Sorcs are easy. Okay
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Killset✭✭✭✭
LOL
LOL they didn’t quit. They just switched to better builds. Especially when the Asylum Destro was first introduced. Just stop. Let me ask you this? Do you think Sorc is fine as is?
What are you even rambling on about?. You don’t see Dual Wield Sorcs because you would be an idiot to run one with the direct and indirect buffs Sorcs received from Destro staff counting as a two item set piece, Rune buff, and light/heavy attack damage buff. Are you actually crying because destro/resto sorc got so buffed as to make Dual Wield obsolete? The Sorc struggle is real lol.
Nightblade has been nerfed as much or more than every class you just mentioned. Sorc has escaped nerfs that other classes have been decimated with. A good example is Dark Deal remaining in the game when every other class had its sustain mechanics trashed. NB is good 1v1. At best. Sorc on the other hand is on a whole new level. But you know that.
You leave out the fact that sorc damage was buffed three fold with destro staff counting as 2 set pieces, light attack damage being buffed and Rune doing its damage up front. Arguments like “if the 2-4K damage from Rune killed you, you were going to die anyway” are complete and utter BS. That 2-4K hitting in the same GCD is now more than enough to put you in execute which should already be sitting on you like a ticking time bomb.Here’s some insight for you sorc fanboys who don’t know PvP outside your endless shield spam.
QQ rants don't equate to insight.Templars have bad dps compared to other classes, their jabs don’t even land most of the time and literally any player with any form of skill is easily able to dodge and evade the jab spam. All templars are essentially good for is turtling up and block castin BoL which basically makes them into a tank and does no damage. They can hardly kill any good class because they’re so vulnerable on offense you can literally smack a Templar in the face with a burst combo if they’re trying to go in the offensive. Their only form of dps is jabs and PoTL or purifying light combo which is the easiest burst to avoid. If you still cry about magplars being OP you’ve never played a Templar nor do you realize how difficult it is to actually do damage and have decent survivability on one.
Templar is a class that totally shines in a group setting but is very lacking when you run solo. A well played Templar makes a huge difference in a group. A Sorc not so much. You just can't compare the two classes as they function completely different. I'm all for giving Templar their soul back, but that has nothing to do with the OPness of Sorcs.Magsorcs have the easiest burst in the entire game. I don’t want to hear a stupid argument of “hrrr durrr stam haz their combo ez just Dawnbreaker spin 2 win” first off. You can block and dodge a dawnbreaker. You can block spin to win. Crying about DB spin to win combo is a l2p issue same with dying to a perma jab spammer. You just suck.
The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).Now back on the topic of sorcs. Rune cage is an uunblockable, undodgeable cc which has a massive range, relatively cheap cost, does a significant amount of damage, and has the longest stun duration. This has no counter play.
3k+ magicka (depending on LA passives) isn't "relatively cheap". Granted, the skill shouldn't have burst damage, but the rest of its functionality is exactly the same as before Summerset (hint: no one complained about it then).Don’t try and say “get more health” not all builds revolve around having a bunch of health.
I agree on that, but running a low health build is a build decision, and nothing you can complain about. At least that's what Sorcs get told all the time on the topic of Oblivion damage.Don’t try and say “get more stam, cc break”
In cyrodiil with lag already crazy enough as it is. Most of the time it’s not going to register you spamming your trigger buttons to cc break in time before the trash no skill sorc gives you the ez wombo combo burst.
I believe that's the main issue, and it isn't a Sorc specific one. CC is broken fundamentally in the game, and has been with specific CC skills for years (see Mass Hysteria for that). Fixing CC is the solution then.In non CP if you’re on a mag. Chances are you’re going to die pretty easily due to the fact that you have almost no stam, cc breaking takes half of it away, that’s not including having to use stam for blocking roll dodging or sprinting on a mag in non cp. so essentially you’re going to be hit with a full sorc burst and you cannot do a single thing about it.
I'm running with 16k stam on my noCP mSorc. Again, it's a conscious build decision if you run with less in favor of having a larger health and mag pool. If you want to know, a Sorc doesn't survive with 10k stam in noCP either.There’s is no counter play to an undodgeable unblockable cc with huge range. It’s an absolute joke for sorcs. Curse, meteor, rune cage, frags, excecute. Takes no skill and has no counter play. This is isn’t an “l2p” issue. It’s a “sorcs are ignorant af and don’t want their trash no skill builds nerfed or else they’ll cry like the babies they are” issue
Break free and roll dodge. If the 2k to 4k damage Rune Cage does now really kills you, you wouldn't have survived the follow up anyway. The exact same combination was possible before Summerset - without the Rune Cage damage.Please tell me how endless shield stacking and unblockable Undodgeable cc’s are balanced.
A typical Sorc build without pets or Necro/Shadowrend will be around 40k mag in noCP. Sgield stacking isn't endless if you want to go on the offensive too. And again, Sorcs had undodgeable and unblockable CC before Summerset.For those who try and argue saying fear and fossilize is Also unblockable and undodgable. First off. They require you to be in MELEE RANGE. Not to mention DK’s don’t have the damage output a sorc does so they can’t burst you down as fast as a sorc can when you’re fossilized. They also both have shorter stun duration and don’t do stupid amounts of damage. Not to mention you can’t just kill them from 41 meters away like you can on a trash sorc.
Melee range isn't a disadvantage if your class kit is built for melee (DK, stamNB). Only ranged magBlade is somewhat disadvantaged with Mass Hysteria, but they run Reach and/or Cripple anyway. As for magDKs damage output I'm not experienced enough to judge it, but the consensus from class mains seems to be that damage isn't the issue magDK has (although whip being dodgeable hurt them a bit).
40k magic in no cp! How do you endure. I can barely get 30k stamina while still building for all the other things I need to survive the Sorc fest BG’s have become.
Melee isn’t a disadvantage for melee characters If everyone I fought couldn’t damage me until I got within 5 meters of them. Sadly that isn’t the reality of things. The reality of PvP is far different then Sorcs defending their class would have you believe. Arguments like this are comical and anyone who has spent longer than 10 minutes in PvP can see right through it.
The fact that any person can legitimately argue that Sorc is balanced right now boggles my mind. This game needs a lot of changes. They could start with balancing Sorc, nerfing Sloads, nerfing Masters dual wield, nerfing Zaans, nerfing Caluurions, and nerfing the defile CP passive. It would be a good start.
And of course, NB remains untouched. Because NB, which is currently far above DK, Warden and Temp, will regain solo top position once that pesky sorc competitor has been OHKO'd by the nerf hammer.
Right.
Every single Person I play with unanimously agrees the class is brokenly overpowered right now, and this includes Sorc Mains. Every one. This isn’t even a debate anymore amongst people who aren’t grossly biased towards the class. And IF you are a Sorc main and aren’t feeling this, I suggest you YouTube a good Sorc build while the good times last.
Yeah, sorc has never been nerfed. Never.
Do you even know what a DW magsorc is? Seen one recently?
And if we take sorc out of the picture... are you REALLY claiming Warden, Temp and DK are on par with NB?
SERIOUSLY???
And to answer your second question. In any other context aside from solo, open world PvP. Yes. They are better.
DW sorcs have quit way, way before Summerset.
And you're just completely in denial if you think NB is weaker than those other classes.
Shows how little you know.
DW sorcs resignated way before CwC. I'd say the changes to Trapping Webs began the mass exodus. And no one used an Asylum Destro in Cyro. Everyone went with Master's for well-known reasons.
I was for either damage buff to Frags or stun re-integration, not Cage damage. But what you see now is a functioning sorc burst, as it should be. It is just a little overtuned with too much damage. But still, this is how sorcs work by concept. I heard Cloak was made whole and OP, so sorcs shouldn't?
So, let me throw the questipn back:
Do yoi think sorc was fine before Summerset?
I agree Sorcs were not fine per-summerset. If they were to change Frags back to have a stun then other things need to be addressed. All passive dodge abilities would have to be removed. It's beyond frustrating to have some one running away in a strait line and dodge every skill except curse. How is that skill? Roll dodge may need to be looked as well. Cloak would also have to be reworked having a NB cloak right next to you or a group of folks is stupid. Sorcs would also need something to fight against perm-blockers.
And that's where no-damage Rune Cage comes in. Dodge/block counter at the cost of burst damage, but Frags being strong enough to kill, if pressured beforehand.
Honestly I don't think thats a bad Idea however I would like to see a bit more damage added back to frags then.
I thought about 20%, compensating for Empower.
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Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
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They used both. I saw the (Hexys?) trapping webs build video too. I can count on one hand how many Sorcs I saw run that on Xbox NA. My point is DW sorc didnt receive a nerf that the whole class didn’t receive (frags), it just kept getting better to run staff, especially after the skill destro line got buffed and frag lost CC. And to answer your question, ZOS should have listened to PTS Sorcs when they said the class is overtuned with the buffs to light/heavy attacks, staff counting as two set pieces, AND the buff to Rune. It very well could have been that the set piece change and buff to light/heavy put the class right where it needed to be.
LOL they didn’t quit. They just switched to better builds. Especially when the Asylum Destro was first introduced. Just stop. Let me ask you this? Do you think Sorc is fine as is?
What are you even rambling on about?. You don’t see Dual Wield Sorcs because you would be an idiot to run one with the direct and indirect buffs Sorcs received from Destro staff counting as a two item set piece, Rune buff, and light/heavy attack damage buff. Are you actually crying because destro/resto sorc got so buffed as to make Dual Wield obsolete? The Sorc struggle is real lol.
Nightblade has been nerfed as much or more than every class you just mentioned. Sorc has escaped nerfs that other classes have been decimated with. A good example is Dark Deal remaining in the game when every other class had its sustain mechanics trashed. NB is good 1v1. At best. Sorc on the other hand is on a whole new level. But you know that.
You leave out the fact that sorc damage was buffed three fold with destro staff counting as 2 set pieces, light attack damage being buffed and Rune doing its damage up front. Arguments like “if the 2-4K damage from Rune killed you, you were going to die anyway” are complete and utter BS. That 2-4K hitting in the same GCD is now more than enough to put you in execute which should already be sitting on you like a ticking time bomb.Here’s some insight for you sorc fanboys who don’t know PvP outside your endless shield spam.
QQ rants don't equate to insight.Templars have bad dps compared to other classes, their jabs don’t even land most of the time and literally any player with any form of skill is easily able to dodge and evade the jab spam. All templars are essentially good for is turtling up and block castin BoL which basically makes them into a tank and does no damage. They can hardly kill any good class because they’re so vulnerable on offense you can literally smack a Templar in the face with a burst combo if they’re trying to go in the offensive. Their only form of dps is jabs and PoTL or purifying light combo which is the easiest burst to avoid. If you still cry about magplars being OP you’ve never played a Templar nor do you realize how difficult it is to actually do damage and have decent survivability on one.
