If you are looking for a bargain then you are "taking advantage."

Crapgame · June 2018

I belong(ed) to 5 trading guilds since I usually play solo I only need a guild so I can sell my wares.

I've been leveling my crafting so I need bunches of materials. I started yesterday and needed Ebonthread. TTC showed it for 12 on the low end so I asked my guilds if anyone would sell me stacks at 2k each. Many people sent me stacks at that price (10 each).

Today, I've moved onto Kresh fiber and again the low end was 12-15, however the average was 22. I asked the same guilds if anyone would sell me stacks at 2k each. I had a few takers and bought 550 at 10g each.

It is all good up to that point. Then I saw messages in guildchat.

This is the conversation that followed from there:

Guild member: Um, sorry hon, but the TTC for Kresh Fibre is double that. TTC Price for [Kresh Fiber] : Suggested : 21 ~ 26 [Avg 44.41/Min 4/Max 14,153.33] (206 listings/18,940 items) So a stack would be 4k.
Me: People do sell below MM price. I just received 550 units @10. So there is that, hon.
Guild member: Good for you, but please don't try to rip off your fellow guildmates by asking for mats below market value. It's kinda rude.
Guild member: If you negotiate a lower price, of course, that's totally fine. But asking for it outright... yeah, sorry, love, but I can't let that happen. Sorry.
Me: People with extra mats and all slots full will accept a lower price. I'm not twisting anyones arm. You're not "letting anything happen." If they don't want to sell, they won't.
Me: I only asked one time and got more than enough so obviously people think that is fair enough
Guild member: you are speaking to an officer. Show some respect. This is your second warning, because I know that you did this yesterday and another officer told you not to. This is not "one time" this is the second. Don't ask for items under market value and don't be an arsehole when we let you know what the market value is, on the of chance it was a genuine mistake.
(I went AFK here.)
Guild member: Well?
Guild member: Answer me.
Guild member: Very well.
Guild member #2: bye.
(I return and find I've been kicked from the guild.)
Tell to guild member: I had to go afk. I have no hard feelings about any of this. You're an officer so you are allowed to do what you'd like. In many guilds, people will freely trade things below fair value as that is one of the major benefits to a trading guild. Each member is entitled to sell his wares at whatever price suits them. For instance, I had asked to buy some ebonthread @10 and instead someone sent me 100 units for 0. That was their decision. I was only offering a price.
r/ from Guild member: Yeah, I wasn't the one who kicked you. I was busy sending out guild mail at the time, which I would have had to start all over again if I exited the mail ui and entered the guild ui, and given the fact MailR tends to take a full half hour to send otu mail, I wsn't going to do it. It was another officer who kicked you.
r/ to guild member: Also, I was never "warned" of anything. Someone just mentioned that the price was below market and we left it at that. It doesn't matter who kicked me. As I said, no hard feelings.
r/ from Guild member: I relly, truly hope there aren't, and I hope you can find a good home trade guild, but... well, I'm sorry; but we can't allow such drastic undercutting. I mean, like I said, if you negotiate it between yourselves that's a different issue, but asking for it outright? That's just devaluing the hard work that went into getting those mats in the first place.
r/ to Guild member: There aren't. However, I was kicked for doing nothing wrong other than looking to buy some mats from my guildmates. Not looking for handouts. "Undercutting" is a mischaracterization of a "request to buy" in guild chat. I read the rules. There is nothing in there about not requesting trades at below MM values. Just as there is no penalty for requesting more than fair market value for an item.
(No more replies.)

I am serious when I say there are no hard feelings. That is why I haven't named any names. Every guild is free to operate as they choose.

The reason I'm posting this long winded story is that I want to make sure I'm not being inconsiderate in this situation. Is it bad form to ask for prices below market value when you're buying in guildchat from your guildmates? If it is, I will refrain from doing so. However, it doesn't make any sense to me at all. I sent out that same request to all of the other guilds that I'm in and received plenty of Kresh.

Raideen · June 2018

Your ex-guild officers are 100% wrong and their elitist attitudes is in part what makes this game suck. Of course I don't blame them, I blame the design of the trade system in that it allows for these kinds of attitudes to surface and flourish.

I have seen similar things go down in trade guilds I have been in. Some serious abuse of power because the GL or officer took issue with another player and in every case I witnessed the player did nothing wrong. It was a misunderstanding on the GL or officers part.

Its amazing that someone can play the game for 2 months, get in a trade guild and witness this kind of behavior that ZOS apparently thinks is ok, and nothing is done about it.

VaranisArano · June 2018

If its a guild policy that you pay market price to guildies, follow the guild policy or find another guild. There's a lot of guilds. In sure you can find one that's a better fit.

If it isnt guild policy, the officers shouldn't be enforcing it like it is.

Personally, I sell mats at my MM price. If someone doesn't like it, oh well. I'll list on the guild trader and watch it sell for the MM price. I don't do bargains for bulk sales because I can be patient and wait for someone to pay full price.

