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why so much hate for mag sorcs?
JJBoomer
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I see so many threads complaining about how OP mag sorcs are. But more often than not, those threads seem to just want mag sorcs to have nothing to make them easy kills in PVP, something that shouldn't affect PVE, but that's another issue. From my perspective, all the "nerf mag sorcs" just seem to be people asking for their class to be better, so make something else easier to kill? It rarely actually seems to be for balance's sake.
Can someone explain this to me? This is the only game i've ever played where i've seen people BEG for nerfing lol.
Can someone explain this to me? This is the only game i've ever played where i've seen people BEG for nerfing lol.
28
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zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Noobs complains about anybody who kills them in PvP or manage to run away then their zerg is chasing them.
Sorcerer has gotten multiple nerfs and is not so impressive anymore but is still an high utility class.
Nerf sorcerer pretty much an forum meme nowGrinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.21 -
WaltherCarraway✭✭✭✭✭
PvP is the main reason why everyone can't have fun here.Edited by WaltherCarraway on June 10, 2018 9:21PMBack from my last hiatus. 2021 a new start.24 -
Kikke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WaltherCarraway wrote: »
PvP is the main reason why everyone can't have fun here.
lol?Cleared Trials:
- vAA HM - vHRC HM - vSO HM - vMoL HM - vHoF HM - vAS HM - vCR HM -
"The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step, and a lot of bitching."
-Someone said it, I guess.28 -
WaltherCarraway✭✭✭✭✭WaltherCarraway wrote: »
PvP is the main reason why everyone can't have fun here.
lol?
what's your input?
Back from my last hiatus. 2021 a new start.6 -
Ankael07✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Mag sorcerer is a good pug killer class. It has good burst but its easily visible and predictable (Curse's 3.5 seconds timer and CF being visible in your hands).
You can also bypass shield stacking by counting down seconds and stunning at just the right time.
All this timer calculation is something pugs generally struggle with.If you want me to reply to your comment type @Ankael07 in it.11 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WaltherCarraway wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »
PvP is the main reason why everyone can't have fun here.
lol?
what's your input?
It's completely biased and was obviously created by a DK main with a complex.42 -
pod88kk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WaltherCarraway wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »
PvP is the main reason why everyone can't have fun here.
lol?
what's your input?
It's completely biased and was obviously created by a DK main with a complex.
This made me giggle2 -
WaltherCarraway✭✭✭✭✭WaltherCarraway wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »
PvP is the main reason why everyone can't have fun here.
lol?
what's your input?
It's completely biased and was obviously created by a DK main with a complex.
It just hard for someone hardly ever played DK to admit DK is the most under-performing class. When was the last time you played DK? Or is that your crafting mule?
Yet no one can point out what's biased, maybe it's because perma-blocking is still a thing to some folks?
Conversely, meanwhile magDK is overpowered to some stamBlade, some magSorc or even some stamWarden with heavy L2P issue, and they can make a similar picture if they are bored enough.
Based on the fact some folks are unable to interpret the meaning of "PvP is the main reason why everyone can't have fun here." and the picture. I choose not to view this thread again.Edited by WaltherCarraway on June 10, 2018 9:51PMBack from my last hiatus. 2021 a new start.7 -
dem0n1k✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sorcs are the best so haters be hatin'. Much jellies. Also, nerf sorcs is a topic everyone can rally behind and feel that juicy moral high ground. Ikr!?!NA Server [PC] -- Mostly Ebonheart Pact, Mostly.2 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WaltherCarraway wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »
PvP is the main reason why everyone can't have fun here.
lol?
what's your input?
It's completely biased and was obviously created by a DK main with a complex.
It just hard for someone hardly ever played DK to admit DK is the most under-performing class. When was the last time you played DK? Or is that your crafting mule?
Yet no one can point out what's biased, maybe it's because perma-blocking is still a thing to some folks?
Conversely, meanwhile magDK is overpowered to some stamBlade, some magSorc or even some stamWarden with heavy L2P issue, and they can make a similar picture if they are bored enough.
Based on the fact some folks are unable to interpret the meaning of "PvP is the main reason why everyone can't have fun here." and the picture. I choose not to view this thread again.
