DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

TheInfernalRage wrote: »

Increasing it may hinder the grinding capabilities of new players either fresh 50 or fresh CP 160. Those who want more challenge can always wear casual sets for questing (or go naked and use boxing) or remove their CP allocations (since many seems to hate it anyway). There are ways to maneuver within the current range of difficulty right now. However, if one raises the difficulty, newer players will have a hard time grinding for CP especially the casual ones who simply wear whatever gear they can pickup along the way.

As is always the case with games like ESO, the dilemma is always the balance between feeling the power that the character developed all along (because that's the point of all the BiS [sic.] and guides after all) and the inversely proportional level of challenge that the character meets as it becomes more powerful.

Unless someone can prove that he or she is wrecking anything and destroying world bosses naked overland, then I'm voting NO.

then dont complain when you have a server full of millenials at end game that cant actually play the game. this argument is about the viability and future of ESO

Can't play what part of the game? Vet content? If so, many (most?)aren't even interested in it. It requires a perspective and dedication that many casuals don't have or don't want to bother with.

Not everyone has the same goal(s). I don't care about vet content for myself. It's of no interest. I do think that it should be in the game and done well for those who do care about it. However, I don't think that the statement that because some players (and it has to be a minority or else the game would have been crafted entirely differently) feel that Overland content isn't difficult enough that it should be changed for them. In fact the opposite happened which lead to One Tamriel.

Mechanics are mechanics. They can be taught or figured out the hard way if someone comes up through the levels and has a change of heart regarding the desire to do vet/end game content.

no its a core game flaw design. that's the issue, they went from vertical progression to a vieled linear progression system. it works for a churn base game design. but it does not equate long term player populations. their is no permanent community here its a turn style visitor center. its why there are no launch guilds still alive and very little launch player population that stuck with the game like older generations of MMOs . ZOS found their cash cow and set to milking it. SORRY FOR THE ATTACK ON MILLENNIALS lol i know feelings get hurt rather easy these days.

It went from vertical to what it is now because the vertical wasn't working out.

As for the "no permanent community", beg to differ. I know and see folk who've been here since beta.

Honestly not sure where you are playing that you're getting these ideas from.

And I'm not a Millennial. I wish! LOL, I'm 65 years old and no "feelings" were hurt. I just happen to disagree with your perspective and support what ESO has become because it is more inclusive (ergo more players, more money, longer life).

Well i cant say i agree with you. the community that played since beta is non existent.out of 2500 people i had in guilds and friends lists none have touched the game other then to come back for Imperial city and ive purged these lists several times, i had several voice coms that were full of active guilds all are dead. I was here since first phase closed beta. when you stack eso up against other mmos that were able to keep communities for 4 years post launch. ESO does not have that. I dont think there are any launch guilds . if there are alive their leadership is non existent form the launch leadership. im 48 so yes im an older gamer as well. My issue is the content does nothing to prepare you for end game now. its mind-numbingly easy quest content or extreme difficulty trials. I am not asking for un accomplishable content in overlad at least put some teeth in it past lvl 50.

This creates issues at end game and is why many of the elitists attitudes are actually encouraged by ZOS's design. simply put they are tired of teaching a consitently churning population how to play, build ,and gear properly. add a compounding leaderboard that has only been built upon DPS and how fast you can complete content it only breeds more elitism.

I know a few casuals who are so let's say.... Unskilled... That current overland content is too challenging for them.

I think overland needs to be a place where everyone has a chance to solo. Even the new players and the really bad ones. So an increase in challenge would work against that intent for overland content.

Chose the wrong option should have chosen for "other".

Just add a vet mode and I'll be coming back, and will probably bring friends along with me.
I don't want to force a more difficulty on other people, just give me options.

Would ensure I dont sub again or come back

DuskMarine wrote: »

we need the difficulty to increase with area and level not cater to the noobies they need to go through exactly what we all did. they keep catering to casuals kicking their vets in the face all the time that its old.

As one of those lazy casuals...

Well, I don't want it set to Veteran difficulty. And I find the group-mob mechanics boring. More hitpoints, anyone? Yeah, lemme keeps spamming, oooo, look, I am elite!

Just give the overland mobs a bit more damage per attack. As is it, I can basically ignore their attacks as I burn them down, lowbie and 160s alike. At least make the mob's red-zone attacks hit harder.

I wouldn't mind seeing hit-point and damage mechanics change a bit, like percentages instead of points. But then i miss to-hit rolls and dynamic attribute-systems too.

~looks for his cane~

Forums by nature are populated by the more serious players, so data is going to be skewed. It's just like how the auction house threads are always skewed because all the trade barons are on here chirping about healthy economies while Johny Newplayer is sitting in game wondering why he can't sell his gear anywhere and staying perpetually poor.

