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Sorcs are easy. Okay
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Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
Bull***, you can survive anything in game with <20k health pool if you play well & react properly to things.
See a Leap? Block.
Someone used gap closer? Dodge roll if stamblade & block+dodge roll forward (through opponent) if another class.
Soul Assault? Block & cloak after 2s or block & drop a Ballista for a free kill
etc etc.
Rune Cage is the only exception that you cannot counter by any means available (apart from building as a tank) as it disables reaction based defenses.
I'm pretty sure I wasn't referring to single attacks. One properly placed cc of any type and you're toast with less than 20k health. And if you can't cc break rune in a 1v1 vs a sorc bad resource management was the cause of your death. In 1vx you were most likely going to die anyways regardless if the sorc was there or not.
its reffering to every medium build lol, going in medium you arnt tankly so everything will you eat if you are noob, if you are experienced you know how and what work and when run awya or from which got out fast and you dont have resource management problem, its just sorc noncounterable combo
medium isnt that tankly as heavy + in heavy you have bonuses to more max health and healing recevied if you didnt know before, thats why any medium armor user is fast melting if you catch him and he is unable to dodge/LoS your attacks
It's very much counterable.usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
nope you are wrong
I mainly play with just 16k health stamblade on noncp withou impene but with well fitted and I have no problem with most of things in pvp
only thing which can instagib me is nonblocked meteor, dk leap (but those are ults, ok) and ofc sorc amges wrath, annyoing as hell, once drop jsut to 20% hp where in many many times I still ave option to survive but against magsorc with this its always instagib with not to mention how his main burst is comming from unblockable and undodgable skills, none of rest classes can achieve burst with time of 1-2 sec with that many skill at once which are also unblockable and undodgable
so no, even when I running much under 20k health I dont getting rammed by everything when I know how and what is working
problem which I (and ofc not only I) have is nocounterable combo which sorc got after unecessary big nerfs to crystal frag where we had option with counter to his combo
Like I said gank build confirmed.
if I was gank build I will have stacked to max weapon damage and stamine isntead of 1.5k magica regen and 2.8k stam regen with only 30k stam and 3.5k weapon dmg buffed
most people jsut invest more to weapon dmg and max stats, I invested more to regens becasue I jsut cant play even with very high stats if I dont have regens and I dont think this could be gank build with thal low stacked damage and invested into high both stat regens at once
EDIT: and btw you never written you even think Im on gank build
Most nightblades I personally know that play the rogue/ganker type run bone pirate mixed with shackle. Nightblades sacrifice very little in burst by running multiple sustain sets or even defense based sets.
I was runnign as ganker until final nerfs as for me with morrowind but its offtopic
and as counterable sorc como..this was counterable until those changes to rune cage + with old crystal frags it was really counterable
can you then please tell me cow to counter unmitigable stun with additional damage if it end/break free + before placed on you curse and flying to you crystal frag and just before hit you getting rune cage while dodge?
can you conter this all damage if you instantly will get this unmitigable cc? always we can also add meteor to this to 100% guaranted kill with rune cage
You basically want to cc the sorc as soon as you see the meteor rune at your feet. Hell you don't even need to do that if you chug an immovable pot. Tons of options to you as a nightblade as far as stun goes. If he's got mines up you basically have free cc immunity on demand.
You can't CC someone who's 36m away spamming *** (newsflash: most builds don't have 36m+ undodgeable/blockable CCs), Immovable has 45s cooldown (unlike sorc burst) & mines don't give CC immunity, they give root immunity (and hit really f'in hard if you're not a tank build) as they're not CCs, they're roots.
Oh, and Bone Pirate+Shackle most definitely isn't a "gank build" like you implied earlier lmao
It's getting harder & harder to take this seriously.
28+5= 33 not 36. The same distance as gap closers. This is only near keeps.
Class doesn't matter on burst cooldown... sorcs are delayed burst anyways and fairly dependant on ult. An ult that cost 200 compared to 70...laughable.
And I thought you could break free after being hit by mines. That was my mistake. Still doesn't take away the relevance of my argument that there are counters to sorc burst.
same distance as gap closers? you forgot gap closers have 22m range and skillis with range better than 28m have additional 8m range in just battlespirit so you have 36m range on simple range skill while gap closer is only 22m, gl with running those few meters where every sec is very important
Good players can cover that distance before you get half of your rotation off.usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
Bull***, you can survive anything in game with <20k health pool if you play well & react properly to things.
See a Leap? Block.
Someone used gap closer? Dodge roll if stamblade & block+dodge roll forward (through opponent) if another class.
Soul Assault? Block & cloak after 2s or block & drop a Ballista for a free kill
etc etc.
Rune Cage is the only exception that you cannot counter by any means available (apart from building as a tank) as it disables reaction based defenses.
I'm pretty sure I wasn't referring to single attacks. One properly placed cc of any type and you're toast with less than 20k health. And if you can't cc break rune in a 1v1 vs a sorc bad resource management was the cause of your death. In 1vx you were most likely going to die anyways regardless if the sorc was there or not.
its reffering to every medium build lol, going in medium you arnt tankly so everything will you eat if you are noob, if you are experienced you know how and what work and when run awya or from which got out fast and you dont have resource management problem, its just sorc noncounterable combo
medium isnt that tankly as heavy + in heavy you have bonuses to more max health and healing recevied if you didnt know before, thats why any medium armor user is fast melting if you catch him and he is unable to dodge/LoS your attacks
It's very much counterable.usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
nope you are wrong
I mainly play with just 16k health stamblade on noncp withou impene but with well fitted and I have no problem with most of things in pvp
only thing which can instagib me is nonblocked meteor, dk leap (but those are ults, ok) and ofc sorc amges wrath, annyoing as hell, once drop jsut to 20% hp where in many many times I still ave option to survive but against magsorc with this its always instagib with not to mention how his main burst is comming from unblockable and undodgable skills, none of rest classes can achieve burst with time of 1-2 sec with that many skill at once which are also unblockable and undodgable
so no, even when I running much under 20k health I dont getting rammed by everything when I know how and what is working
problem which I (and ofc not only I) have is nocounterable combo which sorc got after unecessary big nerfs to crystal frag where we had option with counter to his combo
Like I said gank build confirmed.
if I was gank build I will have stacked to max weapon damage and stamine isntead of 1.5k magica regen and 2.8k stam regen with only 30k stam and 3.5k weapon dmg buffed
most people jsut invest more to weapon dmg and max stats, I invested more to regens becasue I jsut cant play even with very high stats if I dont have regens and I dont think this could be gank build with thal low stacked damage and invested into high both stat regens at once
EDIT: and btw you never written you even think Im on gank build
Most nightblades I personally know that play the rogue/ganker type run bone pirate mixed with shackle. Nightblades sacrifice very little in burst by running multiple sustain sets or even defense based sets.
I was runnign as ganker until final nerfs as for me with morrowind but its offtopic
and as counterable sorc como..this was counterable until those changes to rune cage + with old crystal frags it was really counterable
can you then please tell me cow to counter unmitigable stun with additional damage if it end/break free + before placed on you curse and flying to you crystal frag and just before hit you getting rune cage while dodge?
can you conter this all damage if you instantly will get this unmitigable cc? always we can also add meteor to this to 100% guaranted kill with rune cage
You basically want to cc the sorc as soon as you see the meteor rune at your feet. Hell you don't even need to do that if you chug an immovable pot. Tons of options to you as a nightblade as far as stun goes. If he's got mines up you basically have free cc immunity on demand.
You can't CC someone who's 36m away spamming *** (newsflash: most builds don't have 36m+ undodgeable/blockable CCs), Immovable has 45s cooldown (unlike sorc burst) & mines don't give CC immunity, they give root immunity (and hit really f'in hard if you're not a tank build) as they're not CCs, they're roots.
Oh, and Bone Pirate+Shackle most definitely isn't a "gank build" like you implied earlier lmao
It's getting harder & harder to take this seriously.
28+5= 33 not 36. The same distance as gap closers. This is only near keeps.
Class doesn't matter on burst cooldown... sorcs are delayed burst anyways and fairly dependant on ult. An ult that cost 200 compared to 70...laughable.
And I thought you could break free after being hit by mines. That was my mistake. Still doesn't take away the relevance of my argument that there are counters to sorc burst.
You get +8m range on all skills with 28m range from Battle Spirit. In case of keep fights we'd be talking about a 41m (Reach passive) ability, not 36m.
...and you definitely don't need ultimate to burst someone down with Rune Cage, here's an example:
You just need to land multiple hard hitting abilities at the same time & get a Fury or Implosion proc for the kill now.
In previous patches the burst was very close, but not quite enough (without Meteor) to kill someone in a non-tank build from 100>0.
Meteor is actually the easiest Cage combo to deal with (atleast as a stamblade) since you just cloak when you see the Meteor prompt, block while cloaked & you're good to go. Det pot guarantees a kill for sorc here of course, but even that can somewhat be countered by using their tendency to fight at maximum range against them (det pot has 20m radius).
Ok so if you can handle the combo then the picture you put up must have resulted in your failure to break out of rune. If you run out of resources you're going to die... unless the other guy is a tank.
It has nothing to do with not being able to break out of the rune. When you combo with Rune Cage, you guarantee that abilities land at the same time as the 4-5k damage CC. If someone for example saw a Frag coming and tried to dodge roll it, Rune Cage makes sure that Frag lands & you take full damage from it (and 4-5k from the Cage itself).
The difference is that when someone casts a Meteor on you you're given a clear "cloak now" cue where as other Cage bursts begin with the Cage CC'ing you & disabling your defenses.
That's why the full combo (any combo really that involves Meteor & doesn't involve det pots) is ironically easier to deal with as stamblade.
Frag has a cue that is petty obvious. I mean you had a 8 kill steak before the sorc killed you. I guess people will always complain about something.
Lol. Nightblade is mad because the ez-mode 8-kill streak on his overpowered stealth class wasn’t a 9-kill streak.
Let’s be honest. Nightblade and Sorc need some walking back. But... you guys first. Let’s start with incap, and th SIX seconds of 20% additional damage, not the stun. Let’s look at fear, because it REALLY shouldn’t affect multiple targets. How would you like an AOE rune cage? You probably wouldn’t.10 -
electromagnets✭✭✭Curse -> Rune Cage -> Frag -> Overload LA -> Dead.
Sometimes it’s just Frag -> Overload LA. Necro / Elegant sorc gank builds hit like trucks in no cp. You want easy? There you go.Edited by electromagnets on June 27, 2018 7:16PM2 -
usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
✭usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
Bull***, you can survive anything in game with <20k health pool if you play well & react properly to things.
See a Leap? Block.
Someone used gap closer? Dodge roll if stamblade & block+dodge roll forward (through opponent) if another class.
Soul Assault? Block & cloak after 2s or block & drop a Ballista for a free kill
etc etc.
Rune Cage is the only exception that you cannot counter by any means available (apart from building as a tank) as it disables reaction based defenses.
I'm pretty sure I wasn't referring to single attacks. One properly placed cc of any type and you're toast with less than 20k health. And if you can't cc break rune in a 1v1 vs a sorc bad resource management was the cause of your death. In 1vx you were most likely going to die anyways regardless if the sorc was there or not.
its reffering to every medium build lol, going in medium you arnt tankly so everything will you eat if you are noob, if you are experienced you know how and what work and when run awya or from which got out fast and you dont have resource management problem, its just sorc noncounterable combo
medium isnt that tankly as heavy + in heavy you have bonuses to more max health and healing recevied if you didnt know before, thats why any medium armor user is fast melting if you catch him and he is unable to dodge/LoS your attacks
It's very much counterable.usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
nope you are wrong
I mainly play with just 16k health stamblade on noncp withou impene but with well fitted and I have no problem with most of things in pvp
only thing which can instagib me is nonblocked meteor, dk leap (but those are ults, ok) and ofc sorc amges wrath, annyoing as hell, once drop jsut to 20% hp where in many many times I still ave option to survive but against magsorc with this its always instagib with not to mention how his main burst is comming from unblockable and undodgable skills, none of rest classes can achieve burst with time of 1-2 sec with that many skill at once which are also unblockable and undodgable
so no, even when I running much under 20k health I dont getting rammed by everything when I know how and what is working
problem which I (and ofc not only I) have is nocounterable combo which sorc got after unecessary big nerfs to crystal frag where we had option with counter to his combo
Like I said gank build confirmed.
if I was gank build I will have stacked to max weapon damage and stamine isntead of 1.5k magica regen and 2.8k stam regen with only 30k stam and 3.5k weapon dmg buffed
most people jsut invest more to weapon dmg and max stats, I invested more to regens becasue I jsut cant play even with very high stats if I dont have regens and I dont think this could be gank build with thal low stacked damage and invested into high both stat regens at once
EDIT: and btw you never written you even think Im on gank build
Most nightblades I personally know that play the rogue/ganker type run bone pirate mixed with shackle. Nightblades sacrifice very little in burst by running multiple sustain sets or even defense based sets.
I was runnign as ganker until final nerfs as for me with morrowind but its offtopic
and as counterable sorc como..this was counterable until those changes to rune cage + with old crystal frags it was really counterable
can you then please tell me cow to counter unmitigable stun with additional damage if it end/break free + before placed on you curse and flying to you crystal frag and just before hit you getting rune cage while dodge?
can you conter this all damage if you instantly will get this unmitigable cc? always we can also add meteor to this to 100% guaranted kill with rune cage
You basically want to cc the sorc as soon as you see the meteor rune at your feet. Hell you don't even need to do that if you chug an immovable pot. Tons of options to you as a nightblade as far as stun goes. If he's got mines up you basically have free cc immunity on demand.
You can't CC someone who's 36m away spamming *** (newsflash: most builds don't have 36m+ undodgeable/blockable CCs), Immovable has 45s cooldown (unlike sorc burst) & mines don't give CC immunity, they give root immunity (and hit really f'in hard if you're not a tank build) as they're not CCs, they're roots.
Oh, and Bone Pirate+Shackle most definitely isn't a "gank build" like you implied earlier lmao
It's getting harder & harder to take this seriously.
28+5= 33 not 36. The same distance as gap closers. This is only near keeps.
Class doesn't matter on burst cooldown... sorcs are delayed burst anyways and fairly dependant on ult. An ult that cost 200 compared to 70...laughable.
And I thought you could break free after being hit by mines. That was my mistake. Still doesn't take away the relevance of my argument that there are counters to sorc burst.
same distance as gap closers? you forgot gap closers have 22m range and skillis with range better than 28m have additional 8m range in just battlespirit so you have 36m range on simple range skill while gap closer is only 22m, gl with running those few meters where every sec is very important
Good players can cover that distance before you get half of your rotation off.usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
Bull***, you can survive anything in game with <20k health pool if you play well & react properly to things.
See a Leap? Block.
Someone used gap closer? Dodge roll if stamblade & block+dodge roll forward (through opponent) if another class.
Soul Assault? Block & cloak after 2s or block & drop a Ballista for a free kill
etc etc.
Rune Cage is the only exception that you cannot counter by any means available (apart from building as a tank) as it disables reaction based defenses.
I'm pretty sure I wasn't referring to single attacks. One properly placed cc of any type and you're toast with less than 20k health. And if you can't cc break rune in a 1v1 vs a sorc bad resource management was the cause of your death. In 1vx you were most likely going to die anyways regardless if the sorc was there or not.
its reffering to every medium build lol, going in medium you arnt tankly so everything will you eat if you are noob, if you are experienced you know how and what work and when run awya or from which got out fast and you dont have resource management problem, its just sorc noncounterable combo
medium isnt that tankly as heavy + in heavy you have bonuses to more max health and healing recevied if you didnt know before, thats why any medium armor user is fast melting if you catch him and he is unable to dodge/LoS your attacks
It's very much counterable.usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
nope you are wrong
I mainly play with just 16k health stamblade on noncp withou impene but with well fitted and I have no problem with most of things in pvp
only thing which can instagib me is nonblocked meteor, dk leap (but those are ults, ok) and ofc sorc amges wrath, annyoing as hell, once drop jsut to 20% hp where in many many times I still ave option to survive but against magsorc with this its always instagib with not to mention how his main burst is comming from unblockable and undodgable skills, none of rest classes can achieve burst with time of 1-2 sec with that many skill at once which are also unblockable and undodgable
so no, even when I running much under 20k health I dont getting rammed by everything when I know how and what is working
problem which I (and ofc not only I) have is nocounterable combo which sorc got after unecessary big nerfs to crystal frag where we had option with counter to his combo
Like I said gank build confirmed.
if I was gank build I will have stacked to max weapon damage and stamine isntead of 1.5k magica regen and 2.8k stam regen with only 30k stam and 3.5k weapon dmg buffed
most people jsut invest more to weapon dmg and max stats, I invested more to regens becasue I jsut cant play even with very high stats if I dont have regens and I dont think this could be gank build with thal low stacked damage and invested into high both stat regens at once
EDIT: and btw you never written you even think Im on gank build
Most nightblades I personally know that play the rogue/ganker type run bone pirate mixed with shackle. Nightblades sacrifice very little in burst by running multiple sustain sets or even defense based sets.
I was runnign as ganker until final nerfs as for me with morrowind but its offtopic
and as counterable sorc como..this was counterable until those changes to rune cage + with old crystal frags it was really counterable
can you then please tell me cow to counter unmitigable stun with additional damage if it end/break free + before placed on you curse and flying to you crystal frag and just before hit you getting rune cage while dodge?
can you conter this all damage if you instantly will get this unmitigable cc? always we can also add meteor to this to 100% guaranted kill with rune cage
You basically want to cc the sorc as soon as you see the meteor rune at your feet. Hell you don't even need to do that if you chug an immovable pot. Tons of options to you as a nightblade as far as stun goes. If he's got mines up you basically have free cc immunity on demand.
You can't CC someone who's 36m away spamming *** (newsflash: most builds don't have 36m+ undodgeable/blockable CCs), Immovable has 45s cooldown (unlike sorc burst) & mines don't give CC immunity, they give root immunity (and hit really f'in hard if you're not a tank build) as they're not CCs, they're roots.
Oh, and Bone Pirate+Shackle most definitely isn't a "gank build" like you implied earlier lmao
It's getting harder & harder to take this seriously.
28+5= 33 not 36. The same distance as gap closers. This is only near keeps.
Class doesn't matter on burst cooldown... sorcs are delayed burst anyways and fairly dependant on ult. An ult that cost 200 compared to 70...laughable.
And I thought you could break free after being hit by mines. That was my mistake. Still doesn't take away the relevance of my argument that there are counters to sorc burst.
You get +8m range on all skills with 28m range from Battle Spirit. In case of keep fights we'd be talking about a 41m (Reach passive) ability, not 36m.
...and you definitely don't need ultimate to burst someone down with Rune Cage, here's an example:
You just need to land multiple hard hitting abilities at the same time & get a Fury or Implosion proc for the kill now.
In previous patches the burst was very close, but not quite enough (without Meteor) to kill someone in a non-tank build from 100>0.
Meteor is actually the easiest Cage combo to deal with (atleast as a stamblade) since you just cloak when you see the Meteor prompt, block while cloaked & you're good to go. Det pot guarantees a kill for sorc here of course, but even that can somewhat be countered by using their tendency to fight at maximum range against them (det pot has 20m radius).
Ok so if you can handle the combo then the picture you put up must have resulted in your failure to break out of rune. If you run out of resources you're going to die... unless the other guy is a tank.
It has nothing to do with not being able to break out of the rune. When you combo with Rune Cage, you guarantee that abilities land at the same time as the 4-5k damage CC. If someone for example saw a Frag coming and tried to dodge roll it, Rune Cage makes sure that Frag lands & you take full damage from it (and 4-5k from the Cage itself).
The difference is that when someone casts a Meteor on you you're given a clear "cloak now" cue where as other Cage bursts begin with the Cage CC'ing you & disabling your defenses.
That's why the full combo (any combo really that involves Meteor & doesn't involve det pots) is ironically easier to deal with as stamblade.
Frag has a cue that is petty obvious. I mean you had a 8 kill steak before the sorc killed you. I guess people will always complain about something.
Lol. Nightblade is mad because the ez-mode 8-kill streak on his overpowered stealth class wasn’t a 9-kill streak.
Let’s be honest. Nightblade and Sorc need some walking back. But... you guys first. Let’s start with incap, and th SIX seconds of 20% additional damage, not the stun. Let’s look at fear, because it REALLY shouldn’t affect multiple targets. How would you like an AOE rune cage? You probably wouldn’t.
