Battleground MMR System for Vet Characters

Thogard · June 2018

The battlegrounds MMR (or similar) system currently treats most veteran characters in such a way that the queue time is anywhere from 20 to 50 minutes before getting a match.

We have not yet been able to determine which stats are being used to determine MMR (or whichever system is being used), but what we do know is that those of us who have played BGs the most are now unable to play them on our “mains.” This seems to be a server-wide phenomenon for which there are no exceptions... players with more than 500 games played have long queue times, and when the queues do “pop” they are usually put against premade groups.

I’m wondering if this is a possible bug in the system .. something being added rather than multiplied in such a way that it negatively affects the players with the most games played as they try to find a match. This seems to be the case on both PC NA and PC EU.

For now we are all playing alts, but we’d like to be able to play our mains again. This happens to us when we solo queue but also when we group queue... putting a veteran character in a group with three new characters will increase the queue time by a significant amount. Four veteran characters leads to a queue time of over an hour.

Please either adjust the MMR system so we can play on our mains or please wipe the MMR history so we all get a fresh start. Many players are frustrated that the people who play BGs the most are now the only group unable to do so.

Thogard · June 2018

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Wrobel @Gilliamtherogue @Blobsky @FENGRUSH @Krotha @Galalin @mlsweet @ShadowMonarch @raknorok @CO_Gibbs @venzzini @Cinbri @Mojomonkeyman @TheYKcid

I’ve tagged the BG regulars and some of the people who have been helping me test this new system. Please weigh in if you can.

TheYKcid · June 2018

EDIT: posted in the wrong thread sorry

Galalin · June 2018

I have posted my frustrations many times but here is a recap.

I wait an hour to try to get a match almost every single time and have completely given up on even trying to get into BG's as it discriminates so harshly against anyone who plays them a lot or seems to do well in them. The frustration and contempt i feel for BG's with the ABSOLUTELY STUPID wait times of this adjusted system towards ZoS is something I wont elaborate on.

On top of the extreme frustration It completely takes away any opportunity to even make the leader boards let alone compete and is impossible to even finish the daily quests to access the reward for both dailies and leader boards. How is this even a thing???

Even when I get in solo queued i'm against pre-mades and when I get in group queued i'm fighting solo and duo players as confirmed by them. ZoS has done nothing to fix the issues that players have brought up and managed to screw everyone who plays BG's regularly in the process.

If this is what ZoS calls balancing BG's they can keep this pile of Crap they call BG's. After a while the ppl playing now will run into the same problems and BG's will be another wasted resource in the game that ppl see as more frustrating and waste of time to do than its worth.

Probably my biggest issue is.... you guessed it in true ZoS fashion not a single comment or response from ZoS on the issue. So enjoy while you can ppl when you get more matches and wins under your belt I am fairly confident this will be your fate. I'm so tired of the silence. Come out and defend your changes and explain how they are improving BG's or admit that something needs to be done to fix it. Or just sit and ignore... and let us all think you give 2 ***** about what we think.

ZoS grossly misjudged the volume of ppl that would play BG's and there is not near enough of a population to support this type of system.

Rant Over

Sixty5 · June 2018

I'm definitely feeling the new system.

I've been playing a Stamplar I have never used before this patch, alongside my regular stam sorc, and it's night and day. I never see any names I know on my Stamplar, and queues are almost instant

CO_Gibbs · June 2018

Galalin wrote: »

I have posted my frustrations many times but here is a recap.

I wait an hour to try to get a match almost every single time and have completely given up on even trying to get into BG's as it discriminates so harshly against anyone who plays them a lot or seems to do well in them. The frustration and contempt i feel for BG's with the ABSOLUTELY STUPID wait times of this adjusted system towards ZoS is something I wont elaborate on.

On top of the extreme frustration It completely takes away any opportunity to even make the leader boards let alone compete and is impossible to even finish the daily quests to access the reward for both dailies and leader boards. How is this even a thing???

Even when I get in solo queued i'm against pre-mades and when I get in group queued i'm fighting solo and duo players as confirmed by them. ZoS has done nothing to fix the issues that players have brought up and managed to screw everyone who plays BG's regularly in the process.

If this is what ZoS calls balancing BG's they can keep this pile of Crap they call BG's. After a while the ppl playing now will run into the same problems and BG's will be another wasted resource in the game that ppl see as more frustrating and waste of time to do than its worth.

Probably my biggest issue is.... you guessed it in true ZoS fashion not a single comment or response from ZoS on the issue. So enjoy while you can ppl when you get more matches and wins under your belt I am fairly confident this will be your fate. I'm so tired of the silence. Come out and defend your changes and explain how they are improving BG's or admit that something needs to be done to fix it. Or just sit and ignore... and let us all think you give 2 ***** about what we think.

ZoS grossly misjudged the volume of ppl that would play BG's and there is not near enough of a population to support this type of system.

