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Shield stacking must go
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THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Just one shield at the time.
They only last 6 seconds. At best you get maybe 5 seconds of “double shields” and if you try to keep 2 up constantly you’re gonna run out of magic with quickness.
Back in the day we used to have to deal with 20 second shield stackers. That was craziness.Edited by THEDKEXPERIENCE on June 3, 2018 12:01PM20 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Count to 4, and cc. It's not that hard.
Sounds like you've never faught a good sorc. That does work wonders against scrubs tho, you're right.THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Just one shield at the time.
They only last 6 seconds. At best you get maybe 5 seconds of “double shields” and if you try to keep 2 up constantly you’re gonna run out of magic with quickness.
Back in the day we used to have to deal with 20 second shield stackers. That was craziness.
Lich and eg are enough to almost guarantee this never happening. Then add in the exchanges or heavy weaves and you have endless sustain. Oh yes, that 2nd shield, harness magicka, does guarantee 0 sustain issues vs magicka.
Sorcs have no problem sustaining 2 or 3 shields.Edited by Brutusmax1mus on June 3, 2018 12:16PM13 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Count to 4, and cc. It's not that hard.
Sounds like you've never faught a good sorc. That does work wonders against scrubs tho, you're right.THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Just one shield at the time.
They only last 6 seconds. At best you get maybe 5 seconds of “double shields” and if you try to keep 2 up constantly you’re gonna run out of magic with quickness.
Back in the day we used to have to deal with 20 second shield stackers. That was craziness.
Lich and eg are enough to almost guarantee this never happening. Then add in the exchanges or heavy weaves and you have endless sustain. Oh yes, that 2nd shield, harness magicka, does guarantee 0 sustain issues vs magicka.
Sorcs have no problem sustaining 2 or 3 shields.
Sure, if you are fighting a magicka player because of harness which isnt even a sorc ability.
If you are fighting a stamina player and you are shieldstacking every few seconds you'd be surprised how fast you run dry.5 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Someone needs to play a magicka sorc for a while before coming here to voice their opinion. Guarantee you it’s not as great as you think.20 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭Too much stupid comments here.
There is problems with shieldstacking. Listen ur Aed.
First of all :
- Harness magica giving more magicka than it cost is brokenly OP.
In openworld, a lot of sorcs get carried by harness because there is always magicka abilities feeding it. (Even on stamina you can feed harness with shadow Image or volatile armor). Hwo think a spammable defense that give you more regen than it cost is a good idea ? No one if you have at least a half brain.
The second problem is the stack of hardened ward + harness magicka + healing ward. It's far too much tankiness.
Make a major and minor system for shields, and remove the stack of harness + hardened.
Shieldstacking is too powerfull, but relying on Dampen/Harness or Hardened alone is far too weak in 1vX situations.
Make all class shields + Annulment being major shield, and all other shields minor shield
Then buff major shield mitigation based on the number of people damaging the skill.
No more nobrain sustain, and no more insane tankiness in 1v1, but more survivability in 1vX.5 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Count to 4, and cc. It's not that hard.
Sounds like you've never faught a good sorc. That does work wonders against scrubs tho, you're right.THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Just one shield at the time.
They only last 6 seconds. At best you get maybe 5 seconds of “double shields” and if you try to keep 2 up constantly you’re gonna run out of magic with quickness.
Back in the day we used to have to deal with 20 second shield stackers. That was craziness.
Lich and eg are enough to almost guarantee this never happening. Then add in the exchanges or heavy weaves and you have endless sustain. Oh yes, that 2nd shield, harness magicka, does guarantee 0 sustain issues vs magicka.
Sorcs have no problem sustaining 2 or 3 shields.
Sure, if you are fighting a magicka player because of harness which isnt even a sorc ability.
If you are fighting a stamina player and you are shieldstacking every few seconds you'd be surprised how fast you run dry.
You know i assumed sorc was the topic, but it just says shield stacking.
@Stibbons are you taking about non sorcs?0 -
UppGRAYxDD✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Nerf sorc threads...providing entertainment since 2014..."Stendarr's mercy be upon you, for the vigil has none to spare."11 -
oxygen_thief✭✭✭✭✭
✭Too much stupid comments here.
There is problems with shieldstacking. Listen ur Aed.
First of all :
- Harness magica giving more magicka than it cost is brokenly OP.
