Rune Prison “Nerf” is useless

OGLezard · July 2018

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

One would think in a world of countless stuns/hard cc people would actually use immovable pots lol

What if I told you that even if you do, they don't work consistently this patch...

I would say that cc immunity hardly works most the time lolololol

Brutusmax1mus · July 2018

It's bad, but nothing compared to the broken, awful pvp design that is mages wrath and implosion. I think it is the damage behind RC that's the issue. It literally makes mages wrath go off every combo.

My guild mate went 75-3 on his sorc yesterday. It needs addressing.

Strider__Roshin · July 2018

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

It's bad, but nothing compared to the broken, awful pvp design that is mages wrath and implosion. I think it is the damage behind RC that's the issue. It literally makes mages wrath go off every combo.

My guild mate went 75-3 on his sorc yesterday. It needs addressing.

It's really ridiculous.

Irylia · July 2018

ItsNebula wrote: »

I main a MagSorc, and personally.. I think the skill is op, and isn’t op. Isn’t OP in a way as it’s the only reliable CC sorcs have, and deals very low damage... if it hits you hard, you’re bad. Simple as that. However, it’s defiantly bugged, when trying to break free. 5 second stun is perfectly fine, but the fact that you can’t always break free is what makes it op.
Hell, Sorc v Sorc is aids... if it’s 2 good sorcs. As it’s pretty much a sustain fight and who who’s the most stam. Or who won’t get bugged.

But 80% of the sorcs I personally encounter in PvP suck, as there shields are low, and a curse can take out harness and hardened pretty much.

Sorc is definitely a hard class to play... in the way of keeping up shields every 6 seconds and landing a burst. If you got 2+ players on you it can be pretty hard, as you really have to watch your shields as they drain from the player who’s damaging you, while lining your burst on your tab target.

Sorc 1vX is near impossible unless you’re in a tight spot where YOU control the fight with LOS or on the side of a mountain. Mountains by Arrius are amazing for sorcs as you can stream to the next cliff and get a HUGE advantage.

You don't suddenly become a sorc main just because you picked it up at the start of a patch.
Go back to DK.

As for rune cage and all the *** sorcs out there that now get carried by it.
Rune cage IS over performing and should not be the way we apply a stun in our combo.

If you want an unblockable/undodgeable stun put it on streak so we have to at least be within range/aim/turn around after the cast.

Give us back frag dmg/stun. Move onto other sorc issues.

Lord-Otto · July 2018

Streak, huh?
Been advocating for an unblockable Streak since Curse was made unblockable. You're late, Ir, like wayyy late.
IF you wanna make Streak the deciding CC again, you would HAVE to correct the clunkiness on slopes, as in positioning your feet on the ground after Streak. Otherwise, you'll just waste your ult to a failing move half of the time.
Oh, and more turn speed on console. At the moment, people can break Streak before you can turn around.
I doubt ZOS will go to that length...

Minalan · July 2018

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Streak, huh?
Been advocating for an unblockable Streak since Curse was made unblockable. You're late, Ir, like wayyy late.
IF you wanna make Streak the deciding CC again, you would HAVE to correct the clunkiness on slopes, as in positioning your feet on the ground after Streak. Otherwise, you'll just waste your ult to a failing move half of the time.
Oh, and more turn speed on console. At the moment, people can break Streak before you can turn around.
I doubt ZOS will go to that length...

Don’t forget the cost increase, the delay, the loss of momentum, etc.

Lord-Otto · July 2018

Minalan wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Streak, huh?
Been advocating for an unblockable Streak since Curse was made unblockable. You're late, Ir, like wayyy late.
IF you wanna make Streak the deciding CC again, you would HAVE to correct the clunkiness on slopes, as in positioning your feet on the ground after Streak. Otherwise, you'll just waste your ult to a failing move half of the time.
Oh, and more turn speed on console. At the moment, people can break Streak before you can turn around.
I doubt ZOS will go to that length...

Don’t forget the cost increase, the delay, the loss of momentum, etc.

