fritzOSU03 wrote: »I know for a fact that you're using some of my work for free. Like I said at the beginning, a complete list of my add-ons can be found in my signature. You are free to remove them from your machine. Just be sure to give them a good look first so you know what they're doing for you.starkerealm wrote: »Pay you not to include a file that changes your title to "Master Wizard?" Yeah, right.
You all really should take some time to read the Add-On Terms. Here are some of the important parts which you agree to when you use the game.2. DISCLAIMERS
...YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT THE USE OF ADD-ONS IS AT YOUR SOLE RISK AND YOU ASSUME ALL RISKS ASSOCIATED ANY ADD-ONS ON YOUR MACHINE. ... YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT ENABLING AN ADD-ON CAN AFFECT AND/OR CAUSE YOUR COMPUTER, SOFTWARE, GAME, AND/OR ACCOUNT TO FUNCTION IMPROPERLY.
WITH RESPECT TO ANY ADD-ON THAT IS DOWNLOADED ON OR OVER THE INTERNET, YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE FILES FOR SUCH ADD-ONS MAY CONTAIN SPYWARE, MALWARE, VIRUSES OR OTHER MALICIOUS CODE THAT COULD AFFECT YOUR COMPUTER OR SYSTEM(S). ... USE OF THE INTERNET, INCLUDING THE DOWNLOAD OF FILES FROM THE INTERNET, IS AT YOUR SOLE RISK AND FILES SHOULD ONLY BE DOWNLOADED FROM SOURCES TRUSTED BY YOU.
3. ENTIRE AGREEMENT
Except as set forth in this Section, if there is any conflict between the Terms of Service, a EULA and any Supplemental Terms, You acknowledge and agree that, for the purposes of the Add-on Terms of Use, the terms and conditions shall govern in the following order of precedence: (i) Terms of Service; (ii) the applicable EULA; (iii) the Add-on Terms of Use; and (iv) the applicable Code of Conduct.
...AND FILES SHOULD ONLY BE DOWNLOADED FROM SOURCES TRUSTED BY YOU.
starkerealm wrote: »fritzOSU03 wrote: »I know for a fact that you're using some of my work for free. Like I said at the beginning, a complete list of my add-ons can be found in my signature. You are free to remove them from your machine. Just be sure to give them a good look first so you know what they're doing for you.starkerealm wrote: »Pay you not to include a file that changes your title to "Master Wizard?" Yeah, right.
You all really should take some time to read the Add-On Terms. Here are some of the important parts which you agree to when you use the game.2. DISCLAIMERS
...YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT THE USE OF ADD-ONS IS AT YOUR SOLE RISK AND YOU ASSUME ALL RISKS ASSOCIATED ANY ADD-ONS ON YOUR MACHINE. ... YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT ENABLING AN ADD-ON CAN AFFECT AND/OR CAUSE YOUR COMPUTER, SOFTWARE, GAME, AND/OR ACCOUNT TO FUNCTION IMPROPERLY.
WITH RESPECT TO ANY ADD-ON THAT IS DOWNLOADED ON OR OVER THE INTERNET, YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE FILES FOR SUCH ADD-ONS MAY CONTAIN SPYWARE, MALWARE, VIRUSES OR OTHER MALICIOUS CODE THAT COULD AFFECT YOUR COMPUTER OR SYSTEM(S). ... USE OF THE INTERNET, INCLUDING THE DOWNLOAD OF FILES FROM THE INTERNET, IS AT YOUR SOLE RISK AND FILES SHOULD ONLY BE DOWNLOADED FROM SOURCES TRUSTED BY YOU.
3. ENTIRE AGREEMENT
Except as set forth in this Section, if there is any conflict between the Terms of Service, a EULA and any Supplemental Terms, You acknowledge and agree that, for the purposes of the Add-on Terms of Use, the terms and conditions shall govern in the following order of precedence: (i) Terms of Service; (ii) the applicable EULA; (iii) the Add-on Terms of Use; and (iv) the applicable Code of Conduct.
Ironically, you've also pinpointed the issue here, even though you skirted right over it without a second thought. Let me pull that out again....AND FILES SHOULD ONLY BE DOWNLOADED FROM SOURCES TRUSTED BY YOU.
Adding in a library to give yourself a novelty title is a breach of trust. People trust you to deliver the addon that you defined, and not inject other, unknown, functionality into it for your own amusement. So, don't betray that trust.
That's my issue here. I'm offended, as a mod author. They are taking the audience's trust and abusing it for entirely trivial gains, "so they can have some fun."
