Since day one people have said this, as is, the most useless passive in game

It's a no brainer. Do it.

Also people talk about balance like it's a thing

But then I'll be obligated to put points into it. My stash of suicide potions will be rendered useless

Tonturri wrote: »

Streega wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

Reducing the effect of alchemical poisons applied to a character should NOT depend on a crafting passive. Period.

Considering alchemy increases your knowledge about poisons (so also antidotes/countermeasures) it makes perfect sense.

It also makes perfect sense for someone to instantly die if I drop a meteor on them. A fricken METEOR. But they can just hold up their staff across their bodies (or do a cool 'X' if DW) and they're okay.

Makes sense, yes. Nobody is arguing about how things function IRL, but not only should IRL certainly not be the basis for game balance, we're talking about game balance itself.

So. Makes sense, yes. Good design decision, likely not.

You do realise we are speaking about fictional skill here?... In a fictional world where you can revive dead, and create insta-healing potions?

Streega wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

Streega wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

Reducing the effect of alchemical poisons applied to a character should NOT depend on a crafting passive. Period.

Considering alchemy increases your knowledge about poisons (so also antidotes/countermeasures) it makes perfect sense.

It also makes perfect sense for someone to instantly die if I drop a meteor on them. A fricken METEOR. But they can just hold up their staff across their bodies (or do a cool 'X' if DW) and they're okay.

Makes sense, yes. Nobody is arguing about how things function IRL, but not only should IRL certainly not be the basis for game balance, we're talking about game balance itself.

So. Makes sense, yes. Good design decision, likely not.

You do realise we are speaking about fictional skill here?... In a fictional world where you can revive dead, and create insta-healing potions?

No mention of the spontaneous generation of trans-dimensional portals?

paulsimonps wrote: »

Not sure about it, I get that its a useless passive, like massively useless. However, its also a super easy thing to get, and everyone and their dog would get it if it was changed to what is proposed, which in turn would become a nerf to any and all poisons. Of course to some that seems like a great idea, but whether or not its a good idea to nerf potions in a way that makes the under leveled still feel the full force of it is up to the math people in the combat team. Personally I would just redesign the passive to something entirely different, most likely is that nothing will happen and it remains useless.

Or introduce potions that have a higher advantage when combined with a negative effect. Like the mag return is higher because you lose some health, then the passive would be useful by reducing the health loss. Wouldn't change anything about pre existing potions

While that would not only make sense but also potentially be a quick/easy fix to poisons there should be a better option. That would make alchemy a must have on any character, I would prefer a blanket percentage nerf to cost poisons and a blanket decrease in the damage they deal. There needs to be a give and take when debating whether or not you want to run a poison or an enchant. I did answer yes just for the ease of application it would have but they need looked into further than just turning a passive into a counter.

Your basically asking for a straight up nerf to poisons. I dont think that is the correct way to deal with them. @Maryal pretty much summed up my thoughts.

Waffennacht wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Not sure about it, I get that its a useless passive, like massively useless. However, its also a super easy thing to get, and everyone and their dog would get it if it was changed to what is proposed, which in turn would become a nerf to any and all poisons. Of course to some that seems like a great idea, but whether or not its a good idea to nerf potions in a way that makes the under leveled still feel the full force of it is up to the math people in the combat team. Personally I would just redesign the passive to something entirely different, most likely is that nothing will happen and it remains useless.

Or introduce potions that have a higher advantage when combined with a negative effect. Like the mag return is higher because you lose some health, then the passive would be useful by reducing the health loss. Wouldn't change anything about pre existing potions

I find your idea funny because your basically saying that if i stab you with a poisoned dagger, im gonna cut my self a little too cuz of the negative effect. Its like that movie where the guy licks his own poisonous dsgger after explaining how deadly it was, then dies after saying i probably shouldnt have licked that.

Honestly at this point they could change the passive to make so with 1 point every NPC speaks to you in PIG Latin, and it would be about as useful.

I think the skill just needs to go away completely Just pull it from the line. No need to replace it, and most likely you wouldnt have to refund ANY skill points to Anyone, except the few that did it to be edgey, or read it wrong.

.

Waffennacht wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Your basically asking for a straight up nerf to poisons. I dont think that is the correct way to deal with them. @Maryal pretty much summed up my thoughts.

Waffennacht wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Not sure about it, I get that its a useless passive, like massively useless. However, its also a super easy thing to get, and everyone and their dog would get it if it was changed to what is proposed, which in turn would become a nerf to any and all poisons. Of course to some that seems like a great idea, but whether or not its a good idea to nerf potions in a way that makes the under leveled still feel the full force of it is up to the math people in the combat team. Personally I would just redesign the passive to something entirely different, most likely is that nothing will happen and it remains useless.

Or introduce potions that have a higher advantage when combined with a negative effect. Like the mag return is higher because you lose some health, then the passive would be useful by reducing the health loss. Wouldn't change anything about pre existing potions

I find your idea funny because your basically saying that if i stab you with a poisoned dagger, im gonna cut my self a little too cuz of the negative effect. Its like that movie where the guy licks his own poisonous dsgger after explaining how deadly it was, then dies after saying i probably shouldnt have licked that.

I'm confused by your statement (though I'm always happy to get a chuckle!)

The snakeblood passive (or wuteva) already does reduce the negative effect of potions. (Not poisons - like you say about the dagger)

But the problem is... Why the heck would you make any potions with a negative effect? There's nothing but good potions that exist without any negatives.

So there needs to be a benefit to having a negative effect associated with a Potion (again not poison) to make it worth while to even use a potion with a negative effect.

THEN once there is value for a potion with a negative effect, there's value to having the passive.

As is, because there's 0 reason to create a Potion with a negative effect, there's 0 reason for the passive.

My idea changes that without changing anything that already exists

As I said previously, some 'first choice' ingredients for potions are very rare, difficult to farm sufficient quantity, especially if that ingredient is used to make more than one type of 'very needed' potion. (note: 'first choice' ingredients result in potions with no negative effects). When you need to make a sizeable batch of a certain type of potion(s) but have only a few of these rare, 'first choice' ingredients on hand, you can see if a guild vendor has any for sale (which isn't always the case, even after checking several guild vendors). When a guild vendor happens to have the ingredient for sale, sometimes they only have 1 or 2. Once in a while someone lists the ingredient for sale in 'quantity' but at an obscenely high price (much more than I can afford).

But, there is another option - you can use a 'second choice' ingredient as a substitute - it will allow you to make a potion with the benefits you really need, but will come with a negative side effect as well. Not a problem if you have the Snakes Blood passive maxed out - it negates the negative effects of any potion you consume.

I hope this explains why someone would make potions with a negative side effect and the usefulness of the Snakes Blood passive.


Oh, as far as Snakes Blood negating or reducing the effects of alchemical poisons applied to you, I don't think that's a good idea, because everyone would get the passive, which, in effect, would nerf all alchemical poisons across the board without any 'give or take'. Maybe they should change the CP passive 'befoul' to one that reduces alchemical poisons applied to you instead.

And, one more thing - let's not forget that some alchemical poisons you apply to enemies simultaneously give you benefits - such as 'escapists poison' (for example). Any skill, ability, passive, whatever that reduces the negative effects of alchemical poisons will likely be a 2-way street (reducing positive benefits you receive when applying alchemical poisons to enemies).