frag will fix the class. And it will. For everyone EXCEPT sorcerers.
Again. 6-7K frags. Some people are running more Health Regen than that. So eat my 3K cage until they fix this [snip]
[edited for profanity bypass]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 2, 2025 2:11PM1 -
Thunderknuckles✭✭✭✭I'm worn out with Rune cage, myself (frack, I'm completely over the whole of the CC bloat mess we're in) but the damage from it isn't over the top. I got run over by 6 or 7 EP last night at a resource. In the recap was Over Load. I was hit twice with it for 11K each hit. I would, however, like to see that range brought down. DK's have to be right the flip on top of someone to use Petrify.1 -
Thunderknuckles✭✭✭✭Drakkdjinn wrote: »
And this. You're exactly right, Drak. I get wordy, I know, but allow me another brief example. Several DC and myself were duking it out with several EP last night in Vivec (PC/NA). I had this one player's health down so low there was barely any red visible. One execute and he was down for that fight. In that instant an NPC stunned me. I break free. Instantly that effing NPC stunned me AGAIN even with Immovable up. By this time the enemy player had healed back to full. LOL What a bunch of [snip].
Edited for typo. Anyway, all that to back up what you said, Drak, about CC immunity being borked right now.
[edited for profanity bypass]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 2, 2025 2:25PM0 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭First, fix break free.
Second, make the amount of stamina required to break free from HARD CC be reduced by 50%.
0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Nightblades had two issues in the last patch that killed them: Sloads and rune cage.
Now they have a free pass on sloads thanks to the dev team’s obvious love and incredibly unbalanced bias.
Can anyone guess what’s next on the chopping block? Is it not obvious that every little forum murderblade is going to keep posting these threads until they tear apart rune cage with no recompense to the sorcerer class?
Before anyone cries that I’m a Sorc and obviously wrong because of that... I’ll point out that sloads still stacks and goes through shields.
Recompense would be frags, or maybe streak being unblockable. I have seen sorcs say that they deserve current cage, ignoring all balance whatsoever. It's like me saying my DK deserves infinite power lashes (like there was for a few PTS patches) I don't. Imbalance is imbalance.
Damage increase on frags: they used to do 15K on an armored target and stun. It needs that damage back and the stun. I’d love this so much. Problem is the devs never go back, admit mistakes, and revert a nerf.
By all means, that's 1,5k damage with your 15k (as the nerf was 10% damage) - I'd take that any day over 4-5k Rune Cages.Streak unblockable: Id rather have the cost refunded and not stack if you damage someone with it.
That would be cool as well (atleast the cost refund part), Streak is by far the most enjoyable ability to use on a Sorcerer imo.If ‘dragonbones’ Sorcs were “powerful” (lol reflectable destructive reach spam everywhere), I’d hate to see OP.
They are OP, right now.
One broken ability that is dragging the whole skill floor and ceiling of the class down & causing others to hate the class.
Name of that ability is in the name of this thread, and about 27 other threads.
It was more than just 10% on frags. Let me explain the game mechanics to you:
We had empower, 20% damage off our burst setup
We had sharpened at 5K
We had shadow mundus giving ridiculous crit damage 12%?
We had 10% more damage on a frag.
They hit for 15-16K on heavy armored targets with impen.
This was on a dual wield sword build with amber/Spinner, I’d be glad to send you screenshots of people bitching about it. I can back this up!
Now we’re lucky to hit 6-7K on a frag while running the same *** setup. People think just removing rune cage and adding stun back to frag will fix the class. And it will. For everyone EXCEPT sorcerers.
Again. 6-7K frags. Some people are running more Health Regen than that. So eat my 3K cage until they fix this [snip]
But all of those; Empower, Sharpened, Shadow Mundus etc were changes that affected everyone equally - not sorc changes.
So I guess what I'm a bit confused about is... when people say they want their frag damage/stun back, do they actually mean they want to revert every balance change made to the game since 2016? Or do they want the changes made to Frag specifically in CWC reverted?
I take much bigger crits from Frags btw (10k+ from high dmg builds), but I do know how it is to fight against the meta tank builds - my snipes aren't hitting them much harder than your Frags either.
Big reason why we have this tank meta in the first place is the unreliability of reactive defenses (dodge roll/block), which makes people stack mitigation/health in order to survive.
If you can't kill these tank builds I'd suggest doing what I do on my bow build: leave them alone and kill someone else.
And remember that sorcs aren't the only ones struggling against them.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 2, 2025 2:11PM1 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Nightblades had two issues in the last patch that killed them: Sloads and rune cage.
Now they have a free pass on sloads thanks to the dev team’s obvious love and incredibly unbalanced bias.
Can anyone guess what’s next on the chopping block? Is it not obvious that every little forum murderblade is going to keep posting these threads until they tear apart rune cage with no recompense to the sorcerer class?
