why so much hate for mag sorcs?

Chilly-McFreeze

TheForsake wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Just FYI I play sorc in pvp as well.
...
Rework implosion and nerf the rune cage stun and ill be happy.

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Just FYI I play everything but warden. So its not like my objectivity on anything is obscured just because I have nightblade characters. I have a warden of course but its BORING lol.

Actually you play everything. But if I had to guess you are either a Nightblade or Templar as your main.

Rune Cage is the only defense Sorcerers have against Nightblades. Sounds like someone is fishing for easier kills. All the mobility, damage, and shields in the world are useless when your stunned by stealth'ed Nightblade.

If not for Rune Cage there would be no 1v1's against Sorcerers and Nightblades in PvP, Sorcerers would never have a chance to engage in combat.

Also as far as executes go, Sorcerers only have one low health (20%) execute skill... Mages Fury. Nightblades are pretty much designed for execute, most of their skills are execution skills which make Mages Fury damage output look like crap and execute at a way higher health percentage.

Every class has an arch-enemy, for Sorcerers its DragonKnights and their Reflective Scales. For Nightblades it's Sorcerers and Rune Cage, because it makes them the only class that can't be ganked.

TBF I think you're confusing the morphs of cage here. You seem to talk about Defensive Rune, while he talks about Rune Prison, the active morph with the damage component. But you both have a point, I'd hate to see Defensive Rune nerfed because of Rune Cage.

templesus

double post

templesus

Feanor wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

After a few more days of duels and BGs against the top PvPers on my server, I have come to the conclusion that Rune Cage is far too powerful on sorc. I have beat the top players on each respective class this patch, mag nb, mag dk, magplar stamblade etc (im a 2h/bow stamplar), but when faced with a mag sorc there is severe disparity. Fury>Curse>Meteor>Rune Cage combo is so broken that average level mag sorcs who were nobodies prior to summerset are now giving me trouble. This is where the line needs to be drawn, when a player with far inferior skill level is able to kill someone because of the class they are playing, something needs to be done. There is little to no counterplay against this combo and it is allowing sorc to dominate all facets of PvP. All that needs to be done is make rune cage blockable. Given, this won't stop sorc QQ (people have cried about it since launch), but the class is actually over performing right now and this will bring it more in line with other classes.

And do not try and rebuttal me trying to justify rune cage being undodgeable and unblockable because night blades have one as I am a 2h/Bow stamplar and dizzying swing is my CC so I do not care whatsoever. (Javelin misses half the time, sure so does dizzying but at least when it doesn't land I keep my stamina.)

How many people complained about Rune Cage pre Summerset? Right, no one, because most Sorcs didn’t even run it, preferring Master Destro Reach for a CC tied with damage and a DoT. If you take the damage from Rune Cage then we‘ll be back to square one - a CC that only Sorcs use that don’t have a Master Destro or that make the personal choice of sacrificing damage potential for better control over the CC and the follow up.

It’s a given though the big majority of Sorcs will just go back to the boring Master Destro again because they don’t have the luxury to run Rune Cage as a skill that just CCs.

The problem isn’t the damage either. It’s the animation of Rune Cage. I could kill with Meteor and a well timed Rune Cage even before Summerset. The crusade only started now because Rune Cage gets actually used by most Sorcs now.

Oh and if ZOS fixes the animation, don’t forget to fix the CC on Fear too please.

I don't understand what's wrong with this? Magden, Magplar, and Magdk and even Magnb all have the same choice?

Micah_Bayer

Daus wrote: »

Their execute gives them an unfair advantage in BGs (they can steal kills from the opposing team with little effort), their damage shields give them better survivability than heavy armor, Rune cage gives magSorcs free kills with no counterplay, Haunting Curse hits hard than incap but it goes off every 2 seconds, and you can't block or dodge it (you can shield it though which is just another reason why damage shields are OP).

My mind went numb reading this. Haunting curse goes off every 2 seconds...No. it goes off after 4 seconds then goes off again after 8 seconds. 2ndly it hits about 5k pvp and incap can hit for 11-13k 3rdly. Without a dmg shield..light armour users can be 2 shot.

templesus

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Their execute gives them an unfair advantage in BGs (they can steal kills from the opposing team with little effort), their damage shields give them better survivability than heavy armor, Rune cage gives magSorcs free kills with no counterplay, Haunting Curse hits hard than incap but it goes off every 2 seconds, and you can't block or dodge it (you can shield it though which is just another reason why damage shields are OP).

