cpuScientist wrote: »Use immov pots wear heavy for immov skill make sure to build alot of stamina for break free
cpuScientist wrote: »Certain classes such as magDK rely fully on control and the ability to stun and root to fight. If people could not be stunned at all or be resistant for very long periods of time it would woefully unbalance the game. Thode dodgers and permablockers would rule as kings, classes that just load up on damage and are not built around the stuns would have distinct advantages. And dot classes or slower classes basically any mag class would be defunct.
MrSensible wrote: »So... what I'm getting from this conversation is that 1) You don't want your opponent to have an advantage (fair enough), even though they used the mechanics to achieve that advantage and 2) You want to have an advantage (fair enough), but you don't want your opponent to have any.
Sounds good to me.
That's a cool straw man, where'd ya get it?
Completely agree that stuns should be capped at 2 to possibly 3 seconds max. Especially considering the longer/unblockable CC's are on MagSorc and StamNB, classes that have the best innate burst ability in the game. My MagTemp has 33K spell and 29K Phys resist and wears Pirate but if a fight lasts more than 10-15 seconds against those two classes it's pretty much guaranteed I'll get hard CC'ed with no stam to break free and then the 4-5 second window of unblocked damage is enough to let even crappy players get an easy W.Peekachu99 wrote: »FoolishOptimist wrote: »How would you see this problem solved? You mention diminishing returns, could you flesh out this concept?
All stun durations should be shortened to 1-2s at most, for starters. Especially considering that they’re only viable and used in PVP. There also shouldn’t be a damage component associated with any hard stun, ever, since the stun is often what provides the kill and secondary damage will be coming anyway. CC should be an annoyance, not the sole reason you’re killed. Snares actually aren’t as bad and they already adjusted them. The damage on those should be lowered even more. Also CC immunity is still broken half the time so that’s not helping perception of these events.
For what it’s worth, you can still outheal and outtank BG CCs/ Sloads and damage, but I understand lots of people don’t like to play that defensively.
itscompton wrote: »Completely agree that stuns should be capped at 2 to possibly 3 seconds max. Especially considering the longer/unblockable CC's are on MagSorc and StamNB, classes that have the best innate burst ability in the game. My MagTemp has 33K spell and 29K Phys resist and wears Pirate but if a fight lasts more than 10-15 seconds against those two classes it's pretty much guaranteed I'll get hard CC'ed with no stam to break free and then the 4-5 second window of unblocked damage is enough to let even crappy players get an easy W.Peekachu99 wrote: »FoolishOptimist wrote: »How would you see this problem solved? You mention diminishing returns, could you flesh out this concept?
All stun durations should be shortened to 1-2s at most, for starters. Especially considering that they’re only viable and used in PVP. There also shouldn’t be a damage component associated with any hard stun, ever, since the stun is often what provides the kill and secondary damage will be coming anyway. CC should be an annoyance, not the sole reason you’re killed. Snares actually aren’t as bad and they already adjusted them. The damage on those should be lowered even more. Also CC immunity is still broken half the time so that’s not helping perception of these events.
For what it’s worth, you can still outheal and outtank BG CCs/ Sloads and damage, but I understand lots of people don’t like to play that defensively.
MrSensible wrote: »In the last battleground I played (approximately a 10 minute game) there was about a full minute of time where I wasn't stunned. Is there any way we could get this number down to 30 seconds or so? Actually, it would be great if I could just start the match with a debuff that persists and every 8 seconds it just stuns me regardless of whether or not I'm blocking, dodge rolling, or already stunned.
/EndSarcasm
Okay, but seriously, Battlegrounds are like 50% stuns. There's not a ton of strategy that happens during the matches. It's pretty much "stun then spam burst damage." If the person has the audacity to break free from your stun, you put up your shield for 3 seconds until the stun immunity is gone, and then you repeat the process. If it's a flag match, you do it on the flag. If it's a relic match, you do it on the relic carrier's face.
You can build for tankiness if you really want, but you'll be a dead weight to your team. You can build for ranged if you really want, but you'll likely get bursted down. Hard. You can build for magicka, or stam, or whatever. But the most effective strategy is 99 times out of 100 to stunlock the target until they're dead. The most effective players in all the battlegrounds I've played run this strategy. They hang out, pop a stun, then blow every last drop of stamina or magicka they have (some even use macros), then disappear into the shadows until they can do it again. It's also an incredibly effective way to melt through someone's stamina when they have to keep breaking free.
