Shield stacking must go
-
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Count to 4, and cc. It's not that hard.
Sounds like you've never faught a good sorc. That does work wonders against scrubs tho, you're right.THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Just one shield at the time.
They only last 6 seconds. At best you get maybe 5 seconds of “double shields” and if you try to keep 2 up constantly you’re gonna run out of magic with quickness.
Back in the day we used to have to deal with 20 second shield stackers. That was craziness.
Lich and eg are enough to almost guarantee this never happening. Then add in the exchanges or heavy weaves and you have endless sustain. Oh yes, that 2nd shield, harness magicka, does guarantee 0 sustain issues vs magicka.
Sorcs have no problem sustaining 2 or 3 shields.
Sure, if you are fighting a magicka player because of harness which isnt even a sorc ability.
If you are fighting a stamina player and you are shieldstacking every few seconds you'd be surprised how fast you run dry.
You know i assumed sorc was the topic, but it just says shield stacking.
@Stibbons are you taking about non sorcs?
Yes sorc is the topic. Im just saying. Harness is not a sorc ability. Anyone can sustain shields against magicka builds because of harness.
But ur point about sorc easily sustaining shieldstacking is simply false cause again it requires ur opponent to be a magicka player and u using harness both of which are actually completely irrelevant with sorcs. Against a stamina player you'd be surprised how fast you run dry if you try to constantly shieldstack.
It doesn't require fighting a magicka class. The are plenty of tools that provide plenty of resources to stack shields.
It doesnt require fighting a magicka class? Ok, put the numbers down. Lets see how much they cost and how much regen u need to sustain them. Ill wait.
Are you saying just literally spamming shields over and over back and forth? Or actually playing the damn game where you can line of sight, alleviate pressure though stuns it dealing dmg, heavy attack, get engine guardian.
Engine guardian procs, giving you 2.4k per second,
Lich procs giving you, let's say, 3.5k total regen (easily achieved). That's 1.7k per second. You're already covering 1 shield per second easily with that 4.1k per second regen which is at least 20 seconds long.
BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE!! Elemental drain for 300 mag per second
Resto heavy takes 2 seconds, gives 4.5k magicka back.
So with EG, lich +regular sustain, elemental drain, and a heavy attack. You've gained 4.8k + 300 + 4.5k= 9.6k magicka in 2 seconds. That doesn't include harness.
There's a lot more to sustain than math @pieratsos. You're toxic self knows that I'm sure. Plus if you're in a situation where shield stacking is literally the only thing you can do, shield stacking isn't your solution.
So let me get this straight. Now sorcs in a full sustain setup shouldnt be able to sustain? I mean you do realise that if you do everything u described then u do it because its not actually easy to sustain them right ? Thats the whole point of doing all that in the first place.
P.S. Fights last longer than 20 seconds.
You asked for numbers to show how you can sustain field stacking without harness. I showed you, don't try to turn it around and put words in my mouth. I said nothing about removing the capabilities to regen or shield stack. I said nothing about it being necessary to run these sets. All i did was give you numbers.
That's also hardly a pure regen build. With those 2 sets you can go full spell dmg, mage or apprentice, tri food and an offensive set very easily while adding in 2pc willpower, masters, rtc.
Also, to proc lich, you would have been fighting already, most likely for a while if you've got EG on. That setup is hardly a pure sustain at up, you know that.
0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭A single shield can be taken down in one GCD, and 20K of squishy crittable light armor Sorc health in another one GCD.
So of course you want stacking gone. You want to two-shot Sorcs. I’m going to say ‘no’.Edited by Minalan on June 3, 2018 8:57PM6 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Imo, shield stacking was almost always a lose slower proposal.
The best defense is offense. Too many builds have so much offensive output that going defensive is just gonna get you killed unless you can apply some counter pressure.
I almost always run 1 shield per bar and usually just recast when necessary.
I also, have become entirely dedicated to BGs which are noCP which would have a direct effect on shield strength3 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Brutusmax1mus
Yes i asked for numbers and you basically proved my entire point. Hardened and harness alone not including healing ward, cost around 7k. To sustain just those 2 it means that u need around 2.3k effective regen (that is always up and not just for 20 seconds) assuming you cast no other ability and assuming they last the full 6 seconds meaning u are taking minimum dmg. That by itself is an impossible scenario and u already need sustain sets even for that impossible scenario. So how on gods green earth is that considered "easily sustainable".
