DanteYoda wrote: »

Pointless things just make weapons work better..

so youd rather take away our actual weapon against tanks and shield stacking noobs??

itzTJ wrote: »

generalmyrick wrote: »

if cost poison are so overpowered...

WHY DONT YOU USE THEM INSTEAD OF CALLING FOR NERFS????

I mean if you read what i said you probably woulndt have written this. Regardless i said theyre a xv1/outnumbering tool... Literally good for nothing except that.

I guess i dont think they're really OP. I just think that the damage they do to solo pvp isnt worth any little good they do for fighting tanks or healers.

And to everyone saying they're good for tanks and tanky healers, ya, sure they are but so what? I've killed countless tanks and healers by myself without them.. And the ones i cant kill i just walk away tbh..

the two things those poisons counter are tanks and shield stacking sorcs. healers major defile their deader than crap. but these poisons make it so the 2 most cancerous builds are actually beatable.

itzTJ wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

generalmyrick wrote: »

if cost poison are so overpowered...

WHY DONT YOU USE THEM INSTEAD OF CALLING FOR NERFS????

I mean if you read what i said you probably woulndt have written this. Regardless i said theyre a xv1/outnumbering tool... Literally good for nothing except that.

I guess i dont think they're really OP. I just think that the damage they do to solo pvp isnt worth any little good they do for fighting tanks or healers.

And to everyone saying they're good for tanks and tanky healers, ya, sure they are but so what? I've killed countless tanks and healers by myself without them.. And the ones i cant kill i just walk away tbh..

the two things those poisons counter are tanks and shield stacking sorcs. healers major defile their deader than crap. but these poisons make it so the 2 most cancerous builds are actually beatable.

Idk.. I can agree that sorcs are a problem. But any sorc that doesnt run rune prison / camp mines isnt that big of a problem. And even the ones that run mines still arent sometimes. Its mainly rune prison that causes you to get busted so fast.

Otherwise i dont really have an issue with sorcs that run like flame reach or something and perma block dks are easy. But i see where you're coming from.. I do... But again i just feel solo players always get shafted and i think this one thing is simply unnecessary.. Its detriment to solo pvp is soooo much worse than any good it can do against certain "op" builds in the game..

Just my opinion.

so a screw the majority for the priority of the few? solo in pvp is a choice(and is still doable quite easily) but removing the hard counter to 2 builds that their actually meant for because a few solo players havent learned well enough yet isnt a good arguement at the moment. rune prison doesnt make sorcs a pain nor do mines, what does is when i have them one shot from dead and i see a 25k to 30k shield come out of nowhere and stay there cause their magicka is so stupidly high and they get a free chance to just flip me off. then you have the tanks who can heal and hold block forever which that poison counters them into the floor making them actually have to play tactically. so that poison is fully required.

DuskMarine wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

generalmyrick wrote: »

if cost poison are so overpowered...

WHY DONT YOU USE THEM INSTEAD OF CALLING FOR NERFS????

I mean if you read what i said you probably woulndt have written this. Regardless i said theyre a xv1/outnumbering tool... Literally good for nothing except that.

I guess i dont think they're really OP. I just think that the damage they do to solo pvp isnt worth any little good they do for fighting tanks or healers.

And to everyone saying they're good for tanks and tanky healers, ya, sure they are but so what? I've killed countless tanks and healers by myself without them.. And the ones i cant kill i just walk away tbh..

the two things those poisons counter are tanks and shield stacking sorcs. healers major defile their deader than crap. but these poisons make it so the 2 most cancerous builds are actually beatable.

Idk.. I can agree that sorcs are a problem. But any sorc that doesnt run rune prison / camp mines isnt that big of a problem. And even the ones that run mines still arent sometimes. Its mainly rune prison that causes you to get busted so fast.

Otherwise i dont really have an issue with sorcs that run like flame reach or something and perma block dks are easy. But i see where you're coming from.. I do... But again i just feel solo players always get shafted and i think this one thing is simply unnecessary.. Its detriment to solo pvp is soooo much worse than any good it can do against certain "op" builds in the game..

Just my opinion.

so a screw the majority for the priority of the few? solo in pvp is a choice(and is still doable quite easily) but removing the hard counter to 2 builds that their actually meant for because a few solo players havent learned well enough yet isnt a good arguement at the moment. rune prison doesnt make sorcs a pain nor do mines, what does is when i have them one shot from dead and i see a 25k to 30k shield come out of nowhere and stay there cause their magicka is so stupidly high and they get a free chance to just flip me off. then you have the tanks who can heal and hold block forever which that poison counters them into the floor making them actually have to play tactically. so that poison is fully required.