Pretty much....but you know the forumblades aren't going to be happy until we are all little walking bags of free ap. I say we buff everything to sorc level so nightblades have a challenge for once.Edited by usmguy1234 on June 27, 2018 7:17PMZaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.1 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
Bull***, you can survive anything in game with <20k health pool if you play well & react properly to things.
See a Leap? Block.
Someone used gap closer? Dodge roll if stamblade & block+dodge roll forward (through opponent) if another class.
Soul Assault? Block & cloak after 2s or block & drop a Ballista for a free kill
etc etc.
Rune Cage is the only exception that you cannot counter by any means available (apart from building as a tank) as it disables reaction based defenses.
I'm pretty sure I wasn't referring to single attacks. One properly placed cc of any type and you're toast with less than 20k health. And if you can't cc break rune in a 1v1 vs a sorc bad resource management was the cause of your death. In 1vx you were most likely going to die anyways regardless if the sorc was there or not.
its reffering to every medium build lol, going in medium you arnt tankly so everything will you eat if you are noob, if you are experienced you know how and what work and when run awya or from which got out fast and you dont have resource management problem, its just sorc noncounterable combo
medium isnt that tankly as heavy + in heavy you have bonuses to more max health and healing recevied if you didnt know before, thats why any medium armor user is fast melting if you catch him and he is unable to dodge/LoS your attacks
It's very much counterable.usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
nope you are wrong
I mainly play with just 16k health stamblade on noncp withou impene but with well fitted and I have no problem with most of things in pvp
only thing which can instagib me is nonblocked meteor, dk leap (but those are ults, ok) and ofc sorc amges wrath, annyoing as hell, once drop jsut to 20% hp where in many many times I still ave option to survive but against magsorc with this its always instagib with not to mention how his main burst is comming from unblockable and undodgable skills, none of rest classes can achieve burst with time of 1-2 sec with that many skill at once which are also unblockable and undodgable
so no, even when I running much under 20k health I dont getting rammed by everything when I know how and what is working
problem which I (and ofc not only I) have is nocounterable combo which sorc got after unecessary big nerfs to crystal frag where we had option with counter to his combo
Like I said gank build confirmed.
if I was gank build I will have stacked to max weapon damage and stamine isntead of 1.5k magica regen and 2.8k stam regen with only 30k stam and 3.5k weapon dmg buffed
most people jsut invest more to weapon dmg and max stats, I invested more to regens becasue I jsut cant play even with very high stats if I dont have regens and I dont think this could be gank build with thal low stacked damage and invested into high both stat regens at once
EDIT: and btw you never written you even think Im on gank build
Most nightblades I personally know that play the rogue/ganker type run bone pirate mixed with shackle. Nightblades sacrifice very little in burst by running multiple sustain sets or even defense based sets.
I was runnign as ganker until final nerfs as for me with morrowind but its offtopic
and as counterable sorc como..this was counterable until those changes to rune cage + with old crystal frags it was really counterable
can you then please tell me cow to counter unmitigable stun with additional damage if it end/break free + before placed on you curse and flying to you crystal frag and just before hit you getting rune cage while dodge?
can you conter this all damage if you instantly will get this unmitigable cc? always we can also add meteor to this to 100% guaranted kill with rune cage
You basically want to cc the sorc as soon as you see the meteor rune at your feet. Hell you don't even need to do that if you chug an immovable pot. Tons of options to you as a nightblade as far as stun goes. If he's got mines up you basically have free cc immunity on demand.
You can't CC someone who's 36m away spamming *** (newsflash: most builds don't have 36m+ undodgeable/blockable CCs), Immovable has 45s cooldown (unlike sorc burst) & mines don't give CC immunity, they give root immunity (and hit really f'in hard if you're not a tank build) as they're not CCs, they're roots.
Oh, and Bone Pirate+Shackle most definitely isn't a "gank build" like you implied earlier lmao
It's getting harder & harder to take this seriously.
28+5= 33 not 36. The same distance as gap closers. This is only near keeps.
Class doesn't matter on burst cooldown... sorcs are delayed burst anyways and fairly dependant on ult. An ult that cost 200 compared to 70...laughable.
And I thought you could break free after being hit by mines. That was my mistake. Still doesn't take away the relevance of my argument that there are counters to sorc burst.
same distance as gap closers? you forgot gap closers have 22m range and skillis with range better than 28m have additional 8m range in just battlespirit so you have 36m range on simple range skill while gap closer is only 22m, gl with running those few meters where every sec is very important
Good players can cover that distance before you get half of your rotation off.usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
Bull***, you can survive anything in game with <20k health pool if you play well & react properly to things.
See a Leap? Block.
Someone used gap closer? Dodge roll if stamblade & block+dodge roll forward (through opponent) if another class.
Soul Assault? Block & cloak after 2s or block & drop a Ballista for a free kill
etc etc.
Rune Cage is the only exception that you cannot counter by any means available (apart from building as a tank) as it disables reaction based defenses.
I'm pretty sure I wasn't referring to single attacks. One properly placed cc of any type and you're toast with less than 20k health. And if you can't cc break rune in a 1v1 vs a sorc bad resource management was the cause of your death. In 1vx you were most likely going to die anyways regardless if the sorc was there or not.
its reffering to every medium build lol, going in medium you arnt tankly so everything will you eat if you are noob, if you are experienced you know how and what work and when run awya or from which got out fast and you dont have resource management problem, its just sorc noncounterable combo
medium isnt that tankly as heavy + in heavy you have bonuses to more max health and healing recevied if you didnt know before, thats why any medium armor user is fast melting if you catch him and he is unable to dodge/LoS your attacks
It's very much counterable.usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
nope you are wrong
I mainly play with just 16k health stamblade on noncp withou impene but with well fitted and I have no problem with most of things in pvp
only thing which can instagib me is nonblocked meteor, dk leap (but those are ults, ok) and ofc sorc amges wrath, annyoing as hell, once drop jsut to 20% hp where in many many times I still ave option to survive but against magsorc with this its always instagib with not to mention how his main burst is comming from unblockable and undodgable skills, none of rest classes can achieve burst with time of 1-2 sec with that many skill at once which are also unblockable and undodgable
so no, even when I running much under 20k health I dont getting rammed by everything when I know how and what is working
problem which I (and ofc not only I) have is nocounterable combo which sorc got after unecessary big nerfs to crystal frag where we had option with counter to his combo
Like I said gank build confirmed.
if I was gank build I will have stacked to max weapon damage and stamine isntead of 1.5k magica regen and 2.8k stam regen with only 30k stam and 3.5k weapon dmg buffed
most people jsut invest more to weapon dmg and max stats, I invested more to regens becasue I jsut cant play even with very high stats if I dont have regens and I dont think this could be gank build with thal low stacked damage and invested into high both stat regens at once
EDIT: and btw you never written you even think Im on gank build
Most nightblades I personally know that play the rogue/ganker type run bone pirate mixed with shackle. Nightblades sacrifice very little in burst by running multiple sustain sets or even defense based sets.
I was runnign as ganker until final nerfs as for me with morrowind but its offtopic
and as counterable sorc como..this was counterable until those changes to rune cage + with old crystal frags it was really counterable
can you then please tell me cow to counter unmitigable stun with additional damage if it end/break free + before placed on you curse and flying to you crystal frag and just before hit you getting rune cage while dodge?
can you conter this all damage if you instantly will get this unmitigable cc? always we can also add meteor to this to 100% guaranted kill with rune cage
You basically want to cc the sorc as soon as you see the meteor rune at your feet. Hell you don't even need to do that if you chug an immovable pot. Tons of options to you as a nightblade as far as stun goes. If he's got mines up you basically have free cc immunity on demand.
You can't CC someone who's 36m away spamming *** (newsflash: most builds don't have 36m+ undodgeable/blockable CCs), Immovable has 45s cooldown (unlike sorc burst) & mines don't give CC immunity, they give root immunity (and hit really f'in hard if you're not a tank build) as they're not CCs, they're roots.
Oh, and Bone Pirate+Shackle most definitely isn't a "gank build" like you implied earlier lmao
It's getting harder & harder to take this seriously.
28+5= 33 not 36. The same distance as gap closers. This is only near keeps.
Class doesn't matter on burst cooldown... sorcs are delayed burst anyways and fairly dependant on ult. An ult that cost 200 compared to 70...laughable.
And I thought you could break free after being hit by mines. That was my mistake. Still doesn't take away the relevance of my argument that there are counters to sorc burst.
You get +8m range on all skills with 28m range from Battle Spirit. In case of keep fights we'd be talking about a 41m (Reach passive) ability, not 36m.
...and you definitely don't need ultimate to burst someone down with Rune Cage, here's an example:
You just need to land multiple hard hitting abilities at the same time & get a Fury or Implosion proc for the kill now.
In previous patches the burst was very close, but not quite enough (without Meteor) to kill someone in a non-tank build from 100>0.
Meteor is actually the easiest Cage combo to deal with (atleast as a stamblade) since you just cloak when you see the Meteor prompt, block while cloaked & you're good to go. Det pot guarantees a kill for sorc here of course, but even that can somewhat be countered by using their tendency to fight at maximum range against them (det pot has 20m radius).
Ok so if you can handle the combo then the picture you put up must have resulted in your failure to break out of rune. If you run out of resources you're going to die... unless the other guy is a tank.
It has nothing to do with not being able to break out of the rune. When you combo with Rune Cage, you guarantee that abilities land at the same time as the 4-5k damage CC. If someone for example saw a Frag coming and tried to dodge roll it, Rune Cage makes sure that Frag lands & you take full damage from it (and 4-5k from the Cage itself).
The difference is that when someone casts a Meteor on you you're given a clear "cloak now" cue where as other Cage bursts begin with the Cage CC'ing you & disabling your defenses.
That's why the full combo (any combo really that involves Meteor & doesn't involve det pots) is ironically easier to deal with as stamblade.
Frag has a cue that is petty obvious. I mean you had a 8 kill steak before the sorc killed you. I guess people will always complain about something.
Lol. Nightblade is mad because the ez-mode 8-kill streak on his overpowered stealth class wasn’t a 9-kill streak.
Let’s be honest. Nightblade and Sorc need some walking back. But... you guys first. Let’s start with incap, and th SIX seconds of 20% additional damage, not the stun. Let’s look at fear, because it REALLY shouldn’t affect multiple targets. How would you like an AOE rune cage? You probably wouldn’t.
Pretty much....but you know the forumblades aren't going to be happy until we are all little walking bags of free ap. I say we buff everything to sorc level so nightblades have a challenge for once.
A lot of nightblade players have been walking around with skill-less cheesy BS forever. Fact, they have the strongest and best designed class in the game: The best passives, the best ultimate, the best defense, and the best skills.
Now ZOS hands Sorc a god tier level cheese skill, and they all make a startling discovery.
THEY ARE NOT AS ‘GOOD’ AS THEY THOUGHT.
Thus, the forum hate. Just recognize that this game is fundamentally broken. Garbage sets. Broken procs. God-mode classes. Bleed builds. Gank builds. Whatever. Just have fun with the mess, or go play something better. Stop screaming about people needing ‘skill’ to defeat your Uber dodge roll cloak build - because rolling your face on two buttons isn’t hard. Hitting you shouldn’t be impossible.Edited by Minalan on June 27, 2018 7:27PM6 -
usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
✭usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
Bull***, you can survive anything in game with <20k health pool if you play well & react properly to things.
See a Leap? Block.
Someone used gap closer? Dodge roll if stamblade & block+dodge roll forward (through opponent) if another class.
Soul Assault? Block & cloak after 2s or block & drop a Ballista for a free kill
etc etc.
Rune Cage is the only exception that you cannot counter by any means available (apart from building as a tank) as it disables reaction based defenses.
I'm pretty sure I wasn't referring to single attacks. One properly placed cc of any type and you're toast with less than 20k health. And if you can't cc break rune in a 1v1 vs a sorc bad resource management was the cause of your death. In 1vx you were most likely going to die anyways regardless if the sorc was there or not.
its reffering to every medium build lol, going in medium you arnt tankly so everything will you eat if you are noob, if you are experienced you know how and what work and when run awya or from which got out fast and you dont have resource management problem, its just sorc noncounterable combo
medium isnt that tankly as heavy + in heavy you have bonuses to more max health and healing recevied if you didnt know before, thats why any medium armor user is fast melting if you catch him and he is unable to dodge/LoS your attacks
It's very much counterable.usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
nope you are wrong
I mainly play with just 16k health stamblade on noncp withou impene but with well fitted and I have no problem with most of things in pvp
only thing which can instagib me is nonblocked meteor, dk leap (but those are ults, ok) and ofc sorc amges wrath, annyoing as hell, once drop jsut to 20% hp where in many many times I still ave option to survive but against magsorc with this its always instagib with not to mention how his main burst is comming from unblockable and undodgable skills, none of rest classes can achieve burst with time of 1-2 sec with that many skill at once which are also unblockable and undodgable
so no, even when I running much under 20k health I dont getting rammed by everything when I know how and what is working
problem which I (and ofc not only I) have is nocounterable combo which sorc got after unecessary big nerfs to crystal frag where we had option with counter to his combo
Like I said gank build confirmed.
if I was gank build I will have stacked to max weapon damage and stamine isntead of 1.5k magica regen and 2.8k stam regen with only 30k stam and 3.5k weapon dmg buffed
most people jsut invest more to weapon dmg and max stats, I invested more to regens becasue I jsut cant play even with very high stats if I dont have regens and I dont think this could be gank build with thal low stacked damage and invested into high both stat regens at once
EDIT: and btw you never written you even think Im on gank build
Most nightblades I personally know that play the rogue/ganker type run bone pirate mixed with shackle. Nightblades sacrifice very little in burst by running multiple sustain sets or even defense based sets.
I was runnign as ganker until final nerfs as for me with morrowind but its offtopic
and as counterable sorc como..this was counterable until those changes to rune cage + with old crystal frags it was really counterable
can you then please tell me cow to counter unmitigable stun with additional damage if it end/break free + before placed on you curse and flying to you crystal frag and just before hit you getting rune cage while dodge?
can you conter this all damage if you instantly will get this unmitigable cc? always we can also add meteor to this to 100% guaranted kill with rune cage
You basically want to cc the sorc as soon as you see the meteor rune at your feet. Hell you don't even need to do that if you chug an immovable pot. Tons of options to you as a nightblade as far as stun goes. If he's got mines up you basically have free cc immunity on demand.
You can't CC someone who's 36m away spamming *** (newsflash: most builds don't have 36m+ undodgeable/blockable CCs), Immovable has 45s cooldown (unlike sorc burst) & mines don't give CC immunity, they give root immunity (and hit really f'in hard if you're not a tank build) as they're not CCs, they're roots.
Oh, and Bone Pirate+Shackle most definitely isn't a "gank build" like you implied earlier lmao
It's getting harder & harder to take this seriously.
28+5= 33 not 36. The same distance as gap closers. This is only near keeps.
Class doesn't matter on burst cooldown... sorcs are delayed burst anyways and fairly dependant on ult. An ult that cost 200 compared to 70...laughable.
And I thought you could break free after being hit by mines. That was my mistake. Still doesn't take away the relevance of my argument that there are counters to sorc burst.
same distance as gap closers? you forgot gap closers have 22m range and skillis with range better than 28m have additional 8m range in just battlespirit so you have 36m range on simple range skill while gap closer is only 22m, gl with running those few meters where every sec is very important
Good players can cover that distance before you get half of your rotation off.usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
Bull***, you can survive anything in game with <20k health pool if you play well & react properly to things.
See a Leap? Block.
Someone used gap closer? Dodge roll if stamblade & block+dodge roll forward (through opponent) if another class.
Soul Assault? Block & cloak after 2s or block & drop a Ballista for a free kill
etc etc.
Rune Cage is the only exception that you cannot counter by any means available (apart from building as a tank) as it disables reaction based defenses.
I'm pretty sure I wasn't referring to single attacks. One properly placed cc of any type and you're toast with less than 20k health. And if you can't cc break rune in a 1v1 vs a sorc bad resource management was the cause of your death. In 1vx you were most likely going to die anyways regardless if the sorc was there or not.
its reffering to every medium build lol, going in medium you arnt tankly so everything will you eat if you are noob, if you are experienced you know how and what work and when run awya or from which got out fast and you dont have resource management problem, its just sorc noncounterable combo
medium isnt that tankly as heavy + in heavy you have bonuses to more max health and healing recevied if you didnt know before, thats why any medium armor user is fast melting if you catch him and he is unable to dodge/LoS your attacks
It's very much counterable.usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
nope you are wrong
I mainly play with just 16k health stamblade on noncp withou impene but with well fitted and I have no problem with most of things in pvp
only thing which can instagib me is nonblocked meteor, dk leap (but those are ults, ok) and ofc sorc amges wrath, annyoing as hell, once drop jsut to 20% hp where in many many times I still ave option to survive but against magsorc with this its always instagib with not to mention how his main burst is comming from unblockable and undodgable skills, none of rest classes can achieve burst with time of 1-2 sec with that many skill at once which are also unblockable and undodgable
so no, even when I running much under 20k health I dont getting rammed by everything when I know how and what is working
problem which I (and ofc not only I) have is nocounterable combo which sorc got after unecessary big nerfs to crystal frag where we had option with counter to his combo
Like I said gank build confirmed.
if I was gank build I will have stacked to max weapon damage and stamine isntead of 1.5k magica regen and 2.8k stam regen with only 30k stam and 3.5k weapon dmg buffed
most people jsut invest more to weapon dmg and max stats, I invested more to regens becasue I jsut cant play even with very high stats if I dont have regens and I dont think this could be gank build with thal low stacked damage and invested into high both stat regens at once
EDIT: and btw you never written you even think Im on gank build
Most nightblades I personally know that play the rogue/ganker type run bone pirate mixed with shackle. Nightblades sacrifice very little in burst by running multiple sustain sets or even defense based sets.
I was runnign as ganker until final nerfs as for me with morrowind but its offtopic
and as counterable sorc como..this was counterable until those changes to rune cage + with old crystal frags it was really counterable
can you then please tell me cow to counter unmitigable stun with additional damage if it end/break free + before placed on you curse and flying to you crystal frag and just before hit you getting rune cage while dodge?
can you conter this all damage if you instantly will get this unmitigable cc? always we can also add meteor to this to 100% guaranted kill with rune cage
You basically want to cc the sorc as soon as you see the meteor rune at your feet. Hell you don't even need to do that if you chug an immovable pot. Tons of options to you as a nightblade as far as stun goes. If he's got mines up you basically have free cc immunity on demand.
You can't CC someone who's 36m away spamming *** (newsflash: most builds don't have 36m+ undodgeable/blockable CCs), Immovable has 45s cooldown (unlike sorc burst) & mines don't give CC immunity, they give root immunity (and hit really f'in hard if you're not a tank build) as they're not CCs, they're roots.
Oh, and Bone Pirate+Shackle most definitely isn't a "gank build" like you implied earlier lmao
It's getting harder & harder to take this seriously.
28+5= 33 not 36. The same distance as gap closers. This is only near keeps.
Class doesn't matter on burst cooldown... sorcs are delayed burst anyways and fairly dependant on ult. An ult that cost 200 compared to 70...laughable.
And I thought you could break free after being hit by mines. That was my mistake. Still doesn't take away the relevance of my argument that there are counters to sorc burst.
You get +8m range on all skills with 28m range from Battle Spirit. In case of keep fights we'd be talking about a 41m (Reach passive) ability, not 36m.
...and you definitely don't need ultimate to burst someone down with Rune Cage, here's an example:
You just need to land multiple hard hitting abilities at the same time & get a Fury or Implosion proc for the kill now.
In previous patches the burst was very close, but not quite enough (without Meteor) to kill someone in a non-tank build from 100>0.
Meteor is actually the easiest Cage combo to deal with (atleast as a stamblade) since you just cloak when you see the Meteor prompt, block while cloaked & you're good to go. Det pot guarantees a kill for sorc here of course, but even that can somewhat be countered by using their tendency to fight at maximum range against them (det pot has 20m radius).
Ok so if you can handle the combo then the picture you put up must have resulted in your failure to break out of rune. If you run out of resources you're going to die... unless the other guy is a tank.
It has nothing to do with not being able to break out of the rune. When you combo with Rune Cage, you guarantee that abilities land at the same time as the 4-5k damage CC. If someone for example saw a Frag coming and tried to dodge roll it, Rune Cage makes sure that Frag lands & you take full damage from it (and 4-5k from the Cage itself).