How long u were fighting before lich or eg proc is completely irrelevant. The point is that you cant use the numbers of fully buffed effective regen to make ur point. Its not like dmg when u time ur burst when u are fully buffed. Sustain and shields doesnt work like that. You need to constantly keep them up, thats the entire point. Thats why the EG, lich, regular sustain, drain and heavy attack situation makes no sense. And even if you took that scenario as an example then its by definition not easily sustainable. If you are just shieldstacking and heavy attacking then u are literally not doing any dmg. So yeah, i guess its easily sustainable if ur goal is to bore people to death and hope that they dont have enough dmg to take ur shields down fast enough.
And yeah indeed you can go with full spell dmg, mage/apprentice, tri food and offensive set and sustain easily. Thats why the last time sorcs did anything remotely close to that was homestead. Its not like the sets that sorcs mainly use for the past year are shackle, amber, lich, riposte. Most of them running also with withcmother and/or regen/cost reduction glyphs and/or atronach.
It seems like you are stuck in 2015-2016.Edited by pieratsos on June 3, 2018 6:43PM2 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Brutusmax1mus
Yes i asked for numbers and you basically proved my entire point. Hardened and harness alone not including healing ward, cost around 7k. To sustain just those 2 it means that u need around 2.3k effective regen (that is always up and not just for 20 seconds) assuming you cast no other ability and assuming they last the full 6 seconds meaning u are taking minimum dmg. That by itself is an impossible scenario and u already need sustain sets even for that impossible scenario. So how on gods green earth is that considered "easily sustainable".
How long u were fighting before lich or eg proc is completely irrelevant. The point is that you cant use the numbers of fully buffed effective regen to make ur point. Its not like dmg when u time ur burst when u are fully buffed. Sustain and shields doesnt work like that. You need to constantly keep them up, thats the entire point. Thats why the EG, lich, regular sustain, drain and heavy attack situation makes no sense. And even if you took that scenario as an example then its by definition not easily sustainable. If you are just shieldstacking and heavy attacking then u are literally not doing any dmg. So yeah, i guess its easily sustainable if ur goal is to bore people to death and hope that they dont have enough dmg to take ur shields down fast enough.
And yeah indeed you can go with full spell dmg, mage/apprentice, tri food and offensive set and sustain easily. Thats why the last time sorcs did anything remotely close to that was homestead. Its not like the sets that sorcs mainly use for the past year are shackle, amber, lich, riposte. Most of them running also with withcmother and/or regen/cost reduction glyphs and/or atronach.
It seems like you are stuck in 2015-2016.
@pieratsos You're assuming I'm saying i think there's a problem with stacking. I don't. All I'm saying is literally what i am saying, stop inferring things bc you're trying to argue. You asked for numbers, i showed you how you can sustain SPAMMING 2 shields easily. It's actually easier than that bc never are you only going back and fourth between shields for a freaking minute. So you'l have your los, your counter pressure, your stuns, your heavies, etc. All which buys more time for sustaining shields.
I don't even know what your point is, you asked how you can sustain shields, i showed you an easy way, not even utilizing every thing or 2 5pc sets, and then you said it proved your point that it's unsustainable some how. Stop pretending like sorcs only spam shields and you'll be ableto see how easily sustainable they are.
@Waffennacht i don't play sorc in bgs.0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Brutusmax1mus I suggest it! It's a very good class for BGs.
My go tos are: magsorc, Stam sorc, mag or Stam Templar and MagDK
MagDK is waiting for Summerset on console.0 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »@Brutusmax1mus I suggest it! It's a very good class for BGs.
My go tos are: magsorc, Stam sorc, mag or Stam Templar and MagDK
MagDK is waiting for Summerset on console.
You going to run a dot build with sloads?
