Should cost poisons be removed from the game?

eso_lags · July 2018

So im sure others have made polls or threads like this but im curious as to why these things are still in the game? And if others think they should be gone.. Let me explain. IMO these are only Xv1 tools. I dont know many people who run them but as a solo pvp player it really hurts when someone has these in a group trying to kill me. In fact 99% of they time they do kill me because my resources just get blown so fast. Same with siphoner but thats another issue.

I just dont see how these things are any good besides outnumbering one player.... If it was like 10 vs 5, they wouldnt help all that much because you have others to lean on... No i think they're just a pointless tool to make solo pvp even worse when someone has them on.. Like 1v1 they're strong thats why people dont usually run them in 1v1s.. But 1v3? Or more? Broken... And there are plenty of other poisons that are strong. Regardless i dont consider many things OP in the game but these poisons are OP....

Anyway, I'm just curious what others think.. Maybe if enough people agree zos will do something about it..

Dillpat · July 2018

Other

the annoying thing about them is how the drain part which gives about 200 per second back to you is the only reason i run them in 1vX or bgs ect. If the resource return part came in a seperate poision i wouldnt use them but when you can get 200 per second return from a single stat through 1 item it seems too good to pass up on. keep in mind i only run the pure cost increase/drain for stamina with nothing else so i can get as longer duration as i can.

the double cost poision i dont use as it doesnt give the same advantage.

Another nice while cheese cost poision open world or in bgs is the ult cost one purley because of how stupid strong incap and overload are, this poision makes the cost of them go up and thus works in a defensive style to take it longer for the enemy to build up said ult.

people may QQ at me for running such poisons but its the only "cheese" i run which compared to sets like wizards and duroks is nothing.

swippy · July 2018

No

my PvP dude is a magplar, and i feel like i'm finally getting the hang of unsupported heads-up fighting in Cyrodiil. (i should probably start dueling to practice this further.) it seems like the only times i die now without crowds around is when i see my blue bar suddenly drop to nothing, which i assume is caused by these poisons.

it seems like a good tool! i might be pretty hard to kill if it weren't for these. i mean, if they did remove them i'm sure people would find other ways to kill me, and i'd love to see what that would be (because my greed for learning far outstretches my ego) but i don't think their effectiveness makes them bad for the game. what feels unfair about it in 1v1, OP? (being outnumbered will always feel unfair to people who choose to look at it that way, whatever the details.)

Mystrius_Archaion · July 2018

Yes

In any game anywhere....it sucks to not be able to do "anything".

That's why these suck. Being out of resources is just the worst thing ever. Every player in every MMO or other game I have ever played has always worked to get unlimited resources before anything else and above anything else.
For example, people may not have cheated god mode in TES5 Skyrim but they probably cheated to have unlimited shouts or unlimited magicka just so they could play how they wanted.

I honestly have never played a MMO before this one that was so bad with resources. Every other one allowed me to have enough total to last a whole fight, with downtime after, or just continually regain during combat if I didn't build absolutely dumbly.

People hate sitting around doing nothing, especially when that is causing them to lose.

Marabornwingrion · July 2018

Yes

Yeah, after Morrowind sustain nerfs these poisons should disappear from the game.
(And I'm saying this as a person who's using them

)

TheYKcid · July 2018

Yes

Agreed with what @Dillpat said. I primarily PvP solo, and the only time I've ever used a resource poison was on a build that needed a slight bit of extra mag sustain (slotting a mag regen glyph or mag food would have been excessive and a big DPS loss).

If the cost-increase effect was removed (perhaps accompanied by a small buff to the sustain effect, to compensate) these poisons would still be very viable and far less cancerous.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO · July 2018

No

they only last 2.3 secs, plus they can do other stuff when combined right

Lysette · July 2018

No

IMO what is OP is your attitude to think, that you always have to have a chance when being outnumbered - this is the way of the beast: If you are outnumbered, it is highly likely that you won't survive it, if all are going after you. To expect that something has to be removed, just because you have a hard time to survive, when outnumbered, is a ridiculous attitude to even request that.