Before anyone cries that I’m a Sorc and obviously wrong because of that... I’ll point out that sloads still stacks and goes through shields.
Recompense would be frags, or maybe streak being unblockable. I have seen sorcs say that they deserve current cage, ignoring all balance whatsoever. It's like me saying my DK deserves infinite power lashes (like there was for a few PTS patches) I don't. Imbalance is imbalance.
Damage increase on frags: they used to do 15K on an armored target and stun. It needs that damage back and the stun. I’d love this so much. Problem is the devs never go back, admit mistakes, and revert a nerf.
By all means, that's 1,5k damage with your 15k (as the nerf was 10% damage) - I'd take that any day over 4-5k Rune Cages.Streak unblockable: Id rather have the cost refunded and not stack if you damage someone with it.
That would be cool as well (atleast the cost refund part), Streak is by far the most enjoyable ability to use on a Sorcerer imo.If ‘dragonbones’ Sorcs were “powerful” (lol reflectable destructive reach spam everywhere), I’d hate to see OP.
They are OP, right now.
One broken ability that is dragging the whole skill floor and ceiling of the class down & causing others to hate the class.
Name of that ability is in the name of this thread, and about 27 other threads.
It was more than just 10% on frags. Let me explain the game mechanics to you:
We had empower, 20% damage off our burst setup
We had sharpened at 5K
We had shadow mundus giving ridiculous crit damage 12%?
We had 10% more damage on a frag.
They hit for 15-16K on heavy armored targets with impen.
This was on a dual wield sword build with amber/Spinner, I’d be glad to send you screenshots of people bitching about it. I can back this up!
Now we’re lucky to hit 6-7K on a frag while running the same *** setup. People think just removing rune cage and adding stun back to frag will fix the class. And it will. For everyone EXCEPT sorcerers.
Again. 6-7K frags. Some people are running more Health Regen than that. So eat my 3K cage until they fix this [snip]
But all of those; Empower, Sharpened, Shadow Mundus etc were changes that affected everyone equally - not sorc changes.
So I guess what I'm a bit confused about is... when people say they want their frag damage/stun back, do they actually mean they want to revert every balance change made to the game since 2016? Or do they want the changes made to Frag specifically in CWC reverted?
I take much bigger crits from Frags btw (10k+ from high dmg builds), but I do know how it is to fight against the meta tank builds - my snipes aren't hitting them much harder than your Frags either.
Big reason why we have this tank meta in the first place is the unreliability of reactive defenses (dodge roll/block), which makes people stack mitigation/health in order to survive.
If you can't kill these tank builds I'd suggest doing what I do on my bow build: leave them alone and kill someone else.
And remember that sorcs aren't the only ones struggling against them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jQvcw--v5o
17K Will on full impen.
Sure mechanics changed for everyone, but they didn’t affect everyone in the same exact way. You want to trade me blockable, dodgeable 17K will damage, you can have cage for free.
I don’t hit anything with frag for more than 6-7K unless they’re wearing light, or they’re wearing elemental drain. Even then it’s 8K or so, with an oddball one in a hundred 9K on someone wearing too much well-fitted. (OMG! He hit for 9K! Frags OP! It’s a 9K damage skill!!). That’s with one and a half full damage sets (spinnerplasm).
My point is: That’s not competitive enough even if it had a stun attached to it. It’s a completely different game now.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 2, 2025 2:12PM1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Nightblades had two issues in the last patch that killed them: Sloads and rune cage.
Now they have a free pass on sloads thanks to the dev team’s obvious love and incredibly unbalanced bias.
Can anyone guess what’s next on the chopping block? Is it not obvious that every little forum murderblade is going to keep posting these threads until they tear apart rune cage with no recompense to the sorcerer class?
Before anyone cries that I’m a Sorc and obviously wrong because of that... I’ll point out that sloads still stacks and goes through shields.
Recompense would be frags, or maybe streak being unblockable. I have seen sorcs say that they deserve current cage, ignoring all balance whatsoever. It's like me saying my DK deserves infinite power lashes (like there was for a few PTS patches) I don't. Imbalance is imbalance.
Damage increase on frags: they used to do 15K on an armored target and stun. It needs that damage back and the stun. I’d love this so much. Problem is the devs never go back, admit mistakes, and revert a nerf.
By all means, that's 1,5k damage with your 15k (as the nerf was 10% damage) - I'd take that any day over 4-5k Rune Cages.Streak unblockable: Id rather have the cost refunded and not stack if you damage someone with it.
That would be cool as well (atleast the cost refund part), Streak is by far the most enjoyable ability to use on a Sorcerer imo.If ‘dragonbones’ Sorcs were “powerful” (lol reflectable destructive reach spam everywhere), I’d hate to see OP.
