I said no before but changed my mind since the last poll.

josiahva wrote: »

Yes please...I think this is the first step to making trials less elitist. Sure...there will be many people unable to complete them the first time they queue...just like happens with EVERY vet DLC dungeon...but eventually, as people get practice with the fights, the completion rate will increase until like now...when going into a vet DLC dungeon via the group finder I can complete it 80% of the time.

Look at it another way: there is NO REASON not to have this option. If you are afraid of not completing it with a pug...simply dont use the group finder...go with a pre-made. There is nothing wrong with having options.

You get higher completion rates now because:
a) Power creep since they were released due to the increase of CP cap and new sets.
b) Nerf to the content itself due to people not being able to complete.

No, trials should not be in the GF.

Also, GF is already broken as it is, when using it to find 4 people, I can't even begin to imagine what it would be like to do it for 12... but that's just an observation.

jabrone77 wrote: »

I see alot of "pugs fail" as a reason to say no, while seeing alot of suggestions to just ask in Craglorn. But, that's also a pug.
All this tool would do is allow you to get into a pug without having to go to a zone and spam chat. A pug is a pug, there's no guarantee weather that's using a tool or spamming chat. It's just a convenience, nothing more.
So yes, for normal trials, I don't see the difference between hitting a button to queue or screaming in chat.
All the reasons for "no" already happen now, there would be literally no other difference except for convenience.
The only other argument I see against it comes down to "new players might try trials" and that just seems silly. Sure, all new players won't be top tier from jump, but they don't need to be....it's a normal pug, not some leaderboard run...

See above.

Hurtfan wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Hurtfan wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Hurtfan wrote: »

nnargun wrote: »

Hurtfan wrote: »

Yes, you don't have to use this feature if you don't want to. Why not have it as an option?

People who want to but don't bring the requirements will be the problem. Not people who don't want to.

Ever been in a bad trial pug? Even the Craglorn trials can get very frustrating very quickly if half of the group expects being carried spamming LAs.

People know the risks, and yes, we all have been in bad PUGs. It's not the end of the world.

The ones with experience know the risks. The ones getting ready to cause the impending train wreck are quite oblivious, I assure you.

Ignorance is bliss. And someone may make a friend or 2 out of it and at least get a taste of what Trials are all about. Not everyone is a social butterfly, some people are shy and have a hard time putting groups together, joining a guild or whatever.

High odds of lack of success doesn't inspire people to branch out. It's why a good group and a good trial lead are worth their weight in gold.

And, why are you worried about it? You wouldn't use this feature.

At what point did I say I wouldn't use it?

Please get your sources right.

I recommended an experience factor, because there is a vast difference between a brand new group setting foot into a brand new trial for the first time and a group with assorted levels of knowledge, experience, and successful completion.

Most that have been in trials know this. Those that have lead trials definitely know this.

If it's simply for a taste of trials, that's what norms are for. And, if you scroll back up to my actual response, you'll see that I selected option 3 and clarified why.

So you're telling me, after reading your posts, you would use it? I stand corrected.

There really isn't a solid argument not to have it, don't want to deal with it? Don't use it. Going a step further, there are some good players out there naturally (some people are just good at raiding in general and get it), so couldn't there be instances where the PUG might actually finish the trial?

I just don't understand why people gripe about something that wouldn't affect them in any way, shape or form.

I'll tell you right now, no way would I use it, so why would I be against it?

He didn't vote "No", though...

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

It wouldn't affect premades, so I don't see a reason against it.
You prefer to LFG in zone chat? That's fine, you can do that too. Some people still do that for HM pledges.
Worst case scenario ZoS implements it and no one uses... Harm done? 0.

See my first response.

Noldornir wrote: »

Yes, why shouldn't they? If you can pug for vet Scalecaller/Fang Lair etc. why not in trials? Normal trials are easier than some vet dungeon and if you really dont want to use the feat. you can ignore it (I never pugged for Vet SP or FL, i got SP from a pug once and after a few wiped on last boss that went well, I've been lucky.