Mystrius_Archaion · July 2018

Yes

Lysette wrote: »

IMO what is OP is your attitude to think, that you always have to have a chance when being outnumbered - this is the way of the beast: If you are outnumbered, it is highly likely that you won't survive it, if all are going after you. To expect that something has to be removed, just because you have a hard time to survive, when outnumbered, is a ridiculous attitude to even request that.

"Don't pvp unless you are sure you can win or have a big group as big as any other you may come against."

So, zerg or don't pvp?

#WhyCyrodiilisDying

Aliyavana · July 2018

Other

I think PvP would be better off

Mannix1958 · July 2018

Yes

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

IMO what is OP is your attitude to think, that you always have to have a chance when being outnumbered - this is the way of the beast: If you are outnumbered, it is highly likely that you won't survive it, if all are going after you. To expect that something has to be removed, just because you have a hard time to survive, when outnumbered, is a ridiculous attitude to even request that.

"Don't pvp unless you are sure you can win or have a big group as big as any other you may come against."

So, zerg or don't pvp?

#WhyCyrodiilisDying

Yeah cuz never in the history of mankind have people ever formed units to fight a war with. There's no such thing as protection in numbers, right? Its broken if war can't be me vs a group. <end sarcasm>

Lysette · July 2018

No

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

IMO what is OP is your attitude to think, that you always have to have a chance when being outnumbered - this is the way of the beast: If you are outnumbered, it is highly likely that you won't survive it, if all are going after you. To expect that something has to be removed, just because you have a hard time to survive, when outnumbered, is a ridiculous attitude to even request that.

"Don't pvp unless you are sure you can win or have a big group as big as any other you may come against."

So, zerg or don't pvp?

#WhyCyrodiilisDying

Just accept, that nothing has to be changed just because you don't win when you are outnumbered. PvP is rarely any fair and to your statement - following Sun Tzu's advice in "the art of war" is not a bad idea - do not start a fight, if you haven't already won - it means exactly this, don't fight if you cannot expect to win with some certainty.

Mureel · July 2018

No

No, but complaining over everything you ever died to should be nerfed and hard.

Datthaw · July 2018

Other

They need to make snake blood affect the weapon poisons. Like why the hell do we have a last lvl passive in alchemy that reduces poison effects.... but only those YOU put on your self. Like how stupid is that?

Mystrius_Archaion · July 2018

Yes

Mannix1958 wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

IMO what is OP is your attitude to think, that you always have to have a chance when being outnumbered - this is the way of the beast: If you are outnumbered, it is highly likely that you won't survive it, if all are going after you. To expect that something has to be removed, just because you have a hard time to survive, when outnumbered, is a ridiculous attitude to even request that.

"Don't pvp unless you are sure you can win or have a big group as big as any other you may come against."

So, zerg or don't pvp?

#WhyCyrodiilisDying

Yeah cuz never in the history of mankind have people ever formed units to fight a war with. There's no such thing as protection in numbers, right? Its broken if war can't be me vs a group. <end sarcasm>

What I meant, and thought was obvious, was that the person above suggested we should just get used to dying when outnumbered, as if we always have a group available to us for pvp.
News Flash: we don't always have a group to be able to pvp with.
Also, the most common pvp group is the zerg that just is completely overwhelming the other side anyway and making it not fun for the other side as much as trying to solo wouldn't be fun.

So, "get a zerg or don't pvp" was my sarcastic interpretation of that.

FYI, real life wars often were started by one person or a small group where they sacrificed many others for their goals and the other side had to bring numbers to survive, by letting a lot die. There is no comparison because neither side really has a choice, either following their megalomaniacal leader or just fighting for their way of life.
There is no comparison to a game where it's all a choice and could never be a fair fight, though war is most often not a fair fight if any side has any control over that.

Mystrius_Archaion · July 2018

Yes

Lysette wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

IMO what is OP is your attitude to think, that you always have to have a chance when being outnumbered - this is the way of the beast: If you are outnumbered, it is highly likely that you won't survive it, if all are going after you. To expect that something has to be removed, just because you have a hard time to survive, when outnumbered, is a ridiculous attitude to even request that.

