Rune Prison “Nerf” is useless

irstarkey57

Everyone who PvP’s knows Rune prison is broken. It is blatantly clear. Gives a sorc which is an already super bursty class the ability to pre apply a freaking curse, lingering op execute, meteor...then stun the living *** out of you (unblockable and undodgeable) and then c frag you with zero counterplay. Everyone knows the issue is not the actual damage of rune prison which somehow the game developers thought was the issue even with class reps...hmmm...THE ISSUE IS THE STUN. Also, the break free is extremely bugged with that skill as well. I’ve spammed cc break (if it was a bag magsorc and I was still alive because he didn’t time burst well) and have been left in crouch position for the full 5 seconds. It’s absurd. Magsorcs in bg’s run around miles away spamming rune prison and endless fury. And guess what, it works great. If you believe tune prison isn’t broken, you’re a magsorc that doesn’t want to see your bread and butter op stun have counter play, or you just don’t pvp often. Possible fix : revert crit frag to get its stun back. There is at least counter play to that skill.

ak_pvp

Yep. 40m uncounterable (and buggy too) stun is aids, especially on a class that can time all with a big combo. The damage is what makes it worth running on most solo player bars (wasting a GCD on a pure stun is more painful) but the uncounterability is what makes it OP.

MaximillianDiE

Yep - its so overtuned even stam sorcs are using it now. That stun is a nightmare - its so buggy you literally cannot break free of it sometimes.

Waffennacht

MaximillianDiE wrote: »

Yep - its so overtuned even stam sorcs are using it now. That stun is a nightmare - its so buggy you literally cannot break free of it sometimes.

Now? I've always ran it on DW Stam sorc

Edit: was awesome when you could perma lock with DoTs not breaking the 20 sec stun

Strider__Roshin

Waffennacht wrote: »

MaximillianDiE wrote: »

Yep - its so overtuned even stam sorcs are using it now. That stun is a nightmare - its so buggy you literally cannot break free of it sometimes.

Now? I've always ran it on DW Stam sorc

Edit: was awesome when you could perma lock with DoTs not breaking the 20 sec stun

I miss that.

Vapirko

Unfortunately I doubt ZOS will make an intelligent nerf/fix it’s bugginess during this PTS cycle. Even if they make it dodgeable and/or shorten the duration, the fact that it’s one of the buggiest CC breaks will mean the main problem with it continues and they’re even less likely to fix the break free issue (which has been ongoing for ages) than they are to make an intelligent change to it.

OGLezard

I killed players rampantly on my sorc since the dawn of eso, and I will continue to do so though all these terribads want the class gutted and turned into free ap.

My sorc has seen the best of times and the worst of times. Lately it just seems like people want nerf after nerf for them. I say bring it on. Until you guys finally see sorcs with skills that shoot hugs and kisses and tiny little hearts, I doubt you will ever be happy. Even then I can see a world where they still cry nerf sorc.



One would think in a world of countless stuns/hard cc people would actually use immovable pots lol

That is all, carry on

irstarkey57

OGLezard wrote: »

I killed players rampantly on my sorc since the dawn of eso, and I will continue to do so though all these terribads want the class gutted and turned into free ap.

My sorc has seen the best of times and the worst of times. Lately it just seems like people want nerf after nerf for them. I say bring it on. Until you guys finally see sorcs with skills that shoot hugs and kisses and tiny little hearts, I doubt you will ever be happy. Even then I can see a world where they still cry nerf sorc.



One would think in a world of countless stuns/hard cc people would actually use immovable pots lol

That is all, carry on

Sorry man but I’ve played sorc too. Most everyone agrees it’s ridiculous. I’m sure you do too. Also, what you do for the other 35 seconds imov pot isn’t up. There is always one of you...

Feanor

So where are the complaints about Mass Hysteria and Fossilize? Oh. The range. Sure. But the range isnt an issue when you can’t break free in the first place.

And then there are knockbacks or skills that have a stun and a knockback. I don’t see complaints about those either although they’re even harder to break free reliably.

CC mechanics are broken all across the game. But let’s nerf Sorc to fix that.

Beardimus

So cage got a damage buff, people lose their mind. Cage gets a 20% damage Nerf and damage is not the issue?

Which is it? These threads make no sense now.

