so I finally tried sloads!!!

THEDKEXPERIENCE · June 2018

Time will tell but I think what we have here is a console vs PC issue. There are a wildly different number of builds you can use on console and be successful since every player doesn’t have HEALNOW!!!! and ULTIMATEREADY!!! and BEWAREOFNIGHTBLADE!!! type stuff forcing everyone into doing the same things to activately fight against things that add-ons make easier.

If this set is forcing people out of their box on PC - “errrrrmahgerd my uber leet skeelz r not werkin cuz SLOWEDS brah” - then it could be an overall win. As I stated, time will tell.

Now I’m off to go kill players with my armor.

Animus-ESO · June 2018

Dude I dont have an issue with sload by its self. But when 6-7 nbs attack your 3 man group stacking the dot on 1-2 people it's ***. The set alone isnt OP. Its the fact that it is a brainless zerg tool further giving players who out number the enemy an even bigger advabtage. It promotes skill-less play and dumbs down combat for casual bad players to feel good for no reason.

HeathenDeacon · June 2018

Vaoh wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

I can only assume that a series of other conditions are met to put sloads as the "cherry on top" of the death of so many players. (fighting outnumbered, being defiled, poisoned, etc.)....

I mean you said it here lol.

If you are solo it means you are constantly:
- fighting outnumbered (obviously lol. not a problem)
- defiled (very strong due to how CP stacks with it)
- poisoned (has been complained about since launch for good reason)

That’s all a given. Defiles and Poisons have worked wonders in reducing the viability of solo players especially since Morrowind nerfed sustain. It’s a very bad thing for the health of the PvP because it has diminished the competitive aspect of it.

What is a solo player supposed to do when all of their opponents are Tanks who are practically unkillable unless attacked by multiple players simultaneously? Well before the few tanks around would just get left alone since they didn’t deal much damage at all and mostly served to distract, heal, and debuff.
Yet nowadays these tanks can still put out reasonable/high damage due to all of their procs literally doing the work for them - is that okay?

These days you either find a group of your own or leave PvP. Hence the pitiful amount of PvPers compared even to the Homestead or Morrowind patches. Go ahead and support this direction of balancing but I hope you understand what it has done to this game over the years. Sloads is not a gamebreaker, but rather the newest addition to the game for reducing the viability of 1vX by eliminating the need for player skill as a true determining factor.

Well said.

wildbear247 · June 2018

As others have noted, Sloads only becomes really strong in no-CP PvP. They should probably review all the proc sets for no-CP PvP.

Galalin · June 2018

They simply need to cap the amount of times this can stack on a player at 1...most of the problem solved. It appears the Devs are taking this game in the direction of mindless, talent less proctards.

Micah_Bayer · June 2018

Anomanderake wrote: »

I play almost only bg, sload isn’t op. isn’t even strong. You just see it in the recap very often because people that chase the meta. To slot sload you must unslot your damage set or your sustain set.
I play sNB.

Stam nb is op

Lexxypwns · June 2018

Wing wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

25% of a typical health pool in no-CP every 6 seconds. Nah, not strong...

Sure, it’s at its strongest when combined with Duroks, bleeds, etc. however, let’s not pretend it’s good alone.

I’ll say it again, in no-CP every 6 seconds you lose 25% of your health pool and there’s very little you can do about it. That’s without any other damage factored in.

pffft, any decent players can go through 100% of most health pools (baring any form of "tank") in less then half the time.

and saying its 25% is also silly, that means 20k hp with the 5k cyro buff meaning 15k-ish HP base means you are go for broke DPS and have probably done nothing to stay alive (aside from shield spam, roll dodge spam, cloak spam, etc.) a stiff breeze would nock these players over and I doubt sloads is the critical factor in what's putting them in the grave.

5.7*4= 22.8 and remember I said no CP which means that’s a 27k+ health pool in CP, which requires either heavy armor or 2x lines of HP in your build

And no, in no-CP you can’t put 22k ACTUAL damage on me in 3 seconds under any circumstances without using a proc set

lazerlaz · June 2018

Rianai wrote: »

Not in noCP PvP. Witchmother/Dubious puts you at 17k health without any other health boni. Passives can increase this to ~20k. For more you need to trade other stats ...