Templar is a class that totally shines in a group setting but is very lacking when you run solo. A well played Templar makes a huge difference in a group. A Sorc not so much. You just can't compare the two classes as they function completely different. I'm all for giving Templar their soul back, but that has nothing to do with the OPness of Sorcs.Magsorcs have the easiest burst in the entire game. I don’t want to hear a stupid argument of “hrrr durrr stam haz their combo ez just Dawnbreaker spin 2 win” first off. You can block and dodge a dawnbreaker. You can block spin to win. Crying about DB spin to win combo is a l2p issue same with dying to a perma jab spammer. You just suck.
The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).Now back on the topic of sorcs. Rune cage is an uunblockable, undodgeable cc which has a massive range, relatively cheap cost, does a significant amount of damage, and has the longest stun duration. This has no counter play.
3k+ magicka (depending on LA passives) isn't "relatively cheap". Granted, the skill shouldn't have burst damage, but the rest of its functionality is exactly the same as before Summerset (hint: no one complained about it then).Don’t try and say “get more health” not all builds revolve around having a bunch of health.
I agree on that, but running a low health build is a build decision, and nothing you can complain about. At least that's what Sorcs get told all the time on the topic of Oblivion damage.Don’t try and say “get more stam, cc break”
In cyrodiil with lag already crazy enough as it is. Most of the time it’s not going to register you spamming your trigger buttons to cc break in time before the trash no skill sorc gives you the ez wombo combo burst.
I believe that's the main issue, and it isn't a Sorc specific one. CC is broken fundamentally in the game, and has been with specific CC skills for years (see Mass Hysteria for that). Fixing CC is the solution then.In non CP if you’re on a mag. Chances are you’re going to die pretty easily due to the fact that you have almost no stam, cc breaking takes half of it away, that’s not including having to use stam for blocking roll dodging or sprinting on a mag in non cp. so essentially you’re going to be hit with a full sorc burst and you cannot do a single thing about it.
I'm running with 16k stam on my noCP mSorc. Again, it's a conscious build decision if you run with less in favor of having a larger health and mag pool. If you want to know, a Sorc doesn't survive with 10k stam in noCP either.There’s is no counter play to an undodgeable unblockable cc with huge range. It’s an absolute joke for sorcs. Curse, meteor, rune cage, frags, excecute. Takes no skill and has no counter play. This is isn’t an “l2p” issue. It’s a “sorcs are ignorant af and don’t want their trash no skill builds nerfed or else they’ll cry like the babies they are” issue
Break free and roll dodge. If the 2k to 4k damage Rune Cage does now really kills you, you wouldn't have survived the follow up anyway. The exact same combination was possible before Summerset - without the Rune Cage damage.Please tell me how endless shield stacking and unblockable Undodgeable cc’s are balanced.
A typical Sorc build without pets or Necro/Shadowrend will be around 40k mag in noCP. Sgield stacking isn't endless if you want to go on the offensive too. And again, Sorcs had undodgeable and unblockable CC before Summerset.For those who try and argue saying fear and fossilize is Also unblockable and undodgable. First off. They require you to be in MELEE RANGE. Not to mention DK’s don’t have the damage output a sorc does so they can’t burst you down as fast as a sorc can when you’re fossilized. They also both have shorter stun duration and don’t do stupid amounts of damage. Not to mention you can’t just kill them from 41 meters away like you can on a trash sorc.
Melee range isn't a disadvantage if your class kit is built for melee (DK, stamNB). Only ranged magBlade is somewhat disadvantaged with Mass Hysteria, but they run Reach and/or Cripple anyway. As for magDKs damage output I'm not experienced enough to judge it, but the consensus from class mains seems to be that damage isn't the issue magDK has (although whip being dodgeable hurt them a bit).
40k magic in no cp! How do you endure. I can barely get 30k stamina while still building for all the other things I need to survive the Sorc fest BG’s have become.
Melee isn’t a disadvantage for melee characters If everyone I fought couldn’t damage me until I got within 5 meters of them. Sadly that isn’t the reality of things. The reality of PvP is far different then Sorcs defending their class would have you believe. Arguments like this are comical and anyone who has spent longer than 10 minutes in PvP can see right through it.
The fact that any person can legitimately argue that Sorc is balanced right now boggles my mind. This game needs a lot of changes. They could start with balancing Sorc, nerfing Sloads, nerfing Masters dual wield, nerfing Zaans, nerfing Caluurions, and nerfing the defile CP passive. It would be a good start.
And of course, NB remains untouched. Because NB, which is currently far above DK, Warden and Temp, will regain solo top position once that pesky sorc competitor has been OHKO'd by the nerf hammer.
Right.
Every single Person I play with unanimously agrees the class is brokenly overpowered right now, and this includes Sorc Mains. Every one. This isn’t even a debate anymore amongst people who aren’t grossly biased towards the class. And IF you are a Sorc main and aren’t feeling this, I suggest you YouTube a good Sorc build while the good times last.
Yeah, sorc has never been nerfed. Never.
Do you even know what a DW magsorc is? Seen one recently?
And if we take sorc out of the picture... are you REALLY claiming Warden, Temp and DK are on par with NB?
SERIOUSLY???
And to answer your second question. In any other context aside from solo, open world PvP. Yes. They are better.
DW sorcs have quit way, way before Summerset.
And you're just completely in denial if you think NB is weaker than those other classes.
Shows how little you know.
DW sorcs resignated way before CwC. I'd say the changes to Trapping Webs began the mass exodus. And no one used an Asylum Destro in Cyro. Everyone went with Master's for well-known reasons.
I was for either damage buff to Frags or stun re-integration, not Cage damage. But what you see now is a functioning sorc burst, as it should be. It is just a little overtuned with too much damage. But still, this is how sorcs work by concept. I heard Cloak was made whole and OP, so sorcs shouldn't?
So, let me throw the questipn back:
Do yoi think sorc was fine before Summerset?
But how was sorc before Summer?0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
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LOL
LOL they didn’t quit. They just switched to better builds. Especially when the Asylum Destro was first introduced. Just stop. Let me ask you this? Do you think Sorc is fine as is?
What are you even rambling on about?. You don’t see Dual Wield Sorcs because you would be an idiot to run one with the direct and indirect buffs Sorcs received from Destro staff counting as a two item set piece, Rune buff, and light/heavy attack damage buff. Are you actually crying because destro/resto sorc got so buffed as to make Dual Wield obsolete? The Sorc struggle is real lol.
Nightblade has been nerfed as much or more than every class you just mentioned. Sorc has escaped nerfs that other classes have been decimated with. A good example is Dark Deal remaining in the game when every other class had its sustain mechanics trashed. NB is good 1v1. At best. Sorc on the other hand is on a whole new level. But you know that.
You leave out the fact that sorc damage was buffed three fold with destro staff counting as 2 set pieces, light attack damage being buffed and Rune doing its damage up front. Arguments like “if the 2-4K damage from Rune killed you, you were going to die anyway” are complete and utter BS. That 2-4K hitting in the same GCD is now more than enough to put you in execute which should already be sitting on you like a ticking time bomb.Here’s some insight for you sorc fanboys who don’t know PvP outside your endless shield spam.
QQ rants don't equate to insight.Templars have bad dps compared to other classes, their jabs don’t even land most of the time and literally any player with any form of skill is easily able to dodge and evade the jab spam. All templars are essentially good for is turtling up and block castin BoL which basically makes them into a tank and does no damage. They can hardly kill any good class because they’re so vulnerable on offense you can literally smack a Templar in the face with a burst combo if they’re trying to go in the offensive. Their only form of dps is jabs and PoTL or purifying light combo which is the easiest burst to avoid. If you still cry about magplars being OP you’ve never played a Templar nor do you realize how difficult it is to actually do damage and have decent survivability on one.
Templar is a class that totally shines in a group setting but is very lacking when you run solo. A well played Templar makes a huge difference in a group. A Sorc not so much. You just can't compare the two classes as they function completely different. I'm all for giving Templar their soul back, but that has nothing to do with the OPness of Sorcs.Magsorcs have the easiest burst in the entire game. I don’t want to hear a stupid argument of “hrrr durrr stam haz their combo ez just Dawnbreaker spin 2 win” first off. You can block and dodge a dawnbreaker. You can block spin to win. Crying about DB spin to win combo is a l2p issue same with dying to a perma jab spammer. You just suck.
The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).Now back on the topic of sorcs. Rune cage is an uunblockable, undodgeable cc which has a massive range, relatively cheap cost, does a significant amount of damage, and has the longest stun duration. This has no counter play.
3k+ magicka (depending on LA passives) isn't "relatively cheap". Granted, the skill shouldn't have burst damage, but the rest of its functionality is exactly the same as before Summerset (hint: no one complained about it then).Don’t try and say “get more health” not all builds revolve around having a bunch of health.
I agree on that, but running a low health build is a build decision, and nothing you can complain about. At least that's what Sorcs get told all the time on the topic of Oblivion damage.Don’t try and say “get more stam, cc break”
In cyrodiil with lag already crazy enough as it is. Most of the time it’s not going to register you spamming your trigger buttons to cc break in time before the trash no skill sorc gives you the ez wombo combo burst.
I believe that's the main issue, and it isn't a Sorc specific one. CC is broken fundamentally in the game, and has been with specific CC skills for years (see Mass Hysteria for that). Fixing CC is the solution then.In non CP if you’re on a mag. Chances are you’re going to die pretty easily due to the fact that you have almost no stam, cc breaking takes half of it away, that’s not including having to use stam for blocking roll dodging or sprinting on a mag in non cp. so essentially you’re going to be hit with a full sorc burst and you cannot do a single thing about it.
I'm running with 16k stam on my noCP mSorc. Again, it's a conscious build decision if you run with less in favor of having a larger health and mag pool. If you want to know, a Sorc doesn't survive with 10k stam in noCP either.There’s is no counter play to an undodgeable unblockable cc with huge range. It’s an absolute joke for sorcs. Curse, meteor, rune cage, frags, excecute. Takes no skill and has no counter play. This is isn’t an “l2p” issue. It’s a “sorcs are ignorant af and don’t want their trash no skill builds nerfed or else they’ll cry like the babies they are” issue
Break free and roll dodge. If the 2k to 4k damage Rune Cage does now really kills you, you wouldn't have survived the follow up anyway. The exact same combination was possible before Summerset - without the Rune Cage damage.Please tell me how endless shield stacking and unblockable Undodgeable cc’s are balanced.
A typical Sorc build without pets or Necro/Shadowrend will be around 40k mag in noCP. Sgield stacking isn't endless if you want to go on the offensive too. And again, Sorcs had undodgeable and unblockable CC before Summerset.For those who try and argue saying fear and fossilize is Also unblockable and undodgable. First off. They require you to be in MELEE RANGE. Not to mention DK’s don’t have the damage output a sorc does so they can’t burst you down as fast as a sorc can when you’re fossilized. They also both have shorter stun duration and don’t do stupid amounts of damage. Not to mention you can’t just kill them from 41 meters away like you can on a trash sorc.