Love that you moan about getting hit with a frag too hilarious. It's been nerfed to oblivion (-10%/-10%& stun/-20% empower which more than equates to the damage added to cage)

WuffyCerulei

Dammit Ian!! Anyways, you have a point. The long*ss uncounterable stun from a million miles away didn't need a 5 second stun. Petrify also has a long stun, but it's more balanced as it has a short range.

idk

At first I found it odd Zos was reducing the effects of snares and leaving unlockable stuns. Then I realized snare complaints have been very loud recently. Even though they have often been of the variety that someone just does not like the inconvenience. Zos does hear volume.

Vahrokh

Beardimus wrote: »

So cage got a damage buff, people lose their mind. Cage gets a 20% damage Nerf and damage is not the issue?

Which is it? These threads make no sense now.

Love that you moan about getting hit with a frag too hilarious. It's been nerfed to oblivion (-10%/-10%& stun/-20% empower which more than equates to the damage added to cage)

They'd whine even if sorcs could only light attack. "Unfair light attack FROM 5000m WHAAAAA!!!! NERFFFFFF!!!!!"

It's the same terribads I had to endure in WoW, SWTOR, GW2 and Warhammer Online. Some even kept their nickname from those days on this forum (and put their nationality in signature: by that + their nickname + their unique, never changing, whining style I recognize them!).

Some of them are even crying on Star Citizen forums.

They are just a lost cause. Hopeless.

Feanor

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

Dammit Ian!! Anyways, you have a point. The long*ss uncounterable stun from a million miles away didn't need a 5 second stun. Petrify also has a long stun, but it's more balanced as it has a short range.

What's more balanced about an 8m range if the class is designed to fight melee anyway? Fossilize has an immobilize after the stun ends, so that's even more powerful. If a Sorc wants a melee stun one can save the bar spot and just go with Streak. It's even AoE. Yes RC is annoying in Xv1 scenarios. That's about the only issue the range has compared to Fossilize.

ItsNebula

I main a MagSorc, and personally.. I think the skill is op, and isn’t op. Isn’t OP in a way as it’s the only reliable CC sorcs have, and deals very low damage... if it hits you hard, you’re bad. Simple as that. However, it’s defiantly bugged, when trying to break free. 5 second stun is perfectly fine, but the fact that you can’t always break free is what makes it op.
Hell, Sorc v Sorc is aids... if it’s 2 good sorcs. As it’s pretty much a sustain fight and who who’s the most stam. Or who won’t get bugged.

But 80% of the sorcs I personally encounter in PvP suck, as there shields are low, and a curse can take out harness and hardened pretty much.

Sorc is definitely a hard class to play... in the way of keeping up shields every 6 seconds and landing a burst. If you got 2+ players on you it can be pretty hard, as you really have to watch your shields as they drain from the player who’s damaging you, while lining your burst on your tab target.

Sorc 1vX is near impossible unless you’re in a tight spot where YOU control the fight with LOS or on the side of a mountain. Mountains by Arrius are amazing for sorcs as you can stream to the next cliff and get a HUGE advantage.

LjAnimalchin

I didn't think there was actually sorcs out here that think sorc is hard to play. It's by far the easiest class for PvP. There are so many things you don't even have to worry about as a sorc. In terms of brain-dead playstyles magsorc is number 1. I literally hop on my sorc and slay people without even thinking about it because they can't avoid my burst. I can have insane mobility and tankiness and the best burst in the game, all from range.. everything about sorc is easy mode. Go run around solo on a mag DK or a stamplar or maybe a magblade and then come back and tell us if sorc is hard to play.

jaws343

Beardimus wrote: »

So cage got a damage buff, people lose their mind. Cage gets a 20% damage Nerf and damage is not the issue?

Which is it? These threads make no sense now.

Love that you moan about getting hit with a frag too hilarious. It's been nerfed to oblivion (-10%/-10%& stun/-20% empower which more than equates to the damage added to cage)

Agreed. When everyone was initially complaining about Rune cage it was because of the added damage. They remove the damage and now the damage was never the issue. Nearly every thread prior to these patch notes complained about the damage.

Strider__Roshin

Feanor wrote: »

So where are the complaints about Mass Hysteria and Fossilize? Oh. The range. Sure. But the range isnt an issue when you can’t break free in the first place.

And then there are knockbacks or skills that have a stun and a knockback. I don’t see complaints about those either although they’re even harder to break free reliably.

CC mechanics are broken all across the game. But let’s nerf Sorc to fix that.

