Would you like overland content difficulty increased?

EvilAutoTech · June 2018

Other (Post!)

I'm not really concerned about whether Craglorn ever worked or why it died but doesn't anyone remember how empty your faction's silver and gold zones were?

I could roam Auridon for hours and see less than five other players the whole time. Most of the time it was only at the forge in Vulkhel Guard. Most of the high CP players were hanging out in Stonefalls, harassing the noobs in zone chat.

I would not mind optional difficulty settings but I don't see a very positive ROI for ZOS.

Aesthier · June 2018

No

EvilAutoTech wrote: »

I would not mind optional difficulty settings but I don't see a very positive ROI for ZOS.

^ a thousand times over.

They could implement a hardcore character mode at the character select screen which enabled veterans to create a toon that would suffer a permanent debuff that reduces all stats by a certain percentage on that specific character.

They could still play with their friends while enjoying the increased difficulty of "all" content.

Hell ZoS could even implement new titles for those who complete certain content using said toons.

This makes much more sense than creating new servers or implementing some type of toggle for players which lends itself to more breakage.

Just a simple lifetime debuff that is applied to the character on creation.

idk · June 2018

No

DuskMarine wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Zacknafein77 wrote: »

Yes

But i would like to see one option server where everything is difficult and you have to gather a group for questing, i will love that, in mmo where you do eveything alone is a bit strange for me, that is the 2 reasons i dont like questing in this game, its boring and to easy. I understand ppl like do stuff in fast pace or farming materials as fast as possible, but its annoying whenl you enter in one delve and see one guy skiping all the mods running to the boss and kill it in 2 seconds.

We had this in a zone where solo was essentially not possible, well, some of us could solo the large groups of trash mobs. It died and it is now all Soloable except the trials. It is called Craglorn.

the vets gotta have somewhere to keep them occupied cant always provide for casuals

It was vet content, designed exclusively for vets as group content and had more challenge than anything open world. My point that seems to be missed by everyone who quotes it, it was nerfed. It became unused.

However, we vets still have somewhere to keep us occupied and challenged.

Plenty in fact. dungeons, vet dungeons, vet HM dungeons, vMA, vet trials and vet HM trials. I left out the normal dungeon and normal trials, but technically they are there as well..

MLGProPlayer · June 2018

Yes

Soella wrote: »

Healthy game needs both majority of casual players and small but respected group of hardcore players. Questing is about - surprise! surprise! - questing, not challenge - don't break it. But I agree that game does not have enough challenging content and ability to show off achievements. I would love to have one vMA. Another option would be ability to enter in "veteran delve" - all CP turned off, a bit more HP for mobs - minimal development needed, average level of challenge added. A few very solo challenging achievements which will give special mount or skin would be cool as well.

Craglorn has "veteran" and casual delves. That's perfect for overland.

They can even just create a normal and veteran instance of every delve so they don't need to make more content than they would anyway. Just take the 6 delves and 2 public dungeons we have in every chapter and slap on a vet mode to them.

MLGProPlayer · June 2018

Yes

idk wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Zacknafein77 wrote: »

Yes

But i would like to see one option server where everything is difficult and you have to gather a group for questing, i will love that, in mmo where you do eveything alone is a bit strange for me, that is the 2 reasons i dont like questing in this game, its boring and to easy. I understand ppl like do stuff in fast pace or farming materials as fast as possible, but its annoying whenl you enter in one delve and see one guy skiping all the mods running to the boss and kill it in 2 seconds.

We had this in a zone where solo was essentially not possible, well, some of us could solo the large groups of trash mobs. It died and it is now all Soloable except the trials. It is called Craglorn.

the vets gotta have somewhere to keep them occupied cant always provide for casuals

It was vet content, designed exclusively for vets as group content and had more challenge than anything open world. My point that seems to be missed by everyone who quotes it, it was nerfed. It became unused.

However, we vets still have somewhere to keep us occupied and challenged.

Plenty in fact. dungeons, vet dungeons, vet HM dungeons, vMA, vet trials and vet HM trials. I left out the normal dungeon and normal trials, but technically they are there as well..

But they don't have any quest content, which is the vast majority of the content in this game.