Many times i PUGged for Nmol, asked if someone needed mechs, got no answer n found myself in a hen with crazy chickens runnin around and bumping each other with different colors (not to mention ranged guys that wanted to fight next to me, the tank, and, of course, with different color

Truth is that pugging, DPS tests etc. gives you no idea on how good the player is at all just like a random (but there are CP limits in there; u wont find a CP 50 player that wants to come since he can't). For normal craglorn's I'd put 160 CP minimum, while other should be more.

In normal trials, even harder ones like MoL/HoF you need ppl that can follow instruction more than experienced ones(this helps of course but only 'cause experienced ones needs no instruction at all).

Did VAA last sunday, off tank never been there even on norm but was good at following instruction. Some DDs also knew the normal but never the Vet (hence many deaths on first boss on the first 3-4 thunderstorms) since in normal one usually just ignores the pain and heal over it. That was luck until someone broke all the orbs and triggered HM (we haven't even tried that, not enough DPS for endphase).

This to say: in pug u need luck just like in activity finder, u don't know who answer to you so let's just make it quickier and non zone-dependant (I'd like to be able to pug withoud being forced to stay in craglorn/summerset/capitals).

Literally the post above yours...

There is a history of content being nerfed because people were unable to complete it.

People that went to the trouble of joining a guild, learning the mechanics, and following directions would rather not have said content nerfed.

This is why.

Hope it clarifies.

No definitly not with the current system. If it would actually make precise distinctions and check if the tanks have shields equipped and if the Healers are actual Healers, then it could work but at its current state it would only end up being a total deal breaker.

No trials in the Group Finder, for the following reasons:
- Lack of "mic-required" enforcement (communication is essential in a trial)
- "Fake Tanks" and "Fake Healers" (both roles are REQUIRED; some trials require more than 1 tank)
- Light Attack spammers pretending to be DPS (quickly becomes a glaring flaw in execute phases)
- Inability to regulate stamina and magicka dps in the group (too many melee players is lethal in several trials)

More than enough reasons to abandon the idea entirely. The vast majority of people who favor the group finder for trials are the same folks who cause one or more of the above issues in the first place (i.e. dead-weight carries, fake roles, etc).

As a player who has not been in a trial (except that one time back in OS in craglorn as a dragon knight tank) I can only say I can go about 50-50 with this, because sure I wouldn’t mind a normal trials LFG, but there would have to be strict requirements such as being mandatorily level 50 champion 160, because not only do people have to learn the mechanics, but if some players do not properly pull their weight, one wrong move could end up costing others greatly should particular individuals decide to run a vet trial through co-ordination & guilds and vice versa.

Hurtfan wrote: »

Yes, you don't have to use this feature if you don't want to. Why not have it as an option?

This. Everyone pays the same to play. Why not let folks see all the content? Elitists don't have to use it if the don't want to.

Badmethod wrote: »

Hurtfan wrote: »

Yes, you don't have to use this feature if you don't want to. Why not have it as an option?

This. Everyone pays the same to play. Why not let folks see all the content? Elitists don't have to use it if the don't want to.

But those "non-elitist" people do not deserve bad experiences. They dont deserve to waste their time on a lost cause (such as vmol with random people and no communication).
I personally think its ok to add normal trials but vet is completely out of question. And in any case, overall experience is usually better with a guild group. There's a lot of guilds that dont require too much commitment.

As long as it's implemented properly it's a good idea. Having options like 'Beginner - Normal/Experienced - Normal' will help filter those people who are running for the first time or the hundredth.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Other

For normal, sure.

For Vet, not without some kind of rank/experience tier structure attached to those trying to join. You could probably have 12 people that have cleared content do so again as PuGs. If a large portion have not, it's likely going to be an exercise in frustration.

You'd have to have a penalty too, so people aren't dropping out 10 minutes into it.

