How to balance sorcs in PvP

webrgesner · July 2018

Remove undodgeable/unblockable CC (Runecage) and make it dodgeable and blockable.
And bring back stun on frags. Simple.

webrgesner · July 2018

And also just remove the "reduce cost" for instant cast

ChunkyCat · July 2018

Get Sloaded.

JamieAubrey · July 2018

Apherius · July 2018

if they bring back stun on frags it won't solve the issue about rune cage. they can't destroy a morph and buff another skill, they will never solve the class balance issues by doing that.

webrgesner · July 2018

Apherius wrote: »

if they bring back stun on frags it won't solve the issue about rune cage. they can't destroy a morph and buff another skill, they will never solve the class balance issues by doing that.

Sorc didnt have issued before when frags CC'd
Magdk may have Petrify but their only attack after a cc is whip
As for Magsorc as soon as you get CC'd with runecage you take damage from curse, frag, and possibly mages fury (also meteor if they have ult) Thats a huge amount of bursrt. Sorc were alright when frags was a CC

Drakkdjinn · July 2018

webrgesner wrote: »

Remove undodgeable/unblockable CC (Runecage) and make it dodgeable and blockable.

Sadly, they didn't take the hint & went off the rails with their adjustment.

Apherius · July 2018

webrgesner wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

if they bring back stun on frags it won't solve the issue about rune cage. they can't destroy a morph and buff another skill, they will never solve the class balance issues by doing that.

Sorc didnt have issued before when frags CC'd
Magdk may have Petrify but their only attack after a cc is whip
As for Magsorc as soon as you get CC'd with runecage you take damage from curse, frag, and possibly mages fury (also meteor if they have ult) Thats a huge amount of bursrt. Sorc were alright when frags was a CC

I did not said the frag CC was an issue, I'm saying it's not the current issue, people are complaining about rune cage, we can't just tell "OK nerf the skill and make it weaker than reach, but i want my frag CC back ! " this is not a way to balance things.

Maybe ...

Remove the damage, make it 3 sec (this would help those who can't manage their stamina), but keep the undodgeable/unavoidable part.
Remove the undodgeable/unavoidable part, and rework the whole skill, make it a dot or anything useful for DPS, because if they just nerf this part there would be no point to use this skill instead clench. + Give the CC back on frag.
Remove the undodgeable/unavoidable part, and increase the damage + change the animation + Make it spamable like reach + make it apply a debuff (= remove the issue without making it weaker than reach)

Yolokin_Swagonborn · July 2018

But how do we balance the forums by not having 100 nerf sorc threads a day?

Gprime31 · July 2018

webrgesner wrote: »

Remove undodgeable/unblockable CC (Runecage) and make it dodgeable and blockable.
And bring back stun on frags. Simple.

Yes but remove the insta proc, or give it to uppercut too

Biro123 · July 2018

Apherius wrote: »

webrgesner wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

if they bring back stun on frags it won't solve the issue about rune cage. they can't destroy a morph and buff another skill, they will never solve the class balance issues by doing that.

Sorc didnt have issued before when frags CC'd
Magdk may have Petrify but their only attack after a cc is whip
As for Magsorc as soon as you get CC'd with runecage you take damage from curse, frag, and possibly mages fury (also meteor if they have ult) Thats a huge amount of bursrt. Sorc were alright when frags was a CC

I did not said the frag CC was an issue, I'm saying it's not the current issue, people are complaining about rune cage, we can't just tell "OK nerf the skill and make it weaker than reach, but i want my frag CC back ! " this is not a way to balance things.

Maybe ...
Remove the damage, make it 3 sec (this would help those who can't manage their stamina), but keep the undodgeable/unavoidable part.

Remove the undodgeable/unavoidable part, and rework the whole skill, make it a dot or anything useful for DPS, because if they just nerf this part there would be no point to use this skill instead clench. + Give the CC back on frag.

Remove the undodgeable/unavoidable part, and increase the damage + change the animation + Make it spamable like reach + make it apply a debuff (= remove the issue without making it weaker than reach)

Not an easy answer..

Zos won't put the stun back on frags - simply because they never revert stuff like that... Besides, back then people were still saying sorcs were overpowered (frags especially).. Won't stop the crying.

Neither will they remove the damage from cage and put the stun to 3 secs (ie the pre-summerset version) - First, because they never revert live changes - and 2nd, because sorcs would go back to their low-tier status they had pre-summerset(although pp still complained about them)..

I can't see them making it reach-like either.. Sorcs will still rather use reach for that 8% buff.. Now if they were to change that requirement of having a destro skill slotted, things could get a lot more interesting...

making it a dot would be a buff imho.. opening up sets like scoria and sloads more for sorcs, while reducing their opponents recovery ability between bursts. Although non-sorcs probably wouldn't realise this and would be happy with it..

But consider, though.. when the stun was on frags, sorcs didn't need reach or cage. They essentially had an extra skill-slot compared to now. Now they need 2 for that same burst/cc.. sorc all-over, really..

Apherius · July 2018

Biro123 wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

webrgesner wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

if they bring back stun on frags it won't solve the issue about rune cage. they can't destroy a morph and buff another skill, they will never solve the class balance issues by doing that.