I'm going the stam dk or stam sorc route with masters weapons and skoria lol. Plan on prisoners or cowards and sloads back barred with snb for defile. I prefer stam in bgs.0 -
Ankael07✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Too many broken things in this game and shieldstack always hot topic. Everybody needs a sorc
If you provide another way to improve our defense please share with us. We really hate using shields all the time.
Make blood magic passive trigger with damage done and give Encase a DOTIf you want me to reply to your comment type @Ankael07 in it.0 -
Kikke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Stratforge wrote: »If you think sorc needs another nerf in the year of our lord 2018 you need a medical professional to check your brain function.
what he said.Cleared Trials:
- vAA HM - vHRC HM - vSO HM - vMoL HM - vHoF HM - vAS HM - vCR HM -
"The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step, and a lot of bitching."
-Someone said it, I guess.0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »@Brutusmax1mus I suggest it! It's a very good class for BGs.
My go tos are: magsorc, Stam sorc, mag or Stam Templar and MagDK
MagDK is waiting for Summerset on console.
You going to run a dot build with sloads?
I'm going the stam dk or stam sorc route with masters weapons and skoria lol. Plan on prisoners or cowards and sloads back barred with snb for defile. I prefer stam in bgs.
Not a dot build at all actually lol.
The plan - frost reach, empowering changes, petrify, lash. At some point in there Cal should proc
Depending on tool tip lash may become imbue for reach/petrify, imbue/empower chain LA. I mean all the pieces are there.
Cal, Zaan, Sload.... maybe Sload.... Definitely gonna try it, but desert rose looks pretty good too for such a build.
I'm also enjoying Stam, I like crit rush, into cleave, swap into rending (cuz I'm a storc) runecage into DB or spin2win
I was lazy and wanted to play with my Dwemer so he's slimecraw, automaton, and sword dancer.b 3.6k wpn dmg unbuffed in BGs0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭oxygen_thief wrote: »Too much stupid comments here.
There is problems with shieldstacking. Listen ur Aed.
First of all :
- Harness magica giving more magicka than it cost is brokenly OP.
In openworld, a lot of sorcs get carried by harness because there is always magicka abilities feeding it. (Even on stamina you can feed harness with shadow Image or volatile armor). Hwo think a spammable defense that give you more regen than it cost is a good idea ? No one if you have at least a half brain.
this ability is available to all classes. you can use it on your own nightblade or dk char if it is so powerful. if you want to kill a sorc you should drain his stamina with constant cc.
Spread the news.
I still owe the person who came up with the idea you could drain a competent sorc out of stam a beer.
But yeah you can die trying.
For everything else i agree with aedaryl.Edited by Derra on June 3, 2018 8:24PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Someone needs to play a magicka sorc for a while before coming here to voice their opinion. Guarantee you it’s not as great as you think.
I have sorcerer toon and i have played it 3 or more years. It is insanely easy to shield stack and tank like damage in full dps or in sustain light armor set. Sorc own shield comes from max magia what makes it insanely huge. You can even have the 10 seconds version too. With 3 stacked shields you are just way too tanky as dps. You have mobility too and even automatic 1 min cc against players who attack you. Then you have roots and mines too deff. I have fighted against sload set for days now and it is not even op against my permashields sorc. It is just balanced and i have to some sort of skill, other than stack shields.
Do you even know how much do those 3 easily sustainable stacked shields cost? Cause it really doesnt seem like you do.
Less than it costs to break them.3 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »@Brutusmax1mus
Yes i asked for numbers and you basically proved my entire point. Hardened and harness alone not including healing ward, cost around 7k. To sustain just those 2 it means that u need around 2.3k effective regen (that is always up and not just for 20 seconds) assuming you cast no other ability and assuming they last the full 6 seconds meaning u are taking minimum dmg. That by itself is an impossible scenario and u already need sustain sets even for that impossible scenario. So how on gods green earth is that considered "easily sustainable".
How long u were fighting before lich or eg proc is completely irrelevant. The point is that you cant use the numbers of fully buffed effective regen to make ur point. Its not like dmg when u time ur burst when u are fully buffed. Sustain and shields doesnt work like that. You need to constantly keep them up, thats the entire point. Thats why the EG, lich, regular sustain, drain and heavy attack situation makes no sense. And even if you took that scenario as an example then its by definition not easily sustainable. If you are just shieldstacking and heavy attacking then u are literally not doing any dmg. So yeah, i guess its easily sustainable if ur goal is to bore people to death and hope that they dont have enough dmg to take ur shields down fast enough.