They are OP, right now.
One broken ability that is dragging the whole skill floor and ceiling of the class down & causing others to hate the class.
Name of that ability is in the name of this thread, and about 27 other threads.
It was more than just 10% on frags. Let me explain the game mechanics to you:
We had empower, 20% damage off our burst setup
We had sharpened at 5K
We had shadow mundus giving ridiculous crit damage 12%?
We had 10% more damage on a frag.
They hit for 15-16K on heavy armored targets with impen.
This was on a dual wield sword build with amber/Spinner, I’d be glad to send you screenshots of people bitching about it. I can back this up!
Now we’re lucky to hit 6-7K on a frag while running the same *** setup. People think just removing rune cage and adding stun back to frag will fix the class. And it will. For everyone EXCEPT sorcerers.
Again. 6-7K frags. Some people are running more Health Regen than that. So eat my 3K cage until they fix this [snip]
But all of those; Empower, Sharpened, Shadow Mundus etc were changes that affected everyone equally - not sorc changes.
So I guess what I'm a bit confused about is... when people say they want their frag damage/stun back, do they actually mean they want to revert every balance change made to the game since 2016? Or do they want the changes made to Frag specifically in CWC reverted?
I take much bigger crits from Frags btw (10k+ from high dmg builds), but I do know how it is to fight against the meta tank builds - my snipes aren't hitting them much harder than your Frags either.
Big reason why we have this tank meta in the first place is the unreliability of reactive defenses (dodge roll/block), which makes people stack mitigation/health in order to survive.
If you can't kill these tank builds I'd suggest doing what I do on my bow build: leave them alone and kill someone else.
And remember that sorcs aren't the only ones struggling against them.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jQvcw--v5o
17K Will on full impen.
Sure mechanics changed for everyone, but they didn’t affect everyone in the same exact way. You want to trade me blockable, dodgeable 17K will damage, you can have cage for free.
I don’t hit anything with frag for more than 6-7K unless they’re wearing light, or they’re wearing elemental drain. Even then it’s 8K or so, with an oddball one in a hundred 9K on someone wearing too much well-fitted. (OMG! He hit for 9K! Frags OP! It’s a 9K damage skill!!). That’s with one and a half full damage sets (spinnerplasm).
My point is: That’s not competitive enough even if it had a stun attached to it. It’s a completely different game now.
Yeah, that's the highest damage single target projectile in the entire game hitting a target with +20% damage from Incap.
Let's say I were to use 5 Spinner 5 Necro 2 Skoria 5/1/1 on both Sorc & NB.
Both have 24% Master-at-Arms & 13% Elemental Expert.
Both have 15 529 penetration (with Elemental Drain)
Sorc gets a 19 736 tooltip | 12 733+(24%+13%+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc Extra]=55%) on Frag
NB gets a 29 562 tooltip | 17 088+(24%+13%+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap]=73%) on Assassin's Will
Sorc's crit modifier is +72%, NB's 82% (thanks to Hemorrhage passive), so...
Frag=33 945
Assassin's Will=53 802
Let's say target has 22k spell resistance (6471 after penetration), 23% Ironclad, 13% Elemental Defender & 50% crit resistance
Damage taken from Frag would be 7276
Damage taken from Assassin's Will would be 11 792
But keep in mind that your burst isn't just Frags, it's also Meteor, Curse, Rune Cage, Wrath - where as magblade burst is only Incap+Merciless as they don't have any delayed burst.
If we count the Incap, the total burst would be:
8211 (Incap damage)+11 792(Assassin's Will)=20 003
Where as sorc burst would be:
7276 (Frag)+5870 (Curse damage)+9071 (Meteor damage)+3406 (Rune Cage damage)=25 623 ...assuming target doesn't fall into Wrath range.
+light attacks/enchants which are about the same for both and should total another 3-4k damage.
But yeah, of course NB burst is a lot faster to land (it's two buttons atm lol).
Btw if you look at that video you posted, pretty much every kill that NB got was with the Incap stun->Merciless before target can CC Break+dodge/block. Good thing that cheese is getting patched out...
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 2, 2025 2:12PM1 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
So eat my 3K cage until they fix this [snip]
You mean, 2085?
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 2, 2025 2:13PMVaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO1 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Nightblades had two issues in the last patch that killed them: Sloads and rune cage.
Now they have a free pass on sloads thanks to the dev team’s obvious love and incredibly unbalanced bias.
Can anyone guess what’s next on the chopping block? Is it not obvious that every little forum murderblade is going to keep posting these threads until they tear apart rune cage with no recompense to the sorcerer class?
Before anyone cries that I’m a Sorc and obviously wrong because of that... I’ll point out that sloads still stacks and goes through shields.