"Don't pvp unless you are sure you can win or have a big group as big as any other you may come against."

So, zerg or don't pvp?

#WhyCyrodiilisDying

Just accept, that nothing has to be changed just because you don't win when you are outnumbered. PvP is rarely any fair and to your statement - following Sun Tzu's advice in "the art of war" is not a bad idea - do not start a fight, if you haven't already won - it means exactly this, don't fight if you cannot expect to win with some certainty.

It's a video game. It has to be fair.
BUT, you insinuated that we should not pvp because it currently is not fair by saying that it is a good thing that a group has an even stronger advantage over a smaller group/solo player because of cost poisons.

I don't think it's fair to give somebody no chance, not even a chance to activate anything because their resources are gone. That's just adding insult to injury.
You didn't win because you played better or had greater numbers. You won because they ran out of resources, and not because of a long fight but because of a gimmick.

Androconium · July 2018

Other

why?why?why?

In fact 99% of they time they do kill me because my resources just get blown so fast. Same with siphoner but thats another issue.

Why don't you just change your game play?

MakoFore · July 2018

they suck, they stack- and they are brutal in non cp. I've been hit with poisons- cloaked to safety - and sat their watching my health , stam and mag deplete with no counter whatsoever. gear and poisons should be in the game- BUT their power should be nowhere near the power of our skills and actuall skill (weaving, cancelling, skill choice , buffing, etc and timing). as it is- gear procs and poisons make up over 50 percent of a players combat metrics.

but yeah, we ve been complaining about this crap for FOUR years now - with no consequence. in year one- i would make a post almost every other day, or week- id get involved in discussion and debate about skills.

by now- its clear- zos simply dont give a @#$ . they've even hired "community ambassadors" and "class representatives" who's job is- lets face it- to sift thru the crap , unpaid mind you, that is their feedback and forum posts- SO THAT THEY DONT HAVE TO. Why/? COS They simply dont give a @#@#. I loved this game when i first got it- for what it was- but moreso- for its potential - i thought it could be the biggest and best game of all time- that with the right care- it could be like what WOW was.

now its clear it will never live to that potential - due to greed (crown crates) , negligence (cyrodil + balance ) , and pure incompetence (combat balance). i still play it- and enjoy it- but only because now i dont expect anything from it- i dont expect it to get better. thats what it is now.

Lysette · July 2018

No

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

IMO what is OP is your attitude to think, that you always have to have a chance when being outnumbered - this is the way of the beast: If you are outnumbered, it is highly likely that you won't survive it, if all are going after you. To expect that something has to be removed, just because you have a hard time to survive, when outnumbered, is a ridiculous attitude to even request that.

"Don't pvp unless you are sure you can win or have a big group as big as any other you may come against."

So, zerg or don't pvp?

#WhyCyrodiilisDying

Just accept, that nothing has to be changed just because you don't win when you are outnumbered. PvP is rarely any fair and to your statement - following Sun Tzu's advice in "the art of war" is not a bad idea - do not start a fight, if you haven't already won - it means exactly this, don't fight if you cannot expect to win with some certainty.

It's a video game. It has to be fair.
BUT, you insinuated that we should not pvp because it currently is not fair by saying that it is a good thing that a group has an even stronger advantage over a smaller group/solo player because of cost poisons.

I don't think it's fair to give somebody no chance, not even a chance to activate anything because their resources are gone. That's just adding insult to injury.
You didn't win because you played better or had greater numbers. You won because they ran out of resources, and not because of a long fight but because of a gimmick.

Don't read something in what I am saying, what I did not say. Just be reasonable about pvp in a whole. Since when is pvp fair play?- outside maybe of arena setting and duels nothing in pvp is any fair nor should everyone have a chance in every case. And when you are outnumbered and overwhelmed, then there is just no chance at all and you have to avoid getting in such a situation, if you want to survive - this is just the reality of the beast, if you want it or not.

And not because of a gimmick - but by using a valid tactic.