Don't remind me...
(<_>)

Durham · July 2018

jaws343 wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

So where are the complaints about Mass Hysteria and Fossilize? Oh. The range. Sure. But the range isnt an issue when you can’t break free in the first place.

And then there are knockbacks or skills that have a stun and a knockback. I don’t see complaints about those either although they’re even harder to break free reliably.

CC mechanics are broken all across the game. But let’s nerf Sorc to fix that.

You have to take into account how each of those classes play.

First Nightblades:
Following Fear it'll be followed by Incap to the spectral bow and then to reverse slice or surprise attack. The Incap will be a guaranteed hit if your opponent is block cancelling their attacks. However, you'll have enough time to CC break and avoid/defend against all of the following attacks. Yes, fear is unavoidable but there's still plenty of room for counterplay. A magblade could also do a meteor, fear, Spectral bow combo; and honestly this is almost as deadly as the Rune Cage combo that sorcs have.

DKs:
Fossilize is followed by either Take Flight then flame lash or flame lash then power lash. The Take Flight or the initial Flame Lash will be the guarantee hit. A more deadly combo is to use meteor, cast Fossilize then flame lash followed by power lash. In this example meteor, and flame lash will be guaranteed, but not the following power lash. There's still counterplay.

Magsorcs:
Haunting Curse is initialized followed Fury then Rune Cage into a Crystal Frag. Now when you look at this setup what's different? Unlike the other classes all of the burst for the sorc goes off at the same time. Haunting Curse goes off as Frag lands, and it this puts you into the 20% health threshold Fury auto kills you. Now put meteor into the fix and this combo will be a guarantee kill against tanks. And unlike NBs and DKs this can be done at range.

The only classes that should have access unavoidable CCs are those with sequential burst; not the delayed burst that magsorcs have. It removes any potential for counterplay.

I don't know what tanks you face in Cyrodil but the ones I see have 40K+ health and high resistances+healing. That burst combo isn't going to take them out before they CC break and heal all the way back to full health unless at least 2 players are also doing it at the same time. Medium armor builds, sure. Light armor builds before they have a chance to refresh shields, sure. Heavy armor DD bulds, maybe. But not actual tank builds.

And what is the other option for a Sorc. Everything in their toolkit can be dodged except curse. Everything. And with the next patch that also includes the execute portion of wrath. Take out rune cage and sorcs will be pretty useless in PVP against many build types.

Tanks in Cyrodil are last year they are crap these days.. Even one totally tanked out serves almost no purpose maybe picking flowers .. Tanks are the last things you target.. So you want to have power to totally burst down a full out 40k tank now .. wow .. this is why PVP is so bad at the moment.. look around you out there.. nothing but sorcs and nightblades.. Temps are in short supply and endagered outside of groups.. DKs are most just shooting targets now and the DK numbers have also dropped...

If everyone one is playing 2 classes something is wrong...

GawdSB · July 2018

On top of it being OP it’s bugged. You can’t even cc break it right away, you have to sit there for a while just to break lose, by that time you’re almost or already dead.

Biro123 · July 2018

Durham wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

So where are the complaints about Mass Hysteria and Fossilize? Oh. The range. Sure. But the range isnt an issue when you can’t break free in the first place.

And then there are knockbacks or skills that have a stun and a knockback. I don’t see complaints about those either although they’re even harder to break free reliably.

CC mechanics are broken all across the game. But let’s nerf Sorc to fix that.

You have to take into account how each of those classes play.

First Nightblades:
Following Fear it'll be followed by Incap to the spectral bow and then to reverse slice or surprise attack. The Incap will be a guaranteed hit if your opponent is block cancelling their attacks. However, you'll have enough time to CC break and avoid/defend against all of the following attacks. Yes, fear is unavoidable but there's still plenty of room for counterplay. A magblade could also do a meteor, fear, Spectral bow combo; and honestly this is almost as deadly as the Rune Cage combo that sorcs have.

