The stat increases granted by Gold gear should be significantly higher than Purple gear

DenMoria · June 2018

And there should be significant boost between green and blue and blue and purple, but that doesn't happen either.

Azurephoenix999 wrote: »

Yeah, you heard me. Gold gear is, in most cases, simply not worth upgrading due to the cost of doing it and the miniscule bonuses we get for it.

I believe that if we upgrade our gear from Purple to Gold, ESPECIALLY IN THE CASE OF JEWELRY, we should get a significantly higher boost to the gear's stats.

If the cost remains as high as it is, the increase in stats should be raised to match it.

Twohothardware · June 2018

The problem is the gain for upgrading a weapon to gold nets you as much as upgrading all 7 body pieces and 3 Jewelry to Gold. If upgrading 1 body piece is going to cost the same as upgrading a weapon to Gold then it needs to be a bigger boost than where it is now.

griffkhalifa · June 2018

No.

Golding out your gear is for the hardcore players who have the resources to slightly increase their power. Making gold gear significantly increase a player's power will exclude those who don't have the time/resources to grind for that gear from doing endgame content.

It's fine the way it is. If it's not worth it to you, don't do it.

DenMoria · June 2018

You realize that that's the point, yes? It's all about who has the biggest stick to waive around.

griffkhalifa wrote: »

No.

Golding out your gear is for the hardcore players who have the resources to slightly increase their power. Making gold gear significantly increase a player's power will exclude those who don't have the time/resources to grind for that gear from doing endgame content.

It's fine the way it is. If it's not worth it to you, don't do it.

LiquidPony · June 2018

No thanks.

I don't really want to have to gold out all of my gear on all of my characters every 3 months when a new patch drops and the meta completely changes. If that happened, I'd never actually get to play the game. I'd spend a bunch of time farming new gear and then a bunch of time farming mats or gold to upgrade it, and by the time I got done a new patch would drop and I'd do it all over again.

As it stands, upgrading weapons to gold makes a huge difference, and that seems like a good balance to me. Everyone is "required" to upgrade a few items to gold quality to get into that top tier of potential, but beyond that it's mostly optional as upgrading armor is generally a very small gain.

If the cost of upgrading jewelry to gold doesn't seem like it's worth it, then don't do it. Eventually (hopefully) ZOS will tweak the grind involved in jewelry improvement, prices will come down, and upgrading jewelry will be more palatable.

BretonMage · June 2018

No - unless they make gold jewellery upgrades easier to achieve. It's controversial enough now, imagine how much worse it will get if people felt compelled to upgrade....

Twohothardware · June 2018

griffkhalifa wrote: »

No.

Golding out your gear is for the hardcore players who have the resources to slightly increase their power. Making gold gear significantly increase a player's power will exclude those who don't have the time/resources to grind for that gear from doing endgame content.

It's fine the way it is. If it's not worth it to you, don't do it.

Then lower the cost to upgrade. Body pieces and Jewelry should require half the Gold mats they do now since they give a fraction of the bonus you get from upgrading a weapon to Gold.

griffkhalifa · June 2018

DenMoria wrote: »

You realize that that's the point, yes? It's all about who has the biggest stick to waive around.

griffkhalifa wrote: »

No.

Golding out your gear is for the hardcore players who have the resources to slightly increase their power. Making gold gear significantly increase a player's power will exclude those who don't have the time/resources to grind for that gear from doing endgame content.

It's fine the way it is. If it's not worth it to you, don't do it.

Yes, I do realize that. And the current system allows that while still maintaining accessibility for those who don't have hundreds of hours to spend on the game.

srfrogg23 · June 2018

All I heard was “lower the cost”. The power creep is real.

griffkhalifa · June 2018

Twohothardware wrote: »

griffkhalifa wrote: »

No.

Golding out your gear is for the hardcore players who have the resources to slightly increase their power. Making gold gear significantly increase a player's power will exclude those who don't have the time/resources to grind for that gear from doing endgame content.

It's fine the way it is. If it's not worth it to you, don't do it.

Then lower the cost to upgrade. Body pieces and Jewelry should require half the Gold mats they do now since they give a fraction of the bonus you get from upgrading a weapon to Gold.