The difference is that when someone casts a Meteor on you you're given a clear "cloak now" cue where as other Cage bursts begin with the Cage CC'ing you & disabling your defenses.
That's why the full combo (any combo really that involves Meteor & doesn't involve det pots) is ironically easier to deal with as stamblade.
Frag has a cue that is petty obvious. I mean you had a 8 kill steak before the sorc killed you. I guess people will always complain about something.
Lol. Nightblade is mad because the ez-mode 8-kill streak on his overpowered stealth class wasn’t a 9-kill streak.
Let’s be honest. Nightblade and Sorc need some walking back. But... you guys first. Let’s start with incap, and th SIX seconds of 20% additional damage, not the stun. Let’s look at fear, because it REALLY shouldn’t affect multiple targets. How would you like an AOE rune cage? You probably wouldn’t.
Pretty much....but you know the forumblades aren't going to be happy until we are all little walking bags of free ap. I say we buff everything to sorc level so nightblades have a challenge for once.
A lot of nightblade players have been walking around with skill-less cheesy BS forever. Fact, they have the strongest and best designed class in the game: The best passives, the best ultimate, the best defense, and the best skills.
Now ZOS hands Sorc a god tier level cheese skill, and they all make a startling discovery.
THEY ARE NOT AS ‘GOOD’ AS THEY THOUGHT.
Thus, the forum hate. Just recognize that this game is fundamentally broken. Garbage sets. Broken procs. God-mode classes. Bleed builds. Gank builds. Whatever. Just have fun with the mess, or go play something better. Stop screaming about people needing ‘skill’ to defeat your Uber dodge roll cloak build - because rolling your face on two buttons isn’t hard. Hitting you shouldn’t be impossible.
Well said!Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
Bull***, you can survive anything in game with <20k health pool if you play well & react properly to things.
See a Leap? Block.
Someone used gap closer? Dodge roll if stamblade & block+dodge roll forward (through opponent) if another class.
Soul Assault? Block & cloak after 2s or block & drop a Ballista for a free kill
etc etc.
Rune Cage is the only exception that you cannot counter by any means available (apart from building as a tank) as it disables reaction based defenses.
I'm pretty sure I wasn't referring to single attacks. One properly placed cc of any type and you're toast with less than 20k health. And if you can't cc break rune in a 1v1 vs a sorc bad resource management was the cause of your death. In 1vx you were most likely going to die anyways regardless if the sorc was there or not.
its reffering to every medium build lol, going in medium you arnt tankly so everything will you eat if you are noob, if you are experienced you know how and what work and when run awya or from which got out fast and you dont have resource management problem, its just sorc noncounterable combo
medium isnt that tankly as heavy + in heavy you have bonuses to more max health and healing recevied if you didnt know before, thats why any medium armor user is fast melting if you catch him and he is unable to dodge/LoS your attacks
It's very much counterable.usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
nope you are wrong
I mainly play with just 16k health stamblade on noncp withou impene but with well fitted and I have no problem with most of things in pvp
only thing which can instagib me is nonblocked meteor, dk leap (but those are ults, ok) and ofc sorc amges wrath, annyoing as hell, once drop jsut to 20% hp where in many many times I still ave option to survive but against magsorc with this its always instagib with not to mention how his main burst is comming from unblockable and undodgable skills, none of rest classes can achieve burst with time of 1-2 sec with that many skill at once which are also unblockable and undodgable
so no, even when I running much under 20k health I dont getting rammed by everything when I know how and what is working
problem which I (and ofc not only I) have is nocounterable combo which sorc got after unecessary big nerfs to crystal frag where we had option with counter to his combo
Like I said gank build confirmed.
if I was gank build I will have stacked to max weapon damage and stamine isntead of 1.5k magica regen and 2.8k stam regen with only 30k stam and 3.5k weapon dmg buffed
most people jsut invest more to weapon dmg and max stats, I invested more to regens becasue I jsut cant play even with very high stats if I dont have regens and I dont think this could be gank build with thal low stacked damage and invested into high both stat regens at once
EDIT: and btw you never written you even think Im on gank build
Most nightblades I personally know that play the rogue/ganker type run bone pirate mixed with shackle. Nightblades sacrifice very little in burst by running multiple sustain sets or even defense based sets.
I was runnign as ganker until final nerfs as for me with morrowind but its offtopic
and as counterable sorc como..this was counterable until those changes to rune cage + with old crystal frags it was really counterable
can you then please tell me cow to counter unmitigable stun with additional damage if it end/break free + before placed on you curse and flying to you crystal frag and just before hit you getting rune cage while dodge?
can you conter this all damage if you instantly will get this unmitigable cc? always we can also add meteor to this to 100% guaranted kill with rune cage
You basically want to cc the sorc as soon as you see the meteor rune at your feet. Hell you don't even need to do that if you chug an immovable pot. Tons of options to you as a nightblade as far as stun goes. If he's got mines up you basically have free cc immunity on demand.
You can't CC someone who's 36m away spamming *** (newsflash: most builds don't have 36m+ undodgeable/blockable CCs), Immovable has 45s cooldown (unlike sorc burst) & mines don't give CC immunity, they give root immunity (and hit really f'in hard if you're not a tank build) as they're not CCs, they're roots.
Oh, and Bone Pirate+Shackle most definitely isn't a "gank build" like you implied earlier lmao
It's getting harder & harder to take this seriously.
28+5= 33 not 36. The same distance as gap closers. This is only near keeps.
Class doesn't matter on burst cooldown... sorcs are delayed burst anyways and fairly dependant on ult. An ult that cost 200 compared to 70...laughable.
And I thought you could break free after being hit by mines. That was my mistake. Still doesn't take away the relevance of my argument that there are counters to sorc burst.
same distance as gap closers? you forgot gap closers have 22m range and skillis with range better than 28m have additional 8m range in just battlespirit so you have 36m range on simple range skill while gap closer is only 22m, gl with running those few meters where every sec is very important
Good players can cover that distance before you get half of your rotation off.usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
Bull***, you can survive anything in game with <20k health pool if you play well & react properly to things.
See a Leap? Block.
Someone used gap closer? Dodge roll if stamblade & block+dodge roll forward (through opponent) if another class.
Soul Assault? Block & cloak after 2s or block & drop a Ballista for a free kill
etc etc.
Rune Cage is the only exception that you cannot counter by any means available (apart from building as a tank) as it disables reaction based defenses.
I'm pretty sure I wasn't referring to single attacks. One properly placed cc of any type and you're toast with less than 20k health. And if you can't cc break rune in a 1v1 vs a sorc bad resource management was the cause of your death. In 1vx you were most likely going to die anyways regardless if the sorc was there or not.
its reffering to every medium build lol, going in medium you arnt tankly so everything will you eat if you are noob, if you are experienced you know how and what work and when run awya or from which got out fast and you dont have resource management problem, its just sorc noncounterable combo
medium isnt that tankly as heavy + in heavy you have bonuses to more max health and healing recevied if you didnt know before, thats why any medium armor user is fast melting if you catch him and he is unable to dodge/LoS your attacks
It's very much counterable.usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
nope you are wrong
I mainly play with just 16k health stamblade on noncp withou impene but with well fitted and I have no problem with most of things in pvp
only thing which can instagib me is nonblocked meteor, dk leap (but those are ults, ok) and ofc sorc amges wrath, annyoing as hell, once drop jsut to 20% hp where in many many times I still ave option to survive but against magsorc with this its always instagib with not to mention how his main burst is comming from unblockable and undodgable skills, none of rest classes can achieve burst with time of 1-2 sec with that many skill at once which are also unblockable and undodgable
so no, even when I running much under 20k health I dont getting rammed by everything when I know how and what is working
problem which I (and ofc not only I) have is nocounterable combo which sorc got after unecessary big nerfs to crystal frag where we had option with counter to his combo
Like I said gank build confirmed.
if I was gank build I will have stacked to max weapon damage and stamine isntead of 1.5k magica regen and 2.8k stam regen with only 30k stam and 3.5k weapon dmg buffed
most people jsut invest more to weapon dmg and max stats, I invested more to regens becasue I jsut cant play even with very high stats if I dont have regens and I dont think this could be gank build with thal low stacked damage and invested into high both stat regens at once
EDIT: and btw you never written you even think Im on gank build
Most nightblades I personally know that play the rogue/ganker type run bone pirate mixed with shackle. Nightblades sacrifice very little in burst by running multiple sustain sets or even defense based sets.
I was runnign as ganker until final nerfs as for me with morrowind but its offtopic
and as counterable sorc como..this was counterable until those changes to rune cage + with old crystal frags it was really counterable
can you then please tell me cow to counter unmitigable stun with additional damage if it end/break free + before placed on you curse and flying to you crystal frag and just before hit you getting rune cage while dodge?
can you conter this all damage if you instantly will get this unmitigable cc? always we can also add meteor to this to 100% guaranted kill with rune cage
You basically want to cc the sorc as soon as you see the meteor rune at your feet. Hell you don't even need to do that if you chug an immovable pot. Tons of options to you as a nightblade as far as stun goes. If he's got mines up you basically have free cc immunity on demand.
You can't CC someone who's 36m away spamming *** (newsflash: most builds don't have 36m+ undodgeable/blockable CCs), Immovable has 45s cooldown (unlike sorc burst) & mines don't give CC immunity, they give root immunity (and hit really f'in hard if you're not a tank build) as they're not CCs, they're roots.
Oh, and Bone Pirate+Shackle most definitely isn't a "gank build" like you implied earlier lmao
It's getting harder & harder to take this seriously.
28+5= 33 not 36. The same distance as gap closers. This is only near keeps.
Class doesn't matter on burst cooldown... sorcs are delayed burst anyways and fairly dependant on ult. An ult that cost 200 compared to 70...laughable.
And I thought you could break free after being hit by mines. That was my mistake. Still doesn't take away the relevance of my argument that there are counters to sorc burst.
You get +8m range on all skills with 28m range from Battle Spirit. In case of keep fights we'd be talking about a 41m (Reach passive) ability, not 36m.
...and you definitely don't need ultimate to burst someone down with Rune Cage, here's an example:
You just need to land multiple hard hitting abilities at the same time & get a Fury or Implosion proc for the kill now.
In previous patches the burst was very close, but not quite enough (without Meteor) to kill someone in a non-tank build from 100>0.
Meteor is actually the easiest Cage combo to deal with (atleast as a stamblade) since you just cloak when you see the Meteor prompt, block while cloaked & you're good to go. Det pot guarantees a kill for sorc here of course, but even that can somewhat be countered by using their tendency to fight at maximum range against them (det pot has 20m radius).
Ok so if you can handle the combo then the picture you put up must have resulted in your failure to break out of rune. If you run out of resources you're going to die... unless the other guy is a tank.
It has nothing to do with not being able to break out of the rune. When you combo with Rune Cage, you guarantee that abilities land at the same time as the 4-5k damage CC. If someone for example saw a Frag coming and tried to dodge roll it, Rune Cage makes sure that Frag lands & you take full damage from it (and 4-5k from the Cage itself).
The difference is that when someone casts a Meteor on you you're given a clear "cloak now" cue where as other Cage bursts begin with the Cage CC'ing you & disabling your defenses.
That's why the full combo (any combo really that involves Meteor & doesn't involve det pots) is ironically easier to deal with as stamblade.
Frag has a cue that is petty obvious. I mean you had a 8 kill steak before the sorc killed you. I guess people will always complain about something.
Lol. Nightblade is mad because the ez-mode 8-kill streak on his overpowered stealth class wasn’t a 9-kill streak.
Let’s be honest. Nightblade and Sorc need some walking back. But... you guys first. Let’s start with incap, and th SIX seconds of 20% additional damage, not the stun. Let’s look at fear, because it REALLY shouldn’t affect multiple targets. How would you like an AOE rune cage? You probably wouldn’t.
By all means, let's. Incap is another big problem - but it is the stun portion that is problematic and makes burst combos too easy to perform on melee stamblades. Take it from someone who has played the class since before Incap (or Surprise Attack) even existed as stamina abilities.
The +20% damage (and Defile) for 6 seconds is actually helpful against targets it needs to help against: tank meta builds.
If Incap stunned only targets above your health pool (like it used to long time ago) you'd have a situation where a NB essentially loses 1 GCD dealing no damage (Fear) or has to land Surprise Attack from cloak for the CC portion of the burst.
That'd make it a lot more difficult to play NB, which imho wouldn't be a bad thing.
Luckily Incap overperforming was already mentioned to the developers:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/418184/class-reps-meeting-notes-june-7/p1
Fear though... it'd be like AoE Rune Cage if it had 10k tooltip & 36m range. At the moment it deals no damage, which is why many stamblades don't even slot it as it results in tempo loss when you're trying to burst someone down (you waste a GCD dealing no damage). Why use fear when you can stun with Incap instead & follow up with Assassin's Will/Scourge?
It's only good as "stam drain" vs permablockers (yeah, gl actually running them out of stam, atleast in 1v1).Edited by DDuke on June 27, 2018 7:35PM4 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
Bull***, you can survive anything in game with <20k health pool if you play well & react properly to things.
See a Leap? Block.
Someone used gap closer? Dodge roll if stamblade & block+dodge roll forward (through opponent) if another class.
Soul Assault? Block & cloak after 2s or block & drop a Ballista for a free kill
etc etc.
Rune Cage is the only exception that you cannot counter by any means available (apart from building as a tank) as it disables reaction based defenses.
I'm pretty sure I wasn't referring to single attacks. One properly placed cc of any type and you're toast with less than 20k health. And if you can't cc break rune in a 1v1 vs a sorc bad resource management was the cause of your death. In 1vx you were most likely going to die anyways regardless if the sorc was there or not.
its reffering to every medium build lol, going in medium you arnt tankly so everything will you eat if you are noob, if you are experienced you know how and what work and when run awya or from which got out fast and you dont have resource management problem, its just sorc noncounterable combo
medium isnt that tankly as heavy + in heavy you have bonuses to more max health and healing recevied if you didnt know before, thats why any medium armor user is fast melting if you catch him and he is unable to dodge/LoS your attacks
It's very much counterable.usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
nope you are wrong
I mainly play with just 16k health stamblade on noncp withou impene but with well fitted and I have no problem with most of things in pvp
only thing which can instagib me is nonblocked meteor, dk leap (but those are ults, ok) and ofc sorc amges wrath, annyoing as hell, once drop jsut to 20% hp where in many many times I still ave option to survive but against magsorc with this its always instagib with not to mention how his main burst is comming from unblockable and undodgable skills, none of rest classes can achieve burst with time of 1-2 sec with that many skill at once which are also unblockable and undodgable
so no, even when I running much under 20k health I dont getting rammed by everything when I know how and what is working
problem which I (and ofc not only I) have is nocounterable combo which sorc got after unecessary big nerfs to crystal frag where we had option with counter to his combo
Like I said gank build confirmed.
if I was gank build I will have stacked to max weapon damage and stamine isntead of 1.5k magica regen and 2.8k stam regen with only 30k stam and 3.5k weapon dmg buffed
most people jsut invest more to weapon dmg and max stats, I invested more to regens becasue I jsut cant play even with very high stats if I dont have regens and I dont think this could be gank build with thal low stacked damage and invested into high both stat regens at once
EDIT: and btw you never written you even think Im on gank build
Most nightblades I personally know that play the rogue/ganker type run bone pirate mixed with shackle. Nightblades sacrifice very little in burst by running multiple sustain sets or even defense based sets.
I was runnign as ganker until final nerfs as for me with morrowind but its offtopic
and as counterable sorc como..this was counterable until those changes to rune cage + with old crystal frags it was really counterable
can you then please tell me cow to counter unmitigable stun with additional damage if it end/break free + before placed on you curse and flying to you crystal frag and just before hit you getting rune cage while dodge?
can you conter this all damage if you instantly will get this unmitigable cc? always we can also add meteor to this to 100% guaranted kill with rune cage
You basically want to cc the sorc as soon as you see the meteor rune at your feet. Hell you don't even need to do that if you chug an immovable pot. Tons of options to you as a nightblade as far as stun goes. If he's got mines up you basically have free cc immunity on demand.
You can't CC someone who's 36m away spamming *** (newsflash: most builds don't have 36m+ undodgeable/blockable CCs), Immovable has 45s cooldown (unlike sorc burst) & mines don't give CC immunity, they give root immunity (and hit really f'in hard if you're not a tank build) as they're not CCs, they're roots.
Oh, and Bone Pirate+Shackle most definitely isn't a "gank build" like you implied earlier lmao
It's getting harder & harder to take this seriously.
28+5= 33 not 36. The same distance as gap closers. This is only near keeps.
Class doesn't matter on burst cooldown... sorcs are delayed burst anyways and fairly dependant on ult. An ult that cost 200 compared to 70...laughable.
And I thought you could break free after being hit by mines. That was my mistake. Still doesn't take away the relevance of my argument that there are counters to sorc burst.
same distance as gap closers? you forgot gap closers have 22m range and skillis with range better than 28m have additional 8m range in just battlespirit so you have 36m range on simple range skill while gap closer is only 22m, gl with running those few meters where every sec is very important
Good players can cover that distance before you get half of your rotation off.usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
Bull***, you can survive anything in game with <20k health pool if you play well & react properly to things.
See a Leap? Block.
Someone used gap closer? Dodge roll if stamblade & block+dodge roll forward (through opponent) if another class.
Soul Assault? Block & cloak after 2s or block & drop a Ballista for a free kill
etc etc.
Rune Cage is the only exception that you cannot counter by any means available (apart from building as a tank) as it disables reaction based defenses.
I'm pretty sure I wasn't referring to single attacks. One properly placed cc of any type and you're toast with less than 20k health. And if you can't cc break rune in a 1v1 vs a sorc bad resource management was the cause of your death. In 1vx you were most likely going to die anyways regardless if the sorc was there or not.
its reffering to every medium build lol, going in medium you arnt tankly so everything will you eat if you are noob, if you are experienced you know how and what work and when run awya or from which got out fast and you dont have resource management problem, its just sorc noncounterable combo
medium isnt that tankly as heavy + in heavy you have bonuses to more max health and healing recevied if you didnt know before, thats why any medium armor user is fast melting if you catch him and he is unable to dodge/LoS your attacks
It's very much counterable.usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
nope you are wrong
I mainly play with just 16k health stamblade on noncp withou impene but with well fitted and I have no problem with most of things in pvp
only thing which can instagib me is nonblocked meteor, dk leap (but those are ults, ok) and ofc sorc amges wrath, annyoing as hell, once drop jsut to 20% hp where in many many times I still ave option to survive but against magsorc with this its always instagib with not to mention how his main burst is comming from unblockable and undodgable skills, none of rest classes can achieve burst with time of 1-2 sec with that many skill at once which are also unblockable and undodgable
so no, even when I running much under 20k health I dont getting rammed by everything when I know how and what is working
problem which I (and ofc not only I) have is nocounterable combo which sorc got after unecessary big nerfs to crystal frag where we had option with counter to his combo
Like I said gank build confirmed.
if I was gank build I will have stacked to max weapon damage and stamine isntead of 1.5k magica regen and 2.8k stam regen with only 30k stam and 3.5k weapon dmg buffed
most people jsut invest more to weapon dmg and max stats, I invested more to regens becasue I jsut cant play even with very high stats if I dont have regens and I dont think this could be gank build with thal low stacked damage and invested into high both stat regens at once
EDIT: and btw you never written you even think Im on gank build
Most nightblades I personally know that play the rogue/ganker type run bone pirate mixed with shackle. Nightblades sacrifice very little in burst by running multiple sustain sets or even defense based sets.
I was runnign as ganker until final nerfs as for me with morrowind but its offtopic
and as counterable sorc como..this was counterable until those changes to rune cage + with old crystal frags it was really counterable
can you then please tell me cow to counter unmitigable stun with additional damage if it end/break free + before placed on you curse and flying to you crystal frag and just before hit you getting rune cage while dodge?
can you conter this all damage if you instantly will get this unmitigable cc? always we can also add meteor to this to 100% guaranted kill with rune cage
You basically want to cc the sorc as soon as you see the meteor rune at your feet. Hell you don't even need to do that if you chug an immovable pot. Tons of options to you as a nightblade as far as stun goes. If he's got mines up you basically have free cc immunity on demand.
You can't CC someone who's 36m away spamming *** (newsflash: most builds don't have 36m+ undodgeable/blockable CCs), Immovable has 45s cooldown (unlike sorc burst) & mines don't give CC immunity, they give root immunity (and hit really f'in hard if you're not a tank build) as they're not CCs, they're roots.