I honestly don´t think overland difficulty is pertaining to *hardcore* players... Hardcore players don´t really quest to begin with, they run veteran trials and complain about a 0.46% DPS loss in the latest patch...

I compare it to Skyrim, seems the closest comparison. I felt way more threatened there. When I wanted to attack a bandit camp I´d try to get a sneak shot on one or two bandits to even the odds. I often had to pay some kind of attention to my health bar and the enemy. When I encountered a sabre-tooth tiger early I had to RUN! Run, not look back, thank the gods I survived, and then go plot how to improve myself. That frost troll near the top of the 7000 steps... that was a pain.

In ESO when I see a bandit camp I put an arrow in each bandit, have them follow me, pick up a sabre-tooth tiger or two on the way, pick up a giant by sniping him, and then procede to turn them into dead pincushions in 5 seconds.

I don´t expect ESO to be like Skyrim, but let´s not pretend Skyrim was anywhere as easy as ESO.

MaleAmazon wrote: »

Forums by nature are populated by the more serious players, so data is going to be skewed. It's just like how the auction house threads are always skewed because all the trade barons are on here chirping about healthy economies while Johny Newplayer is sitting in game wondering why he can't sell his gear anywhere and staying perpetually poor.

I honestly don´t think overland difficulty is pertaining to *hardcore* players... Hardcore players don´t really quest to begin with, they run veteran trials and complain about a 0.46% DPS loss in the latest patch...

I compare it to Skyrim, seems the closest comparison. I felt way more threatened there. When I wanted to attack a bandit camp I´d try to get a sneak shot on one or two bandits to even the odds. I often had to pay some kind of attention to my health bar and the enemy. When I encountered a sabre-tooth tiger early I had to RUN! Run, not look back, thank the gods I survived, and then go plot how to improve myself. That frost troll near the top of the 7000 steps... that was a pain.

In ESO when I see a bandit camp I put an arrow in each bandit, have them follow me, pick up a sabre-tooth tiger or two on the way, pick up a giant by sniping him, and then procede to turn them into dead pincushions in 5 seconds.

I don´t expect ESO to be like Skyrim, but let´s not pretend Skyrim was anywhere as easy as ESO.

You clearly didn't put 400 hours into Skyrim then. Enchanting > alchemy > blacksmithing loop your sword to 150 damage and armor values to soft cap and you'll never worry about those silly little bandits (or dragons) again.

As for when you're starting out, I'll admit some games are harder but as someone who decided to go in blind (no guides / forums / etc), I had a REALLY tough time starting out in this game. I could barely solo the overland bosses at the ends of the questlines. I think you're forgetting what life was like before CP and all passives unlocked.

And lastly, skyrim doesn't really compare because you can just pause the game and take 55 potions and eat 10 sweetrolls before going back to fighting. You can prep your way to victory. I remember back in oblivion I had a series of potions with 10 minute durations that basically made me a god when I took them all at once. I could fight naked and win. I went the route of blacksmith scumming in Skyrim instead, but I digress.

When I first played the game when it was released on XBox, I struggled with it. I mean, literally, struggled with it. I was not alone. The game is vastly different today than it was back then, and whether it's "better or worse" will always remain subjective.

I bring up the past for one important element: Mannimarco.

Yeah, I can see many veterans recall their first ever meeting with the boss. The guy was tough. Not because he had a gajillion HP, but because he was a master sorcerer and he threw everything he had at you.

Now that was a damn good fight! The best I've had in the game.

I will admit several classes struggled with him (and you think the game is unbalanced now), especially NBs (guess what I played), but I will say there was a great satisfaction when I finally took him down.

I didn't do it on sheer hope, or run in circles. I adapted my skills. When he attacked, I parried and hit him with everything I had.

I didn't button mash to defeat him, which is what I walked in with (as I did most other "bosses" in the game). It took several attempts, but how he fought me finally dictated how I fought him.

And succeeded. I practically scared my wife when I rose from the chair screaming of victory. Well done, ZoS. That's immersion.


What I think this game needs is a class of enemies that played as the original Mannimarco did. Not just spam spells over and over with tons of health (as current bosses do), but offers a calculating attack strategy in which players had to overcome in order to defeat.

Recently, I tried to take down Shadowrend by myself. I lost, but I never expected to win. I wanted to pit my current skills against a boss designed to be taken down by multiple players. I heard he was a good boss to fight at normal.

Shadowrend was no Mannimarco. The attacks were static, easy to see coming. The *only* reason I died is because I got too close when, at 750k, it changed its pattern (the shadow came out and jumped me, the jerk).