DKs:
Fossilize is followed by either Take Flight then flame lash or flame lash then power lash. The Take Flight or the initial Flame Lash will be the guarantee hit. A more deadly combo is to use meteor, cast Fossilize then flame lash followed by power lash. In this example meteor, and flame lash will be guaranteed, but not the following power lash. There's still counterplay.

Magsorcs:
Haunting Curse is initialized followed Fury then Rune Cage into a Crystal Frag. Now when you look at this setup what's different? Unlike the other classes all of the burst for the sorc goes off at the same time. Haunting Curse goes off as Frag lands, and it this puts you into the 20% health threshold Fury auto kills you. Now put meteor into the fix and this combo will be a guarantee kill against tanks. And unlike NBs and DKs this can be done at range.

The only classes that should have access unavoidable CCs are those with sequential burst; not the delayed burst that magsorcs have. It removes any potential for counterplay.

I don't know what tanks you face in Cyrodil but the ones I see have 40K+ health and high resistances+healing. That burst combo isn't going to take them out before they CC break and heal all the way back to full health unless at least 2 players are also doing it at the same time. Medium armor builds, sure. Light armor builds before they have a chance to refresh shields, sure. Heavy armor DD bulds, maybe. But not actual tank builds.

And what is the other option for a Sorc. Everything in their toolkit can be dodged except curse. Everything. And with the next patch that also includes the execute portion of wrath. Take out rune cage and sorcs will be pretty useless in PVP against many build types.

Tanks in Cyrodil are last year they are crap these days.. Even one totally tanked out serves almost no purpose maybe picking flowers .. Tanks are the last things you target.. So you want to have power to totally burst down a full out 40k tank now .. wow .. this is why PVP is so bad at the moment.. look around you out there.. nothing but sorcs and nightblades.. Temps are in short supply and endagered outside of groups.. DKs are most just shooting targets now and the DK numbers have also dropped...

If everyone one is playing 2 classes something is wrong...

I still see plenty of DK's and stamdens in small-group play (some templars too, but not so much)

White wabbit · July 2018

Either fix it so you can break it or get rid of the skill

Micah_Bayer · July 2018

LjAnimalchin wrote: »

I didn't think there was actually sorcs out here that think sorc is hard to play. It's by far the easiest class for PvP. There are so many things you don't even have to worry about as a sorc. In terms of brain-dead playstyles magsorc is number 1. I literally hop on my sorc and slay people without even thinking about it because they can't avoid my burst. I can have insane mobility and tankiness and the best burst in the game, all from range.. everything about sorc is easy mode. Go run around solo on a mag DK or a stamplar or maybe a magblade and then come back and tell us if sorc is hard to play.

Easy to play, hard to master. As every class is.

elijafire · July 2018

Yeah they do this a lot, do superficial nerfs to an insanely OP class in order to placate the masses. Get used to it.

Ranger209 · July 2018

Minalan wrote: »

Cage tooltip is 8K, it can be used only when the target isn’t CC immune.

This is a totally underestimated aspect of cage. I can't tell you how many times I have scanned through a group of 10 opponents and could not find one that I could cast it on because they were all CC immune. There is counter play to cage, forward momentum, cc immune pots, etc. If you are immune to CC it can not be cast on you.

Beardimus · July 2018

Ranger209 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Cage tooltip is 8K, it can be used only when the target isn’t CC immune.

This is a totally underestimated aspect of cage. I can't tell you how many times I have scanned through a group of 10 opponents and could not find one that I could cast it on because they were all CC immune. There is counter play to cage, forward momentum, cc immune pots, etc. If you are immune to CC it can not be cast on you.

Spot on. But the people moaning about sorcs seem to ignore this, and the rest of the advice. [snip]

The skill not firing is a nightmare in intense combat, in particular on console when there's lag anyway and you hitting the button in vain.

[edited for baiting]

Biro123 · July 2018

Beardimus wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Cage tooltip is 8K, it can be used only when the target isn’t CC immune.

This is a totally underestimated aspect of cage. I can't tell you how many times I have scanned through a group of 10 opponents and could not find one that I could cast it on because they were all CC immune. There is counter play to cage, forward momentum, cc immune pots, etc. If you are immune to CC it can not be cast on you.