Nyladreas · June 2018

What can I say... Welcome to the Internet. I've seen things like this so many times over the course of many years spent in MMOs that it doesn't surprise me anymore. Someone had a bad day and felt like they needed to exercise their ingame Authority for a stupid *** reason. And they're 100% wrong.

It's as simple as that. If it was me I would've smiled and laughed it off instead of being so butthurt. It's crazy people like that get officer ranks so often. At least you know where you stood in there. Afterall, you were never forcing anyone or deluding anyone. People that are already in trading guilds should be familiar with prices, and it's easy to check if they don't want to sell at it. Like you said, if someone wants to buy it, they will. That's the end.

I recently switched main trading guilds and went from depressed member to super satisfied and happy in a much better community

It's all about what kind of community you join. And sometimes they even may seem like super fun and friendly at first, until you find that noone cares LOL.

I'd say shake it off and move on, find a different place

Crapgame · June 2018

I never even mentioned that the same TTC price that was quoted back to me said: [Kresh Fiber] : Suggested : 21 ~ 26 [Avg 44.41/Min 4/Max 14,153.33]

Which means that someone out there is trading this at 4.

Anyway, thanks for the replies. It makes me feel a bit better that I wasn't being unreasonable here.

danno8 · June 2018

A fine example of why many people don't want to have to join Guilds just to sell their stuff on the market.

Selling stuff shouldn't have to be a group activity.

**INSERT DEAD HORSE MEME HERE**

(Let the arguing begin!!)

MLGProPlayer · June 2018

If guildies offer you the items at a discount, it's cool (they usually do). But if you're actively soliciting underpriced items in guild chat, that's pretty lame.

DanteYoda · June 2018

This is called Dramas and why you are better off being kicked.. I would have left anyway..

Find a better guild with friendly people... Its a game and people who cannot understand that do not deserve your time imo..

Rohamad_Ali · June 2018

Most of my friends and I just give each other mats when we need so whatev , move on I guess .

Betsararie · June 2018

What you're highlighting is a gray area.

If it is a free speech guild, anyone can ask to buy anything they'd like, for any price, and for any reason they want.

If the guild is policed by admins who attempt to control free speech in chat, requesting items at certain prices may be looked down upon depending on which items are requested and what prices are being requested.

Something like this is up to the Guildmaster's discretion. If you were kicked by an admin, they were within their rights to do so.

degarmo_ESO · June 2018

I've been a guild leader forever.

Nothing irks me more than someone saying publicly that you should give more respect to them because they're an officer of the guild. This is not because people should not respect each other, but it's a public power ploy/play. You take that to tells, always. If you publicly demand respect from someone you don't know, and act all indignant about it, you shouldn't be an officer, leader, or anyone of any "power" in any structure, because you're not ready to lead.

Maybe I have that view becuase I've been around the block a couple thousand times.

You're better off not being there, becuase it would have been one thing or another. Now that you're gone, someone else will be sacrificed when the sweet opiate of this "drama-high" fades and they're in need of some more emotional skooma.

dannymcgr81b14_ESO · June 2018

This is a prime example of why I'm not in a guild. I play this game to relax and enjoy myself. I don't want to deal with people like your officers.

Greevir · June 2018

A lot of guild are cautious when someone is asking for stuff at a significantly lower cost than what it normally is. Some people will ask for stuff cheap in one guild and turn around and sell it in another at the high price.

Greevir · June 2018

The officer that kicked you is a coward though. Waiting for you to go afk to kick you.

ErinGoBrag520 · June 2018

All the passive aggressive "loves" and "huns" alone would have me out of there!

jssriot · June 2018

Most trade guilds I've been in restrict selling/buying via the guild chat one way or another and how you belong to 5 trade guilds yet are new to this practice, I do not know and that alone makes me question your motives here. Playing the innocent for people's sympathies, maybe? Dunno, but honestly, you don't seem completely on the level here and I'll leave it at that.

Acrolas · June 2018

TTC represents listed price regardless of if the item actually sold. MM is more indicative of what an item sold for, but I would never use it as a strict market value as MM is entirely dependent upon how many and which guilds it's recording data from. So I don't feel any guild can have a strict policy on market price unless they're providing a comprehensive and readily available guide of their own.

However, nearly every guild has a sales-related rule or two that may not be represented in this thread so I can't say whether the guild's actions were predictable.

Crapgame wrote: »

That is why I haven't named any names.

You haven't, and never will, name names as naming and shaming against the community guidelines.

It keeps the community from taking sides in conflicts they only have partial information about.

My advice in the future is, if looking for bargains, use TTC's website as a starting point for listed prices and then search from the lowest recent one up. It's much harder to find conflict on a solo adventure.

Crapgame · June 2018

I did belong to 5 trade guilds but those are the first 5 guilds I've ever been a member of. Maybe "most" trade guilds restrict this behavior but none of the 5 that I have been in have anything like that in their rules. In fact, I only started posting in guildchat because I would see other guildees posting WTB/WTS in chat.

