My level 8 friend says ESO is TOO easy

Ashtaris · June 2018

ADarklore wrote: »

Ashtaris wrote: »

AuldWolf wrote: »

And my imaginary friend says that the vocal hardcore minority need to stop being bad losers and flooding the forums with duplicate threads. I mean, seriously, can we stop with the #GamerGate-y tactics? This was polled, repeatedly, and the hardcore lost every single time. No matter how yer doctors of spin try to put a new take on it, it's still the same broken record repeating the same thing ad nauseum.

The moderators are likely getting sick of this and might start doling out temporary bans, soon. I mean, I wouldn't blame them. This is, what, the twelfth thread in the past fortnight?

There are other games out there which have what you want, ESO shouldn't commit financial suicide to suit your tastes.

- WildStar tried to appeal to you guys, dead on arrival;
- Guild Wars 2's expansion Heart of Thorns expansion tried to appeal to you guys, almost killed ArenaNet and they had to redesign the campaign to be more casual (along with apologising profusely);
- Champions Online tried to appeal to you guys, it's on life support;
- Battleborn ignored its casual audience and tried to appeal to you guys, it's on life support;
- ESO's Craglorn and Cadwell's Gold/Silver were miserable failures, leading to the current scaling system.

That last one bears repeating: ESO's Craglorn and Cadwell's Gold/Silver were miserable failures. ZOS tried this. They saw the impending doom. They ran away from the impending doom of financial suicide as fast as their legs would carry them. This battle has already been lost in ESO.

Please fight it somewhere else?

Thank you.

I’m not a hardcore player, mainly casual that enjoys doing some endgame content. I did start a new character on the EU server just to get back to basics again and see what it was like starting from scratch. And I will say that once you know the game and how the combat mechanics work, the overland content is too easy, especially now with the One Tamriel combat scaling. I can’t see where anyone should have an objection to adjustable scaling that can be done in the settings. Let people have the choice rather than just running around naked with no armor

Here is the problem... first, can you name another SUCCESSFUL MMO that allows difficulty settings? Second... with the current problems in the game, do you really think ESO can handle the extra millions of per-second processes that it would take to adjust scaling for every single character in the game?!? This would be a MAJOR undertaking and would either require ZOS to implement separate servers for each 'difficulty setting' or require much much faster processors to handle the added calculations. Do people not think of what would be involved in such a massive undertaking?!? They complain because ESO is laggy, crashes, etc... and yet want millions of extra processes added to the game. Imagine a group of players approaching a World Boss and suddenly the game has to calculate damage for every individual player's difficulty setting... I'd say it's impossible and that's probably why ZOS has never even addressed this issue even though it's been brought up far too many times.

Just because another MMO hasn’t done difficulty settings doesn’t mean it couldn’t be done, and I really don’t care what other MMO’s can or can’t do. And I would argue that the scaling has already been coded into the game with the low level combat scaling plus the scaling you get when you go into certain dungeon groups. So you are a bit over the top with your server doom and gloom.

Kuramas9tails · June 2018

ESOs PVE content is about the story not the challenge.

Rain_Greyraven · June 2018

The whine of it's too easy is almost as ridiculous as the whine of P2W.

After talking to a couple developers I also believe that 90% of post like the OPs is 100% unadulterated Horsesh** simply because it's more fun to play the forums for some people than it is the game.

DenMoria · June 2018

didn't they just adjust the difficulty on ESO not too long ago to scale with you as a character? I remember back in the day that there was so much of the game that a novice at this sort of thing just couldn't do. It seemed like 90% at the time.

Anybody remember that dern giant crab?

DaveMoeDee · June 2018

inclinations wrote: »

The current game is too easy at a low level, and in the end as you are reaching level 50 you feel your character become more and more weak.

I'm so glad I played through when the game was just released and it was a challenge. Gutstripper actually stipped my noobie guts. Doshia , mannimarco, molag bal were all much harder and it took me more than a few tries to advance. I was riveted by the content.

Now its just boring to level and feeling weaker makes me disinterested in playing the character/class I've leveled.

Yeah, Mannimarco kicked my but a few times at launch (3 characters).

JumpmanLane · June 2018

Tell him it’ll get REALLY hard in Vivec at level 10 and super hard at say level 40 or so in PvE once the game stops scaling to him.

Diminish · June 2018

Questing is suppose to be easy. Tell your friend to go solo Zandaadunoz the Reborn or some other world bosses, and then tell you how easy the game is. Questing is suppose to be easy mode. As he levels up he will soon see the whole picture. He just needs to get to a level where difficulty changes from "this boss may kill me after slapping me around a dozen times" to the "ZoS ran out of creativity to make hard content so they just made everything 1 shot you" difficulty.