That's all completely irrelevant, but I played quite a lot of both Stam and Magicka DK in 2.4 and 2.5. I enjoyed both quite a lot and did well. I did well enough to think the 'make dk great again' movement at the time was completely overblown. Since then, Mag DK has been buffed in many significant ways and I don't know a single decent player who considers them weak. I also played a full blown DPS DK during 3.2 that chewed up sorcs and nbs, even though it was a group build that was completely suboptimal for solo play.
But again, that's irrelevant. There's no need to go further in this thread because it's about sorcs, not a buff DK thread. Try starting a new 'make dk great again' thread and see where it takes you if you are so inclined.Edited by zyk on June 10, 2018 10:09PM6 -
Sleep724✭✭✭✭✭DKs have been wanting their own execute since the game came out, everyone loses their minds about them getting one based off of DOTs. Meanwhile mag Sorcs have a passive execute that over performs and no one bats an eye.12
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Facefister✭✭✭✭✭
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PvP is the reason why classes get nerfed or "balanced" to uselessness.WaltherCarraway wrote: »
PvP is the main reason why everyone can't have fun here.
lol?
PvP is the reason why unique builds don't exist.
PvP is the reason why the majority of sets, whether they're crafted or dropped, are useless.
The moment some unique set, skill or generally a feature appears, pvpers exploit these to the point where those getting streamlined with existing stuff ingame. Yes, pvp is the reason why we don't have nice things, now go make another thread why Sload's is OP and should be nerfed.25 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Their execute gives them an unfair advantage in BGs (they can steal kills from the opposing team with little effort), their damage shields give them better survivability than heavy armor, Rune cage gives magSorcs free kills with no counterplay, Haunting Curse hits hard than incap but it goes off every 2 seconds, and you can't block or dodge it (you can shield it though which is just another reason why damage shields are OP).21 -
Sylosi✭✭✭✭✭
✭I see so many threads complaining about how OP mag sorcs are. But more often than not, those threads seem to just want mag sorcs to have nothing to make them easy kills in PVP, something that shouldn't affect PVE, but that's another issue. From my perspective, all the "nerf mag sorcs" just seem to be people asking for their class to be better, so make something else easier to kill? It rarely actually seems to be for balance's sake.
Can someone explain this to me? This is the only game i've ever played where i've seen people BEG for nerfing lol.
You can't of played many games if you this is the only one where you've seen people say X needs a nerf.
As for why people complain about magsorcs to put it simply you can build for offense, yet enjoy the benefit of very strong defence with non-critable shields that stack that scale off the same resource you want for offense, you have mobility, you can play from range and it is one of the easiest most newb friendly things in the game to play (i.e - look at the execute, plus implosion on top, very passive play, literally built for newbies that puts the skill onus on your opponent) and to top it off have maybe the most important utility skill in the game for group play.
But that said people complain about a lot of things - stamblades for instance, or even individual skills, the number of threads about the Jesus beam, was well...
The reality is balance will never be good in a game like ESO where design and balance is completely compromised by two game modes, then multiple types of play within those modes, in a game where the playerbase is very mixed ability and has hugely differing views on what is important in the game.
Edited by Sylosi on June 11, 2018 3:13PM3 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭They were top tier for a looong time, since 1.6 to CWC they were within the top 3. Other classes took nerfs commonly (DK/Temp) and NB was broken for a good bit (shade being unfunctional, cloak breaking on everything, merciless being super janky 1 use, cast time etc) so the meta hate set in.
Post nerfs, sorc is quite a high quality rage inducer. Implosion and wrath are brutal executes, and wrath is almost always the KB if with a sorc, wrath spammers in zergs get me, between negate, cage, encase and wrath, sorc are one of the top zerging classes. Shields are exceptionally strong in a 1v1, and can last nearly forever against a mag build, lower them, then they'll streak away as if nothing happened.
Personally I don't mind much of the above, just how the class is, AND I'd personally give them some buffs too. The only thing that triggers me is how DKs have been bent over for sorcs. Reflect nerfed, pulse unreflectable, FOO nerfed and given to sorcs, runecage, sorc. They also have a version of talons.
That, my friends, triggers me.