Melee range isn't a disadvantage if your class kit is built for melee (DK, stamNB). Only ranged magBlade is somewhat disadvantaged with Mass Hysteria, but they run Reach and/or Cripple anyway. As for magDKs damage output I'm not experienced enough to judge it, but the consensus from class mains seems to be that damage isn't the issue magDK has (although whip being dodgeable hurt them a bit).
40k magic in no cp! How do you endure. I can barely get 30k stamina while still building for all the other things I need to survive the Sorc fest BG’s have become.
Melee isn’t a disadvantage for melee characters If everyone I fought couldn’t damage me until I got within 5 meters of them. Sadly that isn’t the reality of things. The reality of PvP is far different then Sorcs defending their class would have you believe. Arguments like this are comical and anyone who has spent longer than 10 minutes in PvP can see right through it.
The fact that any person can legitimately argue that Sorc is balanced right now boggles my mind. This game needs a lot of changes. They could start with balancing Sorc, nerfing Sloads, nerfing Masters dual wield, nerfing Zaans, nerfing Caluurions, and nerfing the defile CP passive. It would be a good start.
And of course, NB remains untouched. Because NB, which is currently far above DK, Warden and Temp, will regain solo top position once that pesky sorc competitor has been OHKO'd by the nerf hammer.
Right.
Every single Person I play with unanimously agrees the class is brokenly overpowered right now, and this includes Sorc Mains. Every one. This isn’t even a debate anymore amongst people who aren’t grossly biased towards the class. And IF you are a Sorc main and aren’t feeling this, I suggest you YouTube a good Sorc build while the good times last.
Yeah, sorc has never been nerfed. Never.
Do you even know what a DW magsorc is? Seen one recently?
And if we take sorc out of the picture... are you REALLY claiming Warden, Temp and DK are on par with NB?
SERIOUSLY???
And to answer your second question. In any other context aside from solo, open world PvP. Yes. They are better.
DW sorcs have quit way, way before Summerset.
And you're just completely in denial if you think NB is weaker than those other classes.
Shows how little you know.
DW sorcs resignated way before CwC. I'd say the changes to Trapping Webs began the mass exodus. And no one used an Asylum Destro in Cyro. Everyone went with Master's for well-known reasons.
I was for either damage buff to Frags or stun re-integration, not Cage damage. But what you see now is a functioning sorc burst, as it should be. It is just a little overtuned with too much damage. But still, this is how sorcs work by concept. I heard Cloak was made whole and OP, so sorcs shouldn't?
So, let me throw the questipn back:
Do yoi think sorc was fine before Summerset?
I agree Sorcs were not fine per-summerset. If they were to change Frags back to have a stun then other things need to be addressed. All passive dodge abilities would have to be removed. It's beyond frustrating to have some one running away in a strait line and dodge every skill except curse. How is that skill? Roll dodge may need to be looked as well. Cloak would also have to be reworked having a NB cloak right next to you or a group of folks is stupid. Sorcs would also need something to fight against perm-blockers.
And that's where no-damage Rune Cage comes in. Dodge/block counter at the cost of burst damage, but Frags being strong enough to kill, if pressured beforehand.
Honestly I don't think thats a bad Idea however I would like to see a bit more damage added back to frags then.
I thought about 20%, compensating for Empower.
Feel like I'm wasting my time. You want Rune Cage nerfed, but you don't want compensation otherplace. Obviously, you just wanna trash sorc. I am done here.0 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
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LOL
LOL they didn’t quit. They just switched to better builds. Especially when the Asylum Destro was first introduced. Just stop. Let me ask you this? Do you think Sorc is fine as is?
What are you even rambling on about?. You don’t see Dual Wield Sorcs because you would be an idiot to run one with the direct and indirect buffs Sorcs received from Destro staff counting as a two item set piece, Rune buff, and light/heavy attack damage buff. Are you actually crying because destro/resto sorc got so buffed as to make Dual Wield obsolete? The Sorc struggle is real lol.
Nightblade has been nerfed as much or more than every class you just mentioned. Sorc has escaped nerfs that other classes have been decimated with. A good example is Dark Deal remaining in the game when every other class had its sustain mechanics trashed. NB is good 1v1. At best. Sorc on the other hand is on a whole new level. But you know that.
You leave out the fact that sorc damage was buffed three fold with destro staff counting as 2 set pieces, light attack damage being buffed and Rune doing its damage up front. Arguments like “if the 2-4K damage from Rune killed you, you were going to die anyway” are complete and utter BS. That 2-4K hitting in the same GCD is now more than enough to put you in execute which should already be sitting on you like a ticking time bomb.Here’s some insight for you sorc fanboys who don’t know PvP outside your endless shield spam.
QQ rants don't equate to insight.Templars have bad dps compared to other classes, their jabs don’t even land most of the time and literally any player with any form of skill is easily able to dodge and evade the jab spam. All templars are essentially good for is turtling up and block castin BoL which basically makes them into a tank and does no damage. They can hardly kill any good class because they’re so vulnerable on offense you can literally smack a Templar in the face with a burst combo if they’re trying to go in the offensive. Their only form of dps is jabs and PoTL or purifying light combo which is the easiest burst to avoid. If you still cry about magplars being OP you’ve never played a Templar nor do you realize how difficult it is to actually do damage and have decent survivability on one.
Templar is a class that totally shines in a group setting but is very lacking when you run solo. A well played Templar makes a huge difference in a group. A Sorc not so much. You just can't compare the two classes as they function completely different. I'm all for giving Templar their soul back, but that has nothing to do with the OPness of Sorcs.Magsorcs have the easiest burst in the entire game. I don’t want to hear a stupid argument of “hrrr durrr stam haz their combo ez just Dawnbreaker spin 2 win” first off. You can block and dodge a dawnbreaker. You can block spin to win. Crying about DB spin to win combo is a l2p issue same with dying to a perma jab spammer. You just suck.
The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).Now back on the topic of sorcs. Rune cage is an uunblockable, undodgeable cc which has a massive range, relatively cheap cost, does a significant amount of damage, and has the longest stun duration. This has no counter play.
3k+ magicka (depending on LA passives) isn't "relatively cheap". Granted, the skill shouldn't have burst damage, but the rest of its functionality is exactly the same as before Summerset (hint: no one complained about it then).Don’t try and say “get more health” not all builds revolve around having a bunch of health.
I agree on that, but running a low health build is a build decision, and nothing you can complain about. At least that's what Sorcs get told all the time on the topic of Oblivion damage.Don’t try and say “get more stam, cc break”
In cyrodiil with lag already crazy enough as it is. Most of the time it’s not going to register you spamming your trigger buttons to cc break in time before the trash no skill sorc gives you the ez wombo combo burst.
I believe that's the main issue, and it isn't a Sorc specific one. CC is broken fundamentally in the game, and has been with specific CC skills for years (see Mass Hysteria for that). Fixing CC is the solution then.In non CP if you’re on a mag. Chances are you’re going to die pretty easily due to the fact that you have almost no stam, cc breaking takes half of it away, that’s not including having to use stam for blocking roll dodging or sprinting on a mag in non cp. so essentially you’re going to be hit with a full sorc burst and you cannot do a single thing about it.
I'm running with 16k stam on my noCP mSorc. Again, it's a conscious build decision if you run with less in favor of having a larger health and mag pool. If you want to know, a Sorc doesn't survive with 10k stam in noCP either.There’s is no counter play to an undodgeable unblockable cc with huge range. It’s an absolute joke for sorcs. Curse, meteor, rune cage, frags, excecute. Takes no skill and has no counter play. This is isn’t an “l2p” issue. It’s a “sorcs are ignorant af and don’t want their trash no skill builds nerfed or else they’ll cry like the babies they are” issue
Break free and roll dodge. If the 2k to 4k damage Rune Cage does now really kills you, you wouldn't have survived the follow up anyway. The exact same combination was possible before Summerset - without the Rune Cage damage.Please tell me how endless shield stacking and unblockable Undodgeable cc’s are balanced.
A typical Sorc build without pets or Necro/Shadowrend will be around 40k mag in noCP. Sgield stacking isn't endless if you want to go on the offensive too. And again, Sorcs had undodgeable and unblockable CC before Summerset.For those who try and argue saying fear and fossilize is Also unblockable and undodgable. First off. They require you to be in MELEE RANGE. Not to mention DK’s don’t have the damage output a sorc does so they can’t burst you down as fast as a sorc can when you’re fossilized. They also both have shorter stun duration and don’t do stupid amounts of damage. Not to mention you can’t just kill them from 41 meters away like you can on a trash sorc.
Melee range isn't a disadvantage if your class kit is built for melee (DK, stamNB). Only ranged magBlade is somewhat disadvantaged with Mass Hysteria, but they run Reach and/or Cripple anyway. As for magDKs damage output I'm not experienced enough to judge it, but the consensus from class mains seems to be that damage isn't the issue magDK has (although whip being dodgeable hurt them a bit).
40k magic in no cp! How do you endure. I can barely get 30k stamina while still building for all the other things I need to survive the Sorc fest BG’s have become.
Melee isn’t a disadvantage for melee characters If everyone I fought couldn’t damage me until I got within 5 meters of them. Sadly that isn’t the reality of things. The reality of PvP is far different then Sorcs defending their class would have you believe. Arguments like this are comical and anyone who has spent longer than 10 minutes in PvP can see right through it.
The fact that any person can legitimately argue that Sorc is balanced right now boggles my mind. This game needs a lot of changes. They could start with balancing Sorc, nerfing Sloads, nerfing Masters dual wield, nerfing Zaans, nerfing Caluurions, and nerfing the defile CP passive. It would be a good start.
And of course, NB remains untouched. Because NB, which is currently far above DK, Warden and Temp, will regain solo top position once that pesky sorc competitor has been OHKO'd by the nerf hammer.
Right.
Every single Person I play with unanimously agrees the class is brokenly overpowered right now, and this includes Sorc Mains. Every one. This isn’t even a debate anymore amongst people who aren’t grossly biased towards the class. And IF you are a Sorc main and aren’t feeling this, I suggest you YouTube a good Sorc build while the good times last.
Yeah, sorc has never been nerfed. Never.
Do you even know what a DW magsorc is? Seen one recently?
And if we take sorc out of the picture... are you REALLY claiming Warden, Temp and DK are on par with NB?
SERIOUSLY???
And to answer your second question. In any other context aside from solo, open world PvP. Yes. They are better.
DW sorcs have quit way, way before Summerset.
And you're just completely in denial if you think NB is weaker than those other classes.
Shows how little you know.
DW sorcs resignated way before CwC. I'd say the changes to Trapping Webs began the mass exodus. And no one used an Asylum Destro in Cyro. Everyone went with Master's for well-known reasons.
I was for either damage buff to Frags or stun re-integration, not Cage damage. But what you see now is a functioning sorc burst, as it should be. It is just a little overtuned with too much damage. But still, this is how sorcs work by concept. I heard Cloak was made whole and OP, so sorcs shouldn't?
So, let me throw the questipn back:
Do yoi think sorc was fine before Summerset?