I was more impressed I got it down to750k than I was angry I died.

I can easily see why many people believe this game has become too easy. When you've reached the apex, and have done well to build a character, fighting against patterns isn't "rewarding".

It's memorizing mechanics, not fighting a boss worth of throwing out tons of skills. When people fight against patterns, the game gets boring to them quickly.

After all, almost all the top players now play like robots: build + rotation = *yawn* inducing game "mechanics".

Bosses need to change their attacks, to take the group's vulnerabilities and play against them. Spamming the same attacks over and over opens the door to memorization of patterns.

This is why the original Mannimarco fight remains my favorite and best: he didn't just attack me with spammed repeats. He moved when I attacked. He retaliated with spells I was not equipped to handle well. He owned me until I started to learn his weaknesses.

And as an NB back then, defeating him felt gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood.

I haven't experienced this feeling since, though one day, I hope to come close as I defeat a world boss solo.

This game has changed in the 4 years since its release. To say it caters to the "casual" isn't fair.

The game caters to those who seek to be in the 5% who trial and group, giving everyone who wishes to partake the same experience.

It's just unfortunate many will never get to this level, either because they'll continue to button mash to victory or just don't have the passion to be the best.

There's nothing wrong with that, but the game can't cater to both at the same time. Changes are necessary.

You clearly didn't put 400 hours into Skyrim then. Enchanting > alchemy > blacksmithing loop your sword to 150 damage and armor values to soft cap and you'll never worry about those silly little bandits (or dragons) again.

I´ve put more hours into TES than can be considered mentally healthy for anyone. Yup, if you didn´t roleplay but preferred to powergame, you could become quite powerful in Skyrim.

And then you could change the difficulty to legendary.

I think you're forgetting what life was like before CP and all passives unlocked.

No, I´ve played quite a few alts, and I haven´t forgotten it - that´s why I want it back in the first place! It was largely more fun. Again, the main problem in ESO is that since everything is autolevelled to CP160, it essentially inverts the difficulty; everything becomes easier and easier as you progress, rather than giving you more challenges. Once you understand basic attack rotation and the necessity for self-heal, that´s it. No more solo challenge for you, unless you go vMA or try to solo group content.

I don´t have a perfect answer for this, the best I have is to put in a manual difficulty slider that works on the player´s stats. I don´t think ZOS or anyone can scale the world to suit everyone, and attempts to have the game try to scale things to your level have failed in the past; remember Oblivion´s major-skills-as-minor debacle...

And lastly, skyrim doesn't really compare because you can just pause the game and take 55 potions and eat 10 sweetrolls before going back to fighting. You can prep your way to victory.

Yeah but I don´t think combat in Skyrim was really designed that way. You could impose house rules or use some mod, I guess. But you could still get oneshotted in Skyrim. It did seem like they intended the difficulty to prove challenging to people. And in general, that all-you-can-eat health buffet was one of the relatively few things that was left after they got rid of most things people did to make themselves gods; potion stacking, selling crap potions to creeper, levitating (I miss :'( ), swimming with an eraser on your keyboard to get athletics to 100...

idk wrote: »

Zacknafein77 wrote: »

Yes

But i would like to see one option server where everything is difficult and you have to gather a group for questing, i will love that, in mmo where you do eveything alone is a bit strange for me, that is the 2 reasons i dont like questing in this game, its boring and to easy. I understand ppl like do stuff in fast pace or farming materials as fast as possible, but its annoying whenl you enter in one delve and see one guy skiping all the mods running to the boss and kill it in 2 seconds.

We had this in a zone where solo was essentially not possible, well, some of us could solo the large groups of trash mobs. It died and it is now all Soloable except the trials. It is called Craglorn.

Oh Craglorn, thanks for the pointless information

Absolutely not.

Bosses need more health. Delve bosses, public dungeon bosses, quest bosses, etc. I don't care about trash mobs, but it's really disappointed when you finish a long quest line and kill the "boss" in 4 seconds before they get any of their voice lines off.

Healthy game needs both majority of casual players and small but respected group of hardcore players. Questing is about - surprise! surprise! - questing, not challenge - don't break it. But I agree that game does not have enough challenging content and ability to show off achievements. I would love to have one vMA. Another option would be ability to enter in "veteran delve" - all CP turned off, a bit more HP for mobs - minimal development needed, average level of challenge added. A few very solo challenging achievements which will give special mount or skin would be cool as well.

I’m a crazy person who likes things insanely hard but I’ve come to find out that I’m in the minority. Let people face roll the open world stuff and pick flowers in peace.