EDIT: Just clarifying, I don't think sorc is OP. Not at all. There are a few builds within it that are, and these are generally niche. Just explaining why many people find them irritating.Edited by ak_pvp on June 10, 2018 11:04PMMagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.17 -
Iselin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Because if sorcs are not OP'd some players would have to face up to the sad reality that they suck. 98.7% of "Nerf!" cries are all about that. It has been scientifically proven by sorcs.6 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I generally don't have much of an opinion on class balance these days, but I do observe posts and conversations here and on Discord by some of the players widely recognized to be among the best sorcs in the game.
Many lament that the change to rune cage was bad because it's both too easy and too strong as its break-free isn't instantaneous. Some feel this combined with the Sorc's unmatched ability to layer burst damage is OP.
Recently, Pelican, a widely respected sorc posted this thread about Overload because he feels it is OP at the moment -- especially combined with the delayed break-free of rune cage:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/418313/please-nerf-overload/p13 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WaltherCarraway wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »
PvP is the main reason why everyone can't have fun here.
lol?
what's your input?
It's completely biased and was obviously created by a DK main with a complex.
It just hard for someone hardly ever played DK to admit DK is the most under-performing class. When was the last time you played DK? Or is that your crafting mule?
Yet no one can point out what's biased, maybe it's because perma-blocking is still a thing to some folks?
Conversely, meanwhile magDK is overpowered to some stamBlade, some magSorc or even some stamWarden with heavy L2P issue, and they can make a similar picture if they are bored enough.
Based on the fact some folks are unable to interpret the meaning of "PvP is the main reason why everyone can't have fun here." and the picture. I choose not to view this thread again.
That's all completely irrelevant, but I played quite a lot of both Stam and Magicka DK in 2.4 and 2.5. I enjoyed both quite a lot and did well. I did well enough to think the 'make dk great again' movement at the time was completely overblown. Since then, Mag DK has been buffed in many significant ways and I don't know a single decent player who considers them weak. I also played a full blown DPS DK during 3.2 that chewed up sorcs and nbs, even though it was a group build that was completely suboptimal for solo play.
But again, that's irrelevant. There's no need to go further in this thread because it's about sorcs, not a buff DK thread. Try starting a new 'make dk great again' thread and see where it takes you if you are so inclined.
Not a DK thread, but the MagDK has had very little substantial buffs, its always been nerfs, and then partial unnerfs, or buffs coupled with nerfs. Old igneous> New frag. Old battle roar>New combustion. Old wings > New wings with removal. Or fossilize range nerf but functionality buff, whip dodge nerf and hard CD, but CD "buff."
The only 2 real buffs that changed the way they performed since the morrowind slump where they were absolutely the worst class was cauterize (pretty big buff) and shifting. Shifting being mediocre even still. What brought DK up to med tier from absolute worst was the repetitive stam and other class nerfs.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.4 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Call me crazy but I have run into people of all classes who know how to use their builds. Class skill imbalances aside, i have no comment on that aspect.1 -
Sharalei✭✭✭✭I'm running around in a highly flammable, silk nightie, and you want me to lose the only thing I have to defend myself with, skillz? Ouch!
Honestly, if some of these people put half the effort into working out how to play their own class as they put into whining about other classes, they wouldn't have anything to whine about!6 -
usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
✭I see so many threads complaining about how OP mag sorcs are. But more often than not, those threads seem to just want mag sorcs to have nothing to make them easy kills in PVP, something that shouldn't affect PVE, but that's another issue. From my perspective, all the "nerf mag sorcs" just seem to be people asking for their class to be better, so make something else easier to kill? It rarely actually seems to be for balance's sake.
Can someone explain this to me? This is the only game i've ever played where i've seen people BEG for nerfing lol.
I don't hate sorcs... Well, just the ones that vaporize you with a flick of their wrist. Not because they killed me but because I wish I could play sorc that well.Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.3 -
PapaWeeb✭✭✭✭Facefister wrote: »
PvP is the reason why classes get nerfed or "balanced" to uselessness.WaltherCarraway wrote: »
PvP is the main reason why everyone can't have fun here.
lol?
PvP is the reason why unique builds don't exist.
PvP is the reason why the majority of sets, whether they're crafted or dropped, are useless.