I'm an Argonian nightblade using
Tri stat glyphs
skoria
sheer venom
agility
master bow
run a bow dps pvp setup
COLOVIAN LAVA FOOT SOUP (Max stam, stam recovery) food
No extra points into health

and hit 20-21k health in BGs....

Not sure what kind of potato setup you run for 17k health using dubious.

Rianai · June 2018

A setup without any health boni besides food. Which is exactly what i wrote. Ofc pretty much all builds got some health increasing passives, which puts that number at arround 20k. Which - again - i mentioned too.

mojomood · June 2018

Vaoh wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

I can only assume that a series of other conditions are met to put sloads as the "cherry on top" of the death of so many players. (fighting outnumbered, being defiled, poisoned, etc.)....

What is a solo player supposed to do when all of their opponents are Tanks who are practically unkillable unless attacked by multiple players simultaneously? Well before the few tanks around would just get left alone since they didn’t deal much damage at all and mostly served to distract, heal, and debuff.
Yet nowadays these tanks can still put out reasonable/high damage due to all of their procs literally doing the work for them - is that okay?

I totally agree that the issue is the Tanks who have no sustain issues and put out significant damage. It is the meta for small group. Zergs all run bombers, earthgore, a rapids spammer, a purge spammer, and some healers. Sloads may have been meant to break the tanks since their armor doesn't mean anything against it, but a set that require no speciality is boring.

PvP is fun when there is no BiS build and every build is somewhat easy to hard counter. But you could be very close to the top of any class with Zaan, Heavy Sload, and a recovery set of you're choice. Survivability, Sustain, Damage - you should be forced to choose, not be great at all 3.

mojomood · June 2018

rimmidimdim wrote: »

Taylor_MB wrote: »

Sloads is not a problem by itself, very few things are a problem in a vacuum.

Sloads is a problem when stacked with many other sources of unmitigatable damage. The cherry on top is adding way over tuned defile into the mix.

Adding way over tuned defile into the mix? Defile was added to the mix a long time ago. It is strong but not op. We have dealt with it a long time now. I have to say I don't finds sloads way op either, unless four opponents are all hitting me with it. But then I can say that about any set or skill or whatever.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not disagreeing that sloads and defiles are strong, I just don't experience the way op ruined the game kinda thing. Cheers.

Sloads may not be OP, but it requires no choice. 4 players of different classes with different builds can all equip sloads and win. The organized zerg meta is its own thing, but for small group play, building for survivability + sloads and focusing the same enemy wins. That is too simple of a strategy. Boring.

Lexxypwns · June 2018

lazerlaz wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

Not in noCP PvP. Witchmother/Dubious puts you at 17k health without any other health boni. Passives can increase this to ~20k. For more you need to trade other stats ...

I'm an Argonian nightblade using
Tri stat glyphs
skoria
sheer venom
agility
master bow
run a bow dps pvp setup
COLOVIAN LAVA FOOT SOUP (Max stam, stam recovery) food
No extra points into health

and hit 20-21k health in BGs....

Not sure what kind of potato setup you run for 17k health using dubious.

Your build has ~5 lines of HP in it between tri-glyphs, Skoria 1pc, and Argonian passives. And you’re still in the dangerous range of health where you can’t recover from sload pressure+burst combo against equally skilled opponents. Especially if defiled.

@mojomood recovery sets are for pugs, run Sload+Durok+Zaan and use 2x infused regen glyphs, GG

Thogard · June 2018

Sloads pushes a lot of dot builds over the edge into really dangerous territory.

You have to understand that this game is played in the margins. If you’re healing for 4K/s and taking dots worth 4K/s dmg, then you’re at a break even.

If you then throw defile on that person, healing goes down to 2k/s, so they’re now losing 2k/s health... but that’s not terrible. You can eat that up with dmg shields or some clever kiting.