You have to take into account how each of those classes play.

First Nightblades:
Following Fear it'll be followed by Incap to the spectral bow and then to reverse slice or surprise attack. The Incap will be a guaranteed hit if your opponent is block cancelling their attacks. However, you'll have enough time to CC break and avoid/defend against all of the following attacks. Yes, fear is unavoidable but there's still plenty of room for counterplay. A magblade could also do a meteor, fear, Spectral bow combo; and honestly this is almost as deadly as the Rune Cage combo that sorcs have.

DKs:
Fossilize is followed by either Take Flight then flame lash or flame lash then power lash. The Take Flight or the initial Flame Lash will be the guarantee hit. A more deadly combo is to use meteor, cast Fossilize then flame lash followed by power lash. In this example meteor, and flame lash will be guaranteed, but not the following power lash. There's still counterplay.

Magsorcs:
Haunting Curse is initialized followed Fury then Rune Cage into a Crystal Frag. Now when you look at this setup what's different? Unlike the other classes all of the burst for the sorc goes off at the same time. Haunting Curse goes off as Frag lands, and it this puts you into the 20% health threshold Fury auto kills you. Now put meteor into the fix and this combo will be a guarantee kill against tanks. And unlike NBs and DKs this can be done at range.

The only classes that should have access unavoidable CCs are those with sequential burst; not the delayed burst that magsorcs have. It removes any potential for counterplay.

jaws343

Daus wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

So where are the complaints about Mass Hysteria and Fossilize? Oh. The range. Sure. But the range isnt an issue when you can’t break free in the first place.

And then there are knockbacks or skills that have a stun and a knockback. I don’t see complaints about those either although they’re even harder to break free reliably.

CC mechanics are broken all across the game. But let’s nerf Sorc to fix that.

You have to take into account how each of those classes play.

First Nightblades:
Following Fear it'll be followed by Incap to the spectral bow and then to reverse slice or surprise attack. The Incap will be a guaranteed hit if your opponent is block cancelling their attacks. However, you'll have enough time to CC break and avoid/defend against all of the following attacks. Yes, fear is unavoidable but there's still plenty of room for counterplay. A magblade could also do a meteor, fear, Spectral bow combo; and honestly this is almost as deadly as the Rune Cage combo that sorcs have.

DKs:
Fossilize is followed by either Take Flight then flame lash or flame lash then power lash. The Take Flight or the initial Flame Lash will be the guarantee hit. A more deadly combo is to use meteor, cast Fossilize then flame lash followed by power lash. In this example meteor, and flame lash will be guaranteed, but not the following power lash. There's still counterplay.

Magsorcs:
Haunting Curse is initialized followed Fury then Rune Cage into a Crystal Frag. Now when you look at this setup what's different? Unlike the other classes all of the burst for the sorc goes off at the same time. Haunting Curse goes off as Frag lands, and it this puts you into the 20% health threshold Fury auto kills you. Now put meteor into the fix and this combo will be a guarantee kill against tanks. And unlike NBs and DKs this can be done at range.

The only classes that should have access unavoidable CCs are those with sequential burst; not the delayed burst that magsorcs have. It removes any potential for counterplay.

I don't know what tanks you face in Cyrodil but the ones I see have 40K+ health and high resistances+healing. That burst combo isn't going to take them out before they CC break and heal all the way back to full health unless at least 2 players are also doing it at the same time. Medium armor builds, sure. Light armor builds before they have a chance to refresh shields, sure. Heavy armor DD bulds, maybe. But not actual tank builds.

And what is the other option for a Sorc. Everything in their toolkit can be dodged except curse. Everything. And with the next patch that also includes the execute portion of wrath. Take out rune cage and sorcs will be pretty useless in PVP against many build types.

White wabbit

It's a scrubs skill

DDuke

jaws343 wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

So cage got a damage buff, people lose their mind. Cage gets a 20% damage Nerf and damage is not the issue?

Which is it? These threads make no sense now.

Love that you moan about getting hit with a frag too hilarious. It's been nerfed to oblivion (-10%/-10%& stun/-20% empower which more than equates to the damage added to cage)

Agreed. When everyone was initially complaining about Rune cage it was because of the added damage. They remove the damage and now the damage was never the issue. Nearly every thread prior to these patch notes complained about the damage.

They didn't remove the damage.

10k-20%=8k, not 0.