I agree with that. I think it's ridiculous you need 8 gold upgrade materials to upgrade one piece of gear (and yes, I realize you can do it with a lesser amount but no one does that because they don't want to risk destroying the piece of equipment). Last I checked these materials went for about 8k in the guild stores, so 64k gold just to slightly increase the power of one piece of gear is absurd. But I don't think the solution is making the gear more powerful, I think it's like you said, reducing the amount of materials required to upgrade.

D0PAMINE · June 2018

It would be too easy and fights would be boring is you killed things even quicker than we do now.

LiquidPony · June 2018

griffkhalifa wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

griffkhalifa wrote: »

No.

Golding out your gear is for the hardcore players who have the resources to slightly increase their power. Making gold gear significantly increase a player's power will exclude those who don't have the time/resources to grind for that gear from doing endgame content.

It's fine the way it is. If it's not worth it to you, don't do it.

Then lower the cost to upgrade. Body pieces and Jewelry should require half the Gold mats they do now since they give a fraction of the bonus you get from upgrading a weapon to Gold.

I agree with that. I think it's ridiculous you need 8 gold upgrade materials to upgrade one piece of gear (and yes, I realize you can do it with a lesser amount but no one does that because they don't want to risk destroying the piece of equipment). Last I checked these materials went for about 8k in the guild stores, so 64k gold just to slightly increase the power of one piece of gear is absurd. But I don't think the solution is making the gear more powerful, I think it's like you said, reducing the amount of materials required to upgrade.

On PC/NA, Rosin is going for ~2-2.5k, Dreugh Wax is ~3-4k, Tempering Alloys should be less than 5k.

YMMV depending on platform but it shouldn't cost 64k to upgrade a piece of gear, especially since most players ought to have at least some of the mats required from deconstruction, refinement, and writs.

starkerealm · June 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

No it shouldn't. This adds parity while still making gold gear the best. And golding out your gear is incredibly cheap right now.

PC/NA prices:

x7 heavy armour = ~300k
x2 metal weapon = ~90k
x7 light/medium = ~200k
x2 wood weapon = ~40k

It only takes around 250-350k to gold out an entire set (other than jewellery, but you can get gold jewllery from trials and Cyrodiil vendor too without having to manually upgrade it).

Prices are higher on consoles because of inflation, but it also means you have more gold because you can sell mats for more.

Two things @MLGProPlayer. First, those are the prices when no one is holding a gun to anyone's head. Golding out gear at those prices is for prestige or as an idiot tax. If it became mandatory, supply would not keep up, and the prices would rise significantly.

At that point, you're also realistically looking at upgrading jewelry becoming mandatory. Meaning that Summerset would no longer, "just," be a fun optional purchase, but something you needed if you intended to run endgame content (even if you could already do so), and it would inflate the price by slightly over 1 million gold per piece.

Also, 350k gold is not, "incredibly cheap." If you've been around for years, and can dump a lot of valuable goodies into a guild kiosk, sure. I mean, i could pay that, not that I'd need to as I have stacks of gold upgrade mats for everything except jewelry. But, for someone starting out? That is a lot of money.

MLGProPlayer · June 2018

starkerealm wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

No it shouldn't. This adds parity while still making gold gear the best. And golding out your gear is incredibly cheap right now.

PC/NA prices:

x7 heavy armour = ~300k
x2 metal weapon = ~90k
x7 light/medium = ~200k
x2 wood weapon = ~40k

It only takes around 250-350k to gold out an entire set (other than jewellery, but you can get gold jewllery from trials and Cyrodiil vendor too without having to manually upgrade it).

Prices are higher on consoles because of inflation, but it also means you have more gold because you can sell mats for more.

Two things @MLGProPlayer. First, those are the prices when no one is holding a gun to anyone's head. Golding out gear at those prices is for prestige or as an idiot tax. If it became mandatory, supply would not keep up, and the prices would rise significantly.

At that point, you're also realistically looking at upgrading jewelry becoming mandatory. Meaning that Summerset would no longer, "just," be a fun optional purchase, but something you needed if you intended to run endgame content (even if you could already do so), and it would inflate the price by slightly over 1 million gold per piece.

Also, 350k gold is not, "incredibly cheap." If you've been around for years, and can dump a lot of valuable goodies into a guild kiosk, sure. I mean, i could pay that, not that I'd need to as I have stacks of gold upgrade mats for everything except jewelry. But, for someone starting out? That is a lot of money.