It's good to know that most guilds frown on this behavior as I had no idea. I will keep that in mind for the future when choosing a guild.

personman_145 · June 2018

Not sure I get this, you offered to buy at below market? To be honest, If I had mats I didn't need I'd sell below market just get it over with quickly. If it was a guildmate who wanted something I had I might not charge them at all. Offering less than market to buy is kinda crappy though. I'd probably just ask in guild chat, does anyone have such n such? What do you want for that? If they were pricing me out I'd just buy elsewhere.

I once gave 10k to a complete random who was looking to buy a horse. He needed the gold and didn't have it, I had the gold and didn't need it. Was not a big deal to me.

If a guildmate wanted them for something to benefit the guild, I'd probably just give them for free. For example, we have some vamps in my guild, including me. A friend is getting into alchemy. I told him I'd buy the double bloody mara recipe and give it to him, long as he makes some for the guild.

Mutual-aid brother.

MutualAds.org

Crapgame · June 2018

The problem with asking "does anyone have such and such" is that I don't want to waste people's time. Sure, everyone has some Kresh but if I already know what I'm looking to pay then it saves everyone time.

Also, this isn't a case of of ridiculous undercutting. If it was then I wouldn't have been able to buy as much as I did. This price is obviously acceptable to people. If I was offering 1g each then I would expect some backlash.

I researched my prices in advance. TTC would often show small lots going off at 10 but they'd be gone by the time I got there. My offer may be the low end but I'm not a motivated buyer. I'll get it eventually. If there is a motivated seller out there, he will sell to me. (And there were, and they did.)

Horowonnoe · June 2018

ErinGoBrag520 wrote: »

All the passive aggressive "loves" and "huns" alone would have me out of there!

Same! I hate it when people I am not good friends with or close do that to me. I am not your "love" hun from zone chat.You're drunk. Go home.

gr4yrang3r87 · June 2018

That guild obviously has some major power issues. I'm glad you didn't suck up to those idiots, move on and never look back!

klowdy1 · June 2018

Show some respect when talking to video game super stars. They hold a fake title in a fake world, and deserve you respect and admiration.

Seriously though, this game is one of the worst I've ever played as far as epeen goes. Consider yourself lucky you dont have to deal with THAT *** anymore, though, many more are out there.

Minyassa · June 2018

Congratulations on escaping from the Stepford Wives guild/cult. Consider yourself lucky to have gotten away with your reproductive organs, wits and spine intact; clearly those who stay long enough to be promoted do not.

AlienatedGoat · June 2018

"Bulk sales" in this game mean jack squat - you can always find stacks of mats in guild traders at and above market value.

Discounts on "bulk sales" simply don't work in a game where commodity items are literally a dime a dozen.

So yeah, you were taking advantage. You knew the market price and you purposely led with a far lesser ask price to snag unwary sellers - in your own guild. You were showing disrespect to your fellow traders by not offering a fair market price right off the bat.

Glad you're not in my guild or I'd kick you myself.

kts · June 2018

'you're speaking to an officer. Show some respect"

Slick_007 · June 2018

Raideen wrote: »

Your ex-guild officers are 100% wrong and their elitist attitudes is in part what makes this game suck. Of course I don't blame them, I blame the design of the trade system in that it allows for these kinds of attitudes to surface and flourish.

yes, of course, blame the trade system that wasnt even used and had no bearing on what happened. Thats a typical response from you.

Rain_Greyraven · June 2018

Actually that is a lot more polite than I usually get in game but, don't really see what the guild was whinging about.....there are trading guilds out there there are much more lax

Lady_of_Tamarah · June 2018

So what is the difference between guild and your Assistant then ? Do you get more gold if you sell through a guild?

Sounds to me that the officer has let their "position" go to their head and has become too "officious". Seen plenty of that in RL and its a form of bullying !! I am inclined to agree with others getting kicked did you a favour move on and find a friendlier guild.

I don't know the etiquette within a guild and if its not considered right to ask for mats below selling price but if other guild members wish to do so whats the harm ? Why are others up in arms ?

Looks like greed is overtaking kindness here. Keeping a price artificially high is probably good business sense but this is a game and it shouldn't be so rigid with the rules in that respect

Maybe ask for Mats at a lower price in the forum instead.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · June 2018

degarmo_ESO wrote: »

I've been a guild leader forever.

Nothing irks me more than someone saying publicly that you should give more respect to them because they're an officer of the guild. This is not because people should not respect each other, but it's a public power ploy/play. You take that to tells, always. If you publicly demand respect from someone you don't know, and act all indignant about it, you shouldn't be an officer, leader, or anyone of any "power" in any structure, because you're not ready to lead.

Maybe I have that view becuase I've been around the block a couple thousand times.

You're better off not being there, becuase it would have been one thing or another. Now that you're gone, someone else will be sacrificed when the sweet opiate of this "drama-high" fades and they're in need of some more emotional skooma.

This.

Malacthulhu · June 2018

Asking for items in a guild let alone a trade guild below average price is a red flag. People are in trade guilds to make gold not haggle in guild chat. Everything else, from a dispute to being kicked is irrelevant especially when you already have several trade guilds