Stuns and knockbacks really need to have diminishing returns. The 3 seconds of stun immunity is simply not cutting it when a decent 4v4 flag fight can last 30 seconds.
It's really uninteresting. and makes battlegrounds not terribly compelling to play. The only thing that's worse right now is being killed by a helmet proc. But that's another thread.
#InB4LearnToBreakFree
#InB4LearnToBlock
#GitGouda
FoolishOptimist wrote: »How would you see this problem solved? You mention diminishing returns, could you flesh out this concept?
You must not play Mag characters often. As I said in my first post, if a fight lasts 10-15 seconds it's pretty easy to blow through 14K stamina blocking/breaking free/dodge rolling and after that stam is gone any stun is game over when up against a Magsorc or StamNB. I guarantee that if fear or rune lasted 2 seconds the amount of people that could burst me down while I was stunned would drop dramatically.itscompton wrote: »Completely agree that stuns should be capped at 2 to possibly 3 seconds max. Especially considering the longer/unblockable CC's are on MagSorc and StamNB, classes that have the best innate burst ability in the game. My MagTemp has 33K spell and 29K Phys resist and wears Pirate but if a fight lasts more than 10-15 seconds against those two classes it's pretty much guaranteed I'll get hard CC'ed with no stam to break free and then the 4-5 second window of unblocked damage is enough to let even crappy players get an easy W.Peekachu99 wrote: »FoolishOptimist wrote: »How would you see this problem solved? You mention diminishing returns, could you flesh out this concept?
All stun durations should be shortened to 1-2s at most, for starters. Especially considering that they’re only viable and used in PVP. There also shouldn’t be a damage component associated with any hard stun, ever, since the stun is often what provides the kill and secondary damage will be coming anyway. CC should be an annoyance, not the sole reason you’re killed. Snares actually aren’t as bad and they already adjusted them. The damage on those should be lowered even more. Also CC immunity is still broken half the time so that’s not helping perception of these events.
For what it’s worth, you can still outheal and outtank BG CCs/ Sloads and damage, but I understand lots of people don’t like to play that defensively.
Sure go ahead and cap the stun length, that will not change a dam thing. Stuns only last 1 GCD on anyone worth their salt. IF the stun is timed correctly that 1 GCD should be enough to kill most folks anyhow. The fix is to fix the immunity granted after break free, its super broke.
We already have diminishing returns via CC immunity. Stuns are at a great place right now, either use them or lose to them.
SaintSubwayy wrote: »If you get successfully stunned by an enemie player you should not be able to break free, unless you get purged by an ally.
MrSensible wrote: »There's not a ton of strategy that happens during the matches. It's pretty much "stun then spam burst damage."
Waffennacht wrote: »I disagree with OP
Edit:. Good players only die during a CC break. Only bad players actually experience a stun as good players will always CC break. Also why good players kill during CC break rather than expecting a stun to last
MrSensible wrote: »In the last battleground I played (approximately a 10 minute game) there was about a full minute of time where I wasn't stunned. Is there any way we could get this number down to 30 seconds or so? Actually, it would be great if I could just start the match with a debuff that persists and every 8 seconds it just stuns me regardless of whether or not I'm blocking, dodge rolling, or already stunned.
/EndSarcasm
Okay, but seriously, Battlegrounds are like 50% stuns. There's not a ton of strategy that happens during the matches. It's pretty much "stun then spam burst damage." If the person has the audacity to break free from your stun, you put up your shield for 3 seconds until the stun immunity is gone, and then you repeat the process. If it's a flag match, you do it on the flag. If it's a relic match, you do it on the relic carrier's face.
You can build for tankiness if you really want, but you'll be a dead weight to your team. You can build for ranged if you really want, but you'll likely get bursted down. Hard. You can build for magicka, or stam, or whatever. But the most effective strategy is 99 times out of 100 to stunlock the target until they're dead. The most effective players in all the battlegrounds I've played run this strategy. They hang out, pop a stun, then blow every last drop of stamina or magicka they have (some even use macros), then disappear into the shadows until they can do it again. It's also an incredibly effective way to melt through someone's stamina when they have to keep breaking free.
Stuns and knockbacks really need to have diminishing returns. The 3 seconds of stun immunity is simply not cutting it when a decent 4v4 flag fight can last 30 seconds.
It's really uninteresting. and makes battlegrounds not terribly compelling to play. The only thing that's worse right now is being killed by a helmet proc. But that's another thread.
#InB4LearnToBreakFree
#InB4LearnToBlock
#GitGouda