No it actually doesnt screw over the majority. I legit play and talk to hundreds of people and meet very few players who run them. I spend 90% of my time in this game dueling and in cyrodil and i rarely come across someone with cost poisons. Of course when i do and they're not alone its usually a *** show... But no i would say YOU are the minority.

And you dont need cost poisons for tanks or sorcs. Im sorry but you just dont. If my dual wield stam sorc can kill them anyone can...

DuskMarine wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

generalmyrick wrote: »

if cost poison are so overpowered...

WHY DONT YOU USE THEM INSTEAD OF CALLING FOR NERFS????

I mean if you read what i said you probably woulndt have written this. Regardless i said theyre a xv1/outnumbering tool... Literally good for nothing except that.

I guess i dont think they're really OP. I just think that the damage they do to solo pvp isnt worth any little good they do for fighting tanks or healers.

And to everyone saying they're good for tanks and tanky healers, ya, sure they are but so what? I've killed countless tanks and healers by myself without them.. And the ones i cant kill i just walk away tbh..

the two things those poisons counter are tanks and shield stacking sorcs. healers major defile their deader than crap. but these poisons make it so the 2 most cancerous builds are actually beatable.

Idk.. I can agree that sorcs are a problem. But any sorc that doesnt run rune prison / camp mines isnt that big of a problem. And even the ones that run mines still arent sometimes. Its mainly rune prison that causes you to get busted so fast.

Otherwise i dont really have an issue with sorcs that run like flame reach or something and perma block dks are easy. But i see where you're coming from.. I do... But again i just feel solo players always get shafted and i think this one thing is simply unnecessary.. Its detriment to solo pvp is soooo much worse than any good it can do against certain "op" builds in the game..

Just my opinion.

so a screw the majority for the priority of the few? solo in pvp is a choice(and is still doable quite easily) but removing the hard counter to 2 builds that their actually meant for because a few solo players havent learned well enough yet isnt a good arguement at the moment. rune prison doesnt make sorcs a pain nor do mines, what does is when i have them one shot from dead and i see a 25k to 30k shield come out of nowhere and stay there cause their magicka is so stupidly high and they get a free chance to just flip me off. then you have the tanks who can heal and hold block forever which that poison counters them into the floor making them actually have to play tactically. so that poison is fully required.

"but removing the hard counter"

No build should have a "hard counter" where they always lose.
That's not fair or balanced. Everybody needs a chance with skill.

itzTJ wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

generalmyrick wrote: »

if cost poison are so overpowered...

WHY DONT YOU USE THEM INSTEAD OF CALLING FOR NERFS????

I mean if you read what i said you probably woulndt have written this. Regardless i said theyre a xv1/outnumbering tool... Literally good for nothing except that.

I guess i dont think they're really OP. I just think that the damage they do to solo pvp isnt worth any little good they do for fighting tanks or healers.

And to everyone saying they're good for tanks and tanky healers, ya, sure they are but so what? I've killed countless tanks and healers by myself without them.. And the ones i cant kill i just walk away tbh..

the two things those poisons counter are tanks and shield stacking sorcs. healers major defile their deader than crap. but these poisons make it so the 2 most cancerous builds are actually beatable.

Idk.. I can agree that sorcs are a problem. But any sorc that doesnt run rune prison / camp mines isnt that big of a problem. And even the ones that run mines still arent sometimes. Its mainly rune prison that causes you to get busted so fast.

Otherwise i dont really have an issue with sorcs that run like flame reach or something and perma block dks are easy. But i see where you're coming from.. I do... But again i just feel solo players always get shafted and i think this one thing is simply unnecessary.. Its detriment to solo pvp is soooo much worse than any good it can do against certain "op" builds in the game..

Just my opinion.

so a screw the majority for the priority of the few? solo in pvp is a choice(and is still doable quite easily) but removing the hard counter to 2 builds that their actually meant for because a few solo players havent learned well enough yet isnt a good arguement at the moment. rune prison doesnt make sorcs a pain nor do mines, what does is when i have them one shot from dead and i see a 25k to 30k shield come out of nowhere and stay there cause their magicka is so stupidly high and they get a free chance to just flip me off. then you have the tanks who can heal and hold block forever which that poison counters them into the floor making them actually have to play tactically. so that poison is fully required.

No it actually doesnt screw over the majority. I legit play and talk to hundreds of people and meet very few players who run them. I spend 90% of my time in this game dueling and in cyrodil and i rarely come across someone with cost poisons. Of course when i do and they're not alone its usually a *** show... But no i would say YOU are the minority.

And you dont need cost poisons for tanks or sorcs. Im sorry but you just dont. If my dual wield stam sorc can kill them anyone can...

keep telling yourself that. guys that dual dont needem cause its one on one(granted theres more cancer builds doing that than in pvp so its a wonder they dont usem more than we in pvp do) but a vast majority that pvp do in fact use cost increase poisons.