In openworld, a lot of sorcs get carried by harness because there is always magicka abilities feeding it. (Even on stamina you can feed harness with shadow Image or volatile armor). Hwo think a spammable defense that give you more regen than it cost is a good idea ? No one if you have at least a half brain.
this ability is available to all classes. you can use it on your own nightblade or dk char if it is so powerful. if you want to kill a sorc you should drain his stamina with constant cc.
4 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭oxygen_thief wrote: »Too much stupid comments here.
There is problems with shieldstacking. Listen ur Aed.
First of all :
- Harness magica giving more magicka than it cost is brokenly OP.
In openworld, a lot of sorcs get carried by harness because there is always magicka abilities feeding it. (Even on stamina you can feed harness with shadow Image or volatile armor). Hwo think a spammable defense that give you more regen than it cost is a good idea ? No one if you have at least a half brain.
this ability is available to all classes. you can use it on your own nightblade or dk char if it is so powerful. if you want to kill a sorc you should drain his stamina with constant cc.
There is Dk and NB using harness for better sustain managment.
There is no reason to defend a defensive spammable skill that give u more magicka than it cost.0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Count to 4, and cc. It's not that hard.
Sounds like you've never faught a good sorc. That does work wonders against scrubs tho, you're right.THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Just one shield at the time.
They only last 6 seconds. At best you get maybe 5 seconds of “double shields” and if you try to keep 2 up constantly you’re gonna run out of magic with quickness.
Back in the day we used to have to deal with 20 second shield stackers. That was craziness.
Lich and eg are enough to almost guarantee this never happening. Then add in the exchanges or heavy weaves and you have endless sustain. Oh yes, that 2nd shield, harness magicka, does guarantee 0 sustain issues vs magicka.
Sorcs have no problem sustaining 2 or 3 shields.
Sure, if you are fighting a magicka player because of harness which isnt even a sorc ability.
If you are fighting a stamina player and you are shieldstacking every few seconds you'd be surprised how fast you run dry.
You know i assumed sorc was the topic, but it just says shield stacking.
@Stibbons are you taking about non sorcs?
Yes sorc is the topic. Im just saying. Harness is not a sorc ability. Anyone can sustain shields against magicka builds because of harness.
But ur point about sorc easily sustaining shieldstacking is simply false cause again it requires ur opponent to be a magicka player and u using harness both of which are actually completely irrelevant with sorcs. Against a stamina player you'd be surprised how fast you run dry if you try to constantly shieldstack.
Edited by pieratsos on June 3, 2018 1:29PM1 -
CrazYDunm3r✭✭✭✭Shieldstacking should absolutely stay, they are key for the defense of certain classes. One shield at a time? What about sorcs who have this as their only defense because that is how their class is pretty much designed for? What about classes that are not sorc and want to play a mage-like character (like me) and need (multiple) shields? They do not last long anyway, but if you want 1 shield at a time (especially in this new meta), you are not only nerfing certain classes (again), but make certain playstyles impossible (not mine). I wonder what it is that makes you so afraid of shieldcasters? I can kill those shieldcasters, why wouldn't you be able to do it? There are numerous ways to do it: time your CC, use oblivion damage, exhaust their resources,... I mean this in a non offensive manner OP, but you sound like a "scrub" and I mean that by not being able/willing to adapt to certain classes and playstyles.
Edit: for example sorcs in no CP are having a hard time already as far I've seenEdited by CrazYDunm3r on June 3, 2018 1:34PMYouTube
Triggered Tryhards5 -
oxygen_thief✭✭✭✭✭
✭There is Dk and NB using harness for better sustain managment.
There is no reason to defend a defensive spammable skill that give u more magicka than it cost.
how do you think sorcs are fighting with each other? there is no such a problem as shield stacking. there are players who dont know how to kill a sorc.5 -
gepe87✭✭✭✭✭
✭Too many broken things in this game and shieldstack always hot topic. Everybody needs a sorc
If you provide another way to improve our defense please share with us. We really hate using shields all the time.Edited by gepe87 on June 3, 2018 2:33PMGepe, Dunmer MagSorc Pact Grand Overlord | Gaepe, Bosmer MagSorc Dominion General
If you see edits on my replies: typos. English isn't my main language3 -
Kova✭✭✭✭✭It's weird that in the time and steps it took to switch from your game after dying to the mean sorc/nb, opening your browser, going to the forums, and writing this post you didn't just look for the other threads about shieldstacking (There are alot).
The reason you didn't is, just like every player before you who started a nerf shields thread, you weren't looking for help, you were looking to blow off steam after not killing/being killed by a player.