Ozstryker · June 2018

OP... can we have an update on your "friends" opinion after he's done more than an hour of the starter zone?

"Friend"

josiahva · June 2018

Linaleah wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Everstorm wrote: »

Bonzodog01 wrote: »

This is a classic example of your average player in ESO, especially on console. Remember, console now accounts for 2/3 of the ESO playerbase.

You can't seriously believe this is an average player. A person that does no effort whatsoever to figure out the mechanics of the game should not be used as a baseline for difficulty. Else you can just as well remove all those mechanics.
And the fact that he made it to 600+ CP playing like this shows the difficulty is ridiculously low...

what it also shows that all those claims how much harder Skyrim is are blatantly false AND exaggerated. becasue this player? that is how they play SKYRIM.

and yes. difficulty like this SHOULD be used as baseline.

Skyrim is a single player game and therefore not comparable for the purpose of saying how an MMO should be.

It is very typical for single player games to have a difficulty setting whereas it is not common in MMORPGs open world content.

I'm aware. but more then ones I have seem people requesting higher difficulty - claim that Skyrim was hard and part of the reason why ESO is not a true ES game, becasue its that much easier.

and becasue ESO IS an MMO, difficulty should be scaled to be as accesible as possible, at least in overworld/quest content. which is why we DO have 3 difficulty settings for dungeon and trial content ALREADY. and I'm totally cool if that sort of difficulty setting is expanded to more instanced content, including solo quests. but baseline difficulty HAS to remain what it is right now.

the so-called good old days of release ESO didn't go so well for ESO, or it wouldn't be changed into what it is right now.

What? Skyrim was just as faceroll easy as ESO's overland content....except the whole game was that way instead of just most of it.

Inhuman003 · June 2018

I think it's time for a new hard zone and join in on dungeons when he reached level 50. I would love to see his reaction to Veteran Dungeons and Hard Mode no no no Veteran Normal Mode let simmer it a bit.

Merlin13KAGL · June 2018

Just had an epiphany.

Why not let the game set the difficulty (initially) based on a mini-gauntlet the player optionally runs through when first exiting the tutorial.

It could have increasing layers of difficulty, and when you die, your 'base difficulty' for that character is set unless you manually change it?

This would allow players the option of modes relevant to their skill and experience, across the board.

Leaderboard stuff, of course, would have to be Medium (current norm) level difficulty or higher to count.

This would help to identify players that clearly have some background, and even give a little boost to those that have a harder time.

Dragonnord · June 2018

This is a TROLL thread guys! Come on! How can you possibly believe a Level 8 is complaining when a Level 8 has probably 8 minutes playing the game? Am I the only one here that doesn't believe this thread and it's just the OP trying to trigger and get attention for what HE thinks the game is (not a made up non-existent Level 8 friend)?

How can a Level 8 say "lacks engagement and doesn't require skill" when he played the game for less than 10 minutes?

OP, you should have chosen a higher level for your non-existent friend. Maybe, just maybe we would have believed you that way.

Obvious troll thread.

Pwnyridah · June 2018

Overland content is not endgame.... Tell your nooblet to level up and do vet hardmodes.

Strider__Roshin · June 2018

When I first started this game I used to find enjoyment doing overland content that was 20 levels above me. I was getting crap for experience, but I still found it fun. When I hit VR1 I had a ton of fun soloing craglorn. When they first launched imperial city I used to live in those sewers; had some of the most PvP fun back then too. And boy did my friends and I feel accomplished doing vWGT when it first launched. But now PvE content has been nerfed to the ground, and PvP is littered with no counterplay abilities and proc sets; not to mention the snares.

Thinking back makes me yearn for the past, and it saddens me to see how much skill has been removed from the game. If I were just starting now rather than back then this game probably wouldn't hold my interest for long. Thankfully whenever they come out with new dungeons they're usually pretty entertaining, and I can finally get consistent small scale PvP via battlegrounds (just wish they got rid of that stupid sigil). But to be honest I like challenging content, and it's there but it just takes forever to get to that point where you can actually do it.

Unfortunately if an individual such as myself were to try this game today they would end up quitting the game due to sheer boredom. I like to feel accomplished when I win; I don't like victory handed to me.

Jurand80 · June 2018

OP
Tell him to play quake for the challenge and eso for the story.

ol_BANK_lo · June 2018

Ravingar wrote: »

So I finally got my mate to play the game and he's complaining to me that it's too easy, lacks engagement and doesn't require skill. And it makes sense.