The moment some unique set, skill or generally a feature appears, pvpers exploit these to the point where those getting streamlined with existing stuff ingame. Yes, pvp is the reason why we don't have nice things, now go make another thread why Sload's is OP and should be nerfed.
You say that of Sload's as if it affects PvE players. Any PvE player concerned about a Sload's nerf obviously doesn't care about their performance.
PvP players are playing the same game as you, and deserve a balanced game to play, same as you. If ZoS can't balance those areas of the game together then that's on them, not the PvP playersPC EU10 -
RexyCat✭✭✭✭Noobs complains about anybody who kills them in PvP or manage to run away then their zerg is chasing them.
Sorcerer has gotten multiple nerfs and is not so impressive anymore but is still an high utility class.
Nerf sorcerer pretty much an forum meme now
Playing as magsorc [mostly in PvE] (one of my first toon in this game), I would say that we have all the right skills for DPS which give us mobility, defence (shields) and combination of single target (Crystal Frag) and AoE for multi target (Deadric Tomb etc). Magsorcer have passives which also helps a lot for ourself and for nearby friends with damage and resource gain (magic).
Main difference between magwarden and magsorcerer for me is that I can not use any class skill to cleanse myself, only get heals from doing critical damage, so it is another way to play a sorcerer then a warden or a templar which can equip cleanse from class abilities without using resto staves (mutagen) and have more healing abilities that isn't depending on manage a pet.
With the way this game is using more and more NPC that can stun or and even can do a teleport from range to where you are, which make it hard to avoid getting hit, when you get hit you get slowed downed or even kicked back to ground and/or stunned. Cleans help to get back faster and avoid getting over runned by those NPCs.
Another thing to take into account is that sorcerer belong to the "oldest" group of classes to pick from when game came out and where rather strong, so because of that there is this idea that sorcerer are still over performing compared to other classes.
Templar have been changed a lot since then for healing, I don't know much about Dragonknights, but I suppose those have also been changed into some different from when their main strength where mainly around tanking and Nightblade which is based on a kind of assassin type of damage (second DPS) which fit more into PvP, then into PvE even as NB have become better to do different roles in PvE.
In PvE people in general would not shout for a nerf of sorcerer just because they perform a tad bit better then other classes, as long that there are other roles that other classes can do better. Another thing that have an impact is how different sets interact with each class. Some sets can change shields (from skills) into a weapon, other sets make shields into a weakness which can be exploited. It is harder to suggest buffs then to demand nerfs as buffs always have a larger impact then one can imagine (as one doesn't know what changes that might be for sets already in game and future sets).0 -
Sevn✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm petty, after seeing so many sorcs beg for NB nerfs I'm all in on returning the favor, op or not.There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
-Hemingway4 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Their execute gives them an unfair advantage in BGs (they can steal kills from the opposing team with little effort), their damage shields give them better survivability than heavy armor, Rune cage gives magSorcs free kills with no counterplay, Haunting Curse hits hard than incap but it goes off every 2 seconds, and you can't block or dodge it (you can shield it though which is just another reason why damage shields are OP).
Now you've wandered off into the weeds even more than usual...
LOL, Haunting Curse does NOT hit harder than Incap, and it does NOT go off every 2 seconds!#CAREBEARMASTERRACE20 -
Ender1310✭✭✭✭There was a time when sorc was god mode whose offense and defense scales with one stat giving insane damage and it's true best mobility. The same people that you see on the forums today would tell you l2p or git gud. The fact was the class was carrying them. This lasted for a while. It got hammered. What you see now is watered down sorc that guess what. Is still good. Some builds still have the best mobility shields are still strong and the burst is good. Imagine how good they used to be. I don't think sorc is on top of the food chain anymore. But it's still good.2 -
SirMewser✭✭✭✭✭Their execute gives them an unfair advantage in BGs (they can steal kills from the opposing team with little effort), their damage shields give them better survivability than heavy armor, Rune cage gives magSorcs free kills with no counterplay, Haunting Curse hits hard than incap but it goes off every 2 seconds, and you can't block or dodge it (you can shield it though which is just another reason why damage shields are OP).
Every 2 seconds?
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