My mind went numb reading this. Haunting curse goes off every 2 seconds...No. it goes off after 4 seconds then goes off again after 8 seconds. 2ndly it hits about 5k pvp and incap can hit for 11-13k 3rdly. Without a dmg shield..light armour users can be 2 shot.

While I agree with everything else you said, the last part is false. My LA Magblade and Magplar both have good survivability with HoTs.

Micah_Bayer

templesus wrote: »

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Their execute gives them an unfair advantage in BGs (they can steal kills from the opposing team with little effort), their damage shields give them better survivability than heavy armor, Rune cage gives magSorcs free kills with no counterplay, Haunting Curse hits hard than incap but it goes off every 2 seconds, and you can't block or dodge it (you can shield it though which is just another reason why damage shields are OP).

My mind went numb reading this. Haunting curse goes off every 2 seconds...No. it goes off after 4 seconds then goes off again after 8 seconds. 2ndly it hits about 5k pvp and incap can hit for 11-13k 3rdly. Without a dmg shield..light armour users can be 2 shot.

While I agree with everything else you said, the last part is false. My LA Magblade and Magplar both have good survivability with HoTs.

Sorcerer doesn't have hots. Rapid regen isn't a class ability. Not attempting to sound bitter. But sorcs are squisher than mag nb.

Betsararie

Doesn't matter now

Ravingar

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

PvP is the main reason why everyone can't have fun here.

#BUFF DRAGONKIGHTS

(not really, I feel like your image is making DK's seem bad - when you see them in PvP ALL the time)

FR0STDEE

Last month it was NBs this months its Sorcs. Watch out Templars.

Crom_CCCXVI

People say they hate Mag Sorcs because it is very easy to sheild stack and your DPS is way higher than everyone else--- but I think the real issue is all the "run away" skills they have, streak, mist form, etc,... if they didn't just turn and run away the second they were hit, there probably wouldn't be so much salt



and
They never should have nerfed sheild breaker......(off lightning and resto staffs)
They never should have nerfed "off balance" for the Mag DK's power lash. That is their best attack and now you can only do it once every 6 seconds, LoL

Sparr0w

lol nerf sorcs

templesus

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Their execute gives them an unfair advantage in BGs (they can steal kills from the opposing team with little effort), their damage shields give them better survivability than heavy armor, Rune cage gives magSorcs free kills with no counterplay, Haunting Curse hits hard than incap but it goes off every 2 seconds, and you can't block or dodge it (you can shield it though which is just another reason why damage shields are OP).

My mind went numb reading this. Haunting curse goes off every 2 seconds...No. it goes off after 4 seconds then goes off again after 8 seconds. 2ndly it hits about 5k pvp and incap can hit for 11-13k 3rdly. Without a dmg shield..light armour users can be 2 shot.

While I agree with everything else you said, the last part is false. My LA Magblade and Magplar both have good survivability with HoTs.

Sorcerer doesn't have hots. Rapid regen isn't a class ability. Not attempting to sound bitter. But sorcs are squisher than mag nb.

You said light armor users can be two shot without shields...that includes all classes, not just sorc.

Lord-Otto

And how do you all expect the class to actually work after your nerfs?


If you nerf the burst damage by removing Rune Cage, a sorc will never be able to burst 25k health down. And every competent player knows how awful sorc's sustained pressure is. No proper DoT, no practical heavy weaving, no negative effects to apply, no snare/root to outspace.
Burst is all sorcs have, and they can't kill a good player without.

If you forbid shield stacking, how is a sorc supposed to setup his/her burst? It takes four seconds of preparation to setup Curse-Fury-Cage-Frag. That means shields must hold during that time, as a shieldless sorc is typically close to a one-shot. If it takes you more than a light attack plus a skill to pop one shield, your build lacks damage and of course, you're gonna have a bad time.
Shields must cover sorcs for four seconds, or burst and thus killing is not possible. HoTs are out of the question right now, as sorcs don't have a self-heal and Rapid Regen is too weak, as it's balanced for group healing.

And let's not get into how sorcs are helpless against snares, consume resources like fresh air and are bound to staves, while neglecting their pet synergy. Hell, even their supposed anti-melee tool, mines, is quite impractical in Cyro. Sorcs are absolute one-trick ponies and I suggest if that one trick still works on you, you better ask good players for advice and become better, instead of mindlessly asking for unreasonable nerfs.