And yeah indeed you can go with full spell dmg, mage/apprentice, tri food and offensive set and sustain easily. Thats why the last time sorcs did anything remotely close to that was homestead. Its not like the sets that sorcs mainly use for the past year are shackle, amber, lich, riposte. Most of them running also with withcmother and/or regen/cost reduction glyphs and/or atronach.
It seems like you are stuck in 2015-2016.
@pieratsos You're assuming I'm saying i think there's a problem with stacking. I don't. All I'm saying is literally what i am saying, stop inferring things bc you're trying to argue. You asked for numbers, i showed you how you can sustain SPAMMING 2 shields easily. It's actually easier than that bc never are you only going back and fourth between shields for a freaking minute. So you'l have your los, your counter pressure, your stuns, your heavies, etc. All which buys more time for sustaining shields.
I don't even know what your point is, you asked how you can sustain shields, i showed you an easy way, not even utilizing every thing or 2 5pc sets, and then you said it proved your point that it's unsustainable some how. Stop pretending like sorcs only spam shields and you'll be ableto see how easily sustainable they are.
@Waffennacht i don't play sorc in bgs.
Im not assuming anything. Im talking about ur post and whether they are sustainable easy. You did not showed me numbers that proved that. You just created a scenario in which you get a huge influx of resources from lich and EG proc, heavy attack and drain to justify how u can sustain ur shields. You didnt prove anything with that cause that scenario lasts only for a few seconds. You cant just simply ignore the cooldown and/or the RNG component of the sets. Stick to realistic scenarios, not fictional scenarios that suit ur argument.
You are right. Sorcs dont just spam shields. They also have to use a bunch of different costly skills like streak which will push ur need for regen a lot higher. And yet you are here arguing that you can sustain easily with a dmg set, full dmg glyphs mundus and food.
You are the one keep trying to change the subject just for the sake of arguing. The point was whether they are easily sustainable against non magicka builds aka no harness regen. Not how sorcs play in general. And to justify that you said that you can LOS so you dont have to keep them up? Wut? Thats like saying you can easily permablock and the argument to prove that is to use mist form and LOS so u can drop block and get back stamina. I hope you understand how dumb it sounds.
Speaking about LOS and how sorcs play tho, you are right about one thing. Of course sorcs use LOS and also dodge roll a lot. Do you know one of the reasons they do that besides the obvious of not taking dmg? Cause their shields are not that easily sustainable when u actually have to use other skills too and when u start taking dmg from people with half a brain. Aka, realistic scenarios.
It seems like you have a very weird definition of what easily sustainable actually means.
Edited by pieratsos on June 3, 2018 9:49PM1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Someone needs to play a magicka sorc for a while before coming here to voice their opinion. Guarantee you it’s not as great as you think.
I have sorcerer toon and i have played it 3 or more years. It is insanely easy to shield stack and tank like damage in full dps or in sustain light armor set. Sorc own shield comes from max magia what makes it insanely huge. You can even have the 10 seconds version too. With 3 stacked shields you are just way too tanky as dps. You have mobility too and even automatic 1 min cc against players who attack you. Then you have roots and mines too deff. I have fighted against sload set for days now and it is not even op against my permashields sorc. It is just balanced and i have to some sort of skill, other than stack shields.
Do you even know how much do those 3 easily sustainable stacked shields cost? Cause it really doesnt seem like you do.
Less than it costs to break them.
100% off topic tho.
P.S. Yes, im sure ur snipe into bombard rotation costs more than 10k stamina.Edited by pieratsos on June 3, 2018 9:31PM1 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sure. Get rid of it. Give Sorcs a reliable defense that scales better in return.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Someone needs to play a magicka sorc for a while before coming here to voice their opinion. Guarantee you it’s not as great as you think.