Now here comes sloads. Does another 1k/s. Yeah it might be only 1k but it increases the net dmg received (damage per second minus heals per second) by 50%. And it’s oblivion dmg, so no resisting it. All of the sudden your health is going into execute range in 6s instead of 9s... and someone who would be on the offensive to burst down a dot build now has to play defensive before they can line up their burst combo.

For these dot builds, sloads is the straw that broke the camels back... where in this case the camel is a regular, respectable PvPer.

pdebie64b16_ESO · June 2018

After using Sloads for a few days now on my solo Stam NB Sniper: It makes life abit easier against Sorcs and Templars, i still have problems with DK,s and i dont see much difference against other Nightblades.

In zergs, blobs, keep defense/attacks its abit easier to get some kills before overun by multiple players and even with a class cannon build its possible to counter Sloads.

I think its good there is a set now that makes life for perma blockers/tanky/healing and shielding players abit more difficult.

Ankael07 · June 2018

pdebie64b16_ESO wrote: »

After using Sloads for a few days now on my solo Stam NB Sniper: It makes life abit easier against Sorcs and Templars, i still have problems with DK,s and i dont see much difference against other Nightblades.

In zergs, blobs, keep defense/attacks its abit easier to get some kills before overun by multiple players and even with a class cannon build its possible to counter Sloads.

I think its good there is a set now that makes life for perma blockers/tanky/healing and shielding players abit more difficult.

Youre getting carried by your armor against tanks (who are the counter for glass-cannon builds like yours) and ironically against healers (you can counter them with Snipe's defile).

Your argument for Sload is some people's argument against it. Let that sink in for a moment

H4RDFOX · June 2018

After getting into psijic order the first day and looking at crafted sets I saw sloads. Decided to make CP150 purp sloads, with purp enchants, threw on another 5 piece spider cultist, and 2 willpower jewelry. Went around pve'ing for the psijic order skill line to be fully unlocked. So far I think Sloads is an awesome set, and I do well supporting other people in a fight (BG, small scale cyro). The complaint, like many others in forums, are due to folks dying and raging over it. I main a mNB, and I enjoy every aspect of the class even through the nerfs. Major defile being an issue because of CP amplification, how about light attack CP amplification as well, its there! These pitchfork mobs are serious, and its a breed that will never die out unless someone comes up with logic and reason as to why things remain in place. I don't know what the criteria is for 1vX, but in my opinion those situations should be rare, beast mode should not be easy, and hats off to the person who can wreck in that way given all the nerfs to date.

People want to feel powerful, because power in many ways is contagious. Stop looking to label an ability or attribute as OP, and step your game up. I sure have, and I by no means am a beast, but I think I do well managing my abilities/resources, and using light attacks as it is meant to. If you think Major Defile is OP with CP, there is no reason to stop there. How about the added healing, or the added shield power, or the added resource gain. How about you switch your CP around, work with the numbers, theory craft against builds. This isn't for thread starter, but everyone else looking at major defile as a problem.

Syncronaut · June 2018

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Nightblades are worse than Sloads.

I am Nightblade with sload, your worst nightmare

But for a set, it works in bouth cp and no cp areas pretty well.

Burst a target from stealth
--- ) is your target dead? (yes/no)
Yes--- well that was easy
No--- hide and wait for sload to kill your target, while preparing another attack combo
---) Did you target die from a dot? (yes/no)
Yes--- probaly just a newbie in tank set
No--- Attack!!!!!
---)is it dead? (yes/no)
Yes-- well finaly
No--- ignore this target and look for another victim

Joy_Division · June 2018

Wing wrote: »

what a flippen disappointment.

you would thing based on the amount of tears recently shed on the forums that the god himself created this set to kill mass amounts of pvp players.

That's not what a lot of players who have criticized the sload's set have been saying. You aren't even trying to comprehend the other side of the argument so of course you're going to come away unconvinced after trying it.

