The Imperial City Problem

MrSensible · June 2018

Who did they make this content for? It seems like an area designed for almost no one.

Now, granted, I didn't play it when it first came out. So I'm sure some people will pop in to drop some nostalgia bombs about how awesome it was "this one time". But I want to be a little more general here and talk about just the basic design of this zone.

So I ask, who is this zone designed for?

Is it for PvErs? No.

*Who would volunteer to be farmed like cattle with little to no benefit?
*You can easily waste 2 or 3 hours of your time and end up with no TV to show for it if you are unlucky.
*There's not a ton of great PvE rewards to gain.

Is it for PvPers? No.

*There is no one in the zone to PVP.
*A good fight can be found easier and faster in other ways. You can queue up for a BG and get a good fight in <1 minute. You can go to any keep in Cyrodiil and get a good siege fight.
*It's possible to wander around IC for 20-30 minutes without finding someone to fight.
*You get more alliance points from almost any other source.

Is it for the rare people who want a blend of PvP with PvE? Sort of (but not really).

*99% of the time, you don't get a real fight. You get ganked from the shadows while fighting a boss.
*If you are in a zerg, you will steamroll through the PvE content like a freight train.
*Dying in IC is more punishing than dying elsewhere.
*You can get a better experience from delves, because you are are more likely to get a fair fight (mobs are not as intrusive to combat).

Is it designed for gankers? Yeah, pretty much.

*No punishment for failing to gank someone.
*Huge reward for ganking someone.
*Ganking is easier than straight up fighting someone.

Personally, I don't think the blend of PVE and PVP is a problem. The real issue seems to be that gankers are highly incentivized, and playing any other way is punished. I think if ZoS solved the issue of misplaced incentives, you would see a return of people to IC. Personally, I likely won't be going back until something is changed. My PVP, PVE, and PVP/PVE needs are met better anywhere else on the map.

So, what should be done to fix The Imperial City problem?

MLGProPlayer · June 2018

It makes no sense since PvE and PvP use entirely different builds.

A PvEer won't be able to fight back against a PvPer since their divines/DoT-heavy build will not deal any damage to a PvPer while they themselves will die in 1-2 hits.

A PvPer likewise won't get a good fight out of these players as they'll go down faster than an overland mob.

it's silly content.

Hurtfan · June 2018

Other

For PvP it was a lot of fun when it was first released, but now it's a ghost town for the most part, for a few reasons.

MrSensible · June 2018

Keep IC as PVP/PVE mix, but change the incentives so that people have a reason to be there.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

It makes no sense since PvE and PvP use entirely different builds.

A PvEer won't be able to fight back against a PvPer since their divines/DoT-heavy build will not deal any damage to a PvPer while they themselves will die in 1-2 hits.

A PvPer likewise won't get a good fight out of these players as they'll go down faster than an overland mob.

This is actually a fantastic point which I forgot to include in my OP.

eso_nya · June 2018

Make IC into a pure PVE zone.

At release there was an incentive: It came with gear level increase and the mats didnt drop anywhere else.
The result was: It kicked of never ending complains from gankers about "zerging".

Imho, "forcing" ppl to grind content they hate is a bad idea and will eventually lead to them ruining it for everyone.

Looking at more recent history: Refilling battleground queues by putting an (goodlooking) outfitstyle in and integrating it into the f2p part of the game. Did smell like an attempt to get crafters/rpers/pvers/"carebares" in as feeders for the pvp ppl.
Forums filled with sload complains...who would have seen that one coming?

firedrgn · June 2018

I see to possiblity change to pve . Or change incentives. Probably remove the lose of telvar for players and u will see more people in there.

If the dailies gave a little better reward also would help.

firedrgn · June 2018

Its simply not worth the grind with gankers. I just dont want to spend the time in there tongrind telvar just to get ganked .

DenMoria · June 2018

Keep IC as PVP/PVE mix, but change the incentives so that people have a reason to be there.