Rant Over

Agreed 100%. I'm posting this after 4 minutes into a loading screen awaiting spawn after a death in BGs after a 25 minute q, with the corpse issue. A total waste of time. Of course, I'm sure my team is getting slaughtered as they are now down 1 man for atleast 1/3rd of the match.
These hilarious failures in design wouldn't be so bad (loading and hostile corpses), if I didn't have to wait in a extremely long Q.
I'd be happy to play against the same 12 people if it meant I actually got to play within a reasonable time. If ZOS doesn't at least address that these issues exist, and soon, I imagine they'll start losing subs, starting with me.

ShadowMonarch · June 2018

Recap: Extremely long queue times (15-40mins) which leads to being filled into already on going games majority of the time. 99% of games are vs a premade. To get a match not vs a premade is very very rare. A lot of games are starting 4vs3vs3, giving the pug teams with 3 no chance in hell while the premade starts off with a full team. This problem only started AFTER the summerset patch.

Not renewing my sub and im playing other games till the problem is addressed. We need to know what the problem is, if their is a way to lower our mmr, or any other solutions for solo queue players other then playing a different character.

Side bug enemy players do not always appear on the screen. Usually at the start of a match but it can happen anytime during the match. See link in my sig to find a sample video clip.

mlsweet · June 2018

I have spent the last year pretty much exclusively playing Battlegrounds. But since the drop of Summerset, it has been unbearable for me to queue on my main. I was excited about Battlegrounds being released as standard content and the possibilities of new opponents, but the new MMR system has completely halted my gameplay on my favorite toons.

The past two weeks have been miserable for me due to many of the same reasons others have posted; unbearable amount of time spent waiting in the queue (often longer than 30 minutes, or longer if I'm in a group), commonly starting a game 3v4 or 2v4 and not receiving another player on my team until half way through the match, or not at all, or being the player inserted into a game half underway. Having one of these issues might be negligible, but when you've sat around for 30-60 minutes just to get 10 minutes of futile gameplay, you start to wonder what you're paying for.

If it's too much or too late to ask to fix the MMR system, then we at the very least deserve a clean slate so that we can actually play the part of the game we most enjoy and patronize.

mlsweet · June 2018

Edit: Having one of these issues every now and then

Apache_Kid · June 2018

Haven't tried BGs yet as I am on console but I will try on my main today. If I am waiting 10+ minutes for a match I will not be playing BGs anymore. Waiting for a match is super annoying. Should've just kept the one-playlist queue and just kept throwing teams together at random. Any sort of extra "matchmaking" is just going to make wait times longer for us the players. I will post back in here on my experiences with my main in the queue but I have played many matches on that character so I imagine I will be waiting a long time as well.

Bfish22090 · June 2018

this is literally the worst. solo queued on high mmr characters takes 10+ minutes.
and then you get put against a premade!.
unacceptable ZOS

Manotilo4 · June 2018

PS4 EU here

The queue times have been terrible since Summerset launched. Worse than they have ever been.

-Waiting times are approximatelly an hour long.

-Yesterday I had 3 matches in 5 hours and today 4 matches in 6 hours. I was mainly queued during hours where I used to get in games all the time before Summerset.

-Me and my guildmates have tried all combinations: solo que, duo and 4 man queues. Waiting times are similar and very long on each occasion. The longest waiting time I had was actually solo.

-We all have countless of games in BGs with our mains and have been playing there since Morrowind launched.

-People who have tried to queue with alts and players that haven't played many games have had pretty decent waiting times (sometimes less than 5 minutes). I bet the people saying that their waiting times are 3 minutes have played very few games on those characters.

My conclusion here is that people who have played many matches on a specific character get very long waiting times, probably because the system is searching for players that have played a similar amount of matches, while at the same time considering how many veteran players are in the group. This needs to be fixed immediately; we cannot wait 40-60minutes to play a match. Literally it is easier to find a kuta than get in a match.
Unfortunately, there are not many players that have played countless of games and from what I have seen the feedback concerning these players is pretty limited.
What is really beyond me is that immediately after a game I played today I asked the players of the other teams (both premades, but some on characters that have not been used a lot and some on their mains) if they were in the queue. While all three teams where in the queue ,we had to wait approximately 40 minutes to get in a game.

Manotilo4 · June 2018

Also thanks for the post. They will definitely realize that something is working very wrong and fix it. It would be good to have some more players who have played many BGs on a single character to confirm this issue.

WrathOfInnos · June 2018

Won’t this problem solve itself when more players reach higher BG “ranks”? Not saying it’s ideal, but it sounds like a few of you did so so much and so well that the system just cannot find equal opponents within a reasonable time. I don’t really blame ZoS for not wanting to instantly put a pro against 8 noobs for a quick queue, that would result in 8 people having a bad experience being farmed instead of one person having a long wait time.