IZZEFlameLash · June 2018

Considering most HoTs are only less or little bit stronger than what Sload's can dish out when you are not running a dedicated healing setup, it eats up your healing ticks. Which means other source of damages will get you sooner or later. And it is very easy to proc. Pair that with Major Defile, it is increasing your net damage taken even more. There's no way to mitigate its potency. There's no way for you to deal with it other than purge spam which might or might not remove it in this world of debuffs.

Dredlord · June 2018

Taylor_MB wrote: »

Sloads is not a problem by itself, very few things are a problem in a vacuum.

Sloads is a problem when stacked with many other sources of unmitigatable damage. The cherry on top is adding way over tuned defile into the mix.

You're zeroing in on it here, the real problem is defile being overtuned. It needs to be slightly adjusted and not nerfed to hell.

Dredlord · June 2018

Wing wrote: »

what a flippen disappointment.

you would thing based on the amount of tears recently shed on the forums that the god himself created this set to kill mass amounts of pvp players.

even before I crafted it I was disappointed in it, looking at the numbers I was just scratching my head trying to figure out how ~5k damage over 6 seconds was so terrifying. but figured based on the amount of screaming on the forums that its just something you have to try.

so I did.

and I was disappointed.

I can only assume that a series of other conditions are met to put sloads as the "cherry on top" of the death of so many players. (fighting outnumbered, being defiled, poisoned, etc.) and maintain that sloads is just a current "death crutch" to complain about.

-tries to 1vX massive zerg
-fails miserably
-sees sloads in the death recap
-obviously it was to blame!

deconed it, went back to my usual set up, still don't get the crying, whatever.

*trolls back into pvp*

Thank you, finally someone who's knee isn't jerkin. Tell the scrubs how it is.

Berenhir · June 2018

Thogard wrote: »

Sloads pushes a lot of dot builds over the edge into really dangerous territory.

You have to understand that this game is played in the margins. If you’re healing for 4K/s and taking dots worth 4K/s dmg, then you’re at a break even.

If you then throw defile on that person, healing goes down to 2k/s, so they’re now losing 2k/s health... but that’s not terrible. You can eat that up with dmg shields or some clever kiting.

Now here comes sloads. Does another 1k/s. Yeah it might be only 1k but it increases the net dmg received (damage per second minus heals per second) by 50%. And it’s oblivion dmg, so no resisting it. All of the sudden your health is going into execute range in 6s instead of 9s... and someone who would be on the offensive to burst down a dot build now has to play defensive before they can line up their burst combo.

For these dot builds, sloads is the straw that broke the camels back... where in this case the camel is a regular, respectable PvPer.

Quoted for truth.

Xsorus · June 2018

Thogard wrote: »

Sloads pushes a lot of dot builds over the edge into really dangerous territory.

You have to understand that this game is played in the margins. If you’re healing for 4K/s and taking dots worth 4K/s dmg, then you’re at a break even.

If you then throw defile on that person, healing goes down to 2k/s, so they’re now losing 2k/s health... but that’s not terrible. You can eat that up with dmg shields or some clever kiting.

Now here comes sloads. Does another 1k/s. Yeah it might be only 1k but it increases the net dmg received (damage per second minus heals per second) by 50%. And it’s oblivion dmg, so no resisting it. All of the sudden your health is going into execute range in 6s instead of 9s... and someone who would be on the offensive to burst down a dot build now has to play defensive before they can line up their burst combo.

For these dot builds, sloads is the straw that broke the camels back... where in this case the camel is a regular, respectable PvPer.

So you're saying that Dots are suddenly broken by a 1k dps dot was added to the game *grin*

Joy_Division · June 2018

Xsorus wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Sloads pushes a lot of dot builds over the edge into really dangerous territory.

You have to understand that this game is played in the margins. If you’re healing for 4K/s and taking dots worth 4K/s dmg, then you’re at a break even.

If you then throw defile on that person, healing goes down to 2k/s, so they’re now losing 2k/s health... but that’s not terrible. You can eat that up with dmg shields or some clever kiting.