Recompense would be frags, or maybe streak being unblockable. I have seen sorcs say that they deserve current cage, ignoring all balance whatsoever. It's like me saying my DK deserves infinite power lashes (like there was for a few PTS patches) I don't. Imbalance is imbalance.
Damage increase on frags: they used to do 15K on an armored target and stun. It needs that damage back and the stun. I’d love this so much. Problem is the devs never go back, admit mistakes, and revert a nerf.
By all means, that's 1,5k damage with your 15k (as the nerf was 10% damage) - I'd take that any day over 4-5k Rune Cages.Streak unblockable: Id rather have the cost refunded and not stack if you damage someone with it.
That would be cool as well (atleast the cost refund part), Streak is by far the most enjoyable ability to use on a Sorcerer imo.If ‘dragonbones’ Sorcs were “powerful” (lol reflectable destructive reach spam everywhere), I’d hate to see OP.
They are OP, right now.
One broken ability that is dragging the whole skill floor and ceiling of the class down & causing others to hate the class.
Name of that ability is in the name of this thread, and about 27 other threads.
It was more than just 10% on frags. Let me explain the game mechanics to you:
We had empower, 20% damage off our burst setup
We had sharpened at 5K
We had shadow mundus giving ridiculous crit damage 12%?
We had 10% more damage on a frag.
They hit for 15-16K on heavy armored targets with impen.
This was on a dual wield sword build with amber/Spinner, I’d be glad to send you screenshots of people bitching about it. I can back this up!
Now we’re lucky to hit 6-7K on a frag while running the same *** setup. People think just removing rune cage and adding stun back to frag will fix the class. And it will. For everyone EXCEPT sorcerers.
Again. 6-7K frags. Some people are running more Health Regen than that. So eat my 3K cage until they fix this [snip]
But all of those; Empower, Sharpened, Shadow Mundus etc were changes that affected everyone equally - not sorc changes.
So I guess what I'm a bit confused about is... when people say they want their frag damage/stun back, do they actually mean they want to revert every balance change made to the game since 2016? Or do they want the changes made to Frag specifically in CWC reverted?
I take much bigger crits from Frags btw (10k+ from high dmg builds), but I do know how it is to fight against the meta tank builds - my snipes aren't hitting them much harder than your Frags either.
Big reason why we have this tank meta in the first place is the unreliability of reactive defenses (dodge roll/block), which makes people stack mitigation/health in order to survive.
If you can't kill these tank builds I'd suggest doing what I do on my bow build: leave them alone and kill someone else.
And remember that sorcs aren't the only ones struggling against them.
When people say they want their frag/damage back they mean a lot of stuff:
1) They want to be back to playing a sorc. We rolled sorcs (I did in closed beta!) BECAUSE of the various mechanics centered around and involving Crystal Frags. Beginning with PvE.
ZOS, under Wrobel "era", relentlessy destroyed classes flavour and uniqueness levelling everyone down, on the same trite handful of common mechanics. Did ESO balance improve? NO! Did ESO become more fun, when playing magsorc == magblade in PvE? NO!
2) Crystal frags were the class signature skill and were meant to be the "big bang" that mages get in every MMO. With few swift moves, Wrobel made sorcs a bland piece of boring rubbish.
3) "Bring back" means: we could kill stuff with that. No matter the actual numbers, we want to be able to kill stuff with that again. Mages = big ranged flashy boom, not some cheesy CC, cheesy DoT and/or cheesy additional garbage.
Whether "kill stuff again" means making frags hit for 6k, 10k or 20k is irrelevant. Kill stuff again means, "bring back a fun and unique gameplay that - when played correctly - could lead to the enemy death".
About the "much bigger crits", I rarely get more than 7k and I am fairly sure I get more than 7k only because people slotted non impenetrable stuff and / or are PvE specced and PvE geared.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 2, 2025 2:14PMVaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO2 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Nightblades had two issues in the last patch that killed them: Sloads and rune cage.
Now they have a free pass on sloads thanks to the dev team’s obvious love and incredibly unbalanced bias.
Can anyone guess what’s next on the chopping block? Is it not obvious that every little forum murderblade is going to keep posting these threads until they tear apart rune cage with no recompense to the sorcerer class?
Before anyone cries that I’m a Sorc and obviously wrong because of that... I’ll point out that sloads still stacks and goes through shields.
Recompense would be frags, or maybe streak being unblockable. I have seen sorcs say that they deserve current cage, ignoring all balance whatsoever. It's like me saying my DK deserves infinite power lashes (like there was for a few PTS patches) I don't. Imbalance is imbalance.
Damage increase on frags: they used to do 15K on an armored target and stun. It needs that damage back and the stun. I’d love this so much. Problem is the devs never go back, admit mistakes, and revert a nerf.