1. I said I didn't want an increase to gold stats
2. That's the price to pay if you want optimal stats, it's not an "idiot tax"
3. New players don't need optimal gear

Danksta · June 2018

If they were to make it more necessary to upgrade your gear to gold it would just increase demand, thus increasing it's price and the op would still be complaining that it's too expensive to upgrade gear to gold.

starkerealm · June 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

No it shouldn't. This adds parity while still making gold gear the best. And golding out your gear is incredibly cheap right now.

PC/NA prices:

x7 heavy armour = ~300k
x2 metal weapon = ~90k
x7 light/medium = ~200k
x2 wood weapon = ~40k

It only takes around 250-350k to gold out an entire set (other than jewellery, but you can get gold jewllery from trials and Cyrodiil vendor too without having to manually upgrade it).

Prices are higher on consoles because of inflation, but it also means you have more gold because you can sell mats for more.

Two things @MLGProPlayer. First, those are the prices when no one is holding a gun to anyone's head. Golding out gear at those prices is for prestige or as an idiot tax. If it became mandatory, supply would not keep up, and the prices would rise significantly.

At that point, you're also realistically looking at upgrading jewelry becoming mandatory. Meaning that Summerset would no longer, "just," be a fun optional purchase, but something you needed if you intended to run endgame content (even if you could already do so), and it would inflate the price by slightly over 1 million gold per piece.

Also, 350k gold is not, "incredibly cheap." If you've been around for years, and can dump a lot of valuable goodies into a guild kiosk, sure. I mean, i could pay that, not that I'd need to as I have stacks of gold upgrade mats for everything except jewelry. But, for someone starting out? That is a lot of money.

1. I said I didn't want an increase to gold stats
2. That's the price to pay if you want optimal stats, it's not an "idiot tax"
3. New players don't need optimal gear

1. I missed the, "no it shouldn't," at the beginning.
2. Like I said, it's either for prestige or it's an idiot tax. If you know what you're doing, then upgrading to gold is a marginal increase. So, you either do it because you think having all gold gear would be a cool thing to do, or you mistakenly think it's far more important than it actually is.
3. New players don't, but if there was a significant power increase for gold, then it would become a mandatory wall for players before they could advance to vet content. Which was, kinda, the point of this thread.

I mean, making gold gear a more significant increase is a bad idea on so many levels. And, yes, if you want to eek out a tiny bit more power, you can afford to. Like I said, that's prestige. It doesn't matter, but it's cool to have. And, yeah, when we're talking about a difference of less than 10 to your stam/magicka limits, that's pretty irrelevant.

It's cool to have, and if it makes you feel more powerful, good on you, but it isn't enough to really think about seriously.

MLGProPlayer · June 2018

starkerealm wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

No it shouldn't. This adds parity while still making gold gear the best. And golding out your gear is incredibly cheap right now.

PC/NA prices:

x7 heavy armour = ~300k
x2 metal weapon = ~90k
x7 light/medium = ~200k
x2 wood weapon = ~40k

It only takes around 250-350k to gold out an entire set (other than jewellery, but you can get gold jewllery from trials and Cyrodiil vendor too without having to manually upgrade it).

Prices are higher on consoles because of inflation, but it also means you have more gold because you can sell mats for more.

Two things @MLGProPlayer. First, those are the prices when no one is holding a gun to anyone's head. Golding out gear at those prices is for prestige or as an idiot tax. If it became mandatory, supply would not keep up, and the prices would rise significantly.

At that point, you're also realistically looking at upgrading jewelry becoming mandatory. Meaning that Summerset would no longer, "just," be a fun optional purchase, but something you needed if you intended to run endgame content (even if you could already do so), and it would inflate the price by slightly over 1 million gold per piece.

Also, 350k gold is not, "incredibly cheap." If you've been around for years, and can dump a lot of valuable goodies into a guild kiosk, sure. I mean, i could pay that, not that I'd need to as I have stacks of gold upgrade mats for everything except jewelry. But, for someone starting out? That is a lot of money.

1. I said I didn't want an increase to gold stats
2. That's the price to pay if you want optimal stats, it's not an "idiot tax"
3. New players don't need optimal gear

1. I missed the, "no it shouldn't," at the beginning.
2. Like I said, it's either for prestige or it's an idiot tax. If you know what you're doing, then upgrading to gold is a marginal increase. So, you either do it because you think having all gold gear would be a cool thing to do, or you mistakenly think it's far more important than it actually is.
3. New players don't, but if there was a significant power increase for gold, then it would become a mandatory wall for players before they could advance to vet content. Which was, kinda, the point of this thread.