Well out of the hundreds of people i duel and fight in pvp every day i maybe see them a couple times a day. If that. Its not balanced to just throw something in the game that completely negates peoples sustain. Its ridiculous. And that fact that you cant kill certain builds is a you problem.

I mean like 1v1 most of the time ill still out sustain the person with them on.. 1vX i would much rather have damage.. Maybe as a back bar poison.. But Xv1 is where they shine.. Players outnumbering other players is fine but with cost poisons theyre just draining you too fast and at WAAAAAY too little cost to their build.

the fact that you say i cant kill is kindve funny. as huge groups cant kill shield stackers or tanks without extreme measures and damage dealing. the factor that some zergs will leave those people ignoring them means that those builds are litterally cancer.

DuskMarine wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

generalmyrick wrote: »

if cost poison are so overpowered...

WHY DONT YOU USE THEM INSTEAD OF CALLING FOR NERFS????

I mean if you read what i said you probably woulndt have written this. Regardless i said theyre a xv1/outnumbering tool... Literally good for nothing except that.

I guess i dont think they're really OP. I just think that the damage they do to solo pvp isnt worth any little good they do for fighting tanks or healers.

And to everyone saying they're good for tanks and tanky healers, ya, sure they are but so what? I've killed countless tanks and healers by myself without them.. And the ones i cant kill i just walk away tbh..

the two things those poisons counter are tanks and shield stacking sorcs. healers major defile their deader than crap. but these poisons make it so the 2 most cancerous builds are actually beatable.

Idk.. I can agree that sorcs are a problem. But any sorc that doesnt run rune prison / camp mines isnt that big of a problem. And even the ones that run mines still arent sometimes. Its mainly rune prison that causes you to get busted so fast.

Otherwise i dont really have an issue with sorcs that run like flame reach or something and perma block dks are easy. But i see where you're coming from.. I do... But again i just feel solo players always get shafted and i think this one thing is simply unnecessary.. Its detriment to solo pvp is soooo much worse than any good it can do against certain "op" builds in the game..

Just my opinion.

so a screw the majority for the priority of the few? solo in pvp is a choice(and is still doable quite easily) but removing the hard counter to 2 builds that their actually meant for because a few solo players havent learned well enough yet isnt a good arguement at the moment. rune prison doesnt make sorcs a pain nor do mines, what does is when i have them one shot from dead and i see a 25k to 30k shield come out of nowhere and stay there cause their magicka is so stupidly high and they get a free chance to just flip me off. then you have the tanks who can heal and hold block forever which that poison counters them into the floor making them actually have to play tactically. so that poison is fully required.

No it actually doesnt screw over the majority. I legit play and talk to hundreds of people and meet very few players who run them. I spend 90% of my time in this game dueling and in cyrodil and i rarely come across someone with cost poisons. Of course when i do and they're not alone its usually a *** show... But no i would say YOU are the minority.

And you dont need cost poisons for tanks or sorcs. Im sorry but you just dont. If my dual wield stam sorc can kill them anyone can...

keep telling yourself that. guys that dual dont needem cause its one on one(granted theres more cancer builds doing that than in pvp so its a wonder they dont usem more than we in pvp do) but a vast majority that pvp do in fact use cost increase poisons.

Well out of the hundreds of people i duel and fight in pvp every day i maybe see them a couple times a day. If that. Its not balanced to just throw something in the game that completely negates peoples sustain. Its ridiculous. And that fact that you cant kill certain builds is a you problem.

I mean like 1v1 most of the time ill still out sustain the person with them on.. 1vX i would much rather have damage.. Maybe as a back bar poison.. But Xv1 is where they shine.. Players outnumbering other players is fine but with cost poisons theyre just draining you too fast and at WAAAAAY too little cost to their build.

the fact that you say i cant kill is kindve funny. as huge groups cant kill shield stackers or tanks without extreme measures and damage dealing. the factor that some zergs will leave those people ignoring them means that those builds are litterally cancer.

They meant they ignore them 1v1. Zergs kill everything.

FYI, shield stackers can still be stunned. Tanks can still be burned down because of lack of heals or strong damage shields.
If you can't take them then there is a nerf to them needed or maybe you're not as good as you think you are.

A cost poison is not going to make that much of a difference 1v1 and as a group it just gives the focused target absolutely no chance when they may have had one before. They can't even run away with cost poisons because they're out of stamina as well as magicka. That's ridiculously not fun.

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

generalmyrick wrote: »

if cost poison are so overpowered...

WHY DONT YOU USE THEM INSTEAD OF CALLING FOR NERFS????