And Craglorn, in its current state, is what people want. It's the perfect mix of casual and veteran content. Not sure why you're using it as a "negative". Old Craglorn sucked, but new Craglorn is perfect. ZOS clearly knows how to design a zone with content for both new and veteran players.

monktoasty · June 2018

No

No..it's fine.

Unless they increase gold and drops

AlnilamE · June 2018

Yes

ecru wrote: »

Bosses need more health. Delve bosses, public dungeon bosses, quest bosses, etc. I don't care about trash mobs, but it's really disappointed when you finish a long quest line and kill the "boss" in 4 seconds before they get any of their voice lines off.

Pretty much. Bosses should have mechanics that you need to use in order to defeat them. Nothing exceedingly complicated, but something like block their attacks in order to damage them, step out of certain areas to prevent them from healing.

I would like the fight to take long enough that we can hear their dialogue, but they don't necessarily have to hit too hard.

My guild likes running group events and one of the things we do is take the group areas in Craglorn, including the Elinhir Sewers daily quest. The final boss will say "This one will not be defeated!" not long into the fight, and our running joke is trying to kill her before she finishes that line. We pretty much always get it.

Trash mobs are fine as they are, and we don't need to take longer to get from quest objective A to quest objective B. But the bosses should feel like a boss, not like some random temp guy that stole the bosses' badge for the day.

idk wrote: »

Zacknafein77 wrote: »

Yes

But i would like to see one option server where everything is difficult and you have to gather a group for questing, i will love that, in mmo where you do eveything alone is a bit strange for me, that is the 2 reasons i dont like questing in this game, its boring and to easy. I understand ppl like do stuff in fast pace or farming materials as fast as possible, but its annoying whenl you enter in one delve and see one guy skiping all the mods running to the boss and kill it in 2 seconds.

We had this in a zone where solo was essentially not possible, well, some of us could solo the large groups of trash mobs. It died and it is now all Soloable except the trials. It is called Craglorn.

Honestly, you guys like dissing Craglorn, but it is an amazing zone. It was just poorly implemented. If ZOS had made the quest line more easily shareable right off the bat, it would have been more successful.

I spent so much time in Craglorn from the time I was Vet 4 or so. It taught you to be careful around mobs, evaluate what you could and couldn't take on if your ulti wasn't up. Which nodes you could harvest without aggro.

I also did the quest line on several characters before they updated it, and ran through the daily quests with guildies. They are really well done and were the right amount of challenge where you could get them done but it wasn't too easy.

Have you ever been to the Rahni-za School of Warriors? Shada's Tear? Did you know that Skyreach Catacombs actually has a quest line that goes beyond they little grinding area everyone goes to? I remember the first time I went there and we got to the last boss and we couldn't beat him. And then we decided we were going back on New Year's Eve and we did and got it completed. It was a lot of fun.

Anyway. I digress. I think a bit more challenge in non-solo quest bosses would not be a bad thing. Solo is different because you can't get help, and now you can't really outlevel the content anymore (I'm looking at you Doshia and Duchess of Anguish!)

But nobody is suggesting every quest boss be turned into Rakkath, the Fang of Lorkhaj.

Trash can stay as it is, since it is trash.

Kolache · June 2018

Yes

People keep mentioning VR levels, old craglorn, and caldwell's silver/gold as if the issue there was difficulty?

People didn't stop playing that game because it was too hard. They stopped playing because grinding VR levels was tedious and not shared across characters. It was this plus the fact that every few months new content would boost the VR level and you'd not only have to level again but the gear you had gotten thus far was already obsolete.

crjs1 · June 2018

No

No the difficulty is fine as it is, last thing I want is having to spend time killing mobs while questing or farming. For me it’s about the lore, exploration and story. When I want ‘challenging’ content I will pvp or jump into a vet dungeon.

Casuals - which isn’t a bad word - are what keep the game going, ESO will die if it alienates new players by bowing to pressure from a vocal minority of vet max players.

MLGProPlayer · June 2018

Yes

crjs1 wrote: »

No the difficulty is fine as it is, last thing I want is having to spend time killing mobs while questing or farming. For me it’s about the lore, exploration and story. When I want ‘challenging’ content I will pvp or jump into a vet dungeon.

Casuals - which isn’t a bad word - are what keep the game going, ESO will die if it alienates new players by bowing to pressure from a vocal minority of vet max players.