I mean, making gold gear a more significant increase is a bad idea on so many levels. And, yes, if you want to eek out a tiny bit more power, you can afford to. Like I said, that's prestige. It doesn't matter, but it's cool to have. And, yeah, when we're talking about a difference of less than 10 to your stam/magicka limits, that's pretty irrelevant.

It's cool to have, and if it makes you feel more powerful, good on you, but it isn't enough to really think about seriously.

Let's assume player A and B have equal skill. Player A has all purple gear. Player B has all gold gear.

Player B will outperform Player A 10 times out of 10. Even if it is only marginal, it is still better. Min-maxing never gives you a huge advantage, but it does give you an advantage, and that's why people pursue it. It's the only way to be the best.

SteveCampsOut · June 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

No it shouldn't. This adds parity while still making gold gear the best. And golding out your gear is incredibly cheap right now.

PC/NA prices:

x7 heavy armour = ~300k
x2 metal weapon = ~90k
x7 light/medium = ~200k
x2 wood weapon = ~40k

It only takes around 250-350k to gold out an entire set (other than jewellery, but you can get gold jewllery from trials and Cyrodiil vendor too without having to manually upgrade it).

Prices are higher on consoles because of inflation, but it also means you have more gold because you can sell mats for more.

Two things @MLGProPlayer. First, those are the prices when no one is holding a gun to anyone's head. Golding out gear at those prices is for prestige or as an idiot tax. If it became mandatory, supply would not keep up, and the prices would rise significantly.

At that point, you're also realistically looking at upgrading jewelry becoming mandatory. Meaning that Summerset would no longer, "just," be a fun optional purchase, but something you needed if you intended to run endgame content (even if you could already do so), and it would inflate the price by slightly over 1 million gold per piece.

Also, 350k gold is not, "incredibly cheap." If you've been around for years, and can dump a lot of valuable goodies into a guild kiosk, sure. I mean, i could pay that, not that I'd need to as I have stacks of gold upgrade mats for everything except jewelry. But, for someone starting out? That is a lot of money.

1. I said I didn't want an increase to gold stats
2. That's the price to pay if you want optimal stats, it's not an "idiot tax"
3. New players don't need optimal gear

1. I missed the, "no it shouldn't," at the beginning.
2. Like I said, it's either for prestige or it's an idiot tax. If you know what you're doing, then upgrading to gold is a marginal increase. So, you either do it because you think having all gold gear would be a cool thing to do, or you mistakenly think it's far more important than it actually is.
3. New players don't, but if there was a significant power increase for gold, then it would become a mandatory wall for players before they could advance to vet content. Which was, kinda, the point of this thread.

I mean, making gold gear a more significant increase is a bad idea on so many levels. And, yes, if you want to eek out a tiny bit more power, you can afford to. Like I said, that's prestige. It doesn't matter, but it's cool to have. And, yeah, when we're talking about a difference of less than 10 to your stam/magicka limits, that's pretty irrelevant.

It's cool to have, and if it makes you feel more powerful, good on you, but it isn't enough to really think about seriously.

Let's assume player A and B have equal skill. Player A has all purple gear. Player B has all gold gear.

Player B will outperform Player A 10 times out of 10. Even if it is only marginal, it is still better. Min-maxing never gives you a huge advantage, but it does give you an advantage, and that's why people pursue it. It's the only way to be the best.

WRONG! You were fine til you said that it was the only way to be the best. Being the best means being more skilled. Period. There's a difference in "Being" the best and "Having" the best gear. Player A could beat Player B if they were better skilled, regardless of gear.

starkerealm · June 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

No it shouldn't. This adds parity while still making gold gear the best. And golding out your gear is incredibly cheap right now.

PC/NA prices:

x7 heavy armour = ~300k
x2 metal weapon = ~90k
x7 light/medium = ~200k
x2 wood weapon = ~40k

It only takes around 250-350k to gold out an entire set (other than jewellery, but you can get gold jewllery from trials and Cyrodiil vendor too without having to manually upgrade it).

Prices are higher on consoles because of inflation, but it also means you have more gold because you can sell mats for more.

Two things @MLGProPlayer. First, those are the prices when no one is holding a gun to anyone's head. Golding out gear at those prices is for prestige or as an idiot tax. If it became mandatory, supply would not keep up, and the prices would rise significantly.