I agree Sorcs were not fine per-summerset. If they were to change Frags back to have a stun then other things need to be addressed. All passive dodge abilities would have to be removed. It's beyond frustrating to have some one running away in a strait line and dodge every skill except curse. How is that skill? Roll dodge may need to be looked as well. Cloak would also have to be reworked having a NB cloak right next to you or a group of folks is stupid. Sorcs would also need something to fight against perm-blockers.
And that's where no-damage Rune Cage comes in. Dodge/block counter at the cost of burst damage, but Frags being strong enough to kill, if pressured beforehand.
Honestly I don't think thats a bad Idea however I would like to see a bit more damage added back to frags then.
I thought about 20%, compensating for Empower.
Feel like I'm wasting my time. You want Rune Cage nerfed, but you don't want compensation otherplace. Obviously, you just wanna trash sorc. I am done here.
Id be fine with restoring frags if rune cage is nerfed. Maybe it isnt too much to ask for a stam morph of frags (rework crystal blast)2 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
LOL
LOL they didn’t quit. They just switched to better builds. Especially when the Asylum Destro was first introduced. Just stop. Let me ask you this? Do you think Sorc is fine as is?
What are you even rambling on about?. You don’t see Dual Wield Sorcs because you would be an idiot to run one with the direct and indirect buffs Sorcs received from Destro staff counting as a two item set piece, Rune buff, and light/heavy attack damage buff. Are you actually crying because destro/resto sorc got so buffed as to make Dual Wield obsolete? The Sorc struggle is real lol.
Nightblade has been nerfed as much or more than every class you just mentioned. Sorc has escaped nerfs that other classes have been decimated with. A good example is Dark Deal remaining in the game when every other class had its sustain mechanics trashed. NB is good 1v1. At best. Sorc on the other hand is on a whole new level. But you know that.
You leave out the fact that sorc damage was buffed three fold with destro staff counting as 2 set pieces, light attack damage being buffed and Rune doing its damage up front. Arguments like “if the 2-4K damage from Rune killed you, you were going to die anyway” are complete and utter BS. That 2-4K hitting in the same GCD is now more than enough to put you in execute which should already be sitting on you like a ticking time bomb.Here’s some insight for you sorc fanboys who don’t know PvP outside your endless shield spam.
QQ rants don't equate to insight.Templars have bad dps compared to other classes, their jabs don’t even land most of the time and literally any player with any form of skill is easily able to dodge and evade the jab spam. All templars are essentially good for is turtling up and block castin BoL which basically makes them into a tank and does no damage. They can hardly kill any good class because they’re so vulnerable on offense you can literally smack a Templar in the face with a burst combo if they’re trying to go in the offensive. Their only form of dps is jabs and PoTL or purifying light combo which is the easiest burst to avoid. If you still cry about magplars being OP you’ve never played a Templar nor do you realize how difficult it is to actually do damage and have decent survivability on one.
Templar is a class that totally shines in a group setting but is very lacking when you run solo. A well played Templar makes a huge difference in a group. A Sorc not so much. You just can't compare the two classes as they function completely different. I'm all for giving Templar their soul back, but that has nothing to do with the OPness of Sorcs.Magsorcs have the easiest burst in the entire game. I don’t want to hear a stupid argument of “hrrr durrr stam haz their combo ez just Dawnbreaker spin 2 win” first off. You can block and dodge a dawnbreaker. You can block spin to win. Crying about DB spin to win combo is a l2p issue same with dying to a perma jab spammer. You just suck.
The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).Now back on the topic of sorcs. Rune cage is an uunblockable, undodgeable cc which has a massive range, relatively cheap cost, does a significant amount of damage, and has the longest stun duration. This has no counter play.
3k+ magicka (depending on LA passives) isn't "relatively cheap". Granted, the skill shouldn't have burst damage, but the rest of its functionality is exactly the same as before Summerset (hint: no one complained about it then).Don’t try and say “get more health” not all builds revolve around having a bunch of health.
I agree on that, but running a low health build is a build decision, and nothing you can complain about. At least that's what Sorcs get told all the time on the topic of Oblivion damage.Don’t try and say “get more stam, cc break”
In cyrodiil with lag already crazy enough as it is. Most of the time it’s not going to register you spamming your trigger buttons to cc break in time before the trash no skill sorc gives you the ez wombo combo burst.
I believe that's the main issue, and it isn't a Sorc specific one. CC is broken fundamentally in the game, and has been with specific CC skills for years (see Mass Hysteria for that). Fixing CC is the solution then.In non CP if you’re on a mag. Chances are you’re going to die pretty easily due to the fact that you have almost no stam, cc breaking takes half of it away, that’s not including having to use stam for blocking roll dodging or sprinting on a mag in non cp. so essentially you’re going to be hit with a full sorc burst and you cannot do a single thing about it.
I'm running with 16k stam on my noCP mSorc. Again, it's a conscious build decision if you run with less in favor of having a larger health and mag pool. If you want to know, a Sorc doesn't survive with 10k stam in noCP either.There’s is no counter play to an undodgeable unblockable cc with huge range. It’s an absolute joke for sorcs. Curse, meteor, rune cage, frags, excecute. Takes no skill and has no counter play. This is isn’t an “l2p” issue. It’s a “sorcs are ignorant af and don’t want their trash no skill builds nerfed or else they’ll cry like the babies they are” issue
Break free and roll dodge. If the 2k to 4k damage Rune Cage does now really kills you, you wouldn't have survived the follow up anyway. The exact same combination was possible before Summerset - without the Rune Cage damage.Please tell me how endless shield stacking and unblockable Undodgeable cc’s are balanced.
A typical Sorc build without pets or Necro/Shadowrend will be around 40k mag in noCP. Sgield stacking isn't endless if you want to go on the offensive too. And again, Sorcs had undodgeable and unblockable CC before Summerset.For those who try and argue saying fear and fossilize is Also unblockable and undodgable. First off. They require you to be in MELEE RANGE. Not to mention DK’s don’t have the damage output a sorc does so they can’t burst you down as fast as a sorc can when you’re fossilized. They also both have shorter stun duration and don’t do stupid amounts of damage. Not to mention you can’t just kill them from 41 meters away like you can on a trash sorc.
Melee range isn't a disadvantage if your class kit is built for melee (DK, stamNB). Only ranged magBlade is somewhat disadvantaged with Mass Hysteria, but they run Reach and/or Cripple anyway. As for magDKs damage output I'm not experienced enough to judge it, but the consensus from class mains seems to be that damage isn't the issue magDK has (although whip being dodgeable hurt them a bit).
40k magic in no cp! How do you endure. I can barely get 30k stamina while still building for all the other things I need to survive the Sorc fest BG’s have become.
Melee isn’t a disadvantage for melee characters If everyone I fought couldn’t damage me until I got within 5 meters of them. Sadly that isn’t the reality of things. The reality of PvP is far different then Sorcs defending their class would have you believe. Arguments like this are comical and anyone who has spent longer than 10 minutes in PvP can see right through it.
The fact that any person can legitimately argue that Sorc is balanced right now boggles my mind. This game needs a lot of changes. They could start with balancing Sorc, nerfing Sloads, nerfing Masters dual wield, nerfing Zaans, nerfing Caluurions, and nerfing the defile CP passive. It would be a good start.
And of course, NB remains untouched. Because NB, which is currently far above DK, Warden and Temp, will regain solo top position once that pesky sorc competitor has been OHKO'd by the nerf hammer.
Right.
Every single Person I play with unanimously agrees the class is brokenly overpowered right now, and this includes Sorc Mains. Every one. This isn’t even a debate anymore amongst people who aren’t grossly biased towards the class. And IF you are a Sorc main and aren’t feeling this, I suggest you YouTube a good Sorc build while the good times last.
Yeah, sorc has never been nerfed. Never.
Do you even know what a DW magsorc is? Seen one recently?
And if we take sorc out of the picture... are you REALLY claiming Warden, Temp and DK are on par with NB?
SERIOUSLY???
And to answer your second question. In any other context aside from solo, open world PvP. Yes. They are better.
DW sorcs have quit way, way before Summerset.
And you're just completely in denial if you think NB is weaker than those other classes.
Shows how little you know.
DW sorcs resignated way before CwC. I'd say the changes to Trapping Webs began the mass exodus. And no one used an Asylum Destro in Cyro. Everyone went with Master's for well-known reasons.
I was for either damage buff to Frags or stun re-integration, not Cage damage. But what you see now is a functioning sorc burst, as it should be. It is just a little overtuned with too much damage. But still, this is how sorcs work by concept. I heard Cloak was made whole and OP, so sorcs shouldn't?
So, let me throw the questipn back:
Do yoi think sorc was fine before Summerset?
I agree Sorcs were not fine per-summerset. If they were to change Frags back to have a stun then other things need to be addressed. All passive dodge abilities would have to be removed. It's beyond frustrating to have some one running away in a strait line and dodge every skill except curse. How is that skill? Roll dodge may need to be looked as well. Cloak would also have to be reworked having a NB cloak right next to you or a group of folks is stupid. Sorcs would also need something to fight against perm-blockers.
And that's where no-damage Rune Cage comes in. Dodge/block counter at the cost of burst damage, but Frags being strong enough to kill, if pressured beforehand.
Honestly I don't think thats a bad Idea however I would like to see a bit more damage added back to frags then.
I thought about 20%, compensating for Empower.
Feel like I'm wasting my time. You want Rune Cage nerfed, but you don't want compensation otherplace. Obviously, you just wanna trash sorc. I am done here.
Id be fine with restoring frags if rune cage is nerfed. Maybe it isnt too much to ask for a stam morph of frags (rework crystal blast)
Now, THAT'S how you go about balancing!
I agree!
=D0 -
Durham✭✭✭✭✭
✭Play an stam DK / stam templar and it feels like your playing DUCK HUNT!!!!
AND YOUR THE DUCK!!!!
Range damage right now is crazy melee is hurting ... CC has been increased greatly since the last patch ... You run in to attack even with your snare immunity your dead with all the bubbles and stuns and defiles ... Its not that much fun at the moment if your melee.... When you charge there better be a tree or rock so you can duck behind if there isnt your toast ....
This is not balance ..PVP DEADWAIT
PVP The Unguildables5 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
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LOL
LOL they didn’t quit. They just switched to better builds. Especially when the Asylum Destro was first introduced. Just stop. Let me ask you this? Do you think Sorc is fine as is?
What are you even rambling on about?. You don’t see Dual Wield Sorcs because you would be an idiot to run one with the direct and indirect buffs Sorcs received from Destro staff counting as a two item set piece, Rune buff, and light/heavy attack damage buff. Are you actually crying because destro/resto sorc got so buffed as to make Dual Wield obsolete? The Sorc struggle is real lol.
Nightblade has been nerfed as much or more than every class you just mentioned. Sorc has escaped nerfs that other classes have been decimated with. A good example is Dark Deal remaining in the game when every other class had its sustain mechanics trashed. NB is good 1v1. At best. Sorc on the other hand is on a whole new level. But you know that.
