The Imperial City Problem

blacksghost · June 2018

I want to be able to do IC, really I do, the compeltionist in me demands I do it, but the pvp style hater in me just can’t cope with it. It’s a shame, like craglorn the concept has at its heart a flaw. Cyrodil as a region has some good pve content it’s just a shame it’s also got pvp. That said we pve’er do have a lot of safer content to play in.

In my ideal world the option to chose a solo instance for suitably adjusted rewards would be available. I don’t want alliancebpoints when I’m basically an alliance of one lone player.

MrSensible · June 2018

Keep IC as PVP/PVE mix, but change the incentives so that people have a reason to be there.

agegarton wrote: »

The idea that a PVP player in PVP-aligned gear can’t PVE, and vice versa, is utter drivel. The differences do not make the two battle scenarios mutually exclusive and a decent player can adapt easily to the differences.

I don't think anyone said that you can't pvp in pve gear, or that you can't pve in pvp gear. The point was that, given two players of equal skill, the one in PVE gear WILL get rolled by the PVP-geared player. It is extremely difficult to outplay someone of equal skill who is in PVP gear while you're rocking PVE gear. It could happen; anything can happen. But let's be real, it probably won't. You're even less likely to come out on top if you were fighting a mob at the time you were sneak attacked (and again, let's be real, you were probably sneak attacked).

Vapirko · June 2018

Keep IC as PVP/PVE mix, but change the incentives so that people have a reason to be there.

I like the PvE/PvP mix, when there’s people down there in small groups it’s great, and being able to tactically use npc enemies is fun. The environment heavily favors NBs but that’s fine with me. The gank playstyle in of itself has never been an issue, sets like selenes, vipers, Zaan, sloads, issues with snipe lag, those things have made it an issue.

The_Sadist · June 2018

As a pure PvE based player who has only ever really been into Cyrodil on my main for map completion, to unlock the spells and for a little bit of guild related fun, I'm not sure when I'll visit The Imperial City. While I understand the appeal of a PvPvE environment for some, it's just not for me. I like my PvP and PvE to be separate and I feel most pure PvE based players would agree. That being said, running around Cyrodil was actually an enjoyable grind experience with a friend or two. Jumping into a delve and having a player from an enemy faction pop up always managed to cause a spike in the good old adrenaline. We'll see, I haven't heard great things about it ingame and it seems all the PvPers who actually want a fair fight are off doing other things anyway.

adriant1978 · June 2018

Other

The_Sadist wrote: »

As a pure PvE based player who has only ever really been into Cyrodil on my main for map completion, to unlock the spells and for a little bit of guild related fun, I'm not sure when I'll visit The Imperial City.

If you can get together a group of like-minded friends or guildies I would recommend it; the PvE story in the IC is actually quite good and fun. You will need a group though as there are parts which are hard if not impossible to solo and you can't really count on finding a PUG for it after all this time.

Bigevilpeter · June 2018

IC is my favorite PvP content in the game, I'm mainly a pver but its because made me hate pvp, its so chaotic and zergy and you spend more time riding the horse than actually fighting other players.

IC is a good small scale pvp that is a good place to have high risk, but seems more fair and organized than cyrodil except the few cases where there is a zerg there.

I have no trouble farminng telvars and AP there even with pve gear. I like it the way it is and i hope they dont change it

nryerson1025 · June 2018

I think the banner men and sewer bosses should give significantly higher tel var rewards. Some of those banner men can be pretty tough!

Kingslayer513 · June 2018

Make IC into a pure PVE zone.

Changing it to a separate PVE zone is exactly the revamp that IC needs. The game is in a different place now than it was back when IC launched. Honestly I think it should be the hardest PVE zone in the game. Sort of like Craglorn used to be, but do it right this time.

The PVP and PVE hybrid idea has lost its luster. I'd rather see more additions to battlegrounds, especially other team configurations than 4v4v4. Or maybe ZOS can throw a hail mary and fix Cyrodiil. Regardless, it's time to give IC over to PVE.

DenMoria · June 2018

Keep IC as PVP/PVE mix, but change the incentives so that people have a reason to be there.

IC has PvE? I never noticed. Of course I never survive long enough...

Kingslayer513 wrote: »

Changing it to a separate PVE zone is exactly the revamp that IC needs. The game is in a different place now than it was back when IC launched. Honestly I think it should be the hardest PVE zone in the game. Sort of like Craglorn used to be, but do it right this time.

The PVP and PVE hybrid idea has lost its luster. I'd rather see more additions to battlegrounds, especially other team configurations than 4v4v4. Or maybe ZOS can throw a hail mary and fix Cyrodiil. Regardless, it's time to give IC over to PVE.

nemvar · June 2018

Keep IC as PVP/PVE mix, but change the incentives so that people have a reason to be there.

