Should ZOS adressing imbalances too slow be a point for ClassReps to be mentioned?

Derra · June 2018

It is my personal opinion that ZOS is adressing imbalances like SLOAD or RUNE CAGE introduced with summerset too slow. Some things can not wait 4 weeks or 3 months until your next update. They need to be adjusted immediately.
Should we as the pvp community implore the class representatives to take this as an issue that needs attention from the developers?
Quicker fixes for things breaking pvp?

IZZEFlameLash · June 2018

Yes.

Yes. So much yes. I mean, if it were some minor issues of imbalance, they can take their sweet time. But this is not the case. Some classes just have better toolkits than the others.

_Ahala_ · June 2018

Yes.

Buff Magden Plox

Waffennacht · June 2018

Should have a 2 week delay on Nerfs for console

Turelus · June 2018

I'm on a mix with this because something over performing whilst frustrating isn't a bug and doesn't need to be addressed in an incremental.

If we balance things every week and constantly tweak numbers you'll have a meta which changes even more rapidly and creation a situation where no one wants to invest in any sets or builds because they could change week to week.

I would be find with solid changes every three months with each big release, if we saw them in all areas every three months rather than doing things in chunks each update.

Derra · June 2018

Yes.

Turelus wrote: »

I'm on a mix with this because something over performing whilst frustrating isn't a bug and doesn't need to be addressed in an incremental.

If we balance things every week and constantly tweak numbers you'll have a meta which changes even more rapidly and creation a situation where no one wants to invest in any sets or builds because they could change week to week.

I would be find with solid changes every three months with each big release, if we saw them in all areas every three months rather than doing things in chunks each update.

I 100% agree with this and maybe i should have made it clearer in the topic.
I don´t want minor issues adressed every week - ideally i´d want the issues adressed on the PTS. Both sload and runecage were pointed out by prettymuch everyone in the community as huge issues.

So in my ideal world things like these wouldn´t make it out of the pts. If for some reason a major hiccup like sload or runecage occurs and makes it from pts to live this should be adressed quicker than with the next major update. IMO.

This is not about adressing minor inconveniences every week - it´s only about major concerns.

Thraben · June 2018

Derra wrote: »

It is my personal opinion that ZOS is adressing imbalances like SLOAD or RUNE CAGE introduced with summerset too slow. Some things can not wait 4 weeks or 3 months until your next update. They need to be adjusted immediately.
Should we as the pvp community implore the class representatives to take this as an issue that needs attention from the developers?
Quicker fixes for things breaking pvp?

The representatives have already urged Zeni to balance both quickly, if I remember correctly. Maybe @Checkmath can tell you more about what is possible and what is not.

I´m rather sceptical of calls for priority, though. Even now there are more urgent problems in PvP to fix, like the mass exploitation of the "open wall" bug, or this wierd bug where you run on one place unable to move (I get this 2-3 times an evening, most of the times during big battles).

Elsterchen · June 2018

Yes.

From a stamplars point of view... a year isn't what anyone would consider "a short time" . Yet, ZOS takes longer to even lay out a description of what they think templar-combat should be (direction).

Derra · June 2018

Yes.

Thraben wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

It is my personal opinion that ZOS is adressing imbalances like SLOAD or RUNE CAGE introduced with summerset too slow. Some things can not wait 4 weeks or 3 months until your next update. They need to be adjusted immediately.
Should we as the pvp community implore the class representatives to take this as an issue that needs attention from the developers?
Quicker fixes for things breaking pvp?

The representatives have already urged Zeni to balance both quickly, if I remember correctly. Maybe @Checkmath can tell you more about what is possible and what is not.

I´m rather sceptical of calls for priority, though. Even now there are more urgent problems in PvP to fix, like the mass exploitation of the "open wall" bug, or this wierd bug where you run on one place unable to move (I get this 2-3 times an evening, most of the times during big battles).

The two points brought up by you are both bugs - i´m personally of the opinion that we shouldn´t have to argue about those being priority fixes (and it´s sad that we probably have to).

This topic however concerns working as intended game mechanics that produce major issues for the majority of people experiencing them and produce undesireable (unfun) gameplay (mostly because they´re unbalanced).

I agree on mag warden + stamplar issues but these are also not the kind of changes i meant when creating this topic (mainly because they´re not onedimensional fixes but rather require complex work).

Checkmath · June 2018

Both sloads and rune cage were mentioned several times to the devs by the representatives. I know, that both actually would need some urgent treatment. But ZoS atm is very busy with the whole nect update and the priorities probably are on the whole update instead of those two things. Anyway they dont want to implement such changes without testing on the pts. So it doesnt matter how urgent something is, because mostly ZoS needs a lot of time for changes. Even if they would adress it right now, they would first put it on the pts next monday and a week after into the game the earliest. And that would be only possible, if they come up with a balanced idea right now.

Feanor · June 2018

Yes.