It's hardly a minority anymore when the yes-no split in this poll is 41%-52%. We're pretty close to an even split.

And nobody wants to make overland harder for everyone. We just want an option for higher difficulty content (vet delves, public dungeons, quest instances) or a toggle to turn off CP.

Kuwhar · June 2018

No

How many of those that voted yes are the same players that roll in the giant dolmen zergs?

Genuinely curious.

Linaleah · June 2018

No

MaleAmazon wrote: »

Forums by nature are populated by the more serious players, so data is going to be skewed. It's just like how the auction house threads are always skewed because all the trade barons are on here chirping about healthy economies while Johny Newplayer is sitting in game wondering why he can't sell his gear anywhere and staying perpetually poor.

I honestly don´t think overland difficulty is pertaining to *hardcore* players... Hardcore players don´t really quest to begin with, they run veteran trials and complain about a 0.46% DPS loss in the latest patch...

I compare it to Skyrim, seems the closest comparison. I felt way more threatened there. When I wanted to attack a bandit camp I´d try to get a sneak shot on one or two bandits to even the odds. I often had to pay some kind of attention to my health bar and the enemy. When I encountered a sabre-tooth tiger early I had to RUN! Run, not look back, thank the gods I survived, and then go plot how to improve myself. That frost troll near the top of the 7000 steps... that was a pain.

In ESO when I see a bandit camp I put an arrow in each bandit, have them follow me, pick up a sabre-tooth tiger or two on the way, pick up a giant by sniping him, and then procede to turn them into dead pincushions in 5 seconds.

I don´t expect ESO to be like Skyrim, but let´s not pretend Skyrim was anywhere as easy as ESO.

on easy difficulty it was. and therein lays a rub. for the most part with very few exceptions - single player games come with 3 to 7 (or more sometimes) difficulty settings. creating a difficulty setting for an open world in an MMO is a bit more... challenging. which is why they need to default to the easiest playable setting when it comes to open world.

and contrary to some claims, I at least am perfectly FOR creating optional difficulty setting for instanced content. delves, public dungeons, quest instances - bring those on. as i have mentioned before, they should even give better (but not unique) rewards. but not everyone asking for increase in difficulty in this thread is willing to go for this compromise. quite a few people are specifically asking for the game to be made harder in general. at least the way it was at launch (because losing a large chunk of playerbase once is just not enough apparently, lets drive off people again >_> )

AlnilamE · June 2018

Yes

EvilAutoTech wrote: »

I'm not really concerned about whether Craglorn ever worked or why it died but doesn't anyone remember how empty your faction's silver and gold zones were?

I could roam Auridon for hours and see less than five other players the whole time. Most of the time it was only at the forge in Vulkhel Guard. Most of the high CP players were hanging out in Stonefalls, harassing the noobs in zone chat.

I would not mind optional difficulty settings but I don't see a very positive ROI for ZOS.

The reason the Silver and Gold zones (particularly the Gold zones) were empty was because they were quest locked and there was an instance for each alliance, so you didn't meet people from the other factions.

I was limited as to which character I could take because I hadn't completed the quest lines on all of them.

dsalter · June 2018

Yes

but only a tiny bit, honestly with no cp and stuff its kind of meh, a few levels in and your squashing no probs, near the end of a zone you get the hang of the game and start steamrolling because you worked out the AI is awful and their stats are abysmal.

so a tiny pump up would help the newer players get alittle more grasp of combat as atm with light attack buff you can literally right click to win, overland anyways.

Jemcrystal · June 2018

Other (Post!)

I have repeatedly asked for giant roaming mob(s) to break up the monotony.

Keep the world easy. Regular players have forgotten what it was like to start this game for the first time. It is intimidating to many. A lot of people this is their very first mmorpg. They do not have our advantage who have played mmos our whole lives. They came from single player Skyrim where the difficulty could be set and reset and your progress saved and backed up. Not so here. They need the easier world to adjust. These newbies are a huge part of zos' income and they are still flooding in.

Yet you have a valid point. Older players could use some new unique challenge in beginner areas.