I mean if you read what i said you probably woulndt have written this. Regardless i said theyre a xv1/outnumbering tool... Literally good for nothing except that.

I guess i dont think they're really OP. I just think that the damage they do to solo pvp isnt worth any little good they do for fighting tanks or healers.

And to everyone saying they're good for tanks and tanky healers, ya, sure they are but so what? I've killed countless tanks and healers by myself without them.. And the ones i cant kill i just walk away tbh..

the two things those poisons counter are tanks and shield stacking sorcs. healers major defile their deader than crap. but these poisons make it so the 2 most cancerous builds are actually beatable.

Idk.. I can agree that sorcs are a problem. But any sorc that doesnt run rune prison / camp mines isnt that big of a problem. And even the ones that run mines still arent sometimes. Its mainly rune prison that causes you to get busted so fast.

Otherwise i dont really have an issue with sorcs that run like flame reach or something and perma block dks are easy. But i see where you're coming from.. I do... But again i just feel solo players always get shafted and i think this one thing is simply unnecessary.. Its detriment to solo pvp is soooo much worse than any good it can do against certain "op" builds in the game..

Just my opinion.

so a screw the majority for the priority of the few? solo in pvp is a choice(and is still doable quite easily) but removing the hard counter to 2 builds that their actually meant for because a few solo players havent learned well enough yet isnt a good arguement at the moment. rune prison doesnt make sorcs a pain nor do mines, what does is when i have them one shot from dead and i see a 25k to 30k shield come out of nowhere and stay there cause their magicka is so stupidly high and they get a free chance to just flip me off. then you have the tanks who can heal and hold block forever which that poison counters them into the floor making them actually have to play tactically. so that poison is fully required.

No it actually doesnt screw over the majority. I legit play and talk to hundreds of people and meet very few players who run them. I spend 90% of my time in this game dueling and in cyrodil and i rarely come across someone with cost poisons. Of course when i do and they're not alone its usually a *** show... But no i would say YOU are the minority.

And you dont need cost poisons for tanks or sorcs. Im sorry but you just dont. If my dual wield stam sorc can kill them anyone can...

keep telling yourself that. guys that dual dont needem cause its one on one(granted theres more cancer builds doing that than in pvp so its a wonder they dont usem more than we in pvp do) but a vast majority that pvp do in fact use cost increase poisons.

Well out of the hundreds of people i duel and fight in pvp every day i maybe see them a couple times a day. If that. Its not balanced to just throw something in the game that completely negates peoples sustain. Its ridiculous. And that fact that you cant kill certain builds is a you problem.

I mean like 1v1 most of the time ill still out sustain the person with them on.. 1vX i would much rather have damage.. Maybe as a back bar poison.. But Xv1 is where they shine.. Players outnumbering other players is fine but with cost poisons theyre just draining you too fast and at WAAAAAY too little cost to their build.

the fact that you say i cant kill is kindve funny. as huge groups cant kill shield stackers or tanks without extreme measures and damage dealing. the factor that some zergs will leave those people ignoring them means that those builds are litterally cancer.

They meant they ignore them 1v1. Zergs kill everything.

FYI, shield stackers can still be stunned. Tanks can still be burned down because of lack of heals or strong damage shields.
If you can't take them then there is a nerf to them needed or maybe you're not as good as you think you are.

A cost poison is not going to make that much of a difference 1v1 and as a group it just gives the focused target absolutely no chance when they may have had one before. They can't even run away with cost poisons because they're out of stamina as well as magicka. That's ridiculously not fun.

zergs litterally will ignore a tank if they see them. unless you have a cleave bombing run ready they will ignore tanks because you cant kill them

Kadoin wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

generalmyrick wrote: »

if cost poison are so overpowered...

WHY DONT YOU USE THEM INSTEAD OF CALLING FOR NERFS????

I mean if you read what i said you probably woulndt have written this. Regardless i said theyre a xv1/outnumbering tool... Literally good for nothing except that.

I guess i dont think they're really OP. I just think that the damage they do to solo pvp isnt worth any little good they do for fighting tanks or healers.

And to everyone saying they're good for tanks and tanky healers, ya, sure they are but so what? I've killed countless tanks and healers by myself without them.. And the ones i cant kill i just walk away tbh..

the two things those poisons counter are tanks and shield stacking sorcs. healers major defile their deader than crap. but these poisons make it so the 2 most cancerous builds are actually beatable.

Idk.. I can agree that sorcs are a problem. But any sorc that doesnt run rune prison / camp mines isnt that big of a problem. And even the ones that run mines still arent sometimes. Its mainly rune prison that causes you to get busted so fast.