Oh, and Bone Pirate+Shackle most definitely isn't a "gank build" like you implied earlier lmao
It's getting harder & harder to take this seriously.
28+5= 33 not 36. The same distance as gap closers. This is only near keeps.
Class doesn't matter on burst cooldown... sorcs are delayed burst anyways and fairly dependant on ult. An ult that cost 200 compared to 70...laughable.
And I thought you could break free after being hit by mines. That was my mistake. Still doesn't take away the relevance of my argument that there are counters to sorc burst.
You get +8m range on all skills with 28m range from Battle Spirit. In case of keep fights we'd be talking about a 41m (Reach passive) ability, not 36m.
...and you definitely don't need ultimate to burst someone down with Rune Cage, here's an example:
You just need to land multiple hard hitting abilities at the same time & get a Fury or Implosion proc for the kill now.
In previous patches the burst was very close, but not quite enough (without Meteor) to kill someone in a non-tank build from 100>0.
Meteor is actually the easiest Cage combo to deal with (atleast as a stamblade) since you just cloak when you see the Meteor prompt, block while cloaked & you're good to go. Det pot guarantees a kill for sorc here of course, but even that can somewhat be countered by using their tendency to fight at maximum range against them (det pot has 20m radius).
Ok so if you can handle the combo then the picture you put up must have resulted in your failure to break out of rune. If you run out of resources you're going to die... unless the other guy is a tank.
It has nothing to do with not being able to break out of the rune. When you combo with Rune Cage, you guarantee that abilities land at the same time as the 4-5k damage CC. If someone for example saw a Frag coming and tried to dodge roll it, Rune Cage makes sure that Frag lands & you take full damage from it (and 4-5k from the Cage itself).
The difference is that when someone casts a Meteor on you you're given a clear "cloak now" cue where as other Cage bursts begin with the Cage CC'ing you & disabling your defenses.
That's why the full combo (any combo really that involves Meteor & doesn't involve det pots) is ironically easier to deal with as stamblade.
Frag has a cue that is petty obvious. I mean you had a 8 kill steak before the sorc killed you. I guess people will always complain about something.
Lol. Nightblade is mad because the ez-mode 8-kill streak on his overpowered stealth class wasn’t a 9-kill streak.
Let’s be honest. Nightblade and Sorc need some walking back. But... you guys first. Let’s start with incap, and th SIX seconds of 20% additional damage, not the stun. Let’s look at fear, because it REALLY shouldn’t affect multiple targets. How would you like an AOE rune cage? You probably wouldn’t.
By all means, let's. Incap is another big problem - but it is the stun portion that is problematic and makes burst combos too easy to perform on melee stamblades. Take it from someone who has played the class since before Incap (or Surprise Attack) even existed as stamina abilities.
The +20% damage (and Defile) for 6 seconds is actually helpful against targets it needs to help against: tank meta builds.
If Incap stunned only targets above your health pool (like it used to long time ago) you'd have a situation where a NB essentially loses 1 GCD dealing no damage (Fear) or has to land Surprise Attack from cloak for the CC portion of the burst.
That'd make it a lot more difficult to play NB, which imho wouldn't be a bad thing.
Luckily Incap overperforming was already mentioned to the developers:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/418184/class-reps-meeting-notes-june-7/p1
Fear though... it'd be like AoE Rune Cage if it had 10k tooltip & 36m range. At the moment it deals no damage, which is why many stamblades don't even slot it as it results in tempo loss when you're trying to burst someone down (you waste a GCD dealing no damage). Why use fear when you can stun with Incap instead & follow up with Assassin's Will/Scourge?
It's only good as "stam drain" vs permablockers (yeah, gl actually running them out of stam, atleast in 1v1).
You see, you’re only willing to give up the part of incap that’s easily made up for (the stun). It’s not like you can’t teleport strike out of stealth and incap. Or fear and incap.
The issue with incap is the low cost, it’s spammable every 3-4 seconds, and the defile/damage increase.
We know cage is probably getting the shaft at some point, either the range (making it worse than fear or fossil) or the damage (which, we never asked for). If they make it dodgeable or blockable there will be no use for it anymore, we’ll just use destructive reach. Better damage, smoother, faster, and spammable whether someone is using immovable or not.
If they take the damage off cage, then we need it back somewhere else, preferably back on frags. Right now crystal fragments is like the slow and dumber cousin of assassins will. - you see nightblade is just BETTER than Sorc in every way. You can see why we’re so disgusted with the forumblades here crying about our one skill.Edited by Minalan on June 27, 2018 7:46PM4 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
Bull***, you can survive anything in game with <20k health pool if you play well & react properly to things.
See a Leap? Block.
Someone used gap closer? Dodge roll if stamblade & block+dodge roll forward (through opponent) if another class.
Soul Assault? Block & cloak after 2s or block & drop a Ballista for a free kill
etc etc.
Rune Cage is the only exception that you cannot counter by any means available (apart from building as a tank) as it disables reaction based defenses.
I'm pretty sure I wasn't referring to single attacks. One properly placed cc of any type and you're toast with less than 20k health. And if you can't cc break rune in a 1v1 vs a sorc bad resource management was the cause of your death. In 1vx you were most likely going to die anyways regardless if the sorc was there or not.
its reffering to every medium build lol, going in medium you arnt tankly so everything will you eat if you are noob, if you are experienced you know how and what work and when run awya or from which got out fast and you dont have resource management problem, its just sorc noncounterable combo
medium isnt that tankly as heavy + in heavy you have bonuses to more max health and healing recevied if you didnt know before, thats why any medium armor user is fast melting if you catch him and he is unable to dodge/LoS your attacks
It's very much counterable.usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
nope you are wrong
I mainly play with just 16k health stamblade on noncp withou impene but with well fitted and I have no problem with most of things in pvp
only thing which can instagib me is nonblocked meteor, dk leap (but those are ults, ok) and ofc sorc amges wrath, annyoing as hell, once drop jsut to 20% hp where in many many times I still ave option to survive but against magsorc with this its always instagib with not to mention how his main burst is comming from unblockable and undodgable skills, none of rest classes can achieve burst with time of 1-2 sec with that many skill at once which are also unblockable and undodgable
so no, even when I running much under 20k health I dont getting rammed by everything when I know how and what is working
problem which I (and ofc not only I) have is nocounterable combo which sorc got after unecessary big nerfs to crystal frag where we had option with counter to his combo
Like I said gank build confirmed.
if I was gank build I will have stacked to max weapon damage and stamine isntead of 1.5k magica regen and 2.8k stam regen with only 30k stam and 3.5k weapon dmg buffed
most people jsut invest more to weapon dmg and max stats, I invested more to regens becasue I jsut cant play even with very high stats if I dont have regens and I dont think this could be gank build with thal low stacked damage and invested into high both stat regens at once
EDIT: and btw you never written you even think Im on gank build
Most nightblades I personally know that play the rogue/ganker type run bone pirate mixed with shackle. Nightblades sacrifice very little in burst by running multiple sustain sets or even defense based sets.
I was runnign as ganker until final nerfs as for me with morrowind but its offtopic
and as counterable sorc como..this was counterable until those changes to rune cage + with old crystal frags it was really counterable
can you then please tell me cow to counter unmitigable stun with additional damage if it end/break free + before placed on you curse and flying to you crystal frag and just before hit you getting rune cage while dodge?
can you conter this all damage if you instantly will get this unmitigable cc? always we can also add meteor to this to 100% guaranted kill with rune cage
You basically want to cc the sorc as soon as you see the meteor rune at your feet. Hell you don't even need to do that if you chug an immovable pot. Tons of options to you as a nightblade as far as stun goes. If he's got mines up you basically have free cc immunity on demand.
You can't CC someone who's 36m away spamming *** (newsflash: most builds don't have 36m+ undodgeable/blockable CCs), Immovable has 45s cooldown (unlike sorc burst) & mines don't give CC immunity, they give root immunity (and hit really f'in hard if you're not a tank build) as they're not CCs, they're roots.
Oh, and Bone Pirate+Shackle most definitely isn't a "gank build" like you implied earlier lmao
It's getting harder & harder to take this seriously.
28+5= 33 not 36. The same distance as gap closers. This is only near keeps.
Class doesn't matter on burst cooldown... sorcs are delayed burst anyways and fairly dependant on ult. An ult that cost 200 compared to 70...laughable.
And I thought you could break free after being hit by mines. That was my mistake. Still doesn't take away the relevance of my argument that there are counters to sorc burst.
same distance as gap closers? you forgot gap closers have 22m range and skillis with range better than 28m have additional 8m range in just battlespirit so you have 36m range on simple range skill while gap closer is only 22m, gl with running those few meters where every sec is very important
Good players can cover that distance before you get half of your rotation off.usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
Bull***, you can survive anything in game with <20k health pool if you play well & react properly to things.
See a Leap? Block.
Someone used gap closer? Dodge roll if stamblade & block+dodge roll forward (through opponent) if another class.
Soul Assault? Block & cloak after 2s or block & drop a Ballista for a free kill
etc etc.
Rune Cage is the only exception that you cannot counter by any means available (apart from building as a tank) as it disables reaction based defenses.
I'm pretty sure I wasn't referring to single attacks. One properly placed cc of any type and you're toast with less than 20k health. And if you can't cc break rune in a 1v1 vs a sorc bad resource management was the cause of your death. In 1vx you were most likely going to die anyways regardless if the sorc was there or not.
its reffering to every medium build lol, going in medium you arnt tankly so everything will you eat if you are noob, if you are experienced you know how and what work and when run awya or from which got out fast and you dont have resource management problem, its just sorc noncounterable combo
medium isnt that tankly as heavy + in heavy you have bonuses to more max health and healing recevied if you didnt know before, thats why any medium armor user is fast melting if you catch him and he is unable to dodge/LoS your attacks
It's very much counterable.usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
nope you are wrong
I mainly play with just 16k health stamblade on noncp withou impene but with well fitted and I have no problem with most of things in pvp
only thing which can instagib me is nonblocked meteor, dk leap (but those are ults, ok) and ofc sorc amges wrath, annyoing as hell, once drop jsut to 20% hp where in many many times I still ave option to survive but against magsorc with this its always instagib with not to mention how his main burst is comming from unblockable and undodgable skills, none of rest classes can achieve burst with time of 1-2 sec with that many skill at once which are also unblockable and undodgable
so no, even when I running much under 20k health I dont getting rammed by everything when I know how and what is working
problem which I (and ofc not only I) have is nocounterable combo which sorc got after unecessary big nerfs to crystal frag where we had option with counter to his combo
Like I said gank build confirmed.
if I was gank build I will have stacked to max weapon damage and stamine isntead of 1.5k magica regen and 2.8k stam regen with only 30k stam and 3.5k weapon dmg buffed
most people jsut invest more to weapon dmg and max stats, I invested more to regens becasue I jsut cant play even with very high stats if I dont have regens and I dont think this could be gank build with thal low stacked damage and invested into high both stat regens at once
EDIT: and btw you never written you even think Im on gank build
Most nightblades I personally know that play the rogue/ganker type run bone pirate mixed with shackle. Nightblades sacrifice very little in burst by running multiple sustain sets or even defense based sets.
I was runnign as ganker until final nerfs as for me with morrowind but its offtopic
and as counterable sorc como..this was counterable until those changes to rune cage + with old crystal frags it was really counterable
can you then please tell me cow to counter unmitigable stun with additional damage if it end/break free + before placed on you curse and flying to you crystal frag and just before hit you getting rune cage while dodge?
can you conter this all damage if you instantly will get this unmitigable cc? always we can also add meteor to this to 100% guaranted kill with rune cage
You basically want to cc the sorc as soon as you see the meteor rune at your feet. Hell you don't even need to do that if you chug an immovable pot. Tons of options to you as a nightblade as far as stun goes. If he's got mines up you basically have free cc immunity on demand.
You can't CC someone who's 36m away spamming *** (newsflash: most builds don't have 36m+ undodgeable/blockable CCs), Immovable has 45s cooldown (unlike sorc burst) & mines don't give CC immunity, they give root immunity (and hit really f'in hard if you're not a tank build) as they're not CCs, they're roots.
Oh, and Bone Pirate+Shackle most definitely isn't a "gank build" like you implied earlier lmao
It's getting harder & harder to take this seriously.
28+5= 33 not 36. The same distance as gap closers. This is only near keeps.
Class doesn't matter on burst cooldown... sorcs are delayed burst anyways and fairly dependant on ult. An ult that cost 200 compared to 70...laughable.
And I thought you could break free after being hit by mines. That was my mistake. Still doesn't take away the relevance of my argument that there are counters to sorc burst.
You get +8m range on all skills with 28m range from Battle Spirit. In case of keep fights we'd be talking about a 41m (Reach passive) ability, not 36m.
...and you definitely don't need ultimate to burst someone down with Rune Cage, here's an example:
You just need to land multiple hard hitting abilities at the same time & get a Fury or Implosion proc for the kill now.
In previous patches the burst was very close, but not quite enough (without Meteor) to kill someone in a non-tank build from 100>0.
Meteor is actually the easiest Cage combo to deal with (atleast as a stamblade) since you just cloak when you see the Meteor prompt, block while cloaked & you're good to go. Det pot guarantees a kill for sorc here of course, but even that can somewhat be countered by using their tendency to fight at maximum range against them (det pot has 20m radius).
Ok so if you can handle the combo then the picture you put up must have resulted in your failure to break out of rune. If you run out of resources you're going to die... unless the other guy is a tank.
It has nothing to do with not being able to break out of the rune. When you combo with Rune Cage, you guarantee that abilities land at the same time as the 4-5k damage CC. If someone for example saw a Frag coming and tried to dodge roll it, Rune Cage makes sure that Frag lands & you take full damage from it (and 4-5k from the Cage itself).
The difference is that when someone casts a Meteor on you you're given a clear "cloak now" cue where as other Cage bursts begin with the Cage CC'ing you & disabling your defenses.
That's why the full combo (any combo really that involves Meteor & doesn't involve det pots) is ironically easier to deal with as stamblade.
Frag has a cue that is petty obvious. I mean you had a 8 kill steak before the sorc killed you. I guess people will always complain about something.
Lol. Nightblade is mad because the ez-mode 8-kill streak on his overpowered stealth class wasn’t a 9-kill streak.
Let’s be honest. Nightblade and Sorc need some walking back. But... you guys first. Let’s start with incap, and th SIX seconds of 20% additional damage, not the stun. Let’s look at fear, because it REALLY shouldn’t affect multiple targets. How would you like an AOE rune cage? You probably wouldn’t.
By all means, let's. Incap is another big problem - but it is the stun portion that is problematic and makes burst combos too easy to perform on melee stamblades. Take it from someone who has played the class since before Incap (or Surprise Attack) even existed as stamina abilities.
The +20% damage (and Defile) for 6 seconds is actually helpful against targets it needs to help against: tank meta builds.
If Incap stunned only targets above your health pool (like it used to long time ago) you'd have a situation where a NB essentially loses 1 GCD dealing no damage (Fear) or has to land Surprise Attack from cloak for the CC portion of the burst.
That'd make it a lot more difficult to play NB, which imho wouldn't be a bad thing.
Luckily Incap overperforming was already mentioned to the developers:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/418184/class-reps-meeting-notes-june-7/p1
Fear though... it'd be like AoE Rune Cage if it had 10k tooltip & 36m range. At the moment it deals no damage, which is why many stamblades don't even slot it as it results in tempo loss when you're trying to burst someone down (you waste a GCD dealing no damage). Why use fear when you can stun with Incap instead & follow up with Assassin's Will/Scourge?
It's only good as "stam drain" vs permablockers (yeah, gl actually running them out of stam, atleast in 1v1).
You see, you’re only willing to give up the part of incap that’s easily made up for (the stun). It’s not like you can’t teleport strike out of stealth and incap. Or fear and incap.
The issue with incap is the low cost, it’s spammable every 3-4 seconds, and the defile/damage increase.
We know cage is probably getting the shaft at some point, either the range (making it worse than fear or fossil) or the damage (which, we never asked for). If they make it dodgeable or blockable there will be no use for it anymore, we’ll just use destructive reach. Better damage, smoother, faster, and spammable whether someone is using immovable or not.
If they take the damage off cage, then we need it back somewhere else, preferably back on frags. Right now crystal fragments is like the slow and dumber cousin of assassins will.
Who the *** slots Ambush anymore? In Summerset they removed the functionality of Ambush not breaking Cloak and they made the Empower not affect Incap, but rather the next Light Attack instead. That and the various nerfs to damage etc in previous patches... the ability is definitely not worth slotting anymore.
The only good gap closer left in the game is Empowering Chains.
Also, I think you're underestimating the potency of that stun.
There's a reason why Fear>Incap>anything never kills anyone who's not out of stamina: it's a *** "combo" (if you can call it that).
You cast Fear, opponent CC breaks, you Incap & opponent blocks it or dodges it (or starts blocking/dodging/shielding after that if slow on CC break), you certainly won't land Assassin's Scourge after that on anyone who is not a complete potato (I mean not just average or bad, but terribad).
Back in square 1 & opponent has CC immunity, shields up and you wasted your ulti.
The Incap stun though lets you do things like:
Heavy Attack+Incap from stealth->execute
Melee range Assassin's Scourge (harder to notice)->Incap->RIP
Incap->Assassin's Scourge->RIP if slow CC break+dodge
From sorc perspective, if Incap didn't stun (and NB didn't use another CC with it) you'd simply be able to take the damage from it (and nothing else), streak & stun the NB, shield up & you've reset the fight. Gg.
As for Rune Cage... funnily it'd still be better than Reach even if it wasn't undodgeable/blockable simply on the basis that it deals more damage, activates sorc passives and is unreflectable. Oh, and cheaper.
Should tell you all you need to know about how ridiculous it is atm.0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
Bull***, you can survive anything in game with <20k health pool if you play well & react properly to things.
See a Leap? Block.
Someone used gap closer? Dodge roll if stamblade & block+dodge roll forward (through opponent) if another class.
Soul Assault? Block & cloak after 2s or block & drop a Ballista for a free kill
etc etc.
Rune Cage is the only exception that you cannot counter by any means available (apart from building as a tank) as it disables reaction based defenses.
I'm pretty sure I wasn't referring to single attacks. One properly placed cc of any type and you're toast with less than 20k health. And if you can't cc break rune in a 1v1 vs a sorc bad resource management was the cause of your death. In 1vx you were most likely going to die anyways regardless if the sorc was there or not.
its reffering to every medium build lol, going in medium you arnt tankly so everything will you eat if you are noob, if you are experienced you know how and what work and when run awya or from which got out fast and you dont have resource management problem, its just sorc noncounterable combo
medium isnt that tankly as heavy + in heavy you have bonuses to more max health and healing recevied if you didnt know before, thats why any medium armor user is fast melting if you catch him and he is unable to dodge/LoS your attacks
It's very much counterable.usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
nope you are wrong
I mainly play with just 16k health stamblade on noncp withou impene but with well fitted and I have no problem with most of things in pvp
only thing which can instagib me is nonblocked meteor, dk leap (but those are ults, ok) and ofc sorc amges wrath, annyoing as hell, once drop jsut to 20% hp where in many many times I still ave option to survive but against magsorc with this its always instagib with not to mention how his main burst is comming from unblockable and undodgable skills, none of rest classes can achieve burst with time of 1-2 sec with that many skill at once which are also unblockable and undodgable
so no, even when I running much under 20k health I dont getting rammed by everything when I know how and what is working
problem which I (and ofc not only I) have is nocounterable combo which sorc got after unecessary big nerfs to crystal frag where we had option with counter to his combo
Like I said gank build confirmed.
if I was gank build I will have stacked to max weapon damage and stamine isntead of 1.5k magica regen and 2.8k stam regen with only 30k stam and 3.5k weapon dmg buffed
most people jsut invest more to weapon dmg and max stats, I invested more to regens becasue I jsut cant play even with very high stats if I dont have regens and I dont think this could be gank build with thal low stacked damage and invested into high both stat regens at once
EDIT: and btw you never written you even think Im on gank build
Most nightblades I personally know that play the rogue/ganker type run bone pirate mixed with shackle. Nightblades sacrifice very little in burst by running multiple sustain sets or even defense based sets.