Sorc didnt have issued before when frags CC'd
Magdk may have Petrify but their only attack after a cc is whip
As for Magsorc as soon as you get CC'd with runecage you take damage from curse, frag, and possibly mages fury (also meteor if they have ult) Thats a huge amount of bursrt. Sorc were alright when frags was a CC

I did not said the frag CC was an issue, I'm saying it's not the current issue, people are complaining about rune cage, we can't just tell "OK nerf the skill and make it weaker than reach, but i want my frag CC back ! " this is not a way to balance things.

Maybe ...
Remove the damage, make it 3 sec (this would help those who can't manage their stamina), but keep the undodgeable/unavoidable part.

Remove the undodgeable/unavoidable part, and rework the whole skill, make it a dot or anything useful for DPS, because if they just nerf this part there would be no point to use this skill instead clench. + Give the CC back on frag.

Remove the undodgeable/unavoidable part, and increase the damage + change the animation + Make it spamable like reach + make it apply a debuff (= remove the issue without making it weaker than reach)

Not an easy answer..

Zos won't put the stun back on frags - simply because they never revert stuff like that... Besides, back then people were still saying sorcs were overpowered (frags especially).. Won't stop the crying.

Neither will they remove the damage from cage and put the stun to 3 secs (ie the pre-summerset version) - First, because they never revert live changes - and 2nd, because sorcs would go back to their low-tier status they had pre-summerset(although pp still complained about them)..

I can't see them making it reach-like either.. Sorcs will still rather use reach for that 8% buff.. Now if they were to change that requirement of having a destro skill slotted, things could get a lot more interesting...

making it a dot would be a buff imho.. opening up sets like scoria and sloads more for sorcs, while reducing their opponents recovery ability between bursts.

But consider, though.. when the stun was on frags, sorcs didn't need reach or cage. They essentially had an extra skill-slot compared to now. Now they need 2 for that same burst/cc.. sorc all-over, really..

Of course the CC on frag was a good thing, but as you said they will never revert this nerf.
We use force pulse anyway, so we have the 8% buff, do you still think my third idea would fix the issue ? I understand the rest can't work because they never revert nerfs.

Biro123 · July 2018

There's no way I could fit that on my bar.. I could get behind them dropping the destro equipped requirement to give a choice between having sustained damage (with pulse) or having stronger burst with cage but no spammable (old DW style). Can't see myself ever dropping hardened from front-bar, and a burst build needs inner-light too.

Beardimus · July 2018

webrgesner wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

if they bring back stun on frags it won't solve the issue about rune cage. they can't destroy a morph and buff another skill, they will never solve the class balance issues by doing that.

Sorc didnt have issued before when frags CC'd
Magdk may have Petrify but their only attack after a cc is whip
As for Magsorc as soon as you get CC'd with runecage you take damage from curse, frag, and possibly mages fury (also meteor if they have ult) Thats a huge amount of bursrt. Sorc were alright when frags was a CC

Sorry @webrgesner but not sure if you were here - people ALWAYS moan about sorcs. They moaned we were OP with Frags. It got nerfed multiple times (damage, then stun & more damage) Sorcs had pitiful burst for 6 months yet people littered the forum with anti sorc venum. Despite then being off the grid in dueling comps and Alpt of top players leaving the class.

Along comes Cage, which most sorcs said was OP on PTS and not the solution, its now getting nerfed and still people whine.

Sorcs could have wards removed and someone would still accuse them of shield stackin / eating their homework / stealing their jobs.

I'm all for buffing C Frag damage 20%, and getting empower back. Stun would be icing on cake. But regardless it won't stop people moaning. And ZOS dont back track on balance.

webrgesner · July 2018

Apherius wrote: »

webrgesner wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

if they bring back stun on frags it won't solve the issue about rune cage. they can't destroy a morph and buff another skill, they will never solve the class balance issues by doing that.

Sorc didnt have issued before when frags CC'd
Magdk may have Petrify but their only attack after a cc is whip
As for Magsorc as soon as you get CC'd with runecage you take damage from curse, frag, and possibly mages fury (also meteor if they have ult) Thats a huge amount of bursrt. Sorc were alright when frags was a CC

I did not said the frag CC was an issue, I'm saying it's not the current issue, people are complaining about rune cage, we can't just tell "OK nerf the skill and make it weaker than reach, but i want my frag CC back ! " this is not a way to balance things.

Maybe ...
Remove the damage, make it 3 sec (this would help those who can't manage their stamina), but keep the undodgeable/unavoidable part.

Remove the undodgeable/unavoidable part, and rework the whole skill, make it a dot or anything useful for DPS, because if they just nerf this part there would be no point to use this skill instead clench. + Give the CC back on frag.

Remove the undodgeable/unavoidable part, and increase the damage + change the animation + Make it spamable like reach + make it apply a debuff (= remove the issue without making it weaker than reach)

honestly the 5 seconds is ridiculous because everyone spams that skill and in bg it cost FIVE THOUSAND stam just to break free. i main a magsorc but i like my bar setup and i just use streak for stun enemies. and in bg i only have 13k stam and when i get rune caged the 4th time im dead. theres no way i can counter all the incoming damage for 5 seconds. And also im not the only one whos complained about this but sometimes its hard to break free from rune cage. i would be spamming the break free botton and my toon wont break free. other people has had that issues.