Otherwise i dont really have an issue with sorcs that run like flame reach or something and perma block dks are easy. But i see where you're coming from.. I do... But again i just feel solo players always get shafted and i think this one thing is simply unnecessary.. Its detriment to solo pvp is soooo much worse than any good it can do against certain "op" builds in the game..

Just my opinion.

so a screw the majority for the priority of the few? solo in pvp is a choice(and is still doable quite easily) but removing the hard counter to 2 builds that their actually meant for because a few solo players havent learned well enough yet isnt a good arguement at the moment. rune prison doesnt make sorcs a pain nor do mines, what does is when i have them one shot from dead and i see a 25k to 30k shield come out of nowhere and stay there cause their magicka is so stupidly high and they get a free chance to just flip me off. then you have the tanks who can heal and hold block forever which that poison counters them into the floor making them actually have to play tactically. so that poison is fully required.

No it actually doesnt screw over the majority. I legit play and talk to hundreds of people and meet very few players who run them. I spend 90% of my time in this game dueling and in cyrodil and i rarely come across someone with cost poisons. Of course when i do and they're not alone its usually a *** show... But no i would say YOU are the minority.

And you dont need cost poisons for tanks or sorcs. Im sorry but you just dont. If my dual wield stam sorc can kill them anyone can...

keep telling yourself that. guys that dual dont needem cause its one on one(granted theres more cancer builds doing that than in pvp so its a wonder they dont usem more than we in pvp do) but a vast majority that pvp do in fact use cost increase poisons.

Well out of the hundreds of people i duel and fight in pvp every day i maybe see them a couple times a day. If that. Its not balanced to just throw something in the game that completely negates peoples sustain. Its ridiculous. And that fact that you cant kill certain builds is a you problem.

I mean like 1v1 most of the time ill still out sustain the person with them on.. 1vX i would much rather have damage.. Maybe as a back bar poison.. But Xv1 is where they shine.. Players outnumbering other players is fine but with cost poisons theyre just draining you too fast and at WAAAAAY too little cost to their build.

the fact that you say i cant kill is kindve funny. as huge groups cant kill shield stackers or tanks without extreme measures and damage dealing. the factor that some zergs will leave those people ignoring them means that those builds are litterally cancer.

They meant they ignore them 1v1. Zergs kill everything.

FYI, shield stackers can still be stunned. Tanks can still be burned down because of lack of heals or strong damage shields.
If you can't take them then there is a nerf to them needed or maybe you're not as good as you think you are.

A cost poison is not going to make that much of a difference 1v1 and as a group it just gives the focused target absolutely no chance when they may have had one before. They can't even run away with cost poisons because they're out of stamina as well as magicka. That's ridiculously not fun.

"Tanks can still be burned down because of lack of heals or strong damage shields"

Sorry, I lol'd there. I don't know what kind of tanks you've fought, but any real tank has a super heal and/or super shield of some kind. Don't forget you can also tank with light armor, and in my opinion light armor tanks are better for PvP. Stuns don't mean anything unless you fight an idiot with 64 in mag and no tri-food.

Break free uses way too much stamina to be mitigated just by food or even 64 points in stamina. You will always be out of stamina multiple times in a fight unless you're built for stamina.

1) Defile, use it and enjoy. Healing gets cut by 40% or more.
2) Oblivion damage goes through shields, last I checked. "Hello Sloads!"
3) Shattering Blows, Champion Points. Why are you pvping in CP campaigns without this if they are such a big problem?

I doubt they are as tough and unkillable as you say in no-CP campaigns because they would have to sacrifice too much to be that way.

So, how can they kill you if they are so weak in damage as to be unkillable?
Why are you so bad that they can kill you with weak attacks? Oh right, you're a complete glass cannon that relies on burst like most of the pvp builds that aren't built for balance or built just to survive.

FYI, the developers are actively crusading against burst damage kills. They want fights to take longer to encourage skillful play and give everyone a chance to win without being caught completely by surprise. That often means too long fights where somebody seems unkillable, but that's what you get.
Deal with it.

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

generalmyrick wrote: »

if cost poison are so overpowered...

WHY DONT YOU USE THEM INSTEAD OF CALLING FOR NERFS????

I mean if you read what i said you probably woulndt have written this. Regardless i said theyre a xv1/outnumbering tool... Literally good for nothing except that.

I guess i dont think they're really OP. I just think that the damage they do to solo pvp isnt worth any little good they do for fighting tanks or healers.

And to everyone saying they're good for tanks and tanky healers, ya, sure they are but so what? I've killed countless tanks and healers by myself without them.. And the ones i cant kill i just walk away tbh..

the two things those poisons counter are tanks and shield stacking sorcs. healers major defile their deader than crap. but these poisons make it so the 2 most cancerous builds are actually beatable.