Mystrius_Archaion · July 2018

Yes

Lysette wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

IMO what is OP is your attitude to think, that you always have to have a chance when being outnumbered - this is the way of the beast: If you are outnumbered, it is highly likely that you won't survive it, if all are going after you. To expect that something has to be removed, just because you have a hard time to survive, when outnumbered, is a ridiculous attitude to even request that.

"Don't pvp unless you are sure you can win or have a big group as big as any other you may come against."

So, zerg or don't pvp?

#WhyCyrodiilisDying

Just accept, that nothing has to be changed just because you don't win when you are outnumbered. PvP is rarely any fair and to your statement - following Sun Tzu's advice in "the art of war" is not a bad idea - do not start a fight, if you haven't already won - it means exactly this, don't fight if you cannot expect to win with some certainty.

It's a video game. It has to be fair.
BUT, you insinuated that we should not pvp because it currently is not fair by saying that it is a good thing that a group has an even stronger advantage over a smaller group/solo player because of cost poisons.

I don't think it's fair to give somebody no chance, not even a chance to activate anything because their resources are gone. That's just adding insult to injury.
You didn't win because you played better or had greater numbers. You won because they ran out of resources, and not because of a long fight but because of a gimmick.

Don't read something in what I am saying, what I did not say. Just be reasonable about pvp in a whole. Since when is pvp fair play?- outside maybe of arena setting and duels nothing in pvp is any fair nor should everyone have a chance in every case. And when you are outnumbered and overwhelmed, then there is just no chance at all and you have to avoid getting in such a situation, if you want to survive - this is just the reality of the beast, if you want it or not.

WRONG!
Everyone has access to the same tools and the same gear in some way. They just need to put effort into it just like learning to use it. It is a fair base to it. Adding variables like group sizes on either side is completely different to overall fairness.
Everyone does have a chance to win in every case, no matter how unlikely.

Except, cost poisons take away the ability of a player to act or react to anything because they are suddenly out of resources through no fault of their own. That is not fair nor is it fun, which fun is more important.

Lysette · July 2018

No

you said: Everyone does have a chance to win in every case, no matter how unlikely.

Ok, why don't you fight a war on your very own in RL then and start dominating the word, if this would be any true?- Don't be ridiculous - I feel trolled and stop arguing now.

Kadoin · July 2018

No

No. Without cost poisons some builds would be practically immortal.

Mystrius_Archaion · July 2018

Yes

Lysette wrote: »

you said: Everyone does have a chance to win in every case, no matter how unlikely.

Ok, why don't you fight a war on your very own in RL then and start dominating the word, if this would be any true?- Don't be ridiculous - I feel trolled and stop arguing now.

Martin Luther King Jr.
Ghandi

Those are two people off the top of my head who fought wars, not with violence but with words. They won, even by losing in MLK's case.

It doesn't have to be a win every time though. The other side could just outright be horrible and you could win because you're better than they are.

You're actually trolling me, either that or completely ignorant about the topic you brought up which was "real life war". I didn't bring up that topic.
I've been on topic until you trolled to derail the thread.
But thank you. I now know what you are doing and can skip to the part where I ignore you.

Bigevilpeter · July 2018

Yes

Yes PvP became stupid just one hit and you're out of resources, my only concern is that if they nerf PvE sustain again to balance the *** PvP

Silver_Strider · July 2018

No

I like having the option available.

I honestly made an Assassin's Guile set with Minor Cowardice+Magic Cost poisons specifically because I get tired of Permablocking DKs and nothing screws them over harder than having their main sources of recovery stripped away by a simple poison. I also have Detect Poisons for NBs that want to play hide-and-seek and then just basic Ravage Health+Lingering Health Poisons for more general purpose usage. My damage suffers a bit for using AG and these poisons but I tend to outlast most opponents that I still end up on top in most situations, barring 1vX situations but that's sort of expected by now.

People call it cheese but I find it to be simply being prepared for specific encounters, unlike Proc sets such as Zaan that require little to no effort to utilize and does all the work for you.

eso_lags · July 2018

Yes

Lysette wrote: »

IMO what is OP is your attitude to think, that you always have to have a chance when being outnumbered - this is the way of the beast: If you are outnumbered, it is highly likely that you won't survive it, if all are going after you. To expect that something has to be removed, just because you have a hard time to survive, when outnumbered, is a ridiculous attitude to even request that.