When your low level you have these obsurd stats which make it easy, and this combined with easy overland content. It can just be boring.

It's a real issue that all the good and challenging content in ESO is locked behind levels and requires you to be the 'best'. And there's barely anything for the new players to challenge themself (damn you One Tamriel). It's why we get new players but not many of them actually stay.

I mean come on ZOS, now vets AND newbies are complaining about how easy overland content is. Who's this content actually appealing to anymore?

**What do the forums think?**

I don't think this forum post is even necessary. What do you expect to gain? ZOS to change the difficulty of their entire game structure? ZOS has way more info than you do. They know how people play the game; they know how difficult or easy it is for people. They like the balance. So, either your friend needs to try more difficult content than what's available at level 8, or he needs to find a new game. He hasn't tried PVP, HM trials or vMA. If he can beat all of that easily, and still says he's bored, then find a new game. Are you seriously opening a forum based on a level 8 who is battle leveled?

I beat normal maelstrom on my level 6 with training gear and no enchantments - no death. It's not hard content. There are people who struggle and are proud to beat it. There are people like LZH who has the best scores in the game for vMA and is asking to add another difficulty level. Then there are people who take a year to beat it...or never can. There are people who going for HM/no death/speed run achievements in trials, while a large majority of the population can't beat a veteran trial at all.

Again, I don't see the point in bringing up this topic based on your friend's level 8 toon. There are thousands of games. If he plays at the highest level and still doesn't like it. Move on. Don't even tell us about it.

DenMoria · June 2018

And, frankly, if your friend CAN do all of that at level 8, easily and without challenge, he/she is a God and we should all bow down and worship him/her and nominate him/her for Gamer of the Year. He/she should teach classes. Just amazing, absolutely AMAZING!

BANK_IT_HERE wrote: »

Ravingar wrote: »

So I finally got my mate to play the game and he's complaining to me that it's too easy, lacks engagement and doesn't require skill. And it makes sense.

When your low level you have these obsurd stats which make it easy, and this combined with easy overland content. It can just be boring.

It's a real issue that all the good and challenging content in ESO is locked behind levels and requires you to be the 'best'. And there's barely anything for the new players to challenge themself (damn you One Tamriel). It's why we get new players but not many of them actually stay.

I mean come on ZOS, now vets AND newbies are complaining about how easy overland content is. Who's this content actually appealing to anymore?

**What do the forums think?**

I don't think this forum post is even necessary. What do you expect to gain? ZOS to change the difficulty of their entire game structure? ZOS has way more info than you do. They know how people play the game; they know how difficult or easy it is for people. They like the balance. So, either your friend needs to try more difficult content than what's available at level 8, or he needs to find a new game. He hasn't tried PVP, HM trials or vMA. If he can beat all of that easily, and still says he's bored, then find a new game. Are you seriously opening a forum based on a level 8 who is battle leveled?

I beat normal maelstrom on my level 6 with training gear and no enchantments - no death. It's not hard content. There are people who struggle and are proud to beat it. There are people like LZH who has the best scores in the game for vMA and is asking to add another difficulty level. Then there are people who take a year to beat it...or never can. There are people who going for HM/no death/speed run achievements in trials, while a large majority of the population can't beat a veteran trial at all.

Again, I don't see the point in bringing up this topic based on your friend's level 8 toon. There are thousands of games. If he plays at the highest level and still doesn't like it. Move on. Don't even tell us about it.

Linaleah · June 2018

josiahva wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Everstorm wrote: »

Bonzodog01 wrote: »

This is a classic example of your average player in ESO, especially on console. Remember, console now accounts for 2/3 of the ESO playerbase.

You can't seriously believe this is an average player. A person that does no effort whatsoever to figure out the mechanics of the game should not be used as a baseline for difficulty. Else you can just as well remove all those mechanics.
And the fact that he made it to 600+ CP playing like this shows the difficulty is ridiculously low...

what it also shows that all those claims how much harder Skyrim is are blatantly false AND exaggerated. becasue this player? that is how they play SKYRIM.

and yes. difficulty like this SHOULD be used as baseline.

Skyrim is a single player game and therefore not comparable for the purpose of saying how an MMO should be.

It is very typical for single player games to have a difficulty setting whereas it is not common in MMORPGs open world content.

I'm aware. but more then ones I have seem people requesting higher difficulty - claim that Skyrim was hard and part of the reason why ESO is not a true ES game, becasue its that much easier.

and becasue ESO IS an MMO, difficulty should be scaled to be as accesible as possible, at least in overworld/quest content. which is why we DO have 3 difficulty settings for dungeon and trial content ALREADY. and I'm totally cool if that sort of difficulty setting is expanded to more instanced content, including solo quests. but baseline difficulty HAS to remain what it is right now.

the so-called good old days of release ESO didn't go so well for ESO, or it wouldn't be changed into what it is right now.