You leave out the fact that sorc damage was buffed three fold with destro staff counting as 2 set pieces, light attack damage being buffed and Rune doing its damage up front. Arguments like “if the 2-4K damage from Rune killed you, you were going to die anyway” are complete and utter BS. That 2-4K hitting in the same GCD is now more than enough to put you in execute which should already be sitting on you like a ticking time bomb.Here’s some insight for you sorc fanboys who don’t know PvP outside your endless shield spam.
QQ rants don't equate to insight.Templars have bad dps compared to other classes, their jabs don’t even land most of the time and literally any player with any form of skill is easily able to dodge and evade the jab spam. All templars are essentially good for is turtling up and block castin BoL which basically makes them into a tank and does no damage. They can hardly kill any good class because they’re so vulnerable on offense you can literally smack a Templar in the face with a burst combo if they’re trying to go in the offensive. Their only form of dps is jabs and PoTL or purifying light combo which is the easiest burst to avoid. If you still cry about magplars being OP you’ve never played a Templar nor do you realize how difficult it is to actually do damage and have decent survivability on one.
Templar is a class that totally shines in a group setting but is very lacking when you run solo. A well played Templar makes a huge difference in a group. A Sorc not so much. You just can't compare the two classes as they function completely different. I'm all for giving Templar their soul back, but that has nothing to do with the OPness of Sorcs.Magsorcs have the easiest burst in the entire game. I don’t want to hear a stupid argument of “hrrr durrr stam haz their combo ez just Dawnbreaker spin 2 win” first off. You can block and dodge a dawnbreaker. You can block spin to win. Crying about DB spin to win combo is a l2p issue same with dying to a perma jab spammer. You just suck.
The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).Now back on the topic of sorcs. Rune cage is an uunblockable, undodgeable cc which has a massive range, relatively cheap cost, does a significant amount of damage, and has the longest stun duration. This has no counter play.
3k+ magicka (depending on LA passives) isn't "relatively cheap". Granted, the skill shouldn't have burst damage, but the rest of its functionality is exactly the same as before Summerset (hint: no one complained about it then).Don’t try and say “get more health” not all builds revolve around having a bunch of health.
I agree on that, but running a low health build is a build decision, and nothing you can complain about. At least that's what Sorcs get told all the time on the topic of Oblivion damage.Don’t try and say “get more stam, cc break”
In cyrodiil with lag already crazy enough as it is. Most of the time it’s not going to register you spamming your trigger buttons to cc break in time before the trash no skill sorc gives you the ez wombo combo burst.
I believe that's the main issue, and it isn't a Sorc specific one. CC is broken fundamentally in the game, and has been with specific CC skills for years (see Mass Hysteria for that). Fixing CC is the solution then.In non CP if you’re on a mag. Chances are you’re going to die pretty easily due to the fact that you have almost no stam, cc breaking takes half of it away, that’s not including having to use stam for blocking roll dodging or sprinting on a mag in non cp. so essentially you’re going to be hit with a full sorc burst and you cannot do a single thing about it.
I'm running with 16k stam on my noCP mSorc. Again, it's a conscious build decision if you run with less in favor of having a larger health and mag pool. If you want to know, a Sorc doesn't survive with 10k stam in noCP either.There’s is no counter play to an undodgeable unblockable cc with huge range. It’s an absolute joke for sorcs. Curse, meteor, rune cage, frags, excecute. Takes no skill and has no counter play. This is isn’t an “l2p” issue. It’s a “sorcs are ignorant af and don’t want their trash no skill builds nerfed or else they’ll cry like the babies they are” issue
Break free and roll dodge. If the 2k to 4k damage Rune Cage does now really kills you, you wouldn't have survived the follow up anyway. The exact same combination was possible before Summerset - without the Rune Cage damage.Please tell me how endless shield stacking and unblockable Undodgeable cc’s are balanced.
A typical Sorc build without pets or Necro/Shadowrend will be around 40k mag in noCP. Sgield stacking isn't endless if you want to go on the offensive too. And again, Sorcs had undodgeable and unblockable CC before Summerset.For those who try and argue saying fear and fossilize is Also unblockable and undodgable. First off. They require you to be in MELEE RANGE. Not to mention DK’s don’t have the damage output a sorc does so they can’t burst you down as fast as a sorc can when you’re fossilized. They also both have shorter stun duration and don’t do stupid amounts of damage. Not to mention you can’t just kill them from 41 meters away like you can on a trash sorc.
Melee range isn't a disadvantage if your class kit is built for melee (DK, stamNB). Only ranged magBlade is somewhat disadvantaged with Mass Hysteria, but they run Reach and/or Cripple anyway. As for magDKs damage output I'm not experienced enough to judge it, but the consensus from class mains seems to be that damage isn't the issue magDK has (although whip being dodgeable hurt them a bit).
40k magic in no cp! How do you endure. I can barely get 30k stamina while still building for all the other things I need to survive the Sorc fest BG’s have become.
Melee isn’t a disadvantage for melee characters If everyone I fought couldn’t damage me until I got within 5 meters of them. Sadly that isn’t the reality of things. The reality of PvP is far different then Sorcs defending their class would have you believe. Arguments like this are comical and anyone who has spent longer than 10 minutes in PvP can see right through it.
The fact that any person can legitimately argue that Sorc is balanced right now boggles my mind. This game needs a lot of changes. They could start with balancing Sorc, nerfing Sloads, nerfing Masters dual wield, nerfing Zaans, nerfing Caluurions, and nerfing the defile CP passive. It would be a good start.
And of course, NB remains untouched. Because NB, which is currently far above DK, Warden and Temp, will regain solo top position once that pesky sorc competitor has been OHKO'd by the nerf hammer.
Right.
Every single Person I play with unanimously agrees the class is brokenly overpowered right now, and this includes Sorc Mains. Every one. This isn’t even a debate anymore amongst people who aren’t grossly biased towards the class. And IF you are a Sorc main and aren’t feeling this, I suggest you YouTube a good Sorc build while the good times last.
Yeah, sorc has never been nerfed. Never.
Do you even know what a DW magsorc is? Seen one recently?
And if we take sorc out of the picture... are you REALLY claiming Warden, Temp and DK are on par with NB?
SERIOUSLY???
And to answer your second question. In any other context aside from solo, open world PvP. Yes. They are better.
DW sorcs have quit way, way before Summerset.
And you're just completely in denial if you think NB is weaker than those other classes.
Shows how little you know.
DW sorcs resignated way before CwC. I'd say the changes to Trapping Webs began the mass exodus. And no one used an Asylum Destro in Cyro. Everyone went with Master's for well-known reasons.
I was for either damage buff to Frags or stun re-integration, not Cage damage. But what you see now is a functioning sorc burst, as it should be. It is just a little overtuned with too much damage. But still, this is how sorcs work by concept. I heard Cloak was made whole and OP, so sorcs shouldn't?
So, let me throw the questipn back:
Do yoi think sorc was fine before Summerset?
I agree Sorcs were not fine per-summerset. If they were to change Frags back to have a stun then other things need to be addressed. All passive dodge abilities would have to be removed. It's beyond frustrating to have some one running away in a strait line and dodge every skill except curse. How is that skill? Roll dodge may need to be looked as well. Cloak would also have to be reworked having a NB cloak right next to you or a group of folks is stupid. Sorcs would also need something to fight against perm-blockers.
And that's where no-damage Rune Cage comes in. Dodge/block counter at the cost of burst damage, but Frags being strong enough to kill, if pressured beforehand.
Honestly I don't think thats a bad Idea however I would like to see a bit more damage added back to frags then.
I thought about 20%, compensating for Empower.
Feel like I'm wasting my time. You want Rune Cage nerfed, but you don't want compensation otherplace. Obviously, you just wanna trash sorc. I am done here.
Id be fine with restoring frags if rune cage is nerfed. Maybe it isnt too much to ask for a stam morph of frags (rework crystal blast)
Now, THAT'S how you go about balancing!
I agree!
=D
It would actually have to be closer to a 40% buff to frags. 20% would be around 1k more damage range cage is about 2k damage.1 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
LOL
LOL they didn’t quit. They just switched to better builds. Especially when the Asylum Destro was first introduced. Just stop. Let me ask you this? Do you think Sorc is fine as is?
What are you even rambling on about?. You don’t see Dual Wield Sorcs because you would be an idiot to run one with the direct and indirect buffs Sorcs received from Destro staff counting as a two item set piece, Rune buff, and light/heavy attack damage buff. Are you actually crying because destro/resto sorc got so buffed as to make Dual Wield obsolete? The Sorc struggle is real lol.
Nightblade has been nerfed as much or more than every class you just mentioned. Sorc has escaped nerfs that other classes have been decimated with. A good example is Dark Deal remaining in the game when every other class had its sustain mechanics trashed. NB is good 1v1. At best. Sorc on the other hand is on a whole new level. But you know that.
You leave out the fact that sorc damage was buffed three fold with destro staff counting as 2 set pieces, light attack damage being buffed and Rune doing its damage up front. Arguments like “if the 2-4K damage from Rune killed you, you were going to die anyway” are complete and utter BS. That 2-4K hitting in the same GCD is now more than enough to put you in execute which should already be sitting on you like a ticking time bomb.Here’s some insight for you sorc fanboys who don’t know PvP outside your endless shield spam.
QQ rants don't equate to insight.Templars have bad dps compared to other classes, their jabs don’t even land most of the time and literally any player with any form of skill is easily able to dodge and evade the jab spam. All templars are essentially good for is turtling up and block castin BoL which basically makes them into a tank and does no damage. They can hardly kill any good class because they’re so vulnerable on offense you can literally smack a Templar in the face with a burst combo if they’re trying to go in the offensive. Their only form of dps is jabs and PoTL or purifying light combo which is the easiest burst to avoid. If you still cry about magplars being OP you’ve never played a Templar nor do you realize how difficult it is to actually do damage and have decent survivability on one.
Templar is a class that totally shines in a group setting but is very lacking when you run solo. A well played Templar makes a huge difference in a group. A Sorc not so much. You just can't compare the two classes as they function completely different. I'm all for giving Templar their soul back, but that has nothing to do with the OPness of Sorcs.Magsorcs have the easiest burst in the entire game. I don’t want to hear a stupid argument of “hrrr durrr stam haz their combo ez just Dawnbreaker spin 2 win” first off. You can block and dodge a dawnbreaker. You can block spin to win. Crying about DB spin to win combo is a l2p issue same with dying to a perma jab spammer. You just suck.
The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).Now back on the topic of sorcs. Rune cage is an uunblockable, undodgeable cc which has a massive range, relatively cheap cost, does a significant amount of damage, and has the longest stun duration. This has no counter play.
3k+ magicka (depending on LA passives) isn't "relatively cheap". Granted, the skill shouldn't have burst damage, but the rest of its functionality is exactly the same as before Summerset (hint: no one complained about it then).Don’t try and say “get more health” not all builds revolve around having a bunch of health.