Thogard · June 2018

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Won’t this problem solve itself when more players reach higher BG “ranks”? Not saying it’s ideal, but it sounds like a few of you did so so much and so well that the system just cannot find equal opponents within a reasonable time. I don’t really blame ZoS for not wanting to instantly put a pro against 8 noobs for a quick queue, that would result in 8 people having a bad experience being farmed instead of one person having a long wait time.

Well here’s the thing... even when there are two “pro” premade groups in the queue, and 4+ pro soloers, everyone still has to wait 40+ min to get into the match, which is why we believe the system is bugged.

WrathOfInnos · June 2018

Thogard wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Won’t this problem solve itself when more players reach higher BG “ranks”? Not saying it’s ideal, but it sounds like a few of you did so so much and so well that the system just cannot find equal opponents within a reasonable time. I don’t really blame ZoS for not wanting to instantly put a pro against 8 noobs for a quick queue, that would result in 8 people having a bad experience being farmed instead of one person having a long wait time.

Well here’s the thing... even when there are two “pro” premade groups in the queue, and 4+ pro soloers, everyone still has to wait 40+ min to get into the match, which is why we believe the system is bugged.

That does sound a little off, maybe it is putting too much emphasis on premade matchmaking.

Thogard · June 2018

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Won’t this problem solve itself when more players reach higher BG “ranks”? Not saying it’s ideal, but it sounds like a few of you did so so much and so well that the system just cannot find equal opponents within a reasonable time. I don’t really blame ZoS for not wanting to instantly put a pro against 8 noobs for a quick queue, that would result in 8 people having a bad experience being farmed instead of one person having a long wait time.

Well here’s the thing... even when there are two “pro” premade groups in the queue, and 4+ pro soloers, everyone still has to wait 40+ min to get into the match, which is why we believe the system is bugged.

That does sound a little off, maybe it is putting too much emphasis on premade matchmaking.

Current working theory is that there is too much variation in the MMRs of the high MMR queuers. The longer you wait, the more flexible your MMR can be... but the difference between two high MMR premades might be just as great as between the lower MMR premade and the general population of queuers, meaning the wait time gets really really long.

Horowonnoe · June 2018

Yeah i notice a significant difference when i Q by myself or with other friends who play BGs frequently. Q timing is insane. Zos please do something about it. We spend more time waiting than playing.

Tyyy

Delta_IV · June 2018

Me and my friends having the same issues - standing in a group queue brings us to nothing, maybe cause of new groupfinding formula for old BG players on EU server. So the only thing that helps - we are queueing exceptionally solo, and then in like 20-40 minutes we can have a match, and usually its ofc against premades. So anyway ZOS, your new group matching formula brings us to nowhere for old BG chars. But if u switch to our different chars, without any points made on bg - its a different story. ZOS, i understand, that u were afraid of newbies being butchered in the first days of summerset battlegrounds, but definitely it's a bad luck for old players - i almost forgot of a teamplay on BG now.
Actually, i have another version - there's no MMR, ZOS just failed again with a normal group matching code when summerset arrived)))))

Cinbri · June 2018

I doubt zos care that they ruined bgs for veteran players. PvErs and casuals can play their pvp content apparently is what they focus on.

Aliyavana · June 2018

Either zos needs to remove the not system, or add more incentives to bgs such as mounts to get more frequent players into this system. It only took about 2-4 minutes solo suing prior to summerset for a match and noe it takes over 10 minutes and I still get solo ques into premades

nooglez22 · June 2018

I have played battlegrounds since its release on console everyday, on multiple characters. I know for myself and the other players who I know played it as much as I did we could be queuing for hours...me and a buddy sat in que for two hours yesterday as we were both on our mains..its completely ridiculous and needs to be fixed..I get that it was done to make it more fair but in all honesty that was already done by removing champion points..this system punishes those who gave battlegrounds a population of people to play against. I dont want to have to get on an alt if I wanna have a match...please fix it and instead of catering to casuals perhaps look after the players who have kept your *** going from day one.

xS Foxy · June 2018

More 700 bgs Wins before summerset and since summerset impossible to match a bgs on console..others old bgs players have the same problem.. juste stop this matchmaker ZOS...

Ophion · June 2018

So this happend to me twice today already during prime time on PC/EU. Quened for a specific mode; Deathmatch as a solo player. Joined a match and checked the teams. Noticed there were a pre-made team on green and the other teams only had 2 players each. Then nothing happend for 15 min and one person in my team dropped and he whisperd back to not leave since he got a 20 min deserter penalty. Another 15 min went by and no one joined, we finally got disbanded but we still got the 20 min deserter penalty for a 30 min game we never played.

I've had enough of the constant battlegrounds bugs and errors. I strongly belive ZOS took it out of the morrowind expansion due to not having a single clue how to sort out the issues.