Androconium wrote: »

The price you get from MM or TTC is unique to you. Other players will always have something different.

That said, the problem you described is avoided in most major guilds by banning WTB/WTS in guild chat.
So yes, bad form on your part, in that regard.

MM - You are correct.
MM is a copmilation of data from your guilds since you have been a member of those guilds and is solely based on sales history.

TTC - No. - This is the same for everyone
TTC is the same for everyone as long as you are running the client to update the database.
TTC shows Listings only, Min Max and Avg. The reccomendations from TTC are almost always well below the average price.

As for saying bas form on the OP's part. He has stated several times that his guild rules did not have any rules against it.

Seems like a "Game Life (Trading) Lesson" to me.

I sell in starter zone Guild Stores at 50% to 100% more than I would be able to sell in other places, also I work on sales at micro level 25 qty or so for mats. 150 to 200 Guild Store sales a day.

If then I want to put a buy ad in one of these starter zone guild stores I consider the price expectations of members. Normally I rarely look for items in Guild chat.

I am very much for the approach of distributed sales that is there throughout the game, it reflects the system we see in world commerce with varying prices depending on location.

I can spend up to 500k if i visit all the stores in the game and from this I make about 300k profit. I have 3 groups of stores,

• Busy Traffic Areas
• Hubs (3 or more stores) but not main traffic areas
• All the rest

I realise some players are very price protective and there is nothing to be done other than walk away from that conversation.

It is in all sellers interest to not "break" the market price. Up to a 20% variation is in my opinion OK but outside that then there is the possibility to reset the base price.

Example 1: I wanted to buy about 20 Hakeijo for a good price, I suggested 9k ea in zone chat and of course there were some zone price monitors who needed to say their thing. I just dont't hang around and get involved, plenty more zones. I did find a seller for the price I was looking for and he was happy to take my 180k gold

Example 2: Using TTC I follow the listings of Aetheric Cipher, over the last 2 weeks there has been 2 at 1.5 mill, 1 at 1.6 mill and 1 at 1.7 mill gold. I want one for myself just I was too slow for the listed ones. So using this TTC guide I have been doing zone ads to buy at 1.6 mill, some PM's were not so friendly and for me, I really don't understand what its all about.

The trading system in ESO is great, it is free to choose a sale price and even choose a buy price. Those who are vocal in opposition to some players presenting their sales or buy requests really don't see that all this is transitory, maybe one or two days at the most and when prices shift regularly in ESO just Chill and have fun

Androconium wrote: »

The price you get from MM or TTC is unique to you. Other players will always have something different.

That said, the problem you described is avoided in most major guilds by banning WTB/WTS in guild chat.
So yes, bad form on your part, in that regard.

TTC price is the same for everyone. MM price is unique to you depending on the guilds you're in.

MM price is extremely unreliable unless you are in multiple, very large trading guilds. Accurate price data is probably limited to a few thousand players or more. Everyone else should probably go off of the TTC price.

SugaComa wrote: »

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

A lot of these "random" people talking about how the officer was doing nothing wrong sound a little like the people involved Just waiting for one to say "hun" haha.

Listen Hun .. stop refering to us as "random" people we're forum members dufus

Hun... I'm a five star show some respect

Crapgame wrote: »

I belong(ed) to 5 trading guilds since I usually play solo I only need a guild so I can sell my wares.

I've been leveling my crafting so I need bunches of materials. I started yesterday and needed Ebonthread. TTC showed it for 12 on the low end so I asked my guilds if anyone would sell me stacks at 2k each. Many people sent me stacks at that price (10 each).

Today, I've moved onto Kresh fiber and again the low end was 12-15, however the average was 22. I asked the same guilds if anyone would sell me stacks at 2k each. I had a few takers and bought 550 at 10g each.

It is all good up to that point. Then I saw messages in guildchat.