I agree on that, but running a low health build is a build decision, and nothing you can complain about. At least that's what Sorcs get told all the time on the topic of Oblivion damage.Don’t try and say “get more stam, cc break”
In cyrodiil with lag already crazy enough as it is. Most of the time it’s not going to register you spamming your trigger buttons to cc break in time before the trash no skill sorc gives you the ez wombo combo burst.
I believe that's the main issue, and it isn't a Sorc specific one. CC is broken fundamentally in the game, and has been with specific CC skills for years (see Mass Hysteria for that). Fixing CC is the solution then.In non CP if you’re on a mag. Chances are you’re going to die pretty easily due to the fact that you have almost no stam, cc breaking takes half of it away, that’s not including having to use stam for blocking roll dodging or sprinting on a mag in non cp. so essentially you’re going to be hit with a full sorc burst and you cannot do a single thing about it.
I'm running with 16k stam on my noCP mSorc. Again, it's a conscious build decision if you run with less in favor of having a larger health and mag pool. If you want to know, a Sorc doesn't survive with 10k stam in noCP either.There’s is no counter play to an undodgeable unblockable cc with huge range. It’s an absolute joke for sorcs. Curse, meteor, rune cage, frags, excecute. Takes no skill and has no counter play. This is isn’t an “l2p” issue. It’s a “sorcs are ignorant af and don’t want their trash no skill builds nerfed or else they’ll cry like the babies they are” issue
Break free and roll dodge. If the 2k to 4k damage Rune Cage does now really kills you, you wouldn't have survived the follow up anyway. The exact same combination was possible before Summerset - without the Rune Cage damage.Please tell me how endless shield stacking and unblockable Undodgeable cc’s are balanced.
A typical Sorc build without pets or Necro/Shadowrend will be around 40k mag in noCP. Sgield stacking isn't endless if you want to go on the offensive too. And again, Sorcs had undodgeable and unblockable CC before Summerset.For those who try and argue saying fear and fossilize is Also unblockable and undodgable. First off. They require you to be in MELEE RANGE. Not to mention DK’s don’t have the damage output a sorc does so they can’t burst you down as fast as a sorc can when you’re fossilized. They also both have shorter stun duration and don’t do stupid amounts of damage. Not to mention you can’t just kill them from 41 meters away like you can on a trash sorc.
Melee range isn't a disadvantage if your class kit is built for melee (DK, stamNB). Only ranged magBlade is somewhat disadvantaged with Mass Hysteria, but they run Reach and/or Cripple anyway. As for magDKs damage output I'm not experienced enough to judge it, but the consensus from class mains seems to be that damage isn't the issue magDK has (although whip being dodgeable hurt them a bit).
40k magic in no cp! How do you endure. I can barely get 30k stamina while still building for all the other things I need to survive the Sorc fest BG’s have become.
Melee isn’t a disadvantage for melee characters If everyone I fought couldn’t damage me until I got within 5 meters of them. Sadly that isn’t the reality of things. The reality of PvP is far different then Sorcs defending their class would have you believe. Arguments like this are comical and anyone who has spent longer than 10 minutes in PvP can see right through it.
The fact that any person can legitimately argue that Sorc is balanced right now boggles my mind. This game needs a lot of changes. They could start with balancing Sorc, nerfing Sloads, nerfing Masters dual wield, nerfing Zaans, nerfing Caluurions, and nerfing the defile CP passive. It would be a good start.
And of course, NB remains untouched. Because NB, which is currently far above DK, Warden and Temp, will regain solo top position once that pesky sorc competitor has been OHKO'd by the nerf hammer.
Right.
Every single Person I play with unanimously agrees the class is brokenly overpowered right now, and this includes Sorc Mains. Every one. This isn’t even a debate anymore amongst people who aren’t grossly biased towards the class. And IF you are a Sorc main and aren’t feeling this, I suggest you YouTube a good Sorc build while the good times last.
Yeah, sorc has never been nerfed. Never.
Do you even know what a DW magsorc is? Seen one recently?
And if we take sorc out of the picture... are you REALLY claiming Warden, Temp and DK are on par with NB?
SERIOUSLY???
And to answer your second question. In any other context aside from solo, open world PvP. Yes. They are better.
DW sorcs have quit way, way before Summerset.
And you're just completely in denial if you think NB is weaker than those other classes.
Shows how little you know.
DW sorcs resignated way before CwC. I'd say the changes to Trapping Webs began the mass exodus. And no one used an Asylum Destro in Cyro. Everyone went with Master's for well-known reasons.
I was for either damage buff to Frags or stun re-integration, not Cage damage. But what you see now is a functioning sorc burst, as it should be. It is just a little overtuned with too much damage. But still, this is how sorcs work by concept. I heard Cloak was made whole and OP, so sorcs shouldn't?
So, let me throw the questipn back:
Do yoi think sorc was fine before Summerset?
I agree Sorcs were not fine per-summerset. If they were to change Frags back to have a stun then other things need to be addressed. All passive dodge abilities would have to be removed. It's beyond frustrating to have some one running away in a strait line and dodge every skill except curse. How is that skill? Roll dodge may need to be looked as well. Cloak would also have to be reworked having a NB cloak right next to you or a group of folks is stupid. Sorcs would also need something to fight against perm-blockers.
And that's where no-damage Rune Cage comes in. Dodge/block counter at the cost of burst damage, but Frags being strong enough to kill, if pressured beforehand.
Honestly I don't think thats a bad Idea however I would like to see a bit more damage added back to frags then.
I thought about 20%, compensating for Empower.
Feel like I'm wasting my time. You want Rune Cage nerfed, but you don't want compensation otherplace. Obviously, you just wanna trash sorc. I am done here.
Id be fine with restoring frags if rune cage is nerfed. Maybe it isnt too much to ask for a stam morph of frags (rework crystal blast)
Now, THAT'S how you go about balancing!
I agree!
=D
It would actually have to be closer to a 40% buff to frags. 20% would be around 1k more damage range cage is about 2k damage.
No. It wouldn't. Rune was an over buff, nerfing rune doesn't mean that frags needs an overbuff too. Inb4 can't empower frags. LA buff more than made up for that.
EDIT: Perfectly fine with the stun,and 20% extra damage from before. Also maybe a ST unblockable stun on one of the bolt morphs.Edited by ak_pvp on July 4, 2018 5:13AMMagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.5 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
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LOL
LOL they didn’t quit. They just switched to better builds. Especially when the Asylum Destro was first introduced. Just stop. Let me ask you this? Do you think Sorc is fine as is?
What are you even rambling on about?. You don’t see Dual Wield Sorcs because you would be an idiot to run one with the direct and indirect buffs Sorcs received from Destro staff counting as a two item set piece, Rune buff, and light/heavy attack damage buff. Are you actually crying because destro/resto sorc got so buffed as to make Dual Wield obsolete? The Sorc struggle is real lol.
Nightblade has been nerfed as much or more than every class you just mentioned. Sorc has escaped nerfs that other classes have been decimated with. A good example is Dark Deal remaining in the game when every other class had its sustain mechanics trashed. NB is good 1v1. At best. Sorc on the other hand is on a whole new level. But you know that.
You leave out the fact that sorc damage was buffed three fold with destro staff counting as 2 set pieces, light attack damage being buffed and Rune doing its damage up front. Arguments like “if the 2-4K damage from Rune killed you, you were going to die anyway” are complete and utter BS. That 2-4K hitting in the same GCD is now more than enough to put you in execute which should already be sitting on you like a ticking time bomb.Here’s some insight for you sorc fanboys who don’t know PvP outside your endless shield spam.
QQ rants don't equate to insight.Templars have bad dps compared to other classes, their jabs don’t even land most of the time and literally any player with any form of skill is easily able to dodge and evade the jab spam. All templars are essentially good for is turtling up and block castin BoL which basically makes them into a tank and does no damage. They can hardly kill any good class because they’re so vulnerable on offense you can literally smack a Templar in the face with a burst combo if they’re trying to go in the offensive. Their only form of dps is jabs and PoTL or purifying light combo which is the easiest burst to avoid. If you still cry about magplars being OP you’ve never played a Templar nor do you realize how difficult it is to actually do damage and have decent survivability on one.
Templar is a class that totally shines in a group setting but is very lacking when you run solo. A well played Templar makes a huge difference in a group. A Sorc not so much. You just can't compare the two classes as they function completely different. I'm all for giving Templar their soul back, but that has nothing to do with the OPness of Sorcs.Magsorcs have the easiest burst in the entire game. I don’t want to hear a stupid argument of “hrrr durrr stam haz their combo ez just Dawnbreaker spin 2 win” first off. You can block and dodge a dawnbreaker. You can block spin to win. Crying about DB spin to win combo is a l2p issue same with dying to a perma jab spammer. You just suck.
The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).Now back on the topic of sorcs. Rune cage is an uunblockable, undodgeable cc which has a massive range, relatively cheap cost, does a significant amount of damage, and has the longest stun duration. This has no counter play.
3k+ magicka (depending on LA passives) isn't "relatively cheap". Granted, the skill shouldn't have burst damage, but the rest of its functionality is exactly the same as before Summerset (hint: no one complained about it then).Don’t try and say “get more health” not all builds revolve around having a bunch of health.
I agree on that, but running a low health build is a build decision, and nothing you can complain about. At least that's what Sorcs get told all the time on the topic of Oblivion damage.Don’t try and say “get more stam, cc break”
In cyrodiil with lag already crazy enough as it is. Most of the time it’s not going to register you spamming your trigger buttons to cc break in time before the trash no skill sorc gives you the ez wombo combo burst.
I believe that's the main issue, and it isn't a Sorc specific one. CC is broken fundamentally in the game, and has been with specific CC skills for years (see Mass Hysteria for that). Fixing CC is the solution then.In non CP if you’re on a mag. Chances are you’re going to die pretty easily due to the fact that you have almost no stam, cc breaking takes half of it away, that’s not including having to use stam for blocking roll dodging or sprinting on a mag in non cp. so essentially you’re going to be hit with a full sorc burst and you cannot do a single thing about it.
I'm running with 16k stam on my noCP mSorc. Again, it's a conscious build decision if you run with less in favor of having a larger health and mag pool. If you want to know, a Sorc doesn't survive with 10k stam in noCP either.There’s is no counter play to an undodgeable unblockable cc with huge range. It’s an absolute joke for sorcs. Curse, meteor, rune cage, frags, excecute. Takes no skill and has no counter play. This is isn’t an “l2p” issue. It’s a “sorcs are ignorant af and don’t want their trash no skill builds nerfed or else they’ll cry like the babies they are” issue
Break free and roll dodge. If the 2k to 4k damage Rune Cage does now really kills you, you wouldn't have survived the follow up anyway. The exact same combination was possible before Summerset - without the Rune Cage damage.Please tell me how endless shield stacking and unblockable Undodgeable cc’s are balanced.