I have sorcerer toon and i have played it 3 or more years. It is insanely easy to shield stack and tank like damage in full dps or in sustain light armor set. Sorc own shield comes from max magia what makes it insanely huge. You can even have the 10 seconds version too. With 3 stacked shields you are just way too tanky as dps. You have mobility too and even automatic 1 min cc against players who attack you. Then you have roots and mines too deff. I have fighted against sload set for days now and it is not even op against my permashields sorc. It is just balanced and i have to some sort of skill, other than stack shields.
Do you even know how much do those 3 easily sustainable stacked shields cost? Cause it really doesnt seem like you do.
Less than it costs to break them.
100% off topic tho.
P.S. Yes, im sure ur snipe into bombard rotation costs more than 10k stamina.
The 4448 stamina I spend to cast Snipe+Bombard* (with Marksman+Hawk's Eye to reduce costs) gets rid of 10,1k out of 22,8k (44.29% of shields) Hardened+Harness shield stack** that costs 6886 magicka to cast.
Or 13,7k out of 22,8k with Asylum Bow debuff accounted for (60.08% of shields).
*Fully buffed, including 5x Hawk Eye stacks
**5/1/1 light armor setup with 50k magicka & 28 points in Bastion.
In other words, you deal 2,2 dmg for each point of stamina spent (or 3 dmg with Asylum debuff), while a sorc shields for 3,3 dmg for each point of magicka spent.
And that's with a ridiculously high dmg, low sustain build. For builds with more of a sustain focus the difference is much more significantEdited by DDuke on June 3, 2018 10:19PM1 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »@Brutusmax1mus
Yes i asked for numbers and you basically proved my entire point. Hardened and harness alone not including healing ward, cost around 7k. To sustain just those 2 it means that u need around 2.3k effective regen (that is always up and not just for 20 seconds) assuming you cast no other ability and assuming they last the full 6 seconds meaning u are taking minimum dmg. That by itself is an impossible scenario and u already need sustain sets even for that impossible scenario. So how on gods green earth is that considered "easily sustainable".
How long u were fighting before lich or eg proc is completely irrelevant. The point is that you cant use the numbers of fully buffed effective regen to make ur point. Its not like dmg when u time ur burst when u are fully buffed. Sustain and shields doesnt work like that. You need to constantly keep them up, thats the entire point. Thats why the EG, lich, regular sustain, drain and heavy attack situation makes no sense. And even if you took that scenario as an example then its by definition not easily sustainable. If you are just shieldstacking and heavy attacking then u are literally not doing any dmg. So yeah, i guess its easily sustainable if ur goal is to bore people to death and hope that they dont have enough dmg to take ur shields down fast enough.
And yeah indeed you can go with full spell dmg, mage/apprentice, tri food and offensive set and sustain easily. Thats why the last time sorcs did anything remotely close to that was homestead. Its not like the sets that sorcs mainly use for the past year are shackle, amber, lich, riposte. Most of them running also with withcmother and/or regen/cost reduction glyphs and/or atronach.
It seems like you are stuck in 2015-2016.
@pieratsos You're assuming I'm saying i think there's a problem with stacking. I don't. All I'm saying is literally what i am saying, stop inferring things bc you're trying to argue. You asked for numbers, i showed you how you can sustain SPAMMING 2 shields easily. It's actually easier than that bc never are you only going back and fourth between shields for a freaking minute. So you'l have your los, your counter pressure, your stuns, your heavies, etc. All which buys more time for sustaining shields.
I don't even know what your point is, you asked how you can sustain shields, i showed you an easy way, not even utilizing every thing or 2 5pc sets, and then you said it proved your point that it's unsustainable some how. Stop pretending like sorcs only spam shields and you'll be ableto see how easily sustainable they are.
@Waffennacht i don't play sorc in bgs.
Im not assuming anything. Im talking about ur post and whether they are sustainable easy. You did not showed me numbers that proved that. You just created a scenario in which you get a huge influx of resources from lich and EG proc, heavy attack and drain to justify how u can sustain ur shields. You didnt prove anything with that cause that scenario lasts only for a few seconds. You cant just simply ignore the cooldown and/or the RNG component of the sets. Stick to realistic scenarios, not fictional scenarios that suit ur argument.