At that point, you're also realistically looking at upgrading jewelry becoming mandatory. Meaning that Summerset would no longer, "just," be a fun optional purchase, but something you needed if you intended to run endgame content (even if you could already do so), and it would inflate the price by slightly over 1 million gold per piece.

Also, 350k gold is not, "incredibly cheap." If you've been around for years, and can dump a lot of valuable goodies into a guild kiosk, sure. I mean, i could pay that, not that I'd need to as I have stacks of gold upgrade mats for everything except jewelry. But, for someone starting out? That is a lot of money.

1. I said I didn't want an increase to gold stats
2. That's the price to pay if you want optimal stats, it's not an "idiot tax"
3. New players don't need optimal gear

1. I missed the, "no it shouldn't," at the beginning.
2. Like I said, it's either for prestige or it's an idiot tax. If you know what you're doing, then upgrading to gold is a marginal increase. So, you either do it because you think having all gold gear would be a cool thing to do, or you mistakenly think it's far more important than it actually is.
3. New players don't, but if there was a significant power increase for gold, then it would become a mandatory wall for players before they could advance to vet content. Which was, kinda, the point of this thread.

I mean, making gold gear a more significant increase is a bad idea on so many levels. And, yes, if you want to eek out a tiny bit more power, you can afford to. Like I said, that's prestige. It doesn't matter, but it's cool to have. And, yeah, when we're talking about a difference of less than 10 to your stam/magicka limits, that's pretty irrelevant.

It's cool to have, and if it makes you feel more powerful, good on you, but it isn't enough to really think about seriously.

Let's assume player A and B have equal skill. Player A has all purple gear. Player B has all gold gear.

Player B will outperform Player A 10 times out of 10. Even if it is only marginal, it is still better. Min-maxing never gives you a huge advantage, but it does give you an advantage, and that's why people pursue it. It's the only way to be the best.

Two things here. First: If A has all purple gear, then the difference will not be marginal. If A has gold weapons, then the difference will be.

Second: I get the whole examination in a vacuum, "we cloned a player, and gave one version marginally better gear," as an academic point. The problem is, it cannot happen in a live environment. There will always be fluctuation between players on individual skill. The upgrade from purple to gold (except on weapons) is so narrow that it will not exceed minor variances in skill. "We took two players of roughly equal skill," and the result would be that most of the time, the player in gold gear will outperform the player in purple by a narrow margin. However, that margin will be so narrow as to be irrelevant in any realistic scenario.

You can create abstract, "well, they're almost good enough to clear vHoF, and legendary gear just pushes them over the threshold," but, while that makes sense logically, it has no relation to actual, in game, content. If someone can't clear X in purple, they won't be able to do it in gold.

If you're talking about score, where every little bit still counts for the score? Sure. Then it matters. But, it's still pretty minor. Your average player will still get more millage from practicing their rotation/role, than they would get from spending that same amount of time grinding up the mats and upgrading their gear.

MLGProPlayer · June 2018

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

No it shouldn't. This adds parity while still making gold gear the best. And golding out your gear is incredibly cheap right now.

PC/NA prices:

x7 heavy armour = ~300k
x2 metal weapon = ~90k
x7 light/medium = ~200k
x2 wood weapon = ~40k

It only takes around 250-350k to gold out an entire set (other than jewellery, but you can get gold jewllery from trials and Cyrodiil vendor too without having to manually upgrade it).

Prices are higher on consoles because of inflation, but it also means you have more gold because you can sell mats for more.

Two things @MLGProPlayer. First, those are the prices when no one is holding a gun to anyone's head. Golding out gear at those prices is for prestige or as an idiot tax. If it became mandatory, supply would not keep up, and the prices would rise significantly.

At that point, you're also realistically looking at upgrading jewelry becoming mandatory. Meaning that Summerset would no longer, "just," be a fun optional purchase, but something you needed if you intended to run endgame content (even if you could already do so), and it would inflate the price by slightly over 1 million gold per piece.

Also, 350k gold is not, "incredibly cheap." If you've been around for years, and can dump a lot of valuable goodies into a guild kiosk, sure. I mean, i could pay that, not that I'd need to as I have stacks of gold upgrade mats for everything except jewelry. But, for someone starting out? That is a lot of money.