Very inconsequential nerf and definitely not enough when the skill still deals more damage than the dodgeable/blockable/reflectable Reach.

Feanor

DDuke wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

So cage got a damage buff, people lose their mind. Cage gets a 20% damage Nerf and damage is not the issue?

Which is it? These threads make no sense now.

Love that you moan about getting hit with a frag too hilarious. It's been nerfed to oblivion (-10%/-10%& stun/-20% empower which more than equates to the damage added to cage)

Agreed. When everyone was initially complaining about Rune cage it was because of the added damage. They remove the damage and now the damage was never the issue. Nearly every thread prior to these patch notes complained about the damage.

They didn't remove the damage.

10k-20%=8k, not 0.


Very inconsequential nerf and definitely not enough when the skill still deals more damage than the dodgeable/blockable/reflectable Reach.

Reach is way cheaper and can be spammed though.

Strider__Roshin

jaws343 wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

So where are the complaints about Mass Hysteria and Fossilize? Oh. The range. Sure. But the range isnt an issue when you can’t break free in the first place.

And then there are knockbacks or skills that have a stun and a knockback. I don’t see complaints about those either although they’re even harder to break free reliably.

CC mechanics are broken all across the game. But let’s nerf Sorc to fix that.

You have to take into account how each of those classes play.

First Nightblades:
Following Fear it'll be followed by Incap to the spectral bow and then to reverse slice or surprise attack. The Incap will be a guaranteed hit if your opponent is block cancelling their attacks. However, you'll have enough time to CC break and avoid/defend against all of the following attacks. Yes, fear is unavoidable but there's still plenty of room for counterplay. A magblade could also do a meteor, fear, Spectral bow combo; and honestly this is almost as deadly as the Rune Cage combo that sorcs have.

DKs:
Fossilize is followed by either Take Flight then flame lash or flame lash then power lash. The Take Flight or the initial Flame Lash will be the guarantee hit. A more deadly combo is to use meteor, cast Fossilize then flame lash followed by power lash. In this example meteor, and flame lash will be guaranteed, but not the following power lash. There's still counterplay.

Magsorcs:
Haunting Curse is initialized followed Fury then Rune Cage into a Crystal Frag. Now when you look at this setup what's different? Unlike the other classes all of the burst for the sorc goes off at the same time. Haunting Curse goes off as Frag lands, and it this puts you into the 20% health threshold Fury auto kills you. Now put meteor into the fix and this combo will be a guarantee kill against tanks. And unlike NBs and DKs this can be done at range.

The only classes that should have access unavoidable CCs are those with sequential burst; not the delayed burst that magsorcs have. It removes any potential for counterplay.

I don't know what tanks you face in Cyrodil but the ones I see have 40K+ health and high resistances+healing. That burst combo isn't going to take them out before they CC break and heal all the way back to full health unless at least 2 players are also doing it at the same time. Medium armor builds, sure. Light armor builds before they have a chance to refresh shields, sure. Heavy armor DD bulds, maybe. But not actual tank builds.

And what is the other option for a Sorc. Everything in their toolkit can be dodged except curse. Everything. And with the next patch that also includes the execute portion of wrath. Take out rune cage and sorcs will be pretty useless in PVP against many build types.

Streak is undodgeable, and really I should've said heavy armored opponents rather than tanks. A dedicated tank will take a lot more than one combo to kill if they're experienced.

jaws343

Streak is hardly an effective CC. It puts you behind an opponent and facing away from them. The only CC that does that.

And when I put removed the damage I phrased it wrong. Removed some of the damage is what I meant.

Minalan

Nightblades had two issues in the last patch that killed them: Sloads and rune cage.

Now they have a free pass on sloads thanks to the dev team’s obvious love and incredibly unbalanced bias.

Can anyone guess what’s next on the chopping block? Is it not obvious that every little forum murderblade is going to keep posting these threads until they tear apart rune cage with no recompense to the sorcerer class?

Before anyone cries that I’m a Sorc and obviously wrong because of that... I’ll point out that sloads still stacks and goes through shields.

Swimguy

yeah honestly people saying that nb needs a nerf are funny. magosrc gets wild burst that IS NOT HARD TO USE AT ALL and one of the best defensive mechanics in the game that IS NOT HARD TO USE AT ALL. if you cant kill people in pvp and stay alive and just LA people down while shielding then burst than you SUCK. go back to COD.

while having 100% crit ,bleed and resistance debuff immunity.