See what similarities you share with the other players who also complain. You'll find that:
You're probably a burst stamina build
You probably don't main a magsorc/magnb
You're probably running a meta type build
You probably think that if it wasn't for those pesky shields you would dominate almost every sorc/nb you fight.
If this doesn't apply to you, then sorcs/nbs might just be a weak spot for you. There are several people killing top tier shield players with almost no effort. Ask them for help.
The only class that has a difficult time toe to toe with sorcs atm is magplar. Understandably so, since they're close up magicka dps.Edited by Kova on June 3, 2018 2:51PMEP Sorc: Aydinn
AD Stamplar: Verdant`Knight
DC Stamblade: Apple`Punch
EP Stam Sorc: Kós
AD DragonKnight: Transmigrant
EP NIghtblade: Aydinn6 -
Stibbons✭✭✭✭✭Someone needs to play a magicka sorc for a while before coming here to voice their opinion. Guarantee you it’s not as great as you think.
I have sorcerer toon and i have played it 3 or more years. It is insanely easy to shield stack and tank like damage in full dps or in sustain light armor set. Sorc own shield comes from max magia what makes it insanely huge. You can even have the 10 seconds version too. With 3 stacked shields you are just way too tanky as dps. You have mobility too and even automatic 1 min cc against players who attack you. Then you have roots and mines too deff. I have fighted against sload set for days now and it is not even op against my permashields sorc. It is just balanced and i have to some sort of skill, other than stack shields.
1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Someone needs to play a magicka sorc for a while before coming here to voice their opinion. Guarantee you it’s not as great as you think.
I have sorcerer toon and i have played it 3 or more years. It is insanely easy to shield stack and tank like damage in full dps or in sustain light armor set. Sorc own shield comes from max magia what makes it insanely huge. You can even have the 10 seconds version too. With 3 stacked shields you are just way too tanky as dps. You have mobility too and even automatic 1 min cc against players who attack you. Then you have roots and mines too deff. I have fighted against sload set for days now and it is not even op against my permashields sorc. It is just balanced and i have to some sort of skill, other than stack shields.
Do you even know how much do those 3 easily sustainable stacked shields cost? Cause it really doesnt seem like you do.3 -
Micah_Bayer✭✭✭✭✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Count to 4, and cc. It's not that hard.
Sounds like you've never faught a good sorc. That does work wonders against scrubs tho, you're right.THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Just one shield at the time.
They only last 6 seconds. At best you get maybe 5 seconds of “double shields” and if you try to keep 2 up constantly you’re gonna run out of magic with quickness.
Back in the day we used to have to deal with 20 second shield stackers. That was craziness.
Lich and eg are enough to almost guarantee this never happening. Then add in the exchanges or heavy weaves and you have endless sustain. Oh yes, that 2nd shield, harness magicka, does guarantee 0 sustain issues vs magicka.
Sorcs have no problem sustaining 2 or 3 shields.
If they have lich and eg they do no dmg . So what is problem?Edited by Micah_Bayer on June 3, 2018 2:54PM1 -
Tonturri✭✭✭✭✭It seems the issue is with harness and not actually with sorcs as a whole. I agree the morph should he overhauled, or at least changed so that it doesn't give an insane amount of sustain depending on who you're fighting.
Change it to be a flat regen while the shield is active - like 100 magicka/sec. Tweak regen as needed. Offers counterplay in the form or simply smashing through the shield. Maybe a burst of regen at the end when it expires to punish people for failing to mash through it.0 -
DHale✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shields have multiple counters.Sorcerna, proud beta sorc. RIP April 2014 to May 31 2016 DArk Brotherhood. Out of retirement for negates and encases. Sorcerna will be going back into retirement to be my main crafter Fall 2018. Because an 8 k shield is f ing useless. Died because of baddies on the forum. Too much qq too little pew pew. 16 AD 2 DC. 0 EP cause they bad, CP 2300 plus 18 level 50 toons. NA, PC, Grey Host#SORCLIVESMATTER actually they don’t or they wouldn’t keep getting nerfed constantly.1 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Count to 4, and cc. It's not that hard.
Sounds like you've never faught a good sorc. That does work wonders against scrubs tho, you're right.THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Just one shield at the time.
They only last 6 seconds. At best you get maybe 5 seconds of “double shields” and if you try to keep 2 up constantly you’re gonna run out of magic with quickness.
Back in the day we used to have to deal with 20 second shield stackers. That was craziness.
Lich and eg are enough to almost guarantee this never happening. Then add in the exchanges or heavy weaves and you have endless sustain. Oh yes, that 2nd shield, harness magicka, does guarantee 0 sustain issues vs magicka.