For sure.. You arent wrong. And i dont expect to live.. Actually not expecting to live is what makes solo pvp so fun, because when you do live its awesome. But the point is there are things in this game that are just more of a hindrance to solo players than anything else..

Like the immovable nerf. This hurt solo players the most, even though it was slightly.

Sloads.. Having someone with sloads in a group trying to kill you makes it like 10 times more likely they will...

And the same thing goes for zaan.. But i understand why they did the immovable nerf and put sets in the game like zaan.. It may hurt solo players more than anything else but i understand and accept it.

But cost poisons do no good. They just dont. Because i have fought the same groups of players, a few times actually, who i have beaten many times before but if one of them has cost poisons on i will lose because of resources..

See sloads, zaan, immovable nerf, etc... They all have other uses.. Certain builds, pve, whatever.. But cost poisons are really only good if you are outnumbering someone... And what are you sacrificing? Very little. Your weapon damage enchant.. Thats it..

eso_lags · July 2018

Yes

Androconium wrote: »

why?why?why?

In fact 99% of they time they do kill me because my resources just get blown so fast. Same with siphoner but thats another issue.

Why don't you just change your game play?

Why would i do that? What game play should i change? Im on a stam sorc FFS! I can literally kite like 6 people all around cyrodil if i wanted to without them catching me. Never running out of resources.

No I could even be fighting 2 people and i see when my resources disappear in seconds. When i can only streak one time and be nearly out of magic from full... When my stam is not moving.

I mean i get what you're saying. Like if i die to having no resources then its my fault. But no this is something that happens rarely. I've played for 3 years, solo pvp for 2. I know what it looks like when I've been hit with cost poisons. Its not often but when it happens you're screwed..

Honestly i shouldnt have even written my experience in the thread.. I feel like people are basing their opinion on my solo experience. No i just want to know if others dislike them as much as i do. And i would guess maybe 5% of pvp players are solo/small group players... And those would probably be the players that would dislike them anyway. in a 12 or 24 player group i doubt you would even notice them on you.

eso_lags · July 2018

Yes

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I like having the option available.

I honestly made an Assassin's Guile set with Minor Cowardice+Magic Cost poisons specifically because I get tired of Permablocking DKs and nothing screws them over harder than having their main sources of recovery stripped away by a simple poison. I also have Detect Poisons for NBs that want to play hide-and-seek and then just basic Ravage Health+Lingering Health Poisons for more general purpose usage. My damage suffers a bit for using AG and these poisons but I tend to outlast most opponents that I still end up on top in most situations, barring 1vX situations but that's sort of expected by now.

People call it cheese but I find it to be simply being prepared for specific encounters, unlike Proc sets such as Zaan that require little to no effort to utilize and does all the work for you.

I get it but it seems with AG and cost poisons you are only preparing for fights against a perma block dk or templar. I mean i've fought nightblades with AG and immovables in 1v1s and still won no prob. 1v1 the cost poisons arent as bad as 1vx. But against a really good player of course they would have the advantage running them. Esp on a strong class.

And i dont seem to have problems with mag dks on my stam sorc these days... Certain magplars yes. They just dont seem to be as common as other things in cyro.. And when they're around i just pop a lingering health pot to survive their dots.

DuskMarine · July 2018

No

saying this should be removed is like saying wards should be removed. its a horrible suggestion cause its perma blockers and shield spamming noobs hard counter. no need to remove it just find a way around it. or adapt.

TheDoomsdayMonster · July 2018

No

I used to have a problem with Resource Poisons, but have since learned to deal with them...

With a proper build, one should be able to cope with a Resource Poison without much of a problem; I barely even notice them nowadays...

generalmyrick · July 2018

No

if cost poison are so overpowered...

WHY DONT YOU USE THEM INSTEAD OF CALLING FOR NERFS????

The Elder Scrolls Online

Should cost poisons be removed from the game?

Should cost poisons be removed from the game? 197 votes