Priyasekarssk

Agreed. And tbh, I'm not shocked they implemented it, because it was clear when proc sets were put in they have no idea how to balance PvP.[/quote]

Runcage doesnt even change much except increase in duration post summerset. Added 2 seconds thats it. You can always break free. Just put a poll fear vs runcage. Fear is the worst overpowered CC in game.
Nothing changed. No one used it for very long time. Not even slot it.
Except overload , sorc doesnt need any fix. Learn to play. Some noobs here complaning streak. NB can spam ambush/charge streak and cloak and complaining about streak. Another noob complaining about shields. Shield breaker & oblivion damage already go through all the shields. NB already so overpowered to kill in less than 2 seconds. Even sorcs at their prime or cannot do it. You need atleast 3 -5 seconds for a scorc to kill you unless you use mage guild ultimate .
How a sorc can kill instantly ?
Noobs want cheese with Shuffle ? Runcage was designed for sorc to go through shuffle. When NB or any stamina has shuffle active , what next ? Sorc no CC & no debuffs. Destructive reach nor streak not work through shuffle. Just I will make shuffle active put a CC after CC until sorc dies. He cannot escape neither CC me . If he streak , my ambush follow him. I can escape whenever I want. I will put all my debuffs and defiles 30M away and noob sorc doesnt even know where I am. Its L2P issue. Not a game issue. When I am stam nb and against magic sorc , I will win all the fights in 1v1. Again all fights. Noobs sorc not even see until dies. Only mag sorcs in groups is a problem.
Get to back of the sorc in cloak. Put all debuffs and defiles 30m away. ambush , CC + incap. Gameover. If fails, only incase someone strongly heals him, use shadow image to escape and repeat. As NB I found only heavy armor warden is hard to kill. Not a sorc or any mage builds is never a problem. Problem is I always mostly found in groups and someone there to heal him strongly.

Another noob complain as if he is world best player and some noob sorc kill him with run cage.
What a bunch of noobs. ZOs knows what to balance atleast when something is overpowered. Only NB is exception. ZOs might already work on it. Empower buff to overload will be removed in future.

Most of the problem with class balance mostly do with players . They dont know or even try to understand why its designed such way. Just because most of them are bunch of noobs calling themselves pros and ZOs has to listen to them instead putting some effort to learn the game. Runcage is designed as it should be . Nothing to discuss here.

itscompton

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Their execute gives them an unfair advantage in BGs (they can steal kills from the opposing team with little effort), their damage shields give them better survivability than heavy armor, Rune cage gives magSorcs free kills with no counterplay, Haunting Curse hits hard than incap but it goes off every 2 seconds, and you can't block or dodge it (you can shield it though which is just another reason why damage shields are OP).

While runcage why cant you break free. Someone need to teach how to break free ? There are even more powerful and non counterable CCs to other classes. Every 2 seconds ? Your post is completely noob without any substance. L2P.

I hope you're trolling lol

templesus wrote: »

As someone who’s played every class in the game, PvPed since launch(solo/small group open world not zerged), I believe I can give a non biased opinion.

Mag sorc has been one of the top classes in PvP since the game came out, this is not news to anyone. They have seen ups and downs, but recently with the changes to rune cage they became so dominant that it makes me wonder why play anything else. The issue is no matter what class you are on, there is absolutely no counterplay to rune cage>meteor. When times correctly with curse, a mages wrath thrown in before hand, and a frag, someone with a less than elite skill level can kill even some of the best players on each respectable class when they would get curbstomped If they were on any class but sorc.

The changes to light attack damage scaling has made sorc pressure even greater. I have personally spammed light attacks on potatoes on my sorc and killed them, that’s how hard they’re hitting.

The overall burst, paired with the best defensive utilities in the game (shields+mines) and the best mobility in the game (streak) makes mag sorc arguably the best in every noteworthy category in PvP. All ZOS has to do to rebalance mag sorc really, is to make rune cage blockable.

Make all CCs blockable then. Fear the worst CC is still not blockable. You know run cage is the only CC for sorc. A sorc cannot kill in 2 seconds ,wherease a NB can do. Best mobility in the game. LOL ROFL. When sorc streak, NB will charge ambush or charge strike. Ambush spammable . Charge strike spammable. Streak is not despite hefty cost.
.
Putting unbiased opinion, but giving completely biased opinion. L2P.

If your Sorc can't time a burst that kills someone in 2 seconds

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Their execute gives them an unfair advantage in BGs (they can steal kills from the opposing team with little effort), their damage shields give them better survivability than heavy armor, Rune cage gives magSorcs free kills with no counterplay, Haunting Curse hits hard than incap but it goes off every 2 seconds, and you can't block or dodge it (you can shield it though which is just another reason why damage shields are OP).