Do we really need another PvE zone? I just went into Vivec on PC EU and IC was fairly populated. Just make the TV buff from the flags apply in the sewers and seperate it from cryo.

TheDoomsdayMonster · June 2018

Other

To each his own, but I absolutely love IC as is...

I am able to get the solo/small group gameplay that I love consistently; every now and then a zerg sized group will form for one of the factions, but it is rare...

I think IC has a good blend of PvP and PvE gameplay...

I especially love the risk/reward system with the Tel Var; it is designed to discourage zerg like behavior and for the most part it does discourage zerging as no one wants to give Tel Var away...

As a result, I think IC should stay as is...

Edit: I voted "other" btw as the poll choices have a bit of author biased infused into them...

itscompton · June 2018

Keep IC as PVP/PVE mix, but change the incentives so that people have a reason to be there.

mb10 wrote: »

Why would ZOS spend 30 seconds of thier time on this if it isnt going to fill their pockets up with money?

Will stay exactly how it is for the next 5 years.

They have actually overhauled the mechanics of IC once already with no extra $ incentive in it for them. Unfortunately they totally Wrobled it all up and made it way less popular as a result of the changes.

TheDoomsdayMonster · June 2018

Other

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

It makes no sense since PvE and PvP use entirely different builds.

A PvEer won't be able to fight back against a PvPer since their divines/DoT-heavy build will not deal any damage to a PvPer while they themselves will die in 1-2 hits.

A PvPer likewise won't get a good fight out of these players as they'll go down faster than an overland mob.

it's silly content.

Your PvP gear works just fine in IC as far as I can see...

As long as your build is solid, you should be able to perform against both PC's and NPC's with your PvP gear...

Chrysa1is · June 2018

Keep IC as PVP/PVE mix, but change the incentives so that people have a reason to be there.

The best PvP happened in the Arena District where people would just respawn and be straight back in the fight. It was dead fun and packed full of players. But now you have respawn time and you can't spawn in the district if your alliance hasnt captured it. Shame ZOS did this

generalmyrick · June 2018

Keep IC as PVP/PVE mix, but change the incentives so that people have a reason to be there.

Chrysa1is wrote: »

The best PvP happened in the Arena District where people would just respawn and be straight back in the fight. It was dead fun and packed full of players. But now you have respawn time and you can't spawn in the district if your alliance hasnt captured it. Shame ZOS did this

my guild of 12 ran into another group of 12 in the sewers....whoa..no space to fight, it was magnificent chaos!!!!

Revokus · June 2018

Make IC into a pure PVP zone.

Get rid of the useless mobs in there always in your face for no damn reason than annoyance. Bad design is bad design. Get rid of the 10+ man zergs that only go there to annoy people while they think it’s fun to earn 10 telvar per boss because they are too big of a group. Give IC it’s own solo queue limiting the number of players per instance like a battleground. Give IC it’s own leaderboard with new objectives and points of interest to earn telvar. That should do it for a fair competitive ground that rewards skill to earn your telvar. Hell make IC a every man for himself zone with the feeling of danger at every corners and rewards those who make use of the buildings to hide and seek.

Stewart1874 · June 2018

Its less of an imperial city problem and more of a PVP is total cancer for PVE'rs. A PVE character cannot play PVP effectively. IMO I think at least for battlegrounds ZOS should look at offering preset classes to allow PVE'rs to sample PVP as it was intended. The current incarnation of PVP is about as tempting to do as shitting in your hands and clapping.

Kalgert · June 2018

Make IC into a pure PVE zone.

I like the idea of going to the Imperial City, but what I don't like is how it's more or less a place that you may not have as much fun in, if you're one type of demographic or not.

The place has a good amount of PvE offerings and rewards that can be used for PvE. But it kinda defeats the point of it all when you want to turn in your rewards, only to get ramhoused by some Nightblade who's probably being played by Her-Trigger (Venture Brothers fans will get what I'm going at).

If you really have to keep the whole PvP-PvE aspect alive, why not just redesign the place by making the Tel'Var drops obsolete? That way PvP won't feel like something that should be avoided, but an addition to the PvE farming. Or make it that you can hire someone who takes 30% of the Tel'var stones you earn while keeping you PvP-proof.

Or just drop all pretenses and just make it in to a PvE area, or open up a PvE phase for it with lesser rewards and no PvP rewards. Instead of purple items you get blue items, instead of 100% Tel'var stones, you get 70% or 50% of the original drop. But I think the salt from that change would outweight any salt generated by the existence of Sloads.

dem0n1k wrote: »

Change the PVE difficulty back to how it was pre-One Tamriel.
Change the telvar gain from a PVP kill back to 80% instead of 50%.
Increase the drop rate for the skins & pet from Molag Bals simulcrum.
Increase the rewards for doing District quests.

Sorted.