One enormous roamer that crossed zones would be awesome. A beast you cannot take down without five plus raids. Moving all over the beginner areas. Not staying in one spot so as bother the newbs over much. Adding an unpredictable excitement for new and old player. Not a dragon (for reasons that have been discussed) but something that would make up for the loss of not having dragons in ESO. Because we did loose that coming from Skryim.

Kamatsu · June 2018

No

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

crjs1 wrote: »

No the difficulty is fine as it is, last thing I want is having to spend time killing mobs while questing or farming. For me it’s about the lore, exploration and story. When I want ‘challenging’ content I will pvp or jump into a vet dungeon.

Casuals - which isn’t a bad word - are what keep the game going, ESO will die if it alienates new players by bowing to pressure from a vocal minority of vet max players.

It's hardly a minority anymore when the yes-no split in this poll is 41%-52%. We're pretty close to an even split.

And nobody wants to make overland harder for everyone. We just want an option for higher difficulty content (vet delves, public dungeons, quest instances) or a toggle to turn off CP.

~41% of a vocal minority. Guess what - forums do not reflect the whole population base. In fact only a very small % of a games players ever visit forums for a game - and these are generally the hardcore, lore buffs or those otherwise attached to the game/world/lore/etc. WoW, LotRO, STO, Rift, etc have had dev's opening stating this - that on average only 12-15% of their players ever visit the forums. So these forum polls are meaningless & unrepresentative of the games population.

Here's the major telling point that those who seek challenges are in the vast minority in ESO:

- EVERY single openworld 'challenging' content, apart from World Bosses, has been either nerfed or removed.

Why would ZOS spend money nerfing or removing challenging content if the majority, or a significant portion of players, liked it? They wouldn't. The reason they nerfed Craglorn and removed the Veteran area's is because they were failures in game design and did not retain players for the game.

Most people never went to Craglorn due to it being 'group only' and difficult fights as well. Veteran area's were barren and empty because they were too time consuming due to the 'challenge' of trying to fight mobs & grind level's.

People were leaving the game because of hitting the difficulty barrier, where they either had the choice of rolling an alt to experience the other stories or leave the game. If people weren't leaving, and thus losing ZOS revenue, why would they spend money to make overland easier, to make Craglorn soloable, etc?

Do you really think ZOS will now spend money to basically reverse these decisions and go back to losing player's,a nd thus have lower revenue due to this? Right when they have found lots of nice whales to milk with ever increasing cosmetic items in the Crown Store? lolz

MaleAmazon · June 2018

Other (Post!)

They came from single player Skyrim where the difficulty could be set and reset and your progress saved and backed up. Not so here. They need the easier world to adjust.

Well, your progress is automatically saved and backed up here. As someone who pressed quicksave as many times as he pressed the attack button in TES3, this is very welcome...

And you have a tutorial plus newbie island (discounting the weird idea to drop people in the middle/end of the storyline now). The game is looooooong. There is no reason to create content that´s storywise 100 hours into the game and go "we have to assume people don´t know how to block".

The reason they nerfed Craglorn and removed the Veteran area's is because they were failures in game design and did not retain players for the game.

They were failures in game design, but has been pointed out, not because they were too hard.

Before I could solo Craglorn I could not complete Craglorn, since I could not find others on the same part of the quest. vDSA still has this problem, I´ve completed it once but don´t want to shout for an hour to get a group going again, which could fall apart 3 hours later and noone gets a complete.

You are absolutely right that ZOS could choose to solely cater to people who want to kill everything in 1-2 hits, not worry about any enemy threat, and spend cash on virtual pets. I hope they don´t.

DieAlteHexe · June 2018

No

,,,

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

crjs1 wrote: »

No the difficulty is fine as it is, last thing I want is having to spend time killing mobs while questing or farming. For me it’s about the lore, exploration and story. When I want ‘challenging’ content I will pvp or jump into a vet dungeon.

Casuals - which isn’t a bad word - are what keep the game going, ESO will die if it alienates new players by bowing to pressure from a vocal minority of vet max players.

It's hardly a minority anymore when the yes-no split in this poll is 41%-52%. We're pretty close to an even split.

And nobody wants to make overland harder for everyone. We just want an option for higher difficulty content (vet delves, public dungeons, quest instances) or a toggle to turn off CP.

Hardly a minority of forum readers who generally tend to be tilted to the not-very-casual side of things.