Idk.. I can agree that sorcs are a problem. But any sorc that doesnt run rune prison / camp mines isnt that big of a problem. And even the ones that run mines still arent sometimes. Its mainly rune prison that causes you to get busted so fast.

Otherwise i dont really have an issue with sorcs that run like flame reach or something and perma block dks are easy. But i see where you're coming from.. I do... But again i just feel solo players always get shafted and i think this one thing is simply unnecessary.. Its detriment to solo pvp is soooo much worse than any good it can do against certain "op" builds in the game..

Just my opinion.

so a screw the majority for the priority of the few? solo in pvp is a choice(and is still doable quite easily) but removing the hard counter to 2 builds that their actually meant for because a few solo players havent learned well enough yet isnt a good arguement at the moment. rune prison doesnt make sorcs a pain nor do mines, what does is when i have them one shot from dead and i see a 25k to 30k shield come out of nowhere and stay there cause their magicka is so stupidly high and they get a free chance to just flip me off. then you have the tanks who can heal and hold block forever which that poison counters them into the floor making them actually have to play tactically. so that poison is fully required.

No it actually doesnt screw over the majority. I legit play and talk to hundreds of people and meet very few players who run them. I spend 90% of my time in this game dueling and in cyrodil and i rarely come across someone with cost poisons. Of course when i do and they're not alone its usually a *** show... But no i would say YOU are the minority.

And you dont need cost poisons for tanks or sorcs. Im sorry but you just dont. If my dual wield stam sorc can kill them anyone can...

keep telling yourself that. guys that dual dont needem cause its one on one(granted theres more cancer builds doing that than in pvp so its a wonder they dont usem more than we in pvp do) but a vast majority that pvp do in fact use cost increase poisons.

Well out of the hundreds of people i duel and fight in pvp every day i maybe see them a couple times a day. If that. Its not balanced to just throw something in the game that completely negates peoples sustain. Its ridiculous. And that fact that you cant kill certain builds is a you problem.

I mean like 1v1 most of the time ill still out sustain the person with them on.. 1vX i would much rather have damage.. Maybe as a back bar poison.. But Xv1 is where they shine.. Players outnumbering other players is fine but with cost poisons theyre just draining you too fast and at WAAAAAY too little cost to their build.

the fact that you say i cant kill is kindve funny. as huge groups cant kill shield stackers or tanks without extreme measures and damage dealing. the factor that some zergs will leave those people ignoring them means that those builds are litterally cancer.

They meant they ignore them 1v1. Zergs kill everything.

FYI, shield stackers can still be stunned. Tanks can still be burned down because of lack of heals or strong damage shields.
If you can't take them then there is a nerf to them needed or maybe you're not as good as you think you are.

A cost poison is not going to make that much of a difference 1v1 and as a group it just gives the focused target absolutely no chance when they may have had one before. They can't even run away with cost poisons because they're out of stamina as well as magicka. That's ridiculously not fun.

"Tanks can still be burned down because of lack of heals or strong damage shields"

Sorry, I lol'd there. I don't know what kind of tanks you've fought, but any real tank has a super heal and/or super shield of some kind. Don't forget you can also tank with light armor, and in my opinion light armor tanks are better for PvP. Stuns don't mean anything unless you fight an idiot with 64 in mag and no tri-food.

Break free uses way too much stamina to be mitigated just by food or even 64 points in stamina. You will always be out of stamina multiple times in a fight unless you're built for stamina.

1) Defile, use it and enjoy. Healing gets cut by 40% or more.
2) Oblivion damage goes through shields, last I checked. "Hello Sloads!"
3) Shattering Blows, Champion Points. Why are you pvping in CP campaigns without this if they are such a big problem?

I doubt they are as tough and unkillable as you say in no-CP campaigns because they would have to sacrifice too much to be that way.

So, how can they kill you if they are so weak in damage as to be unkillable?
Why are you so bad that they can kill you with weak attacks? Oh right, you're a complete glass cannon that relies on burst like most of the pvp builds that aren't built for balance or built just to survive.

FYI, the developers are actively crusading against burst damage kills. They want fights to take longer to encourage skillful play and give everyone a chance to win without being caught completely by surprise. That often means too long fights where somebody seems unkillable, but that's what you get.
Deal with it.

I have a build that does tanking and damage. In fact, every hybrid build I have can do damage and tanking. I'm not the one with the problem killing them, but I see that others cannot overcome it. There are actually many things you can do that might seem quite strange and illogical, but in practice it makes you damn-near immortal.