This is the conversation that followed from there:

• Guild member: Um, sorry hon, but the TTC for Kresh Fibre is double that. TTC Price for [Kresh Fiber] : Suggested : 21 ~ 26 [Avg 44.41/Min 4/Max 14,153.33] (206 listings/18,940 items) So a stack would be 4k.
• Me: People do sell below MM price. I just received 550 units @10. So there is that, hon.
• Guild member: Good for you, but please don't try to rip off your fellow guildmates by asking for mats below market value. It's kinda rude.
• Guild member: If you negotiate a lower price, of course, that's totally fine. But asking for it outright... yeah, sorry, love, but I can't let that happen. Sorry.
• Me: People with extra mats and all slots full will accept a lower price. I'm not twisting anyones arm. You're not "letting anything happen." If they don't want to sell, they won't.
• Me: I only asked one time and got more than enough so obviously people think that is fair enough
• Guild member: you are speaking to an officer. Show some respect. This is your second warning, because I know that you did this yesterday and another officer told you not to. This is not "one time" this is the second. Don't ask for items under market value and don't be an arsehole when we let you know what the market value is, on the of chance it was a genuine mistake.
• (I went AFK here.)
• Guild member: Well?
• Guild member: Answer me.
• Guild member: Very well.
• Guild member #2: bye.
• (I return and find I've been kicked from the guild.)
• Tell to guild member: I had to go afk. I have no hard feelings about any of this. You're an officer so you are allowed to do what you'd like. In many guilds, people will freely trade things below fair value as that is one of the major benefits to a trading guild. Each member is entitled to sell his wares at whatever price suits them. For instance, I had asked to buy some ebonthread @10 and instead someone sent me 100 units for 0. That was their decision. I was only offering a price.
• r/ from Guild member: Yeah, I wasn't the one who kicked you. I was busy sending out guild mail at the time, which I would have had to start all over again if I exited the mail ui and entered the guild ui, and given the fact MailR tends to take a full half hour to send otu mail, I wsn't going to do it. It was another officer who kicked you.
• r/ to guild member: Also, I was never "warned" of anything. Someone just mentioned that the price was below market and we left it at that. It doesn't matter who kicked me. As I said, no hard feelings.
• r/ from Guild member: I relly, truly hope there aren't, and I hope you can find a good home trade guild, but... well, I'm sorry; but we can't allow such drastic undercutting. I mean, like I said, if you negotiate it between yourselves that's a different issue, but asking for it outright? That's just devaluing the hard work that went into getting those mats in the first place.
• r/ to Guild member: There aren't. However, I was kicked for doing nothing wrong other than looking to buy some mats from my guildmates. Not looking for handouts. "Undercutting" is a mischaracterization of a "request to buy" in guild chat. I read the rules. There is nothing in there about not requesting trades at below MM values. Just as there is no penalty for requesting more than fair market value for an item.
• (No more replies.)

I am serious when I say there are no hard feelings. That is why I haven't named any names. Every guild is free to operate as they choose.

The reason I'm posting this long winded story is that I want to make sure I'm not being inconsiderate in this situation. Is it bad form to ask for prices below market value when you're buying in guildchat from your guildmates? If it is, I will refrain from doing so. However, it doesn't make any sense to me at all. I sent out that same request to all of the other guilds that I'm in and received plenty of Kresh.

Whoever kicked you was being ridiculous. This post is ridiculous. End of story. Move on.

LMAO what guilds are you in? PM me @Crapgame if you want a good trading guild that won't start drama

I haven't read all six pages of this thread, but to comment on the opening post - the guild officers are in the wrong and suffering from the 'gotta flex my power' syndrome.

If you make an offer and people take you up on it, that's between you and them. They can always post a comment warning everyone that X is below market value, MM says it's this and make sure everyone is making educated decisions before selling to you, but telling you not to and kicking you - you should find a new guild anyway at that point. And then kicking you when you didn't do anything on top of that, yea - better off going elsewhere.

Also, "hard work getting the mats" ?? lol, c'mon now officer - we know most of the community that is actually into crafting has stacks of those mats from nothing but turning in writs and having them build up in the crafting bag.

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

degarmo_ESO wrote: »

I've been a guild leader forever.

Nothing irks me more than someone saying publicly that you should give more respect to them because they're an officer of the guild. This is not because people should not respect each other, but it's a public power ploy/play. You take that to tells, always. If you publicly demand respect from someone you don't know, and act all indignant about it, you shouldn't be an officer, leader, or anyone of any "power" in any structure, because you're not ready to lead.