1. I said I didn't want an increase to gold stats
2. That's the price to pay if you want optimal stats, it's not an "idiot tax"
3. New players don't need optimal gear

1. I missed the, "no it shouldn't," at the beginning.
2. Like I said, it's either for prestige or it's an idiot tax. If you know what you're doing, then upgrading to gold is a marginal increase. So, you either do it because you think having all gold gear would be a cool thing to do, or you mistakenly think it's far more important than it actually is.
3. New players don't, but if there was a significant power increase for gold, then it would become a mandatory wall for players before they could advance to vet content. Which was, kinda, the point of this thread.

I mean, making gold gear a more significant increase is a bad idea on so many levels. And, yes, if you want to eek out a tiny bit more power, you can afford to. Like I said, that's prestige. It doesn't matter, but it's cool to have. And, yeah, when we're talking about a difference of less than 10 to your stam/magicka limits, that's pretty irrelevant.

It's cool to have, and if it makes you feel more powerful, good on you, but it isn't enough to really think about seriously.

Let's assume player A and B have equal skill. Player A has all purple gear. Player B has all gold gear.

Player B will outperform Player A 10 times out of 10. Even if it is only marginal, it is still better. Min-maxing never gives you a huge advantage, but it does give you an advantage, and that's why people pursue it. It's the only way to be the best.

WRONG! You were fine til you said that it was the only way to be the best. Being the best means being more skilled. Period. There's a difference in "Being" the best and "Having" the best gear. Player A could beat Player B if they were better skilled, regardless of gear.

Assuming equal skill between players, the only way to be the best is to have the best gear. You won't find a single top raider that doesn't run gold gear in score runs.

DanteYoda · June 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

No it shouldn't. This adds parity while still making gold gear the best. And golding out your gear is incredibly cheap right now.

PC/NA prices:

x7 heavy armour = ~300k
x2 metal weapon = ~90k
x7 light/medium = ~200k
x2 wood weapon = ~40k

It only takes around 250-350k to gold out an entire set (other than jewellery, but you can get gold jewllery from trials and Cyrodiil vendor too without having to manually upgrade it).

Prices are higher on consoles because of inflation, but it also means you have more gold because you can sell mats for more.

Two things @MLGProPlayer. First, those are the prices when no one is holding a gun to anyone's head. Golding out gear at those prices is for prestige or as an idiot tax. If it became mandatory, supply would not keep up, and the prices would rise significantly.

At that point, you're also realistically looking at upgrading jewelry becoming mandatory. Meaning that Summerset would no longer, "just," be a fun optional purchase, but something you needed if you intended to run endgame content (even if you could already do so), and it would inflate the price by slightly over 1 million gold per piece.

Also, 350k gold is not, "incredibly cheap." If you've been around for years, and can dump a lot of valuable goodies into a guild kiosk, sure. I mean, i could pay that, not that I'd need to as I have stacks of gold upgrade mats for everything except jewelry. But, for someone starting out? That is a lot of money.

1. I said I didn't want an increase to gold stats
2. That's the price to pay if you want optimal stats, it's not an "idiot tax"
3. New players don't need optimal gear

I agree with you completely but it very much is an idiot tax.. The whole crafting setup is.

Beardimus · June 2018

At inital glance i understand what you are saying, i felt the same when i first came to gold things.

But now i disagree. Weapons see a good gain in damage, and armour being small allows you to theory craft more easily. If i had to gold everything to keep making comparisons it would be a nightmare.

The gain is small, but its worth it to cement your set for the moment. Plus the cost of tempers etc doesn't need to go up right now.

Still_Mind · June 2018

I disagree with the OP. Gear gaps should be tightened, not widened.

starkerealm · June 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

No it shouldn't. This adds parity while still making gold gear the best. And golding out your gear is incredibly cheap right now.

PC/NA prices:

x7 heavy armour = ~300k
x2 metal weapon = ~90k
x7 light/medium = ~200k
x2 wood weapon = ~40k

It only takes around 250-350k to gold out an entire set (other than jewellery, but you can get gold jewllery from trials and Cyrodiil vendor too without having to manually upgrade it).

Prices are higher on consoles because of inflation, but it also means you have more gold because you can sell mats for more.

Two things @MLGProPlayer. First, those are the prices when no one is holding a gun to anyone's head. Golding out gear at those prices is for prestige or as an idiot tax. If it became mandatory, supply would not keep up, and the prices would rise significantly.