I was runnign as ganker until final nerfs as for me with morrowind but its offtopic
and as counterable sorc como..this was counterable until those changes to rune cage + with old crystal frags it was really counterable
can you then please tell me cow to counter unmitigable stun with additional damage if it end/break free + before placed on you curse and flying to you crystal frag and just before hit you getting rune cage while dodge?
can you conter this all damage if you instantly will get this unmitigable cc? always we can also add meteor to this to 100% guaranted kill with rune cage
You basically want to cc the sorc as soon as you see the meteor rune at your feet. Hell you don't even need to do that if you chug an immovable pot. Tons of options to you as a nightblade as far as stun goes. If he's got mines up you basically have free cc immunity on demand.
You can't CC someone who's 36m away spamming *** (newsflash: most builds don't have 36m+ undodgeable/blockable CCs), Immovable has 45s cooldown (unlike sorc burst) & mines don't give CC immunity, they give root immunity (and hit really f'in hard if you're not a tank build) as they're not CCs, they're roots.
Oh, and Bone Pirate+Shackle most definitely isn't a "gank build" like you implied earlier lmao
It's getting harder & harder to take this seriously.
28+5= 33 not 36. The same distance as gap closers. This is only near keeps.
Class doesn't matter on burst cooldown... sorcs are delayed burst anyways and fairly dependant on ult. An ult that cost 200 compared to 70...laughable.
And I thought you could break free after being hit by mines. That was my mistake. Still doesn't take away the relevance of my argument that there are counters to sorc burst.
same distance as gap closers? you forgot gap closers have 22m range and skillis with range better than 28m have additional 8m range in just battlespirit so you have 36m range on simple range skill while gap closer is only 22m, gl with running those few meters where every sec is very important
Good players can cover that distance before you get half of your rotation off.usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
Bull***, you can survive anything in game with <20k health pool if you play well & react properly to things.
See a Leap? Block.
Someone used gap closer? Dodge roll if stamblade & block+dodge roll forward (through opponent) if another class.
Soul Assault? Block & cloak after 2s or block & drop a Ballista for a free kill
etc etc.
Rune Cage is the only exception that you cannot counter by any means available (apart from building as a tank) as it disables reaction based defenses.
I'm pretty sure I wasn't referring to single attacks. One properly placed cc of any type and you're toast with less than 20k health. And if you can't cc break rune in a 1v1 vs a sorc bad resource management was the cause of your death. In 1vx you were most likely going to die anyways regardless if the sorc was there or not.
its reffering to every medium build lol, going in medium you arnt tankly so everything will you eat if you are noob, if you are experienced you know how and what work and when run awya or from which got out fast and you dont have resource management problem, its just sorc noncounterable combo
medium isnt that tankly as heavy + in heavy you have bonuses to more max health and healing recevied if you didnt know before, thats why any medium armor user is fast melting if you catch him and he is unable to dodge/LoS your attacks
It's very much counterable.usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
nope you are wrong
I mainly play with just 16k health stamblade on noncp withou impene but with well fitted and I have no problem with most of things in pvp
only thing which can instagib me is nonblocked meteor, dk leap (but those are ults, ok) and ofc sorc amges wrath, annyoing as hell, once drop jsut to 20% hp where in many many times I still ave option to survive but against magsorc with this its always instagib with not to mention how his main burst is comming from unblockable and undodgable skills, none of rest classes can achieve burst with time of 1-2 sec with that many skill at once which are also unblockable and undodgable
so no, even when I running much under 20k health I dont getting rammed by everything when I know how and what is working
problem which I (and ofc not only I) have is nocounterable combo which sorc got after unecessary big nerfs to crystal frag where we had option with counter to his combo
Like I said gank build confirmed.
if I was gank build I will have stacked to max weapon damage and stamine isntead of 1.5k magica regen and 2.8k stam regen with only 30k stam and 3.5k weapon dmg buffed
most people jsut invest more to weapon dmg and max stats, I invested more to regens becasue I jsut cant play even with very high stats if I dont have regens and I dont think this could be gank build with thal low stacked damage and invested into high both stat regens at once
EDIT: and btw you never written you even think Im on gank build
Most nightblades I personally know that play the rogue/ganker type run bone pirate mixed with shackle. Nightblades sacrifice very little in burst by running multiple sustain sets or even defense based sets.
I was runnign as ganker until final nerfs as for me with morrowind but its offtopic
and as counterable sorc como..this was counterable until those changes to rune cage + with old crystal frags it was really counterable
can you then please tell me cow to counter unmitigable stun with additional damage if it end/break free + before placed on you curse and flying to you crystal frag and just before hit you getting rune cage while dodge?
can you conter this all damage if you instantly will get this unmitigable cc? always we can also add meteor to this to 100% guaranted kill with rune cage
You basically want to cc the sorc as soon as you see the meteor rune at your feet. Hell you don't even need to do that if you chug an immovable pot. Tons of options to you as a nightblade as far as stun goes. If he's got mines up you basically have free cc immunity on demand.
You can't CC someone who's 36m away spamming *** (newsflash: most builds don't have 36m+ undodgeable/blockable CCs), Immovable has 45s cooldown (unlike sorc burst) & mines don't give CC immunity, they give root immunity (and hit really f'in hard if you're not a tank build) as they're not CCs, they're roots.
Oh, and Bone Pirate+Shackle most definitely isn't a "gank build" like you implied earlier lmao
It's getting harder & harder to take this seriously.
28+5= 33 not 36. The same distance as gap closers. This is only near keeps.
Class doesn't matter on burst cooldown... sorcs are delayed burst anyways and fairly dependant on ult. An ult that cost 200 compared to 70...laughable.
And I thought you could break free after being hit by mines. That was my mistake. Still doesn't take away the relevance of my argument that there are counters to sorc burst.
You get +8m range on all skills with 28m range from Battle Spirit. In case of keep fights we'd be talking about a 41m (Reach passive) ability, not 36m.
...and you definitely don't need ultimate to burst someone down with Rune Cage, here's an example:
You just need to land multiple hard hitting abilities at the same time & get a Fury or Implosion proc for the kill now.
In previous patches the burst was very close, but not quite enough (without Meteor) to kill someone in a non-tank build from 100>0.
Meteor is actually the easiest Cage combo to deal with (atleast as a stamblade) since you just cloak when you see the Meteor prompt, block while cloaked & you're good to go. Det pot guarantees a kill for sorc here of course, but even that can somewhat be countered by using their tendency to fight at maximum range against them (det pot has 20m radius).
Ok so if you can handle the combo then the picture you put up must have resulted in your failure to break out of rune. If you run out of resources you're going to die... unless the other guy is a tank.
It has nothing to do with not being able to break out of the rune. When you combo with Rune Cage, you guarantee that abilities land at the same time as the 4-5k damage CC. If someone for example saw a Frag coming and tried to dodge roll it, Rune Cage makes sure that Frag lands & you take full damage from it (and 4-5k from the Cage itself).
The difference is that when someone casts a Meteor on you you're given a clear "cloak now" cue where as other Cage bursts begin with the Cage CC'ing you & disabling your defenses.
That's why the full combo (any combo really that involves Meteor & doesn't involve det pots) is ironically easier to deal with as stamblade.
Frag has a cue that is petty obvious. I mean you had a 8 kill steak before the sorc killed you. I guess people will always complain about something.
Lol. Nightblade is mad because the ez-mode 8-kill streak on his overpowered stealth class wasn’t a 9-kill streak.
Let’s be honest. Nightblade and Sorc need some walking back. But... you guys first. Let’s start with incap, and th SIX seconds of 20% additional damage, not the stun. Let’s look at fear, because it REALLY shouldn’t affect multiple targets. How would you like an AOE rune cage? You probably wouldn’t.
By all means, let's. Incap is another big problem - but it is the stun portion that is problematic and makes burst combos too easy to perform on melee stamblades. Take it from someone who has played the class since before Incap (or Surprise Attack) even existed as stamina abilities.
The +20% damage (and Defile) for 6 seconds is actually helpful against targets it needs to help against: tank meta builds.
If Incap stunned only targets above your health pool (like it used to long time ago) you'd have a situation where a NB essentially loses 1 GCD dealing no damage (Fear) or has to land Surprise Attack from cloak for the CC portion of the burst.
That'd make it a lot more difficult to play NB, which imho wouldn't be a bad thing.
Luckily Incap overperforming was already mentioned to the developers:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/418184/class-reps-meeting-notes-june-7/p1
Fear though... it'd be like AoE Rune Cage if it had 10k tooltip & 36m range. At the moment it deals no damage, which is why many stamblades don't even slot it as it results in tempo loss when you're trying to burst someone down (you waste a GCD dealing no damage). Why use fear when you can stun with Incap instead & follow up with Assassin's Will/Scourge?
It's only good as "stam drain" vs permablockers (yeah, gl actually running them out of stam, atleast in 1v1).
You see, you’re only willing to give up the part of incap that’s easily made up for (the stun). It’s not like you can’t teleport strike out of stealth and incap. Or fear and incap.
The issue with incap is the low cost, it’s spammable every 3-4 seconds, and the defile/damage increase.
We know cage is probably getting the shaft at some point, either the range (making it worse than fear or fossil) or the damage (which, we never asked for). If they make it dodgeable or blockable there will be no use for it anymore, we’ll just use destructive reach. Better damage, smoother, faster, and spammable whether someone is using immovable or not.
If they take the damage off cage, then we need it back somewhere else, preferably back on frags. Right now crystal fragments is like the slow and dumber cousin of assassins will.
Who the *** slots Ambush anymore? In Summerset they removed the functionality of Ambush not breaking Cloak and they made the Empower not affect Incap, but rather the next Light Attack instead. That and the various nerfs to damage etc in previous patches... the ability is definitely not worth slotting anymore.
The only good gap closer left in the game is Empowering Chains.
Also, I think you're underestimating the potency of that stun.
There's a reason why Fear>Incap>anything never kills anyone who's not out of stamina: it's a *** "combo" (if you can call it that).
You cast Fear, opponent CC breaks, you Incap & opponent blocks it or dodges it (or starts blocking/dodging/shielding after that if slow on CC break), you certainly won't land Assassin's Scourge after that on anyone who is not a complete potato (I mean not just average or bad, but terribad).
Back in square 1 & opponent has CC immunity, shields up and you wasted your ulti.
The Incap stun though lets you do things like:
Heavy Attack+Incap from stealth->execute
Melee range Assassin's Scourge (harder to notice)->Incap->RIP
Incap->Assassin's Scourge->RIP if slow CC break+dodge
From sorc perspective, if Incap didn't stun (and NB didn't use another CC with it) you'd simply be able to take the damage from it (and nothing else), streak & stun the NB, shield up & you've reset the fight. Gg.
As for Rune Cage... funnily it'd still be better than Reach even if it wasn't undodgeable/blockable simply on the basis that it deals more damage, activates sorc passives and is unreflectable. Oh, and cheaper.
Should tell you all you need to know about how ridiculous it is atm.
Anyone using reach is sporting a master staff, and no cage doesn’t do more damage than master reach with the DOT. Master reach is cheaper than force pulse FFS.
By the same argument, shouldn’t you just be able to break cage an no one will ever get in a follow up skill? Just stand up and block!
That’s not how it works and you know it. There’s more wrong with incap than just the stun. Low cost, defile, six seconds of empower. One of those needs to go.
Edited by Minalan on June 27, 2018 8:02PM0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
Bull***, you can survive anything in game with <20k health pool if you play well & react properly to things.
See a Leap? Block.
Someone used gap closer? Dodge roll if stamblade & block+dodge roll forward (through opponent) if another class.
Soul Assault? Block & cloak after 2s or block & drop a Ballista for a free kill
etc etc.
Rune Cage is the only exception that you cannot counter by any means available (apart from building as a tank) as it disables reaction based defenses.
I'm pretty sure I wasn't referring to single attacks. One properly placed cc of any type and you're toast with less than 20k health. And if you can't cc break rune in a 1v1 vs a sorc bad resource management was the cause of your death. In 1vx you were most likely going to die anyways regardless if the sorc was there or not.
its reffering to every medium build lol, going in medium you arnt tankly so everything will you eat if you are noob, if you are experienced you know how and what work and when run awya or from which got out fast and you dont have resource management problem, its just sorc noncounterable combo
medium isnt that tankly as heavy + in heavy you have bonuses to more max health and healing recevied if you didnt know before, thats why any medium armor user is fast melting if you catch him and he is unable to dodge/LoS your attacks
It's very much counterable.usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
nope you are wrong
I mainly play with just 16k health stamblade on noncp withou impene but with well fitted and I have no problem with most of things in pvp
only thing which can instagib me is nonblocked meteor, dk leap (but those are ults, ok) and ofc sorc amges wrath, annyoing as hell, once drop jsut to 20% hp where in many many times I still ave option to survive but against magsorc with this its always instagib with not to mention how his main burst is comming from unblockable and undodgable skills, none of rest classes can achieve burst with time of 1-2 sec with that many skill at once which are also unblockable and undodgable
so no, even when I running much under 20k health I dont getting rammed by everything when I know how and what is working
problem which I (and ofc not only I) have is nocounterable combo which sorc got after unecessary big nerfs to crystal frag where we had option with counter to his combo
Like I said gank build confirmed.
if I was gank build I will have stacked to max weapon damage and stamine isntead of 1.5k magica regen and 2.8k stam regen with only 30k stam and 3.5k weapon dmg buffed
most people jsut invest more to weapon dmg and max stats, I invested more to regens becasue I jsut cant play even with very high stats if I dont have regens and I dont think this could be gank build with thal low stacked damage and invested into high both stat regens at once
EDIT: and btw you never written you even think Im on gank build
Most nightblades I personally know that play the rogue/ganker type run bone pirate mixed with shackle. Nightblades sacrifice very little in burst by running multiple sustain sets or even defense based sets.
I was runnign as ganker until final nerfs as for me with morrowind but its offtopic
and as counterable sorc como..this was counterable until those changes to rune cage + with old crystal frags it was really counterable
can you then please tell me cow to counter unmitigable stun with additional damage if it end/break free + before placed on you curse and flying to you crystal frag and just before hit you getting rune cage while dodge?
can you conter this all damage if you instantly will get this unmitigable cc? always we can also add meteor to this to 100% guaranted kill with rune cage
You basically want to cc the sorc as soon as you see the meteor rune at your feet. Hell you don't even need to do that if you chug an immovable pot. Tons of options to you as a nightblade as far as stun goes. If he's got mines up you basically have free cc immunity on demand.
You can't CC someone who's 36m away spamming *** (newsflash: most builds don't have 36m+ undodgeable/blockable CCs), Immovable has 45s cooldown (unlike sorc burst) & mines don't give CC immunity, they give root immunity (and hit really f'in hard if you're not a tank build) as they're not CCs, they're roots.
Oh, and Bone Pirate+Shackle most definitely isn't a "gank build" like you implied earlier lmao
It's getting harder & harder to take this seriously.
28+5= 33 not 36. The same distance as gap closers. This is only near keeps.
Class doesn't matter on burst cooldown... sorcs are delayed burst anyways and fairly dependant on ult. An ult that cost 200 compared to 70...laughable.
And I thought you could break free after being hit by mines. That was my mistake. Still doesn't take away the relevance of my argument that there are counters to sorc burst.
same distance as gap closers? you forgot gap closers have 22m range and skillis with range better than 28m have additional 8m range in just battlespirit so you have 36m range on simple range skill while gap closer is only 22m, gl with running those few meters where every sec is very important
Good players can cover that distance before you get half of your rotation off.usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
Bull***, you can survive anything in game with <20k health pool if you play well & react properly to things.
See a Leap? Block.
Someone used gap closer? Dodge roll if stamblade & block+dodge roll forward (through opponent) if another class.
Soul Assault? Block & cloak after 2s or block & drop a Ballista for a free kill
etc etc.
Rune Cage is the only exception that you cannot counter by any means available (apart from building as a tank) as it disables reaction based defenses.
I'm pretty sure I wasn't referring to single attacks. One properly placed cc of any type and you're toast with less than 20k health. And if you can't cc break rune in a 1v1 vs a sorc bad resource management was the cause of your death. In 1vx you were most likely going to die anyways regardless if the sorc was there or not.
its reffering to every medium build lol, going in medium you arnt tankly so everything will you eat if you are noob, if you are experienced you know how and what work and when run awya or from which got out fast and you dont have resource management problem, its just sorc noncounterable combo
medium isnt that tankly as heavy + in heavy you have bonuses to more max health and healing recevied if you didnt know before, thats why any medium armor user is fast melting if you catch him and he is unable to dodge/LoS your attacks
It's very much counterable.usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
nope you are wrong
I mainly play with just 16k health stamblade on noncp withou impene but with well fitted and I have no problem with most of things in pvp
only thing which can instagib me is nonblocked meteor, dk leap (but those are ults, ok) and ofc sorc amges wrath, annyoing as hell, once drop jsut to 20% hp where in many many times I still ave option to survive but against magsorc with this its always instagib with not to mention how his main burst is comming from unblockable and undodgable skills, none of rest classes can achieve burst with time of 1-2 sec with that many skill at once which are also unblockable and undodgable
so no, even when I running much under 20k health I dont getting rammed by everything when I know how and what is working
problem which I (and ofc not only I) have is nocounterable combo which sorc got after unecessary big nerfs to crystal frag where we had option with counter to his combo
Like I said gank build confirmed.
if I was gank build I will have stacked to max weapon damage and stamine isntead of 1.5k magica regen and 2.8k stam regen with only 30k stam and 3.5k weapon dmg buffed
most people jsut invest more to weapon dmg and max stats, I invested more to regens becasue I jsut cant play even with very high stats if I dont have regens and I dont think this could be gank build with thal low stacked damage and invested into high both stat regens at once
EDIT: and btw you never written you even think Im on gank build
Most nightblades I personally know that play the rogue/ganker type run bone pirate mixed with shackle. Nightblades sacrifice very little in burst by running multiple sustain sets or even defense based sets.
I was runnign as ganker until final nerfs as for me with morrowind but its offtopic
and as counterable sorc como..this was counterable until those changes to rune cage + with old crystal frags it was really counterable
can you then please tell me cow to counter unmitigable stun with additional damage if it end/break free + before placed on you curse and flying to you crystal frag and just before hit you getting rune cage while dodge?
can you conter this all damage if you instantly will get this unmitigable cc? always we can also add meteor to this to 100% guaranted kill with rune cage
You basically want to cc the sorc as soon as you see the meteor rune at your feet. Hell you don't even need to do that if you chug an immovable pot. Tons of options to you as a nightblade as far as stun goes. If he's got mines up you basically have free cc immunity on demand.
You can't CC someone who's 36m away spamming *** (newsflash: most builds don't have 36m+ undodgeable/blockable CCs), Immovable has 45s cooldown (unlike sorc burst) & mines don't give CC immunity, they give root immunity (and hit really f'in hard if you're not a tank build) as they're not CCs, they're roots.
Oh, and Bone Pirate+Shackle most definitely isn't a "gank build" like you implied earlier lmao
It's getting harder & harder to take this seriously.
28+5= 33 not 36. The same distance as gap closers. This is only near keeps.
Class doesn't matter on burst cooldown... sorcs are delayed burst anyways and fairly dependant on ult. An ult that cost 200 compared to 70...laughable.
And I thought you could break free after being hit by mines. That was my mistake. Still doesn't take away the relevance of my argument that there are counters to sorc burst.
You get +8m range on all skills with 28m range from Battle Spirit. In case of keep fights we'd be talking about a 41m (Reach passive) ability, not 36m.
...and you definitely don't need ultimate to burst someone down with Rune Cage, here's an example:
You just need to land multiple hard hitting abilities at the same time & get a Fury or Implosion proc for the kill now.
In previous patches the burst was very close, but not quite enough (without Meteor) to kill someone in a non-tank build from 100>0.
Meteor is actually the easiest Cage combo to deal with (atleast as a stamblade) since you just cloak when you see the Meteor prompt, block while cloaked & you're good to go. Det pot guarantees a kill for sorc here of course, but even that can somewhat be countered by using their tendency to fight at maximum range against them (det pot has 20m radius).
Ok so if you can handle the combo then the picture you put up must have resulted in your failure to break out of rune. If you run out of resources you're going to die... unless the other guy is a tank.
It has nothing to do with not being able to break out of the rune. When you combo with Rune Cage, you guarantee that abilities land at the same time as the 4-5k damage CC. If someone for example saw a Frag coming and tried to dodge roll it, Rune Cage makes sure that Frag lands & you take full damage from it (and 4-5k from the Cage itself).
The difference is that when someone casts a Meteor on you you're given a clear "cloak now" cue where as other Cage bursts begin with the Cage CC'ing you & disabling your defenses.