Spot on. But the people moaning about sorcs seem to ignore this, and the rest of the advice. [snip]

The skill not firing is a nightmare in intense combat, in particular on console when there's lag anyway and you hitting the button in vain.

And the more people using it the worse it is. I even stopped using it this patch for that very reason.

[edited to remove quote]

Lord-Otto · July 2018

Biro123 wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Cage tooltip is 8K, it can be used only when the target isn’t CC immune.

This is a totally underestimated aspect of cage. I can't tell you how many times I have scanned through a group of 10 opponents and could not find one that I could cast it on because they were all CC immune. There is counter play to cage, forward momentum, cc immune pots, etc. If you are immune to CC it can not be cast on you.

Spot on. But the people moaning about sorcs seem to ignore this, and the rest of the advice. [snip]

The skill not firing is a nightmare in intense combat, in particular on console when there's lag anyway and you hitting the button in vain.

And the more people using it the worse it is. I even stopped using it this patch for that very reason.

Arguably, Master Reach will smooth out that problem.
Speaking of, as we're back to Dragon Bones, can we get back the 20% damage on Meteor? Kthx!

[edited to remove quote]

Shinshadow · July 2018

If you guys can balance the stun from Nightblade's Incapacitating Strike, which is a short ranged dodgeable ULTIMATE, you guys can balance the stun of Rune Prison, which is an unblockable, undodgeable LONG RANGED REGULAR frickin skill.

Minalan · July 2018

Shinshadow wrote: »

If you guys can balance the stun from Nightblade's Incapacitating Strike, which is a short ranged dodgeable ULTIMATE, you guys can balance the stun of Rune Prison, which is an unblockable, undodgeable LONG RANGED REGULAR frickin skill.

A spammable ultimate, that also gives you defile, a stun, and 6 seconds of 20% bonus damage.

Now they took the damage off of breaking cage, and 120 ult if you want to stun people. Both skills needed adjustment in PVP, and they did an all right job of it.

RedGirl41 · July 2018

tbh I'm just here to put in my two cents and haven't read all the other rune cage threads....

I think its grossly over powered because of a few reasons... the range is insane. The stun takes so long to see/ break that the meteor combo will almost always kill you. The damage isn't the problem. the problem is you cant block the incoming meteor combo because they slap a rune cage that's unblockable. might as well give mag dks back their range on fossilize.

And I'm not here as a sorc hater cuz they glock me in pvp. I mained one for 2 years. just saying it makes sorc easy mode... we all know sorc burst is op so the second you are in a rune cage they are going to be spamming mages wrath. don't think the rune cage damage is the killer

bardx86 · July 2018

RedGirl41 wrote: »

tbh I'm just here to put in my two cents and haven't read all the other rune cage threads....

I think its grossly over powered because of a few reasons... the range is insane. The stun takes so long to see/ break that the meteor combo will almost always kill you. The damage isn't the problem. the problem is you cant block the incoming meteor combo because they slap a rune cage that's unblockable. might as well give mag dks back their range on fossilize.

And I'm not here as a sorc hater cuz they glock me in pvp. I mained one for 2 years. just saying it makes sorc easy mode... we all know sorc burst is op so the second you are in a rune cage they are going to be spamming mages wrath. don't think the rune cage damage is the killer

So we can do the same thing with streak, I guess that makes it op as well?

Priyasekarssk · July 2018

RedGirl41 wrote: »

tbh I'm just here to put in my two cents and haven't read all the other rune cage threads....

I think its grossly over powered because of a few reasons... the range is insane. The stun takes so long to see/ break that the meteor combo will almost always kill you. The damage isn't the problem. the problem is you cant block the incoming meteor combo because they slap a rune cage that's unblockable. might as well give mag dks back their range on fossilize.