Sorcs have no problem sustaining 2 or 3 shields.
Sure, if you are fighting a magicka player because of harness which isnt even a sorc ability.
If you are fighting a stamina player and you are shieldstacking every few seconds you'd be surprised how fast you run dry.
You know i assumed sorc was the topic, but it just says shield stacking.
@Stibbons are you taking about non sorcs?
Yes sorc is the topic. Im just saying. Harness is not a sorc ability. Anyone can sustain shields against magicka builds because of harness.
But ur point about sorc easily sustaining shieldstacking is simply false cause again it requires ur opponent to be a magicka player and u using harness both of which are actually completely irrelevant with sorcs. Against a stamina player you'd be surprised how fast you run dry if you try to constantly shieldstack.
It doesn't require fighting a magicka class. The are plenty of tools that provide plenty of resources to stack shields.0 -
oxygen_thief✭✭✭✭✭
✭Someone needs to play a magicka sorc for a while before coming here to voice their opinion. Guarantee you it’s not as great as you think.
I have sorcerer toon and i have played it 3 or more years. It is insanely easy to shield stack and tank like damage in full dps or in sustain light armor set. Sorc own shield comes from max magia what makes it insanely huge. You can even have the 10 seconds version too. With 3 stacked shields you are just way too tanky as dps. You have mobility too and even automatic 1 min cc against players who attack you. Then you have roots and mines too deff. I have fighted against sload set for days now and it is not even op against my permashields sorc. It is just balanced and i have to some sort of skill, other than stack shields.
what do you mean by insane? whats your shield tooltip? i have about 6,5k on hw in bg. i dont think its even close to insane1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Count to 4, and cc. It's not that hard.
Sounds like you've never faught a good sorc. That does work wonders against scrubs tho, you're right.THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Just one shield at the time.
They only last 6 seconds. At best you get maybe 5 seconds of “double shields” and if you try to keep 2 up constantly you’re gonna run out of magic with quickness.
Back in the day we used to have to deal with 20 second shield stackers. That was craziness.
Lich and eg are enough to almost guarantee this never happening. Then add in the exchanges or heavy weaves and you have endless sustain. Oh yes, that 2nd shield, harness magicka, does guarantee 0 sustain issues vs magicka.
Sorcs have no problem sustaining 2 or 3 shields.
Sure, if you are fighting a magicka player because of harness which isnt even a sorc ability.
If you are fighting a stamina player and you are shieldstacking every few seconds you'd be surprised how fast you run dry.
You know i assumed sorc was the topic, but it just says shield stacking.
@Stibbons are you taking about non sorcs?
Yes sorc is the topic. Im just saying. Harness is not a sorc ability. Anyone can sustain shields against magicka builds because of harness.
But ur point about sorc easily sustaining shieldstacking is simply false cause again it requires ur opponent to be a magicka player and u using harness both of which are actually completely irrelevant with sorcs. Against a stamina player you'd be surprised how fast you run dry if you try to constantly shieldstack.
It doesn't require fighting a magicka class. The are plenty of tools that provide plenty of resources to stack shields.
It doesnt require fighting a magicka class? Ok, put the numbers down. Lets see how much they cost and how much regen u need to sustain them. Ill wait.1 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Harness is a funny one. Sounds op to many who don't use it, but if you build to rely on the sustain from it, you're dead as soon as you end up in a 1v1 Vs a stam toon. Happens a bit too often for people to build this way for long...
If instead, you build to be able to sustain in said 1v1, then the harness return doesn't benefit you.. and you're better off with dampen.Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.2 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Count to 4, and cc. It's not that hard.
Sounds like you've never faught a good sorc. That does work wonders against scrubs tho, you're right.THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Just one shield at the time.
They only last 6 seconds. At best you get maybe 5 seconds of “double shields” and if you try to keep 2 up constantly you’re gonna run out of magic with quickness.
Back in the day we used to have to deal with 20 second shield stackers. That was craziness.
Lich and eg are enough to almost guarantee this never happening. Then add in the exchanges or heavy weaves and you have endless sustain. Oh yes, that 2nd shield, harness magicka, does guarantee 0 sustain issues vs magicka.
Sorcs have no problem sustaining 2 or 3 shields.
Sure, if you are fighting a magicka player because of harness which isnt even a sorc ability.
If you are fighting a stamina player and you are shieldstacking every few seconds you'd be surprised how fast you run dry.
You know i assumed sorc was the topic, but it just says shield stacking.
@Stibbons are you taking about non sorcs?