By all means, that's 1,5k damage with your 15k (as the nerf was 10% damage) - I'd take that any day over 4-5k Rune Cages.Streak unblockable: Id rather have the cost refunded and not stack if you damage someone with it.
That would be cool as well (atleast the cost refund part), Streak is by far the most enjoyable ability to use on a Sorcerer imo.If ‘dragonbones’ Sorcs were “powerful” (lol reflectable destructive reach spam everywhere), I’d hate to see OP.
They are OP, right now.
One broken ability that is dragging the whole skill floor and ceiling of the class down & causing others to hate the class.
Name of that ability is in the name of this thread, and about 27 other threads.
It was more than just 10% on frags. Let me explain the game mechanics to you:
We had empower, 20% damage off our burst setup
We had sharpened at 5K
We had shadow mundus giving ridiculous crit damage 12%?
We had 10% more damage on a frag.
They hit for 15-16K on heavy armored targets with impen.
This was on a dual wield sword build with amber/Spinner, I’d be glad to send you screenshots of people bitching about it. I can back this up!
Now we’re lucky to hit 6-7K on a frag while running the same *** setup. People think just removing rune cage and adding stun back to frag will fix the class. And it will. For everyone EXCEPT sorcerers.
Again. 6-7K frags. Some people are running more Health Regen than that. So eat my 3K cage until they fix this [snip]
But all of those; Empower, Sharpened, Shadow Mundus etc were changes that affected everyone equally - not sorc changes.
So I guess what I'm a bit confused about is... when people say they want their frag damage/stun back, do they actually mean they want to revert every balance change made to the game since 2016? Or do they want the changes made to Frag specifically in CWC reverted?
I take much bigger crits from Frags btw (10k+ from high dmg builds), but I do know how it is to fight against the meta tank builds - my snipes aren't hitting them much harder than your Frags either.
Big reason why we have this tank meta in the first place is the unreliability of reactive defenses (dodge roll/block), which makes people stack mitigation/health in order to survive.
If you can't kill these tank builds I'd suggest doing what I do on my bow build: leave them alone and kill someone else.
And remember that sorcs aren't the only ones struggling against them.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jQvcw--v5o
17K Will on full impen.
Sure mechanics changed for everyone, but they didn’t affect everyone in the same exact way. You want to trade me blockable, dodgeable 17K will damage, you can have cage for free.
I don’t hit anything with frag for more than 6-7K unless they’re wearing light, or they’re wearing elemental drain. Even then it’s 8K or so, with an oddball one in a hundred 9K on someone wearing too much well-fitted. (OMG! He hit for 9K! Frags OP! It’s a 9K damage skill!!). That’s with one and a half full damage sets (spinnerplasm).
My point is: That’s not competitive enough even if it had a stun attached to it. It’s a completely different game now.
Lmao. You link a duel video while magsorc has the by far most cancerous duel spec in the game which is banned in every tournament and which people refuse to duel at this point. How many pc's did you throw out of your window since frags got nerfed? Sorc is super strong right now, it's time to get over your frag nerf.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 2, 2025 2:15PMI used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.2 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Ragnaroek93
The question is what will be left of "super strong" come 4.1.5. Already people are rallying for further nerfs (I agree that the -20% damage nerf on RC doesn't help anyone, but it's the ZOS way of doing things). I hope my prediction from April 2018 doesn't turn into reality.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Nightblades had two issues in the last patch that killed them: Sloads and rune cage.
Now they have a free pass on sloads thanks to the dev team’s obvious love and incredibly unbalanced bias.
Can anyone guess what’s next on the chopping block? Is it not obvious that every little forum murderblade is going to keep posting these threads until they tear apart rune cage with no recompense to the sorcerer class?
Before anyone cries that I’m a Sorc and obviously wrong because of that... I’ll point out that sloads still stacks and goes through shields.
Recompense would be frags, or maybe streak being unblockable. I have seen sorcs say that they deserve current cage, ignoring all balance whatsoever. It's like me saying my DK deserves infinite power lashes (like there was for a few PTS patches) I don't. Imbalance is imbalance.
Damage increase on frags: they used to do 15K on an armored target and stun. It needs that damage back and the stun. I’d love this so much. Problem is the devs never go back, admit mistakes, and revert a nerf.
By all means, that's 1,5k damage with your 15k (as the nerf was 10% damage) - I'd take that any day over 4-5k Rune Cages.Streak unblockable: Id rather have the cost refunded and not stack if you damage someone with it.
That would be cool as well (atleast the cost refund part), Streak is by far the most enjoyable ability to use on a Sorcerer imo.If ‘dragonbones’ Sorcs were “powerful” (lol reflectable destructive reach spam everywhere), I’d hate to see OP.