At that point, you're also realistically looking at upgrading jewelry becoming mandatory. Meaning that Summerset would no longer, "just," be a fun optional purchase, but something you needed if you intended to run endgame content (even if you could already do so), and it would inflate the price by slightly over 1 million gold per piece.

Also, 350k gold is not, "incredibly cheap." If you've been around for years, and can dump a lot of valuable goodies into a guild kiosk, sure. I mean, i could pay that, not that I'd need to as I have stacks of gold upgrade mats for everything except jewelry. But, for someone starting out? That is a lot of money.

1. I said I didn't want an increase to gold stats
2. That's the price to pay if you want optimal stats, it's not an "idiot tax"
3. New players don't need optimal gear

1. I missed the, "no it shouldn't," at the beginning.
2. Like I said, it's either for prestige or it's an idiot tax. If you know what you're doing, then upgrading to gold is a marginal increase. So, you either do it because you think having all gold gear would be a cool thing to do, or you mistakenly think it's far more important than it actually is.
3. New players don't, but if there was a significant power increase for gold, then it would become a mandatory wall for players before they could advance to vet content. Which was, kinda, the point of this thread.

I mean, making gold gear a more significant increase is a bad idea on so many levels. And, yes, if you want to eek out a tiny bit more power, you can afford to. Like I said, that's prestige. It doesn't matter, but it's cool to have. And, yeah, when we're talking about a difference of less than 10 to your stam/magicka limits, that's pretty irrelevant.

It's cool to have, and if it makes you feel more powerful, good on you, but it isn't enough to really think about seriously.

Let's assume player A and B have equal skill. Player A has all purple gear. Player B has all gold gear.

Player B will outperform Player A 10 times out of 10. Even if it is only marginal, it is still better. Min-maxing never gives you a huge advantage, but it does give you an advantage, and that's why people pursue it. It's the only way to be the best.

WRONG! You were fine til you said that it was the only way to be the best. Being the best means being more skilled. Period. There's a difference in "Being" the best and "Having" the best gear. Player A could beat Player B if they were better skilled, regardless of gear.

Assuming equal skill between players, the only way to be the best is to have the best gear. You won't find a single top raider that doesn't run gold gear in score runs.

Assuming equal skill between players is a fantasy. No two players will have identical degrees of skill.

The_Protagonist · June 2018

If this were to be implemented, imagine the horror threads in forums about how they died to a gold temper.

PvE content may become easier, that is not so much of a concern for me, but PvP will become a nightmare for a player that cannot afford to gold out their gear. The Floor will fall and Roof will levitate into oblivion.

Things are okay as they are, leave it alone, talk about lag or the new bugs that have infested even the prized crown store.

Some times I have nightmares that I see nothing but hamsters jumping on keyboards on the developers systems just before a patch comes out.

starkerealm · June 2018

DanteYoda wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

No it shouldn't. This adds parity while still making gold gear the best. And golding out your gear is incredibly cheap right now.

PC/NA prices:

x7 heavy armour = ~300k
x2 metal weapon = ~90k
x7 light/medium = ~200k
x2 wood weapon = ~40k

It only takes around 250-350k to gold out an entire set (other than jewellery, but you can get gold jewllery from trials and Cyrodiil vendor too without having to manually upgrade it).

Prices are higher on consoles because of inflation, but it also means you have more gold because you can sell mats for more.

Two things @MLGProPlayer. First, those are the prices when no one is holding a gun to anyone's head. Golding out gear at those prices is for prestige or as an idiot tax. If it became mandatory, supply would not keep up, and the prices would rise significantly.

At that point, you're also realistically looking at upgrading jewelry becoming mandatory. Meaning that Summerset would no longer, "just," be a fun optional purchase, but something you needed if you intended to run endgame content (even if you could already do so), and it would inflate the price by slightly over 1 million gold per piece.

Also, 350k gold is not, "incredibly cheap." If you've been around for years, and can dump a lot of valuable goodies into a guild kiosk, sure. I mean, i could pay that, not that I'd need to as I have stacks of gold upgrade mats for everything except jewelry. But, for someone starting out? That is a lot of money.

1. I said I didn't want an increase to gold stats
2. That's the price to pay if you want optimal stats, it's not an "idiot tax"
3. New players don't need optimal gear

I agree with you completely but it very much is an idiot tax.. The whole crafting setup is.

Some elements are not. Crafting can get you perfect traited sets that will serve you very well.