1) Defile = joke. I walk around with 4-5K HP/s after buffing and lingering pot, so defiling me won't really harm me. Especially not when I also have resto ult AND if I'm on templar, BoL to heal me 5K even under max defile conditions. Even defiled, sloads cannot drop my hp alone. I'm not even using a vitality lingering pot, but I am projecting that will make me damn-near immortal. What's the only thing that can actually stop me from doing this? Defile + cost poisons + zerg. One on one, not going to happen. You'll just see my hp drop and immediately rise right back to the top, or won't see it move when I use a damage shield. OR if you will see it gradually increase when I spam healing ward, evne if you have sloads or other oblivion damage on me and are with a zerg. Hope you all have oblivion glyphs and hit at the right moment

2) Oblivion damage = joke. I only use one or two damage shields, most of the damage I take head-on anyway. Oblivion damage isn't a problem for me, especially not sloads when I'm getting close to 5K healing every second (3K minimum, but I have reliable crit for damage and healing purposes), without any burst heals. It's simply a joke, and I'm pretty sure I've called Sload's Semblance weak many times on this forum before. That's exactly why; it' nothing if it isn't stacked, at least not on any of my builds that are mag or hybrids with a leaning towards healing first and damage second.

3) shattering blows = lol. This would be scary if I solely relied on damage shields, but I have enough stam and block cost reduction to block for 22 sec+ straight and never have any issues breaking free (unless it bugs). Do you know what happens in this case? You simply don't die, esp. not in a 1v1 situation. What will stop me from doing that? Only a stam poison can do it.

4) "damage is weak" = false claim. Remember that you can get a lot of damage through many means in this game and stacking magicka and/or stam is one of them. Don't forget skills scale quite differently depending on their categories, and with the new jewelry traits and 2H changes you'd be quite surprised at what is actually possible. It all depends on what you are willing to sacrifice, and apparently some sacrifices are lesser than others.

5) When I say someone is unkillable, I mean that you cannot dent their health and you also cannot stop them (not for long at least). These builds exist and I'm sure everyone that plays Cyrodil or BGs enough has seen them and know what I mean. Someone that literally seems to have infinite stam and mag, that simply obliterates you. Yes, they don't really have infinite resources, but with the right management, especially on hybrids, you will never run out of anything as long as you play correctly and don't get hit with stam and mag poisons. If cost poisons get removed, there will be nothing to stop these builds from rolling you because cutting their sustain off or adding pressure to it is the only weakness.

If you don't think so, then let them remove cost poisons. I will laugh because it means that every one of my hybrids will become even stronger, when they are already overpowered IMO. I already roll sorcs sleeping, even when they rune cage + meteor; I already roll people using sload +zaan + caluurion on NB, etc. all without breaking a sweat. Now if you are saying you want to make builds that can handle that even stronger and easier to use, then be my guest.

Be careful what you ask for, because most of what's been asked for by the players always has unintended consequences. Just like you won't have to worry on your lich sorc or w/e you use, that will also apply to those templars using 20K+ BoLs, those NBs spamming 7K+ strifes, infinite stam builds (yes, they exist I even have one myself), etc. Don't forget when those are gone, everyone might just use oblivion glyphs instead. I honestly think only a person who hasn't experienced the game enough would call for cost poisons to be removed.

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

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DuskMarine wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

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DuskMarine wrote: »

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DuskMarine wrote: »

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generalmyrick wrote: »

if cost poison are so overpowered...

WHY DONT YOU USE THEM INSTEAD OF CALLING FOR NERFS????

I mean if you read what i said you probably woulndt have written this. Regardless i said theyre a xv1/outnumbering tool... Literally good for nothing except that.

I guess i dont think they're really OP. I just think that the damage they do to solo pvp isnt worth any little good they do for fighting tanks or healers.

And to everyone saying they're good for tanks and tanky healers, ya, sure they are but so what? I've killed countless tanks and healers by myself without them.. And the ones i cant kill i just walk away tbh..

the two things those poisons counter are tanks and shield stacking sorcs. healers major defile their deader than crap. but these poisons make it so the 2 most cancerous builds are actually beatable.

Idk.. I can agree that sorcs are a problem. But any sorc that doesnt run rune prison / camp mines isnt that big of a problem. And even the ones that run mines still arent sometimes. Its mainly rune prison that causes you to get busted so fast.

Otherwise i dont really have an issue with sorcs that run like flame reach or something and perma block dks are easy. But i see where you're coming from.. I do... But again i just feel solo players always get shafted and i think this one thing is simply unnecessary.. Its detriment to solo pvp is soooo much worse than any good it can do against certain "op" builds in the game..

Just my opinion.

so a screw the majority for the priority of the few? solo in pvp is a choice(and is still doable quite easily) but removing the hard counter to 2 builds that their actually meant for because a few solo players havent learned well enough yet isnt a good arguement at the moment. rune prison doesnt make sorcs a pain nor do mines, what does is when i have them one shot from dead and i see a 25k to 30k shield come out of nowhere and stay there cause their magicka is so stupidly high and they get a free chance to just flip me off. then you have the tanks who can heal and hold block forever which that poison counters them into the floor making them actually have to play tactically. so that poison is fully required.