Now here comes sloads. Does another 1k/s. Yeah it might be only 1k but it increases the net dmg received (damage per second minus heals per second) by 50%. And it’s oblivion dmg, so no resisting it. All of the sudden your health is going into execute range in 6s instead of 9s... and someone who would be on the offensive to burst down a dot build now has to play defensive before they can line up their burst combo.

For these dot builds, sloads is the straw that broke the camels back... where in this case the camel is a regular, respectable PvPer.

So you're saying that Dots are suddenly broken by a 1k dps dot was added to the game *grin*

An unresistable DOT that doesn;t take any effort to apply, on top of befoul amped CP, when hit by another proc set on a "tank" build that isn't supposed to do damage, if it's not broken, it's still not good design or something that promotes interesting gameplay or build choices.

Derra · June 2018

Wing wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

25% of a typical health pool in no-CP every 6 seconds. Nah, not strong...

Sure, it’s at its strongest when combined with Duroks, bleeds, etc. however, let’s not pretend it’s good alone.

I’ll say it again, in no-CP every 6 seconds you lose 25% of your health pool and there’s very little you can do about it. That’s without any other damage factored in.

pffft, any decent players can go through 100% of most health pools (baring any form of "tank") in less then half the time.

and saying its 25% is also silly, that means 20k hp with the 5k cyro buff meaning 15k-ish HP base means you are go for broke DPS and have probably done nothing to stay alive (aside from shield spam, roll dodge spam, cloak spam, etc.) a stiff breeze would nock these players over and I doubt sloads is the critical factor in what's putting them in the grave.

Pretty much a strawman @Wing

First of all: Sload deals 7 hits of damage which result in total dmg being 5971 - that means HP we´re talking about when you remove 25% is 24k - so 19k hp base. That´s not a broke DPS build.
Furthermore lexxy plays nonCP meaning 20% less stat increase - that puts 24k cyrodiil hp in a very HP invested territory.

So are you really into crutch defense or do you not understand what you talk about?

Feanor · June 2018

@H4RDFOX

You “stepped up your game”, ironically by equipping the set. That’s very funny. I just don’t understand why people justify effortless damage all the time. But you give the very reason - Power is contagious, and the lesser skilled players want power too. From that end you can see why the set is bad design - it’s there to close a skill gap the lesser skilled player could never overcome on his own, because equipping a (crafted, not even requiring 9 traits, easy to get) set is much easier than actually “stepping up your game”.

Vapirko · June 2018

Thogard wrote: »

Sloads pushes a lot of dot builds over the edge into really dangerous territory.

You have to understand that this game is played in the margins. If you’re healing for 4K/s and taking dots worth 4K/s dmg, then you’re at a break even.

If you then throw defile on that person, healing goes down to 2k/s, so they’re now losing 2k/s health... but that’s not terrible. You can eat that up with dmg shields or some clever kiting.

Now here comes sloads. Does another 1k/s. Yeah it might be only 1k but it increases the net dmg received (damage per second minus heals per second) by 50%. And it’s oblivion dmg, so no resisting it. All of the sudden your health is going into execute range in 6s instead of 9s... and someone who would be on the offensive to burst down a dot build now has to play defensive before they can line up their burst combo.

For these dot builds, sloads is the straw that broke the camels back... where in this case the camel is a regular, respectable PvPer.

This is well said. But a lot of players, especially most of the ones inclined to rely on sloads, wont get this because - based on my encounters with most sloads users - they’re not terribly experienced. So we likely have a lot of people defending it who aren’t in a place where they’re playing “in the margins” yet. Or at least they’re not aware of it. I think most of the people arguing against this set are pkaye

Joy_Division wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Sloads pushes a lot of dot builds over the edge into really dangerous territory.

You have to understand that this game is played in the margins. If you’re healing for 4K/s and taking dots worth 4K/s dmg, then you’re at a break even.

If you then throw defile on that person, healing goes down to 2k/s, so they’re now losing 2k/s health... but that’s not terrible. You can eat that up with dmg shields or some clever kiting.