That's why the full combo (any combo really that involves Meteor & doesn't involve det pots) is ironically easier to deal with as stamblade.
Frag has a cue that is petty obvious. I mean you had a 8 kill steak before the sorc killed you. I guess people will always complain about something.
Lol. Nightblade is mad because the ez-mode 8-kill streak on his overpowered stealth class wasn’t a 9-kill streak.
Let’s be honest. Nightblade and Sorc need some walking back. But... you guys first. Let’s start with incap, and th SIX seconds of 20% additional damage, not the stun. Let’s look at fear, because it REALLY shouldn’t affect multiple targets. How would you like an AOE rune cage? You probably wouldn’t.
By all means, let's. Incap is another big problem - but it is the stun portion that is problematic and makes burst combos too easy to perform on melee stamblades. Take it from someone who has played the class since before Incap (or Surprise Attack) even existed as stamina abilities.
The +20% damage (and Defile) for 6 seconds is actually helpful against targets it needs to help against: tank meta builds.
If Incap stunned only targets above your health pool (like it used to long time ago) you'd have a situation where a NB essentially loses 1 GCD dealing no damage (Fear) or has to land Surprise Attack from cloak for the CC portion of the burst.
That'd make it a lot more difficult to play NB, which imho wouldn't be a bad thing.
Luckily Incap overperforming was already mentioned to the developers:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/418184/class-reps-meeting-notes-june-7/p1
Fear though... it'd be like AoE Rune Cage if it had 10k tooltip & 36m range. At the moment it deals no damage, which is why many stamblades don't even slot it as it results in tempo loss when you're trying to burst someone down (you waste a GCD dealing no damage). Why use fear when you can stun with Incap instead & follow up with Assassin's Will/Scourge?
It's only good as "stam drain" vs permablockers (yeah, gl actually running them out of stam, atleast in 1v1).
You see, you’re only willing to give up the part of incap that’s easily made up for (the stun). It’s not like you can’t teleport strike out of stealth and incap. Or fear and incap.
The issue with incap is the low cost, it’s spammable every 3-4 seconds, and the defile/damage increase.
We know cage is probably getting the shaft at some point, either the range (making it worse than fear or fossil) or the damage (which, we never asked for). If they make it dodgeable or blockable there will be no use for it anymore, we’ll just use destructive reach. Better damage, smoother, faster, and spammable whether someone is using immovable or not.
If they take the damage off cage, then we need it back somewhere else, preferably back on frags. Right now crystal fragments is like the slow and dumber cousin of assassins will.
Who the *** slots Ambush anymore? In Summerset they removed the functionality of Ambush not breaking Cloak and they made the Empower not affect Incap, but rather the next Light Attack instead. That and the various nerfs to damage etc in previous patches... the ability is definitely not worth slotting anymore.
The only good gap closer left in the game is Empowering Chains.
Also, I think you're underestimating the potency of that stun.
There's a reason why Fear>Incap>anything never kills anyone who's not out of stamina: it's a *** "combo" (if you can call it that).
You cast Fear, opponent CC breaks, you Incap & opponent blocks it or dodges it (or starts blocking/dodging/shielding after that if slow on CC break), you certainly won't land Assassin's Scourge after that on anyone who is not a complete potato (I mean not just average or bad, but terribad).
Back in square 1 & opponent has CC immunity, shields up and you wasted your ulti.
The Incap stun though lets you do things like:
Heavy Attack+Incap from stealth->execute
Melee range Assassin's Scourge (harder to notice)->Incap->RIP
Incap->Assassin's Scourge->RIP if slow CC break+dodge
From sorc perspective, if Incap didn't stun (and NB didn't use another CC with it) you'd simply be able to take the damage from it (and nothing else), streak & stun the NB, shield up & you've reset the fight. Gg.
As for Rune Cage... funnily it'd still be better than Reach even if it wasn't undodgeable/blockable simply on the basis that it deals more damage, activates sorc passives and is unreflectable. Oh, and cheaper.
Should tell you all you need to know about how ridiculous it is atm.
Anyone using reach is sporting a master staff, and no cage doesn’t do more damage than master reach with the DOT. Master reach is cheaper than force pulse FFS.
By the same argument, shouldn’t you just be able to break cage an no one will ever get in a follow up skill? Just stand up and block!
That’s not how it works and you know it. There’s more wrong with incap than just the stun. Low cost, defile, six seconds of empower. One of those needs to go.
It's still more direct damage than Master Reach, even with Master's Staff (which limits your set options). In no-CP & even more so in CP.
Master Reach does become the cheaper of the two though.
And no, breaking Cage & breaking Fear aren't the same thing.- You take no damage breaking Fear. You take a *** ton of damage breaking Rune Cage.
- NB has no delayed burst (no POTL, Shalks, Curse etc etc) that you can make unavoidable with Fear. Not unless you slot Trapping Webs from Undaunted or Detonation. First is just a terrible idea & second is a decent one for magblades (but not on the level of Curse, POTL etc). I guess you can combo it with Meteor as magblade, but why would you when you can just Incap stun>Merciless for more damage?
- Fear has no delay like Rune Cage, you can't cast skills after using it & guarantee they land - it is entirely up to the reaction time of the opponent.
In other words: I can't "stand up & block" if I've been hit by all the delayed burst, pre-cast executes & burst abilities like Frags that land guaranteed due to the delay of Rune Cage. In that scenario I'm dead before I get the chance to block or dodge.Edited by DDuke on June 27, 2018 8:28PM2 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭A lot of nightblade players have been walking around with skill-less cheesy BS forever. Fact, they have the strongest and best designed class in the game: The best passives, the best ultimate, the best defense, and the best skills.
Now ZOS hands Sorc a god tier level cheese skill, and they all make a startling discovery.
THEY ARE NOT AS ‘GOOD’ AS THEY THOUGHT.
Thus, the forum hate. Just recognize that this game is fundamentally broken. Garbage sets. Broken procs. God-mode classes. Bleed builds. Gank builds. Whatever. Just have fun with the mess, or go play something better. Stop screaming about people needing ‘skill’ to defeat your Uber dodge roll cloak build - because rolling your face on two buttons isn’t hard. Hitting you shouldn’t be impossible.
how about not cheesy stamblades? they still can be alive but their are less and less because with every next patch with more chees its puting them to bigger and bigger disadvantage if they dont go with cheesLol. Nightblade is mad because the ez-mode 8-kill streak on his overpowered stealth class wasn’t a 9-kill streak.
Let’s be honest. Nightblade and Sorc need some walking back. But... you guys first. Let’s start with incap, and th SIX seconds of 20% additional damage, not the stun. Let’s look at fear, because it REALLY shouldn’t affect multiple targets. How would you like an AOE rune cage? You probably wouldn’t.
fear at all was nerfed with amount of people feared and to compare it affect only 2 targets instead of 1 like rune cage it is to only melee range and dont deal damage and enemy can even run away very fast from caster if he had speedbuff active so sometimes fear can be tricky xD
and incap with 6 seconds of additional 20% damage...so you are saying its to op as for a some cheap ult which is predictable, dodgable etc? its own damage is like surprise attack so we cant even get very high single hit from this ult, its mainly to debuff opponet to get chance get him down
take away this aadditional damage from incap or defile and nobody will use this ult because it wont help with killing people and without these tools non-chees nb will be in big dark ass
or another way ok, take away fear for 2 players, lets it be cc for only 1 player bug give us instead something to help with suriveve to this, something maybe to additional healing or even tanknies? most nb run in medium and they cant hide behind damage shield while they are forced to be in meleee range to kill someone
they should be deadly as they are easy to kill..to easy if you catch one and dont let him atlest go into cloak, its end for him if he cant LoS, nb have high risk and high reward as if you are going to remove cloak from nb then you removing most of his defense and many nb is just defensless without this when they burn their stamina for dodge while you on sorc can be nonsto behind shields and streak (not including here oblivion damage as its not thread for this)0 -
Killset✭✭✭✭
You leave out the fact that sorc damage was buffed three fold with destro staff counting as 2 set pieces, light attack damage being buffed and Rune doing its damage up front. Arguments like “if the 2-4K damage from Rune killed you, you were going to die anyway” are complete and utter BS. That 2-4K hitting in the same GCD is now more than enough to put you in execute which should already be sitting on you like a ticking time bomb.Here’s some insight for you sorc fanboys who don’t know PvP outside your endless shield spam.
QQ rants don't equate to insight.Templars have bad dps compared to other classes, their jabs don’t even land most of the time and literally any player with any form of skill is easily able to dodge and evade the jab spam. All templars are essentially good for is turtling up and block castin BoL which basically makes them into a tank and does no damage. They can hardly kill any good class because they’re so vulnerable on offense you can literally smack a Templar in the face with a burst combo if they’re trying to go in the offensive. Their only form of dps is jabs and PoTL or purifying light combo which is the easiest burst to avoid. If you still cry about magplars being OP you’ve never played a Templar nor do you realize how difficult it is to actually do damage and have decent survivability on one.
Templar is a class that totally shines in a group setting but is very lacking when you run solo. A well played Templar makes a huge difference in a group. A Sorc not so much. You just can't compare the two classes as they function completely different. I'm all for giving Templar their soul back, but that has nothing to do with the OPness of Sorcs.Magsorcs have the easiest burst in the entire game. I don’t want to hear a stupid argument of “hrrr durrr stam haz their combo ez just Dawnbreaker spin 2 win” first off. You can block and dodge a dawnbreaker. You can block spin to win. Crying about DB spin to win combo is a l2p issue same with dying to a perma jab spammer. You just suck.
The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).Now back on the topic of sorcs. Rune cage is an uunblockable, undodgeable cc which has a massive range, relatively cheap cost, does a significant amount of damage, and has the longest stun duration. This has no counter play.
3k+ magicka (depending on LA passives) isn't "relatively cheap". Granted, the skill shouldn't have burst damage, but the rest of its functionality is exactly the same as before Summerset (hint: no one complained about it then).Don’t try and say “get more health” not all builds revolve around having a bunch of health.
I agree on that, but running a low health build is a build decision, and nothing you can complain about. At least that's what Sorcs get told all the time on the topic of Oblivion damage.Don’t try and say “get more stam, cc break”
In cyrodiil with lag already crazy enough as it is. Most of the time it’s not going to register you spamming your trigger buttons to cc break in time before the trash no skill sorc gives you the ez wombo combo burst.
I believe that's the main issue, and it isn't a Sorc specific one. CC is broken fundamentally in the game, and has been with specific CC skills for years (see Mass Hysteria for that). Fixing CC is the solution then.In non CP if you’re on a mag. Chances are you’re going to die pretty easily due to the fact that you have almost no stam, cc breaking takes half of it away, that’s not including having to use stam for blocking roll dodging or sprinting on a mag in non cp. so essentially you’re going to be hit with a full sorc burst and you cannot do a single thing about it.
I'm running with 16k stam on my noCP mSorc. Again, it's a conscious build decision if you run with less in favor of having a larger health and mag pool. If you want to know, a Sorc doesn't survive with 10k stam in noCP either.There’s is no counter play to an undodgeable unblockable cc with huge range. It’s an absolute joke for sorcs. Curse, meteor, rune cage, frags, excecute. Takes no skill and has no counter play. This is isn’t an “l2p” issue. It’s a “sorcs are ignorant af and don’t want their trash no skill builds nerfed or else they’ll cry like the babies they are” issue
Break free and roll dodge. If the 2k to 4k damage Rune Cage does now really kills you, you wouldn't have survived the follow up anyway. The exact same combination was possible before Summerset - without the Rune Cage damage.Please tell me how endless shield stacking and unblockable Undodgeable cc’s are balanced.
A typical Sorc build without pets or Necro/Shadowrend will be around 40k mag in noCP. Sgield stacking isn't endless if you want to go on the offensive too. And again, Sorcs had undodgeable and unblockable CC before Summerset.For those who try and argue saying fear and fossilize is Also unblockable and undodgable. First off. They require you to be in MELEE RANGE. Not to mention DK’s don’t have the damage output a sorc does so they can’t burst you down as fast as a sorc can when you’re fossilized. They also both have shorter stun duration and don’t do stupid amounts of damage. Not to mention you can’t just kill them from 41 meters away like you can on a trash sorc.
Melee range isn't a disadvantage if your class kit is built for melee (DK, stamNB). Only ranged magBlade is somewhat disadvantaged with Mass Hysteria, but they run Reach and/or Cripple anyway. As for magDKs damage output I'm not experienced enough to judge it, but the consensus from class mains seems to be that damage isn't the issue magDK has (although whip being dodgeable hurt them a bit).
40k magic in no cp! How do you endure. I can barely get 30k stamina while still building for all the other things I need to survive the Sorc fest BG’s have become.
Melee isn’t a disadvantage for melee characters If everyone I fought couldn’t damage me until I got within 5 meters of them. Sadly that isn’t the reality of things. The reality of PvP is far different then Sorcs defending their class would have you believe. Arguments like this are comical and anyone who has spent longer than 10 minutes in PvP can see right through it.
The fact that any person can legitimately argue that Sorc is balanced right now boggles my mind. This game needs a lot of changes. They could start with balancing Sorc, nerfing Sloads, nerfing Masters dual wield, nerfing Zaans, nerfing Caluurions, and nerfing the defile CP passive. It would be a good start.
6 -
Vietfox✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Magsorc: Curse - Cage - Frag/Meteor - Fury = DEAD. Right, magsorcs are so difficult to play.1 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »grannas211 wrote: »Wait for the incoming nightblade brigade to comment on "how easy it is to play" a Sorc.
It just boggles my mind when I read stuff like that. The combo isn't that easy to setup compared to DB spin to win or incap surprise attack.
I don't know how anyone with any sense can claim sorcs easier that NB's coming out of cloak to Incap.0 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »My take on Sorcs from a PVP Perspective: yes I sorc a fair amount, but I have played every spec in this game. Currently I mostly PVE on a mageblade and split PVP playtime between mSorc, mDK and Stamden, but sorc is definitely the most.
Sorc is porbably the second most popular character archetype in this game, only behind your DW rouge Legolas type (AKA stamblades). Practically speaking, that means you are going to see a lot of new players that have no idea about how combat works in this game rolling sorcs out of the gate. 4+ years ago, my first toon was a stamblade because i wanted to be Legolas.
Furthermore, they have very straight forward offensive and defensive rotations. If you are getting pressured, you stack 2-3 shields. If not, you try to line 2-3 skills for burst. This makes it an easier class than most to break into PVP. They are also ranged and have a powerful execute, which can make a noobie zergling feel safe and comfortable. The flipside is that shields are a garbage mitigation tool when out numbered, and truly lining up a burst combo to take down very tanky opponents is far more difficult than people would have you believe. In other words, sorcs make great little zerglings and are very good at taking out newer opponents because your burst combo doesnt need to be nearly as tight. The floor is low, but the ceiling for a good player is also very high because shield stacking is not going to save you when you are outnumbered, and sloppy burst combos wont kill anyone that actually knows how to play.
Lastly, the rage is magnified for one simple reason, Mages wrath. The hate for this skill is disproportionaly magnified because of its ability to steal kills in BGs and its frequency in death recaps. The reality, however, is that if mages wrath kills you, you were probably dead anyway.
From a PVE perspective, again, they are easy to learn, but the ceiling is not terribly high. The best players will gravitate towards mageblade, because they are more skill based with more damage potential.
Good post man!2 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
Bull***, you can survive anything in game with <20k health pool if you play well & react properly to things.
See a Leap? Block.
Someone used gap closer? Dodge roll if stamblade & block+dodge roll forward (through opponent) if another class.
Soul Assault? Block & cloak after 2s or block & drop a Ballista for a free kill
etc etc.
Rune Cage is the only exception that you cannot counter by any means available (apart from building as a tank) as it disables reaction based defenses.
I'm pretty sure I wasn't referring to single attacks. One properly placed cc of any type and you're toast with less than 20k health. And if you can't cc break rune in a 1v1 vs a sorc bad resource management was the cause of your death. In 1vx you were most likely going to die anyways regardless if the sorc was there or not.
its reffering to every medium build lol, going in medium you arnt tankly so everything will you eat if you are noob, if you are experienced you know how and what work and when run awya or from which got out fast and you dont have resource management problem, its just sorc noncounterable combo
medium isnt that tankly as heavy + in heavy you have bonuses to more max health and healing recevied if you didnt know before, thats why any medium armor user is fast melting if you catch him and he is unable to dodge/LoS your attacks
It's very much counterable.usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
nope you are wrong
I mainly play with just 16k health stamblade on noncp withou impene but with well fitted and I have no problem with most of things in pvp
only thing which can instagib me is nonblocked meteor, dk leap (but those are ults, ok) and ofc sorc amges wrath, annyoing as hell, once drop jsut to 20% hp where in many many times I still ave option to survive but against magsorc with this its always instagib with not to mention how his main burst is comming from unblockable and undodgable skills, none of rest classes can achieve burst with time of 1-2 sec with that many skill at once which are also unblockable and undodgable
so no, even when I running much under 20k health I dont getting rammed by everything when I know how and what is working
problem which I (and ofc not only I) have is nocounterable combo which sorc got after unecessary big nerfs to crystal frag where we had option with counter to his combo
Like I said gank build confirmed.
if I was gank build I will have stacked to max weapon damage and stamine isntead of 1.5k magica regen and 2.8k stam regen with only 30k stam and 3.5k weapon dmg buffed
most people jsut invest more to weapon dmg and max stats, I invested more to regens becasue I jsut cant play even with very high stats if I dont have regens and I dont think this could be gank build with thal low stacked damage and invested into high both stat regens at once
EDIT: and btw you never written you even think Im on gank build
Most nightblades I personally know that play the rogue/ganker type run bone pirate mixed with shackle. Nightblades sacrifice very little in burst by running multiple sustain sets or even defense based sets.
I was runnign as ganker until final nerfs as for me with morrowind but its offtopic
and as counterable sorc como..this was counterable until those changes to rune cage + with old crystal frags it was really counterable
can you then please tell me cow to counter unmitigable stun with additional damage if it end/break free + before placed on you curse and flying to you crystal frag and just before hit you getting rune cage while dodge?
can you conter this all damage if you instantly will get this unmitigable cc? always we can also add meteor to this to 100% guaranted kill with rune cage
You basically want to cc the sorc as soon as you see the meteor rune at your feet. Hell you don't even need to do that if you chug an immovable pot. Tons of options to you as a nightblade as far as stun goes. If he's got mines up you basically have free cc immunity on demand.
You can't CC someone who's 36m away spamming *** (newsflash: most builds don't have 36m+ undodgeable/blockable CCs), Immovable has 45s cooldown (unlike sorc burst) & mines don't give CC immunity, they give root immunity (and hit really f'in hard if you're not a tank build) as they're not CCs, they're roots.
Oh, and Bone Pirate+Shackle most definitely isn't a "gank build" like you implied earlier lmao
It's getting harder & harder to take this seriously.
28+5= 33 not 36. The same distance as gap closers. This is only near keeps.
Class doesn't matter on burst cooldown... sorcs are delayed burst anyways and fairly dependant on ult. An ult that cost 200 compared to 70...laughable.
And I thought you could break free after being hit by mines. That was my mistake. Still doesn't take away the relevance of my argument that there are counters to sorc burst.
same distance as gap closers? you forgot gap closers have 22m range and skillis with range better than 28m have additional 8m range in just battlespirit so you have 36m range on simple range skill while gap closer is only 22m, gl with running those few meters where every sec is very important
Good players can cover that distance before you get half of your rotation off.usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
Bull***, you can survive anything in game with <20k health pool if you play well & react properly to things.
See a Leap? Block.
Someone used gap closer? Dodge roll if stamblade & block+dodge roll forward (through opponent) if another class.
Soul Assault? Block & cloak after 2s or block & drop a Ballista for a free kill
etc etc.
Rune Cage is the only exception that you cannot counter by any means available (apart from building as a tank) as it disables reaction based defenses.