@Checkmath

Which brings us back to the PTS being a way of identifying only the most game breaking (in the real sense of the word) bugs and everything else just goes live as is.

Sload‘s, Rune Cage and Overload had pages written about, and not only nerf QQ, but actually very solid testing scenarios. The only thing ZOS did was saying combat balance isn’t going to happen with Update 18 because the focus was polishing the PvE content.

So, they want to test stuff on the PTS first but actually don’t do so - testing there is almost useless in regards to actual game changes (see: Templars since 2016). To me, the whole PTS process is a giant placebo so there is the notion of including players into the Q&A. We all know the reality, at least on the PvP side of things.

Checkmath · June 2018

You are right, the PTS seemed to be pretty unnecessary lately, because stuff like sloads and rune cage made it to the game like they were on the pts. I know that there was a lot of feedback about that. But that will change now too. The next meeting of the class reps with the devs is set around a week or two after pts with the next update drops. So basically we reps will again be highly active during that time to make sure, that the feedback concerning the changes on the pts will be given to the devs. So again like last meeting, your voice this time will surely reach the devs. I know that this wasnt the case or didnt seem so with summerset, mostly because the devs were really focused on the chapter rather than on balance. But as said, that will change now. I agree and i would be happy too if things like sloads would be treatened faster, but atm it is just the standard procedere, which inhibits ZoS to act faster.

Feanor · June 2018

Yes.

@Checkmath

I appreciate the work the reps put into this. Maybe you could also pass along that while actual changes are the ultimate goal, a better communication would help tremendously as well. I for one would be much more content if I knew there was a road map that gets updated and communicated and that let us see where the devs want the combat and the game to go.

The combat reports were a really good idea that sadly is on hiatus again. The picture I have at the moment is that the baffling reintroduction of proc damage sets for example was totally planned (aimed at lesser experienced players to feel powerful), but that ZOS only communicates if there is a wild fire that’s threatening to spread. Better communication would help so much.

Lord-Otto · June 2018

Yes.

Yup.
ZOS won't care, though. Can't put balance into Crown Store or Crown Crates.

arkansas_ESO · June 2018

Yes.

The same patch where they said they were forgoing further class balance changes (giving us things like the new Rune Cage) to focus on balancing the Psjic skillline and the new gear sets is the same patch where they introduced Sload's Sembalance, which was unchanged throughout the entire PTS cycle. I'm assuming all of their dev time this past PTS went towards implementing Crown Store gifting and daily login rewards, because it definitely wasn't spent on balancing.

BohnT · June 2018

Yes.

My biggest issue with the implementation of imbalances is that when they make it into the game they ruin it for a lot of players for a long period of time while when they wouldn't be implemented no one would have any disadvantage or maybe only a small portion of the playerbase has to deal with a weaker ability that isn't used much.

Best example is rune cage, even before the changes the ability was strong especially with meteor however master destro was just the better overall choice but instead of taking time to implement a balanced change to make the competition between the two playstyles better there are just unbalanced Bandaid fixes which often lead in imbalances in the past.

To sum it up i rather want no changes than even more imbalances in the game

Ragnaroek93 · June 2018

Yes.

Derra wrote: »

Some things can not wait 4 weeks or 3 months until your next update. They need to be adjusted immediately.

4 weeks - 3 months

BohnT · June 2018

Yes.

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

It is my personal opinion that ZOS is adressing imbalances like SLOAD or RUNE CAGE introduced with summerset too slow. Some things can not wait 4 weeks or 3 months until your next update. They need to be adjusted immediately.
Should we as the pvp community implore the class representatives to take this as an issue that needs attention from the developers?
Quicker fixes for things breaking pvp?

4 weeks - 3 months

How long did we have to deal with viper, selene, shieldbreaker or poisons etc.?

OdinForge · June 2018

Yes.

ZOS takes too long to make good changes, and they introduce bad changes at a faster rate. It feels like any given DLC or expansion is a complete hit or miss at this point. I might play a lot during one patch, and only sign in on the weekends to not get kicked from trade guilds the next if it's a patch like Summerset.

Solo PvP in Summerset is not fun enough to justify playing more than just a few hours on the weekend. Especially once it gets so laggy that everything you do has a permanent 30 second delay, and you're just constantly covered in Sloads.

TheYKcid · June 2018

Yes.

That awkward moment when there's only one "no" vote

Ragnaroek93 · June 2018

Yes.

BohnT wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

It is my personal opinion that ZOS is adressing imbalances like SLOAD or RUNE CAGE introduced with summerset too slow. Some things can not wait 4 weeks or 3 months until your next update. They need to be adjusted immediately.
Should we as the pvp community implore the class representatives to take this as an issue that needs attention from the developers?
Quicker fixes for things breaking pvp?

4 weeks - 3 months

How long did we have to deal with viper, selene, shieldbreaker or poisons etc.?