Sets like Hundings or Julianos may not be flashy, and they may not be lauded as BiS META, but they're good. Good enough that you can clear endgame content with them. They're easy to use, and consistently solid. They don't break, they don't get nerfed. They're just, there. And, best of all, you don't need to run Darkshade fifty-three times hoping to get a piece that isn't in training.

So, yeah, there is a point to crafting gear. Crafting consumables is pretty viable as well. Alchemy's a little fiddly, but useful. Food is simple and useful. Enchanting opens up a lot of doors for builds you might not have thought of. Jewelry crafting is, simultaneously a bit frustrating, and really, really nice. Especially for turning some sets inside out.

starkerealm · June 2018

The_Protagonist wrote: »

If this were to be implemented, imagine the horror threads in forums about how they died to a gold temper.

PvE content may become easier, that is not so much of a concern for me, but PvP will become a nightmare for a player that cannot afford to gold out their gear. The Floor will fall and Roof will levitate into oblivion.

Things are okay as they are, leave it alone, talk about lag or the new bugs that have infested even the prized crown store.

Some times I have nightmares that I see nothing but hamsters jumping on keyboards on the developers systems just before a patch comes out.

Well, having met the devs, I can assure you, they're not hamsters.

Unless... you think they're hamsters in disguise.

Kuwhar · June 2018

Only if you all agree to stop making "game is too easy" threads

But really, why? So everyone in gold gear can be THAT much better off?

Gold gear is meant to be the last step in progression, gains may be "small" compared to purple but its not meant to be to be god mode progression.

AuldWolf · June 2018

No, it absolutely should not.

This is another case of the <1 per cent screaming for appeasement to the detriment of >99 per cent of the people playing this game. This would leave you screaming even louder for harder overlnad content. You hardcore players don't even know what you want, and that ruins games.

I've explained this before, but let's do it again for the benefit of anyone I haven't explained this to a million times already:

Hardcore players: Loot should give us better stats!
Developer: Okay!
Hardcore players: The content is too easy, make it harder!
Developer: Okay!
Hardcore players: Make it worth it, loot should give better stats!
Developer: Okay!
Hardcore players: The game is too easy now, make the content harder!!
Developer: Okay!
Hardcore players: The rewards aren't worth it for the difficulty, give us better stats!
Developer: Okay!
Casual players: Wow, we can't even get into this. Well, we'll take our vast amounts of money to another game.
Developer: Our game is haemorrhaging players! Oh nnooooo~, who could've seen this coming????? Our game now has to go on life support! We can't afford to sustain it! There's no money!
Hardcore players: Make new content!
Developer: Give us money!
Hardcore players: You owe us for working in your grindmines. More content, NOW!
Developer: We're sorry to say we've had to sunset our game.

I've seen this story play out probably hundreds of times, by now. It's robbed me of a number of games I loved.

Funny thing? I saw a thread on Reddit the other day about how a hardcore player felt like their demographic was like a plague of locusts. They descend on a game to pick the bones clean, then when the content dries up because the developer can no longer sustain themselves, they move onto another game. And then another. And then another. And then another.

It was a rare moment of self-awareness for a hardcore player where they realised they no longer wanted to be a hardcore player.

Similarly, look at what Blizzard have started doing, in World of Warcraft, of all things. Blizzard. They've started resetting the grind of the hardcore with each new expansion to keep the game at least somewhat accessible to casuals. The forums are hilarious right now because people are complaining about their shiny artefact weapons will be removed from the game.

There are threads literally titled: ALL THIS HARD WORK AND YOU SHORT US FOR IT, FU BLIZZARD.

'Hard work.' Seriously? And what do they feel they're being 'shorted?' It's a video game.

This is exactly why ZOS should never listen to threads like this. Even Blizzard is beginning to realise that appeasing the hardcore is a fool's errand.

Xuhora · June 2018

I was sooo waiting the whole time for this guy above me to show up

Edit for first line to be accurate:
This Thread has nothing to do with "hardcore"games demmanding something that "casuals" can never aquire... This post is the sole reaction to a ratio that is way way out of context... The ammount of materials one needs to upgrade jewelry to gold is just not worth it, neither the gold nor the grind... This Thread was bound to happen with that ratio... And this Thread amongst all others of that kind is needed, because its just a gamedisgn choice that lacks reasoning...

I realy wish your hatred and your witchhunt would not go so far that you even cant reunite with your so called "hardcore"gamers on a topic that clearly hurts EVERYONES pleasure with this game...