Tommy_The_Gun

"Broom Prison opi in better grounds" xD

^ I was watching a youtube video about PTS patch notes and the automatically generated English subtitles were like this

DDuke

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

"Broom Prison opi in better grounds" xD

^ I was watching a youtube video about PTS patch notes and the automatically generated English subtitles were like this

Broom Prison?

Tbh the sad thing is that Rune Cage is so strong you probably could kill people with this equipped on sorc:

Beardimus

DDuke wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

So cage got a damage buff, people lose their mind. Cage gets a 20% damage Nerf and damage is not the issue?

Which is it? These threads make no sense now.

Love that you moan about getting hit with a frag too hilarious. It's been nerfed to oblivion (-10%/-10%& stun/-20% empower which more than equates to the damage added to cage)

Agreed. When everyone was initially complaining about Rune cage it was because of the added damage. They remove the damage and now the damage was never the issue. Nearly every thread prior to these patch notes complained about the damage.

They didn't remove the damage.

10k-20%=8k, not 0.


Very inconsequential nerf and definitely not enough when the skill still deals more damage than the dodgeable/blockable/reflectable Reach.

Back with the 10k damage are we? That a 20k tooltip you seeing then out of battle spirit? Awesome. I want that build..

DDuke

Beardimus wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

So cage got a damage buff, people lose their mind. Cage gets a 20% damage Nerf and damage is not the issue?

Which is it? These threads make no sense now.

Love that you moan about getting hit with a frag too hilarious. It's been nerfed to oblivion (-10%/-10%& stun/-20% empower which more than equates to the damage added to cage)

Agreed. When everyone was initially complaining about Rune cage it was because of the added damage. They remove the damage and now the damage was never the issue. Nearly every thread prior to these patch notes complained about the damage.

They didn't remove the damage.

10k-20%=8k, not 0.


Very inconsequential nerf and definitely not enough when the skill still deals more damage than the dodgeable/blockable/reflectable Reach.

Back with the 10k damage are we? That a 20k tooltip you seeing then out of battle spirit? Awesome. I want that build..

With the old setup it's only 8k after the 20% reduction, and gear previous patch for 10k tooltip was 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery 2x Slimecraw (impen on gear still).

In this patch this is the tooltip with 2x Balorgh 5x Destruction Mastery 5x Spinner (so not even max tooltip setup), after the 20% nerf:



Battle Spirit isn't reflected on tooltips btw, it's a -50% Damage Taken buff on the player, not -50% Damage Done debuff.

It's also calculated multiplicatively with other defensive modifiers, so it's not even worth "50%" usually.

Minalan

DDuke wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

So cage got a damage buff, people lose their mind. Cage gets a 20% damage Nerf and damage is not the issue?

Which is it? These threads make no sense now.

Love that you moan about getting hit with a frag too hilarious. It's been nerfed to oblivion (-10%/-10%& stun/-20% empower which more than equates to the damage added to cage)

Agreed. When everyone was initially complaining about Rune cage it was because of the added damage. They remove the damage and now the damage was never the issue. Nearly every thread prior to these patch notes complained about the damage.

They didn't remove the damage.

10k-20%=8k, not 0.


Very inconsequential nerf and definitely not enough when the skill still deals more damage than the dodgeable/blockable/reflectable Reach.

Back with the 10k damage are we? That a 20k tooltip you seeing then out of battle spirit? Awesome. I want that build..

With the old setup it's only 8k after the 20% reduction, and gear previous patch for 10k tooltip was 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery 2x Slimecraw (impen on gear still).

In this patch this is the tooltip with 2x Balorgh 5x Destruction Mastery 5x Spinner (so not even max tooltip setup), after the 20% nerf:



Battle Spirit isn't reflected on tooltips btw, it's a -50% Damage Taken buff on the player, not -50% Damage Done debuff.

It's also calculated multiplicatively with other defensive modifiers, so it's not even worth "50%" usually.

So, 4K or so damage after battle spirit.

Then take another 1.5-2K off for armor and mitigation.

Sooo... 3K damage tops? Cry me a river nightblade.

Didnt they also just give you a visual cue this patch if someone is running a detect pot? Leap to shade lolol. They also made wrath completely dodgeable.

They cater to your class, laugh less and learn to read patch notes.