You are asking someone to take your code and run it locally. Do not abuse their trust.
fritzOSU03 wrote: »First of all, I don't know who you think you are to presume what I do or do not know about the terms.
fritzOSU03 wrote: »I find it absolutely comical that you are so offended over a novelty title, something you've described as having "entirely trivial gains," that you believe it is a breach of trust. As I said before, I CAN deliberately inject functionality into MY CODE without declaring it and you are free to open it and read it over before using it so that you know what you're installing on your machine. Nobody is stopping you. As a matter of fact, that is your responsibility. You're also free to not use it at all if you can't bring yourself to trust the source. Personally, I find it offensive, as a developer that you think chasing add-on creators who've made huge contributions to the game with your figurative pitch fork is less detrimental to the community as a whole than a trivial piece of code that does no harm and has no malicious intent while each add-on still does exactly what it's supposed to do. But hey, you keep on trolling and I'm going to go back to enjoying the game.
Always wondered why noone who got pissed by it, stole the source code, put it in a standalone addon and publicly offered anyone who wanted a title. Thus make it opt-in/opt-out.
Always wondered why noone who got pissed by it, stole the source code, put it in a standalone addon and publicly offered anyone who wanted a title. Thus make it opt-in/opt-out.
NinetyNineTails wrote: »Always wondered why noone who got pissed by it, stole the source code, put it in a standalone addon and publicly offered anyone who wanted a title. Thus make it opt-in/opt-out.
No need to repay one unethical move with another. I think it's better to educate the userbase and post detailed guides on how to remove these update/title libs and other undocumented or malicious code. You don't need any special tools to edit ESO addons, just the knowledge and basic text editor.
Colecovision wrote: »I apologize. I have read the entire thread, but I still don't get it. It looks to me like there was something shoved in some ad-dons without us knowing, but the only function is to give add on makers cool titles. Nothing is being farmed or sent back. Is that correct?
Colecovision wrote: »I apologize. I have read the entire thread, but I still don't get it. It looks to me like there was something shoved in some ad-dons without us knowing, but the only function is to give add on makers cool titles. Nothing is being farmed or sent back. Is that correct?
Thanks op i just wanted to have a few addons that did as required not act like malware.. I'm not surprised to be honest..
Instead of this whole going back and forth why not try explaining HOW exactly addons can act as malware. I can be understanding to the reasoning that adding this trivial feature can be a breach of trust to some people but any arguments involving these addons being malware or containing malware are just nonsense.lordrichter wrote: »Ydrisselle wrote: »
Sure they can.
Instead of this whole going back and forth why not try explaining HOW exactly addons can act as malware. I can be understanding to the reasoning that adding this trivial feature can be a breach of trust to some people but any arguments involving these addons being malware or containing malware are just nonsense.
Yes, addons cannot send gold or items by mail without user confirmation.NinetyNineTails wrote: »Instead of this whole going back and forth why not try explaining HOW exactly addons can act as malware. I can be understanding to the reasoning that adding this trivial feature can be a breach of trust to some people but any arguments involving these addons being malware or containing malware are just nonsense.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/142073/do-not-use-updated-atlas-addon/p1
Can you guarantee that something like this won't happen again?
You know if even the idea of causing harm to other players comes to an addon developer's mind that's quite scary and for me completely breaks the trust.
Sorry if I make you even more paranoid, but it's not LibCustomTitles - it's everything.I'm paranoid enough to not download/update any addon from now on from any developer who has anything to do with libCustomTitles.
Better be on the safe side.
Yes, yes, we addon authors can do whatever we want. We're not forcing people to use our addons. Etc.
But just because we can doesn't mean that we should. I don't care about what we can do, but I care deeply about what we should do.
And I'll be honest here: I absolutely detest LibCustomTitles as a matter of principle. This library simply should not exist. It does not provide the user any benefit whatsoever and it alters functionality in the game unnecessarily and quietly. Is it malicious? No. But it is a breach of the implicit trust between users and addon devs, and I would never include that library in any of the addons that I write. It's a harmless breach of trust, to be sure, but still a breach.
It doesn't violate any rules per se, and it doesn't warrant any action from ZOS. But, again, there is a difference between "can" and "should". This is an matter of trust and principle. And it bothers me that so many in the addon dev community are dismissing this concern.
Pretty much.If custom titles is such a great feature, then why not let it stand on its own merits? Release it as a standalone addon and let people who want it go and actively choose to download it.
The only reason to include it as a library to be bundled with other addons is because they know that most people would never download such an addon, and they know that most people would not go through the trouble to opt-out.
Custom titles would be completely fine if it was opt-in. Instead, they choose to make it opt-out. It shouldn't be like that.
From the perspective of others the same could apply to the fuss around custom titles not being explicitly mentioned.I just don’t understand why make so much fuss