A typical Sorc build without pets or Necro/Shadowrend will be around 40k mag in noCP. Sgield stacking isn't endless if you want to go on the offensive too. And again, Sorcs had undodgeable and unblockable CC before Summerset.For those who try and argue saying fear and fossilize is Also unblockable and undodgable. First off. They require you to be in MELEE RANGE. Not to mention DK’s don’t have the damage output a sorc does so they can’t burst you down as fast as a sorc can when you’re fossilized. They also both have shorter stun duration and don’t do stupid amounts of damage. Not to mention you can’t just kill them from 41 meters away like you can on a trash sorc.
Melee range isn't a disadvantage if your class kit is built for melee (DK, stamNB). Only ranged magBlade is somewhat disadvantaged with Mass Hysteria, but they run Reach and/or Cripple anyway. As for magDKs damage output I'm not experienced enough to judge it, but the consensus from class mains seems to be that damage isn't the issue magDK has (although whip being dodgeable hurt them a bit).
40k magic in no cp! How do you endure. I can barely get 30k stamina while still building for all the other things I need to survive the Sorc fest BG’s have become.
Melee isn’t a disadvantage for melee characters If everyone I fought couldn’t damage me until I got within 5 meters of them. Sadly that isn’t the reality of things. The reality of PvP is far different then Sorcs defending their class would have you believe. Arguments like this are comical and anyone who has spent longer than 10 minutes in PvP can see right through it.
The fact that any person can legitimately argue that Sorc is balanced right now boggles my mind. This game needs a lot of changes. They could start with balancing Sorc, nerfing Sloads, nerfing Masters dual wield, nerfing Zaans, nerfing Caluurions, and nerfing the defile CP passive. It would be a good start.
And of course, NB remains untouched. Because NB, which is currently far above DK, Warden and Temp, will regain solo top position once that pesky sorc competitor has been OHKO'd by the nerf hammer.
Right.
Every single Person I play with unanimously agrees the class is brokenly overpowered right now, and this includes Sorc Mains. Every one. This isn’t even a debate anymore amongst people who aren’t grossly biased towards the class. And IF you are a Sorc main and aren’t feeling this, I suggest you YouTube a good Sorc build while the good times last.
Yeah, sorc has never been nerfed. Never.
Do you even know what a DW magsorc is? Seen one recently?
And if we take sorc out of the picture... are you REALLY claiming Warden, Temp and DK are on par with NB?
SERIOUSLY???
And to answer your second question. In any other context aside from solo, open world PvP. Yes. They are better.
DW sorcs have quit way, way before Summerset.
And you're just completely in denial if you think NB is weaker than those other classes.
Shows how little you know.
DW sorcs resignated way before CwC. I'd say the changes to Trapping Webs began the mass exodus. And no one used an Asylum Destro in Cyro. Everyone went with Master's for well-known reasons.
I was for either damage buff to Frags or stun re-integration, not Cage damage. But what you see now is a functioning sorc burst, as it should be. It is just a little overtuned with too much damage. But still, this is how sorcs work by concept. I heard Cloak was made whole and OP, so sorcs shouldn't?
So, let me throw the questipn back:
Do yoi think sorc was fine before Summerset?
I agree Sorcs were not fine per-summerset. If they were to change Frags back to have a stun then other things need to be addressed. All passive dodge abilities would have to be removed. It's beyond frustrating to have some one running away in a strait line and dodge every skill except curse. How is that skill? Roll dodge may need to be looked as well. Cloak would also have to be reworked having a NB cloak right next to you or a group of folks is stupid. Sorcs would also need something to fight against perm-blockers.
And that's where no-damage Rune Cage comes in. Dodge/block counter at the cost of burst damage, but Frags being strong enough to kill, if pressured beforehand.
Honestly I don't think thats a bad Idea however I would like to see a bit more damage added back to frags then.
I thought about 20%, compensating for Empower.
Feel like I'm wasting my time. You want Rune Cage nerfed, but you don't want compensation otherplace. Obviously, you just wanna trash sorc. I am done here.
Id be fine with restoring frags if rune cage is nerfed. Maybe it isnt too much to ask for a stam morph of frags (rework crystal blast)
Now, THAT'S how you go about balancing!
I agree!
=D
It would actually have to be closer to a 40% buff to frags. 20% would be around 1k more damage range cage is about 2k damage.
No. It wouldn't. Rune was an over buff, nerfing rune doesn't mean that frags needs an overbuff too. Inb4 can't empower frags. LA buff more than made up for that.
Bah, heh you got me on empower0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yup, I think 20% should be fine. It should not nuke 25k health players from 100 to 0, but rather if they're not at 100% health, because you pressured them enough.
That's the basic idea, at least. It would have to be tested on PTS, of course, and adjusted if necessary.
My Frag tooltip is 19k, so 9.5k in Cyro. 20% would be closing in on 2k, consider resistances... Hmm... Maybe 25% more damage? 30? But definitely not more!
OH!!!
I know how to justify it for ZOS! Stupid me, the solution was sooo easy!
So, Wrobel says Frags used to be overloaded, stun, instant, damage. What if the damage buff (whatever the number would be) went straight into the base damage?
Blast had stun and AoE, Frags had stun and instacast. Far from "overloaded". Base ability would be more useful for low-level PvE.
And to top it off, to compensate for Blast damage without ruining OL gank builds, you could then make Overload not count as light attacks, to make those builds a little less ridiculous, but still possible.
Honestly, even ZOS logic can't deny that suggestion.Edited by Lord-Otto on July 4, 2018 10:00AM0 -
Septimus_Magna✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yup, I think 20% should be fine. It should not nuke 25k health players from 100 to 0, but rather if they're not at 100% health, because you pressured them enough.
That's the basic idea, at least. It would have to be tested on PTS, of course, and adjusted if necessary.
My Frag tooltip is 19k, so 9.5k in Cyro. 20% would be closing in on 2k, consider resistances... Hmm... Maybe 25% more damage? 30? But definitely not more!
OH!!!
I know how to justify it for ZOS! Stupid me, the solution was sooo easy!
So, Wrobel says Frags used to be overloaded, stun, instant, damage. What if the damage buff (whatever the number would be) went straight into the base damage?
Blast had stun and AoE, Frags had stun and instacast. Far from "overloaded". Base ability would be more useful for low-level PvE.
And to top it off, to compensate for Blast damage without ruining OL gank builds, you could then make Overload not count as light attacks, to make those builds a little less ridiculous, but still possible.
Honestly, even ZOS logic can't deny that suggestion.
Wrobel doesnt have an easy job but sometimes I just dont understand his decisions. Sorcs already had a lot of burst dmg (frags/curse/mages fury/mines) and then he buffs rune cage and give it more burst dmg. Meanwhile in PVE land non-pet sorcs only have 3-4 useful skills because everything is burst dmg.
To me it looks like you can improve PVE non-pet sorcs and tone PVP sorcs down a bit by changing some of the burst to sustained dmg.PC - EU (AD)Septimus Mezar - Altmer Sorcerer
Septimus Rulanir - Orsimer Templar
Septimus Desmoru - Khajiit Necromancer
Septimus Iroh - Dunmer Dragon Knight
Septimus Thragar - Dunmer Nightblade
Septimus Jah'zar - Khajiit Nightblade
Septimus Nerox - Redguard Warden
Septimus Ozurk - Orsimer Sorcerer3 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Septimus_Magna wrote: »Yup, I think 20% should be fine. It should not nuke 25k health players from 100 to 0, but rather if they're not at 100% health, because you pressured them enough.
That's the basic idea, at least. It would have to be tested on PTS, of course, and adjusted if necessary.
My Frag tooltip is 19k, so 9.5k in Cyro. 20% would be closing in on 2k, consider resistances... Hmm... Maybe 25% more damage? 30? But definitely not more!
OH!!!
I know how to justify it for ZOS! Stupid me, the solution was sooo easy!
So, Wrobel says Frags used to be overloaded, stun, instant, damage. What if the damage buff (whatever the number would be) went straight into the base damage?
Blast had stun and AoE, Frags had stun and instacast. Far from "overloaded". Base ability would be more useful for low-level PvE.
And to top it off, to compensate for Blast damage without ruining OL gank builds, you could then make Overload not count as light attacks, to make those builds a little less ridiculous, but still possible.
Honestly, even ZOS logic can't deny that suggestion.
Wrobel doesnt have an easy job but sometimes I just dont understand his decisions. Sorcs already had a lot of burst dmg (frags/curse/mages fury/mines) and then he buffs rune cage and give it more burst dmg. Meanwhile in PVE land non-pet sorcs only have 3-4 useful skills because everything is burst dmg.
To me it looks like you can improve PVE non-pet sorcs and tone PVP sorcs down a bit by changing some of the burst to sustained dmg.
Any suggestions?0 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭Septimus_Magna wrote: »Yup, I think 20% should be fine. It should not nuke 25k health players from 100 to 0, but rather if they're not at 100% health, because you pressured them enough.
That's the basic idea, at least. It would have to be tested on PTS, of course, and adjusted if necessary.
My Frag tooltip is 19k, so 9.5k in Cyro. 20% would be closing in on 2k, consider resistances... Hmm... Maybe 25% more damage? 30? But definitely not more!
OH!!!
I know how to justify it for ZOS! Stupid me, the solution was sooo easy!
So, Wrobel says Frags used to be overloaded, stun, instant, damage. What if the damage buff (whatever the number would be) went straight into the base damage?
Blast had stun and AoE, Frags had stun and instacast. Far from "overloaded". Base ability would be more useful for low-level PvE.
And to top it off, to compensate for Blast damage without ruining OL gank builds, you could then make Overload not count as light attacks, to make those builds a little less ridiculous, but still possible.
Honestly, even ZOS logic can't deny that suggestion.
Wrobel doesnt have an easy job but sometimes I just dont understand his decisions. Sorcs already had a lot of burst dmg (frags/curse/mages fury/mines) and then he buffs rune cage and give it more burst dmg. Meanwhile in PVE land non-pet sorcs only have 3-4 useful skills because everything is burst dmg.
To me it looks like you can improve PVE non-pet sorcs and tone PVP sorcs down a bit by changing some of the burst to sustained dmg.
Any suggestions?
I will suggest this as Wrobel not only have no easy job...I will suggest he even dont know how this game combat looks and what he should to do since he just started here
he know nothing how to balance this game as he dont know anything about this game combat I guess how we can see with most "balance" changes
everytime he is changing something its 90% he is changing this about what nobody whined like old crystal frags, now rune cage...nobody asked to buff it like for that big nerf to frags, from nerf to curse he went for buff lol
and this is same with all other classes...people was whinning at something and then what? this thing was barely touched if even and something other got destroyed about nobody even was talking0 -
Nerftheforums✭✭✭✭✭
✭I consider sorc extremely easy to play because I can kill people more reliably (not easily, not fastly, reliably) than on any other class, I have no buff to keep up except major sorcery (which all good sorcs I know except hexys get from pots), you have the best sustain skill in the game (no counterplay, extremely low cost for what it does), and you defense relies on kiting and shielding, which are perfectly complementary to each other, as no other class has (one could argue that stamnb has shade and vigor, but if you played both classes you realize how different the two mechanics work). Moreover, you have access to the strongest defensive ability in the game (resto ult), are almost totally immune to defile since you rely so little on healing ("ye but sorcs have to heal gnegnegne", *** that, try to compare it to how much any other class has to heal and get real), and tbh you are subject only to snares and maim as a debuff. And cost poisons, but that cancer is universal.