What? Skyrim was just as faceroll easy as ESO's overland content....except the whole game was that way instead of just most of it.

yes. yes it was. which is why its hilarious when people claim that it wasn't and its just ESO that is so easy.

Agenericname · June 2018

Ravingar wrote: »

So I finally got my mate to play the game and he's complaining to me that it's too easy, lacks engagement and doesn't require skill. And it makes sense.

When your low level you have these obsurd stats which make it easy, and this combined with easy overland content. It can just be boring.

It's a real issue that all the good and challenging content in ESO is locked behind levels and requires you to be the 'best'. And there's barely anything for the new players to challenge themself (damn you One Tamriel). It's why we get new players but not many of them actually stay.

I mean come on ZOS, now vets AND newbies are complaining about how easy overland content is. Who's this content actually appealing to anymore?

**What do the forums think?**

I think that your level 8 friend doesn't truly have enough game time in ESO to form an objective opinion yet.

I'm not a hardcore player, however, I do find much of the overland content to be easy. Some find it more difficult. As long as challenging content exists in such a quantity that I'm not bored, I see no real reason to tailor the game to my level of difficulty.

The weapon swap and limited skills available on bars was something that I found particularly counter-intuitive at first. The standard binding of the weapon swap to the tilde key resulted in almost as many usages of the escape key in combat as trying to "take all" resulted in solar prisons over dead enemies.

The controls felt very clumsy to me, probably due to playing other MMOs. Once I figured that out the game become much easier, even with no CP, crafted sets, etc. Having unrealistic expectations or preconceived ideas of how a game should work are mistakes on my part, but I suspect that ZOS took issues like that into consideration when they decided to set the difficulty of overland contemt.

I do think that some overland content could be tweaked without the bifurcated extremes losing their minds, but I'm glad there's a buffer there.

Linaleah · June 2018

ADarklore wrote: »

Ashtaris wrote: »

AuldWolf wrote: »

And my imaginary friend says that the vocal hardcore minority need to stop being bad losers and flooding the forums with duplicate threads. I mean, seriously, can we stop with the #GamerGate-y tactics? This was polled, repeatedly, and the hardcore lost every single time. No matter how yer doctors of spin try to put a new take on it, it's still the same broken record repeating the same thing ad nauseum.

The moderators are likely getting sick of this and might start doling out temporary bans, soon. I mean, I wouldn't blame them. This is, what, the twelfth thread in the past fortnight?

There are other games out there which have what you want, ESO shouldn't commit financial suicide to suit your tastes.

- WildStar tried to appeal to you guys, dead on arrival;
- Guild Wars 2's expansion Heart of Thorns expansion tried to appeal to you guys, almost killed ArenaNet and they had to redesign the campaign to be more casual (along with apologising profusely);
- Champions Online tried to appeal to you guys, it's on life support;
- Battleborn ignored its casual audience and tried to appeal to you guys, it's on life support;
- ESO's Craglorn and Cadwell's Gold/Silver were miserable failures, leading to the current scaling system.

That last one bears repeating: ESO's Craglorn and Cadwell's Gold/Silver were miserable failures. ZOS tried this. They saw the impending doom. They ran away from the impending doom of financial suicide as fast as their legs would carry them. This battle has already been lost in ESO.

Please fight it somewhere else?

Thank you.

I’m not a hardcore player, mainly casual that enjoys doing some endgame content. I did start a new character on the EU server just to get back to basics again and see what it was like starting from scratch. And I will say that once you know the game and how the combat mechanics work, the overland content is too easy, especially now with the One Tamriel combat scaling. I can’t see where anyone should have an objection to adjustable scaling that can be done in the settings. Let people have the choice rather than just running around naked with no armor

Here is the problem... first, can you name another SUCCESSFUL MMO that allows difficulty settings? Second... with the current problems in the game, do you really think ESO can handle the extra millions of per-second processes that it would take to adjust scaling for every single character in the game?!? This would be a MAJOR undertaking and would either require ZOS to implement separate servers for each 'difficulty setting' or require much much faster processors to handle the added calculations. Do people not think of what would be involved in such a massive undertaking?!? They complain because ESO is laggy, crashes, etc... and yet want millions of extra processes added to the game. Imagine a group of players approaching a World Boss and suddenly the game has to calculate damage for every individual player's difficulty setting... I'd say it's impossible and that's probably why ZOS has never even addressed this issue even though it's been brought up far too many times.