Actually, I voted for a rebalance.
Anybody knows that I'm not a fan of PvP, but, honestly, the PvP options are rather lacking in ESO (IMO) and IC could be a great location for it. Yes, the ganking is annoying. Yes the zergs are annoying. Yes, the PvE rewards are less than stellar. And, yes, there aren't many there now, but, hey, a rebalance isn't a bad idea.

MrSensible wrote: »

Who did they make this content for? It seems like an area designed for almost no one.

Now, granted, I didn't play it when it first came out. So I'm sure some people will pop in to drop some nostalgia bombs about how awesome it was "this one time". But I want to be a little more general here and talk about just the basic design of this zone.

So I ask, who is this zone designed for?

Is it for PvErs? No.

*Who would volunteer to be farmed like cattle with little to no benefit?
*You can easily waste 2 or 3 hours of your time and end up with no TV to show for it if you are unlucky.
*There's not a ton of great PvE rewards to gain.

Is it for PvPers? No.

*There is no one in the zone to PVP.
*A good fight can be found easier and faster in other ways. You can queue up for a BG and get a good fight in <1 minute. You can go to any keep in Cyrodiil and get a good siege fight.
*It's possible to wander around IC for 20-30 minutes without finding someone to fight.
*You get more alliance points from almost any other source.

Is it for the rare people who want a blend of PvP with PvE? Sort of (but not really).

*99% of the time, you don't get a real fight. You get ganked from the shadows while fighting a boss.
*If you are in a zerg, you will steamroll through the PvE content like a freight train.
*Dying in IC is more punishing than dying elsewhere.
*You can get a better experience from delves, because you are are more likely to get a fair fight (mobs are not as intrusive to combat).

Is it designed for gankers? Yeah, pretty much.

*No punishment for failing to gank someone.
*Huge reward for ganking someone.
*Ganking is easier than straight up fighting someone.

Personally, I don't think the blend of PVE and PVP is a problem. The real issue seems to be that gankers are highly incentivized, and playing any other way is punished. I think if ZoS solved the issue of misplaced incentives, you would see a return of people to IC. Personally, I likely won't be going back until something is changed. My PVP, PVE, and PVP/PVE needs are met better anywhere else on the map.

So, what should be done to fix The Imperial City problem?

Soella · June 2018

Make IC into a pure PVE zone.

How hard is to create one "PVE" Campaign where both Cyrodiil and IC are PVE only and see if it will be popular? No AP gain, probably like 30% of telvar gain to balance with PvP zones. It is what has been asked for long time, and IMHO it is a cheap way to increase content for PVErs without affecting PvP.

generalmyrick · June 2018

Keep IC as PVP/PVE mix, but change the incentives so that people have a reason to be there.

i love it...just need better incentives...more reasons to be there.

guild traders
maybe the arena could be a real arena (whole lot of potential there)
idk, maybe realbuild it into a real city like the cities we have.

dem0n1k · June 2018

Keep IC as PVP/PVE mix, but change the incentives so that people have a reason to be there.

Change the PVE difficulty back to how it was pre-One Tamriel.
Change the telvar gain from a PVP kill back to 80% instead of 50%.
Increase the drop rate for the skins & pet from Molag Bals simulcrum.
Increase the rewards for doing District quests.

Sorted.

Original IC was some of the most exciting gameplay in ESO for me. Once out of your base there was no safety.. the threat was ever present & there was actual loss incurred from a PVP death. The districts & sewers swarmed with hidden nightblades & you either had to stealth around or stay fully buffed & ready at all times. Fun times!

DenMoria · June 2018

Keep IC as PVP/PVE mix, but change the incentives so that people have a reason to be there.

So...In other words, turn it back in the PvP/Zergfest paradise it was. It's no wonder I never went back.

dem0n1k wrote: »

Change the PVE difficulty back to how it was pre-One Tamriel.
Change the telvar gain from a PVP kill back to 80% instead of 50%.
Increase the drop rate for the skins & pet from Molag Bals simulcrum.
Increase the rewards for doing District quests.