And I'm not here as a sorc hater cuz they glock me in pvp. I mained one for 2 years. just saying it makes sorc easy mode... we all know sorc burst is op so the second you are in a rune cage they are going to be spamming mages wrath. don't think the rune cage damage is the killer

Its easy to counter runcage. Just have CC immunity up and use immobolity pods. NB can put unblockable/undodgeable debuffs from 35 M range without any counters and can be done from cloak . Its not overpowered. Runcage is overpowered. NB is so noobs always begging for cheese. Please ask ZOs a free class transfer to NB instead of biased class balance and noob forum posts.

Malamar1229 · July 2018

DDuke wrote: »

RighteousBacon wrote: »

[snip]

[snip]

In all fairness, as a sorc main I can honestly say I love nightblades.

Especially with ketchup.

Slurp

[edited to remove quote]

Malamar1229 · July 2018

@DDuke
In all seriousness people get as defensive with their classes as with Facebook politics it seems.
I play a stamblade now just as much as my magicka sorc, and guess which one is more "enjoyable?" I actually have a gameplay video of my first day in cyrodiil dusting off my bank mule stamblade in unmorphed skills, blue gear (think it was shield breaker, 3 agility, velidreth, and masters bow/vma 2H), and 1vXing just fine.

My assessment of sorc....its a high maintenance class requiring active defense. It's not fun. It's boring for lack of a better term. My stamblade is like all defense is preloaded and while in stealth (shuffle, rally, merciless, etc) and then go offense rotating in cloaks and vigor. It's more fluid gameplay having the snare immunity (another issue separate from this topic).

If I could control the direction of my streak like before, and then not have the fall when terrain isn't completely flat...that would help a little. Also if ball of lightning would grant short snare immunity it would help with the kite playstyle while offering a fair tradeoff. Streak IMO is the offensive gap closure.

If rune cage keeps getting adjusted, it will be another shelved ability and back to cookie cutter specs, as if it's not already. Instead of nerfing, adjust the skill so it fits with a particular playstyle. But due to the uselessness of a majority of the sorc skills, playstyles are already limited. What if runecage added a dot when broken instead? Would be favored for skoria sorcs, and some others.

Reach works great against bads, but competent players make it a magicka drain. Sorc burst is highly telegraphed...again boring playstyle.

At this point I'll be like 50 by the time stuff gets balanced properly...so enjoy the ride until the park closes I guess.

Irylia · July 2018

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Streak, huh?
Been advocating for an unblockable Streak since Curse was made unblockable. You're late, Ir, like wayyy late.
IF you wanna make Streak the deciding CC again, you would HAVE to correct the clunkiness on slopes, as in positioning your feet on the ground after Streak. Otherwise, you'll just waste your ult to a failing move half of the time.
Oh, and more turn speed on console. At the moment, people can break Streak before you can turn around.
I doubt ZOS will go to that length...

Me saying to do these changes 2 years ago was too late.

I have multiple sorc idea videos where I talk about changes and issues with the skills. That was back in 2016. Nothing has changed and the class continues to go downhill

Runecage is so over the top and far from what was needed. Damage keeps increasing and wards stay the same

Minalan · July 2018

Irylia wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Streak, huh?
Been advocating for an unblockable Streak since Curse was made unblockable. You're late, Ir, like wayyy late.
IF you wanna make Streak the deciding CC again, you would HAVE to correct the clunkiness on slopes, as in positioning your feet on the ground after Streak. Otherwise, you'll just waste your ult to a failing move half of the time.
Oh, and more turn speed on console. At the moment, people can break Streak before you can turn around.
I doubt ZOS will go to that length...

Me saying to do these changes 2 years ago was too late.

I have multiple sorc idea videos where I talk about changes and issues with the skills. That was back in 2016. Nothing has changed and the class continues to go downhill

Runecage is so over the top and far from what was needed. Damage keeps increasing and wards stay the same

They still plan on making RC dodgeable too last I heard. At this point I really think the devs are just really stupid people.

“Are you having bar space issues because there are too many good skills?”