Original IC was some of the most exciting gameplay in ESO for me. Once out of your base there was no safety.. the threat was ever present & there was actual loss incurred from a PVP death. The districts & sewers swarmed with hidden nightblades & you either had to stealth around or stay fully buffed & ready at all times. Fun times!

Okay, sure, make it so that absolutely no one will want to go there, except for the absolutely masochistic and the Hordes that stick together no matter what.

I think there's a reason why it recieved it's changes in the first place.

However, I wouldn't mind pre-One Tamriel PvE, increased drop rates and insreased rewards. At the very least, for the outside world it would be a change of pace.

DanteYoda · June 2018

Make IC into a pure PVE zone.

Tonnopesce wrote: »

DanteYoda wrote: »

If they make it pve i'd go there.. Until they do i wont go there, pretty simple.

Ok i can understand, but if you think there is a root problem in your statement, you queue in a PVP ZONE taking away spots from people who want to do pvp, to go in a pve zone...
Why cant we have both?
Pvp IC with less mobs ( only the bosses) a separate ap leaderboard and some tel var drops.
Pve IC with trial stile mobs or even harder (24 man group) with a tel var leaderboard.
Both with a separate queue from the overland.

I have never queued and i have no intention to ever, if i miss out on quests and soul shards so be it.

I hate PvP with a passion, its a toxic way to play a game imo.. I have no issues with people pvping or pveing the two should never ever in any way shape or form mix..

Its why i never went to the dark zone as well in the Division.. When developers learn these two aspects will never mix.. we'll get a great game.

Honestly adding pve content to a pvp area is like trying to mix water and oil.. it isn't going to happen.

JamieAubrey · June 2018

The problem is it keeps coming up in teh LFG finder

*Edit* Ignore my comment I read Imperial City PRISON instead of Problem

TheRealPotoroo · June 2018

Other

blacksghost wrote: »

I want to be able to do IC, really I do, the compeltionist in me demands I do it, but the pvp style hater in me just can’t cope with it. It’s a shame, like craglorn the concept has at its heart a flaw. Cyrodil as a region has some good pve content it’s just a shame it’s also got pvp. That said we pve’er do have a lot of safer content to play in.

In my ideal world the option to chose a solo instance for suitably adjusted rewards would be available. I don’t want alliancebpoints when I’m basically an alliance of one lone player.

This. PVE and PVP are two different games and I loath PVP utterly. All I want is a PVE only option so I can get in and do the quests. It's infuriating knowing I'll probably never get to finish all the PVE elements because of scumbags.

NewbieOKS · June 2018

Keep IC as PVP/PVE mix, but change the incentives so that people have a reason to be there.

Seems if I recalled from the promotional details, IC is a PvE/PvP area.
I agreed with the other comments that this area should be re-tweak

lillybit · June 2018

Keep IC as PVP/PVE mix, but change the incentives so that people have a reason to be there.

dem0n1k wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

So...In other words, turn it back in the PvP/Zergfest paradise it was. It's no wonder I never went back.

Sure, there will be zergs. Safety in numbers & all that jazz! I really don't see any way of preventing guilds/groups from forming big groups. All you can do is make the decision... fight or flight (stealth).

MrSensible wrote: »

Not to ignore the other parts of your post, but how would increasing the death penalty incentivize people to return to IC and disincentivize ganking (as mentioned in the OP). Or do you disagree that these two things are part of the reason for people to have left IC?

More rewards, more incentive to PVP! I see no reason to try & prevent ganking, it's part of the game.. nightblades are a class made for it! Either you embrace it or guard yourself against it. Even if there was no telvar gain in IC... there would still be nightblades.

Alls I'm saying is... the greater the threat of real loss.. the more exciting the gameplay is.

Maybe for you, but if that was true for everyone then IC wouldn't be deserted.

I'm bad at PVP and I'm fine with that. I enjoy it but I'm only ever going to be someone for gankers to pick off. In Cyrodiil that's not a problem, either someone will rez you or you can try somewhere else without the long ride across the map.

In IC it's confused. The rewards are all from PVE objectives, doing quests, killing bosses or whatever, but chances are someone will come along and gank you and you'll lose it. Unless you're a ganker there's very little in it for the majority of players.

The worst part is that there's crafting areas there that force PVEers to go there which is a nightmare all on it's own. Potentially long queue times just to get into Cyrodiil, then if you're not lucky enough for your faction to control any emperor keeps it's a long ride to the entrance - where you'll probably be ganked at the door. Then when you finally make it there's probably a ganker camped at the entrance to the crafting area. Even big voucher master writs aren't worth the agro most of the time.

Don't get me wrong, IC can be a lot of fun - I remember sneaking through the sewers with my clumsy Magplar to get those last few skyshards, at one point trailing right behind an enemy player doing the same who never knew I was there. I just don't think it works how it was intended.