That said, I absolutely support some sort of toggle or way of providing harder content for those who want it. Can't see any harm to that at all and if it'll stop these threads, I'll even give 'em a go.

Facefister · June 2018

No

Facefister wrote: »

No, instead I would see a third difficulty for atleast the non-dlc dungeons which scales them up to CP300 or more. These also have a random chance to drop gold jewelry of their respective sets.

Biro123 · June 2018

Other (Post!)

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

,,,

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

crjs1 wrote: »

No the difficulty is fine as it is, last thing I want is having to spend time killing mobs while questing or farming. For me it’s about the lore, exploration and story. When I want ‘challenging’ content I will pvp or jump into a vet dungeon.

Casuals - which isn’t a bad word - are what keep the game going, ESO will die if it alienates new players by bowing to pressure from a vocal minority of vet max players.

It's hardly a minority anymore when the yes-no split in this poll is 41%-52%. We're pretty close to an even split.

And nobody wants to make overland harder for everyone. We just want an option for higher difficulty content (vet delves, public dungeons, quest instances) or a toggle to turn off CP.

Hardly a minority of forum readers who generally tend to be tilted to the not-very-casual side of things.

That said, I absolutely support some sort of toggle or way of providing harder content for those who want it. Can't see any harm to that at all and if it'll stop these threads, I'll even give 'em a go.

I'm also tempted to think that those who voted other want some kind of limited (to certain zones, or with difficulty options ) difficulty increase. Otherwise they would have simply said no.

DieAlteHexe · June 2018

No

Biro123 wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

,,,

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

crjs1 wrote: »

No the difficulty is fine as it is, last thing I want is having to spend time killing mobs while questing or farming. For me it’s about the lore, exploration and story. When I want ‘challenging’ content I will pvp or jump into a vet dungeon.

Casuals - which isn’t a bad word - are what keep the game going, ESO will die if it alienates new players by bowing to pressure from a vocal minority of vet max players.

It's hardly a minority anymore when the yes-no split in this poll is 41%-52%. We're pretty close to an even split.

And nobody wants to make overland harder for everyone. We just want an option for higher difficulty content (vet delves, public dungeons, quest instances) or a toggle to turn off CP.

Hardly a minority of forum readers who generally tend to be tilted to the not-very-casual side of things.

That said, I absolutely support some sort of toggle or way of providing harder content for those who want it. Can't see any harm to that at all and if it'll stop these threads, I'll even give 'em a go.

I'm also tempted to think that those who voted other want some kind of limited (to certain zones, or with difficulty options ) difficulty increase. Otherwise they would have simply said no.

Could be. I've seen all sorts of proposals as to how this might work and reactions, good and bad.

If ZoS has the time and resources to take on a project like this, fine by me. Just as long as the default remains as is.

AlnilamE · June 2018

Yes

Kamatsu wrote: »

Most people never went to Craglorn due to it being 'group only' and difficult fights as well. Veteran area's were barren and empty because they were too time consuming due to the 'challenge' of trying to fight mobs & grind level's.

People were leaving the game because of hitting the difficulty barrier, where they either had the choice of rolling an alt to experience the other stories or leave the game. If people weren't leaving, and thus losing ZOS revenue, why would they spend money to make overland easier, to make Craglorn soloable, etc?

After the nerf that happened just after launch to the veteran areas (which I never experienced), they were no more challenging than the normal areas if you were at level.

And if you were a thorough quester, you would always be above the level of the zone, so it was easier.

On top of that, the vet zones had the advantage of always giving you XP, whereas in the sub-50 areas you stopped gaining XP after you were 5 levels above the mobs.

But a lot of people didn't want to spend time completing the questlines to unlock the vet zones. Which is why they were sparsely populated, and Gold more so than Silver.

YamiKuruku · June 2018

Other (Post!)

Only if it would be optional. I don't have problems with overland, neither do endgame players. I know.

But i do know that especially new players are having alot of problems.
I sometimes see it when playing with my girlfriend (or encountering new players generally) that she has a hard time with specific mobs and it would be unfair for players that are new and need to learn alot to make mobs too hard for them.

Maybe ZOS could try to do a better craglorn, a new zone that is a bit harder but i am sure then half of the people would say it's too "hard" and the other one would say "its too easy" and there we go, we can't make everyone happy i guess

MaleAmazon · June 2018

Other (Post!)