Vapirko · July 2018

DDuke wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

@Feanor

Ah, good to know!
Yeah, Rune Cage is a counter to excessive rolling and blocking, which can both ruin our four seconds of preparation. People like DDuke just aren't used to sorcs actually being a threat. It's quite easy to tell how salty he is, no longer being carried on his 19k health bowbow gank "build".

When we get frontloaded burst like NBs or an instant stunburst ult like Dawnbreaker, we can talk about stripping the burst as we know it.

Lmao.

I've fought sorcs in the past who were more than a threat, easily capable of killing medium stamblades.

Sorcs who'd streak over you when you cloak or hit you with a frag/reach as you try to heavy attack for sustain and then bursted you down.

Sorcs who actually did something that requires skill (I know, a foreign concept to the likes of you) and earned their skills. Sorcs I could respect.

The fact you die to stamina burst tells me you don't know how to keep your shields up and aren't good with reactive defenses (dodge roll/block).

This is very much like arguing with the Miat's defenders again. "But, but... I deserve my cheats & cheese because I'm bad at the game". [snip]

Mag sorcs and Stam NBs should just be locked in their own faction together to rot in their own toxicity, and leave the rest of us to play in peace and relative cheeselessness.

[edited to remove quote]

Beardimus · July 2018

Minalan wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Streak, huh?
Been advocating for an unblockable Streak since Curse was made unblockable. You're late, Ir, like wayyy late.
IF you wanna make Streak the deciding CC again, you would HAVE to correct the clunkiness on slopes, as in positioning your feet on the ground after Streak. Otherwise, you'll just waste your ult to a failing move half of the time.
Oh, and more turn speed on console. At the moment, people can break Streak before you can turn around.
I doubt ZOS will go to that length...

Me saying to do these changes 2 years ago was too late.

I have multiple sorc idea videos where I talk about changes and issues with the skills. That was back in 2016. Nothing has changed and the class continues to go downhill

Runecage is so over the top and far from what was needed. Damage keeps increasing and wards stay the same

They still plan on making RC dodgeable too last I heard. At this point I really think the devs are just really stupid people.

“Are you having bar space issues because there are too many good skills?”

I don't get why anyone thinks needing sorcs worse than they were the last two patches is needed. It's madness.

Just delete cage, gives us Frag of old back. Done. People hated on Sorcs then, but not frag per say.

Now they clearly hate Cage. So get rid.

Waffennacht · July 2018

Beardimus wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Streak, huh?
Been advocating for an unblockable Streak since Curse was made unblockable. You're late, Ir, like wayyy late.
IF you wanna make Streak the deciding CC again, you would HAVE to correct the clunkiness on slopes, as in positioning your feet on the ground after Streak. Otherwise, you'll just waste your ult to a failing move half of the time.
Oh, and more turn speed on console. At the moment, people can break Streak before you can turn around.
I doubt ZOS will go to that length...

Me saying to do these changes 2 years ago was too late.

I have multiple sorc idea videos where I talk about changes and issues with the skills. That was back in 2016. Nothing has changed and the class continues to go downhill

Runecage is so over the top and far from what was needed. Damage keeps increasing and wards stay the same

They still plan on making RC dodgeable too last I heard. At this point I really think the devs are just really stupid people.

“Are you having bar space issues because there are too many good skills?”

I don't get why anyone thinks needing sorcs worse than they were the last two patches is needed. It's madness.

Just delete cage, gives us Frag of old back. Done. People hated on Sorcs then, but not frag per say.

Now they clearly hate Cage. So get rid.

But stamsorcs like it too

BuddyAces · July 2018

As someone who made a toon only for PvP and has been strictly pvp'ing for the last dew days I am not qualified to make "pro" PvP suggestions, BUT, other than a couple random stamden deaths and a couple nb ganks, every death is from a sorc. It is and it isn't rune prison. Fix the CC break. Like for the whole God damn game. The fact that I can CC break sometimes only 2 out of 5 times (Not exaggerating) is staggering.

Rune cheese is not the issue. It's ZOS coding. I'd be perfectly fine if every other skill in the game was a CC as long as the game would work as intended