Maybe I have that view becuase I've been around the block a couple thousand times.

You're better off not being there, becuase it would have been one thing or another. Now that you're gone, someone else will be sacrificed when the sweet opiate of this "drama-high" fades and they're in need of some more emotional skooma.

So right, Kudos

Yeah, I agree that OP's account of what happened makes the Officer involved sound like a jerk; and I agree that if there is not a guild rule against begging for lowball prices in gchat, then kicking somebody for such an offense is not the right solution. In fact I don't really think the OP did anything wrong, I have just seen this behavior grow to become a daily annoyance, "Oh great here's [So-And-So] spamming gchat for 75% off Temp Alloys."

Many players are happy to help guildies, even at a considerable personal loss, in order to strengthen the guild or just to be a nice person, some might feel guilty if they can't help. Some players are still happy to help when they see the same person ask for handouts or extreme discounts day after day after day. Some are not, and will stop offering help to that player. Some will feel taken advantage of and stop helping other players altogether. Maybe they're thinking "nobody subsidized my crafting levels."

My point is this is a social game with real people behind those avatars, being inconsiderate can damage your relationships and your reputation. If your actions offended someone, maybe try to see their point of view to understand why before heading to the forums for affirmation.

I don't see that you did anything wrong other than trying to get your point across instead of saying ok thank you for the info and leaving the guild LOL. No written rule. So you didn't break any rules.
The officer mentioned you were told yesterday in chat. That IMO should have been mailed for if you went AFK or were in a trial and missed it. If they have a 'spoken' rule it needs to be put in writing and should have been mailed to you. 2k difference is nothing really and I am unsure why it was made to seem like you were undercutting. 5k or more would raise a red flag.

If it is not written no trading in guild chat, how is one supposed to know it is against the rules?
Guild, be very specific in listing your rules, not everyone is in guild chat to know what is implied as they don't read chat every day.

I am in 2 trade guilds as I left the others (I simply don't sell enough). One I am sociable in. Will come back to this one.

Guild 2... They do have a rule in place of no selling in chat Written rule so know right off the back.

Now the one I am sociable in. No written rule anymore (at one point it was written as long as vender is hired no selling in chat because that takes the tax profit that would have been gotten from the vender). Now, we simply ask if you sell in chat to please make a 10% deposit into the bank. Its an honor system and most do so. However, personally, I still make it a point not to buy/sell in chat. If someone offers to sell something and I want it, I ask them to place it in store and I will buy it as soon as it is listed. If someone asks in chat to buy something needed to finish a writ or to craft something and is only asking for a stack, I generally just give it for free as I have so much (craft bag love here). Had you asked to buy that in this guild, it would be fine as 1. no written rule 2. at no point does anyone HAVE to sell it to you at that price. You can ask all you want if someone thinks it is to low they simply won't sell.

Crapgame wrote: »

I belong(ed) to 5 trading guilds since I usually play solo I only need a guild so I can sell my wares.


[*] Guild member: you are speaking to an officer. Show some respect. This is your second warning, because I know that you did this yesterday and another officer told you not to. This is not "one time" this is the second. Don't ask for items under market value and don't be an arsehole when we let you know what the market value is, on the of chance it was a genuine mistake.[

The attitude of this "officer" is one of the reasons why I'd like to see guild traders dead and gone and a central auction house put in it's place. Why does ESO foster such elitism?

I resent having to be in a guild trader. I'm not going to sell in /zone etc because I dislike that just as much and it feels less secure, but though the guild trader I'm currently in doesn't seem to be as full of self-important personalities, I still feel imprisoned in it just so I can sell the odd thing here and there.

ESO just scrap it and put in a central auction house for the love of sanity.

Slick_007 wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

Your ex-guild officers are 100% wrong and their elitist attitudes is in part what makes this game suck. Of course I don't blame them, I blame the design of the trade system in that it allows for these kinds of attitudes to surface and flourish.

yes, of course, blame the trade system that wasnt even used and had no bearing on what happened. Thats a typical response from you.

@Slick_007 The situation occurred in the trade system.....without it there wouldn't have been an issue. I mean, I know the topic is complex...well....no, not really. It's not complex at all. Keep up.