You are right. Sorcs dont just spam shields. They also have to use a bunch of different costly skills like streak which will push ur need for regen a lot higher. And yet you are here arguing that you can sustain easily with a dmg set, full dmg glyphs mundus and food.
You are the one keep trying to change the subject just for the sake of arguing. The point was whether they are easily sustainable against non magicka builds aka no harness regen. Not how sorcs play in general. And to justify that you said that you can LOS so you dont have to keep them up? Wut? Thats like saying you can easily permablock and the argument to prove that is to use mist form and LOS so u can drop block and get back stamina. I hope you understand how dumb it sounds.
Speaking about LOS and how sorcs play tho, you are right about one thing. Of course sorcs use LOS and also dodge roll a lot. Do you know one of the reasons they do that besides the obvious of not taking dmg? Cause their shields are not that easily sustainable when u actually have to use other skills too and when u start taking dmg from people with half a brain. Aka, realistic scenarios.
It seems like you have a very weird definition of what easily sustainable actually means.
You literally asked how to sustain spamming shields without harness. Plus, who in the world only spams shields and only shields for a a fight? You're stupid "proove it" statement was a moronic way to think of how sorcs stack shields.
They are very easy to sustain vs non magicka builds in a realistic scenario. Especially 1v1 and 1v2.0 -
Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭UppGRAYxDD wrote: »
Nerf sorc threads...providing entertainment since 2014...
Thanks I'll save that. Now we need a Nerf NB thread.SubtleHate wrote: »Vigor must go
See what's you are doing ?
Isn't Vigor already practically non-existent thanks to sload? xDEdited by Nyladreas on June 4, 2018 1:49AM0 -
IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Here we go again. Nevermind Shieldbreaker and Shattering Blow and in general high damage output in the current game. Especially Stamina damage is very high compared to few niche Magicka combo that can be countered fairly well. Shields drain so much. Even with Harness, your other skills drain you so quick and fast. And Harness do not exactly cancel out the cost but it does make the cost cheaper at the end.Edited by IZZEFlameLash on June 4, 2018 6:33AMImperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Someone needs to play a magicka sorc for a while before coming here to voice their opinion. Guarantee you it’s not as great as you think.
I have sorcerer toon and i have played it 3 or more years. It is insanely easy to shield stack and tank like damage in full dps or in sustain light armor set. Sorc own shield comes from max magia what makes it insanely huge. You can even have the 10 seconds version too. With 3 stacked shields you are just way too tanky as dps. You have mobility too and even automatic 1 min cc against players who attack you. Then you have roots and mines too deff. I have fighted against sload set for days now and it is not even op against my permashields sorc. It is just balanced and i have to some sort of skill, other than stack shields.
Do you even know how much do those 3 easily sustainable stacked shields cost? Cause it really doesnt seem like you do.
Less than it costs to break them.
100% off topic tho.
P.S. Yes, im sure ur snipe into bombard rotation costs more than 10k stamina.
The 4448 stamina I spend to cast Snipe+Bombard* (with Marksman+Hawk's Eye to reduce costs) gets rid of 10,1k out of 22,8k (44.29% of shields) Hardened+Harness shield stack** that costs 6886 magicka to cast.
Or 13,7k out of 22,8k with Asylum Bow debuff accounted for (60.08% of shields).
*Fully buffed, including 5x Hawk Eye stacks
**5/1/1 light armor setup with 50k magicka & 28 points in Bastion.
In other words, you deal 2,2 dmg for each point of stamina spent (or 3 dmg with Asylum debuff), while a sorc shields for 3,3 dmg for each point of magicka spent.
And that's with a ridiculously high dmg, low sustain build. For builds with more of a sustain focus the difference is much more significant
So with asylum is almost the same assuming the sorc has 50k Magicka and shields haven't received any dmg prior to ur burst. Not sure what ur problem is.
As far as the build being pure dmg etc it doesn't really matter. If u are going to look at it in this way then ur build also relies on stealth. Aka u are opening on them before they even put their shields up.0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »@Brutusmax1mus
Yes i asked for numbers and you basically proved my entire point. Hardened and harness alone not including healing ward, cost around 7k. To sustain just those 2 it means that u need around 2.3k effective regen (that is always up and not just for 20 seconds) assuming you cast no other ability and assuming they last the full 6 seconds meaning u are taking minimum dmg. That by itself is an impossible scenario and u already need sustain sets even for that impossible scenario. So how on gods green earth is that considered "easily sustainable".