I'm pretty sure I wasn't referring to single attacks. One properly placed cc of any type and you're toast with less than 20k health. And if you can't cc break rune in a 1v1 vs a sorc bad resource management was the cause of your death. In 1vx you were most likely going to die anyways regardless if the sorc was there or not.
its reffering to every medium build lol, going in medium you arnt tankly so everything will you eat if you are noob, if you are experienced you know how and what work and when run awya or from which got out fast and you dont have resource management problem, its just sorc noncounterable combo
medium isnt that tankly as heavy + in heavy you have bonuses to more max health and healing recevied if you didnt know before, thats why any medium armor user is fast melting if you catch him and he is unable to dodge/LoS your attacks
It's very much counterable.usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
nope you are wrong
I mainly play with just 16k health stamblade on noncp withou impene but with well fitted and I have no problem with most of things in pvp
only thing which can instagib me is nonblocked meteor, dk leap (but those are ults, ok) and ofc sorc amges wrath, annyoing as hell, once drop jsut to 20% hp where in many many times I still ave option to survive but against magsorc with this its always instagib with not to mention how his main burst is comming from unblockable and undodgable skills, none of rest classes can achieve burst with time of 1-2 sec with that many skill at once which are also unblockable and undodgable
so no, even when I running much under 20k health I dont getting rammed by everything when I know how and what is working
problem which I (and ofc not only I) have is nocounterable combo which sorc got after unecessary big nerfs to crystal frag where we had option with counter to his combo
Like I said gank build confirmed.
if I was gank build I will have stacked to max weapon damage and stamine isntead of 1.5k magica regen and 2.8k stam regen with only 30k stam and 3.5k weapon dmg buffed
most people jsut invest more to weapon dmg and max stats, I invested more to regens becasue I jsut cant play even with very high stats if I dont have regens and I dont think this could be gank build with thal low stacked damage and invested into high both stat regens at once
EDIT: and btw you never written you even think Im on gank build
Most nightblades I personally know that play the rogue/ganker type run bone pirate mixed with shackle. Nightblades sacrifice very little in burst by running multiple sustain sets or even defense based sets.
I was runnign as ganker until final nerfs as for me with morrowind but its offtopic
and as counterable sorc como..this was counterable until those changes to rune cage + with old crystal frags it was really counterable
can you then please tell me cow to counter unmitigable stun with additional damage if it end/break free + before placed on you curse and flying to you crystal frag and just before hit you getting rune cage while dodge?
can you conter this all damage if you instantly will get this unmitigable cc? always we can also add meteor to this to 100% guaranted kill with rune cage
You basically want to cc the sorc as soon as you see the meteor rune at your feet. Hell you don't even need to do that if you chug an immovable pot. Tons of options to you as a nightblade as far as stun goes. If he's got mines up you basically have free cc immunity on demand.
You can't CC someone who's 36m away spamming *** (newsflash: most builds don't have 36m+ undodgeable/blockable CCs), Immovable has 45s cooldown (unlike sorc burst) & mines don't give CC immunity, they give root immunity (and hit really f'in hard if you're not a tank build) as they're not CCs, they're roots.
Oh, and Bone Pirate+Shackle most definitely isn't a "gank build" like you implied earlier lmao
It's getting harder & harder to take this seriously.
28+5= 33 not 36. The same distance as gap closers. This is only near keeps.
Class doesn't matter on burst cooldown... sorcs are delayed burst anyways and fairly dependant on ult. An ult that cost 200 compared to 70...laughable.
And I thought you could break free after being hit by mines. That was my mistake. Still doesn't take away the relevance of my argument that there are counters to sorc burst.
You get +8m range on all skills with 28m range from Battle Spirit. In case of keep fights we'd be talking about a 41m (Reach passive) ability, not 36m.
...and you definitely don't need ultimate to burst someone down with Rune Cage, here's an example:
You just need to land multiple hard hitting abilities at the same time & get a Fury or Implosion proc for the kill now.
In previous patches the burst was very close, but not quite enough (without Meteor) to kill someone in a non-tank build from 100>0.
Meteor is actually the easiest Cage combo to deal with (atleast as a stamblade) since you just cloak when you see the Meteor prompt, block while cloaked & you're good to go. Det pot guarantees a kill for sorc here of course, but even that can somewhat be countered by using their tendency to fight at maximum range against them (det pot has 20m radius).
Ok so if you can handle the combo then the picture you put up must have resulted in your failure to break out of rune. If you run out of resources you're going to die... unless the other guy is a tank.
It has nothing to do with not being able to break out of the rune. When you combo with Rune Cage, you guarantee that abilities land at the same time as the 4-5k damage CC. If someone for example saw a Frag coming and tried to dodge roll it, Rune Cage makes sure that Frag lands & you take full damage from it (and 4-5k from the Cage itself).
The difference is that when someone casts a Meteor on you you're given a clear "cloak now" cue where as other Cage bursts begin with the Cage CC'ing you & disabling your defenses.
That's why the full combo (any combo really that involves Meteor & doesn't involve det pots) is ironically easier to deal with as stamblade.
Frag has a cue that is petty obvious. I mean you had a 8 kill steak before the sorc killed you. I guess people will always complain about something.
Lol. Nightblade is mad because the ez-mode 8-kill streak on his overpowered stealth class wasn’t a 9-kill streak.
Let’s be honest. Nightblade and Sorc need some walking back. But... you guys first. Let’s start with incap, and th SIX seconds of 20% additional damage, not the stun. Let’s look at fear, because it REALLY shouldn’t affect multiple targets. How would you like an AOE rune cage? You probably wouldn’t.
By all means, let's. Incap is another big problem - but it is the stun portion that is problematic and makes burst combos too easy to perform on melee stamblades. Take it from someone who has played the class since before Incap (or Surprise Attack) even existed as stamina abilities.
The +20% damage (and Defile) for 6 seconds is actually helpful against targets it needs to help against: tank meta builds.
If Incap stunned only targets above your health pool (like it used to long time ago) you'd have a situation where a NB essentially loses 1 GCD dealing no damage (Fear) or has to land Surprise Attack from cloak for the CC portion of the burst.
That'd make it a lot more difficult to play NB, which imho wouldn't be a bad thing.
Luckily Incap overperforming was already mentioned to the developers:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/418184/class-reps-meeting-notes-june-7/p1
Fear though... it'd be like AoE Rune Cage if it had 10k tooltip & 36m range. At the moment it deals no damage, which is why many stamblades don't even slot it as it results in tempo loss when you're trying to burst someone down (you waste a GCD dealing no damage). Why use fear when you can stun with Incap instead & follow up with Assassin's Will/Scourge?
It's only good as "stam drain" vs permablockers (yeah, gl actually running them out of stam, atleast in 1v1).
You see, you’re only willing to give up the part of incap that’s easily made up for (the stun). It’s not like you can’t teleport strike out of stealth and incap. Or fear and incap.
The issue with incap is the low cost, it’s spammable every 3-4 seconds, and the defile/damage increase.
We know cage is probably getting the shaft at some point, either the range (making it worse than fear or fossil) or the damage (which, we never asked for). If they make it dodgeable or blockable there will be no use for it anymore, we’ll just use destructive reach. Better damage, smoother, faster, and spammable whether someone is using immovable or not.
If they take the damage off cage, then we need it back somewhere else, preferably back on frags. Right now crystal fragments is like the slow and dumber cousin of assassins will.
Who the *** slots Ambush anymore? In Summerset they removed the functionality of Ambush not breaking Cloak and they made the Empower not affect Incap, but rather the next Light Attack instead. That and the various nerfs to damage etc in previous patches... the ability is definitely not worth slotting anymore.
The only good gap closer left in the game is Empowering Chains.
Also, I think you're underestimating the potency of that stun.
There's a reason why Fear>Incap>anything never kills anyone who's not out of stamina: it's a *** "combo" (if you can call it that).
You cast Fear, opponent CC breaks, you Incap & opponent blocks it or dodges it (or starts blocking/dodging/shielding after that if slow on CC break), you certainly won't land Assassin's Scourge after that on anyone who is not a complete potato (I mean not just average or bad, but terribad).
Back in square 1 & opponent has CC immunity, shields up and you wasted your ulti.
The Incap stun though lets you do things like:
Heavy Attack+Incap from stealth->execute
Melee range Assassin's Scourge (harder to notice)->Incap->RIP
Incap->Assassin's Scourge->RIP if slow CC break+dodge
From sorc perspective, if Incap didn't stun (and NB didn't use another CC with it) you'd simply be able to take the damage from it (and nothing else), streak & stun the NB, shield up & you've reset the fight. Gg.
As for Rune Cage... funnily it'd still be better than Reach even if it wasn't undodgeable/blockable simply on the basis that it deals more damage, activates sorc passives and is unreflectable. Oh, and cheaper.
Should tell you all you need to know about how ridiculous it is atm.
Anyone using reach is sporting a master staff, and no cage doesn’t do more damage than master reach with the DOT. Master reach is cheaper than force pulse FFS.
By the same argument, shouldn’t you just be able to break cage an no one will ever get in a follow up skill? Just stand up and block!
That’s not how it works and you know it. There’s more wrong with incap than just the stun. Low cost, defile, six seconds of empower. One of those needs to go.
It's still more direct damage than Master Reach, even with Master's Staff (which limits your set options). In no-CP & even more so in CP.
Master Reach does become the cheaper of the two though.
And no, breaking Cage & breaking Fear aren't the same thing.- You take no damage breaking Fear. You take a *** ton of damage breaking Rune Cage.
- NB has no delayed burst (no POTL, Shalks, Curse etc etc) that you can make unavoidable with Fear. Not unless you slot Trapping Webs from Undaunted or Detonation. First is just a terrible idea & second is a decent one for magblades (but not on the level of Curse, POTL etc). I guess you can combo it with Meteor as magblade, but why would you when you can just Incap stun>Merciless for more damage?
- Fear has no delay like Rune Cage, you can't cast skills after using it & guarantee they land - it is entirely up to the reaction time of the opponent.
In other words: I can't "stand up & block" if I've been hit by all the delayed burst, pre-cast executes & burst abilities like Frags that land guaranteed due to the delay of Rune Cage. In that scenario I'm dead before I get the chance to block or dodge.
Yes, fear and cage are exactly the same, it take a good second to figure out that you’re feared to begin with, and another 1-2 just to break it because it’s bugged (like cage). You know that you will be able to incap in that frame 99% of the time, which is why you’re so “generously” offering to remove stun from the overpowered incap and then it’ll be balanced!
No. It won’t. Not until the defile, cost, or six seconds of 20% damage is fixed.
Master reach does more damage period. Front loaded and including the DOT, it counts- because there’s really only once class that purges the flame damage regularly. Everyone else eats it, how much depending on their thick skinned CP. Vampires love the fire DOT, it’s awesome.Edited by Minalan on June 28, 2018 12:28AM1 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So...
It's a "Sorcs are A-OK" thread that turned into a "nerf sorcs" thread that quickly turned into a "Nerf nightblades" thread.0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »So...
It's a "Sorcs are A-OK" thread that turned into a "nerf sorcs" thread that quickly turned into a "Nerf nightblades" thread.
Mostly because nightblades are doing most of the posting.
Templars? I think everyone owes them an apology for what ZOS did to them. But you rarely see them cry, at least not as loud or as long as nightblades - the best designed and best overall class in the game.6 -
Cadbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »So...
It's a "Sorcs are A-OK" thread that turned into a "nerf sorcs" thread that quickly turned into a "Nerf nightblades" thread.
Mostly because nightblades are doing most of the posting.
Templars? I think everyone owes them an apology for what ZOS did to them. But you rarely see them cry, at least not as loud or as long as nightblades - the best designed and best overall class in the game.
As a magplar main, I learned to keep my feelings on the inside...
:'(
"If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."4 -
usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
✭
You leave out the fact that sorc damage was buffed three fold with destro staff counting as 2 set pieces, light attack damage being buffed and Rune doing its damage up front. Arguments like “if the 2-4K damage from Rune killed you, you were going to die anyway” are complete and utter BS. That 2-4K hitting in the same GCD is now more than enough to put you in execute which should already be sitting on you like a ticking time bomb.Here’s some insight for you sorc fanboys who don’t know PvP outside your endless shield spam.
QQ rants don't equate to insight.Templars have bad dps compared to other classes, their jabs don’t even land most of the time and literally any player with any form of skill is easily able to dodge and evade the jab spam. All templars are essentially good for is turtling up and block castin BoL which basically makes them into a tank and does no damage. They can hardly kill any good class because they’re so vulnerable on offense you can literally smack a Templar in the face with a burst combo if they’re trying to go in the offensive. Their only form of dps is jabs and PoTL or purifying light combo which is the easiest burst to avoid. If you still cry about magplars being OP you’ve never played a Templar nor do you realize how difficult it is to actually do damage and have decent survivability on one.
Templar is a class that totally shines in a group setting but is very lacking when you run solo. A well played Templar makes a huge difference in a group. A Sorc not so much. You just can't compare the two classes as they function completely different. I'm all for giving Templar their soul back, but that has nothing to do with the OPness of Sorcs.Magsorcs have the easiest burst in the entire game. I don’t want to hear a stupid argument of “hrrr durrr stam haz their combo ez just Dawnbreaker spin 2 win” first off. You can block and dodge a dawnbreaker. You can block spin to win. Crying about DB spin to win combo is a l2p issue same with dying to a perma jab spammer. You just suck.
The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).Now back on the topic of sorcs. Rune cage is an uunblockable, undodgeable cc which has a massive range, relatively cheap cost, does a significant amount of damage, and has the longest stun duration. This has no counter play.
3k+ magicka (depending on LA passives) isn't "relatively cheap". Granted, the skill shouldn't have burst damage, but the rest of its functionality is exactly the same as before Summerset (hint: no one complained about it then).Don’t try and say “get more health” not all builds revolve around having a bunch of health.
I agree on that, but running a low health build is a build decision, and nothing you can complain about. At least that's what Sorcs get told all the time on the topic of Oblivion damage.Don’t try and say “get more stam, cc break”
In cyrodiil with lag already crazy enough as it is. Most of the time it’s not going to register you spamming your trigger buttons to cc break in time before the trash no skill sorc gives you the ez wombo combo burst.
I believe that's the main issue, and it isn't a Sorc specific one. CC is broken fundamentally in the game, and has been with specific CC skills for years (see Mass Hysteria for that). Fixing CC is the solution then.In non CP if you’re on a mag. Chances are you’re going to die pretty easily due to the fact that you have almost no stam, cc breaking takes half of it away, that’s not including having to use stam for blocking roll dodging or sprinting on a mag in non cp. so essentially you’re going to be hit with a full sorc burst and you cannot do a single thing about it.
I'm running with 16k stam on my noCP mSorc. Again, it's a conscious build decision if you run with less in favor of having a larger health and mag pool. If you want to know, a Sorc doesn't survive with 10k stam in noCP either.There’s is no counter play to an undodgeable unblockable cc with huge range. It’s an absolute joke for sorcs. Curse, meteor, rune cage, frags, excecute. Takes no skill and has no counter play. This is isn’t an “l2p” issue. It’s a “sorcs are ignorant af and don’t want their trash no skill builds nerfed or else they’ll cry like the babies they are” issue
Break free and roll dodge. If the 2k to 4k damage Rune Cage does now really kills you, you wouldn't have survived the follow up anyway. The exact same combination was possible before Summerset - without the Rune Cage damage.Please tell me how endless shield stacking and unblockable Undodgeable cc’s are balanced.
A typical Sorc build without pets or Necro/Shadowrend will be around 40k mag in noCP. Sgield stacking isn't endless if you want to go on the offensive too. And again, Sorcs had undodgeable and unblockable CC before Summerset.For those who try and argue saying fear and fossilize is Also unblockable and undodgable. First off. They require you to be in MELEE RANGE. Not to mention DK’s don’t have the damage output a sorc does so they can’t burst you down as fast as a sorc can when you’re fossilized. They also both have shorter stun duration and don’t do stupid amounts of damage. Not to mention you can’t just kill them from 41 meters away like you can on a trash sorc.
Melee range isn't a disadvantage if your class kit is built for melee (DK, stamNB). Only ranged magBlade is somewhat disadvantaged with Mass Hysteria, but they run Reach and/or Cripple anyway. As for magDKs damage output I'm not experienced enough to judge it, but the consensus from class mains seems to be that damage isn't the issue magDK has (although whip being dodgeable hurt them a bit).
40k magic in no cp! How do you endure. I can barely get 30k stamina while still building for all the other things I need to survive the Sorc fest BG’s have become.
Melee isn’t a disadvantage for melee characters If everyone I fought couldn’t damage me until I got within 5 meters of them. Sadly that isn’t the reality of things. The reality of PvP is far different then Sorcs defending their class would have you believe. Arguments like this are comical and anyone who has spent longer than 10 minutes in PvP can see right through it.
The fact that any person can legitimately argue that Sorc is balanced right now boggles my mind. This game needs a lot of changes. They could start with balancing Sorc, nerfing Sloads, nerfing Masters dual wield, nerfing Zaans, nerfing Caluurions, and nerfing the defile CP passive. It would be a good start.
And it was about damn time. Stam has been able to run two 5 piece sets and monster helm for far too long. Now that we can start doing it the tears start falling.Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.1 -
usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »So...
It's a "Sorcs are A-OK" thread that turned into a "nerf sorcs" thread that quickly turned into a "Nerf nightblades" thread.
Yes. Most of the sh*t posters on here are gankblades running 16k health.Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.4 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭The issue is lack of counterplay due to rune cage/ mages wrath (and even implosion).
As it stands in bgs I can literally pop targets when frags proc. With a wrath, curse, rune cage, frag into crushing shock. They literally pop. It's so easy i get mad at me for them. That's not even with an ultimate.
If you know how to play the class, it's not a hard just window. Sorc burst is out of hand.4 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »So...
It's a "Sorcs are A-OK" thread that turned into a "nerf sorcs" thread that quickly turned into a "Nerf nightblades" thread.
Mostly because nightblades are doing most of the posting.
Templars? I think everyone owes them an apology for what ZOS did to them. But you rarely see them cry, at least not as loud or as long as nightblades - the best designed and best overall class in the game.
Well its a different mind set of player. The NB's class brings players that don't want to actually engage in a fight and kill from safety. The whole class is built around that. Once thats taken away their whole world is turned upside down. We both know there are counters to cage they just don't want to accept that fact or have to actually put effort into a fight.
Why is it I have to fight folks running cage and I rarely get killed by it?4 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »I road the pet wave, but like most good sorcs in the current meta, I went mageblade about 7-8 months ago.
That's the simple truth. Go sorc to learn, then switch to magblade to really play end game.
I have an absurdly skilled guild mate who can pull 55k on the average trial on his sorc (static fight). Sounds big stuff, but when he logs on his worse geared magblade he does 67k...
That's 12k difference, and PvE DPS checks suddenly become a thing of the past.
Edited by Vahrokh on June 28, 2018 1:31AMVaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
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You leave out the fact that sorc damage was buffed three fold with destro staff counting as 2 set pieces, light attack damage being buffed and Rune doing its damage up front. Arguments like “if the 2-4K damage from Rune killed you, you were going to die anyway” are complete and utter BS. That 2-4K hitting in the same GCD is now more than enough to put you in execute which should already be sitting on you like a ticking time bomb.Here’s some insight for you sorc fanboys who don’t know PvP outside your endless shield spam.
QQ rants don't equate to insight.Templars have bad dps compared to other classes, their jabs don’t even land most of the time and literally any player with any form of skill is easily able to dodge and evade the jab spam. All templars are essentially good for is turtling up and block castin BoL which basically makes them into a tank and does no damage. They can hardly kill any good class because they’re so vulnerable on offense you can literally smack a Templar in the face with a burst combo if they’re trying to go in the offensive. Their only form of dps is jabs and PoTL or purifying light combo which is the easiest burst to avoid. If you still cry about magplars being OP you’ve never played a Templar nor do you realize how difficult it is to actually do damage and have decent survivability on one.
Templar is a class that totally shines in a group setting but is very lacking when you run solo. A well played Templar makes a huge difference in a group. A Sorc not so much. You just can't compare the two classes as they function completely different. I'm all for giving Templar their soul back, but that has nothing to do with the OPness of Sorcs.Magsorcs have the easiest burst in the entire game. I don’t want to hear a stupid argument of “hrrr durrr stam haz their combo ez just Dawnbreaker spin 2 win” first off. You can block and dodge a dawnbreaker. You can block spin to win. Crying about DB spin to win combo is a l2p issue same with dying to a perma jab spammer. You just suck.
The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).Now back on the topic of sorcs. Rune cage is an uunblockable, undodgeable cc which has a massive range, relatively cheap cost, does a significant amount of damage, and has the longest stun duration. This has no counter play.
3k+ magicka (depending on LA passives) isn't "relatively cheap". Granted, the skill shouldn't have burst damage, but the rest of its functionality is exactly the same as before Summerset (hint: no one complained about it then).Don’t try and say “get more health” not all builds revolve around having a bunch of health.