They are OP, right now.
One broken ability that is dragging the whole skill floor and ceiling of the class down & causing others to hate the class.
Name of that ability is in the name of this thread, and about 27 other threads.
It was more than just 10% on frags. Let me explain the game mechanics to you:
We had empower, 20% damage off our burst setup
We had sharpened at 5K
We had shadow mundus giving ridiculous crit damage 12%?
We had 10% more damage on a frag.
They hit for 15-16K on heavy armored targets with impen.
This was on a dual wield sword build with amber/Spinner, I’d be glad to send you screenshots of people bitching about it. I can back this up!
Now we’re lucky to hit 6-7K on a frag while running the same *** setup. People think just removing rune cage and adding stun back to frag will fix the class. And it will. For everyone EXCEPT sorcerers.
Again. 6-7K frags. Some people are running more Health Regen than that. So eat my 3K cage until they fix this [snip]
But all of those; Empower, Sharpened, Shadow Mundus etc were changes that affected everyone equally - not sorc changes.
So I guess what I'm a bit confused about is... when people say they want their frag damage/stun back, do they actually mean they want to revert every balance change made to the game since 2016? Or do they want the changes made to Frag specifically in CWC reverted?
I take much bigger crits from Frags btw (10k+ from high dmg builds), but I do know how it is to fight against the meta tank builds - my snipes aren't hitting them much harder than your Frags either.
Big reason why we have this tank meta in the first place is the unreliability of reactive defenses (dodge roll/block), which makes people stack mitigation/health in order to survive.
If you can't kill these tank builds I'd suggest doing what I do on my bow build: leave them alone and kill someone else.
And remember that sorcs aren't the only ones struggling against them.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jQvcw--v5o
17K Will on full impen.
Sure mechanics changed for everyone, but they didn’t affect everyone in the same exact way. You want to trade me blockable, dodgeable 17K will damage, you can have cage for free.
I don’t hit anything with frag for more than 6-7K unless they’re wearing light, or they’re wearing elemental drain. Even then it’s 8K or so, with an oddball one in a hundred 9K on someone wearing too much well-fitted. (OMG! He hit for 9K! Frags OP! It’s a 9K damage skill!!). That’s with one and a half full damage sets (spinnerplasm).
My point is: That’s not competitive enough even if it had a stun attached to it. It’s a completely different game now.
Yeah, that's the highest damage single target projectile in the entire game hitting a target with +20% damage from Incap.
Let's say I were to use 5 Spinner 5 Necro 2 Skoria 5/1/1 on both Sorc & NB.
Both have 24% Master-at-Arms & 13% Elemental Expert.
Both have 15 529 penetration (with Elemental Drain)
Sorc gets a 19 736 tooltip | 12 733+(24%+13%+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc Extra]=55%) on Frag
NB gets a 29 562 tooltip | 17 088+(24%+13%+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap]=73%) on Assassin's Will
Sorc's crit modifier is +72%, NB's 82% (thanks to Hemorrhage passive), so...
Frag=33 945
Assassin's Will=53 802
Let's say target has 22k spell resistance (6471 after penetration), 23% Ironclad, 13% Elemental Defender & 50% crit resistance
Damage taken from Frag would be 7276
Damage taken from Assassin's Will would be 11 792
But keep in mind that your burst isn't just Frags, it's also Meteor, Curse, Rune Cage, Wrath - where as magblade burst is only Incap+Merciless as they don't have any delayed burst.
If we count the Incap, the total burst would be:
8211 (Incap damage)+11 792(Assassin's Will)=20 003
Where as sorc burst would be:
7276 (Frag)+5870 (Curse damage)+9071 (Meteor damage)+3406 (Rune Cage damage)=25 623 ...assuming target doesn't fall into Wrath range.
+light attacks/enchants which are about the same for both and should total another 3-4k damage.
But yeah, of course NB burst is a lot faster to land (it's two buttons atm lol).
Btw if you look at that video you posted, pretty much every kill that NB got was with the Incap stun->Merciless before target can CC Break+dodge/block. Good thing that cheese is getting patched out...
Every time I see that 7K frag I want to unsubscribe and leave angry rants in the “Why are you unsubscribing from our game?” comment section.
I’ll point out a few things here:
1. You’re comparing FIVE GCD worth of Sorc burst to TWO GCD worth of nightblade. Admittedly nightblades have to light attack to build that up, but you can preload that on an NPC. Or another potato. Or heck, even use the psijic heal light attack on a buddy. Lel.
2. You’re comparing an ultimate that costs TWICE what incap does. So you really should add the damage from a second incap in there.