How long u were fighting before lich or eg proc is completely irrelevant. The point is that you cant use the numbers of fully buffed effective regen to make ur point. Its not like dmg when u time ur burst when u are fully buffed. Sustain and shields doesnt work like that. You need to constantly keep them up, thats the entire point. Thats why the EG, lich, regular sustain, drain and heavy attack situation makes no sense. And even if you took that scenario as an example then its by definition not easily sustainable. If you are just shieldstacking and heavy attacking then u are literally not doing any dmg. So yeah, i guess its easily sustainable if ur goal is to bore people to death and hope that they dont have enough dmg to take ur shields down fast enough.
And yeah indeed you can go with full spell dmg, mage/apprentice, tri food and offensive set and sustain easily. Thats why the last time sorcs did anything remotely close to that was homestead. Its not like the sets that sorcs mainly use for the past year are shackle, amber, lich, riposte. Most of them running also with withcmother and/or regen/cost reduction glyphs and/or atronach.
It seems like you are stuck in 2015-2016.
@pieratsos You're assuming I'm saying i think there's a problem with stacking. I don't. All I'm saying is literally what i am saying, stop inferring things bc you're trying to argue. You asked for numbers, i showed you how you can sustain SPAMMING 2 shields easily. It's actually easier than that bc never are you only going back and fourth between shields for a freaking minute. So you'l have your los, your counter pressure, your stuns, your heavies, etc. All which buys more time for sustaining shields.
I don't even know what your point is, you asked how you can sustain shields, i showed you an easy way, not even utilizing every thing or 2 5pc sets, and then you said it proved your point that it's unsustainable some how. Stop pretending like sorcs only spam shields and you'll be ableto see how easily sustainable they are.
@Waffennacht i don't play sorc in bgs.
Im not assuming anything. Im talking about ur post and whether they are sustainable easy. You did not showed me numbers that proved that. You just created a scenario in which you get a huge influx of resources from lich and EG proc, heavy attack and drain to justify how u can sustain ur shields. You didnt prove anything with that cause that scenario lasts only for a few seconds. You cant just simply ignore the cooldown and/or the RNG component of the sets. Stick to realistic scenarios, not fictional scenarios that suit ur argument.
You are right. Sorcs dont just spam shields. They also have to use a bunch of different costly skills like streak which will push ur need for regen a lot higher. And yet you are here arguing that you can sustain easily with a dmg set, full dmg glyphs mundus and food.
You are the one keep trying to change the subject just for the sake of arguing. The point was whether they are easily sustainable against non magicka builds aka no harness regen. Not how sorcs play in general. And to justify that you said that you can LOS so you dont have to keep them up? Wut? Thats like saying you can easily permablock and the argument to prove that is to use mist form and LOS so u can drop block and get back stamina. I hope you understand how dumb it sounds.
Speaking about LOS and how sorcs play tho, you are right about one thing. Of course sorcs use LOS and also dodge roll a lot. Do you know one of the reasons they do that besides the obvious of not taking dmg? Cause their shields are not that easily sustainable when u actually have to use other skills too and when u start taking dmg from people with half a brain. Aka, realistic scenarios.
It seems like you have a very weird definition of what easily sustainable actually means.
You literally asked how to sustain spamming shields without harness. Plus, who in the world only spams shields and only shields for a a fight? You're stupid "proove it" statement was a moronic way to think of how sorcs stack shields.
They are very easy to sustain vs non magicka builds in a realistic scenario. Especially 1v1 and 1v2.
Yes I literally asked how to easily sustain them. Key word is easily. And ur response to that is to Los so u don't have to keep them up constantly completely ignoring the fact that one of the reasons of using Los is because they are not actually easily sustainable.
Something that becomes instantly clear if u just put the numbers down and see how much regen u need to keep them up even in the most optimal scenario which is why I told u to do that in the first place. The only time it becomes easy is when getting hit by Magicka abilities because of harness. At that point it is easily sustainable. No need to Los. U can just pretty much infinitely shieldstack.