I agree on that, but running a low health build is a build decision, and nothing you can complain about. At least that's what Sorcs get told all the time on the topic of Oblivion damage.Don’t try and say “get more stam, cc break”
In cyrodiil with lag already crazy enough as it is. Most of the time it’s not going to register you spamming your trigger buttons to cc break in time before the trash no skill sorc gives you the ez wombo combo burst.
I believe that's the main issue, and it isn't a Sorc specific one. CC is broken fundamentally in the game, and has been with specific CC skills for years (see Mass Hysteria for that). Fixing CC is the solution then.In non CP if you’re on a mag. Chances are you’re going to die pretty easily due to the fact that you have almost no stam, cc breaking takes half of it away, that’s not including having to use stam for blocking roll dodging or sprinting on a mag in non cp. so essentially you’re going to be hit with a full sorc burst and you cannot do a single thing about it.
I'm running with 16k stam on my noCP mSorc. Again, it's a conscious build decision if you run with less in favor of having a larger health and mag pool. If you want to know, a Sorc doesn't survive with 10k stam in noCP either.There’s is no counter play to an undodgeable unblockable cc with huge range. It’s an absolute joke for sorcs. Curse, meteor, rune cage, frags, excecute. Takes no skill and has no counter play. This is isn’t an “l2p” issue. It’s a “sorcs are ignorant af and don’t want their trash no skill builds nerfed or else they’ll cry like the babies they are” issue
Break free and roll dodge. If the 2k to 4k damage Rune Cage does now really kills you, you wouldn't have survived the follow up anyway. The exact same combination was possible before Summerset - without the Rune Cage damage.Please tell me how endless shield stacking and unblockable Undodgeable cc’s are balanced.
A typical Sorc build without pets or Necro/Shadowrend will be around 40k mag in noCP. Sgield stacking isn't endless if you want to go on the offensive too. And again, Sorcs had undodgeable and unblockable CC before Summerset.For those who try and argue saying fear and fossilize is Also unblockable and undodgable. First off. They require you to be in MELEE RANGE. Not to mention DK’s don’t have the damage output a sorc does so they can’t burst you down as fast as a sorc can when you’re fossilized. They also both have shorter stun duration and don’t do stupid amounts of damage. Not to mention you can’t just kill them from 41 meters away like you can on a trash sorc.
Melee range isn't a disadvantage if your class kit is built for melee (DK, stamNB). Only ranged magBlade is somewhat disadvantaged with Mass Hysteria, but they run Reach and/or Cripple anyway. As for magDKs damage output I'm not experienced enough to judge it, but the consensus from class mains seems to be that damage isn't the issue magDK has (although whip being dodgeable hurt them a bit).
40k magic in no cp! How do you endure. I can barely get 30k stamina while still building for all the other things I need to survive the Sorc fest BG’s have become.
Melee isn’t a disadvantage for melee characters If everyone I fought couldn’t damage me until I got within 5 meters of them. Sadly that isn’t the reality of things. The reality of PvP is far different then Sorcs defending their class would have you believe. Arguments like this are comical and anyone who has spent longer than 10 minutes in PvP can see right through it.
The fact that any person can legitimately argue that Sorc is balanced right now boggles my mind. This game needs a lot of changes. They could start with balancing Sorc, nerfing Sloads, nerfing Masters dual wield, nerfing Zaans, nerfing Caluurions, and nerfing the defile CP passive. It would be a good start.
And of course, NB remains untouched. Because NB, which is currently far above DK, Warden and Temp, will regain solo top position once that pesky sorc competitor has been OHKO'd by the nerf hammer.
Right.
0 -
KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
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Your a sorc who cry more than anyone.rfennell_ESO wrote: »So...
It's a "Sorcs are A-OK" thread that turned into a "nerf sorcs" thread that quickly turned into a "Nerf nightblades" thread.
Mostly because nightblades are doing most of the posting.
Templars? I think everyone owes them an apology for what ZOS did to them. But you rarely see them cry, at least not as loud or as long as nightblades - the best designed and best overall class in the game.
3 -
IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Here's a fact of the day:
If you run under 25k health, you already are running on dangerously thin line. Any other classes will kill you as fast as a Sorc killed you at that health.Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel1 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »grannas211 wrote: »Wait for the incoming nightblade brigade to comment on "how easy it is to play" a Sorc.
It just boggles my mind when I read stuff like that. The combo isn't that easy to setup compared to DB spin to win or incap surprise attack.
I don't know how anyone with any sense can claim sorcs easier that NB's coming out of cloak to Incap.
That's not going to kill anyone though I hate stamblades as much as the next guy but coming out of stealth with a incap is at most 7 or 8k damage and next a 5 to 6k surprise attack and that's it. Curse and frag together will hit harder than this since frag has a higher tooltip than incap and curse has a higher tooltip than surprise attack. Damage isn't what makes stamblades annoying it's that they'll hit you two times and Cloak and then hit you two more times and Cloak it's just annoying to fightusmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
Bull***, you can survive anything in game with <20k health pool if you play well & react properly to things.
See a Leap? Block.
Someone used gap closer? Dodge roll if stamblade & block+dodge roll forward (through opponent) if another class.
Soul Assault? Block & cloak after 2s or block & drop a Ballista for a free kill
etc etc.
Rune Cage is the only exception that you cannot counter by any means available (apart from building as a tank) as it disables reaction based defenses.
I'm pretty sure I wasn't referring to single attacks. One properly placed cc of any type and you're toast with less than 20k health. And if you can't cc break rune in a 1v1 vs a sorc bad resource management was the cause of your death. In 1vx you were most likely going to die anyways regardless if the sorc was there or not.
its reffering to every medium build lol, going in medium you arnt tankly so everything will you eat if you are noob, if you are experienced you know how and what work and when run awya or from which got out fast and you dont have resource management problem, its just sorc noncounterable combo
medium isnt that tankly as heavy + in heavy you have bonuses to more max health and healing recevied if you didnt know before, thats why any medium armor user is fast melting if you catch him and he is unable to dodge/LoS your attacks
It's very much counterable.usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
nope you are wrong
I mainly play with just 16k health stamblade on noncp withou impene but with well fitted and I have no problem with most of things in pvp
only thing which can instagib me is nonblocked meteor, dk leap (but those are ults, ok) and ofc sorc amges wrath, annyoing as hell, once drop jsut to 20% hp where in many many times I still ave option to survive but against magsorc with this its always instagib with not to mention how his main burst is comming from unblockable and undodgable skills, none of rest classes can achieve burst with time of 1-2 sec with that many skill at once which are also unblockable and undodgable
so no, even when I running much under 20k health I dont getting rammed by everything when I know how and what is working
problem which I (and ofc not only I) have is nocounterable combo which sorc got after unecessary big nerfs to crystal frag where we had option with counter to his combo
Like I said gank build confirmed.
if I was gank build I will have stacked to max weapon damage and stamine isntead of 1.5k magica regen and 2.8k stam regen with only 30k stam and 3.5k weapon dmg buffed
most people jsut invest more to weapon dmg and max stats, I invested more to regens becasue I jsut cant play even with very high stats if I dont have regens and I dont think this could be gank build with thal low stacked damage and invested into high both stat regens at once
EDIT: and btw you never written you even think Im on gank build
Most nightblades I personally know that play the rogue/ganker type run bone pirate mixed with shackle. Nightblades sacrifice very little in burst by running multiple sustain sets or even defense based sets.
I was runnign as ganker until final nerfs as for me with morrowind but its offtopic
and as counterable sorc como..this was counterable until those changes to rune cage + with old crystal frags it was really counterable
can you then please tell me cow to counter unmitigable stun with additional damage if it end/break free + before placed on you curse and flying to you crystal frag and just before hit you getting rune cage while dodge?
can you conter this all damage if you instantly will get this unmitigable cc? always we can also add meteor to this to 100% guaranted kill with rune cage
You basically want to cc the sorc as soon as you see the meteor rune at your feet. Hell you don't even need to do that if you chug an immovable pot. Tons of options to you as a nightblade as far as stun goes. If he's got mines up you basically have free cc immunity on demand.
You can't CC someone who's 36m away spamming *** (newsflash: most builds don't have 36m+ undodgeable/blockable CCs), Immovable has 45s cooldown (unlike sorc burst) & mines don't give CC immunity, they give root immunity (and hit really f'in hard if you're not a tank build) as they're not CCs, they're roots.
Oh, and Bone Pirate+Shackle most definitely isn't a "gank build" like you implied earlier lmao
It's getting harder & harder to take this seriously.
28+5= 33 not 36. The same distance as gap closers. This is only near keeps.
Class doesn't matter on burst cooldown... sorcs are delayed burst anyways and fairly dependant on ult. An ult that cost 200 compared to 70...laughable.
And I thought you could break free after being hit by mines. That was my mistake. Still doesn't take away the relevance of my argument that there are counters to sorc burst.
same distance as gap closers? you forgot gap closers have 22m range and skillis with range better than 28m have additional 8m range in just battlespirit so you have 36m range on simple range skill while gap closer is only 22m, gl with running those few meters where every sec is very important
Good players can cover that distance before you get half of your rotation off.usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
Bull***, you can survive anything in game with <20k health pool if you play well & react properly to things.
See a Leap? Block.
Someone used gap closer? Dodge roll if stamblade & block+dodge roll forward (through opponent) if another class.
Soul Assault? Block & cloak after 2s or block & drop a Ballista for a free kill
etc etc.
Rune Cage is the only exception that you cannot counter by any means available (apart from building as a tank) as it disables reaction based defenses.
I'm pretty sure I wasn't referring to single attacks. One properly placed cc of any type and you're toast with less than 20k health. And if you can't cc break rune in a 1v1 vs a sorc bad resource management was the cause of your death. In 1vx you were most likely going to die anyways regardless if the sorc was there or not.
its reffering to every medium build lol, going in medium you arnt tankly so everything will you eat if you are noob, if you are experienced you know how and what work and when run awya or from which got out fast and you dont have resource management problem, its just sorc noncounterable combo
medium isnt that tankly as heavy + in heavy you have bonuses to more max health and healing recevied if you didnt know before, thats why any medium armor user is fast melting if you catch him and he is unable to dodge/LoS your attacks
It's very much counterable.usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
nope you are wrong
I mainly play with just 16k health stamblade on noncp withou impene but with well fitted and I have no problem with most of things in pvp
only thing which can instagib me is nonblocked meteor, dk leap (but those are ults, ok) and ofc sorc amges wrath, annyoing as hell, once drop jsut to 20% hp where in many many times I still ave option to survive but against magsorc with this its always instagib with not to mention how his main burst is comming from unblockable and undodgable skills, none of rest classes can achieve burst with time of 1-2 sec with that many skill at once which are also unblockable and undodgable
so no, even when I running much under 20k health I dont getting rammed by everything when I know how and what is working
problem which I (and ofc not only I) have is nocounterable combo which sorc got after unecessary big nerfs to crystal frag where we had option with counter to his combo
Like I said gank build confirmed.
if I was gank build I will have stacked to max weapon damage and stamine isntead of 1.5k magica regen and 2.8k stam regen with only 30k stam and 3.5k weapon dmg buffed
most people jsut invest more to weapon dmg and max stats, I invested more to regens becasue I jsut cant play even with very high stats if I dont have regens and I dont think this could be gank build with thal low stacked damage and invested into high both stat regens at once
EDIT: and btw you never written you even think Im on gank build
Most nightblades I personally know that play the rogue/ganker type run bone pirate mixed with shackle. Nightblades sacrifice very little in burst by running multiple sustain sets or even defense based sets.
I was runnign as ganker until final nerfs as for me with morrowind but its offtopic
and as counterable sorc como..this was counterable until those changes to rune cage + with old crystal frags it was really counterable
can you then please tell me cow to counter unmitigable stun with additional damage if it end/break free + before placed on you curse and flying to you crystal frag and just before hit you getting rune cage while dodge?
can you conter this all damage if you instantly will get this unmitigable cc? always we can also add meteor to this to 100% guaranted kill with rune cage
You basically want to cc the sorc as soon as you see the meteor rune at your feet. Hell you don't even need to do that if you chug an immovable pot. Tons of options to you as a nightblade as far as stun goes. If he's got mines up you basically have free cc immunity on demand.
You can't CC someone who's 36m away spamming *** (newsflash: most builds don't have 36m+ undodgeable/blockable CCs), Immovable has 45s cooldown (unlike sorc burst) & mines don't give CC immunity, they give root immunity (and hit really f'in hard if you're not a tank build) as they're not CCs, they're roots.
Oh, and Bone Pirate+Shackle most definitely isn't a "gank build" like you implied earlier lmao
It's getting harder & harder to take this seriously.
28+5= 33 not 36. The same distance as gap closers. This is only near keeps.
Class doesn't matter on burst cooldown... sorcs are delayed burst anyways and fairly dependant on ult. An ult that cost 200 compared to 70...laughable.
And I thought you could break free after being hit by mines. That was my mistake. Still doesn't take away the relevance of my argument that there are counters to sorc burst.
You get +8m range on all skills with 28m range from Battle Spirit. In case of keep fights we'd be talking about a 41m (Reach passive) ability, not 36m.
...and you definitely don't need ultimate to burst someone down with Rune Cage, here's an example:
You just need to land multiple hard hitting abilities at the same time & get a Fury or Implosion proc for the kill now.
In previous patches the burst was very close, but not quite enough (without Meteor) to kill someone in a non-tank build from 100>0.
Meteor is actually the easiest Cage combo to deal with (atleast as a stamblade) since you just cloak when you see the Meteor prompt, block while cloaked & you're good to go. Det pot guarantees a kill for sorc here of course, but even that can somewhat be countered by using their tendency to fight at maximum range against them (det pot has 20m radius).
Ok so if you can handle the combo then the picture you put up must have resulted in your failure to break out of rune. If you run out of resources you're going to die... unless the other guy is a tank.
It has nothing to do with not being able to break out of the rune. When you combo with Rune Cage, you guarantee that abilities land at the same time as the 4-5k damage CC. If someone for example saw a Frag coming and tried to dodge roll it, Rune Cage makes sure that Frag lands & you take full damage from it (and 4-5k from the Cage itself).
The difference is that when someone casts a Meteor on you you're given a clear "cloak now" cue where as other Cage bursts begin with the Cage CC'ing you & disabling your defenses.
That's why the full combo (any combo really that involves Meteor & doesn't involve det pots) is ironically easier to deal with as stamblade.
Frag has a cue that is petty obvious. I mean you had a 8 kill steak before the sorc killed you. I guess people will always complain about something.
Lol. Nightblade is mad because the ez-mode 8-kill streak on his overpowered stealth class wasn’t a 9-kill streak.
Let’s be honest. Nightblade and Sorc need some walking back. But... you guys first. Let’s start with incap, and th SIX seconds of 20% additional damage, not the stun. Let’s look at fear, because it REALLY shouldn’t affect multiple targets. How would you like an AOE rune cage? You probably wouldn’t.
By all means, let's. Incap is another big problem - but it is the stun portion that is problematic and makes burst combos too easy to perform on melee stamblades. Take it from someone who has played the class since before Incap (or Surprise Attack) even existed as stamina abilities.
The +20% damage (and Defile) for 6 seconds is actually helpful against targets it needs to help against: tank meta builds.
If Incap stunned only targets above your health pool (like it used to long time ago) you'd have a situation where a NB essentially loses 1 GCD dealing no damage (Fear) or has to land Surprise Attack from cloak for the CC portion of the burst.
That'd make it a lot more difficult to play NB, which imho wouldn't be a bad thing.
Luckily Incap overperforming was already mentioned to the developers:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/418184/class-reps-meeting-notes-june-7/p1
Fear though... it'd be like AoE Rune Cage if it had 10k tooltip & 36m range. At the moment it deals no damage, which is why many stamblades don't even slot it as it results in tempo loss when you're trying to burst someone down (you waste a GCD dealing no damage). Why use fear when you can stun with Incap instead & follow up with Assassin's Will/Scourge?
It's only good as "stam drain" vs permablockers (yeah, gl actually running them out of stam, atleast in 1v1).
You see, you’re only willing to give up the part of incap that’s easily made up for (the stun). It’s not like you can’t teleport strike out of stealth and incap. Or fear and incap.
The issue with incap is the low cost, it’s spammable every 3-4 seconds, and the defile/damage increase.
We know cage is probably getting the shaft at some point, either the range (making it worse than fear or fossil) or the damage (which, we never asked for). If they make it dodgeable or blockable there will be no use for it anymore, we’ll just use destructive reach. Better damage, smoother, faster, and spammable whether someone is using immovable or not.
If they take the damage off cage, then we need it back somewhere else, preferably back on frags. Right now crystal fragments is like the slow and dumber cousin of assassins will.
Who the *** slots Ambush anymore? In Summerset they removed the functionality of Ambush not breaking Cloak and they made the Empower not affect Incap, but rather the next Light Attack instead. That and the various nerfs to damage etc in previous patches... the ability is definitely not worth slotting anymore.
The only good gap closer left in the game is Empowering Chains.
Also, I think you're underestimating the potency of that stun.
There's a reason why Fear>Incap>anything never kills anyone who's not out of stamina: it's a *** "combo" (if you can call it that).
You cast Fear, opponent CC breaks, you Incap & opponent blocks it or dodges it (or starts blocking/dodging/shielding after that if slow on CC break), you certainly won't land Assassin's Scourge after that on anyone who is not a complete potato (I mean not just average or bad, but terribad).
Back in square 1 & opponent has CC immunity, shields up and you wasted your ulti.
The Incap stun though lets you do things like:
Heavy Attack+Incap from stealth->execute
Melee range Assassin's Scourge (harder to notice)->Incap->RIP
Incap->Assassin's Scourge->RIP if slow CC break+dodge
From sorc perspective, if Incap didn't stun (and NB didn't use another CC with it) you'd simply be able to take the damage from it (and nothing else), streak & stun the NB, shield up & you've reset the fight. Gg.
As for Rune Cage... funnily it'd still be better than Reach even if it wasn't undodgeable/blockable simply on the basis that it deals more damage, activates sorc passives and is unreflectable. Oh, and cheaper.
Should tell you all you need to know about how ridiculous it is atm.
Anyone using reach is sporting a master staff, and no cage doesn’t do more damage than master reach with the DOT. Master reach is cheaper than force pulse FFS.
By the same argument, shouldn’t you just be able to break cage an no one will ever get in a follow up skill? Just stand up and block!
That’s not how it works and you know it. There’s more wrong with incap than just the stun. Low cost, defile, six seconds of empower. One of those needs to go.
It's still more direct damage than Master Reach, even with Master's Staff (which limits your set options). In no-CP & even more so in CP.
Master Reach does become the cheaper of the two though.
And no, breaking Cage & breaking Fear aren't the same thing.- You take no damage breaking Fear. You take a *** ton of damage breaking Rune Cage.
- NB has no delayed burst (no POTL, Shalks, Curse etc etc) that you can make unavoidable with Fear. Not unless you slot Trapping Webs from Undaunted or Detonation. First is just a terrible idea & second is a decent one for magblades (but not on the level of Curse, POTL etc). I guess you can combo it with Meteor as magblade, but why would you when you can just Incap stun>Merciless for more damage?
- Fear has no delay like Rune Cage, you can't cast skills after using it & guarantee they land - it is entirely up to the reaction time of the opponent.
In other words: I can't "stand up & block" if I've been hit by all the delayed burst, pre-cast executes & burst abilities like Frags that land guaranteed due to the delay of Rune Cage. In that scenario I'm dead before I get the chance to block or dodge.
Yes, fear and cage are exactly the same, it take a good second to figure out that you’re feared to begin with, and another 1-2 just to break it because it’s bugged (like cage). You know that you will be able to incap in that frame 99% of the time, which is why you’re so “generously” offering to remove stun from the overpowered incap and then it’ll be balanced!
No. It won’t. Not until the defile, cost, or six seconds of 20% damage is fixed.
Master reach does more damage period. Front loaded and including the DOT, it counts- because there’s really only once class that purges the flame damage regularly. Everyone else eats it, how much depending on their thick skinned CP. Vampires love the fire DOT, it’s awesome.
The stun on incap is the part that needs to go though. There is a huge difference between opening up your burst window with incap and opening up your burst window with fear. If you open with incap you are guaranteed to land an additional attack vs if you open with fear you only guarantee that you land incap which will not be enough to kill anyone.Edited by thankyourat on June 28, 2018 3:08AM4