While runcage why cant you break free. Someone need to teach how to break free ? There are even more powerful and non counterable CCs to other classes. Every 2 seconds ? Your post is completely noob without any substance. L2P.

I hope you're trolling lol

templesus wrote: »

As someone who’s played every class in the game, PvPed since launch(solo/small group open world not zerged), I believe I can give a non biased opinion.

Mag sorc has been one of the top classes in PvP since the game came out, this is not news to anyone. They have seen ups and downs, but recently with the changes to rune cage they became so dominant that it makes me wonder why play anything else. The issue is no matter what class you are on, there is absolutely no counterplay to rune cage>meteor. When times correctly with curse, a mages wrath thrown in before hand, and a frag, someone with a less than elite skill level can kill even some of the best players on each respectable class when they would get curbstomped If they were on any class but sorc.

The changes to light attack damage scaling has made sorc pressure even greater. I have personally spammed light attacks on potatoes on my sorc and killed them, that’s how hard they’re hitting.

The overall burst, paired with the best defensive utilities in the game (shields+mines) and the best mobility in the game (streak) makes mag sorc arguably the best in every noteworthy category in PvP. All ZOS has to do to rebalance mag sorc really, is to make rune cage blockable.

Make all CCs blockable then. Fear the worst CC is still not blockable. You know run cage is the only CC for sorc. A sorc cannot kill in 2 seconds ,wherease a NB can do. Best mobility in the game. LOL ROFL. When sorc streak, NB will charge ambush or charge strike. Ambush spammable . Charge strike spammable. Streak is not despite hefty cost.
.
Putting unbiased opinion, but giving completely biased opinion. L2P.

If you have to defend Mag sorc against being OP by comparing it against the only other class as over tuned you already lost the argument.

templesus

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Agreed. And tbh, I'm not shocked they implemented it, because it was clear when proc sets were put in they have no idea how to balance PvP.

Runcage doesnt even change much except increase in duration post summerset. Added 2 seconds thats it. You can always break free. Just put a poll fear vs runcage. Fear is the worst overpowered CC in game.
Nothing changed. No one used it for very long time. Not even slot it.
Except overload , sorc doesnt need any fix. Learn to play. Some noobs here complaning streak. NB can spam ambush/charge streak and cloak and complaining about streak. Another noob complaining about shields. Shield breaker & oblivion damage already go through all the shields. NB already so overpowered to kill in less than 2 seconds. Even sorcs at their prime or cannot do it. You need atleast 3 -5 seconds for a scorc to kill you unless you use mage guild ultimate .
How a sorc can kill instantly ?
Noobs want cheese with Shuffle ? Runcage was designed for sorc to go through shuffle. When NB or any stamina has shuffle active , what next ? Sorc no CC & no debuffs. Destructive reach nor streak not work through shuffle. Just I will make shuffle active put a CC after CC until sorc dies. He cannot escape neither CC me . If he streak , my ambush follow him. I can escape whenever I want. I will put all my debuffs and defiles 30M away and noob sorc doesnt even know where I am. Its L2P issue. Not a game issue. When I am stam nb and against magic sorc , I will win all the fights in 1v1. Again all fights. Noobs sorc not even see until dies. Only mag sorcs in groups is a problem.
Get to back of the sorc in cloak. Put all debuffs and defiles 30m away. ambush , CC + incap. Gameover. If fails, only incase someone strongly heals him, use shadow image to escape and repeat. As NB I found only heavy armor warden is hard to kill. Not a sorc or any mage builds is never a problem. Problem is I always mostly found in groups and someone there to heal him strongly.

Another noob complain as if he is world best player and some noob sorc kill him with run cage.
What a bunch of noobs. ZOs knows what to balance atleast when something is overpowered. Only NB is exception. ZOs might already work on it. Empower buff to overload will be removed in future.

Most of the problem with class balance mostly do with players . They dont know or even try to understand why its designed such way. Just because most of them are bunch of noobs calling themselves pros and ZOs has to listen to them instead putting some effort to learn the game. Runcage is designed as it should be . Nothing to discuss here.

You clearly have no actual argument to defend mag sorc, as your justification for everything is NB this and NB that. There are 8 other classes in the game. Until you provide a meaningful argument you will get no further responses from me. I won't waste my time with the ignorant.

Valen_Byte

2 main reasons.

1. Shields, people that dont have them, dont like them.
2. Sorcs jump too much. Its annoying. lol