No it actually doesnt screw over the majority. I legit play and talk to hundreds of people and meet very few players who run them. I spend 90% of my time in this game dueling and in cyrodil and i rarely come across someone with cost poisons. Of course when i do and they're not alone its usually a *** show... But no i would say YOU are the minority.

And you dont need cost poisons for tanks or sorcs. Im sorry but you just dont. If my dual wield stam sorc can kill them anyone can...

keep telling yourself that. guys that dual dont needem cause its one on one(granted theres more cancer builds doing that than in pvp so its a wonder they dont usem more than we in pvp do) but a vast majority that pvp do in fact use cost increase poisons.

Well out of the hundreds of people i duel and fight in pvp every day i maybe see them a couple times a day. If that. Its not balanced to just throw something in the game that completely negates peoples sustain. Its ridiculous. And that fact that you cant kill certain builds is a you problem.

I mean like 1v1 most of the time ill still out sustain the person with them on.. 1vX i would much rather have damage.. Maybe as a back bar poison.. But Xv1 is where they shine.. Players outnumbering other players is fine but with cost poisons theyre just draining you too fast and at WAAAAAY too little cost to their build.

the fact that you say i cant kill is kindve funny. as huge groups cant kill shield stackers or tanks without extreme measures and damage dealing. the factor that some zergs will leave those people ignoring them means that those builds are litterally cancer.

They meant they ignore them 1v1. Zergs kill everything.

FYI, shield stackers can still be stunned. Tanks can still be burned down because of lack of heals or strong damage shields.
If you can't take them then there is a nerf to them needed or maybe you're not as good as you think you are.

A cost poison is not going to make that much of a difference 1v1 and as a group it just gives the focused target absolutely no chance when they may have had one before. They can't even run away with cost poisons because they're out of stamina as well as magicka. That's ridiculously not fun.

"Tanks can still be burned down because of lack of heals or strong damage shields"

Sorry, I lol'd there. I don't know what kind of tanks you've fought, but any real tank has a super heal and/or super shield of some kind. Don't forget you can also tank with light armor, and in my opinion light armor tanks are better for PvP. Stuns don't mean anything unless you fight an idiot with 64 in mag and no tri-food.

Break free uses way too much stamina to be mitigated just by food or even 64 points in stamina. You will always be out of stamina multiple times in a fight unless you're built for stamina.

1) Defile, use it and enjoy. Healing gets cut by 40% or more.
2) Oblivion damage goes through shields, last I checked. "Hello Sloads!"
3) Shattering Blows, Champion Points. Why are you pvping in CP campaigns without this if they are such a big problem?

I doubt they are as tough and unkillable as you say in no-CP campaigns because they would have to sacrifice too much to be that way.

So, how can they kill you if they are so weak in damage as to be unkillable?
Why are you so bad that they can kill you with weak attacks? Oh right, you're a complete glass cannon that relies on burst like most of the pvp builds that aren't built for balance or built just to survive.

FYI, the developers are actively crusading against burst damage kills. They want fights to take longer to encourage skillful play and give everyone a chance to win without being caught completely by surprise. That often means too long fights where somebody seems unkillable, but that's what you get.
Deal with it.

I have a build that does tanking and damage. In fact, every hybrid build I have can do damage and tanking. I'm not the one with the problem killing them, but I see that others cannot overcome it. There are actually many things you can do that might seem quite strange and illogical, but in practice it makes you damn-near immortal.

You're not actually a tank then. You're a hybrid.
It seems to me there is some confusion as to what builds are the actual problem then.

What are cost poisons really meant to counter then? They already fixed infinite sustain issues with Morrowind.

Listen, you can call it whatever you want. Fact of the matter is, its a defensive build doing damage, has enough sustain to never run out of resources, do enough damage to trash an emperor, and take less damage than almost everyone in Cyrodil. If that's not a tank to you, whatever. Doesn't change the point that such shouldn't be possible, at least according to ZOS balance changes. Yet it is and there literally is no real counter besides cost poison, drain poison, glyphs and siphoner. These same builds turn even more powerful in noCP than in CP because in noCP you can't generate enough damage to defeat them unless your build is lopsided.

Also, infinite sustain is NOT gone. You can still make a build and never need to use a potion and rarely heavy attack. In fact, there is no spec incapable of doing so in this patch. The question is how much damage would be sacrificed. This question mattered before, but with the 2H changes and jewelry traits, looks like you don't lose much if any damage at all.

Nerf it if it kills me lol