It's not a bad idea in and of itself, I'm just not sure how successful it would be or how much use it would see.

Penalty for being stuck with a bad group is a big no.

shadowwraith666 wrote: »

Bhaal5 wrote: »

You could easily
One: Join a guild that does trials
or
Two: Create your own guild and put some hard yards in yourself to get things up an going

trials should not be gated behind guilds

Its not "gated" behind guilds, you can pug normal trials all day every day, but for more difficult group content you need a decent group and some sort of group communication. Which means that you will have better chances with a group of people you already know.
Besides, joining a guild is not a punishment. Its a way to improve your ingame experience. Even pledges and random dungeons are more fun with like minded people.

starkerealm wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Don’t like it, don’t use it. No excuse for the inept social tools we’ve been fumbling with for years. Only people against this are the Craglorn skin-sellers. Everyone else just wants to run a Trial without shouting in various zone and guild chats for hours.

Well, here's a fun bit of trivia: The only ones I have are the mindshriven, zombie, ebony, and bloodforge skins. You might notice, all of those are crown store skins.

You're not the first person who thought to themselves, well, those skin sellers are just trying to keep us out of trials. No.

I've been in vet trials. I have vet clears of the crag trials and AS. If you don't believe me, and you're on PCNA, feel free to swing by my house and check out the basement. However, the vet trials you're talking about are, in fact, quite difficult. I still remember a thread from a couple months ago, where someone was wanting to pug vMoL to get the skin, to bypass all the elitists who were locking people out. I never heard anything from them after the fact, though. And, I know that their group didn't clear vMoL, or they would have talked about it.

Trial clears depend on having a solid group of players. Not, "the best." Not even particularly fantastic damage in some cases, but players who are willing to pay attention, work together, and willing to work to improve their own performance when things head south. So, no, this isn't a troll on the bridge demanding shinies to let you pass, it's a legitimate assessment about the content you're talking about. Content we have run. Content, I'd be willing to run with you. But, content, I know is not as simple as facerolling vVoM.

Again, you fail to answer the simple question of why not? Having the option there does not hurt those people who run all the trials with their guilds anyway. Just like having the dungeon finder doesn't stop me from taking a couple newbie friends of mine to run some dungeon or another. What this option WILL do, is give people a chance to practice trials on their own terms and progress through them at their own rate, and yes, the option for both normal and vet trials should be there. People always say voice communication is needed for trials...and while it certainly helps, it really is just optional if people are experienced and know what they are doing. For me, I know very well that to start with pugging a trial would be a wipe fest...but I also know the longer it stays in the group finder, the higher the completion rate will climb. There are several things that turn me off about trials currently that group finder would solve.

1. I don't want to schedule my life days in advance around a video game...this often happens in trials guilds. If I want a spot in a trial, I need to sign up in advance with my PvE guilds.
2. I want the freedom to try out different builds in a trial setting. Way too often in PvE guilds they want you to wear this exact set and use these exact skills. This happens to lesser degree in vet DLC dungeons too...but NEVER happens in dungeon finder.

If I am interested in hitting the leaderboards...I will run with a pre-made...but if I just want to practice a bit of tanking of the scimitars...I should have the option of a group finder pug. If I want to try out a new combination of skills and sets...a pug is a better setting. A pug is ALWAYS a better setting for self-improvement since you always end up carrying more weight...this is why I enjoy pugging vet DLC dungeons...it makes me a better player better able to compensate for other people's mistakes and I dont like the fact that I am locked out of trials which would step up that challenge more.

I will look for groups or create groups by hopping from zone to zone, announcing in chat, and moving to the next one.

HOW would that be different than a group finder looking across zones?

Please, yes!

But put a little thought into how it would work. Maybe require a certain level of cp. Maybe require an account completion for the harder trials or for vet trials. Maybe put a longer time on "ready/accept" for trials. I'm sure others would have better ideas than I. But as someone who plays during non peak times, I think this would be amazingly helpful.