Sorted.

Original IC was some of the most exciting gameplay in ESO for me. Once out of your base there was no safety.. the threat was ever present & there was actual loss incurred from a PVP death. The districts & sewers swarmed with hidden nightblades & you either had to stealth around or stay fully buffed & ready at all times. Fun times!

Wing · June 2018

Other

all it needs is its own instance separate from the normal overland queue, it should be its own separate thing.

-cyrodil
-battlegrounds
-IC

/fin

spencer2361 · June 2018

I’ve said it before, have the mobs have a small chance to drop crowns for a reward and people would go back

DenMoria · June 2018

Keep IC as PVP/PVE mix, but change the incentives so that people have a reason to be there.

This is true. I don't mind getting ganked, as long as I have a chance of some sort of reward!

spencer2361 wrote: »

I’ve said it before, have the mobs have a small chance to drop crowns for a reward and people would go back

DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER · June 2018

imperial city is fine leave it alone. also nice biased pool, its not empty. if you think imperial city is empty come PC EU where 20-40 man groups are running all day...its NEVER empty

MrSensible · June 2018

Keep IC as PVP/PVE mix, but change the incentives so that people have a reason to be there.

dem0n1k wrote: »

Change the PVE difficulty back to how it was pre-One Tamriel.
Change the telvar gain from a PVP kill back to 80% instead of 50%.
Increase the drop rate for the skins & pet from Molag Bals simulcrum.
Increase the rewards for doing District quests.

Not to ignore the other parts of your post, but how would increasing the death penalty incentivize people to return to IC and disincentivize ganking (as mentioned in the OP). Or do you disagree that these two things are part of the reason for people to have left IC?

Naughty_Ryder · June 2018

Make IC into a pure PVP zone.

I hit the wrong option

Gilvoth · June 2018

Keep IC as PVP/PVE mix, but change the incentives so that people have a reason to be there.

you want the sewers flooded? and people in the imperial city sewers?
heres how:

make it so every time people are caught breaking the law, they have to go to Prison, (no more allowed to get out by paying gold, yes you still have to pay a fine) and you must serve your entire sentence.
a Real Prison.
the only way out is through the sewers of imperial city, if you escape you are then Free to go, and considered paid justice.
(as long as you escape)

DenMoria · June 2018

Keep IC as PVP/PVE mix, but change the incentives so that people have a reason to be there.

The last thing I want is a flooding sewer. Ewwwww!!!

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

you want the sewers flooded? and people in the imperial city sewers?
heres how:

make it so every time people are caught breaking the law, they have to go to Prison, (no more allowed to get out by paying gold, yes you still have to pay a fine) and you must serve your entire sentence.
a Real Prison.
the only way out is through the sewers of imperial city, if you escape you are then Free to go, and considered paid justice.
(as long as you escape)

dem0n1k · June 2018

Keep IC as PVP/PVE mix, but change the incentives so that people have a reason to be there.

DenMoria wrote: »

So...In other words, turn it back in the PvP/Zergfest paradise it was. It's no wonder I never went back.

Sure, there will be zergs. Safety in numbers & all that jazz! I really don't see any way of preventing guilds/groups from forming big groups. All you can do is make the decision... fight or flight (stealth).

MrSensible wrote: »

Not to ignore the other parts of your post, but how would increasing the death penalty incentivize people to return to IC and disincentivize ganking (as mentioned in the OP). Or do you disagree that these two things are part of the reason for people to have left IC?

More rewards, more incentive to PVP! I see no reason to try & prevent ganking, it's part of the game.. nightblades are a class made for it! Either you embrace it or guard yourself against it. Even if there was no telvar gain in IC... there would still be nightblades.

Alls I'm saying is... the greater the threat of real loss.. the more exciting the gameplay is.

idk · June 2018

IC was a very busy are for a long time after it launched.

Like any new zone it slowed down drastically. That is merely all that happened.

In the end the OP and poll are kind or pointless. We all know it is currently a very slow area and that is all that the OP seems to be trying to point out, though in an incorrect manner.