3. Yes you should count the 20% empower on nightblade damage, I wish I had that.
I’m just going to leave now, I’m getting so pissed off at ZOS nonsense (not you man!) [snip]
[edited for bashing & to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 2, 2025 2:16PM4 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@Ragnaroek93
The question is what will be left of "super strong" come 4.1.5. Already people are rallying for further nerfs (I agree that the -20% damage nerf on RC doesn't help anyone, but it's the ZOS way of doing things). I hope my prediction from April 2018 doesn't turn into reality.
I'm not even for sorc nerfs, it's the sorc community who is hostile towards all other classes (did you know that the nbs did nerf fragments and not ZOS?).I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.1 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »@Ragnaroek93
The question is what will be left of "super strong" come 4.1.5. Already people are rallying for further nerfs (I agree that the -20% damage nerf on RC doesn't help anyone, but it's the ZOS way of doing things). I hope my prediction from April 2018 doesn't turn into reality.
I'm not even for sorc nerfs, it's the sorc community who is hostile towards all other classes (did you know that the nbs did nerf fragments and not ZOS?).
I’ll be arguing for DK buffs henceforth. That’s what I’m gonna play next patch.
Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.1 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So cage got a damage buff, people lose their mind. Cage gets a 20% damage Nerf and damage is not the issue?
Which is it? These threads make no sense now.
Love that you moan about getting hit with a frag too hilarious. It's been nerfed to oblivion (-10%/-10%& stun/-20% empower which more than equates to the damage added to cage)
They'd whine even if sorcs could only light attack. "Unfair light attack FROM 5000m WHAAAAA!!!! NERFFFFFF!!!!!"
It's the same terribads I had to endure in WoW, SWTOR, GW2 and Warhammer Online. Some even kept their nickname from those days on this forum (and put their nationality in signature: by that + their nickname + their unique, never changing, whining style I recognize them!).
Some of them are even crying on Star Citizen forums.
They are just a lost cause. Hopeless.
Would love to know which classes you thought didn’t need nerfs in swtor, gw2, and WARhttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos0 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »@Ragnaroek93
The question is what will be left of "super strong" come 4.1.5. Already people are rallying for further nerfs (I agree that the -20% damage nerf on RC doesn't help anyone, but it's the ZOS way of doing things). I hope my prediction from April 2018 doesn't turn into reality.
I'm not even for sorc nerfs, it's the sorc community who is hostile towards all other classes (did you know that the nbs did nerf fragments and not ZOS?).
Hostile?! I'll show you Hostile!!
Gr!
Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.1 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »@Ragnaroek93
The question is what will be left of "super strong" come 4.1.5. Already people are rallying for further nerfs (I agree that the -20% damage nerf on RC doesn't help anyone, but it's the ZOS way of doing things). I hope my prediction from April 2018 doesn't turn into reality.
I'm not even for sorc nerfs, it's the sorc community who is hostile towards all other classes (did you know that the nbs did nerf fragments and not ZOS?).
Hostile?! I'll show you Hostile!!
Gr!
Not you, the usual sorc versions of dwemer_paleogolist :PI used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.1 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »@Ragnaroek93
The question is what will be left of "super strong" come 4.1.5. Already people are rallying for further nerfs (I agree that the -20% damage nerf on RC doesn't help anyone, but it's the ZOS way of doing things). I hope my prediction from April 2018 doesn't turn into reality.
I'm not even for sorc nerfs, it's the sorc community who is hostile towards all other classes (did you know that the nbs did nerf fragments and not ZOS?).
Hostile?! I'll show you Hostile!!
Gr!
Not you, the usual sorc versions of dwemer_paleogolist :P
Ouch. runs for cover...Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.1 -
Drakkdjinn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Thunderknuckles wrote: »Drakkdjinn wrote: »
And this. You're exactly right, Drak. I get wordy, I know, but allow me another brief example. Several DC and myself were duking it out with several EP last night in Vivec (PC/NA). I had this one player's health down so low there was barely any red visible. One execute and he was down for that fight. In that instant an NPC stunned me. I break free. Instantly that effing NPC stunned me AGAIN even with Immovable up. By this time the enemy player had healed back to full. LOL What a bunch of [snip].
Edited for typo. Anyway, all that to back up what you said, Drak, about CC immunity being borked right now.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 2, 2025 2:17PM0 -
Hutch679✭✭✭✭✭
✭Reduce the range to 15-20m, reduce the stun duration to 3 seconds. Increase the speed of the animation so it's more difficult to time with haunting curse/meteor combo. Reduce damage by 20%. That's it. Idk why people are trying to get so out of the box with it.0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »@Ragnaroek93
The question is what will be left of "super strong" come 4.1.5. Already people are rallying for further nerfs (I agree that the -20% damage nerf on RC doesn't help anyone, but it's the ZOS way of doing things). I hope my prediction from April 2018 doesn't turn into reality.