Now here comes sloads. Does another 1k/s. Yeah it might be only 1k but it increases the net dmg received (damage per second minus heals per second) by 50%. And it’s oblivion dmg, so no resisting it. All of the sudden your health is going into execute range in 6s instead of 9s... and someone who would be on the offensive to burst down a dot build now has to play defensive before they can line up their burst combo.

For these dot builds, sloads is the straw that broke the camels back... where in this case the camel is a regular, respectable PvPer.

So you're saying that Dots are suddenly broken by a 1k dps dot was added to the game *grin*

An unresistable DOT that doesn;t take any effort to apply, on top of befoul amped CP, when hit by another proc set on a "tank" build that isn't supposed to do damage, if it's not broken, it's still not good design or something that promotes interesting gameplay or build choices.

@Joy_Division super glad you’re in the class rep program.

Thogard · June 2018

Xsorus wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Sloads pushes a lot of dot builds over the edge into really dangerous territory.

You have to understand that this game is played in the margins. If you’re healing for 4K/s and taking dots worth 4K/s dmg, then you’re at a break even.

If you then throw defile on that person, healing goes down to 2k/s, so they’re now losing 2k/s health... but that’s not terrible. You can eat that up with dmg shields or some clever kiting.

Now here comes sloads. Does another 1k/s. Yeah it might be only 1k but it increases the net dmg received (damage per second minus heals per second) by 50%. And it’s oblivion dmg, so no resisting it. All of the sudden your health is going into execute range in 6s instead of 9s... and someone who would be on the offensive to burst down a dot build now has to play defensive before they can line up their burst combo.

For these dot builds, sloads is the straw that broke the camels back... where in this case the camel is a regular, respectable PvPer.

So you're saying that Dots are suddenly broken by a 1k dps dot was added to the game *grin*

Yes because DOTs stack. Giving a free 1k DPS dot that stacks on top of every other dot and doesn’t require a GCD to apply is the DPS equivalent of giving every Stam Burst dmg build an extra 1500ish wep dmg. Probably more.

raasdal · June 2018

Thogard wrote: »

Sloads pushes a lot of dot builds over the edge into really dangerous territory.

You have to understand that this game is played in the margins. If you’re healing for 4K/s and taking dots worth 4K/s dmg, then you’re at a break even.

If you then throw defile on that person, healing goes down to 2k/s, so they’re now losing 2k/s health... but that’s not terrible. You can eat that up with dmg shields or some clever kiting.

Now here comes sloads. Does another 1k/s. Yeah it might be only 1k but it increases the net dmg received (damage per second minus heals per second) by 50%. And it’s oblivion dmg, so no resisting it. All of the sudden your health is going into execute range in 6s instead of 9s... and someone who would be on the offensive to burst down a dot build now has to play defensive before they can line up their burst combo.

For these dot builds, sloads is the straw that broke the camels back... where in this case the camel is a regular, respectable PvPer.

So... DoT Builds OP ?

But i do get the point. Problem is, this is nothing new. There are a load of other sets out there, that does the same or more damage than Sloads. Viper is a perfect example for that DoT build you are referring to here. Why is no one crying about Viper in this OP DoT build you are referring to?

I have now tried Sloads on all Classes and Specs, and i have been in the receiving end as well.

Only thing "broken" is the Cloak-breaking IMO. Everything else is not directly related to Sloads, but at Oblivion Damage as a whole.

But i don't think there is any stopping this QQ train.

Feanor · June 2018

Only thing "broken" is the Cloak-breaking IMO. Everything else is not directly related to Sloads, but at Oblivion Damage as a whole.

So it would be fine if NBs weren’t affected by it? The DoT ticking does very little if you can’t hit an invisible opponent otherwise. I know, cloak has counters. But any good NBs knows how to kite effectively given the class tools.

Oblivion Damage as a concept should be a PvE mechanic for Trials or harder dungeons. It shouldn’t be accessible to player vs player scenarios.