all valid points. however, what the game CAN do is scale difficulty of instanced content. its already IN game. people who want harder will just have to content with more rather then all the content having scaled difficulty. anything that you have to zone in to, can have a selector added to it, not unlike zoning into 4 man dungeons right now.

over-world stays the same. delves and instanced quests - get an option to select higher difficulty. its the only compromise that is fairly simple to implement and will not negatively impact people who enjoy current difficulty, while giving some options to people who would like challenge.

karekiz · June 2018

Make a lower level character
Don't use max CP
Take him into normal DLC dungeons duo
Watch him L2Block Heavy attacks

kylewwefan · June 2018

Wait til your about level 40 or so and completely underpowered and ill equipped to deal with things that were so easy not long ago. And then vet. Now your character is complete poo, until you get to CP500 or so.

Ragnork · June 2018

AuldWolf wrote: »

#snip

- WildStar tried to appeal to you guys, dead on arrival;
- Guild Wars 2's expansion Heart of Thorns expansion tried to appeal to you guys, almost killed ArenaNet and they had to redesign the campaign to be more casual (along with apologising profusely);
- Champions Online tried to appeal to you guys, it's on life support;
- Battleborn ignored its casual audience and tried to appeal to you guys, it's on life support;
- ESO's Craglorn and Cadwell's Gold/Silver were miserable failures, leading to the current scaling system.

That last one bears repeating: ESO's Craglorn and Cadwell's Gold/Silver were miserable failures. ZOS tried this. They saw the impending doom. They ran away from the impending doom of financial suicide as fast as their legs would carry them. This battle has already been lost in ESO.

Please fight it somewhere else?

Thank you.

Agree
Awesome
Insightful

I had to select agree - but from myself you get all three.

Datthaw · June 2018

I think people forgot how video games are supposed to be challenging, if you want a low stress casual experience maybe pick up the Sims or something. But I miss an actual challenge in overland.

DenMoria · June 2018

Since when are video-games supposed to be challenging? I've been playing for 40 years now and have never done it for a "challenge". I had kids, am married, have a job, friends, a life, in other words. Video-games are entertainment, not a "challenge". You want a "challenge", join the military.

Datthaw wrote: »

I think people forgot how video games are supposed to be challenging, if you want a low stress casual experience maybe pick up the Sims or something. But I miss an actual challenge in overland.

Merlin13KAGL · June 2018

And for the record, Cadwell's Silver/Gold didn't fail because of difficulty. It failed because of linearity.

People wanted access in the order they chose. Difficulty had nothing to do with it - that was ZoS's quick fix to simplify it on their end.

Datthaw · June 2018

DenMoria wrote: »

Since when are video-games supposed to be challenging? I've been playing for 40 years now and have never done it for a "challenge". I had kids, am married, have a job, friends, a life, in other words. Video-games are entertainment, not a "challenge". You want a "challenge", join the military.

Datthaw wrote: »

I think people forgot how video games are supposed to be challenging, if you want a low stress casual experience maybe pick up the Sims or something. But I miss an actual challenge in overland.

Pretty much every video game since *** history attempts to challenge the player. And get off your high horse "I have a life" argument. I have kids, a wife, friends, and a job also, I still want a challenge. Overland is too easy, maybe you should go play the sims?

Juju_beans · June 2018

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

ESOs PVE content is about the story not the challenge.

I agree. The stories are engaging and there's enough challenge to keep you on your toes while leveling.

Ragnork · June 2018

# snip

DenMoria · June 2018

Oh quit. I'm just kidding. Of course every game has some element of challenge. Even SIMS has a challenge to it (sort of). I'm just saying that Beth changed the whole scale of things a while back to accommodate everyone. Difficulty scales with level now and Lord knows some of the Veteran and end game stuff will humble just about anybody who isn't prepared.
Yes, real life is a challenge, but at least in a video game, you can turn it off when it gets too frustrating!

Datthaw wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

Since when are video-games supposed to be challenging? I've been playing for 40 years now and have never done it for a "challenge". I had kids, am married, have a job, friends, a life, in other words. Video-games are entertainment, not a "challenge". You want a "challenge", join the military.

Datthaw wrote: »

I think people forgot how video games are supposed to be challenging, if you want a low stress casual experience maybe pick up the Sims or something. But I miss an actual challenge in overland.

Pretty much every video game since *** history attempts to challenge the player. And get off your high horse "I have a life" argument. I have kids, a wife, friends, and a job also, I still want a challenge. Overland is too easy, maybe you should go play the sims?