Sorc is way easier then other classes, it's a matter of fact. The now uncounterable burst, good defense mechanics, one or no buffs to keep up and the ease you have in getting kills surely makes it a training wheel class.9 -
Septimus_Magna✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Septimus_Magna wrote: »Yup, I think 20% should be fine. It should not nuke 25k health players from 100 to 0, but rather if they're not at 100% health, because you pressured them enough.
That's the basic idea, at least. It would have to be tested on PTS, of course, and adjusted if necessary.
My Frag tooltip is 19k, so 9.5k in Cyro. 20% would be closing in on 2k, consider resistances... Hmm... Maybe 25% more damage? 30? But definitely not more!
OH!!!
I know how to justify it for ZOS! Stupid me, the solution was sooo easy!
So, Wrobel says Frags used to be overloaded, stun, instant, damage. What if the damage buff (whatever the number would be) went straight into the base damage?
Blast had stun and AoE, Frags had stun and instacast. Far from "overloaded". Base ability would be more useful for low-level PvE.
And to top it off, to compensate for Blast damage without ruining OL gank builds, you could then make Overload not count as light attacks, to make those builds a little less ridiculous, but still possible.
Honestly, even ZOS logic can't deny that suggestion.
Wrobel doesnt have an easy job but sometimes I just dont understand his decisions. Sorcs already had a lot of burst dmg (frags/curse/mages fury/mines) and then he buffs rune cage and give it more burst dmg. Meanwhile in PVE land non-pet sorcs only have 3-4 useful skills because everything is burst dmg.
To me it looks like you can improve PVE non-pet sorcs and tone PVP sorcs down a bit by changing some of the burst to sustained dmg.
Any suggestions?
Curse could be a spreading DOT that ticks every 2 seconds for 12 seconds.
The DOT spreads when you stand too close when it explodes.
Deadric Prey morph could last 6 seconds and keep the pet dmg buff.
Rune Cage could be the stun and give the caster minor heroism for 6 seconds.
I would also like Endless Fury to be a PVE execute/buff skill.
Explodes for X dmg, on targets below 25% health the dmg scales up to a maximum of 250%.
For each hit you reduce the cost of your shock abilities by 2% and increase shock dmg by 2% for 10 seconds.
Mages Wrath could remain the PVP morph, maybe with lower execute dmg so its less instagib if the target falls below 20% health.
Greater Storm Atronach morph is fine, the other morph should be a mobile Air Atronach that deals physical dmg and causes bleeds. Crystal Shards should be a stam morph and work like Crystal Fragment. Skill animation like earth benders heel kicking rocks would be nice.
*Durations and percentages are just an indication and would need to be tested to determine if its balanced.Edited by Septimus_Magna on July 4, 2018 1:15PMPC - EU (AD)Septimus Mezar - Altmer Sorcerer
Septimus Rulanir - Orsimer Templar
Septimus Desmoru - Khajiit Necromancer
Septimus Iroh - Dunmer Dragon Knight
Septimus Thragar - Dunmer Nightblade
Septimus Jah'zar - Khajiit Nightblade
Septimus Nerox - Redguard Warden
Septimus Ozurk - Orsimer Sorcerer1 -
Vanzen✭✭✭✭✭The only hassle beeing a sorc is to get a lich resto staff.
This class is a joke and a scandal.
I have 2 mains I have been playing pvp with for 4 years : a DK although in a good spot since 2H change and last patch is still a *** to perform, with every tiny mistake sending you to your death.
And a sorc ... Wich is so OP compared to anything else that its ridiculous.
Try in BG .... Lich (Back) Willpower (Front) 5 amberplasm/Domi/Infernal and come tell me this class is balanced with the rune cage change ...
At least make it last 3 sec ! But 5 ?!Edited by Vanzen on July 5, 2018 9:07AM4 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Shackle is better than Amber if you're running Lich with it, IMO. More max magicka.1 -
cpuScientist✭✭✭✭✭
✭I really gotta say. I main magSorc. I play other classes but always go back to my magSorc.
I just can't anymore. It is legit too strong. They took all the fun a and skill away from this class with rune cage. Mages wrath solo 1v1 is not overperforming but XvX it is strong. I can be low health and tank multiple radiant oppression with blocking and healing, same with reverse slice spin to win and unless that magBlade is just hiding in stealth waiting for people to actively get lower than 25% and then using their execute I can again tank it. But a mages wrath will get them, it's no skill but it's delayed blah blah blah.
Sorcs have been easy to learn and get to a decent level with for a long time. But now it's just ridiculous, new players come in on sorcs learn it in a sitting and then do very good in cyro only being shown to be severely lacking when they try to 1vX "which is the part that takes skill, as with EVERY class"
I did a test just for giggles in BG's and it depressed me. I took off curse and pulse placed inner light and bound armor in their place. And just went around using mages wrath cage and the ocasional frag that barely ever came up. And ended with my usual 15+ kills. And that was depressing for me lol. Yeah alot of these may have been kill steals but then I still did similar damage to everyone else on my team.
MagSorc is plain STRONG this patch. They have always been strong but solid counterplay existed in that frags or then reach was avoidable, now though with cage the skill of the class is gone, when you are guaranteed to land a strong burst combo EVERYTIME, ANYTIME. The strong defenses and utility of this class was always kept in check by the fact that the strongest oart of your burst the frag was hit and miss avoidable and reflectable slow and telgraphed. Now while cage is in game Sorc is a cheap thrills class. No skill no good counterplay except when trying to 1vX. But not needing an ulti to kill means light champion can be spammed. And build in enough stamGen and magGen and you can dodge and shield and LOS that it's not hard to X really isn't. Shields work fine when combined with LOS and a timely dodge here and there along with lights champion.
I'm not saying Nerf wrath though, unless they move that damage elsewhere or fundementally change the skill in some way.
I thought making cage do dot or no damage would be fine, but it needs to be deleted. It's the fact that sorcs can 100% land their full burst combo the extra damage us just icing.
Do this and save Sorcs from getting nerfed in other ways.5 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Basically, Plasm exchanges a max mag bonus for a stam recovery one. But Shackle also gives you more max stam, so I'd give it to Shackle, not considering food.
Tristat food on Amber makes up for its inherently low stats, but you are gonna feel the loss of Witchmother's/CwC's mag regen.
Ultimately, all things considered, Amber and Shackle achieve similar stats, but Amber gives up a bit magicka recovery for a bit stamina recovery. This is dependent on your playstyle, but I found the mag regen to be more important to me.
And there's the comparison between max health (Ambertristat) vs health regen (CwCshackle), which is further incited by the rising of Sload's, but I'll disregard it. Don't think it makes or breaks a build.0 -
Jsmalls✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Micah_Bayer
I think this is the problem. It's easy to Zerg on a MagSorc, and it's easy to stack 3 shields and do no damage on a MagSorc. Even I get pissed at MagSorcs that go full turtle and streak away. But at the end of the day what did they do? Get away lol
What people aren't looking at is the challenge that comes with 1vXing or balancing your defense with your damage output on a MagSorc. It's hard to be applying constant pressure with a burst class while maintaining your own defenses. Versus turning around and using Dawnbreaker instantly for 10-15k + a stun (I wear light armor and am a Vamp yeah it hurts)
If you can't kill MagSorcs in a 2v1 your Damage is bad, if you can't kill them 1v1 well surprise all classes can facetank damage 1v1.Edited by Jsmalls on July 6, 2018 1:40PM2 -
Murador178✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Starcraft was hard, competing in an actual competitive game with an actual competitive playerbase is hard, ESO is easy.
No it really wasn't. About all races had the first 20ish min predetermined.
Where to make the zergs
Where to make the zealots
Run across the map! Found your base... Zealot invasion!
StarCraft was more muscle memory than this game.
Hell my friend could do that game blind folded
That post made my day. These 2 phrases instantly show ur starcraft skill level. It's at max silver league, but I bet on bronze league. Starcraft is a game around timings and scouting. If u watch some professionel Bo5-Bo7 u would notice they switch strategy all the time. Zealot proxies are possible at low leagues. They are not viable at higer levels. Zealots are mostly used as a meatshield for higher tech units with the charge upgrade. Or for walling of the entrance vs zerg.
High level starcaft needs insane multitasking and very high APM (around 400)- and since u dont only spam the same 5 buttons like in eso thats alot harder. There is a reason there are no pricepools in Eso - the game is NOT competitive. We are all here just for fun and to relax.1 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The only people I ever hear refer to classes as “god mode” are people who get packed up. Magicka sorcs might be strong but the days of real “god mode” builds are long gone. Now you just have some slightly over tuned abilities on some classes and a few OP sets and that’s really it. It still requires skill to 1vX on a mag sorc, If you come across a few good players you’re still going down just like any other class. A good player of almost any class is capable of facing off agaisnf a Magicka sorc. Rune cage, and overload can definitely use some changes, mages wrath should probably be a normal execute but that’s really it.0 -
The only people I ever hear refer to classes as “god mode” are people who get packed up. Magicka sorcs might be strong but the days of real “god mode” builds are long gone. Now you just have some slightly over tuned abilities on some classes and a few OP sets and that’s really it. It still requires skill to 1vX on a mag sorc, If you come across a few good players you’re still going down just like any other class. A good player of almost any class is capable of facing off agaisnf a Magicka sorc. Rune cage, and overload can definitely use some changes, mages wrath should probably be a normal execute but that’s really it.
edit
I delete the speech, so I think it is useless to discuss it if someone still thinks that the magicka Sorc isn't in good mode.
I only say that it is the only class that includes sustain, burst damage, mobility and resistance.
I would say that there is little to add except that it is totally foolish to include such a stun ... ...a 28m undodgeable and unblockable stun on the sorc ; to tell the truth he would not even need to stun that class for how it was doneEdited by melloni_aleb16_ESO on July 7, 2018 5:46PMDC|EP|AD EU .:. Claymore - all classes DK/Sorc/Nb/templar .: Retired :.
DC NA server with 400 ping - DKs Vraccàs
Philosophy of the poor .: "What you cannot beat ..zerg him " :.1 -
Lucky28✭✭✭✭✭
✭You know you have a massive L2P issue when you're getting GG'd by a Stamplar (probably the worst class this update) while you're on a Magsorc (by for the best class this update).
actually it's really easy to kill magsorcs for stamplars, provided it's not lagging. by far the biggest problem stamplars face is lag, stamplars are *** worthless in lag.Edited by Lucky28 on July 8, 2018 8:27PMInvictus0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't know what I should feel more amazed about - that this thread (and its brethren) are still going, that we've had 6 patches with almost no PvP bug fixes, or that even the forum game is boring these days. I haven't been playing Sotha Sil for 2 weeks straight, something I never thought would ever happen.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0