It's the same as saying you can easily permaroll. No it's simply not. You can sustain overall in the fight with very high regen and using Los etc to reset its cost but you do things like that because it's not actually easy to permaroll. Same with the permablocking example.
P. S. If you have to Los in a 1v1 fight then there is nothing easy about the fight.0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It’s funny how everyone just looks at this from a CP perspective. If shield stacking is a perceived problem (which I don’t think it is) then maybe adjust the CP system. Because there’s no 30k shield stack in noCP, and foremost not one that you could sustain “easily”.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.1 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭It’s funny how everyone just looks at this from a CP perspective. If shield stacking is a perceived problem (which I don’t think it is) then maybe adjust the CP system. Because there’s no 30k shield stack in noCP, and foremost not one that you could sustain “easily”.
30k shields aren't really a thing in CP either unless its a high magicka build with all 3 shields stacked and low health (to make the healing ward big enough)..
Few people run that, and nobody stacks it unless under pressure - which kind of means that by the time you cast the 3rd shield, the first and much of the second have already been stripped... so you still don't get 30k..
A common shield size in CP is around 12-13k hardened, 8-9k harness. When not pressured, I only use hardened, so this magical perma-30k shield-stack is more like 13k... When under heavy pressure, I spam hardened - because its the biggest.. Still no shield-stack.. When pressure is a bit lighter, I stack both - because to land an attack combo (which takes time with the sorc delayed burst), you need your shields to last 4 seconds. It often isn't enough.
To remove stacking, the whole timed, delayed burst aspect will need to be re-designed, because you'd never be able to do it. sorc combat would be shield/pulse/shield/pulse/shield/pulse/shield/pulse.... And we think sorc damage is poor now!
Edited by Biro123 on June 4, 2018 8:14AMMinalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.3 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Someone needs to play a magicka sorc for a while before coming here to voice their opinion. Guarantee you it’s not as great as you think.
I have sorcerer toon and i have played it 3 or more years. It is insanely easy to shield stack and tank like damage in full dps or in sustain light armor set. Sorc own shield comes from max magia what makes it insanely huge. You can even have the 10 seconds version too. With 3 stacked shields you are just way too tanky as dps. You have mobility too and even automatic 1 min cc against players who attack you. Then you have roots and mines too deff. I have fighted against sload set for days now and it is not even op against my permashields sorc. It is just balanced and i have to some sort of skill, other than stack shields.
That’s funny because sloads goes through shields. So perms shields would have nothing to do with it. Also no ones making you use three shields. Personally I only use hardened ward and healing ward.0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Someone needs to play a magicka sorc for a while before coming here to voice their opinion. Guarantee you it’s not as great as you think.
I have sorcerer toon and i have played it 3 or more years. It is insanely easy to shield stack and tank like damage in full dps or in sustain light armor set. Sorc own shield comes from max magia what makes it insanely huge. You can even have the 10 seconds version too. With 3 stacked shields you are just way too tanky as dps. You have mobility too and even automatic 1 min cc against players who attack you. Then you have roots and mines too deff. I have fighted against sload set for days now and it is not even op against my permashields sorc. It is just balanced and i have to some sort of skill, other than stack shields.
That’s funny because sloads goes through shields. So perms shields would have nothing to do with it. Also no ones making you use three shields. Personally I only use hardened ward and healing ward.
So do I, even in noCP, but you feel it of course. Personally I’d love to have a different means of defense that’s more reliable. But I guess there will always be something about Sorcs people will complain over.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lets stop pretending that in any fight, you’re dealing with a 30K stack every GCD. That’s not very smart or ingenuous, though that’s typical of the forum warriors here.
A shield can only cast a 10-12K or so defense PER GCD, which is damage that just about anyone can do with woven attacks and glyph/poison.
When a Sorc starts refreshing expired shields, you can actively and effectively prevent the stack by... just hitting him. Then the situation isn’t much different than chasing an lol dodge roller. Shoot miss! Etc..
If you really hate shield users, grab sloads. Everyone else is, and complaining about shield stacking in a sload meta is just extra special stupid on top of stupid.2