Yes sorc is the topic. Im just saying. Harness is not a sorc ability. Anyone can sustain shields against magicka builds because of harness.
But ur point about sorc easily sustaining shieldstacking is simply false cause again it requires ur opponent to be a magicka player and u using harness both of which are actually completely irrelevant with sorcs. Against a stamina player you'd be surprised how fast you run dry if you try to constantly shieldstack.
It doesn't require fighting a magicka class. The are plenty of tools that provide plenty of resources to stack shields.
It doesnt require fighting a magicka class? Ok, put the numbers down. Lets see how much they cost and how much regen u need to sustain them. Ill wait.
Are you saying just literally spamming shields over and over back and forth? Or actually playing the damn game where you can line of sight, alleviate pressure though stuns it dealing dmg, heavy attack, get engine guardian.
Engine guardian procs, giving you 2.4k per second,
Lich procs giving you, let's say, 3.5k total regen (easily achieved). That's 1.7k per second. You're already covering 1 shield per second easily with that 4.1k per second regen which is at least 20 seconds long.
BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE!! Elemental drain for 300 mag per second
Resto heavy takes 2 seconds, gives 4.5k magicka back.
So with EG, lich +regular sustain, elemental drain, and a heavy attack. You've gained 4.8k + 300 + 4.5k= 9.6k magicka in 2 seconds. That doesn't include harness.
There's a lot more to sustain than math @pieratsos. You're toxic self knows that I'm sure. Plus if you're in a situation where shield stacking is literally the only thing you can do, shield stacking isn't your solution.0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Count to 4, and cc. It's not that hard.
Sounds like you've never faught a good sorc. That does work wonders against scrubs tho, you're right.THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Just one shield at the time.
They only last 6 seconds. At best you get maybe 5 seconds of “double shields” and if you try to keep 2 up constantly you’re gonna run out of magic with quickness.
Back in the day we used to have to deal with 20 second shield stackers. That was craziness.
Lich and eg are enough to almost guarantee this never happening. Then add in the exchanges or heavy weaves and you have endless sustain. Oh yes, that 2nd shield, harness magicka, does guarantee 0 sustain issues vs magicka.
Sorcs have no problem sustaining 2 or 3 shields.
Sure, if you are fighting a magicka player because of harness which isnt even a sorc ability.
If you are fighting a stamina player and you are shieldstacking every few seconds you'd be surprised how fast you run dry.
You know i assumed sorc was the topic, but it just says shield stacking.
@Stibbons are you taking about non sorcs?
Yes sorc is the topic. Im just saying. Harness is not a sorc ability. Anyone can sustain shields against magicka builds because of harness.
But ur point about sorc easily sustaining shieldstacking is simply false cause again it requires ur opponent to be a magicka player and u using harness both of which are actually completely irrelevant with sorcs. Against a stamina player you'd be surprised how fast you run dry if you try to constantly shieldstack.
It doesn't require fighting a magicka class. The are plenty of tools that provide plenty of resources to stack shields.
It doesnt require fighting a magicka class? Ok, put the numbers down. Lets see how much they cost and how much regen u need to sustain them. Ill wait.
Are you saying just literally spamming shields over and over back and forth? Or actually playing the damn game where you can line of sight, alleviate pressure though stuns it dealing dmg, heavy attack, get engine guardian.
Engine guardian procs, giving you 2.4k per second,
Lich procs giving you, let's say, 3.5k total regen (easily achieved). That's 1.7k per second. You're already covering 1 shield per second easily with that 4.1k per second regen which is at least 20 seconds long.
BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE!! Elemental drain for 300 mag per second
Resto heavy takes 2 seconds, gives 4.5k magicka back.
So with EG, lich +regular sustain, elemental drain, and a heavy attack. You've gained 4.8k + 300 + 4.5k= 9.6k magicka in 2 seconds. That doesn't include harness.
There's a lot more to sustain than math @pieratsos. You're toxic self knows that I'm sure. Plus if you're in a situation where shield stacking is literally the only thing you can do, shield stacking isn't your solution.
So let me get this straight. Now sorcs in a full sustain setup shouldnt be able to sustain? I mean you do realise that if you do everything u described then u do it because its not actually easy to sustain them right ? Thats the whole point of doing all that in the first place.
P.S. Fights last longer than 20 seconds.
Edited by pieratsos on June 3, 2018 5:34PM7 -
Stratforge✭✭✭✭If you think sorc needs another nerf in the year of our lord 2018 you need a medical professional to check your brain function.PC NA
Xbox One NA (retired)5