Ackwalan · June 2018

It is for Pvpers that want to gank PvEers while they are stuck in dialogue with a NPC.

DenMoria · June 2018

Keep IC as PVP/PVE mix, but change the incentives so that people have a reason to be there.

I was right. This is all about the PvP, the PvP no PvE (to the tune of Megan Traynor's "Bass")

dem0n1k wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

So...In other words, turn it back in the PvP/Zergfest paradise it was. It's no wonder I never went back.

Sure, there will be zergs. Safety in numbers & all that jazz! I really don't see any way of preventing guilds/groups from forming big groups. All you can do is make the decision... fight or flight (stealth).

MrSensible wrote: »

Not to ignore the other parts of your post, but how would increasing the death penalty incentivize people to return to IC and disincentivize ganking (as mentioned in the OP). Or do you disagree that these two things are part of the reason for people to have left IC?

More rewards, more incentive to PVP! I see no reason to try & prevent ganking, it's part of the game.. nightblades are a class made for it! Either you embrace it or guard yourself against it. Even if there was no telvar gain in IC... there would still be nightblades.

Alls I'm saying is... the greater the threat of real loss.. the more exciting the gameplay is.

Swimguy · June 2018

Keep IC as PVP/PVE mix, but change the incentives so that people have a reason to be there.

honestly ganks in IC are bad, its the 15 man teams that run around and kill everyone that is annoying......

mb10 · June 2018

Make IC into a pure PVE zone.

Why would ZOS spend 30 seconds of thier time on this if it isnt going to fill their pockets up with money?

Will stay exactly how it is for the next 5 years.

Anastian · June 2018

Keep IC as PVP/PVE mix, but change the incentives so that people have a reason to be there.

IC is amazing. I love it and going there for the vibe, sometimes the fight and the tel-var farming is fun. The bosses are punishing and I even attempted to farm molag bal, however the incentives are rather low as it boils down to gold farming (Hakeijos).
I wish it was more fun, I love the PvPvE mix, and I'd really like to see more people in the sewers, fighting, moving around every turn without knowing what can happen, be it a boss or more players. I believe it's simply a matter of incentives, if it had 100 people per faction, the zone would be amazing.

generalmyrick · June 2018

Keep IC as PVP/PVE mix, but change the incentives so that people have a reason to be there.

dem0n1k wrote: »

Change the PVE difficulty back to how it was pre-One Tamriel.
Change the telvar gain from a PVP kill back to 80% instead of 50%.
Increase the drop rate for the skins & pet from Molag Bals simulcrum.
Increase the rewards for doing District quests.

Sorted.

Original IC was some of the most exciting gameplay in ESO for me. Once out of your base there was no safety.. the threat was ever present & there was actual loss incurred from a PVP death. The districts & sewers swarmed with hidden nightblades & you either had to stealth around or stay fully buffed & ready at all times. Fun times!

i love ic and didn't even go upstairs until they made the loss of tel var 50% :-)

Coggo · June 2018

Keep IC as PVP/PVE mix, but change the incentives so that people have a reason to be there.

I also love IC. Infact, I think it a masterpiece. It's doing the 3 year old DLC a disservice stating its empty or dead when it observably not. Compared to newer zones Hew's Bane, Gold Coast, even the majestic Wrothgar, are also shadows of their former glory. MMO content always has a shelf life, that's why I'm up for an IC reboot that is in the spirit of the original DLC: a high rewards vs high stakes PVP meets PVE blend.

Surragard · June 2018

Make IC into a pure PVE zone.

@MLGProPlayer Sums it up perfectly. I think it was designed to give something for players who were sad there were not PvP servers for the game as a whole. Problem is you’re just not geared properly as a PvE player to fight against PvP players.

GreenSoup2HoT · June 2018

Make IC into a pure PVP zone.

Let me take scrolls to the districts. That would be killer.

The Elder Scrolls Online

The Imperial City Problem

The Imperial City Problem 217 votes