I sometimes see it when playing with my girlfriend (or encountering new players generally) that she has a hard time with specific mobs and it would be unfair for players that are new and need to learn alot to make mobs too hard for them.

While I agree with the sentiment, there´s also this:

How are people ever going to learn unless they´re challenged?

Learning pretty much per definition means failing, usually more than once.

You are taught when to block and when to interrupt in the tutorial. At the moment, I only have to block or interrupt on some veteran bosses. I do it other times too, but I don´t really have to. And this is on a character with virtually nothing invested in health.

DieAlteHexe · June 2018

No

MaleAmazon wrote: »

I sometimes see it when playing with my girlfriend (or encountering new players generally) that she has a hard time with specific mobs and it would be unfair for players that are new and need to learn alot to make mobs too hard for them.

While I agree with the sentiment, there´s also this:

How are people ever going to learn unless they´re challenged?

Learning pretty much per definition means failing, usually more than once.

You are taught when to block and when to interrupt in the tutorial. At the moment, I only have to block or interrupt on some veteran bosses. I do it other times too, but I don´t really have to. And this is on a character with virtually nothing invested in health.

They learn via grouping with guildies or friends. They learn by doing delves or dungeons and working up the line of difficulty. They learn by reading how others have accomplished "x" and then going out and giving it a go. They learn by marching up to glowing portals and poking them (LOL, that would be me).

Plus, not all folk CARE about doing "end-game" content. I don't. It's of no interest to me so I'm not fussed about needing to learn much more than I already know.

DuskMarine · June 2018

Yes

idk wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Zacknafein77 wrote: »

Yes

But i would like to see one option server where everything is difficult and you have to gather a group for questing, i will love that, in mmo where you do eveything alone is a bit strange for me, that is the 2 reasons i dont like questing in this game, its boring and to easy. I understand ppl like do stuff in fast pace or farming materials as fast as possible, but its annoying whenl you enter in one delve and see one guy skiping all the mods running to the boss and kill it in 2 seconds.

We had this in a zone where solo was essentially not possible, well, some of us could solo the large groups of trash mobs. It died and it is now all Soloable except the trials. It is called Craglorn.

the vets gotta have somewhere to keep them occupied cant always provide for casuals

It was vet content, designed exclusively for vets as group content and had more challenge than anything open world. My point that seems to be missed by everyone who quotes it, it was nerfed. It became unused.

However, we vets still have somewhere to keep us occupied and challenged.

Plenty in fact. dungeons, vet dungeons, vet HM dungeons, vMA, vet trials and vet HM trials. I left out the normal dungeon and normal trials, but technically they are there as well..

craglorn wasnt ever unsused quite the contrary to a huge fan base of farmers craglorn was one of the best zones in the game(outside of dlcs at the time as they were the only ones that had 160 mats) but what made craglorn so special was because it was harder than hell. i had a whole guild that before they turned crag into a marshmellow were already soloing everything because we farmed it on a daily basis. and there were many many many more like us as craglorn was quite packed contrary to popular belief. it was the best farming spot because it was a high level access only basically spot. it stopped bots even with how hard the mobs could hit them. now craglorn is just riddled with noobs bots and erpers. an as far as you saying vets have plenty to keep us occupied no we actually dont. not when youve beaten everything 100s if not thousands of times we need some more difficulty stuff added to the game for veterans.

Integral1900 · June 2018

Yes

When a zone main quest boss dies in three shots... something is broken...

DuskMarine · June 2018

Yes

Integral1900 wrote: »

When a zone main quest boss dies in three shots... something is broken...

when it dies in one something is definitly wrong

mav1234 · June 2018

As a player that just started in November but am now over 600 cp, I would say a small power increase to overland coupled with a very large nerf to what cp gives you would be better than an increase to world alone. This would allow content to be more difficult without penalizing new players. Overland stuff isn't that easy when first starting the game.

DieAlteHexe · June 2018

No

DuskMarine wrote: »

Integral1900 wrote: »

When a zone main quest boss dies in three shots... something is broken...

when it dies in one something is definitly wrong

You can one shot a main quest mob? Man, I'd *love* to see that. I might learn something!