I'm not even for sorc nerfs, it's the sorc community who is hostile towards all other classes (did you know that the nbs did nerf fragments and not ZOS?).
No. NB’s didn’t nerf sorc, [snip]
Look at what ZOS did the last 2-3 patches [snip];
- The bird nerf - dodgeable
- The whip nerf - dodgeable
- The nerf to shalks - no more stuns for warden lol
- The nerf to wrath - dodgeable
- The nerf to soul assault - cloakable and less snare
- The nerf to sloads - free pass for nightblades!
- Detect pots leave an indicator nightblades can see
- Nightblades can jump to their shade, free escape
- Cage damage nerf - it wasn’t NEARLY enough for nightblades, so they’re throwing a temper tantrum
Every *** patch is crafted to make the game more fun for the devs special little Murderblades - and LESS so for everyone ELSE in the *** game.
[snip]
[edited for bashing & profanity bypass]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 2, 2025 2:19PM7 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭NBs have been among the very best PvP classes since Imperial City.
[snip]
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 2, 2025 2:19PM2 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »@Ragnaroek93
The question is what will be left of "super strong" come 4.1.5. Already people are rallying for further nerfs (I agree that the -20% damage nerf on RC doesn't help anyone, but it's the ZOS way of doing things). I hope my prediction from April 2018 doesn't turn into reality.
I'm not even for sorc nerfs, it's the sorc community who is hostile towards all other classes (did you know that the nbs did nerf fragments and not ZOS?).
No. NB’s didn’t nerf sorc, [snip]
Look at what ZOS did the last 2-3 patches [snip];
- The bird nerf - dodgeable
- The whip nerf - dodgeable
- The nerf to shalks - no more stuns for warden lol
- The nerf to wrath - dodgeable
- The nerf to soul assault - cloakable and less snare
- The nerf to sloads - free pass for nightblades!
- Detect pots leave an indicator nightblades can see
- Nightblades can jump to their shade, free escape
- Cage damage nerf - it wasn’t NEARLY enough for nightblades, so they’re throwing a temper tantrum
Every *** patch is crafted to make the game more fun for the devs special little Murderblades - and LESS so for everyone ELSE in the *** game.
[snip]
Most of what you listed are changes to medium armor, not NB.
Medium armor is focused on damage avoidance - obviously it starts underperforming when that is no longer possible.
Which once again is why we see tank builds everywhere.
Also while you're cherrypicking changes that affected NB (and more generally: medium armor builds in most cases), you might want to look at things like:- Removal of stealth damage modifier.
- Proc set nerfs.
- Incap stun change on PTS.
- Empower change (big impact on many NB gank builds)
- Balorgh on PTS=even more damage to Rune Cage Meteor combo.
- Bombard/Steel Tornado made undodgeable.
etc.
Soul Assault has always been cloakable btw (they later added 2s cloak lockdown at the start of the channel). Meteor used to be as well, and if we go way back NBs used to be able to get rid of every debuff sorc put on them by cloaking.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 2, 2025 2:20PM0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Soul Strike? Doubt it. Dawnbreaker was better.
But now that you mention it, Shieldbreaker is still there, and Sloads, too. Latter will - of course - get tuned to not touch the poor, poor NBs anymore.
And you ask why we sorcs speak up so much? It because of biased [snip] like that.
[edited for profanity bypass]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 2, 2025 2:21PM0 -
OGLezard✭✭✭✭✭
✭irstarkey57 wrote: »I killed players rampantly on my sorc since the dawn of eso, and I will continue to do so though all these terribads want the class gutted and turned into free ap.
My sorc has seen the best of times and the worst of times. Lately it just seems like people want nerf after nerf for them. I say bring it on. Until you guys finally see sorcs with skills that shoot hugs and kisses and tiny little hearts, I doubt you will ever be happy. Even then I can see a world where they still cry nerf sorc.
One would think in a world of countless stuns/hard cc people would actually use immovable pots lol
That is all, carry on
Sorry man but I’ve played sorc too. Most everyone agrees it’s ridiculous. I’m sure you do too. Also, what you do for the other 35 seconds imov pot isn’t up. There is always one of you...
Sorc is not ridiculous anymore. It was insane a long time ago, but against bad players it can seem insane. Against good players/decent players, I can drop pretty quick and do often.
Now if I want to throw in a defensive set people seem to have long forgotten about I can and then it would drive people up the wall. But I miss out on too much damage in this meta.
Do I think some things could use an adjustment? Yes, ofc. Do I want then to do it? No, cuz zos has a way of over nerfing (over balancing) things and then leaving them like that for months.
I suppose when the immov pot runs out, you might have to play a little more defensively. Or, like I do, time the immov pot once you see curse applied to you. Works more often than not.
But to each their own, everyone has different ways of doing things.
0