To be honest, I don't expect anything to be done at this point and I don't understand how people can still be constructive instead of starting to troll. First they let us discuss 100 pages to tell us afterwards that they don't care and only want to balance sets and the new skill line. And in the end they don't even do that. Seriously, the best internet troll can't compete with this

ak_pvp · June 2018

Yes.

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

It is my personal opinion that ZOS is adressing imbalances like SLOAD or RUNE CAGE introduced with summerset too slow. Some things can not wait 4 weeks or 3 months until your next update. They need to be adjusted immediately.
Should we as the pvp community implore the class representatives to take this as an issue that needs attention from the developers?
Quicker fixes for things breaking pvp?

4 weeks - 3 months

How long did we have to deal with viper, selene, shieldbreaker or poisons etc.?

To be honest, I don't expect anything to be done at this point and I don't understand how people can still be constructive instead of starting to troll. First they let us discuss 100 pages to tell us afterwards that they don't care and only want to balance sets and the new skill line. And in the end they don't even do that. Seriously, the best internet troll can't compete with this

I mean, they did "balance" the new PvE sets, and by that I mean make them a lot stronger than any old ones so they could get more sales post nerfing old sets. Especially since you can't get someone to craft the, for you.

Derra · June 2018

Yes.

ak_pvp wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

It is my personal opinion that ZOS is adressing imbalances like SLOAD or RUNE CAGE introduced with summerset too slow. Some things can not wait 4 weeks or 3 months until your next update. They need to be adjusted immediately.
Should we as the pvp community implore the class representatives to take this as an issue that needs attention from the developers?
Quicker fixes for things breaking pvp?

4 weeks - 3 months

How long did we have to deal with viper, selene, shieldbreaker or poisons etc.?

To be honest, I don't expect anything to be done at this point and I don't understand how people can still be constructive instead of starting to troll. First they let us discuss 100 pages to tell us afterwards that they don't care and only want to balance sets and the new skill line. And in the end they don't even do that. Seriously, the best internet troll can't compete with this

I mean, they did "balance" the new PvE sets, and by that I mean make them a lot stronger than any old ones so they could get more sales post nerfing old sets. Especially since you can't get someone to craft the, for you.

Why do you have to remind me that thy could rework the pve sets in one week but haven´t touched sload since summerset went hit the pts

AlexTheLion · June 2018

Yes.

The community seems to always be separated on a lot of issues, but at least with this everyone can agree.

idk · June 2018

So many questions that are so different . Which question does the poll actually relate to?

While any forum poll are statistically unreliable, some incorrectly use these polls to say the community has spoken. I can see OP or another saying this poll shows the player base wants class representative should bring this to Zos when the poll does not say jack.

rfennell_ESO · June 2018

Yes.

Derra wrote: »

It is my personal opinion that ZOS is adressing imbalances like SLOAD or RUNE CAGE introduced with summerset too slow. Some things can not wait 4 weeks or 3 months until your next update. They need to be adjusted immediately.
Should we as the pvp community implore the class representatives to take this as an issue that needs attention from the developers?
Quicker fixes for things breaking pvp?

It would be nice for ZOS to prioritize pvp game breaking issues via the class rep program quicker.

Problem is you are assuming that the pvp class reps aren't abusing every single one of the issues for personal gain and are unlikely (and by logic you could say are actively arguing against change) to do so.

Derra · June 2018

Yes.

idk wrote: »

So many questions that are so different . Which question does the poll actually relate to?

While any forum poll are statistically unreliable, some incorrectly use these polls to say the community has spoken. I can see OP or another saying this poll shows the player base wants class representative should bring this to Zos when the poll does not say jack.

By that logic any form of feedback does not say jack.

Gilvoth · June 2018

No.

the entire population of eso is NOT on this forum.
not everyone agrees with your opinions,
not everyone agrees with the class representatives opinions,
the class representatives opinions DO NOT match the opinions of the rest of eso population.

Preyfar · June 2018

Yes.

I feel ZOS should be able to tweak a single skill in between major updates. Doesn't have to be massive changes, but a small tweak here and there to nerf/buff a skill helps immensely. Especially for skills that need minor buffs.

Derra · June 2018

Yes.

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

the entire population of eso is NOT on this forum.
not everyone agrees with your opinions,
not everyone agrees with the class representatives opinions,
the class representatives opinions DO NOT match the opinions of the rest of eso population.

Then people who want their opinion to be heared should voice them?

Feanor · June 2018

Yes.

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

the entire population of eso is NOT on this forum.
not everyone agrees with your opinions,
not everyone agrees with the class representatives opinions,
the class representatives opinions DO NOT match the opinions of the rest of eso population.

With that attitude everything is futile and it’s just up to the devs if they change anything it not.

The Elder Scrolls Online

Should ZOS adressing imbalances too slow be a point for ClassReps to be mentioned?

Should ZOS adressing imbalances too slow be a point for ClassReps to be mentioned? 91 votes